Shownotes
Special Guest: Scott Martin
With special guest Scott Martin, we unpack the criticism and backlash faced by activists who disrupt and protest against climate change. In this case its Just Stop Oil, orange cornstarch and Stonehenge, but this conversation applies to all that disrupt the status quo.
The repetitive and disingenuous arguments used by politicians and media to discredit these actions just underscore the need for more revolutionary optics and diverse tactics. We also look at the criminalization of indigenous land and water defenders in Canada and around the world, and the lack of media coverage on these critical struggles.
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Transcripts
We all want to help one another. Human beings are like that. We want to live by each other's
Speaker:happiness, not by each other's misery. We don't want to hate and despise one another. In this
Speaker:world, there's room for everyone, and the good earth is rich and can provide for everyone.
Speaker:The way of life can be free and beautiful, but we have lost the way. Greed has poisoned men's
Speaker:souls, has barricaded the world with hate, has goose-stepped us into misery and bloodshed.
Speaker:We have developed speed, but we have shut ourselves in. Machinery that gives abundance has left
Speaker:us in want. Our knowledge has made us cynical, our cleverness hard and unkind. We think too
Speaker:much and feel too little. More than machinery, we need humanity. More than cleverness, we
Speaker:need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will
Speaker:be lost. Welcome to Rabble Rants. I'm Santiago Gelo Quintero, and alongside Jess McLean, we're
Speaker:going to unpack the stories that have us most riled up and challenge the narratives around
Speaker:them. Scott Martin is with us in the studio. He's going to introduce himself a little bit
Speaker:more fully than that, but he tweeted out this banger and obviously blueprints of disruption.
Speaker:We talk about this all the time. He says, can we stop with the just stop oil discourse for
Speaker:two seconds? Energy corps and collaborating governments are on track to eradicate human
Speaker:existence. I don't give a fuck. how nice Stonehenge is. Scott, you got more than 280 characters
Speaker:now to unpack that. Welcome to Rabble Brance. Thank you, and I will not be paying for a blue
Speaker:check mark anytime soon, so I will be limited to 280 characters. For those who don't know
Speaker:me, I'm an independent journalist based in Ontario. I run a newsletter critiquing news analysis
Speaker:and I just saw this briefly. I just went camping. This happened before it. And essentially for
Speaker:those who don't know, what happened was Just Stop Oil in the UK took orange corn flour,
Speaker:I believe it was, and then threw it on Stonehenge in protest of, it's what it is on the tape,
Speaker:Just Stop Oil. And it seems like I've, this is probably what a lot of people have been
Speaker:through, but it was... Just deja vu. Because if anyone has ever seen anything from Just
Speaker:Stop Oil before, it's typically kinda high profile stunts like this. I believe they, I can't remember
Speaker:what painting it was, but they would throw paint on a painting. And basically to- Gluing their
Speaker:hands to art. Yeah, putting their hands to art and all of this in service of focusing, like
Speaker:this is attention grabbing and it's directing it towards how climate change is destroying
Speaker:everything. And if you've seen one of these, you've seen it all. It's always, oh, how dare
Speaker:they, how disrespectful. They don't respect art. They're like, what does this do for the
Speaker:cause? It's literally the same bullet points every single time I see it. Frankly, like,
Speaker:I don't know if the right word is disgusted. I'm disgusted for sure, but I'm a little disappointed
Speaker:because every single time this comes up, it's like the people saying these things are just
Speaker:shouting into like a mirror because they've been debunked nonstop. First of all, don't
Speaker:care about art, well, not a lot of art's gonna survive if every single human and human civilization
Speaker:is dead. You know, they are not doing good for the cause, they should do better, well, what
Speaker:the fuck are you doing? You're not doing anything. And then just all this higher up stuff, like
Speaker:Keir Starmer from the Labour Party basically said that they should be punished to the full
Speaker:extent of the law. Keir Starmer, essentially the biggest weasel on- on the global's politics
Speaker:stage right now, knows how bad climate change is. So does Rishi Sunak, but you know, nobody
Speaker:likes him no matter what the circumstance. So every single person who pushes this line that
Speaker:is a politician or a pundit is fully aware that what they're saying is dishonest. And the fact
Speaker:that it seems to be this, this Sisyphean pushing of like, oh, well, this happens and we're going
Speaker:to have the same fucking conversation over and over again. And It's frustrating to see not
Speaker:only just because of this instance, but it happens literally anytime there's any dissent ever.
Speaker:It's the same talking points nonstop, way past the point of actual utility until it's like
Speaker:a thought-terminating cliche. So I think it's time a lot of people kind of point this out,
Speaker:you know, instead of like, oh, taking it seriously, like, oh, you know, if somebody says they don't
Speaker:care about humanity, like, well, this is what climate change is doing. I think it's a high
Speaker:time to say, you know what you're doing. This is not a convincing line of argument. Every
Speaker:Canadian knows what we had to go through last year with the forest fires. Climate change
Speaker:is here and we have to deal with it. To your point there that it's like all modes of dissent
Speaker:or disruption, it's evident even if you look at Just Stop Oil's feed. So they do a myriad
Speaker:of actions. Spray painting, banks, traffic disruptions. And when you see people's response to that,
Speaker:like cars are trying to drive them over, buses are right up behind on their ass while they're
Speaker:holding a banner and trying to just walk really slowly in front of traffic. People are losing
Speaker:their mind. And so definitely the news media feeds into it, the pundits and the politicians,
Speaker:because it's very opportunistic and people pick up on their talking points as well. But you
Speaker:do see some recoil as well from what you call like, regular people and I've even seen critiques,
Speaker:so the ones that bother me the most are the ones, like I say, like calling from inside
Speaker:the house, like leftists, people who do stuff, like most people critiquing are armchair quarterbacks,
Speaker:you know, like keyboard warriors, but like I've even, activists I respect, take issue with
Speaker:destroying art, not because they care so much about the art, but because of the other recoil,
Speaker:like that it damages the image of the movement. But you hear that in every movement ever, right?
Speaker:Black Lives Matter was like any public damage. Even people who understood riots are justified
Speaker:and definitely Black Lives Matter is justified and a right cause would have side arguments
Speaker:over, was that necessary? Do we burn down police? Pre-saints not because they don't think there's
Speaker:rage is yeah, like I say justify but because it's like this What's best for the movement
Speaker:as a whole? How may we be most appealing to the most amount of people? How can we portray
Speaker:ourselves in ways the media won't? Demonize us and it's like to Scott's point Doesn't matter
Speaker:what you do You could just walk slow in front of traffic people will be irate you could like
Speaker:a lot of these paintings are even behind glass So they're really just demonstrative. I'm not
Speaker:saying like you can't destroy art, but like people even get worked up by the idea they
Speaker:might've destroyed it. And it's like, but they don't care about climate change. They're not
Speaker:worked up about that. Yeah, I think like this is indicative of, I think what has kind of
Speaker:been a natural outgrowth of a lot of social media, and not to say that social media isn't
Speaker:good for organizing. It very much can be, but a lot of what is focused on is optics, rather
Speaker:than... effect and not that optics aren't important necessarily, but even like, you know, Jessa,
Speaker:when you mentioned doing the BLM protests in 2020, if I recall correctly, I can't remember
Speaker:the exact poll, but when the Minneapolis police precinct was burnt down, it was like, not a
Speaker:vast majority, but a majority of Americans were like, that was justified. So this reflection
Speaker:that we see in politicians and the news media is very much like We always have to keep in
Speaker:mind that it's hard to appeal to your enemy because, broadly speaking, politicians are
Speaker:not working for the working class interests. There- and neither are news media conglomerates
Speaker:which are owned by, you know, powerful businessmen or mostly businessmen, occasionally a businesswoman
Speaker:if you're lucky. And they're pushing at these points. I'm not looking for equality there,
Speaker:don't worry. Yeah. They're pushing these points is indicative of class interests. So to fall
Speaker:into this trap of first of all believing what they say because I know a lot of working class
Speaker:people probably do have those opinions, but they see it reinforced and then they think,
Speaker:oh, okay, this is the right opinion to have. We need to keep in mind always when this happens
Speaker:is to point it out and Santiago, maybe you When I've been taught journalism, a lot of times
Speaker:what I've been told is just lay out the facts and the reader is, you know, they can come
Speaker:to the conclusion themselves. And I've learned increasingly that media literacy is something
Speaker:that is not standard. We can't trust the average reader to have all the context. And that's
Speaker:not a reflection on readers not knowing enough. That's a reflection on the system not cultivating
Speaker:that skill. So when this all happens, and you see these points. you know, count on them if
Speaker:you want, but also keep in mind that this is an intentional tactic. They're not just saying
Speaker:these things because they believe them and they don't know any better. They know better. And
Speaker:then that's why they're saying these things. Yeah, I don't know if you've come across that
Speaker:Santiago. Oh, yeah. Constantly. And you know, speaking of like media, I mean, climate change
Speaker:is something that is so constant that according to, you know, your news values, not a lot of
Speaker:point to cover it. because we know we're fucked, that's been covered, but you need new things
Speaker:to cover, right? That's what they say. Like, where's like the recency? Where's what's happening
Speaker:right now? And so like it or not, these tactics bring attention to something right now and
Speaker:they're gonna get coverage and they're gonna have people talking about it. And I don't care
Speaker:how much people like this art. It needs, like this is our lifetime catastrophe. As you say,
Speaker:nothing will matter. if the planet is destroyed. And for me, there's also a certain like frustration
Speaker:from like, people have the these feelings for these paintings and these monuments and stuff.
Speaker:But what about like, the destruction of the planet? Like, I feel disgusted every time I
Speaker:look outside and I see everything that humanity has done to the planet. And that is so many
Speaker:times worse than a singular piece of art, a singular monument. But that's never going to
Speaker:get the same rage. And so people really need to get their priorities straight when looking
Speaker:at this. Because I was just thinking of the bison the other day and how bison used to be
Speaker:all over North America, and then we destroyed all the bison, specifically the screw over
Speaker:indigenous people. And it's like, you know, that will not get rage in the same way. Yeah,
Speaker:well, it's interesting that you mentioned that, because a thing that I saw. specifically in
Speaker:this context, but it's also kind of been broader use was a lot of people were like quote-unquote
Speaker:concerned that the paint that they used would destroy the rare lichen that's on Stonehenge
Speaker:and It's this just craven opportunism where yeah, we're all concerned about climate change
Speaker:So why are you harming this lichen that's on Stonehenge in protest of the world dying? And
Speaker:it's like when Trudeau was like, actually we bought a pipeline and we're operating it so
Speaker:we can stop climate change. We can use the profits from that to stop climate change. And I don't,
Speaker:it's the same thing. I don't think these people genuinely believe or expect us to believe this
Speaker:because it's so blatant. But at this point, it's just reinforcing the current status quo
Speaker:because they need to do it at any cost because they don't have a reason on their side, clearly.
Speaker:And it's just disgusting to see. I'm sorry, I'm just stuck over here trying to figure out
Speaker:like who is that person that came up with that talking point? So I'm imagining it's like some
Speaker:microplastics PR guy who just like has this side fixation on Stonehenge and knew about
Speaker:some rare and he was like, yeah, that shit will kill it. We know because we make it that paint,
Speaker:you know, like we got I gotcha. We got them this time, you know, like finally a good use
Speaker:for our destructive of the environment. We could turn it around on them. Like who did the research
Speaker:for that? I mean, that is some climate change think tank working over time there. I want
Speaker:to go back to like the optics, because, yeah, we did like a live stream on narratives, managing
Speaker:the narratives. And so when you said optics. shouldn't be like important. They shouldn't
Speaker:be the be all end all. And I think you're right from the perspective that you meant it, but
Speaker:I just want to add like a little kind of side clarification. Optics are super important,
Speaker:but managing them isn't. What I mean is shaping these images that you want to put out to placate
Speaker:or to like you say, speak to your enemy, convince your enemy or speak to their talking points.
Speaker:Those kind of optics aren't important, but like revolutionary optics are very important, right?
Speaker:I imagine more people are fired up by seeing these direct actions than are just genuinely
Speaker:disgruntled by it. You know, like, like more than one tweet sent out about it. Like they
Speaker:are writing their politician on this Stonehenge business, right? But sending out revolutionary
Speaker:optics, you know, getting in the news in any means possible with your images, because then
Speaker:they can recycle these. Even their arrests, right? They are very adept at getting in the
Speaker:face of folks being arrested where they're saying, this is my name. This is why I'm doing it.
Speaker:This is why this won't stop me. And like surely any bad press you get. in those moments is
Speaker:worth being able to then use social media to share those kinds of, you know, optics and
Speaker:not to worry about how you come across, but to set that path, right? This is how we're
Speaker:going to come across and we own it and, you know, you can too. That's a good point to bring
Speaker:up. And I also think that's something, this is kind of a far cry, but this is what comes
Speaker:to mind. Something that... appeal to a lot of people when Trump ran in 2016 was he was honestly
Speaker:a piece of shit. And when you go through so many politicians who are like dishonestly a
Speaker:piece of shit, somebody who's just like, yeah, I hate Mexican people is disgusting and does
Speaker:appeal to racists. But it strikes me as the liberals are conflating that with the actual
Speaker:values being held. The amount of times in personal conversations I've been completely open about
Speaker:my politics and, you know, one of the things that I do fairly regularly is on a whole broadly
Speaker:I'll defend the USSR. Obviously, every country is not perfect and I will own that up. But
Speaker:a lot of people, and I do have a privilege in this being a cis head white guy, I will admit
Speaker:that, they kind of at least respond to that. They're like, oh, okay, well, you know, everything
Speaker:I know is bad about this. And this is just an example. So if in these situations, just like
Speaker:you mentioned, like if somebody's being arrested and they're saying, I am being arrested for
Speaker:protesting against the death of the planet or everybody on the planet. And all my crime was,
Speaker:was throwing paint on some very old and significant rocks. If that is done and... sent out through
Speaker:separate channels rather than like Sky News or whatever who's probably going to play that
Speaker:footage and then just like mute it or something or not even play the footage like they'll do
Speaker:everything they can to avoid that if you provide that alternate perspective to a narrative that
Speaker:is being made that is important and I typically when I say optics I mean like a lot of this
Speaker:liberal idea of um this fetishization of non-violence can be a good tool and I hope everybody at
Speaker:least prioritizes that. But on occasion, I've seen, I mean, if we want to criticize Just
Speaker:Stop Oil, we certainly can. But one of my criticisms of just it broadly is a lot of people will
Speaker:not have tactics to de-arrest in certain situations. And technically that's violence if you're de-arresting
Speaker:somebody. I do agree that revolutionary optics are good and we should not defer to how movements
Speaker:and actions are viewed. just because of how news media presents them. Cause that, I mean,
Speaker:that's one of the main things I want to do with the catch is point out that it's consistently
Speaker:happening. A lot of people read manufacturing consent, rest in peace, Noam Chomsky, you're
Speaker:still alive, Michael Perranti and understand it as a concept. But when you see it happen
Speaker:regularly, and especially in instances like this, where it's the same talking points being
Speaker:pushed over and over, it really cultivates that media literacy that is just completely abandoned
Speaker:in modern society. You know, I asked all my J-School profs if they had read Manufacturing
Speaker:Consent. Only one of them had, and he was the best one I had. But it's crazy to me how many
Speaker:happened. But it's, you know what I can't help think of was that movie Don't Look Up. And
Speaker:I think it was like a really good show of like how Knowing about this issue isn't going to
Speaker:save us from it. It's not a lack of knowledge about climate change that's the problem. People
Speaker:don't need to know more. And so like back to like what you were saying about facts, right?
Speaker:Like if news is just presenting facts, well, that's not enough, right? And clearly, we tried.
Speaker:It's worked well so far. I don't know what you're talking about. We'll work for who? Yeah. And
Speaker:so. When people are faced with this incredible frustration of like, it's been decades and
Speaker:we've made almost no progress and it's getting worse and we're starting to experience the
Speaker:consequences and now we're choking on smoke. What do you expect people to do? Do we expect
Speaker:people to just sit there and just... you know, kumbaya your way to the end of the world? No,
Speaker:like, this is the inevitable... reaction and honestly, it's not even far enough. No, I mean,
Speaker:we started talking about corn starch. Corn starch! Yeah, like, it's times like these when I don't
Speaker:even know what to say because it's just such a huge issue. Like it's so, like what the,
Speaker:like we know what the answer is like at the end of the day, it's just shut everything down.
Speaker:Like, like shut every railway down, shut every pipeline down and force their hands, right?
Speaker:And I guess like the only question is like getting there at this point and this is a step towards
Speaker:that. And so when this is the backlash, like it's not even like, like I want to say like,
Speaker:just forget about this. Forget about the cornstarch on the thing. Let's go like block some railways
Speaker:and like really make some noise because we don't have time. We have so little time to deal with
Speaker:this. It's just this overall attempt to really lower our toleration of any disruption at all
Speaker:too. Right. Like that's one of the main. drivers of the media feeding into this so badly and
Speaker:you hear it like you say with Starmor criminalizing it and he's I mean that's just one example
Speaker:that is normal that's happening here in Canada we document it regularly back on blueprints
Speaker:of disruption especially but it's where you can do it when you can do it how you can do
Speaker:it do you need a permit What can you say in your microphone? Wait, you can't use a microphone.
Speaker:You know, spray painting on the ground ends up with violence, responses from police. And
Speaker:there's just like endless examples that it, from cornstarch to de-arresting, the narrative
Speaker:facing you is the same. It's still criminal, it's still abhorrent. It's, you know, you might
Speaker:be blocking an ambulance with your march, like there's... There's a fire hazard at the encampment.
Speaker:Like everything challenging that system will face massive amounts to delegitimize it. And
Speaker:I hate that anybody ever feels obligated to like defend themselves. Like I don't think
Speaker:Just Up Oil spends any time issuing many responses to. It was just corn starch. Don't be worried.
Speaker:You know, like I think they just plow ahead. to the next. They're anticipating this kind
Speaker:of response. It's part of their strategy that Santiago laid out, like getting us to talk
Speaker:about climate change, at least, right, rather than it being a forest fire that gets us to
Speaker:talk about it. It's just like some rocks that people piled up. But like hell, even the forest
Speaker:fires are like met with so much like skepticism and like arson. Yeah, it was a bunch of arsonists
Speaker:and this and that. Yeah, I think it's indicative that it almost seems like when media covers
Speaker:Just Up Oil's actions, it seems like they're only covering it to discredit them because
Speaker:if there was any honesty in the reporting, they would say, Just Up Oil did this to Stonehenge
Speaker:in protest of climate change. This many acres burned in Canada the past year. This is what
Speaker:the sea is like. It would point out... the context of it, because when you just say climate change,
Speaker:it is this thing that we're all kind of aware of, but we don't really know the specifics
Speaker:of it. And there's a really good piece of McLean's of all places. I think it was last August.
Speaker:It was like Canada in the year 2060. And it just went through, like if we stopped all oil
Speaker:production now, this is what it's gonna be like in 40 years. I think that was a really good
Speaker:piece. But the problem is, is we've kind of segmented that idea off into itself. So when
Speaker:stuff like this happens, it's... not even like in the conversation because I guess we got
Speaker:to hit 800 words and that's too much. And another thing that kind of came to mind when we were
Speaker:talking about what just stop oil is doing, this is something that also I it's kind of known
Speaker:but I don't think it's reported too much. The majority of like actions directly combating
Speaker:like climate change and energy companies is done by indigenous people and indigenous people
Speaker:across the world have faced such repressive violence. In fact, I think it was fairly recently,
Speaker:a few months ago in Panama, there were people protesting a Canadian mine and I think it was
Speaker:an American tourist just shot one dead. So when we see this coverage, disproportionate coverage
Speaker:of spray painting Stonehenge, compared to maybe two articles about a climate protester in Panama
Speaker:being shot dead by a tourist, like which one of those two is easy to turn against? the protesters.
Speaker:Kind of like that's just one example but like if you just look broad broadly about it and
Speaker:all this coverage about Wet'suwet'en land and CGL and NBC it's kind of dropped off and left
Speaker:a lot to indie publications and it's still ongoing all of what's happening in this violence against
Speaker:indigenous people and I think when this is mainly the function of news media when it focuses
Speaker:on oh everybody knows Stonehenge everybody loves Stonehenge don't you hate when Stonehenge has
Speaker:paint on it? And that's pretty much the end of the conversation. And it's so frustrating
Speaker:to see not only those points being pushed, but being engaged with like they're an honest position
Speaker:to be debunked or something like that when they're clearly not at this point. Even further than
Speaker:that, there's stuff like, I mean, if we're talking about the destruction of like national monuments
Speaker:and stuff, like Israel's genocide against Palestinians has been destroying. all kinds of sacred sites
Speaker:and while simultaneously war is incredibly bad for the planet in terms of like emissions and
Speaker:that's not going to get the same response out of people as Stonehenge even though that is
Speaker:incomparable to Stonehenge right like the and this is the problem of leaving things to news
Speaker:values. is that it's not actually a reflection of anything value based. One thing that comes
Speaker:to mind while I'm thinking about this, and this is a bit of a personal anecdote, was, you know,
Speaker:my grandfather was an architect and an artist, and he was also very concerned about climate
Speaker:change. And I'm just thinking about, like, what he would have said if, like, something that
Speaker:he created was targeted to make an demonstration. He would have, like... fully supported. I'm
Speaker:sure like so many of the artists that created all of these things that people care about
Speaker:now would have been people that would have said, no, my art doesn't mean shit next to the destruction
Speaker:of the planet. You know, like it's people, it's not a reflection of that at all. And I just
Speaker:take a moment to mention like my home city Bogota, as an effect of climate change, we're running
Speaker:out of water. Bogota might run out of water this month. And everyone's having to ration
Speaker:water because of climate change. And that has never happened before. So those are the real
Speaker:effects. Those are the real important things, but Stonehenge. I want to go back to the Wet's
Speaker:Wets'n though for a second because there is an update there and it's just so hypocritical,
Speaker:right? So if we're talking about protecting things, things that should be there, you know,
Speaker:these are land, literally land and water defenders that are being criminalized. and their trial
Speaker:has been postponed until September. It should have been taking place right now. Apparently
Speaker:an illness has postponed it, is what the explanation is, but it's so inflammatory and problematic.
Speaker:That's not even adequate to describe it, but the Amnesty International sent... delegation
Speaker:to observe the trial and they issued a really condemning statement which you know it's not
Speaker:the first time for amnesty to come down on Canada especially when it's dealing with their history
Speaker:or their current treatment of indigenous peoples but I just want to read their statement because
Speaker:it speaks to like what we're talking about here where you're criminalizing folks that are trying
Speaker:to do the good work One of their America's director there said it should speak volumes that the
Speaker:world's largest human rights organization has a global campaign to stop the criminalization
Speaker:of indigenous land and water defenders from the what's a nation. So they are appealing,
Speaker:sorry, side note, they're appealing to folks in other countries to help stop what the Canadian
Speaker:government is doing right now. So I'm sure we've all been there where we've signed petitions
Speaker:criticizing other countries and stop your criminalization and targeting of activists. And so that's actually
Speaker:happening on an international scale with Amnesty International. And they added there, it's appalling
Speaker:that instead of protecting the rights of these defenders, the authorities of British Columbia
Speaker:have decided to prosecute them. Some of these defenders even face possible jail time. Canada
Speaker:is on the sadly long list of countries in the Americas where land offenders remain at risk
Speaker:for their essential work. Yeah, so we'd like to dish on Canada's national identity as often
Speaker:as possible. Like, we are not what we say we are. Of course not. No, and it's that colonial
Speaker:dimension to it. And I'm kind of glad you brought this up, Santiago, about the genocide that
Speaker:Israel is currently committing in Palestine, because when it gets to a certain point, that's
Speaker:all that's left to do is to post dishonest condemnations. which we've seen time and time again coming
Speaker:from Israel, you know, oh wow, well there was a Hamas base under this hospital, that's why
Speaker:we had to bomb it. Well there was, oh here's a list of the terrorist schedule and it's just
Speaker:the days of the week for like, hospitals. Like it's this point where the point of the lie
Speaker:is to just reinforce what's happening rather than convince anybody. I think in the terms
Speaker:of like BC and amnesty coming down on BC and Canada's treatment of indigenous people is
Speaker:if you were to if it were more prominent in new cycle and you take it to BC, they would
Speaker:just say something like, you know, we respect the rule of law, which most of BC if not all
Speaker:I believe is on unseated indigenous land. So if you actually wanted to like do like law
Speaker:and order, you would return all of the land that you have taken from indigenous people.
Speaker:Because this is a system that cannot logically defend itself at this point. Maybe back in
Speaker:like the 60s or 70s where there wasn't as widespread knowledge or access to information, maybe you
Speaker:could post something like this and a lot of people would go, well, I didn't think of it
Speaker:that way and so on and so forth. But with the news cycle being so fast and the same excuses
Speaker:being put out verbatim every time. I sincerely doubt that anybody's convinced by it. And my
Speaker:greater concern is that people are just disengaged because of this onslaught of like dishonesty.
Speaker:They're just like, everybody lies. So I'm not gonna even care, which is not the response
Speaker:because that's kind of what they want. So you should be mad that people think you're this
Speaker:stupid. That's why, that was what gets me fired up. Is that like, nobody is this stupid. You
Speaker:can't honestly believe that we think that you're arguing in good faith. And I think that's a
Speaker:much better and more productive path to take. Yeah. That definitely disengagement is hard
Speaker:to tackle. Like it's such a barrier because then people will just regurgitate whatever
Speaker:they're reading on social media and whatever comes easiest to them. Even though we're at
Speaker:a time where resources are the most available that they've ever been, right? Like you said,
Speaker:there's really no excuse. Everything is at your fingertips, but... And I
Speaker:even though it's demonstrably not true, because people are throwing paint on Stonehenge in
Speaker:a small act of resistance. There's all this systemic pressure to minimize it and refute
Speaker:it because if this act, however small and you know, if you want to critique it for not being
Speaker:you know, bombing something, that's you know, that's a different discussion. But however
Speaker:small it is, all this systemic pressure to discard it is almost a sign of like how precarious
Speaker:things are right now. Because if it didn't matter, you would see one story about it maybe, and
Speaker:then that would be the end of it. But since everybody is up in arms about it, they have
Speaker:to pick an easy win that they can frame and I don't think it's going to be as easy as they
Speaker:think it is, especially considering how it's the same plate book every goddamn time. Like
Speaker:I have so many feelings about this topic, but it's like one of those things where I don't
Speaker:even know how to articulate what I'm feeling because it's so absurd. Yeah, that's the thing
Speaker:too is like, that's kind of why I posted that I was like, can we not do this? Like, it seems
Speaker:self evident that this is just a ridiculous conversation that's happening. And I don't
Speaker:know how else to put it like, stop. So we spend more time on it. That's our thinking. But I
Speaker:think it's like they've got some creative bits as well. So. It doesn't have to be a discussion
Speaker:around the critiques always, even though it's important to give people courage to not worry
Speaker:about these critiques, right? To push through them. But at the same time, today, I'm loving
Speaker:what people are coming up with as forms of disruption. I feel like we are in peak creativity era.
Speaker:And like corn starch maybe is not up there, but there's folks today, maybe still. Blockading
Speaker:Elbit systems somewhere in the UK. I apologize for not having the details and they've like
Speaker:cemented themselves to a vehicle somehow cemented themselves and so yeah, and so You can go watch
Speaker:live if they're still there the cops Desperate trying to figure this out, right? So there's
Speaker:a car, there's a cop like in the trunk with a jackhammer trying to chip away at this big
Speaker:block of concrete. And there's like folks lying around the car. So they're somehow attached
Speaker:to it. I don't fucking know, but they know no end. I think the diversity of tactics is really
Speaker:important too. Cause I didn't want to focus on a criticism of just stop oil, even though
Speaker:there are some are honest ones you could do. But like when it comes down to it, they're
Speaker:doing something. And at this point, we need to do everything. And whether you think something
Speaker:is enough or not is irrelevant because unless you are also working towards something, it's
Speaker:all talk and no action. Random side note, just because cement was mentioned, do not cement
Speaker:yourself to things. Cement has toxins that will build up and can be very dangerous. There are
Speaker:other ways to permanent, to attach yourself to things that are a lot safer. Just cement
Speaker:is not one of them. To be fair, I think the cement is in the trunk and the people are somehow
Speaker:attacked and they're outside the car, but I imagine there's dust and I don't think they
Speaker:gave them, you know, ventilation masks. The cops are in there, they're not masked. Yeah,
Speaker:just do not cement on your body, is my thing. They're using super glue, like isn't that,
Speaker:like, anyway. Very much so. Bracels. Agreed. But yeah, no, it's everything. We need everything
Speaker:because we have no time. We don't even have time to like... Talk about what we should do.
Speaker:We just need to do literally anything. It's like throw everything at the wall, even corn
Speaker:starch. Kitchen sink. Exactly. And that's why I think it's a productive conversation to have
Speaker:something like this rather than sitting down and debunking the points bit by bit. Because
Speaker:I think when we talk about it on a macro level and how this is systemically being reinforced,
Speaker:and you can navigate it a bit more, especially if you do these actions or if you follow these
Speaker:actions, you can navigate it more in a more productive way. hopefully refine movements
Speaker:and tactics. I think that's important. Yeah, hopefully nobody's out there trying to disprove
Speaker:the fact that the Lycan would survive said cornstarch. Like, I hope there's no energy being spent
Speaker:there. Keep moving forward, people. All right, I think that's it for our rabble rants today,
Speaker:folks. That is a wrap on another episode of Blueprints of Disruption. Thank you for joining
Speaker:us. Also, a very big thank you to the producer of our show, Santiago Jaluc Quintero. Blueprints
Speaker:of Disruption is an independent production operated cooperatively. You can follow us on Twitter
Speaker:at BPEofDisruption. If you'd like to help us continue disrupting the status quo, please
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Speaker:support come from the progressive community, so does our content. So reach out to us and
Speaker:let us know what or who we should be amplifying. So until next time, keep disrupting.
