Transforming Workspaces: The Role of Technology in Employee Experience

Exploring the intricate relationship between technology and workplace dynamics, Mike Galea and Tristan Kelly tackled the pressing issue of how technological advancements can both aid and hinder employee productivity. They posed critical questions regarding the true value of workplace technology, urging listeners to consider which tools genuinely enhance the employee experience versus those that complicate it. Their discussion illuminated common frustrations within modern work environments, where an excess of applications can lead to confusion and disengagement, ultimately detracting from the overall workplace experience.

Through thoughtful discourse, they articulated a shared belief that the objective should not merely be the adoption of technology for its own sake but rather the pursuit of tools that meaningfully improve the workday for all employees.

The conversation was enriched by the insights of Christian Wohlrab from Deskbird, who brought a developer's perspective to the table. Christian emphasised the importance of creating technology that aligns with the natural behaviors and needs of users, advocating for a design approach that prioritises ease of use and integration into existing workflows. He highlighted the distinction between workplace management and experience, suggesting that effective technology should not only manage the physical workspace but also enhance the overall employee experience. This nuanced understanding of technology's role in the workplace underscored the necessity for a balanced approach that respects both the needs of the organisation and the individual.

As the dialogue unfolded, the trio delved into the crucial role of leadership in facilitating the successful implementation of workplace technology. They concluded that for technological solutions to be embraced by employees, they must be accompanied by clear communication and a commitment from leadership to foster a culture of acceptance and engagement. This episode served as a clarion call for workplace leaders to reconsider their strategies regarding technology adoption, urging them to prioritise the creation of meaningful experiences that resonate with employees. The overarching message was clear: the future of workplace technology must centre on human interaction and collaboration, ensuring that technology serves as a facilitator of connection rather than a barrier to it.

Takeaways:

• The discussion highlighted that while technology can enhance workplace experiences, it often becomes a burden without proper integration and usability.
• Mike and Tristan emphasised the importance of technology that supports rather than replaces human interaction in the workplace.
• Christian from Deskbird pointed out that effective workplace management apps must provide tangible benefits to encourage user engagement and adoption.
• The podcast revealed that many workplace apps fail due to lack of user-friendly design, leading to low engagement and unutilised features.
• A critical observation made was that the success of technology in the workplace relies heavily on leadership buy-in and clear communication to employees.
• The conversation underscored the distinction between workplace experience and management, focusing on the need for technology to create a supportive environment for employees.

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• Deskbird
• CBRE

Studies / Articles Mentioned in this episode:

• Columbia Study - Future Work & Creativity
• Guardian Article - Workers think less creatively in Zoom meetings
• CBRE - Workplace & Occupancy Management Technology in 2024

Welcome to High Five, a podcast about people, purpose, and the experiences that connect them.

I'm Mike Galea, and together Tristan Kelly and I look at how workplaces can become engines of inspiration, belonging and performance.

If you care about culture, community and meaningful work, you're in the right place.

Let's get started.

Welcome back to High Five. Today we're diving into one of the most misunderstood areas of workplace strategy. Technology.

We've all seen the shiny demos, the dashboards, the endless promises, but the real question is, what actually improves experience? What genuinely helps people to do better work?

I think that's a really good statement to make because for every brilliant tool that removes friction, there's another one that feels like a bit of a burden.

In all my experiences, I've lost count of the amount of workplaces where people have kind of five apps, three portals, a chat box, new things coming through, new things going out, some things that aren't utilized properly, and then no one actually interacts with anything because that becomes like a job in itself.

And the irony is, most people don't want more tech, they just want better tech. They want to click less, they want to use fewer systems, and they want fewer hoops to jump through.

Yeah, I think something that kind of fits naturally into the day, it's immersed into the workplace experience, not something that actually makes you change of behavior to suit the system itself. From a front of house point of view, when technology actually works, it's really good, it's transformative. And I've seen that myself firsthand.

How we speed up arrivals, reduce frustration, and gives time to focus more on people without taking away the experience element to it all.

That's the sweet spot we're exploring today. Tech that supports humans, not replaces them. And it's funny, most building apps don't fail because the idea is bad.

They fail because they don't earn a place in someone's routine if it doesn't.

Replicate something people already do perfectly well without the app, why bother? And I know that's quite a controversial question because we are so technology advanced and that's moving very, very fast.

If tech shortens your journey or automates something tedious, you think, I can't imagine working without this.

And I think what's interesting is just how much the landscape has changed. We're no longer talking about isolated tools, we're talking about integrated systems, digital twins, AI co pilots.

But at the end of the day, the metric that matters is still human ease. Does it make someone's day smoother? Does it solve a real Frustration. If not, why does that app actually exist?

That's what we should spend time chatting today. Let's cut through the hype. Let's actually focus on what works.

Okay, well let's get into it.

I imagine it's quite a big number because there's so much rubbish out there. I'm going to guess around 5 million.

You know what, you're close, but not that close in the context. Actually there has been around 8.9 million apps created since its inception. A lot of those free.

Free to download obviously with in app purchases, which was a big thing. You know, if you're talking on average 49p an app or a pound an app if something you really, really wanted, that not massive, is it?

No. You pay more for a coffee.

Absolutely.

But you know that I suppose that gets us comfortable in this notion of, of technology and AI driven enhancements that we are now coming into our, I suppose the early stage of that. So this is I think a really good positioning for us.

You, I think, work probably a lot closer to technology and apps than I do at the moment. What's one piece of workplace technology you've seen recently that genuinely made someone's day easier?

We were talking earlier about if it doesn't help, if it doesn't improve your day, if it doesn't provide information you can't get somewhere else, why do we have them? So, yeah, have you seen anything recently that's that's made someone's day easier?

I think, you know, in my world we're talking more along the lines of. Well, we're talking about a couple of things.

In my world we're talking, you know, workplace management systems, which is more around visitor management. So how immersive is that experience?

The one thing I saw and I went into an office in London and I think it was the immersion of the experience and the technology.

So while I was signing in, the amazing front of house host was talking me through emergency procedures at the same time I was scrolling through to say that I understood the concept of being a visitor in that particular building and it just felt so seamless.

And at the same time she was pouring me a glass of water and handing me a glass of water in my free hand while I'm completing my detailed on the other hand. And the camera was perfectly aligned so I got a good picture because that's going to go on some pasta, people are going to see.

Which is a complete juxtaposition to a recent one I had were for some reason the tablet was down on the desk facing up and they got all the chins. They got every chin I had and I felt horrible about that. And I'm looking down at my own picture trying to get.

And it's just a really weird angle, but I think it was a good experience in that place in London. But not because specifically the technology. It was because of the way it was created and she knew exactly what she was doing and it was perfect.

And before I knew it, I'd signed in and had a glass of water in my hand and I'd gone through the technology angle.

That's interesting because it looks as if in that scenario the technology has been adopted effectively. I remember a number of years ago when they started bringing in robotics within the cleaning industry, something we used quite a lot.

In airports where you've got huge terminals, it's easy to set something on between 2 and 4 in the morning that does the scrubber drying vacuum in various other tasks. And there was talk around the technology taking, taking away jobs, making, you know, kind of reducing the level of labor.

Key thing to look at was if we are taking away those tasks.

So if we look at Internet of things, if we look at washrooms being serviced when they've had a thousand people use them or 100 people use them, or 50 people use them, as opposed to you go and attend that washroom every 45 minutes, where if no one's used that washroom in 45 minutes, which is often the case in airports and there's no point sending someone along, that's a waste of resources.

And so when you, when you can save time and energy and you're working on demand, what you can then redeploy your humans to do is the presentation stuff. So all the kind of finer details.

So the example you gave earlier where actually that technology just gets you into the door, but that front of house individual was then able to provide a higher level of customer service, a greater experience using the technology effectively.

I think you're absolutely right and I've seen some amazing advancements when it comes to that kind of workplace technology.

You know, one in particular is the, you know, the sensors, the AI driven sensors that do track that footfall going into those public areas such as kitchens and toilets. They're the things that need to get serviced quickly because it's that piece behind the scenes that plays a big part.

And how it sends those numbers, that data to an individual to say, okay, my threshold is after every 20 people have visited, I will then go and service that particular place. AI driven technology, which does that and then tells you it's now time to go, I think belongs again.

That's a, that's a tool that we can use on behalf of businesses and clients and knows that they should want that seamless operation. But when we move to what I was talking about around the VMs, well, that's guest facing, that's visitor facing.

That's the stuff I have to interact with when I walk into a building I've never been in before. And when it comes to that, that kind of technology, what's your view? And I've been in hotels, we don't have any interactions with anyone.

You are doing a self check in. What's your thoughts on that?

I think there's a balance, there's a balance between having the technology so smart and interactive that you don't need a human being. There are those individuals that don't want to interact with anybody. And if that's, if that's what flicks their switch, great.

For me personally, I quite like to say hello to someone. I'd like someone to notice me when I come into the area, whether that's a restaurant, a shop, bar, an office, an art gallery, whatever it is.

I want to feel that I've been acknowledged in some regard that there's that human connection.

Okay then, so here is, let's flip the switch because we are going to be getting into all of this when we talk about workplace apps versus the workplace experience. I think industry wise, especially within fm, in terms of what we do and our partnerships that we create.

We've been on a bit of a journey, but we've also, we've never quite nailed the technology journey of what should belong when it comes to effective space management.

Yes, for me, I think there's a real challenge with workplace apps. If I haven't used something, it goes back to the basic principles as a graphic designer as to why you would design a website.

So you design a website and you create things that will keep people coming back to it. If you've never updated your website or your blog posts are four years old, no one's going to visit that website.

And it's the exact same thing with an app. It's great being able to provide apps and for them to be sold and implemented within our world.

And what's quite interesting, CBRE have got a study, but they were saying that 80% of apps have less than 20% engagement. That's really interesting. You think, well, what are the reasons behind that? And I think it's about usability. What are those apps being used for?

If the app enables you to come in and use the access points, access the lift book meeting rooms, book a hot desk, pre order your lunch, maybe get some dry cleaning so that it becomes an integral part of your working day when you're in the office. Well, if that app actually provides some benefit to you, then you're going to use it.

And if you can then look at, well, what kind of events are on on the Wednesday when I'm going in that I can meet with other colleagues we can actually engage with. Again, there's another reason to use that app. I find that they are often too niche. They will fix a particular problem.

So you've got an app just for access, or an app just for a meeting room booking, or an app just for desk booking, or an app just to pay for your lunch through the staff canteen. Having five apps to do all of that, ridiculous.

But at the moment I don't think there's enough integration and I don't think that the, the customer experience or the customer journey is at the forefront of why those apps have been developed.

So you think the experience side, the, the UX side is, is lacking when it comes to immersion?

I think the UX is probably designed well and provides a good user experience of using that app. I take issue with is the app actually providing an experience?

If I gave you that example, you've got five apps that will help you in your daily interaction with the building. Well, that's far too many.

There should be one that's integrated, but if they're not coming from the same provider, you've got competing economics and there are commercial reasons why you won't get an integrated one app to provide multiple services.

I think you're right. It goes back to over engineering, doesn't it? Are we making the workplace more complicated?

I guess the question that's on my mind right now, Tristan, I'm keen to get your view on this one is does volume make a difference?

So I let's say a property in one of our major cities where space hasn't been an issue over the last few years, but the volume of people now pointed to those offices and the working dynamic changing to Tuesday to Thursday, does that push organizations into needing a workplace app, not wanting it, but actually just needing it to control that flow?

But then to be able to control that flow, you need to be able to track data.

So just having a building app because a tech bro wants to sell you five to ten grand worth of product for your property, that's entirely different to having an app that is built for user experience. Often you buy these apps, they're kind of given to the building management team.

The building management team have no experience of setting apps up, they have no experience of running apps. And as I mentioned before, if there is no reason for you to continually go back and use that app, you'll enjoy your donuts.

On the day when the app's launched in the building, you'll download the app, you'll provide an email address and if you haven't used it within two or three weeks, you're probably going to delete it and there'll be no reason for you in the future to, to put that app in.

So if you don't have a coherent strategy for why you're putting the app in and how you're going to engage customers in using the app from a day to day basis, then it's going to be a real challenge getting people to engage.

Now, from a company point of view, you might want to know, well, on a Tuesday we've got 70% occupancy and out of our 10 meeting rooms, only two were available over the last four Tuesdays. That's useful information. And you can be collecting that from the, from the app through your sensors, through your Internet of things connectivity.

If you're trying to do that through a workplace app, the app needs to provide something to the customers and not just be a way of extracting information. Where they're going, what things they're using people.

People will happily give that information up if they know that there's a positive benefit for providing that information. They don't want to be tracked.

Like if you suddenly get an email from your boss to say, oh I noticed she left at two minutes to four the other day and you know, they weren't even in the office, you'll think, well they're just tracking my usage through, through some back of office port. Then no, you're going to delete the app and say well I'm sorry, I'm not gonna not providing that level of information. Thank you.

And I love the question because that takes me back to the COVID horror stories where you were being told keep your camera on all throughout the day. So your observe and see. You do remember it was all in the news and stuff like now I never had that experience actually. But yeah, you're right.

Like what are you Using my data for where is it going? How is it driving strategy? There's a twofold thing. One is the they want it for the functionality.

We have to have it because we keep running out of destined spaces and there's fighting and calamity and apocalyptic arguments happening in the office because people are fighting over possessions. And that possession being that is my desk because that's where I always sit on a Wednesday.

Right through to the data that we use, the heat mappings that we would put in the heat map sensors, congested areas become why people are particularly working in there. Yeah, that data is so, so important. A doesn't lie and B, it gives you a real good understanding of your, of your workplace dynamic.

You know Tristan, I think we've reached that point where we need to hear from an expert.

You and I are talking about workplace apps and technology and it'll be wrong of us to to end this without actually bringing in someone who lives and breathes this industry. So I'm really pleased to announce, coming all the way from Dash Word in Amsterdam, we have Christian Wohlrab.

Hi Christian.

Hey Mike.

Hey Tristan. Great to be here.

Christian, tell us a little bit about yourself and the company you represent.

Well, I'm responsible for partnerships at Deskbird. Deskbird is a workplace management app and we've been in the market since not quite inception, but for four years now.

The space or the category is probably a little older, but since the pandemic quite a few incumbents have risen to the top and surfaced and we are one of them.

Maybe not the biggest, but maybe we are at least in Europe where we certainly have a very strong footprint in the German speaking region as well as the uk, Netherlands and France.

Have you always been focused on technology or is this something you came into recently?

Well, I guess you could say technology, yes, but I'm a mechanical engineer so I always hated electronics and software. So I studied in Vienna, spent a few years there, then went into consulting. So also not much technology there, at least not on the software end.

And I left then consulting to incorporate my first startup and now this is basically the second one where I've been joining very, very early and I would say I've been in tech for probably six or seven years now.

You work for a tech driven organization that specialize in workplace management. What does that actually mean?

Prior to the call, I was wondering if we would call it workplace experience or workplace management. I'm not sure if you guys have been aware of that. The jury is still out there.

What this category will be called, if I want to remind us on the Gartner Workplace Experience Market guide, which is pretty much the staple out there when it comes to comparing software, at least in the English part, it's called Workplace Experience Market guide. So that tells you things. They think it's more of an experience less than a management thing.

And second, that means there's no magic quadrant out there. Why so? Because we as a software company, we're always looking at the quadrant wouldn't be great to be in there.

But this is really reserved only for more mature categories.

So that already tells you that there might be a market guide and there might be a lot of assessment around this as well, but it's not a very old category. So they call workplace experience.

I like workplace management because this is also where the market is hitting right now if we want to make a difference between the two terms.

So from your point of view and Despard, what is the difference between experience and management in your mind?

Yeah, from my point of view, experience means more of an hr, more of a people side of things. Whereas management is more common among the corporate, real estate and facility management audience.

So often you have both parties in projects or in deals where we talk to all the stakeholders, so then it really merges. But I would say the experience part focuses a bit more on the employee, whereas the management does focus a bit more on the space.

Okay, so we're looking at experience being people centric and the management being the physical environment.

Let me make an analogy here. And you know, we would call it user experience and facility management. Now I picked those two words because they fit the story.

But is some truth in that? I think when we started out building Dashboard, we were very much workplace experience.

It was about user first because people had to adopt to a new type of technology which is basically booking desks, meeting rooms, parking spots and so on. It was very important that this is mobile first. This is available on Microsoft Teams, on all the apps, it integrates nicely.

So we're really talking about new product that needs to be adopted, a behavioral change if you will. Whereas now one could make an argument that it shifts more towards management side of things.

As companies trying to optimize space, they might pay too much for rent, they might want to sublease, dispose space whatsoever. So you could make an argument that now since we've gotten the user user experience quite right.

I mean you can always speak better, but we might now broaden the platform at least this is what we do to become more of a management of the workspace or the workplace in general.

How do you avoid that transactional element of I'm just going into this app for 30 seconds just to book a desk and then I don't go into it again because I only go into the office once a week. How do you avoid that from an experience point of view?

So I think avoid is too strong of a term almost. If a person once a week coordinates and this is the most value they get out of our product, that's great.

That is the biggest value that makes you align the schedule with your colleagues in order to be more productive, potentially in order just to stay closer to culture and the company, or because you'd just rather work in the office because you don't have the space or the equipment at home. Certainly desperate is a product that people use weekly, some maybe daily.

But what we try to avoid is push people into a direction where they book for the entire year in advance. That's not the purpose.

So you don't want to reduce the friction to close to zero because then the intentionality of the office visit, of attendance in person meetings goes away. We want people to make intentional decisions when to go in the office and where to sit with who colleagues to meet.

So that may look different from week to week. So here you do have to adjust schedule and some companies do introduce team days, for example, to coordinate this a little bit better.

Some companies leave it more flexible and try for people to find their own approach.

You must have seen hundreds of rollouts of apps within organizations. What would you say the number one reason they succeed is?

Of course, what I see is that generally speaking, software is quite easy to roll out. Probably every second customer that walks into our door has some sort of space decision to make.

They may be reduced space, maybe they're outgrowing the space. Maybe they have just moved offices. So this usually is a project of maybe 18 to 24 months.

So desk booking is sort of towards the end of this because you don't have to order furniture, wait for it, wait for the manufacturer and so on. So it's sort of a rather easy product to procure, if you will certainly have it. Security and maybe workers, council involved and so on.

But usually it goes quite quick to get ready for an organization to deploy it. That also includes any type of setup of the office within the product.

However, the rollout itself is very much or the success of it very much depending on leadership buy in and leadership communicating to the team. This is important to us. If you just leave it to an email or a side note in the town hall, you probably won't see the adoption of any product really.

And this is not just true for us. So any good product also needs some sort of intentionality about using it so that really people adopt it over long term.

What's the one feature on your platform that's incredibly exciting and different from everybody else?

My favorite feature is a drag and drop functionality within our room booking software. Within our room booking feature, you can think of Outlook as a calendar when it comes to the rooms. You open every room and every room has a calendar.

Let's say tomorrow I need a meeting room and I know that person is in the office at 3pm so big office, many meeting rooms. So I click through all the meeting rooms to find the one that is available and you know, damn, none is available. Just happened to be that way.

Okay, but that person. Maybe we could start at 3:30. Oh, which room was now available at 3:30 again? So you're starting clicking through again and then maybe you find one.

Then that person calls you and is like, hey, I can only do four now you're going back in again, you're back again and trying to find. So in desperate, you can see all meeting rooms sort of in a like row by row.

And you put in a meeting room, it's easier for you to find the slot because maybe it's not so important if the meeting room is on the second or the third floor. Maybe you just need a room and if it's four people or six people that can occupy it doesn't matter.

And now if that person says, well, I can only do 4pm now you can drag and drop that meeting from one room to another and it looks cool too. So you can sort of fetch the meeting. And I like that.

I think it doesn't make people more efficient, it doesn't save a ton of time, but I think it's just pretty cool.

That's great. That's all around the functionality and the user experience, isn't it?

Yeah, it's a little gimmick I guess.

I mean again, I love that our product team shipped this feature and it's probably hard to attribute a value to this, but we have really great product experts who probably also just love that. So I'm like, yeah, this is cool.

So you touched on analytics there, Christian.

What behavior data do clients find most interesting Once you start collecting things, what behaviors are they looking at that quite surprising for them.

So attendance is already known as A, as a, as a statistic, as data, most, most companies know it's like Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursdays, most people in the office and so on. I think it's fascinating to see what you can do and how you can optimize the use of meeting rooms. This is, I get the most aha effect. Why?

Because usually when a meeting room is booked and it's not being used because everybody ends up being remote and joining virtually, then nobody goes into the calendar and Outlook and deletes the meeting room from the invitation list, that doesn't happen. The room will just stay blocked.

If you use check in functionality there, be it through a QR code or just a tab on the display, then you, you will get that room. If you don't do it within a certain amount of time, 15 minutes or so, then the room will get released.

So here I claim you can probably get 20 to 30% more out of your meeting rooms because you can use them more often as they're not blocked. So here I think companies are like, oh really? This is interesting.

Whereas on all the other KPIs you can reduce space, if you reduce desk ratio, you can see attendance, make sure people synchronize their schedules better, et cetera. I think here most of the stuff is known.

Is there anything more you would like to add into this?

I would love to encourage your audience to check out the Columbia study on innovation intensity in virtual meetings and meetings on site. I find this eye opening.

And so what they did is they looked at the creativity of people in a purely virtual meeting and in an on site meeting, in an in person meeting and they looked at the eye activity. So apparently science shows that the more activity, you know, the more movement your eyes have, the more creative you are.

So this can be correlated to innovation intensity. Now one can debate how, how much and so on, but so let's take that for a fact.

And that means that when in an online meeting they actually looked at online meetings and they said virtual meetings, that intensity is less. So people tend to stare at the screen. So there's less processing than happening in your head.

And I found that so interesting that you have those extra linguistic cues in person where you're reacting to someone. Your brain just processes much better. And this I think is a great case for being in the office, for having good meeting rooms.

And then to say, yeah, this probably will impact productivity, innovation. Whereas it's very hard to claim it's 20% or 30% improvement. You know, that's hard to really put the numbers.

But I think that Columbia study really made a case for that in person collaboration.

What was the name of that study?

I would have to look it up, but maybe we can link it in the show notes.

Perfect.

I just want to say, Christian, thank you so so much for coming to join us on our hi Fi podcast that I found our conversation enlightening, invigorating. Thank you so so much for your view, for introducing us to your company. If anybody wants to contact you, how do they do that?

Thank you Mike for the kind words. It's been a pleasure to jump on the hi Fi podcast. Well, you can contact us on partneresperd.com or under my personal email or on LinkedIn.

So always happy to continue the conversation.

Fantastic. Thank you.

We'll add your contact details in the link to Testbird and also a link to the Columbia study, which I'm personally looking forward to finding a bit more about. Thank you very much, Christian. It's been a pleasure. No doubt we will engage with you again in the future.

Thank you,.

Mike. That was a really rich conversation. What really landed for me was Christian's distinction between workplace experience and workplace management.

People versus space. It's a good reminder that the tech is only ever as good as the culture and behaviors that sit around it.

Absolutely. And you know what? I really loved his honesty about desk bookings being an emotional shift. You're not just rolling out a new app.

You're literally asking people to give up their desk, their plan, their photo frame, you know, all that kind of stuff.

If you don't bring people with you, especially if leadership don't show they're genuinely behind it, the cleverest platform in the world will just gather dust on someone's phone.

And it was interesting hearing how the basics are often overlooked. That story about reception spending hours each and every Friday emailing people to see if they still needed a meeting room.

That's a classic example of where tech used well can give people back their time and make space work harder.

When you start talking about freeing up 20 to 30% of your meeting room capacity just by tackling ghost meetings, that's not a gadget, that's a business case. But what I really liked is that desperate come across that they care about those small Audi button details.

You know, the drag and drop, the feel of the interaction. Because look, for me, that's where adoption actually happens.

And then there's the Columbia study he mentioned the idea that our eyes, our movement, our whole presence in a room changes a level of creativity. That's a really powerful argument for being intentional about when we come together in person, not just mandated.

You've got to be in three days a week in the office. But this is the day we collaborate. This is the day we innovate. This is the day we unstick the tough problems.

Exactly. So if you're listening to this as a workplace leader, maybe the question isn't which app should I buy? It's what experience are we trying to create?

When do we need deep focus? When do we need buzz, energy and ideas in the room? The technology should follow that, not lead it.

And if today has shown anything, it's that workplace apps can absolutely be part of the solution, but only when they're wrapped in good leadership, clear communication, and a genuine respect for how people actually work.

Well said. And Christian, if you're listening back, thank you so much for joining us.

And thank you for listening. If you've enjoyed this episode of High Five, do share it with a colleague who's wrestling with hybrid working or over engineered tech.

And let us know your thoughts, what's working, what's not, and what you'd like us to explore next.

Until next time, take care. And here's to putting people and experience at the heart of the workplace.

Sam.