Ep. 233: Lauren Kretzer - From Wall Street to Wellness: A Chef's Journey through Cancer and Beyond

Episode 233 • 25th January 2024 • PLANTSTRONG Podcast • Rip Esselstyn

[0:00] I'm Rip Esselstyn, and you're listening to the PLANTSTRONG Podcast.

From Wall Street to plant-based chef and holistic nutritionist, today I share the incredible journey of Lauren Kretzer.

It takes some twists and turns you don't want to miss. Right after this.

The Journey of Life and Guest Introduction

[0:24] One of my favorite things about hosting the PLANTSTRONG Podcast is sharing the incredible stories of my guests and the real-life ups and downs and unknown paths that they take, really that we all take in this journey of life.

My guest today, Lauren Kretzer, is no exception, and her openness to share is a wonderful gift for all of us.

Out of college, Lauren worked in a high-stress recruiting job on Wall Street, but knew her heart was in plant-based cooking.

After getting the courage to leave her career, she went to culinary school and became a private chef for many A-list celebrities.

She and her husband started a family, and life was wonderful.

with cancer in the spring of: 2020

The lessons and the practices that she adopted during this time to improve her mental and physical health are great takeaways for us, each and every one of us.

And I know that you'll appreciate her willingness to share.

And of course, it wouldn't be the PLANTSTRONG podcast if I didn't bend her ear about some some of her favorite cooking tips, techniques, and recipes.

She is a recipe creator, after all, having contributed to many of the most popular plant-based cookbooks that all of you have on your shelves right now.

Please welcome Lauren Kretzer.

Introduction and Catalyst for the Podcast

[2:12] All right. Hey, Lauren Kretzer, welcome to the PLANTSTRONG podcast.

Thank you so much. This is an honor. Yes, it is.

It really is. And I am so surprised that you and I have never bumped paths along the way.

That's true. I mean, we met very briefly at the PCRM exam room live over the summer, and that was the catalyst for this podcast happening.

And I'm happy for that. Yeah.

Yeah. Me too.

So, Lauren, I got lots of things that I want to dive in and discuss with you because you've got a full plate.

I mean, you've got lots of you have lots of things that have happened to you over the course of the last, you know, 10 plus years.

And I'd love for people to better understand and know your your path. Sure.

And so why don't we start at the beginning, which is a great place to start, which is your last name is Kretzer.

I had a very good friend growing up named John Kretzer.

Oh, that's my father-in-law's name.

Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha.

But where is Kretzer from? Well, it's my married name.

So it's my husband's family and the Kretzer side is German. Norman.

How about your side? So I am half Argentinian, half Sicilian.

Oh, lots of tempers all around and good eating genes. So.

[3:38] Wow. Yeah. And how did you how did your parents meet? Do you know?

They actually met in college. So they went to Pace University in New York City.

And I believe they met in a room interviewing for the same job while they were still students.

But they both grew grew up on Staten Island and, well, my mom actually grew up in Argentina, but later moved to Staten Island and that's kind of where their families were, so.

Nice. Do you know between the two of them, which one got the job?

I'm sure it was my mom.

[4:12] No disrespect to my dad, but my mom is a go-getter. So I don't know for sure.

I'll have to ask, actually. Yeah.

Please do. And then text me and let me know. I'll do. Right.

Okay. So do you have brothers and sisters? I do. I have two sisters.

I'm a middle child, one of three girls. So I have an older sister who lives in New Jersey where I live. And I have a younger sister who's out in Los Angeles and we're all plant strong.

So that's wonderful to hear. And was that because of your influence?

No, I wish I could take credit. My dad actually became vegetarian initially when we were kids.

And we all eventually like within a five year period, we all eventually followed suit on our own accord.

We were just really inspired by the fact that he was doing something good for the animals.

And we grew up loving animals and he he never pushed it on us.

We just wanted to do it. And then just kind of by coincidence, I think we were all kind of consuming information around the same time about health and the reality of the dairy industry and all that stuff.

I didn't even know about until I was in my 30s, early 30s.

And then we all kind of just happened to want to go vegan around the same time.

So it was kind of a funny coincidence.

Early Vegetarian Journey and Family's Transition to Veganism

[5:36] Yeah. Well, in doing my research, I read that you went kind of vegetarian at about the age of eight. Yes. Yeah. I remember that.

The moment I decided I was going to be vegetarian, I was at like a summer camp, it was like a day camp type thing.

And they were serving hot dogs for lunch.

And they referred to them as tube steaks for some reason.

And I remember just like being like, completely repulsed. And I was like, I can't eat this.

And I came home and told my mom, like, I don't want to eat meat anymore.

And I think she like, you know, she didn't know what to do.

Back then it was, you know, a big ordeal for your kid to say they weren't going to eat meat anymore.

I think she was pretty nervous, but we all turned out okay.

[6:22] Yeah. Well, so you said that your father was the one that kind of got things rolling.

So was that before you were eight or?

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. He went vegetarian. I want to say like, I don't know the exact date, but he read John Robbins book, Diet for a New America.

And that was the catalyst for his decision.

He was trying to just make some some healthy choices. And I think he was impacted by the ethical side as well.

Um, so he became vegetarian and I want to say probably within a year or two, the rest of us, um, stopped eating meat.

And then my mom was like the last holdout. She, she ate fish for a while after, but now she is, she's almost vegan.

She's vegetarian and like 95% vegan.

Gotcha. So now, um.

[7:12] So you went to college. Where did you go to college? I went to Boston College in Chestnut Hill, Massachusetts.

All right. And what did you get a degree in there? I was an English and psychology double major.

So not really using my degrees, but I loved college.

I felt like it prepared me well for real life and for professional life.

So I probably wouldn't change a thing.

I enjoyed my experience at BC. see. Yeah.

And, and your parents also were pushing for you to kind of go more the traditional route, right?

Yeah, yeah, they, they were never pressuring me in a way that was, you know, forceful.

But I think above all, they wanted, you know, financial security for us, and just stability in general, I think they, you know, money is obvious, obviously necessary to have a home and, you know, know, to be able to do certain things in life.

So that was just the obvious path.

[8:14] So when I graduated, I eventually found my way to Wall Street.

With an English and a psychology degree?

I actually was not a finance person. I was in recruiting.

So I worked in HR in Wall Street, but I was an in-house recruiter for some big firms.

I worked for Morgan Stanley Stanley and TD Securities. And I managed their campus recruiting programs in certain regions of the US.

e the financial crash back in: 2007

And the first year was pretty glamorous and exciting because they weren't really concerned about money yet.

And plus it was just a novelty. So I loved it. And then And after everything crashed, things started just getting really difficult.

People were getting laid off left and right. And I had to walk people out of their jobs, people who had been there for decades, you, you know, crying as they were leaving the building. And so that was the first sobering moment I had where I was like, I don't know if I really want to do this anymore.

And then it just got progressively more difficult as my responsibilities mounted.

[9:23] Everyone knows finance, specifically investment banking is pretty intense in terms of the hours and expectations.

[9:30] And I just wasn't enjoying it. And I just was daydreaming of another career that was very different from what I was doing.

But I was afraid to give up the security and my parents were kind kind of discouraging me from leaving for those reasons.

Transition from Wall Street to Catering and Culinary School

[9:45] And so is this when you started kind of moonlighting on the weekends doing some catering?

Yes. Yeah. I worked for a high-end catering company in Philadelphia.

I lived in Philly for a few years and called Peachtree & Ward.

And at first I did it just for some extra money and quickly realized that this was my thing.

And I just loved it. I would work like gruelingly long shifts, you know, well into the night, like midnight or after, because the parties I was catering would go that late.

And by the time I was making the food, are you serving?

I was a cater waiter, but we were in the kitchen a lot.

And I just loved it. And then I realized I want more of this.

So I started just watching Food Network and devouring cookbooks and, you know, just doing anything I could to be around food more.

And eventually, like with my recruits that I recruited into the banks, I started planning team building events and would plan some of them for cooking classes, like, probably because that's what I wanted to do, but was, you know, just saying, well, maybe they'll like this.

But in reality, I just wanted to be around food more.

[: 10:54

And thankfully it was the right choice. Wow.

Well, you must be a glutton for punishment because I know that after I graduated from college.

[: 11:14

It was a summer after like my junior year and I got a job with a catering company carrying out the food and these black tie events.

It was one of the most excruciatingly difficult long hours.

And I was after, I think it it was two months. I was done. I was done.

[: 11:41

It is really tiring and it's not for everybody.

I feel like people who get into food and have longevity in food have a very specific personality.

If you ever watch the show, The Bear, that's very true to the way it is.

It's very intense in restaurants and I feel like you have to have like a really intense personality and I guess I haven't I don't know um but I I always found it invigorating and I think I probably would have stayed more in the kitchen arena um versus private work that I'm doing now had I not become a mom I only have so many hours in a day and energy to give and it just suits me better to be home but um I loved it while it lasted I used to I worked in um some Michelin starred kitchens in the city in New York City.

And it was, it was grueling and brutal, but it was very fulfilling as well. Wow.

I guess, I guess, you know, you're cut from a different cloth, something else.

So you, at some point, when did you go to culinary school?

ed in culinary school in late: 2011

[: 12:54

I knew that we eventually wanted to start a family, but I was realizing at that point that I wasn't going to be able to be around my kids as much as I wanted with a career in New York City on Wall Street.

So I resigned from my job. It was like a year-long process.

left and started in December: 2011

And how many years was that?

It was not a full year. It was, I think, like a six month, seven month full time program.

So I was there Monday to Friday from nine to five.

And then we had externship hours that were required as well.

Like on Friday nights, we had to do a lot of service. And then after I graduated, I had to do an externship at a restaurant.

ne by, I would say like June,: 2012

Culinary School: A Nostalgic and Special Experience

[: 14:03

Yeah, I would say it was one of the best times of my life. I look back on that time with such nostalgia.

It was amazing. Natural Gourmet Institute has been absorbed by a larger culinary school now, and the program is still intact, but the school itself doesn't exist anymore.

And anyone who went to NGI will tell you it's such a special place.

It's a very specific type of person who not only loves food and the culinary arts, but is very interested in health and how the two are married.

Um, so it was just like my people, you know, uh, to meet people that loved cooking, but also cared deeply about health and the planet.

Um, so every day I just got to, I got to play. It felt, it felt like, you know, being a kid again. So.

And just how many people are going through this at the same time?

How many students are there? I believe when I was there, there were like three concurrent full time classes and the classes were between, I think, like eight and twelve people out on average.

And then there were part time students as well. But I don't know how many there were at once. It's a relatively it was a relatively small school.

[: 15:22

No. So natural gourmet doesn't require handling of meat. They have some.

[: 15:40

I felt between the fact that I ethically wasn't comfortable with it combined with the fact that I wouldn't be able to taste the food, which is so important.

Obviously, when you're cooking, you want to make sure everything is done and seasoned properly. Separately, I had interviewed at a couple other culinary schools in New York City that were more like traditional French method.

And they basically said you have to taste the food. And if you don't taste the food, you risk failing out of the class.

So clearly that wasn't an option. So I was relieved to find a school that was supportive of being plant based.

Wow. All right.

So help me out. So between so you graduated from culinary school and then what did you do?

After that, um, for the next several years?

Yeah. So I worked briefly in restaurants, as I told you, and that, that was very exciting, but you know, it was, it was pretty punishing.

And I knew that ultimately I was going to be starting a family.

So I started doing private chef work, uh, which was amazing.

I did that for several years, um, both because the hours are a lot more sane.

Um, you know, people generally don't want you in their homes all all hours of the night. So you're having more typical hours and.

[: 17:07

It's a lot more personal. You got to know your clients really well.

In some cases, you feel like an extended part of the family.

If you're in their house most days or every day, I got to, you know, do parties for them.

So it was a lot of fun. And I worked with everyone from, you know, just your average family and the tri-state area to some A-list celebrities.

Celebrities so that was pretty cool I got to work in some pretty incredible kitchens and cook for some pretty awesome people so any celebrities you can tell us about I worked for Ben Stiller I've cooked for Ron Howard I have cooked for John McEnroe I'm trying to think who else good good for John that's great and so when you're cooking for them are you also cooking vegetarian slash vegan Yes.

So those particular clients, I had started with them like once I had already stated that this was my niche and this is what I do.

[: 18:10

But his diet was pretty clean.

So I worked with that for a while. And then I believe Billy Joel, I don't know if I mentioned, I worked for Billy Joel, his wife, who was his fiance at the time was plant-based.

So she wanted more plant-based food. I don't know if Billy Joel is plant-based.

But in any case, they requested that I make the food that way.

I don't know if it ended up sticking.

But I know that Ron Howard, his son called me because they had watched Forks Over Knives and were inspired by that.

So they wanted to cook for they wanted their dad to eat more healthy food inspired in part by that movie so which i know your family was a huge part of that's great how did they find you do you know, Uh, I think word of mouth in some cases, maybe a Google search.

At the time, there weren't as many plant-based chefs.

This was, you know,: 2012

[: 19:14

And then also my school at the time had a really great job board.

And I remember they would post, you know, tons of private chef jobs on there.

And it never really explicitly said who it was for. So in the case of Ben Stiller, I believe I applied to a job and I had no idea it was for him.

And so imagine my surprise when, yeah, I was called to do that.

I was very intimidated, dated, but it was, it ended up being good.

And I worked for him for several months. And then the hours just got to be a little too much.

It was like a six day a week job and community.

Really? And so are you actually, are you going into their homes or are you bringing the food in after you've prepared it?

We did it a bunch of ways for him. So I worked out of his guest house on his property in Westchester.

And I also cooked at his assistant's home. And I also cooked in my my own home and the food would be picked up and taken to him.

So we had all kinds of arrangements.

[: 20:15

Wonderful. And recently after your second daughter was born, you weren't feeling so well and you went in and what did you get diagnosed with exactly? So I had bilateral pneumonia.

So the pneumonia was in both lungs. It was bacterial.

[: 20:44

And I just thought it was a really bad cold and went to urgent care to get it checked out.

And they took an x-ray and told me that that's what I had. And, Also had some other things going on, which I don't know if you want me to get into.

I would love it. I would love it. Yeah. Yeah. So it was confirmed that I had the pneumonia.

And then they also found a very large mass in my chest that same day, which I had no idea was there.

I labored with two daughters. I've run a half marathon.

I am very active in general and never had any issues at all.

And so when someone tells you you have something like this big next to your heart and I've never felt it before, it was it was a shock, to say the least.

So I was terrified and went to the hospital right away where they treated me for the pneumonia and started some diagnostic testing for the mass.

And what was the mass diagnosed as exactly? And did they remove it?

So it was undetermined what it was for months, which was extremely stressful for me.

No one could really figure out what it was because it had some markers that were benign and it had other markers that were suspicious for cancer.

[: 22:04

And she was primarily concerned about the size. She said it wasn't impacting my heart function, but she said that if it were to get any bigger, it, it could potentially actually displace my heart, move it out of position.

So she wanted it out immediately.

So I was referred to a thoracic surgeon who had me do a PET scan and MRI CAT scan, lots of blood work.

And he just repeated what everyone else said that it was huge.

It had to come out in that, you know, in the event that it was cancer, they wouldn't, they didn't feel comfortable biopsying it.

I believe the the risk of infection was too too big.

thoracic surgery in March of: 2020

Thoracic Surgery: Incisions and Recovery

[: 22:57

Yeah, so it depends on what they're getting at, where they're going to do the incision.

But I have two incisions on my left side, kind of like a few inches below my armpit.

One is like a longer incision and the other is a smaller, like one or two inch incision directly below it.

And unfortunately I wasn't a candidate for robotic surgery I think now a lot of thoracic surgeries can be done with very small incisions with the use of robots but the the the mass that I had was too it was not only too big I think it was too hard they like couldn't really get it out um so unfortunately I had to have the full Monty I had to have ribs displaced or I don't even know All I know is that when I woke up, the first thing I thought was it feels like I was in a car accident.

So it was pretty brutal. What was the size of the mass? Like a grapefruit?

It was about 12 centimeters, yeah.

And it ended up being benign. So it was classified as a, quote, simple thymic cyst.

[: 24:13

I think it's standard procedure like when he does this type of surgery because you don't need that gland as an adult and in the event that there is cancer, you know, they can just remove it.

So he called me about a month after my surgery, I had kind of known something was up because pathology was just taking forever.

And I was at first excusing it because of COVID.

I was like, well, I don't even know if anyone is in the lab at this point, because this is when everything was first shutting down.

But then when I went in for my first post-surgical appointment with him, he was like, well, we had to send your stuff over to Sloan Kettering for further workup.

And I was like, why is it going to Sloan Kettering? and he was just like we need to rule out cancer you know like it's a good thing we're gonna just like get to the bottom of everything and so but he said you know don't worry and like everything looks okay and you know I think he was obviously just trying to reassure me um.

[: 25:23

He didn't know that definitively when he talked to me. Otherwise, I think he would have been more upfront.

But so thankfully, they caught it very early. And it was a very curable type of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, but it was very aggressive.

So they wanted to act on it very quickly.

When you say act on it, what does that mean?

They wanted me to have conventional treatment. So even though I had had the surgery, this type of cancer can allegedly go from nothing to stage four within a matter of months.

Most cancers take a lot longer to advance, but this one goes pretty, pretty, pretty quickly.

And because I'm relatively young and because I have a family, they just felt it wasn't worth the risk of that happening. happening.

[: 26:13

So pretty much every single doctor I met with, including the doctor I stayed with long-term, suggested chemo to me and chemo alongside radiation.

So it would have been, you know, a pretty brutal treatment and it would have had come with its own set of side effects and risks.

But the first doctor I met with, even though he had suggested the chemo, he looked at my overall situation and felt that it was an option to do a wait and see approach.

So just having me come in every few months and scanning me and taking blood work and just doing a full physical.

And if even the smallest thing popped up, we would change course.

So I agreed to that. I went in every few months, and I agreed that if anything came up, I would enter conventional treatment.

[: 27:11

So I'm approaching four years this spring.

s out, which will be the year: 2025

Yeah. So you decided to forego the kind of the formal treatment that almost every doctor wanted you to do.

And you took more of a kind of a holistic healing and a.

[: 27:45

It worked well for you. Was there anybody outside of the medical field that you reached out to, like a Chris Carr or a Chris Wark or any of these people that have also had cancer? cancer? Yeah.

So the day I was diagnosed, I actually ordered Chris Work's book.

So I didn't even know that. I didn't remember that I did that until about a year ago, a friend of mine was diagnosed with cancer and I went to go send him the link of Chris's book and it said ordered on and it had the date I was diagnosed.

So I wasted no time there.

Chris's book, Chris Work's book was incredibly impactful for me.

I would say it was probably one of the most impactful things that I read when I was making my decisions about cancer.

And then Chris Carr, thankfully, is a personal friend of mine.

ears, I think, since probably: 2016

[: 28:48

But she was amazing. She offered to get on the phone with me and walked me through my diagnosis and, you know, next steps.

And she was incredibly compassionate and told me, you know, there's no wrong way to handle this. You know, every case is different.

But she was just incredibly reassuring. so yeah and for those those that don't know chris had um colon cancer chris had colon cancer right right what did chris carr have do you know she has a very rare blood cancer i believe um i forget the name of it it's it's an incredibly long name um but she actually still lives with it so it's a stage four cancer that she's lived with for i think about 20 years now and she's managed to, you know, I guess, stall the growth of it through her lifestyle change.

And I know she does go in for checkups every few years, but yeah, she is a cancer thriver, as she calls it.

And, you know, her work was so foundational for me as well.

You said that you had cancer to become the truest version of yourself.

[: 30:14

[: 30:19

You know, it's just, it's horrible and it's scary and you're face to face with your mortality.

And so when it first happened, I could not see any positive from this.

But as I lived with the knowledge that I had this threat to me, it forced me to sort of laser in on everything important in my life.

And I think COVID did that, too, for a lot of people, you know, just being forced into quarantine, where we were all just kind of trapped, you know, with with whoever we live with.

And, you know, our thoughts, I think a lot of people sort of evaluated their life and what they wanted to do, if and when quarantine ended.

So that combined with the cancer diagnosis, I just realized the things that are the most important to me.

And I think it wouldn't have been possible for me to really accept that certain things were not necessary or luxuries or, you know, whatever you want to call it, unless I was in that particular situation.

So, not only did it bring me immense gratitude for certain things of my life, it made me realize life is too short to be anything other than my true self, and I should be unapologetic about that.

You know, I'm here for a reason and I am who I am and I don't wanna spend my life trying to fit into a mold or trying to do what someone else expects of me.

[: 31:48

And that was incredibly freeing and a huge gift that I don't think I would have gotten were it not for this happened to me.

[: 32:03

So family, first and foremost, you know, my children, my husband, my parents, my sisters, you know, just knowing that I can't get through life without those people and just their impact on my day-to-day life is so positive and so supportive.

And, you know, they're really all I feel like I need at the end of the day.

It also helped me realize that I have this connection with with nature which sounds like almost cheesy to say but I didn't realize how important the natural world was to me until that time I just remember going out for these very long walks in the woods and just feeling healed by it and feeling like a part of something bigger something more important.

Deepening the Connection with Nature

[: 32:54

And, um, I think just doing what I do, like I've always loved cooking, but now I feel like I, my cooking, my career has a purpose.

I feel that if I can help someone avoid what I went through, um, then that's enough to push me forward on weeks and days where it feels hard.

I just think that people do not understand the connection between their choices and their health.

And you don't realize how precious your health is until it's in jeopardy. Yeah.

Well, so what have been some of the major changes that you've made to your lifestyle style since you've had this brush with cancer as far as maybe the foods you're eating, exercise.

Dietary Changes and Cancer-Fighting Foods

[: 34:04

Can you talk about the things that you've changed or added?

Yeah. So I started seeing a lifestyle medicine doctor shortly after I was diagnosed.

He is board certified in lifestyle medicine, but he also has a traditional physician training and he really helped me, figure out a way to eat moving forward where I was, you know, building up my immunity, just strengthening my overall wellness and health.

So that combined with my own research, which was extensive.

I've just done a ton of reading and podcast listening and medical journal perusing to discover that I just need to overload my diet with cancer fighting foods.

So the good news is, is that I happen to love those foods anyway.

And now I just put a much much heavier emphasis and priority on them.

So specifically cruciferous vegetables, kale, broccoli, Brussels sprouts, cauliflower, arugula, those are all members of the cruciferous family.

And while I loved them before, I didn't make it a priority to include them at almost every meal. And now I do.

Same thing with berries. I like berries. I didn't mind them, but now I make a a point of having them daily.

[: 35:27

And now they are front and center in my diet.

So I would say that was the biggest dietary piece for me.

Nice, nice. Yeah. And just cutting out, you know, the crap, so to speak.

I was pretty good before this this happened in terms of avoiding processed foods, but now I'm even more careful.

I try not to even bring it into my house.

So I think that's the biggest piece for a lot of people is willpower, especially when you're making a transition and an initial transition, willpower will only get you so far.

And I think eventually your taste buds change and you stop craving those things.

But in the very beginning stages, it's better not to even purchase it because when that craving hits and you're hungry.

[: 36:20

So, you know, I just stopped buying it and it's worked out well for me.

So that's the dietary stuff.

And then on the other side, I have incorporated meditation.

So I meditate as much as I possibly can, meaning not as much as I possibly can throughout the day, but more just times per week.

I aim for, you know, four to five days a week, which is realistic given my two kids, and 15 minutes each time.

And then I do a lot of nature walks, as I said before, and I've just put a heavier emphasis on exercise, which had taken a backseat in the early years of motherhood.

And now I'm back doing something pretty much every day and I feel so much better and I feel like I get sick less often and I'm happier.

So all around it's working out. Are you taking cold baths or showers?

No, I haven't gotten there yet.

I will, I will, I will see. Talk to me like in, in May, not in the winter.

So that's not one of your must yet taking showers or baths.

I'm open to it. We'll see maybe one day. Right, right, right. Good, Good, good, good.

[: 37:35

Alcohol Consumption and Lifestyle Changes

[: 37:41

Where is that now, now that you've kind of skated past cancer?

Yeah. So I actually grew up in a household where alcohol really wasn't around that much.

My parents are not sober, so to speak, but it just was not a part of their day-to-day life.

So I did not come home seeing my parents pour themselves a drink.

It was more just like holidays and special occasions. They would have something.

So when I got to college, it was like this whole new world was there that I hadn't been exposed to.

And I was just surrounded by people who were drinking all the time. I think we all were.

Yeah. So it was hard. It was hard to avoid it. And I mean, I have to be honest, it felt really fun for a period of of time.

I loved going out with my friends in college, and we had our share of crazy nights.

But as I got older, it just stopped feeling as fun. I just, you know, started paying the price more the next day.

And, you know, not to mention, it's expensive. So I'd already sort of been questioning my relationship with alcohol before this happened.

I was just like, you know, that's something I want to leave in my 20s.

And, you know, now I'm a mom, and it's just not, not my my thing anymore.

But that being said, being a parent can be stressful.

And it felt like a release some days to go downstairs and pour myself a glass of wine and have wine while watching my favorite show.

[: 39:10

And then when this happened, I was kind of forced to examine everything because I was trying to figure out why did this happen to me? You know, I'm I'm vegan.

I've been vegetarian my whole life. I'm active.

This is not supposed to happen to me. So I tried to see what what could be contributing.

And unfortunately, alcohol popped up as something that I just read time and time again.

It's a carcinogen and there's really no way around it. And people can say it's heart healthy.

People can say lots of things about alcohol. But at the end of the day, it has its deleterious effects and detrimental effects.

And the alcohol industry is pretty powerful, just like the meat and dairy industry.

So they try to sell a certain thing.

And I just started realizing, you know, I might have been being tricked a little bit here into thinking that this is a tool for de-stressing and coping.

And I need to examine that.

So that's what I've been doing. I've just been finding new ways to de-stress, new ways to decompress after a long day.

[: 40:15

So tell me, what does that look like then? Is that once a week, twice a week?

The overall goal is to eliminate it entirely at some point.

Right now I'm having, I would say, a couple glasses of red wine, like one to two days a week at most.

Um i just don't feel good if i have more than that i my body cannot handle it the way it used to um which is a blessing i guess um and i find that like with anything else it's like with food like the less you have something the less you really want it or need it um so that's been a positive and i feel like there are so many great substitutes for alcohol now um lots of different like seltzers and fake spirits and so if you really need to pour yourself a drink there's a lot of substitutes, but I feel like just having tea most nights and taking a bath is a great substitute as well. Yeah.

You know, there's so many mocktails that are out there now that are delicious.

And if you want to have that feeling of, of drinking, you can get it.

Yeah. You, you touched upon a lot of great things there and I can't, I mean, it's remarkable to me as someone who hasn't had any alcohol in over seven years. How...

[: 41:36

And to me, I think that the quicker and the faster that you can break free of that leash that it seems that, you know, so many people have with alcohol, the better off you're going to be.

And to me, especially with, you know, two young children, it's a great example you can set. You don't need alcohol. hall.

I mean, I'm very conscious of that. So I, I try to model sobriety as much as humanly possible in front of my daughters, because I know that soon enough before I know it, it's going to be in front of their faces in high school or college or beyond.

They're still really young, they're still little. So you know, thankfully, this is not on the table anytime in the next couple years, but it will be soon enough.

And I don't want them to think this is what what we do at night, You know, we just come home from work and we drink and it's just not it's not a good idea.

And I just don't want them even heading down that path being faced with the temptation of that.

So I think, thankfully, the country is going a little bit more in that direction, given how popular sober curiosity is now and sobriety in general. general.

[: 42:55

You know, there were shows like Sex and the City that were on TV at the time when I was in college that just like, just glamorized it.

It was just like, that's what you do when you go out and you have a lot of martinis.

And I'm hoping things will be better by the time they get older. Yeah.

You, you're, you're pretty open.

[: 43:18

I'd like to touch upon one more thing and then I want to talk about food. Okay. Okay.

Right. Some cooking tips and things like that. And the last thing is you mentioned that you've had some depression and mental health.

What have you found works well for you in kind of bringing you out of that?

Importance of Therapy and Exercise for Mental Health

[: 43:44

[: 43:55

There is nothing wrong with being in therapy. It does not mean that you're crazy.

It does not mean that you're suicidal.

I think everyone could benefit from therapy, honestly, even if you don't identify as being a depressed person or an anxious person.

I think we're all carrying around stuff subconsciously or consciously that needs to be talked out.

No one's had a perfect life. No one's had a life without challenges.

So I think having a safe space with an impartial party is huge to just realizing what your issues are so that you can then work on them and getting some suggestions on how to work on them.

So therapy has been very important for me.

I think that exercise is huge. As much as I hate to admit it because I have a love-hate relationship with exercise, anytime I am exercising consistently, I feel better.

So I've been exercising consistently now for I would say about four or five months before that it was like spotty I would do a few days a week but now I'm going pretty much every day and I can tell you my mental health now versus six months ago I can even see the difference then so exercise I think what do you what are you specifically doing for for exercise typically so I'll either go on a hike so I live across the street from a nature preserve so I'll do that And I also take bar classes, which is kind of like a.

[: 45:20

And I just really love it. It's a, it's a great form of exercise and there's nice community in the classes.

So, um, the combination of those two things I think have really helped.

Great. Um, yeah, no. So I, I'm sorry, I cut you off with the exercise.

Um, and you, you were saying what else you were doing? Yeah.

Meditation helps and, uh, gratitude again, again, like the, the cancer scare really helped me with that.

Just realizing how good I have it. And just the fact that I get to wake up every day and not feel sick and not feel terrified that I'm going to die is, is a huge blessing.

Um, so it's helped me, you know, kind of tune out things that otherwise would have bothered me. Now I don't really care anymore.

Thank you. Um, so I don't think it'd be fair to the audience if we didn't talk a little bit about food and you, if you could.

[: 46:18

So why don't we start with, you mentioned cruciferous green leafy vegetables, how important it is for you to get those in every day because they're such a great kind of anti-inflammatory cancer fighting food.

What are some suggestions you have for ways of preparing cooking green leafies?

Sure. So do you want me to focus on more like the leafy veggies or the sturdier cruciferous veggies?

Whichever you feel like. Okay. And I'd like to get to cauliflower later on.

So don't go to cauliflower. Okay. I will not touch on cauliflower.

So the The easiest hack, and this has nothing to do with preparation, but just more just to get it into your diet, is to buy a...

[: 47:09

So just having that, I had it at lunchtime actually today.

So you just add that to your meals. It's really fast and really easy and all the work's done for you.

So that's a little hack. And you know, you can find that in any supermarket.

It doesn't have to be Trader Joe's.

They sell like broccoli slaw mixes and a lot of supermarkets or just like coleslaw mix without the packet of dressing, obviously, will just give you those veggies all cut up and clean for you. So that's just a little hack there.

And in terms of preparing them, I think kale, you know, if you dice it really finely and get it to like a very thin ribbon like consistency, and massage it, with some vinegar, I like it with nutritional yeast, I like a little bit of micro plain garlic garlic on there.

[: 48:26

And it creates this like almost like a salad dressing just by adding all those things together in the bowl with the kale.

And it's so delicious. It's like it's addictive. I feel like you can eat massive quantities of kale that way if you're preparing it massaged up like that.

So that's my favorite way to prepare kale.

You can also do kale chips there's lots of recipes on ways to do that but the air fryer is great for that or just baking kale like tossed with some tamari and nutritional yeast again it gets like this like potato chip like consistency and even kids like that it's also really good on sandwiches to give it like a crunch um, For things like broccoli, I will steam broccoli a lot and then just toss it with, you know, some garlic and whatever other spices that you like.

And that's like an instant easy side that you can add pretty much with any cuisine.

But it's also great just tossed into pasta.

[: 49:24

So just like anytime you boil pasta, just throw in the frozen broccoli or the fresh broccoli the last few minutes of cooking, drain it all together.

And then you've bulked up your meal so you can eat more without, you know, as many calories.

And then you're adding in all the nutritional benefits of the broccoli as well.

Great. No, those are some really great ones. I know in our family, I'd say three times a week we do the really finely chopped kale, almost like, you know, chiffonade.

And then we we do the, you know, the avocado, the lime, the different different spices. is, oh yeah. It's so good.

It's like a blank canvas. I feel like you can dress up kale in so many ways.

You know, if you want to make it more like zesty, you could put in some smoked paprika and a little bit of cayenne and like, that's kind of like great on Mexican food.

[: 50:19

So talk to me about tempeh. I've got two cubes of tempeh sitting sitting in my refrigerator right now and I look I've been looking at them for the last, four days going, I need to figure out a way to make these.

And I saw you do a thing where you steam it and then you kind of marinate it and then you mash it up and you make a crumbled like Italian sausage.

Is that right? That sounds incredible.

I was actually just going to suggest that before you said that you saw that I had done that. So the steaming part is not necessary.

It's just like, if you have the time, it removes some of of the bitterness that tempeh can have some people can't detect it but people who are like super tasters say this is a little bitter i don't like it um all you do is you just steam the tempeh or you can simmer it in like a very small amount of water for like five minutes and then obviously strain out all the liquid and then you just mash it up either with a fork or a potato masher until it resembles sausage crumbles and then you saute it with basically anything that you would find in sausage.

So I like to do fennel seed, which gives it like a very distinct Italian sausage flavor, garlic, Italian seasoning.

[: 51:38

And again, you've bulked up this pasta dish, you've added a lot of great protein.

And it's just got the probiotics tempeh is a fermented food.

So you're getting really great gut health by incorporating it as well.

So yeah, that's one one of my favorite ways to use tempeh. Another thing I do is I will cube it and toss it with some barbecue sauce and add it to tacos.

So we do tempeh tacos a lot in my house as well.

And what do you do? You put that in the frying pan and then with the barbecue sauce or what?

Yeah. So you can either like pan fry it and then add the barbecue sauce at the very end, like once it's nice and warm, or you can bake it with the barbecue sauce if you prefer that method as well.

And then yeah, you just add it with all your favorite toppings. So we do like a slaw.

Usually it's like the cruciferous crunch that I just mentioned, or just some plain red cabbage.

I'll add some apple cider vinegar and some cilantro and garlic to that and put it on there with a little bit of mashed up avocado, some pickled jalapenos if you have it.

And it is just so good. We could eat those every night.

Discovering Aleppo Pepper - A Sweet and Moderately Spicy Spice

[: 52:49

I've never even heard of it. What is Aleppo pepper? And should I add it to my spice cabinet?

It's really good. So it's from, it's a Syrian type of pepper and it's got this like raisiny, like almost like a raisin or date like sweetness to it with like moderate heat. It's really not that spicy.

So it's less spicy than like a cayenne, but it's got a little bit of a kick to it.

So if you like spice but you don't want it to be like a like a hot hot dish it's a great pepper to add um and you can find it i think burlap and barrel is one of my favorite spice companies they sell a fantastic aleppo pepper um or any great spice store so if you live near like a spices or in new york city calustians um anything like that um you could order it online and it's i think it's worth adding to your spice cabinet especially not only if you like spice but if you like just experimenting with foreign flavors.

It'll really get you into that area of the world. Sounds good. Yeah.

[: 53:53

Because I am not a fan of the mushroom, but I want to be because it's such a beneficial, you know, food group.

Yeah. So help me out here. So.

[: 54:11

And I like marinating it in a mixture of balsamic vinegar, tamari, vegetable broth, a tiny bit of liquid smoke, which is not necessary.

But if you just add like the smallest amount, it really brings the flavor up quite a bit.

And some garlic, and you let that marinate for, I don't know, like 20 minutes, 30 minutes or so.

And then you can either put them on the grill or you can oven bake them.

And I swear to God, it's like my husband went crazy for these before he gave up meat.

He eventually, he gave up meat a few years ago, but prior to that, he was a big meat and potatoes guy.

And I think that was like his first foray into like, maybe I can do this.

So cooking portobello mushrooms that way is fantastic. And then in terms of like your day-to-day mushrooms, like button mushrooms, cremini mushrooms, putting them at really high heat so putting them in a great like a cast iron pan would be great if you're not cooking with oil at a super high heat and just like letting them sit without moving them around too much um for a few minutes and then you'll you can toss them but you want them to eventually get that like squeaky sound like when you're cooking them that means that a lot of the moisture has been drawn out they're going to get like that golden brown crust on them and the texture is going to be so different than the watery mushy rubbery mushrooms that some people People might be used to having.

[: 55:38

So if you're using salt, wait until they're done cooking and then salt them.

Otherwise it'll dry out the water too soon and they will get potentially a little bit rubbery.

And, um.

Shiitake Bacon - A Flavorful Alternative to Bacon

[: 55:54

So do you like the shiitake mushroom? Oh yeah. So shiitakes are super healthy.

They have amazing health benefits and they're widely available.

So most people have shiitake mushrooms in their supermarket.

You just want to remove the stem. It's one of the mushrooms where you cannot eat the stem, or at least you wouldn't want to. It's very woody and tough.

So I usually remove the stem and I'll actually freeze them and save them for veggie stock.

Or you could just compost them. And then you take the cap and you thinly slice it.

And then to make the shiitake bacon, you can just lay it out on parchment paper.

And you want to toss it with some seasoning, especially if you're not using oil, like maybe a tiny bit of tamari and a little bit of smoked paprika.

Paprika and you're just going to let that cook at like 375 i forget for how long maybe 20 minutes ish until they get like really like almost shriveled um not quite not burnt but like maybe a minute or two away from burning where all the moisture has been dried out and they're kind of crispy and they get this like really smoky bacon-esque flavor to them and they're they're really good they've just like flavor bombs and you can add them to anything that you would put bacon on.

[: 57:10

[: 57:22

I might be very many years late to the game, but I think I heard you on a podcast once saying that you had had an Instant Pot and it was sitting in the box forever.

And I also am that person. I bought it because I was like, I think I should have this for my job.

But I do not like not having control of my food. And I was like, I don't like that. I can't open this thing. I can't check on it. I can't add seasonings.

So I just avoided using it forever.

And then I saw someone that you had interviewed before, Plantiful Kiki.

I think she eats a lot of potatoes. So one time she claimed that her Instant Pot was her go-to way of making potatoes. So I thought, okay, I'm going to try try this.

And now I feel like I'm spoiled for life. They come out perfect.

They're like really moist and tender and it doesn't take that long.

So I'll just put a bunch of baby potatoes in like a steamer basket.

And I think it's like maybe 15 minutes on high. In the Instapot.

Yes. You don't put any water. You just put a little bit of water on the bottom, maybe like less than an inch, like three quarters of an inch, the steamer basket, and then the potatoes in the steamer basket.

And then they come out perfect.

And then in terms of like a big baked potato, I know you can do those in the Instant Pot as well.

But I actually like them in the oven because I like like getting a little bit of a crust or a crackly skin on the outside.

So I usually do 400 degrees for about an hour. And I feel like that.

[: 58:47

And then the skin is like nice and crackly. And then the inside is perfectly done.

Lentil Love - Green, Red, and Black Varieties

[: 58:59

Oh, well, how can I choose a lentil? It's like choosing a child.

[: 59:09

So that's been a staple in my diet for many decades. So I still make like that green lentil stew.

And then red lentils I like because they cook so quickly. So it takes like maybe 20 minutes to break down a red lentil.

And so I make like a red lentil soup a lot with like cubed sweet potato.

And sometimes I'll dice up some red bell pepper in there, some carrot.

And I just let everything simmer for, you know, 20 to 30 minutes, 30 minutes if the potatoes are in there until everything's nice and soft.

And you can either serve it as like a chunkier soup, or you can use an immersion blender to puree it up if you need a smoother soup.

And I feel like that's what I cook when I don't know what to cook is either red lentil soup or green lentils, because they're always in my pantry.

[: 1:00:03

So there's a green, there's a red, there's a yellow.

Isn't there, is there a black? There is.

Yeah, the black lentils are nice because they retain their shape.

The other lentils tend to get mushy. Like the red lentils will fall apart completely and the green lentils get kind of mushy after they're done.

But the black lentils will maintain this perfect little sphere.

So they're great for cold salads. If you're bringing something to a potluck and you want it to look visually appealing, that with some like diced radish and some cilantro and carrot, like you can make it beautiful and colorful.

[: 1:00:45

And I feel like everyone will love it. And it's high in protein, high in fiber, high in iron.

So yeah, in our house, and I'm not exaggerating, Lauren, we probably go through, 10 cubes of extra firm tofu a week. Oh yeah.

[: 1:01:08

So talk to me about the freezing technique and why you do it.

And then what are some of the things you do with it?

Yeah. So I learned a freezing technique from my mom, who's like an OG tempeh chef, tofu chef, because like I said, we all went vegetarian when I was kids when I was a kid.

So she would take the tempeh block like straight from the store and just stick it right in the freezer. Like didn't unwrap it.

[: 1:01:40

And it just needs to freeze until solid. So usually overnight.

And then you just take it right back out and defrost it. So you can leave it in the freezer as long as you want.

But if you want to use it the next day, you know, just as soon as it's frozen solid, take it back out, let it defrost.

Once it's fully defrosted, you'll find that the liquid squeezes out a lot more easily so if you take fresh tofu and try to squeeze out the liquid by hand the tofu will probably break apart or at least you know partially break apart with pre-frozen tofu it just comes out and the tofu somehow stays intact and then i find that the texture is much better it's like a lot more um i i guess there's just more texture to it it's like more meaty i guess um for lack of a better word the cells open up yeah it becomes more porous so i think it also absorbs marinade better so I just prefer it sometimes I don't have the time to be defrosting tofu or I just don't know well enough in advance to defrost it so I work with fresh tofu too but if you have the time and you think you don't like tofu try it frozen and then defrosted first and I think it makes a big difference mm-hmm.

Creating the Perfect Stir Fry with Veggies and Tofu

[: 1:02:51

And you have a Instagram video where you're doing a stir fry and you've got like all these shredded different types of vegetables in there.

You do something like a marinade and spices.

I think you do a tofu or tempeh with it. It just looks so remarkable.

[: 1:03:17

Yeah, so stir fries are, again, I love these meals that are just like blank canvases where you don't need a recipe. That's my favorite way to cook.

And stir fries are great for that because whatever veggie you have in your fridge can probably make its way into a stir fry.

So what I usually do is I'll take my whatever it is I'm using for the non-vegetable component. A lot of people call it a protein.

[: 1:03:44

So usually what I'll do is I'll cube those up into bite-sized pieces and I'll cook them first.

And the reason for that is I don't like adding it with the veggies because everything cooks at different times.

And I feel like the tofu and tempeh won't brown the way that I like if they're just sitting in the pan with a ton of vegetables.

So I'll pan fry the tofu or tempeh first. I have like a really nice nonstick wok, but, you know, any big pan will do.

And then once it's brown to your liking, you can take it out and just set it aside on a plate and then you add in your veggies.

So you mentioned shredded veggies.

Sometimes I'll do like a shredded cabbage in there, but it doesn't have to be shredded. it. I'll do like finely chopped broccoli.

I'll do mushrooms, green beans, snow peas, shelled edamame, like whatever, you know, you would find in your Chinese food takeout is usually what I'll throw into the pan.

And then I've mentioned garlic a bunch. You can tell I'm a garlic girl.

[: 1:04:47

And then you just want to saute everything until the veggies are are crisp tender so i like them to have some bite to be like a little al dente then you add in the browned tofu or tempeh and at that point if you want you can add in a sauce so not necessary but i feel like it helps marry everything together and prevents anything from drying out so a really quick sauce that you can make is just some tamari if you have rice vinegar you can add that in some people can find mirin which is like a like an asian like sweet sweet wine um it's not like a drinking wine it's meant for cooking and you can add a little bit of that but it's not necessary, um and then some maple syrup and not a lot just a touch whisking that all together and pouring it on top along with the garlic and ginger that are already in there and that's going to make a really nice quick teriyaki type sauce oh it sounds really good yeah.

[: 1:05:50

So we take the cauliflower and just chop it up to bite size.

You don't want them to be too big because they are going in a taco after all.

And then you just put them on a sheet pan and toss them with your favorite spices, or you can just do it completely plain if you want to put a sauce on it later and I'll give you some options in a second.

And I roast them at 425 for about 25 to 30 minutes, depending on the size of the cauliflower.

And I like toss it midway to make sure that it's evenly browned, but I like it very brown.

So like I was saying before about the shiitake bacon, I do the same to the cauliflower.

I wait until it's like a few minutes away from potentially burning.

And that way the edges are like nice and crisp and it has really great texture.

It it adds a ton of flavor to do it that way.

And then if you haven't seasoned them yet, if you just did it, you know, plain cauliflower, when they come out, you can do like a buffalo sauce.

So primal kitchen makes a cleaner plant-based buffalo sauce, I think it does have some avocado oil in it.

But you could also just do like Frank's red hot if you want.

[: 1:07:02

Or you could do again, barbecue sauce, whatever your favorite, you know store-bought sauces or homemade sauce you can toss it at that point and then add it in the taco with i like a raw crunchy component so i mentioned before some slaw is great or you can do some quick pickled radishes are really nice and the pickled jalapenos so like all those like fresh crunchy type things i usually add on top with either some beans or some avocado or both and it makes a really filling, delicious taco.

Yeah. I wonder if sometime in the next decade, the cauliflower is going to become the...

[: 1:07:45

It's like, what, what can't you do with cauliflower? I think I've seen it all. So.

Apple Cinnamon Oats with Soy Milk and Maple Syrup

[: 1:07:55

Yeah. So oats are my go-to breakfast for my kids.

I'm not a huge breakfast person, but when I do eat breakfast, oats usually make their way in there.

So we like the, you know, just thick old-fashioned cut oats um because they have to be on the table pretty quickly but i love to put apple in them so when i'm simmering them on the pot i'll add some soy milk and some water so i'll do like a combination of the two to make it extra creamy and then i'll add in just like finely diced peeled chopped apples along with everything and let it simmer until the oats are done i don't time it but i think it's probably around like 10-15 minutes the apples like have have like a great like apple pie type consistency.

So they have a little bit of bite. They're not mushy, but they're not raw either.

And then we add in tons of cinnamon and sometimes we'll drizzle some maple syrup on there.

Once in a while, I'll melt in some coconut butter, which is actually just pure coconut.

There's no actual butter in there, but we don't always do that.

And so that's our go-to oat recipe.

I know you're a fan of steel cut oats. I like those too. They just take a little little longer. So maybe like a weekend oat dish. So right.

[: 1:09:12

Oh, that sounds so good. Which the kids loved. Yeah. Um.

[: 1:09:31

So I use my own plant milk when I make mashed potatoes.

And so the key is you want to boil the potatoes with some salt if you can cook with salt because it kind of inherently flavors the potatoes.

So you don't need to do much to them like when they get out of the water.

[: 1:09:57

So I really feel strongly about this.

If you want perfect consistency for your mashed potatoes, never put them in a blender and never use a food processor.

Those will get them like really gummy. They might get them smooth, but they'll be very gummy. And then a traditional potato masher will obviously give you some lumps.

So a potato ricer is a relatively inexpensive tool.

Everyone will thank you on Thanksgiving and the holidays. And it makes the potatoes into these like little strings.

And then when you mash them, they pretty much melt into each other.

Um, so it'll give you like velvet, smooth potatoes.

And then to that, I add like a homemade cashew milk.

So I'll take about a half a cup to two thirds of a cup of cashews to about a cup of water and my Vitamix.

And I'll just puree it until it's got the consistency of heavy cream.

And then you toss the potatoes with a little bit of the cream.

Um, not all of it just until it gets that perfect consistency.

And then you just season it to taste and they are pretty much perfect every time.

What's the name of that thing again? A potato, what? What potato ricer ricer?

Yeah. Yeah. It's just like this little handheld gadget.

And I don't really like to recommend single use appliances, but this is one that if you're a big mashed potato person, it's worth having on hand.

[: 1:11:14

Favorite Spices: Crushed Red Pepper, Garlic Powder, Ground Turmeric

[: 1:11:21

[: 1:11:26

I find that garlic powder is very useful when you're just looking to add extra flavor that everyone enjoys.

I feel like garlic powder is something I would bring to a desert island.

And I would say probably ground turmeric for its health benefits.

It's just an incredible spice from a health perspective.

It's a shame that it's not up there with pharmaceuticals to help people deal with pain, illness, preventing illness.

Wellness and you don't need a lot, just like a quarter teaspoon a day with some black pepper to help absorb it.

It also adds a gorgeous golden hue to your food.

And it's just traditionally used in things like curries and dolls and things like that.

So if you're into traditional Asian cooking or Middle Eastern cooking, I feel like turmeric will, should make its way onto your spice rack.

Do you ever put it in the oatmeal for the, for the girls with the apples or no? No, but that's a good idea. It actually hadn't occurred to me, but I will try that.

I'm just wondering if the flavor profile of it is too overwhelming where the girls would go, sorry, mom.

Well, they're used to me throwing turmeric and everything.

[: 1:12:49

You just have to market it the right way. Right. For sure.

Perfection is the Enemy of the Good

[: 1:13:02

Yes. And love to understand your take on that.

Yeah. So I love that quote. It's not my original quote, of course, but I try to live by that because in a lot of areas of my life, I used to strive for perfect.

And then I would end up just not even finishing what I started because it wasn't perfect, or I would just not even attempt it because it wasn't perfect.

And it's just such a shame because we torture ourselves trying to achieve the standard, which isn't possible.

And then instead of doing something, we do nothing.

And I think that can apply to lots of things.

I think diet is something that a lot of people struggle with.

People say I could never be vegan because they're envisioning being a rigid vegan forever and never, you know, having a single taste again of like their favorite food.

And I think, first of all, you might surprise yourself and you might lose the craving for that food, which is what happened to me.

But isn't it better to move in that direction and start adding in these health supportive foods that can help you live longer and feel better and be more vibrant and feel better than you think you could actually ever feel rather than just do absolutely nothing?

And I just think it's a shame people don't even give things a chance because they think they can't achieve this certain standard.

[: 1:14:24

And I've gotten that way. For example, this is a stupid little example, but like with Wordle at night, sometimes it will kill me.

I'm like trying to do New York times Wordle and I'll just be, I'll spend like, you know, and I'm like, you know what? It's okay.

And if you don't, if you don't get it and you ruin your streak of, you know, 50, it's okay.

And so I'm trying to, I'm trying to lighten up on stuff like that. Totally.

And I mean, like the The example I gave before with meditation, I tried for a decade to meditate and I just couldn't do it because I thought I had to be sitting silently for like a half hour and reach nirvana and be this enlightened person and calm all the time.

And I just was like, I'm never going to be that person. And then when I was kind of forced to deal with my stress, I was like, okay, let me just start really small.

And I did five minute guided meditations, which...

You know, is not the way I would have like thought I should start meditating, but it ended up being perfect.

And it kind of led me into, you know, a different, you know, habit that I thought I could never have. So.

You mentioned that you had a, you've had a love, hate, hate relationship with exercise.

Yeah. You also have said you have a love, hate relationship with social media.

The Love-Hate Relationship with Social Media

[: 1:15:42

With social media, I think the reason why I love it is I feel like it's my way to connect with people who care about the same things as me.

So it's hard to find people in a community, especially if you live in the suburbs that care deeply about all the same things as you.

So I feel like on social media, you can connect with lots of people who are into your hobbies or your passions or whatever your interests.

So I love it for that reason. I feel feel very connected. And I feel like I can also, I have a voice there.

I have an audience of people who are interested in what I have to say.

And I'm really grateful for that.

The downside to social media is it's just the competition never ends.

There's always someone out there who's seemingly doing it better than you, who's cooking more beautiful food, whose home looks nicer, who, you know, is whatever, exercising more.

And so I feel like if you fall into a comparison trap, it can be a really dangerous place.

And it's also just a time suck. It, you know, I'll lay in bed, and I'll get in bed at 10 o'clock.

And then at: 1045

I'm getting better. I'm finding more balance, but it's it's a challenge.

Let me ask you this. Mountains and lakes or oceans and beaches?

Mountains and lakes, hands down. No question.

[: 1:17:08

And I just I just there's something about the woods. I've always been drawn to the woods and lakes are just so gorgeous and quiet. quiet and I feel like you hear the birds and all that stuff.

And I, I love beaches and, and you know, the ocean too, but it doesn't really compare for me. Yeah.

And you have two rescue dogs. Is that right? Yes. They're wrestling outside my door as we speak. And what are their names?

Rosita and Bruno. So we got Bruno at the height of Encanto's popularity and I have two little girls. So we had to name our dog after Bruno from Encanto.

So, yeah, so they're great dogs.

Wonderful. Well, this has been a really wonderful conversation.

I'm so glad that we bumped into each other at the event the other, the other night.

Lauren, where can people find you and all the great work you're doing?

Sure. So you can find me on Instagram at Lauren underscore Kretzer.

You can find me on Substack. My Substack is called Plant Magic and it's linked actually on my Instagram. It's also linked on my website, which is www.laurenkretzer.com.

So I write often. I write weekly on Substack and I'm posting regularly on Instagram.

So those are the two places I'm most active.

Expressing Gratitude and Inspiration

[: 1:18:35

You and your family are huge inspirations of mine and your podcast is incredible.

So I'm just honored to be here.

Well, my pleasure. Can you give me a virtual fist bump on the way out?

Of course. All right. Thank you so much. There you go. PLANTSTRONG. Boom.

Thank you, Rick. Thank you.

Lauren's mission: Nourishing bodies with plant foods

[: 1:19:00

She writes, As a result of my personal health journey, I'm extra passionate about plant foods and their ability to nourish our bodies from the inside out.

It's my mission to help others lead lives that are free of health problems and chronic disease while still enjoying vitality, joy, and abundance.

It all starts in the kitchen.

I couldn't agree more, Lauren.

I'll be sure to put a link to her resources in the show notes of this episode.

And as always, thanks so much for listening today. And remember to always keep it PLANTSTRONG.

How to contact the podcast and leave a voicemail

[: 1:19:50

Again, that's speakpipe, one word, S-P-E-A-K-P-I-P-E dot com forward slash PLANTSTRONG.

The PLANTSTRONG podcast team includes Carrie Barrett, Laurie Kortowich, and Ami Mackey. If you like what you hear, do us a favor and share the show with your friends and loved ones.

And you can always leave a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

And while you're there, make sure to hit that follow button so that you never miss an episode.

As always, this and every episode of the PLANTSTRONG Podcast is dedicated to my incredible parents, Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn Jr.

And Anne Crile Esselstyn.

Thanks so much for listening.

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