In this episode, Katelyn and Grace delve into their conversation with Isaac Kramer about the complexities of the state voting system. The dialogue shifts to broader concerns about misinformation and disinformation, especially surrounding election integrity and media responsibility. They touch on the impact of supporting local and state races. Katelyn shares insights from Georgia Judge Robert McBurney's comments on abortion rights, followed by Grace introducing Chipotle's new technology to efficiently process avocados. The episode wraps up with reflections on personal dynamics and the importance of curiosity.

00:00 Introduction and Personal Catch-Up

00:49 Guest Introduction: Isaac Kramer

01:06 Understanding the Election System

02:59 Challenges and Solutions in Voting

05:17 Disinformation and Media Responsibility

17:12 Personal Reflections and Curiosity

19:33 Hurricane Helene Aftermath

22:12 Abortion Ban Overturned in Georgia

24:43 Chipotle's Avocado Innovation

25:59 Conclusion and Sign-Off

Copyright 2024 Grace Cowan

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Hi, Katelyn.

Hey, Grace. How are you?

You don't really love 4 PM, which is when we record this.

I was texting you earlier and just saying afternoons are normally my think time. I'm not a morning person, so I'm not an afternoon for, I don't know. I just. spending the day the way I like to spend the day.

Noted. I'm learning all these things about how to manipulate Katelyn. This is so great. Okay, so this week's guest was Isaac Kramer, voting, aficionado for Charleston County. What did you learn?

Whoa, in no way, shape, or form does this represent how I feel about Isaac at all. I don't know Isaac, but my He's a lovely man. Oh, he seems lovely, but I was so overwhelmed by the detail of information and the bureaucracy associated with the state election commission board is appointed by the governor because there is no secretary of state that runs the South Carolina election. Then under them, there's another board at their counties, and all of them are picked by legislative delegations, but they are actually also then appointed by the governor. And I was like, you know that. GIF where the woman is like doing all the math and she's like, that is how I felt. .

Even doing the interview, it was so hard for me to follow and, I was like, I'm, I just asked the question and I'm really paying attention. I'm super focused. Most people listening to this are gonna be driving in the car or walking or doing something else and I was like, whoa, because it is super confusing and it's different. Like, In Georgia, if you remember Georgia during the 2020 election, it was Brad Raffensperger the secretary of state. He's the guy. He's the guy and it's something like what went down in Georgia happened in South Carolina. There's not just one guy that does it.

I couldn't tell whether or not I felt like I got more, comfortable or more confused and thus nervous, the longer I listened I had some highs and lows. I was like, oh, okay, there's a checks and balance there. So that made sense to me. And I was like, wait, but then that's just another layer for them to be able to, Manipulate and then when he got to the point about security and how well, South Carolina does the statewide elections. I was definitely impressed. Granted, he's talking about his own job. But I believe him. I believe that the South Carolina state elections are free and fair and that they are doing everything they possibly can to record, everyone's votes.

Okay. So, I think that to your point of how many things. The election board has to do as far as elections having so many every year. It's such a waste of money

and the point about voter fatigue, so between the waste of money and the voter fatigue, I mean, yeah, he wasn't kidding. Other states don't have this many elections. So what are some solutions other states are using?

So one of them is ranked choice voting and I think that's going to be a hard sell. Because it's math, right? For real, it makes sense.

Are you saying South Carolinians can't do math?

I can't do math. I don't like, I just ordered a book on it because I had lunch with someone this week who was a big proponent of it. And I was like, okay, I'll buy a book about it and I will read about it and I will get back to you on my feelings about it. But my first impression when someone says that to me is that sounds really complicated. There are states that use it. One of the things that proponents say it's so good for not only in eliminating having 20 elections a year is also that you eliminate the extremes.

Exactly. And it forces collaboration. Because you have to form coalitions. You see it a lot in Europe, the ranked choice voting, and it really forces people to work together, which the average American, the average South Carolinian is looking for. We are looking for compromise because none of us are benefiting from this dichotomy that has reared its ugly head for the last 20 ish years.

I, this election, I think is already feeling like it's having the groundwork laid to be. Just a total shit show. Listening to, rhetoric that is going around about ballots will be stolen and dead people will be voting and, already it's going to be a super close race, toss up states, Arizona, Nevada, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Georgia. The presidential margins could be even closer, and I just feel like there is so much room for misinformation and disinformation. And, my guess is that Trump will claim victory the night of October 5th and many of those states won't have all of their ballots counted and it will keep going up and down and up and down and changing over who has the higher percentage. And once news is out that Trump says one thing, then his believers will believe him. Then we get into the same place that we were with just so much chaos.

And I think the media bears some responsibility here. In my opinion, the media is the reason we're at the place we're at with election results. They make it into such a production and fanfare. With, What's His Face on CNN was the first one to do the sort of movable maps. And listen, I'm not saying that I don't sit there and watch, I do, but I also understand that I want the real results and I want them to come when they're ready. And so I don't need a breaking news update every 10 minutes if it's not the right information. And I don't think. All news channels are fully news. I think some of them are entertainment and I, I worry about ratings.

One of the things that I think we should note too, is when we can start counting mail in ballots in South Carolina, because many states and particularly some of these swing states, Their laws don't allow offices to begin opening mail in ballots until 7 a. m. on election day. And if they have a high volume of mail in ballots, that takes a long time. And As we know, that's basically what happened in 2020. I think it was Michigan where Trump said, I won this election because he said, I went to bed and I was up and I woke up. And I lost and that, that's where he thought that all these fake ballots came in.

And I think this is the point that we should be making is that many of these states are not allowed to open those absentee ballots until 7 a. m. And so it takes much longer for them to get it counted. There's a difference between disinformation and misinformation, right? Misinformation is when you misspeak versus disinformation when you put something out that, you know, is actually incorrect. I feel like putting out a fire hose of information, like Trump does. It just makes people become so overwhelmed with trying to figure out what's real.

Like I said, Isaac clearly has a deep understanding of how the voting system works and all the checks and balances. But me, I don't. As a political junkie, listening to that was really tough for me to sit and actually understand that process. And so if I, who loves to study these things, I'm not really interested in hearing it through to the end. How can we expect the average everyday South Carolinian or American to understand that process? And so when someone, puts out that disinformation, it's easy to accept because it's easy to understand.

And that is the reason why education at a civic level early in life is so important because then you walk away with that information and you can look at somebody who's saying that and at least question, maybe not outright disagree, but at least question what they're saying.

And also it's boring. Even if that was at the high school level being taught, which it probably is, I slept through all of those classes, , I studied for the test, I had my flashcards, and then out of my brain, like it wasn't until I became an adult and really started paying attention, I mean, half of the stuff that he said I didn't even know. And also because all of that voting structure is different in every single state. Every state so every time you move to a new state, if you do, when are you going to be like, okay, I'm going to sit down and learn what the voting structure is in the state of Montana or the state of Florida?

Grace, I can barely get to the DMV to change my address on my license.

I know it's so crazy. That's what makes this time with disinformation so dangerous. These things are really complicated and we are in a moment where there is so much disinformation that gets put out. We are tuned out because it's like, I cannot listen to it anymore.

It's just too much.

There are theories about this exact thing. Heather Cox Richardson did a really interesting piece. She's a famous historian. There is a part in the autobiography of Adolf Hitler called Kampf, where people are more likely to believe a giant lie than a little one, because they themselves are willing to tell small lies in their own lives, but they would be ashamed to resort to a large scale falsehood. And since they couldn't conceive of telling colossal untruths, they would not believe that others could distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts, which proved this to be so maybe brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation.

They're banking on this. They are banking on people not being able to comprehend that what they're being told is that big lie. Even so much as the relief efforts in Hurricane Helene. Oh my god, the conspiracy theory that this is, this storm was made up and that They're now just bulldozing over people so that they can sell the land for some mineral extraction and that FEMA is preventing people from going in and helping other people and that Joe Biden is using money to help with the migrant situation. Complete falsities.

And listen, there's a Steve Bannon quote also, where he said the real opposition is the media and the way to deal with them is to flood the zone with shit. Keeping listeners constantly trying to defend what is real from what is not destroys their ability to make sense of the world. Many people turn to a strong man who promises to create order. This is one of the most critical things because it's not like this is some outlier that's saying these crazy things. I was at, a concert this weekend and I was sitting with, three younger ish guys in their late twenties, early thirties. And they brought up. The Navy could impact weather systems and that they, they kept saying they were manipulating weather patterns and systems, to damage Republican leaning parts of the country particularly in North Carolina.

Because North Carolina has a mine that has an element that go into chips and the government needs to control that mind. That is the result of people like Tucker Carlson throwing out these wild theories and making it seem like, there's a chance that it's true. It is so dangerous because there now is a large group of people that Trump speaks to And that believe what he is saying. The things that he has said over the last few weeks are dangerous and when it comes to this election, if, and when, which he likely will say that he has won before everything is in, it is going to create major chaos.

Last week, our whole nother thing was look for the helpers. This is such a devastating situation. They are still pulling bodies out of the mud there are still missing people. There are people who need to have medicine walked in to towns via donkey People are still dying because of what happened during Hurricane Helene. But you have leaders in power with platforms who are intentionally. Separating us during a time of crisis. Those are not helpers.

There's a Mark Twain quote that goes something like, fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities. Truth isn't. And, that's the best way I can sum up what is happening right now.

Because if people were sitting in the truth and understood their candidates and their platform, they would understand that the anger that they feel towards FEMA right now is not even going to be relevant should the Republican candidate win, because in Project 2025, the Heritage Foundation has advocated to get rid of FEMA, so you won't even have an agency to be mad at, because there will not be a FEMA.

That is for another time 2025. We have a deep dive to go into that oh, my word. So 1 thing that's come up this week that I think is interesting too, is how many text messages are you getting a day? Of people asking you for money,

I have started saying stop to a lot of them. So I think on average, I probably was getting 3 or 4 a day. But it's still a lot.

So I feel like that has become the most worthless way to advertise because I haven't said stop to any of them. I get probably 15 a day and I'm on the Trump campaign one. I'm on. All of the Republicans and all the Democrats. I feel like my phone just all day is like blowing up with text messages saying sorry to bug you. Is this a good time? Hey, it's Jon Tester. I'm in the race of a lifetime. Oh my word. And then the Trump ones, the packs for Trump are really unbelievable. And people ask me a lot, where they should donate. I feel like it's the state races are the most important.

Especially at this point in time, big federal races, particularly the presidential races, have more money than they know what to do with right now. I saw the political ad spending in the U S by funding source. Democrat campaigns is like, Almost a billion dollars outside groups are spending a billion dollars for a total as of right now, 1. 8 billion dollars. The Republicans are at 1. 3 billion. It's a total waste.

I think so, too. And the reason why is mostly because we are only 1 seat away from a super majority here in South Carolina. And so paying attention to what's happening in the state Senate, in the house as well, it deeply impacts our day to day lives.

And county council races are super important. School board races. Those are the people that have a much harder time collecting money. And I feel like those are the people, if you really want to make an impact as a political consumer, give to those local, state and county races. Those are the big ones. It makes a difference what your schools look like and who's making the decisions and county council controls, usually the biggest budget of all talk about a complicated. Now, I feel like we're getting into social studies class here, Katelyn.

Maybe.

Think clearly listening to Isaac, I need it. You asked me, last week, this question and it like has stuck in my head all week. And so I felt like I should answer you. If I've always been inquisitive about people. Yeah. I remember asking. I do.

Yeah.

I started thinking about it like when I was a kid, my grandparents were all really nosy. My grandmother would look out the window and she'd be like, Oh, the neighbors, that milk man is at their house again. I wonder what's going on. Like she was so nosy. But I think nosy implies that you want to find out information to harm someone, I'm more curious. I have this belief that the universe or God or whatever you want to call it puts people into your orbit for a reason.

And your job in this life is to find out why you have come into contact with each other. The best way that you can do that. Is to ask them questions, you need to find out what you're supposed to learn from them. And the only way you can do that is by asking a bunch of questions. So there's the answer to that question. That's amazing. I had to think on it a little bit.

I do think the word I used was curious.

You did use the word but as I started thinking about it, I was like, Grandma Dot was super nosy. So I'm going to go with that's what I am.

It's like I said, it's a quality that I have had to learn. Curiosity for me wasn't necessarily something that I grew up with. And so I really admire it in you and enjoy the way you ask Questions about the world,

My husband does not enjoy my curiosity so much. He likes to do what he calls the Irish exit of parties. He likes to be the first one there. And as soon as we get there, he wants to know when we're leaving. I like to do what I call the Italian exit, which is you stay forever. You talk to everybody and you get everybody's deets.

I think we're married to the same person.

Ana doesn't like to stay at a party.

No, she does not. In fact, getting her to the party is the first hurdle. Keeping her at the party is the second hurdle. And once we've gotten past that, it's time to start all over again

My husband had a guy that interned for him when summer. And at the end of the summer, they came over, for like dinner. They were going back to school. In 20 minutes, I learned more about them than he did through the entire summer sitting in an office next to them. Okay. Anything else about the hurricane? My mom lives in Orlando right now. She's just trying to figure out what she's going to do.

And it's

yeah,

it's too soon.

The amount of destruction from an emotional side is beyond. And then the amount of financial destruction is also just unbelievable. I saw something that said they didn't think they would have. I 40 from Waynesville up into the mountains, finished until September of 2025. So a year away. And that's a major artery of I 40, you have to take that to get pretty much anywhere going Northwest out of South Carolina, other than like 85. It just is amazing. The massive destruction just unbelievable.

And I think that was my point to my mom about evacuation. there's this desire for people to stay home and to be with their things and to know what's going on at the house. And I said, mom, it could be fine or it could be a disaster, but the resources right now that we have as a country are spread so thin, that to me is what makes me nervous.

So I was on the phone with some friends that live in Florida and they basically were like, we're not leaving because we're afraid we won't be able to get back on the island if we leave. We know living in South Carolina, what it feels like when they tell you to evacuate, because it feels like a lot of those times it winds up barely even raining.

And then some things get damaged that you could have prevented from getting damaged. If you would say they're like, there's a lot that goes through your mind before you are willing to up and leave your house. But I will say we stayed. For one that we shouldn't have and it changed from like a two to a three in the middle of the night when it hit and it was really scary to be in our house and so I would say go ahead and leave.

That's my advice too. And I'm not telling my mom anything she doesn't know, but it's just a matter of making that decision, sitting in all that traffic

and you know, if you haven't lived in South Carolina long, ask people. That were here during Hugo, in the entire state, people in Columbia felt Hugo almost as badly as people in Charleston and in Isle of Palms. That was a massive storm and people were scared to death of storms after that for a long time. And I feel like we've gotten a little complacent because we haven't really had a super doozy. Myrtle beach had a bad one, but. Anyway. What you got for your whole nother thing?

I'm just going to expand it even more because last week, Georgia had their six week abortion ban overturned by a judge.

They did.

And let me tell you, he had a couple things to say. Oh, I haven't read what he said. Do tell. These are actual quotes. Women are not some piece of collectively owned community property, the disposition of which is decided by a majority vote. Forcing a woman to carry an unwanted, not yet viable fetus to term violates her constitutional rights to liberty and privacy, even taking into consideration whatever bundle of rights the not yet viable fetus might have.

Whoa. What?

Whoa, hold on. It is not for a legislator, a judge, or a commander from The Handmaid's Tale to tell these women what to do with their bodies during this period when the fetus cannot survive outside the womb.

Where did this guy, what? Who is this judge?

Judge Robert McBurney. When the state's interest in protecting unborn life is compelling, until that life can be sustained by the state and not solely by the woman compelled by the act to do the state's work, the balance favors the rights of the woman. That is the most compelling argument I have ever heard on why abortion from a legal perspective, right? Should be legal. The balance of rights favors the woman. I my mind was blown.

Mine is blown right now. Katelyn. Holy smokes.

Yeah. Yeah.

So I think that is the most, that just blew my mind to take it from, you cannot compel a woman to carry something that you cannot care for as a state, that is, of course. Of course. Yeah. There you go. There it is. Put into words. He's like a genius songwriter.

I know. I, when I read that quote, I thought to myself, where has he been for the last two years? So we'll see, we'll see what ends up happening.

Okay, my whole nother thing feels a little bit ridiculous now that you've just said that.

Listen, I feel like I always bring a really intense whole nother thing, and you are like keeping it light and ending on sunshine and lemonade, grace.

I'm going to let all the women in South Carolina know about the avocado. Chipotle is testing a new machine that it says can cut and peel an avocado in under 30 seconds. No. This machine recognizes variability in the fruit and automatically adjusts itself to accommodate the size of the avocados being loaded. How about that?

I think that's equally important.

I just feel like Chipotle should never run out of guacamole because they are about to implement this avocado that's going to eliminate, one of the top ways that people go into the emergency room is with an avocado cut in middle of your hand.

Do you know that they were trying to figure out if they could genetically modify an avocado not to have a pit because of that?

Isn't there a specific term in the emergency room for avocado hand? There's a term. Anyway, I'm excited. I hope that someday we are able to purchase an auto Cato. That would make me very happy I'm all in. I love some Chipotle. Me too. Me too. Extra guacamole, please. Since I know it's not a difficult pasta. It's not going to hold up Suzanne behind you. There we go. Have a great weekend, everybody. And that's all this do for today. We'll talk to you next week.