Investigative reporters for the LA Times, Melody Gutierrez and Alene Tchekmedyian, discuss the findings of their investigation into the puppy mill pipeline to California, the cruelty and the fraud. From the LA Times:

• An L.A. Times investigation found that many dogs sold as California-bred come from mass breeders in the Midwest.
• Unsuspecting pet buyers can face heartache and thousands of dollars in vet bills when their puppies get sick or die.
• California is destroying veterinary records that provide details about a pet’s origin and health status.

Help us by sharing, liking, and rating this episode! And visit the LA Times for the full report.

To reach the LA Times' Pets for Profit page, visit https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-09-12/pets-for-profit-an-in-depth-investigation

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Hi, and welcome to the Animal Welfare Junction.

2

This is your host, Dr.

3

G, and our music is written

and produced by Mike Sullivan.

4

Today, this is a really interesting

article that was published in the

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LA Times, and it's a really good

timing because we just recently

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spoke with Shelby Bobosky about the

puppy mill pipeline to Texas, and now

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we're going to be talking about the

puppy mill pipeline to California.

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So from the LA Times, we have

two investigative reporters.

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We have Melody Gutierrez

and Alene Tchekmedyian.

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Welcome to The Junction.

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Thank you for being here.

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Thanks.

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Thank you for having us.

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So, uh, Melody, do you want to start by

telling us about your background and where

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you come from and how you ended up at the

LA Times as an investigative reporter?

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Melody Gutierrez: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

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So I've been a reporter for over

two decades and started off with

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a small town newspaper in 29

palms in Southern California.

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and worked my way up.

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I've worked at the Sacramento Bee, the

San Francisco Chronicle, and ultimately,

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um, have been a reporter at the L.

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A.

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Times now.

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Um, I've covered politics, healthcare

politics, all sorts of, uh, animal related

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legislation over the years, um, and

actually started off as a sports reporter.

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So I've covered the gamut of any kind of

reporting and have been an investigative

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reporter for about two years now.

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DrG: Awesome.

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How about you, Alene?

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Alene Tchekmedyian: Yeah,

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And before that, I had also worked at

smaller community papers in Glendale

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in Los Angeles County and Burbank.

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Um, and when I joined the times, I

also have done a range of papers.

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Topics in terms of be coverage.

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I started off doing breaking news.

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And then I've also covered courts,

law enforcement and criminal justice.

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DrG: Awesome.

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And if you're watching this on

YouTube, she is not hiding from us.

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She's just not able to share her video.

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So, um, so let's start

talking about the, about this.

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What, what drove you to investigate this?

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Melody Gutierrez: We actually started off

working on a completely different story,

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um, so our entry into this was a little

bit different and so we were looking at

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how could we possibly look, uh, look at

the number of dogs coming into California

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and while talking to, um, Mindy Callison

at Bailing Out Benji, she had mentioned

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that there are these records called

Certificates of Veterinary Inspection.

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And that she had actually been looking

at him for California because, you

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know, she had seen that there were

these dogs disappearing, um, into

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California and what she meant by

that was, you know, the records, the

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certificates of veterinary inspection

were listing fake names, fake addresses.

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And she couldn't figure out

where these dogs were going.

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And so that was part of what like

drove us to start looking at, you know,

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well, where are these dogs going and

what can we possibly determine, um,

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not only just about like those dogs,

but as we started going and trying to

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get these records, we realized like

one, it's not easy because California

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deletes these records or there's no

way of getting them in California.

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And when we started to go to other

states and start analyzing, we ended

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up counting 88, 000 dogs coming into

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2018, and, you know, started to

see a lot of trends in that data.

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DrG: One of the things that our

listeners may not realize is that

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there is a law against selling animals

for retail in California, right?

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Can you, can one of you explain

a little bit about that?

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Alene Tchekmedyian: Yeah, so

actually, California was the 1st

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state to implement that type of law.

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And in 2017, they, uh, passed this law

to ban the sale of cats and dogs and

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rabbits, I think, in, uh, pet stores.

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And so in order to get a dog from a pet

store, it had to be a rescue or a dog

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from a shelter and they can have adoption

events, but you couldn't buy commercially

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bred dogs from pet stores in California.

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And they strengthened those

laws over over the years.

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Um, you know, there was some issues with

dogs from commercially bred facilities

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being passed off as rescues and so

they change the law again to close that

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loophole and, that was kind of a big part

of our, our investigation because we found

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that, the unintended consequence of those

laws was sort of pushing this market, the

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puppy trade in California underground.

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DrG: So the dogs that you were, that

we were looking into, um, basically

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what you're saying is that they

were not being sold by pet stores.

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They were being sold directly to

individuals or were there some

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that were ending up in pet stores?

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Alene Tchekmedyian: We found that

there were actually brokers like

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middlemen that kind of were substituting

for pet stores in California.

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And this was like a totally unregulated

market because at pet stores, you could,

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you know, potentially see where the

dog came from, you know, on the, cage,

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there's like, probably a cage card with

some information, um, but the brokers

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that we identified in our reporting,

were getting dogs from out of state.

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And then many of them were posing

as breeders, or saying that

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they bred the dogs themselves.

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And passing them off as locally bred,

you know, like I'm a small home breeder.

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These dogs live in my home with me.

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They're spoiled.

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Um, but they were actually being

born at mass facility, mass

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breeding facilities out of state.

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DrG: And these are brokers, like the,

these are people that live in California.

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Alene Tchekmedyian: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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DrG: Yeah, basically, I mean, for,

for our listeners that do not quite

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understand how this whole thing works

is usually you have a breeder who is

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the individual that is conducting the

breeding, but then we have the brokers,

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which tend to be the individuals that

go from point A to point B, right?

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So they, they go and pick up the

animals from the breeder, and then

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they take them to the destination

where they're going to be sold.

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Um, so what is it that you found out

as you started looking into this?

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Melody Gutierrez: We found that

there were a lot of the same

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names popping up over and over.

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So, you know, in the absence of

a pet store being able to sell

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in bulk, there are people who

kind of took over that market.

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Um, and these are people, like Alene

said, is like, you know, some of them, we

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were going on the websites and it's, you

know, somebody who very much is saying,

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you know, on a breeding website that they

are a breeder of this particular type of

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dog and, you know, they had a steady flow

of dogs available, puppies available.

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In some cases, you know, it was somebody

who would turn and sell them on Craigslist

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or Facebook or, you know, other places

like social media type of places.

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But you were seeing it was

the same names in the story.

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And so we have about, in our

analysis, we were looking at people

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who sold more than 80 dogs, like

who had imported more than 80 dogs.

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Um, you know, those are primarily puppies.

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That's just what the market is, um,

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So while our California's law

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delayed until 2019, uh, 2019 was

the first year it was effective.

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And so when we started looking at

these names, you know, there were the

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same people who were really kind of

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the primary importers of dogs.

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There's still a lot of people who

like will import one dog or two dogs.

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That's for themselves.

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But when we're looking at like

bulk purchases like this, it was

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definitely like this is their business.

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DrG: And from what I understand, like

some of your findings were not just

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necessarily about the illegality of

what they're doing, but the condition

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of the animals themselves, right?

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So what did you find as far as like

the, the problems with the transport?

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Alene Tchekmedyian: Well,

some of the conditions start

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from the breeding facility.

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You know, a lot of these breeding

facilities are USDA, which

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conducts regular inspections.

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And so those inspection

reports are available online.

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And there's also like, you know,

more detailed investigative reports

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that you can get through FOIA

request to the federal government.

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We reviewed some of those records as well.

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Um, and some of the conditions of the

breeding facilities that we highlighted

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it that we're sending dogs to California.

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Are just, you know, they have, um,

violation after violation for not,

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you know, getting dogs with illnesses.

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Medical care quickly enough, um, you

know, there's like, open there, there's

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videos and photos from these inspections

and from these complaint investigations

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with dogs with untreated ear infections

or open wounds on their feet, because

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they live on, you know, um, wire crates.

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Um, and so that was pretty startling

to see for us, the conditions of

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some of these facilities and the

violations that continue to come and

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that they're cited for and allowed

to continue to operate after that.

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DrG: Yeah, so basically, I mean, they

separate these, these puppies from

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their mom at a very early age and they

have to, legally, they have to wait

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until they're eight weeks of age, but

realistically, I mean, they can falsify

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records and make the puppies be born at

a different time, like, even even the,

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the records can be mishandled to, to be

able to sell an animal at a younger age.

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And these dogs are, are very vulnerable.

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I mean, they, we're talking about

tiny infant puppies that who knows

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what the, you know, if they've been

eating properly, having proper water,

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nutrition, medication, a lot of these

breeders just do their own vaccines.

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They do their own treatments for things.

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And then they're taking all of these

puppies with vulnerable immune systems

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and shoving them into a vehicle and

then transporting them for, you know,

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like so many miles and miles and miles.

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Where, where are the, the most

common places where you saw these

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animals were being bred, uh, to

be transported to California?

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Melody Gutierrez: We're definitely seeing,

I mean, Midwest, um, which is, you know,

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where our concentration definitely is

for larger mass breeding facilities.

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But what actually surprised

us was the number in Ohio.

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Um, that has been a number, you know,

most states, we saw a decrease since the

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law went into effect, um, for, you know,

places that are mass breeding facilities,

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they want to sell in bulk, right?

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Like they're, that's their business

model is to sell the puppies in bulk.

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They don't want to sell.

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Individually to consumers, that's

not typically their model for

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some of these larger facilities.

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They can sell to the broker

who could then do that.

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But for the most part, like you were

seeing these numbers decline other

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than Ohio, which we saw, you know,

quite a large increase in the number of

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puppies coming from Ohio into California

in the aftermath of the law change.

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Um, but, you know, I think to your

point on like how they're getting

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to California, the transportation

part is like incredibly fascinating.

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And we did.

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You know, when we went to the

Midwest, we were going to these

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veterinary clinics, um, and knocking

on the door of breeding facilities

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and trying to see for ourselves.

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Right.

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And it's not the, uh, open door

policy that, uh, you might hope.

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Um, but when we were watching the white

vans pull up to veterinary clinics and,

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you know, you're seeing, like, even in

the records, how many documents are signed

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per day for puppies just for California.

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Like it's.

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It's, you know, obvious that like this is

a health certificate, but the, you know,

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it did make us question like, you know,

what does this exam look like if they're

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able to get through that many puppies

and put them in these transport vans?

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It's a, you know, from Missouri to

California is a two day straight drive.

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Driving partners, uh, drive straight

through, drive back, you know,

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there were just so many questions

about, like, how that process works.

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And you're right, like, for a

vulnerable small puppy to go from,

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uh, you know, in the case of a, uh,

a bad breeding facility, then to a

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transport for two days into California,

and then when they get here, and,

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you know, where are they being kept?

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Because that's one of the things that

we were looking at in this investigation

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is, um, You know, without, um, with these

records not being readily available,

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there really is no one checking to see

where they're ending up and how, what

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the conditions are at the places that,

you know, that are selling these dogs.

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And in one case that we highlighted,

it was a very hot garage where

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animals were clearly suffering.

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DrG: You know, we have, there are, there

are laws for like livestock that they can

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only be transported for a certain amount

of time and then they have to be fed and

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watered and they have to be exercised.

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And with these puppies being in these

vans, which I'm assuming they're just

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unmarked vans, there's nobody that's

going to be making sure that these

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puppies are being given any food or water.

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I'm sure that they're not getting

taken out of the cages and exercised

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or being allowed to, to move around.

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Um, so they're, Most likely sitting in

their own filth in whatever condition

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these vehicles are for, you know, you

said two days from Missouri and then

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add another, uh, what, 16 hours or so

from Ohio, if they're coming from here.

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Melody Gutierrez: Yeah, it's definitely

an interesting thing to look at.

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Like, and I know transporters are, you

know, typically, I think, um, USDA.

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Certified and I know

there are inspections.

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It doesn't mean that there's an

inspection, obviously, of every van

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taking off from those, uh, those hubs,

which is really also another interesting

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thing to watch is like these like

vans pulling in on like delivery days.

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And like, it's it's a well oiled

machine in certain communities in the

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Midwest that one of the places that we

highlighted West Point, Iowa, you know,

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we use this statistic that there are,

you know, more breeding dogs than people.

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Like, it's just, there was a really

startling, um, fact there, like, that

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it's clearly a very prominent business

in that, like, small community.

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DrG: As I have been looking

into puppy mills and, and these

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individuals who are definitely not

breeding for, For the health and

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for the betterment of the breed.

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It's literally all for profit.

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I have seen a lot of these very high

volume breeders and brokers that

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are coming from Iowa and they're

just, you know, picking up animals

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from all over the place and then

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taking them to, to different locations

and when, and yeah, when you go

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into the USDA, it's very difficult

to navigate the USDA system, partly

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because of how it's set up, but then

also because some of these breeders

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and brokers just change their name.

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So if they get enough issues,

then they just change their name

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and they're, it's a clean slate.

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So when you look into their,

their past history, you're not

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going to find any, any problems.

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Right.

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Um, It's going to make it really difficult

to, to look, you know, to, to find and be

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able to report and do something about it.

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Melody Gutierrez: Yeah.

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We saw an example of a person who

essentially, uh, Michelle Kruse,

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um, which is a last name that's

pretty popular in, uh, Iowa because

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of Steve Kruse, who's a large, um,

uh, you know, puppy mill operator.

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But in the paperwork, we couldn't figure

out a name change to Julia Nichols.

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And like, ultimately we had it confirmed,

like that's her middle name and maiden

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name or something along those lines.

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But, you know, just, we couldn't,

we thought those were two

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people for a really long time.

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Alene Tchekmedyian: Also the

address is listed on their licenses.

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They are allowed to use like

a mailing address or a PO box.

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And so we found a case in Indiana

where there's like 16 breeders that

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are using the same two suites in a

shopping center that's nowhere near

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like, well, we don't know where the

facilities are, but it's definitely not

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the address listed on their license.

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So it's hard to figure out where these

facilities are operating or under what

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conditions because of that as well.

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DrG: You would think that the license

is going to have the facility address.

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Because how, how does the

USDA know where to go?

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Alene Tchekmedyian: I mean, I think the

inspectors have the facility address

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because they have to, you know, go there

and conduct their regular inspections,

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but what's available to the public

is whatever address they're allowed

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to put on, you know, their license.

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And so for the public, it's, there's

kind of a lack of transparency there.

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Melody Gutierrez: And definitely,

but when you're trying to

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find their inspection reports.

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And you're seeing like the same

names or they're using a new

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company name without an address.

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It's really hard to figure out.

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Is this the right person?

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And am I looking at the

right inspection report?

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Um, for this individual, because it's

just it's sometimes very difficult

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to understand, like, when, you know,

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um, you know, licensed by the USDA

of breeders, transporters, and like

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being able to narrow down, like, you

know, which person with the last name

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Smith, am I looking at, um, you have to

have an address to really confirm it.

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DrG: What were some of the issues that

you found on the USDA reports from

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some of these breeders and brokers that

were, that you were seeing commonly in

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your, in your, In your investigation.

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Melody Gutierrez: Yeah, I think it's

one like thing to like read through the

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inspections, and it feels completely

different when you see the pictures

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and videos, um, and I, I understand

like that, like, there are, it's just

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difficult sometimes to fully like explain

like some of the, you know, you know,

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a bloody incision from a, you know,

uh, former like, uh, insemination,

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like, and like what that looks like

when it's pooling on the ground.

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And when you see the video of that, it's

absolutely like, you know, gut wrenching.

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And in this, like, in our story, I know,

like, we were trying to, you know, include

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some images, but honestly, like, some

of them were without a description of,

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like, you know, warning graphic content.

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It was not, we weren't going to

be able to, like, put that online.

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Um, and even the ones that we do have in

there, I've heard from some people that

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they were so upsetting that they couldn't,

like, continue reading the story.

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Um, which I think I don't

think that that's true.

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I think everyone should still

read the story by the way.

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Um, yes, but you know, like, I think

that in those inspection reports, you

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do see like that some individuals can

have citation, uh, you know, be cited

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over and over and over for failing

to get their dog's veterinary care.

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Um, and that they just

continue to operate.

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DrG: Yeah, and the biggest issue

that, like, I have found is when

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I'm looking at all these reports is

that they will find something that

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needs corrected and then they give

them the opportunity to correct it.

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And then they come back and a lot

of these evaluations are announced,

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so they know when they're coming.

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So then they know, oh, when they were

here last time, this dog was injured

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and it had open wounds and it's

still looking horrible, so we're just

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gonna get rid of this dog altogether.

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Yeah.

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So then when they come into the

investigation, Hey, a problem is solved.

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So then they'll mark it down as

the, the issue has been corrected.

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And then they'll find other issues.

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Well, these are new issues,

not the other issues.

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So then we're going to give

you another, you know, 30, 90

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days to correct that issue.

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And then that just allows these,

these breeders and brokers that are

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constantly having problems to stay open.

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Like their, their licenses just never

get taken out unless it's like a really,

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really egregious problem that they do.

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Alene Tchekmedyian: Yeah, one of the

people Melody mentioned, Steve Kruse,

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who's in West Point, Iowa has, I mean,

the, the biggest, you know, punishment

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that we saw for him after, you know,

all these pretty bad violations that

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we reviewed on the inspection reports

was a 21 day , uh, suspension and

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after that was over back in business.

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DrG: Right, because that, that

just means basically 21 days

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that he cannot sell or purchase.

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But it's not like he has to get rid

of the animals that he has, right?

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So it's just really a 21 day break,

would you say, on doing his business?

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Alene Tchekmedyian: Exactly.

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Melody Gutierrez: In that case, it's

a little different because he has

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an arrangement with a former, uh,

business partner and the business

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partner actually whelps the puppies.

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And so the business partner

could still sell those puppies.

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He just, uh, Steve Kruse just couldn't

transfer new dogs to him during that time,

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but they're on the same property operating

as like, like in this arrangement.

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And so I don't know, like, you know, that

we know whether or not it like actually

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hurt his bottom line, because if he

had transferred enough dogs over to be

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whelped, it might not have been a huge

difference in, um, in that punishment.

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DrG: Yeah, and if the paperwork

is not being monitored properly,

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then at any point they can say,

no, these were my puppies, right?

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Like they can just assume ownership.

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I mean, he, realistically, he can

just give up ownership to somebody

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else during that, during that process.

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And then the other person is free to

do whatever they want with them, like

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sell them or, you know, whatever.

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Melody Gutierrez: Yeah, I think, like, the

biggest thing for me in this investigation

351

is, like, for me, like, I think most

people know puppy mills are bad, right?

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Like, they, like, no one, like, wants

to buy a puppy mill, like, a dog from a

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puppy mill, um, and, like, the enforcement

of them is definitely, you know, You

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know, something that like nationally

is like a concern for a lot of people.

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And it's the way that these dogs end up

in people's homes and they have no idea

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that they have now supported a puppy mill.

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Like that was really interesting to me.

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It's just, the system is designed to,

like, create this opaqueness that, like,

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makes it very difficult to understand,

like, where is this pipeline and, like,

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and did you just contribute to an industry

that you, like, say you don't support?

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Alene Tchekmedyian: I was just going

to say also, just that people don't

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necessarily also know kind of how lax

some of the rules are, like the Animal

363

Welfare Act, you know, the requirements

for how you keep your dogs and, you

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know, you're allowed to breed them

over and over again without limit.

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Um, you know, as long as the cage

is big enough, they can pretty much

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spend their entire lives in there.

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Um, so I don't think that, people

necessarily realize that and when you

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say puppy mill, they might think illegal,

but it's not necessarily illegal.

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Some in some cases, they might be right.

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But these are for the most part licensed

facilities that are operating this way.

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DrG: Yeah, I mean, it's legal

animal neglect and cruelty.

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It's the best way to say.

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It's you have all these animals.

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Yeah, I often I often compare it

to hoarding cases because hoarders

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will maintain animals in the same

ways, and sometimes not even as bad

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as some of these puppy mills do.

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However a hoarder is legally liable

for the neglect that these animals

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are suffering for the lack of

proper care and for the lack of You

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Proper space of a clean environment.

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But then these breeders are allowed to

do the same thing that a hoarder does.

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And it is okay because

it's a for profit business.

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Melody Gutierrez: Yeah, one of the

things that we really wanted to do was

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see what it looks like in person, right?

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Like that was one of our goals

and so we did knock on the door

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of many different facilities.

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We got like a sneak peek into one like

before you close the door really fast.

387

And like, that was, um, I don't think

you fully understand what a, what the

388

noise sounds like in a facility that

has, you know, over a hundred, uh,

389

breeding dogs and in stacked cages.

390

Like that, that noise and

smell is so overwhelming.

391

Um, the, the man came out and

like these like large, like

392

noise canceling headphones.

393

Um, you know, and we did go to

a, a dog auction in Missouri.

394

Um, and I think that that was the

way that we could really see like.

395

the behavior differences in a dog, um,

when they live, when they've been a

396

breeding dog their entire lives, uh,

they, they just fundamentally don't act

397

like a dog that you had ever like seen.

398

Um, like you go up to the cage

and you could check out the

399

animals in this, um, this auction.

400

You could walk up and you can, you

know, I, I, I'm guessing it's for the

401

people who were going to be either

bidding on them or, uh, the rescues.

402

Uh, there are some rescues that go

and like get dogs there, but also it's

403

other breeders looking for new stock.

404

Um, and the animals themselves, like

it was, I mean, Alene and I had a real

405

hard time, like seeing what the animals

were behaving like, um, the way that

406

they don't make eye contact, they hide

at the back of their cage and just

407

like, are like, absolutely frightened.

408

And there were some that

were spinning in circles.

409

There was one that like, you know,

was missing some toes and like, um,

410

uh, like, you know, it was still

expected to breed like, you know, and

411

like, what was it standing properly?

412

Um, so it was, that

was really eye opening.

413

And then we did go to a,

uh, a larger facility.

414

Um, that I think it was

Bernie doodles that they did.

415

Um, but, you know, and it was a large

facility, but this family, like their

416

dogs acted like dogs, like, it's just

was like, such a stark difference when

417

you're there and you're seeing like,

the difference between these facilities

418

and like on paper they might look

the same because they both have a lot

419

of dogs, but like there was a huge

difference in the behavior of the dogs.

420

DrG: Yeah, it's really

important for people.

421

You know, I'm, I'm a

big shelter proponent.

422

So I think that people

should go to shelters.

423

Not that everybody has this, this idea

that there's only big dogs in shelters.

424

There's only pit bulls in shelters.

425

And what the truth is that there is

every type of dog, big dogs, little dogs.

426

There's so many doodles.

427

The doodles are being so overbred.

428

So they're ending up in, up in shelters.

429

And people say, well, I don't want

a dog from a shelter because I

430

don't know where it's come from.

431

I want to get it from a breeder.

432

Well, do you really know where this

dog from a breeder has come from?

433

Right?

434

You need to, and you got to see that.

435

First hand that you need to see the

environment where they come from, you

436

need to see the parents, you need to

see how they're being taken care of,

437

how you know how they act, how just

overall the situation because when

438

you meet somebody in a parking lot

to pick up a dog, you have no idea

439

where that dog has come from, right?

440

Alene Tchekmedyian: Yeah, and we

definitely talked to a bunch of

441

people who did buy dogs in parking

lots and, you know, their dog,

442

when they took it home, got sick.

443

And, um, in many cases, they realized

that they didn't really know much about

444

the person who sold the dog to them.

445

Um, it was maybe a fake

name, a burner phone number.

446

So when they tried to reach out again,

the person essentially just disappeared.

447

Melody Gutierrez: And I will say that the

people that we talked to, Many of them

448

thought they were doing the right thing.

449

Like, yeah, they did fall for the picture

and right, like the picture sells itself.

450

The puppy will sell itself every

time, but they believed the words

451

that the person had told them.

452

They believed it really was spoiled

their, uh, you know, first and only

453

litter, like all of these kinds of

keywords that are truly meant to like,

454

put somebody at ease and make them

think they're making a smart choice.

455

And, you know, it's really not until

that dog gets sick and they, you know,

456

the breeder turns out to be like a

ghost breeder and like there's no

457

recourse because you can't find them.

458

DrG: Reading through your report,

and I really encourage our listeners

459

to, you know, check out the LA Times

and read the entire report, because

460

there's so much good information.

461

One of the people that you were

investigating was this Monique

462

Matthews, and it sounds like she

was one of these people that was

463

selling at parking lots as well.

464

Alright, can you tell us a little

bit about her operation and how

465

she ended up getting in trouble?

466

Alene Tchekmedyian: Yeah, so she, um,

was, yes, meeting people in public places,

467

parking lots, parks, um, and selling dogs.

468

She used aliases.

469

She never really gave her real

name, at least in recent years.

470

Um, and, you know, we talked

to people who bought dogs from

471

her whose dogs ended up sick.

472

And in one case, the dog

actually died after 11 days.

473

And that was very, very heartbreaking.

474

Um, she, we found, was using

aliases on these certificates

475

of veterinary inspection.

476

Um, and we were able to link.

477

Almost 1000 dogs to her operations

478

these various aliases, that are on the

records, um, and a lot of times she

479

was getting them from Iowa, Missouri,

um, Kansas in a couple instances.

480

And it was actually a pet transporter

who delivered a Boston Terrier to her in

481

2021, uh, was going inside to, to drop

off the dog and saw the conditions of,

482

of the rest of the animals in there.

483

There were dogs and cats in small cages.

484

It was very, very hot in the garage

sweltering and there was no water

485

for the dogs and he was just so

overcome with emotion and anger

486

seeing this, uh, this garage.

487

And he struggled with actually

leaving the facility, leaving

488

these dogs unattended in there.

489

And he vowed to himself that when he got

back to Missouri, he was going to call

490

animal control and report the neglect.

491

And when he did, they moved very quickly

later that day, they got a search warrant

492

and seized all of the dogs in the garage.

493

And she was charged with animal cruelty.

494

Um, in a case that, you know,

went over the course of a couple

495

of years and recently resolved.

496

Um, and actually during that

case, the judge decided that she

497

should not possess any animals.

498

She shouldn't like over the course

of her case, she, she's not allowed.

499

He ordered her not to possess any animals,

even her personal pets at that point.

500

Um, but her name continued or those

aliases that we identified continued

501

to show up on the health certificates.

502

So she was still getting

dogs during that time.

503

And in one case, we actually, um, one

of her client's relatives set up, a

504

buy with her and we ended up showing up

instead and tried to interview her there.

505

And this was when she was under

court order not to possess animals.

506

She was still trying to sell dogs.

507

And then, recently this past summer,

she was, um, she actually pleaded

508

guilty to those animal cruelty charges

for the conditions in the garage and

509

was sentenced to 90 days, which she

could do in a like a work release

510

program in some community service.

511

And the case is now, you know, now over.

512

DrG: Was there any mention

as far as her USDA license?

513

Like is she, did she lose her license?

514

Is she able to get licensed again ever?

515

Alene Tchekmedyian: Yeah,

she does not have a license.

516

She was selling dogs to people

in person and not, I don't

517

believe she was breeding them.

518

Um, although she was telling people

that she was the breeder of the dogs.

519

DrG: So she was, okay, so hold on.

520

So she was getting dogs from,

she was getting dogs brought in

521

to her from these, uh, brokers.

522

And then she was selling

them without a license.

523

Is that right?

524

Melody Gutierrez: Yeah.

525

And because she's selling them in

person, I think that that's one of the

526

areas that doesn't require a license.

527

DrG: You know, from a, from a perspective,

a legal perspective, like clearly we

528

care about the animals, we care about

the condition of the animals, the

529

health of the animals, the fact that

they're neglected and suffering, you

530

know, some of these dogs are dying.

531

But then on the other side too,

we got to look at I say like

532

consumer protection, right?

533

Because what are, what recourses are there

for these people who are spending probably

534

hundreds and thousands of dollars buying

these purebred dogs in a parking lot and,

535

you know, getting, getting sick animals?

536

Like, you know, these laws, I'm sure,

again, are meant to protect animals,

537

but they need to be upheld just so

they can protect consumers as well.

538

Melody Gutierrez: Yeah, I mean, it's hard

to have any kind of recourse if, if the

539

person's given you a fake name, and so one

of the things, you know, beyond, you know,

540

being able to see the parents of those

dogs and being adamant that you need to

541

see at least the, the, I mean, I'll take

your advice on this too, but like, I'm

542

assuming the mother dog like you need to

see that a dog has recently given like,

543

you know, there's a way to tell like that

544

this is obviously the mom like you can

tell that she's recently nursed the

545

puppies And it can't just be you know a

dog that doesn't, you know, that's there.

546

Like, I think that that's like some of

the things that I've heard from people

547

is like, well, you know, I saw the

parents and, you know, it makes you

548

question, like, did, did you like, I

mean, it might not have been, but beyond

549

seeing, like, you know, the parent dogs

and not relying on a picture, um, being

550

able to see them and like conditions,

you know, I think like, even just

551

asking for like, let me see your ID.

552

Like, let me, let me actually know that

the person that you are is the person

553

that, like, I'm buying a dog from.

554

DrG: Uh, during the course of your

investigation, did you interview

555

any legitimate breeders and get

their, you know, see what they

556

think about this whole thing?

557

Melody Gutierrez: Yeah, we, um,

in, uh, I think it was Missouri.

558

We met with one that is a larger

scale one and sat down with them

559

and, you know, talk to them about

like what their thoughts are.

560

And, um, you know, we did definitely

try to reach out to, to regular like

561

breeders in California too, but, um,

we did focus mostly on these, um,

562

They're really not breeders, right?

563

Like, there are people who are

importing dogs or these middlemen,

564

um, and sort of detailing, like, this

pipeline to people, like, who think

565

that they're buying from a breeder.

566

Um, you know, the Boston Terrier that

Alene mentioned that was delivered to

567

that garage of Monique Matthews, you

know, we could see on its paperwork

568

that it, you know, was an Indiana

breeder to an Indiana broker to a

569

Missouri travel, um, uh, transportation

company, then to Norco in California.

570

That pipeline, like, I had no idea

that this wasn't a straight line

571

from like a breeder to, uh, you know,

to these, uh, places in California.

572

Like it's, it's quite the, the

journey in those first days

573

and weeks of a puppy's life.

574

DrG: Yeah.

575

One of the things that I have

seen, especially like in, in places

576

that do allow the retail sale of

puppies is that they will see the

577

puppies that come out of the van.

578

And then they'll look at a puppy

and say, Oh, this puppy has a health

579

condition or has a congenital problem.

580

You know, like the knees are, are, are

not in place or it has whatever issue.

581

And they'll say, I don't want this puppy.

582

And then they'll just put it back

in the van and then go to the next

583

place and the next place and the next

place until they find the, the one.

584

seller that doesn't mind that

the puppy has these problems.

585

Because unfortunately, by the time

somebody purchases a dog, and then

586

the dog starts having problems, the

dog is sick, or, you know, months

587

down the line starts showing symptoms

of some congenital problem, the

588

person is attached to them, right?

589

So there, it's not like they're going

to be able to just give it back.

590

Alene Tchekmedyian: Yeah, no, we actually

talked to people who were advised by

591

vets, like, you should go back and return

this puppy, and the people Uh, we're just

592

like, no, this is part of my family now.

593

And, you know, if I return

her that, like, what is that?

594

I don't want to return this dog to

those conditions where they came from.

595

Um, you know, at this point I want

to nurse them back to health and

596

give them a good life because of.

597

it's just, it would just be too hard

to, to return them to those conditions.

598

Melody Gutierrez: It's really

unrealistic to, I mean, anybody who's

599

been attached to a pet, the idea

of handing back a puppy and saying,

600

nevermind, like this one's too hard.

601

Like I just, It breaks your heart.

602

Like, I mean, even with some of the lemon

laws, like that do exist, like, you know,

603

one of the recourses in some of those

are to return the puppy for a new one.

604

And that just, I don't think

that that jives with how

605

people relate and love pets.

606

DrG: There are some people in rescue

that call them greeders instead of

607

breeders because it is driven by greed,

you know, and, and people like, like

608

this woman that even though she had.

609

Like, by law, she was not allowed

to be doing anything with these

610

animals, but she was still doing it.

611

It's because, you know, the money's there.

612

It's just greed driving

them to do these things.

613

Alene Tchekmedyian: The

repercussions aren't aren't

614

necessarily that strong either.

615

Melody Gutierrez: One of the things that

we were really excited about with this

616

investigation was being able to take

these records and pull the microchips off

617

the records and give consumers a chance

to see, like, whether or not their dog

618

was purchased, uh, from out of state.

619

And so that has the opportunity in

some of these cases where people are

620

pretending to be breeders, you know, if,

if an individual has a contract saying

621

I am buying from this person, this is

the breeder and they're able to find the

622

microchip in our system, I mean, that,

that definitely would point to like,

623

you know, uh, consumer fraud there, like

there, there are true issues with that.

624

And I think that the reason that this

industry has been able to, you know, yeah.

625

allow these like fake breeders to

exist is that like finding that

626

information is very difficult.

627

But a microchip is, you know,

a unique identifier and these

628

records hopefully will help people.

629

Um, you know, it also

includes some from pet stores.

630

And so if somebody got a dog, um,

you know, rescued a dog, uh, went

631

to a shelter and fell in love, um,

and you could potentially find, you

632

know, what was your dog's story?

633

What's your dog's real birthday?

634

Like, you know, there are some

really interesting, you know,

635

details on these records that I think

consumers would really benefit from.

636

DrG: So if any of our listeners

are interested in checking if

637

their animal came from one of these

places, like how can they, how

638

can they look into this database?

639

Melody Gutierrez: Uh, so it's the Pets

for Profit is the name of our series

640

and in there is our database, um, that

you could put your information in.

641

Um, we also have a, a tool underneath

this database after putting, uh, we're

642

only including the 15 digit, um, microchip

numbers, uh, that's just the most popular

643

and easiest to, to add into there.

644

You know, there are several thousand

microchips in there and we're hoping to,

645

to help consumers figure out if, like, if

they unknowingly bought from a puppy mill.

646

DrG: So what would you say, you

know, in, in summary, what's the

647

biggest take home message that you

wanna give your, your readers and our

648

listeners as far as this investigation?

649

Alene Tchekmedyian: I, I hope that

we're able to educate readers about what

650

questions to ask and what to look for,

red flags to look for when they are trying

651

to get a new, add a pet to their family.

652

Melody Gutierrez: Yeah, I think that,

you know, there are, the shelters are

653

overflowing in California and there's

lots of great options there for, for

654

somebody who wants to adopt a pet.

655

And, you know, for those who are, you

know, wanting to, you know, purchase

656

a pet from a breeder that, that you

have to be vigilant, you have to,

657

you know, go into it thinking that

maybe like everything that this person

658

might be telling you might not be

true and you have to be skeptical.

659

Um, and I think it was in one of your

previous podcasts where you had, um,

660

where someone had mentioned, um, you

know, that you might not know as much

661

as you think you do about this dog.

662

Like you might actually have the exact

same amount of information as you

663

would for a dog you get at a shelter.

664

Um, and so I think being like

understanding that you might, you know,

665

you, there's a lot of skepticism that

has to happen in this market right now.

666

DrG: And for anybody that wants

to get more information as well,

667

check out Bailing out Benji,

it's just bailing out benji.

668

com.

669

Mindy and her team do a fantastic job

as far as trying to find these areas.

670

They have lists of breeders and brokers

that there have been, there have

671

been problems with, uh, you know, if

somebody's telling you, oh, I only have

672

a small group of dogs, you can go and

then you can see if that's true or not.

673

Like some of these people that say

that they're small breeding facilities,

674

they'll have over 300 animals.

675

And if you can think about it,

You know, even like shelters with

676

50 animals and a lot of people,

they have a hard time keeping them

677

clean and taking care of them.

678

We're talking about hundreds and hundreds

of these animals that these people are

679

keeping supposedly in good condition.

680

So yeah, be, get informed, learn about,

you know, where you're getting your

681

animal and we have to get away from the

mentality that just because it's from a

682

breeder, we know that where it came from

and that it has a good lineage because

683

that's just unfortunately not the case.

684

Well, thank you for being here.

685

Thank you for writing the story

because we need to we need to educate

686

consumers and we need to educate people.

687

The consumers hold all the power to

shutting these puppy mills down and

688

to shutting these these retailers and

individuals that are selling dogs.

689

So I'm hoping to to see where

this goes, and maybe in the not so

690

distant future, you will be writing

another investigative report about

691

how this has made a difference.

692

Melody Gutierrez: Thank you so much.

693

Thank you.

694

DrG: Thank you for being here.

695

And for our listeners thank you for

listening and thank you for caring.