Converge church planting leaders Lee Stephenson and Danny Parmelee want to help you avoid the common mistakes church planters make.

1:02 Lee says the first mistake is overspending.

1:13 Two things church planters overspend on are marketing and sound system/audiovisual.  

2:02 Danny says the drive to overspend comes from the comparison culture.

2:34 Danny and Lee recommend having a coach to help you guard against overspending.

3:14 Lee says you need to create a budget and stick to it.

3:42 Another way Lee sees planters overspending is staffing or setting up their own salary.

4:21 Danny says the second mistake is making people feel guilty for leaving the church, which he struggled with at his church plant.

6:05 Danny eventually learned, "When people come and go, it’s just part of it. Have a kingdom mindset, send them out with a blessing."

6:35 Lee says when someone is leaving, look at that as an opportunity to ask some questions and learn from them. "Hey, I know you’re going to be heading out, are there things that we could pay attention to that we could grow from, that I could grow from as a leader that would help us move forward as a church?"

7:24 Lee talks about the third mistake: choosing the wrong meeting space.

9:01 Danny says if you’re planning on attracting families, you need to think about children’s space.

9:31 Lee says you need to pay attention to the cultural aspect of the facility. If it has a negative connotation culturally and historically in that community, people aren’t going to come.

10:16 Danny discusses the fourth mistake: giving titles like pastor and director too early. Give responsibility, not title. It’s easier to remove responsibility from someone than it is to remove a title.

11:25 Lee says leadership has to be something you recognize, not something you appoint.

11:57 Danny says he set his interns up for failure by giving them the title pastor.

12:23 The fifth mistake: overprogramming.

13:03 Danny and Lee talk about responding to people who want to start a new ministry in your church.

Lee Stephenson: Everyone, welcome to the Unfiltered podcast, where we are having real conversations about church planting. My name is Lee Stephenson, and my co-host here.

Danny Parmelee: I’m Danny Parmelee. I oversee church planting for Converge MidAmerica.

Lee Stephenson: And we’re just excited to be with you today. And specifically, I think this would be a fun conversation, Danny, as we were going to just talk about, what are the five dumbest things that we see church planters do that really hinder their ability to carry out the mission?

Danny Parmelee: And these are not from us, because we didn’t make any mistakes when we planted a church. That’s how we got into our roles as we basically just did it perfect. And so none of these have anything to do with personal experience.

Lee Stephenson: No, no, of course not. Other than my wife made a list of all these things.

Danny Parmelee: She only had five, my goodness.

Danny Parmelee: Yeah, and I think that part of that drive comes from just the comparison culture. It’s just so easy. Now, when you see all of these different churches, you’re able to see the inside and seeing what they’re doing on social media. It’s like, Oh, I need to have all of those different gadgets and gizmos and that type of experience. It’s just unrealistic, unless you’re just raising a million dollars to do that. And even if you did raise a million, I think there’s other ways to spend it.

Lee Stephenson: Yeah, absolutely. So what would be a guardrail? Or what would be some barriers that you would encourage a church planter to put into place to keep them from overspending.

Danny Parmelee: This is where I think you just need good outside wisdom, because I think it would be hard because every situation is so different. You may have to invest more in sound and lights if you’re in some sort of environment where you have to change it. Let’s say you’re in a school gymnasium, and it’s like, OK, well, we’re gonna or we need $10,000 in pipe and drape just to kind of create the space where someone else may not need to. So getting outside wisdom and someone, maybe who’s been down the path, say, yeah, that’s a little bit too much, or why don’t you peel back on this? Or sometimes maybe you do need to increase it as well, too.

Lee Stephenson: And sometimes they have creative ways of going, “Hey, if you actually do this, it’ll accomplish the same thing. But it’s going to be half the price.” So I think that outside coach and I agree. And then I think even working ahead, having a realistic expectation, kind of write it down. This is how much I actually have to spend. So create a budget for OK, here’s what’s going to go outside, here’s what we’re going to be able to put into AV and then stick to your budget.

Danny Parmelee: Yep, absolutely. OK, what were some of the other ones that you said? Oh, yeah, the marketing and then sound. Any other big expenditures kind of in the beginning that you’d say?

Lee Stephenson: Staffing. I would say staffing or setting up your own personal salary. Like you, I do think you got to come at it with a willingness to sacrifice. I don’t think that means you, you know, can’t go to the store and buy groceries to put on your table. But there has to be a willingness to sacrifice to get the church up and going. And so it’s not like you come in and say, I’m setting my salary at $120,000 when you only have $150,000 to put into the new church plant. Or, you know, I’m gonna hire five people right off the bat. Yeah, that’s great if you raise the money, but you’ve got to make sure that the money is actually there.

Danny Parmelee: Or if they raise the money. All right, so get ready for No. 2. So making people feel guilty for leaving the church. This one is a one that’s personal experience for me. It’s one that I share all of the time. Guilt is powerful. It will keep people around for the short term, but not for the long term. And you’ll run into some major problems there. So I just not even kind of knowing that I was doing it. But if someone said that they were leaving, I was feeling rejected. I was feeling abandoned. So it’s really easy to use some spiritual manipulation and tell them, “Hey, remember when you sign that covenant, this is like a marriage covenant, you know, you’re divorcing, and Jesus is against divorce.”

Lee Stephenson: Is that your go-to line, Danny?

Danny Parmelee: Yes. I’m serious. I mean, I laugh at it now, but it is just sad. And I should probably make lots of phone calls and apologize to people. But in my mind, I was thinking, you know, people are leaving, they’re on the verge of sin basically, by leaving the church. And what happened is it just reinforced people’s reason for leaving, and instead, later on, once I learned what was happening and what I was doing and how prideful and egotistical and flesh driven I was in all of that is that I started to just send people out and say, “Hey, thank you for your time, I hate to see you go.” And what would happen is usually two things. One is eventually they would come back, some of them, small number, but even those that didn’t come back left with a great taste in their mouth, and they tell their friends, “OK, I don’t go to this church. But I did go to this church in the past. And it was really, really great. And you might like it, too.” And so get out of your own headspace. When people come and go, it’s just part of it. Have a kingdom mindset, send them out with blessing.

Lee Stephenson: Absolutely. I think that’s great advice. And I think in even in our history, I’ve come to recognize that God brings people to your church for a season. And sometimes it’s a short season, sometimes it’s extended season, and some of our greatest blessings were people that only were with us six months. They don’t always leave well, but in the time period that they were there, they were a great, great blessing. And I think anytime somebody is leaving, look at that as an opportunity to learn from them as well. And ask some questions. “Hey, I know you’re going to be heading out, are there things that we could pay attention to that we could grow from that I could grow from as a leader that would help us move forward as a church?” It’d be 50/50, whether or not you get something that’s helpful. And but again, it sets the tone differently as they exit to give a positive perspective as they walk out the door. And I would say, yeah, we probably saw depending on the season, probably 25 to 40% of those people eventually came back. And sometimes it would be two or three years down the road that they come back into the church.

Danny Parmelee: Absolutely. All right, go with No. 3.

Danny Parmelee: Yeah, absolutely. And when people do look ahead, they think, well, even if we grow into this, and we won’t have to change locations, like you know, what if you have to change locations later because you’re, you know, growing like gangbusters, it’s a good thing. You know, I mean, so don’t try to plan in that sort of way. So I absolutely agree. The other thing is, if you are planning on attracting families, then children’s space, I know we talk about it all the time. But it is really important because as a church planter, you’re often thinking of that Sunday, like, well, the auditorium is amazing. Well, the kids doesn’t really work. But you know, we can put four in the basement and two in the shed and, you know, put a couple over here and it’s like, you know what, that auditorium space isn’t as much what even many families will make their decision based on so.

Lee Stephenson: Great, great. And then I would say, you know, little things like pay attention to the cultural aspect of the facility. If it has a negative connotation culturally, historically, within that community, people aren’t going to come as well. You know, for instance, I know one planter that started, they moved their church to a mental health facility. Well, it, the space was nice, but people didn’t want to be in that facility on Sunday morning because they thought: What are people gonna think of me if I’m walking into the mental health institution?

Danny Parmelee: That is awesome. Is that church still in existence today by the way?

Lee Stephenson: It is not, but the planter’s heart was pure. Why don’t you give us No. 4?

Danny Parmelee: Giving titles too early. So this is another one personal experience. We didn’t have any money. So I thought, well, I can’t give you money, but I’m going to give you the title of pastor, title of director. We didn’t do this because we were at least coached on this well enough or calling someone an elder way too soon. And it can just, it can be easy to do that. So we always just say, give responsibility, not title. It’s easier to remove responsibility from someone than it is to remove title. So if someone is called youth pastor, and all of a sudden it’s like, wow, they’re actually horrible with youth. To say, you’re no longer the youth pastor, you’re essentially having to fire them. Even if you’re not paying them type of thing, you’re having to fire them, where it’s like, Hey, we’re entrusting you to, you know, for the next six months to, you know, engage with the youth and say, Hey, you know what, that wasn’t working, let’s find another seat on the bus. It’s just much easier, not only for them, but to explain to the rest of the church kind of what’s going on. So give responsibility, don’t give titles too early, allow people to grow into them, to kind of earn them to prove themselves first and then give the title.

Lee Stephenson: Yeah, leadership has got to be something you recognize, it’s not something you appoint. And I would highly encourage people out there like, protect the position of pastor, that is not something you just give out randomly and quickly. And same when it comes to what does it mean to be an elder and overseer in the life of your church. Move slowly. And honestly, in the long run, that can be a better bet. And I paid that, you know, stupid tax as well. And if we can avoid anybody from paying that, that’ll be a good one.

Danny Parmelee: I had three interns and allowed them, suggested to them the title pastor. And what I did is I actually set them up for failure, because then other people were like, I called the pastor today, and he didn’t return my call. Well, because the pastor was an intern and had a full-time job, and couldn’t live up to, you know, the expectation and the expectation of pastor and so it really was not fair to them either.

Lee Stephenson: No, that’s great. And No. 5, I would say, dumbest mistake church planters make is just overprogramming. They think the programs are going to be the key of what key people in and get people engaged in the life of the church. And so they try to have what I would call the Greek menu of options for people that come in the doors of the church, you know, it’s like, yeah, we’ve got men’s ministry, we’ve got women’s ministry, guess what, we even have ministry for your dog. And you know, they just list all these things, thinking, Hey, this is this will be what keeps people part of our church because we offer things that nobody else actually offers in this community.

Danny Parmelee: Yeah. And the other thing I would probably add to that is that you will have people coming to you saying, I want to start this ministry, and everything you’ve read in your leadership books is all about empowering people. And, you know, equipping the saints for ministry. Well, sometimes your most equipping word is no, like, we just can’t have you, you know, we can’t do that. Or we can’t do that right now. Keep it focused.

Lee Stephenson: Yeah. And I think one of the things that helped us was just having the conversation with people like, we think that’s a great idea. And we’re not going to say no to you carrying out that ministry, because let’s be honest, most people come up with the idea with the expectation, you’re going to carry out your dreams, yeah, empower them. And but use this kind of idea. Like, I think it’s great. It will not be a centralized ministry of our church. But we’re all about decentralized ministry. And so go create this, you know, God bless you, we’ll pray for you, you know, and release them. But making a centralized ministry of the church usually means that there has to be some type of person with responsibility, authority and budgetary items included in the process that gets carried out in the church.

Danny Parmelee: And communication space. Oh, I want to be in the bulletin, on the website. Can I make a small announcement? Can I start recruiting volunteers from the stage? No, you may not.

Lee Stephenson: Why? And they take it personal and get mad and leave the church and take a bunch of people with them. So that’s the nightmare of that. But five dumb mistakes church planters make, Danny. Hopefully, you don’t make the mistakes we made, for our listeners out there. But thanks for tuning in. This has been the Unfiltered podcast, just real conversations about church planting. Till next time, keep it real.