We are excited to bring you this encore presentation of one of our most popular episodes. We hope you enjoy!

I got to sit down with entrepreneur, speaker, and great friend Jess Ekstrom and we jumped right in with their decision to sell their apartment and move into an Airstream. Hearing about her relationship and having different ambitions as a partner and how to communicate about it was awesome. I asked her where do you develop a stick-to-itiveness nature with bring ideas to life. Then we chatted about branding yourself while wanting to still be yourself and how do you know when you can turn around and help someone who is behind you? We closed it out with developing trust in your working and personal relationships. 



About the Guest: 

Jess Ekstrom is the founder and CEO of Headbands of Hope, author of Chasing the Bright Side and just launched her podcast called Business on the Bright Side. She's passionate about helping women tell and sell their story through public speaking and book writing. Jess lives full time in her Airstream trailer with her husband, Jake, and their dog, Ollie. She can run multi-million dollar businesses but she can't keep a plant alive and doesn't own an iron.

www.jessekstrom.com

www.instagram.com/jess_ekstrom

www.brightpages.com

About the Host: 

Friends! Here's a somewhat stuffy bio of me:  

I am an author, professional speaker, coach, host, and entrepreneur. My first book, Leading Imperfectly: The value of being authentic for leaders, professionals, and human beings, is available wherever people buy books. I speak internationally to willing and unwilling attendees about authenticity, vulnerability, and leadership. My clients include American Express, General Electric (GE), Accenture, Yale University, The Ohio State University, and many others. As a speaker, I am doing the two things I loves the most: making people think and making people laugh! 

I host my own events multiple times a year. They are 2-day events called Living Imperfectly Live (and sometimes they are 1-day virtual events). They are a space where humans from every walk of life can come together to be part of a community on the pursuit of badassery. The goal is to help attendees start living the life we say we want to live.

Alas, you're here because of an idea I had a number of years ago and didn't think I was good enough to pull it off. I finally acted on it and alas Diner Talks with James was born! As you can see from what I do in my professional life, Diner Talks is alligned with everything I believe in and teach.  If this wasn't dry enough, and you would like to know more info about my speaking, events, or coaching feel free to check out my website: JamesTRobo.com.

Let’s Be Friends on Social Media!

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jamestrobo

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jamestrobo

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamesrobilotta/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/JamesRobilottaCSP

Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/JamesTRobo

Thanks for listening!

Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page.

Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!

Subscribe to the podcast

If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app.

Leave us an Apple Podcasts review

Ratings and reviews from the listeners are extremely valuable to me and greatly appreciated. They help Diner Talks podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, it would mean the world if you couple leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.

Welcome to diner talks with James, slide into the booth and let's have conversations we never want to end with friends. We never want to leave over food, we probably shouldn't be

Welcome to diner talks with James. I'm James, what's going on friends, I'm so excited to have you here. We got a special episode, my dear friend, Jess Eckstrom is with me, she's gonna make you laugh. She's gonna make you think she's gonna make you wonder maybe I need to sell my house and go travel around the country in an RV. It's great. She's very influential. But before that, my friends, we have some standards here. And also please check it out. We're still in the middle of moving right now. So I hope the internet sounds good. Let's find out shall we create. But either way, my friends, I am excited to have you here and the diner. And let's jump in with tonight's top three, top three. First off, we lost an icon. We lost an icon my friends. And so I want to give you the top my top three favorite quotes of the one and only Ruth Bader Ginsburg. So here are my top three favorite quotes from our big Notorious RBG. To you folks. All right, here we go. I asked no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks. What a boss. Next, I would like to be remembered as someone who used whatever talent, she had to do the work to the very best of her ability. I love that one of my favorite quotes of all time, it's one of my favorite movies of all time. It's called A Bronx Tale. And one of my favorite quotes from that is the worst thing in life is wasted talent. RBG You most certainly did not waste your talent. And my favorite quote from RBG is one that most people know. But I love it as well fight for the things that you care about. But do it in a way that will lead others to join you. Can I get an amen? Up in here? RBG. Thank you. Thank you for what you did for what you fought for, for what you stood up for. Yes, you had your flaws. You didn't nail it every single time. But damn it, our country is in a better place because you served. Thank you RBG appreciate you. Next to top three, top three we out here. So as I mentioned Jessica Eckstrom is currently traveling around the country in an Airstream and that is impressive, man that is impressive. But it got me thinking if I was going to do the RV thing I'd probably check off national parks. I know Jeff has been doing a number of those. We'll get to some of that. But here are my top three national parks that I've currently visited. I got a ton more on the list. So my favorite top three national parks first of all number three is Holly Aquila. This is in Hawaii. Yes, I just put this on here to flex that I've been to Hawaii. I'm just kidding. It was stunning. We went up to the top of this volcano. And we watched the sunset over the clouds. At one point we drove through the clouds came out on the other side, watch the sunset into the clouds and then the Milky Way came out and it was outrageous. It was beautiful. Next, Yosemite, Yosemite that was gonna sting for Jess, but that's okay. The next one is Yosemite. What an incredible Park. When I first showed up, it was completely encased in fog. And I said really, I drove all this way and came all the way out here. I only had one day there and the whole thing was in fog and couldn't see it. But then the fog slowly started to lift and it was so magical. It was incredible. And last but not least my friends. I don't care if it's cliche. I will say it all day. The Grand Canyon. Have you ever been with a friend and they told you about a movie and they sold you that movie? And they said you know you don't understand? This movie is so good. It's incredible. You got to see this movie, this movie is gonna change your life. You haven't been with someone like that. And then you go see the movie and you're like, I mean, that was maybe two stars, right? Like maybe it was maybe 60% on Rotten Tomatoes, my friends, the Grand Canyon, no matter how much I tell you how beautiful it is. You will have an experience when you go and it is incredible. It's just one of those things that defies those. And also I got to take a helicopter tour over it so that makes it special to those of my top three national parks. Last but not least in honor of just extremes rolling experience that she is having right now. I once rented an RV with two of my friends. One of them now now wife Tina, and another buddy Steve rented an RV to go to the Indianapolis 500 We picked it up in DC and we drove over and we slept in the fields in the RV. It was a fascinating cross section of American culture. It was awesome. But the three things that I learned in an RV are this number one, I don't fit in the shower.

I don't fit in the show you got to grease me up to get me in there. Number two is that you don't want to be the third wheel on an RV trip because the two of us were up front and then there was always somebody in the back and they were having a very different solitary experience because they can't hear the two people that are driving. Gina just basically sat in the back and read Harry Potter the whole time but she said it was lovely. And last but not least, the number one thing that I learned when in an RV is that when the air conditioning breaks, and you are in the middle of a white ass open field in Indiana at the Indianapolis 500 you sweat a lot. And your boy doesn't like to sweat while he sleeps. Those are tonight's top three top three my friends. Let's jump in to this episode. My guest this evening is the one and only a Jessica Eckstrom. She is a dear friend of mine. We've known each other for a while we met on the speaker circuit and a great friendship came around from it. I've met her dog Ollie, your husband is an incredible human being shout out to Jake but Jess. Jess is just one of those folks that you meet. And you don't really understand how everything that she does. She does because it seems effortless on the outside. But she busts her ass. She has one of the best work ethics of anybody I know. She started a business at 19 that impacted hundreds of individuals 1000s of individuals excuse me that suffer from childhood cancer. It's called headbands of hope. Every time you support her business, she donates another headband to a lot a young folks, young folks with cancer she's been able to donate to every single children's hospital in the country, which is incredible and a whole bunch internationally. She also wrote a book called Chasing the bright side, your boy punched up some of the jokes in the book, but please know that it was all her I just lied to her and told her I made it funnier next. And last is that she is one of the most powerful speakers that I've ever had an opportunity to spend time with. And Her Grace and her kindness off the stage. Doubles that of what she's able to do on the stage. She's just a wonderful human being. I'm excited for you to meet her. Let's bring her out right now. The one the only Jess Ekstrom.

Oh, what's up fam me Hello? Hello. Okay, first, I didn't realize you're gonna make me cry one with RBG and two with my introduction. So you should have given me a little heads up.

For sure. No, Jess, you are. You're incredible. And I'm super excited to have you here. And kickin it with the diner. Jess. Are you? Are you a late night eater? Is it you do any late night snacking?

I'm a morning like I'm a morning person. But I mean, I've been known to get into some popcorn late at night. That's like my late night snack.

Is that popcorn? Okay,

get it? poppin if you will.

Yeah. And I will. And I will.

I feel like whenever I talk to you like my humor, switches to James humor. Like, I have this like extra part in my brain. And I'm like, What would James like?

Thank you. So but it's interesting, because you grew up in the South North Carolina in the building. And so you were surrounded by waffle houses when you were younger? Did you ever hit up where you? Was Waffle House? Always a morning adventure for you? Or did you not go to Waffle House? Because that's not what we do.

Waffle House was like, if you were serious with a boy, like you would go to waffle house at night, like after like a dance or a party like that is kind of where I went down was Waffle House. Actually, they would call it Wha whoa.

if you will. Wow. Oh, of course. Yeah. Wow.

Yeah. Yeah. So Waffle House is a little scandalous in my book. Wow that was funny. We were driving by a Denny's the other day and it was like Denny's now has happy hour. I'm like, what would you do? Like go there and get like a cosmopolitan and a pancake like it just seems like such a contradicting thing, but I'm like that actually sounds amazing. And I want to Denny's Happy Hour and get a Cosmo a pancake.

One of the few places you can do that. Right? Like that's their special sauce. You know, that is their special sauce. Yeah. cosmopolitans Denny special sauce it's funny in New York all the diners they're always have these incredible bars behind them and you're like who was coming through in ordering like a Rob Roy neat. Right now he's coming through and ordering like his crazy drinks. Yeah, someone

it's there for a reason. It's like the The rules, the signs that you see in parks, and it's like, don't ride the turkeys here and you're just like, Who the fuck would ride the turkey like, and you're like, somehow somewhere that sign was born because of something that existed, you know? And so I think about that a lot

more. There's so many absurd signs in the world. I love when you drive around neighborhoods that contain old people. And the speed limit is always like 12 miles an hour.

Yeah, it's like, why not? 15 Why not? 10

Yeah, exactly. But yet I'm like, I wonder if I could drive 12 And then I do it. I don't know. Challenge accepted Exactly. Just where in the world are you right now you're, as I mentioned, you're in an Airstream traveling around the world around not around the world around the country, but we're willing

to Sumerian as well. So we can go around the world. Oh, nice. Nice.

Airstream.

That's why Yeah, that's why it's a cylindrical thing. But um, so we are in Napa right now, but it's stung when you said Yosemite because we were supposed to be in Yosemite this week. But because of the fires, we've had to reroute, so please pray for me. I'm in Napa. I don't really know what to do here. Besides, yeah. Tough life over here. And for

sure. You could do some French Laundry there. as well.

Just heard about that. Have you been there?

I have not. No, no, it's fairly. It's one of those restaurants. It was ready to one of the best in the world though. And it's always up there on the all the lists. Think it's delicious. So

I heard about it from someone here at the RV park. And I came back and I was like, Jake, there's this place called folded laundry that like is like the best. The best restaurant that we have to go to. So he looked it up. He's like, Are you sure it's called folded laundry? And I was like, Maybe I was wrong. It's French Laundry.

There it is there. This? is sounds like you're ready for a night of fine dining. Yes,

true. True. But we were also laughing because we were like, imagine because it's like a year out reservation to get at this place. Imagine if you did that. And then COVID happened and they were like, you can have takeout? It's like imagine spending like a year waiting in a $400 meal in a to go bag like a treasure. The agony.

The pain? Does that Patay gonna make it all the way home and its current state. I have no idea. Yeah, but actually, yeah, no, that's super, super frustrating. A lot of people a lot of people getting hosed by this COVID thing. For sure. But Jess, it's amazing that you have been able to get out here into this RV. I mean, how did that experience even happen? Like, when was the when was it like when did you and Jake look at each other be like RV, RV. Like like that'd be it even happened.

There was a moment. We call it the coconut shrimp that changed our life. And we had just gotten married. And we had these gift cards to different restaurants in Raleigh, and one of them was to Bonefish grill. So we went to Bonefish grill, and we ordered this coconut shrimp. And I had just gotten back from my parents have been traveling in an RV for I mean right now. I think they just crossed their six year mark. They've been full time in rolling. Right? Yeah, I know. I'm sure my mom is going to be tuning in a second. But uh, so they had been in the RV for a while I just went had a speaking gig somewhere in like Utah, where I went and saw them in the RV. And so we're eating this coconut trip. And I'm like, you know, it's so cool to be able to travel but still have like the familiarity of your own home and like, your st pillow, you have your kitchen and all of that. And, and I was like, you know, we should do that when we retire. And like that should be our retirement plan is to go travel, like what my parents did, because my parents sold their company sold their house, like this is like their plan. And so we're eating and we were like, Okay, we literally like don't even have a retirement yet. We don't even have kids yet. Like that's gonna be a good 2025 years by that time, there's probably going to be like spaceships. That's like the retirement plan that you can take to Mars. But I'm like, we don't want to wait till like one day. And we just thought like, well, what would it take to do that now? And I feel like that was it started this conversation that we almost like pretended to go all in. So we're like, okay, let's just say, Fuck it. We're going into an air stream like this is what we're doing. And what would our life look like? If that was like a hard decision that we made? We're like, Okay, we have to run out our place. We have to figure out you know if my business can sustain us from the road, or if you can do your job mode, and we'd have to figure out what Can we buy an RV? What does that cost? What's the budget, and then once we like pretended to go all in and started kind of going through the motions, then it just became harder to stop. And so I think sometimes, like, when you're thinking about something that you want to do that feels big, I just say, like, pretend to go all in, like, give yourself like a timeframe, whether it's like few days, a week, or even a month, like, go all in on it. And, and just see, like how it feels. Because a lot of times the hesitation is just like breaking that seal of fear. And so we just kind of little by little sort of crossing crossing things off. And then we're like, oh, I guess we're doing this? Yeah, yeah, for sure. And but the thing at the same time, there wasn't that like certainty, though, you know, it wasn't like, we're going to be okay, because I'd done all this math, and we're good. It was just like, I'd rather fail at doing this, then wonder what could have been? And Jake's really good at thinking about like, well, what's the worst case scenario, we go out there? And we, you know, your business tanks and we go bankrupt, we go home and I get a job. And you know, that's it, or, like, we go out and we hate it. Okay, well, it has wheels, you turn around and you go back. So a lot of like, the worst case scenarios didn't seem that bad. Um, and so we're like, okay, let's, let's do it. And it was not smooth sailing. In the beginning, I will tell you that it was not like, heaven. You see, like the Instagram like, I'm just sipping my coffee in my home that's overlooking a mountain. It's like, well, that's probably like, you probably like, you know, didn't barely made it up the mountain because your truck didn't couldn't like Joe it enough. And it took you two hours to make coffee because you didn't have any power. And so it was not. It's not like this picturesque thing. But little by little, we kind of found our groove in it. And also like our roles, like, what does he do? What does I do? How do we do this work?

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I was gonna say that's an interesting thing is like trying to figure out some of those roles of like, where like, I mean, is it? Is it like a typical home where it's like, alright, I do the dishes and you do the laundry? Or is it like how? I mean, I'll fetch the pail of water and you go catch the fish like, yeah, like, what, what would have been some of those interesting roles that you didn't think about in the beginning? But then you're like, No, we need we need somebody to do this routinely for

us. I mean, I usually hunt and catch dinner. Jake's the gatherer.

Great, great, perfect.

Like he would make be so pissed right now, because he goes hunting every year, and he's never shot a deer before. But, um, so he's

a very, he's a very kind PETA, like, yeah.

So we kind of like, at first, it was just a cluster, because we were like, how do you tow this it actually arrived dented because the person that was delivering it, like, backed it in somewhere at a gas station. And so we have this massive dent in the back left of our Airstream, like literally before we even touched it. And at first we were like, Oh, my gosh, we have to get this fix. It's, you know, what are we going to do? And then we were like, well, if it's already dented, we're probably going to defend it again. Or like, scratch it up somehow, like, looks like we just got that out of the way. Yeah. So that kind of was funny, kind of, like changed our tone in the beginning of like, it's already it's like the first crash on your car, you just you stop holding your breath around it because you're like, well, already fucked it up. So you know, we're good. Let's like get that out of the way. Um, so as far as like our roles, it was a little confusing in the beginning because I was starting my like, I was running headbands of hope. But I was also trying to kind of like I had turned in my manuscript for chasing the bright side but I hadn't really gone all in on this like personal brand side, trying to build that Jake was like doing remote work for his like, sales job that he had Raleigh, and it just wasn't really working with as far as scheduled. And so we had we made this leap of like, I'm going to work and he's going to do all the logistics of this trip because we realized it was so there was so much to do, whether it was like reservations or even just navigation like sometimes you can't go on like regular roads when you're towing maintenance, all of it and so that in for a while it kind of changed the tone of my work for the worse because I felt like being the person that was working. I was like, this has to work. You know, like, before that I was just gonna throw shit at the wall. See what sticks like? Yeah, launch of course, like cool. I'm writing a book, whatever. But then when it's when I felt like I was putting that pressure on myself, like, work started to be like, Oh my gosh, this is like make or break, you know when it wasn't but um, you know, I worked out of that which we can get more into in a bit. But what we've kind of come to realize is like, Jake is really good at handling so many things that also allows me to, is going to make me sound super, like maybe bougie. It's like be in my, like best work mind, you know, if I am writing a book or launching a course or doing a webinar. But I'm also like, where are we going to sleep tonight like that those things don't work, where he's like, I got the reservation, I've gone grocery shopping, I've done all this. He does a lot more now actually, with my work. But he's really handled a lot of the logistics of the trip. So that way I can financially support it. Which is actually turned out to be like, my business grew because of going on this trip and just kind of like the unique part of it, which, yeah, was kind of weird, but also kind of cool.

Yeah, that's really cool. That's super cool. And here's the thing like, read before you went on this trip. You said you got married, right. And I was there. I remember it.

Yeah. Still, they're still they're

still there. It was it was a beautiful day. And

awesome officiant. It was just the best thing, not only my only air grievances that people talk about you more than they talk about me. I'm the bride. You know, I feel like the tension should have been on me, but it

sucks to suck. So no, you look, you look absolutely stunning that day. And yeah, it was it was so special to get to meet your family as well in that cool on that coolibah level at such a special time. But it's so interesting, because, you know, while we were going through the process of getting ready for your wedding, and we had a couple of meetings just so I can learn a little bit more about your love. It was It was super fun to have those conversations. And then it's one thing to talk about, right? It's one thing to dream about the RV trip, okay, here's what it's gonna be. We're gonna feed chipmunks. I'm gonna be snow whiteness, bitch. Right? Like, like, it's one thing to like, picture this thing, wake up to the sounds of mocking birds in New Hampshire, right? Like, whatever. And so like, it's all sounds beautiful. But then the rubber hits the road, quite literally. How has it been for your relationship? And while I mean, obviously, you're still together, so it's good. Publicity stunt. But, but I'd be curious to hear what was the what were some of the things that you had to learn pretty quickly about your relationship from the jump.

So I had to learn a little bit about our difference of like, our ambition, my ambition in my life is a lot like work driven, you know, I want to be this, do this, create this make this whereas Jake's is I want to feel this, I want to love this. I want to have a family and I want to be like a present Dad, I want to be supportive husband. And, you know, he had like a really great cushy, like sales job, you know, and we are Raleigh. And so it switching to, like looking at my income was it changed for a second our relationship where I felt like sometimes I had a bad habit of keeping score, like, like, while I'm doing all of this, you know, were like, What are you doing? And not that I didn't feel like he was doing anything, but I was like, Okay, we need to both be here. But I was only looking at that, in terms of this, like one track of ambition that was important to me. And with Jake, he is so present, like I guess it's the word and like, purposeful with how he lives his life. And that his success doesn't come from like how far he reaches in his job or in his career. But it's like, the lifestyle that he can make for me and him and our future kids. And the love that he can come at like with like, this morning, I was so frazzled about, you know, something that happened at work, and he made sure to just like close my laptop, like, like, let's sit like want to just talk to me about it and talk me through it and he's just so good at keeping See me grounded and because he has a totally different ambition mindset than I have. And for a while I was like, is that? Like, Do we understand each other? Does he understand my work? You know, does he understand what I'm trying to do? And now I realized that it's not just about understanding what he does, it's like this, the ultimate complement to it, because sometimes he needs to bring me down, because I'm like, way too, wound up about a video freezing or whatever. And so, it has been, like, a really interesting year, especially being in the air stream, to figure out how we work together. And like what our ambition is as a couple and not just as individuals?

No, it's got to be hard. Just in the beginning, maybe hard is not the right word. But it's got to be interesting, difficult, hard, whatever. When, as someone who is as driven as you are, right, crazy work ethic, right? started a company at 19 in college, or I'm bored, I'm going to start a company. And people wait till after I'm not doing that, right, started company, time for that. I come on now. And so, but like, you're someone who hustles, right, you have ideas. And then those ideas come to life because of your work ethic, and the team that you've built around you. When you think about that, it would be easy for us to also be like, well, I need to have a partner that also matches my hustle, right? Like we got to be out there like banging on full cylinders. And like hell, yeah, we're going like, we're constantly like igniting each other's fireworks. Right? And we're just going out getting after it done. But what was that process like for you in recognizing that, where Jake is and how Jake is was actually super helpful for you and what you needed? And in that moment, where you're like, oh, wait, this is actually really this is a really important into my Yang. And what was that moment? Like? And how did that come out? Was that something that that he'd call you out? Just be like, Oh, this is me. Right? Or? Or was it? Like, you know, what happened?

Well, let me rewind a little bit, because I thought for a while that, um, you know that that was what I was going to be looking for, like someone that was going to be just this ultimate go getter, and just, I'll sleep when I'm dead hustle mentality, because that was like, what I subscribe to. And I dated some of those guys, like, you know, and it was a nightmare. Like, I felt like every day was like, Well, what did you do today? Because I, you know, drank like raw egg for breakfast. And then I, you know, break down all these push ups and like, all this stuff, and so I feel like I did, um, date some of those guys. And it just felt like it wasn't fueling our fire. It was like, competing. And a lot of guys are intimidated by a woman who maybes like, is going for it. And that, there were some Yeah, there were some guys that like, tried to are like, Oh, you're doing headbands? Like, that's cute. And just like, oh my god, you gotta be kidding me. And, you know, I wasn't gonna allow anyone to make me feel small. And then when I met Jake, his mindset was like, what, like, his role in our relationship, or part of his role? He takes as he takes, like, pride in the things that I create, because he know he was a part of creating them. And the confidence that I have, I'm sorry, I almost just cried. Like, the, the confidence that he's given me, sorry. He, um, like, I don't think I would be able to create the things that I create, without feeling as good as I do. Because he's made me feel like I am like, the best person in the world. And so I don't think I could show up on social media or show up and stand in front of 1000s of people, or show up and host these, like, virtual conferences, you know, in front of people all over the world without someone standing three feet away from me because we live in an Airstream. That's like, You're the fucking best. You know, like, I don't think I would have been able to do any of that. Had he not seen that in me? So he is so much a part of like, whatever I've done, but also in the technical side. I mean, he's like, we've been bombarded, hosting this virtual conference for authors and he's on customer service emails today, like Like making sure everyone's chill and like answering questions and so he's like, not afraid of being he doesn't care about being the face he he's gonna roll up his sleeves and make sure like that are like we both have that same Northstar. So yeah, I'll stop there

no need I was in it y'all welled up over here. I mean, I'm sad. So

I think lashes are gonna fall off.

Yeah, mine too girl you kiding me it's getting windy over here. I'm bad my eyes so much. But that is I mean, that's beautiful. Right and and it's beautiful. And I think you know, obviously the fact you did a little bit of trial and error on the front end and you dated those individuals that are out here getting gains with Z. Right? And that that wasn't your type of folk. That's I mean, that's, that's awesome that you learned that. And that doesn't necessarily mean that in the middle of the hustle that you that there wasn't a little bit of tension, right? You talked a little bit about that now where it was just like, No, we got to move. No, we got to go this is it. Right and but having somebody to slow you down is so beautiful, is really important. And it's it's something that I don't often ask for. It's something that I don't even necessarily know that that I wanted or needed. In my previous relationship. I certainly had that. But almost too much. And I kind of went with someone who has like, oh, no, everybody say opposites attract. And so you should be in a relationship with someone who's very different than you. And I found someone who has an incredible human being. And it was very different than me. And it just didn't quite work for various reasons, and a number of which are my fault, but keeping it moving. But the thing is, is that, you know, in my new relationship, I recently started counseling again, because I'm trying to do a little bit of work on I just on me, you know, want to give myself a little bit of time and whatnot. And one of the questions that the counselor asked me was, you know, she said, You know, I hear that you say you beat yourself up a lot, you don't let yourself have the winds, you don't hear compliments. You don't take compliments. You don't think you deserve them, and whatnot. And I'm like, yep, yep, sounds right. Sounds right. Yep. That's what I just said. And then she said, Well, how about when Tina, your wife complements you? How does that go. And in the beginning, when we first started going steady, like it didn't. And when she complimented me, it just kind of flew in one ear and out the other as a guy, you're supposed to love me. And this is young love, and you're just nice. And you're a soft midwesterner. And you're right. Like I whatever, whatever the thing is that I would insert in some of those moments, that we're all stories that I told myself, so that I didn't actually hear her compliment as a real one. And that was really hard for me, that was really hard for me, to switch. And to start realizing that wait, maybe she actually does mean these things. Maybe she actually does think the world of me and believe in me and think that what I put out is worthy of other people's opinions and thoughts and whatnot. And it took me a while to get to that place. But it's so powerful. That moment that you spoke about, where you just kind of succumbed to, I'm gonna let this person love me the way that they can love me the best, right? And that's what Jake does for you. And it's really incredible to watch what he does, because, you know, a lot of times, like if we're gonna look at a car, and you're like, Yo, this car range got 500 horsepower, she's gonna put you down a quarter mile sub 11 seconds. And it's like, beautiful engine. But don't ever think about the grease and the oil that actually makes the engine run because a lot of us don't care about that. We don't want to focus on that. We want to focus on the big sexy idea. But people like Jake, are down to get greasy. Right and get in there and answer these customer service emails. No one wants no one's like, hell yeah, I want to do customer service emails. Right? Like, that's terrible. Right? No one's like, hell, yeah, grocery shopping, let's go unless they have kids, and they want to get away from them. Um, but the thing is, is that it's really beautiful that you had this moment that you had this moment where you're like, No, maybe you are exactly what I need, even though we're in different places. And I think, I don't know, I just think it's really beautiful to listen to the way that you talked about it, and you've talked about him.

Yeah. And we've talked about it before to where he feels like he's dreaming more because of me, you know, and, and, like, He now plays like a pretty prominent role in our business. And, you know, he Like, had it not been for us getting together, he might not be living this entrepreneur lifestyle or whatever, because he played football his entire life. And so his whole life was so structured, it's like, now you work out, you got to practice what you eat today, you know, you go to class or whatever. And so me coming in, we're like, I don't know what's gonna happen today. But I hope we don't lose money like that. That's it. And so I feel like we both tugged a little bit about like, where we were both standing. And we have enough common values and similarities to where our differences are actually synergistic. And I think that that's where, like, in relationships, where differences can play together, is like, Yeah, I'm a I'm a go getter. I'm a hustler. Jake's more, let's think this through. Let me like, put together more of a strategy, like, let me see what other people have done. Yeah, more pragmatic. But that like, top 10% of like, why we're doing this, why it's important, what we hope to achieve is the same. So when that's the case, like, our differences are actually freaking awesome. Like, the other day, we got, like, the IRS was like, you didn't pay your taxes was like, Well, yeah, we did. And like, that's like a call you never want to get. And he was the one that was like, Well, I'm gonna call the IRS and tell him, like, show him our receipt number. And then I'm like, that sounds like my root canal, like spending two hours, like calling the IRS to show them that we paid our taxes, and he's like, got to do it, because we got to move, you know, and, and so he's happy to do that stuff. Because he knows that it's like, okay, this is adding to that 10% that we both want to do. Um, so I think when you think about relationships, in terms of differences, it's like, that's great. Like, it's okay to be different, as long as you have the same things that you're aspiring to together and like those same values, which I know sounds like super cliche, but it couldn't be more apparent in like the setup that we have now.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, that's beautiful. That's really beautiful, Jess. And what it's enabled you to do is it's enabled you to stay that same business minded, like go getter that you are right, like, I mean, one thing that is so super impressive at you is that you put out a lot of products, and you put out a lot of things. And that's something that I know that, you know, just to speak candidly, this, there's moments where I'm envious of it, where it's like, how was she doing another thing? I got that I'm still working on my one thing, like how she got another thing right over here. And it's just, it's really, it's really cool to watch it. And then I'm like, and she's doing all this from the woods in Montana. And what are you doing, bro? Right, you know what I mean? And so it's interesting, it's obviously we can always write stories about somebody else's success, right. And we can easily turn those into stories of ourselves as well, like you're not doing enough. We all know that comparison is the thief of joy, and, and whatnot. And so comparing ourselves never really wins. And so I try to shut that down. But the thing that we were talking about that was really beautiful, is that because of some of the strength that you yourself came into the game with some of your hustle that you yourself came with. And then you combine that with some of the with some of the love that Jake gives you and and some of the belief that he gives you and it kind of makes you this unstoppable juggernaut, right, this beautiful beacon of like, bucket. Let's go try it. And that's one of the things that I admire the most about you is that you're very you come from a place of like, let's say, let's just see. And I'm wondering if you could speak a little bit to that, because not everybody has the fortitude to just be like, I'm gonna see this through. I'm gonna put out this product, right? A lot of people have ideas. A lot of people even brainstorm, but not a lot of people start putting the pen to the paper and dream about the RV trip to the point where they actually do it. Not a lot of people come to the idea of like, hey, there are kids who I could really help out a lot. And just a small tiny cheap headband would put smiles on 1000s and hundreds of 1000s of faces. How can I figure out how to get headbands to hundreds of 1000s of kids with cancer? I'm gonna figure it out. Right? A lot of us have those ideas, but we don't see it through. Where do you think some of that fortitude comes in your life? Like, where'd Where did you develop that?

Yeah, that's a really good question. Um, because right now if I'm thinking about it, I'm like, Okay, I'm constantly running like a cost. benefit analysis in my head, I'm like, this is something I want, what would be the gain? And what would be the risk? Or what would I have to do in terms of time and money to make it happen? And so it seems very like formulaic. Now. One time. I, someone's called me impulsive. And it was someone that it was like, it was a higher than I made, it wasn't working out. And she was just like it. Yeah, it was just not a great situation. She said, that was she's like, well, you're just so impulsive about things. And I'm gonna, you know what, impulsivity has never has never been a bad thing for me. Because, like, anytime I pulled a trigger on something, it either works out and I was like, quick to fire and, or it didn't. And I have like, all of this information that like I didn't have before. And I tried to be respectful of like, what I asked for my team and not like running fire drills, like, now we're doing this, like now, you know, and making sure that everyone's like, you know, can catch up on that speed. Um, but like, you know, the opposite of impulsive is, you know, just like, analysis paralysis, and I'm like, I just don't think that I've never met someone that's like, I'm really successful, because I've thought everything through. It's like, because you can think everything through. And it's still not going to go the way that you thought it was going to. So you might as well just go for it. But as far as, like, where it came from, um, you know, it's funny, like, as kid like, as a kid, I feel like my parents were never these, like, I'm gonna lecture you and give you all these life lessons. But the way that they lived their life was that style of just like, why not like my mom, biked from New York to California, like on a bicycle. And she loves biking. And one time, when she was in college, she went to George Washington, DC, and she lived in New York, and she was going to go home for Thanksgiving. But she, and she decided to bike she was like, I'm just gonna bike home from Washington, DC to Long Island, like, in she was just like, I'll just figure it out. Like, there was no like Google Maps, or whatever she like, hopped in some guy's truck at one point, because they wouldn't allow bikes across this certain bridge. And she's like, whatever happens, like, I'm just gonna figure it out, like, it's gonna be fine. And my dad, you know, he played, he played division one football, just like, constantly just going for it. And so I feel like when I would look at their life, that they lived and continued to live. In my dad, like, one day, just when I was in middle school, he had a really great job as like a general manager for like health club, and was just like, I have this really great idea. And I want to do it, and quit his job and started this company, turned our upstairs bathroom into his office, hire my mom to run customer service. 10 years later, they sold it and lived in an RV. So it was like, I was constantly witnessing this impulsivity to follow your passions and this understanding that you like you only have one life. And I would be lying if I didn't acknowledge the fact that like my family went through some serious shit when I was in high school being involved in this like, pretty public scandal where I think it also just reminded us that like, this is all we got, because like, we can't control anything that happens clearly. So if there's something that you want, might as well just go for it. Um, and I will say, it's gotten a little bit harder, you know, as time has gone on more, I feel like the fish tank has had more of an audience, you know, because I think sometimes it's easier to fail when no one's watching. And then all of a sudden, you feel like you're in front of more people. Now, like, what would happen if this doesn't work out? Um, so I think I've gotten like, I have to stay true to that, because it's gotten a little bit harder to maintain as my platform has gotten bigger.

Yeah. Where does that pressure come in? Like, as you mentioned, like, I'm just curious, like, as your platform has gotten bigger, you said it's gotten harder? Why is it is it because is it feel like, there's the fall feel like it's from higher now? Or is it feel like because you're letting more people down? Is it because you think that individuals have these expectations of you and now you need to hit those expectations? Like, where, like, what was some of that emotion commit?

Well, I'm currently trying to figure that out and because it has been such like been giving me this, like debilitating anxiety that I'm just not on board with. And like, you know, for example, on Monday, like Tina is a part of this Writers Conference that I'm hosting. And one of the first videos that we did live, like ended up freezing. And I literally thought that I like, was like, Oh my gosh, all of these people are now like, who does just think she is running a conference when she can't get her video to play. And I'm like, I am spending these time creating this narrative for people that like, they probably aren't even saying. And the reality is, is like, people probably think a lot less like about me than I think that they actually do. But it's just those, like, when you reach more people, there's gonna be people that don't like you. And there's gonna be people that are like, I don't agree with what you said, or I didn't like your, this or that, or whatever you put out there. And so though, that small percentage of people, let's say it's 2% gets exponentially like, louder, you know, in your mind, rather than the 98% of people who are like, hell yeah, this is life changing. So for me, it's like understanding that, that 2% is a part of the package deal. If you look at Brene, brown, if you look at anyone who is like doing something with their life, where they have this cult following, they all have that 2%. So, um, for me, I think that the 2% is new. Because I'm just now seeing these numbers. And I think it's just getting a little bit like, I'm, I'm just learning how to manage that. If that makes sense of like, how what do I make this mean? Do I listen to it? Do I not even read it? Do I respond? Like, it's just 20 different questions that come through your head to the point where you literally are like, blocking out all of this other amazing stuff that's happening. Yeah.

Yeah. takes over. It takes over your whole your whole thread of life. Yeah, that's fascinating to think about, right? Because I mean, obviously, Ellen DeGeneres this summer found her to present to you now, but she's back out here doing her thing.

But I like your monologue. When she came back. I thought it was good.

I thought she handled it. I thought she handled it well. And they'll be curious to see what the action looks like behind the scenes. That's ultimately what it really looked like. But, uh, but you know, I was listening to you mentioned Brene Brown, I was listening to one of my favorites. One of my favorite podcasts that I listened to was called armchair experts with Dax Shepard. And he hands down. Yeah, for sure. It's so good. As you can tell, an influence here, for sure. And he had Brene. Brown on and one question they asked Brene was, you know, what is it like to be I mean, you're, you're a scholar, you're all of these things. And now people see you as this icon. He's like, you know, what is it like to be you like, do you have individuals, you know, I'm sure there's plenty of people around you that are getting burned out. And they feel like they need to live up to these crazy expectations, and have this insane output and do everything perfectly. And like, you know, when they're walking through the grocery store, they gotta have the perfect kids and stuff like that. And Brene Brown, they just started laughing. And she's like, that's where I did one of the most unintentionally smart things that I've done in my life. And she's like, and I branded myself as the authenticity woman. She's like, I branded myself as the woman who, like, I mess up all the time. And like, that's part of my story and part of my stick. And so I'm just like, I don't know, I don't know how you didn't see this coming. Yes, that is my kid throwing a tantrum in the grocery aisle, because I'm not perfect. Right. And so it's really interesting to think about that because as you are developing the brand that is Jess extra, um, I think you have done an incredible job of humanizing yourself. And I think that's one of the reasons why this, you know, this, this, this glitch in the Writers Conference is really nothing. Right? And it's also one of the reasons why I mean, the other day you posted about how you recorded two hours of video and you found out that your mic was muted, right. But it's interesting, cuz you've also kind of with the addition of your book chasing the bright side, you have also a little bit branded yourself as the optimism woman. And so there's a pressure that I could see potentially getting put on you to not have good days or to not have bad days, or do not have bad, right? It's like, Hey, I went through this shitty thing. And now I got to find the bright side because I wrote a damn book about it. What if it just stuck? And it's stupid? Yeah, yeah. That's interesting. You put on yourself but yet, the people that love you and follow you are down for it, or they're down for the slips in the struggles. And they appreciate, right. I mean, that's a lot of what I, I know, that I teach to audiences is, is that idea that we have to teach to those slips and struggles, because that's where Hannity law if we're relatability is, yeah, but super hard to do that, while you're growing a brand that you think everything you do matters, because you're excited about it. And it hasn't had this completely proven success model yet, where it's kind of on autopilot. And it's still kind of new and growing. Yeah, let's Yeah. Interesting to hear about.

It's interesting, because, um, you know, I want to show up as myself, you know, and that's like, I didn't realize like, sometimes how hard would that would be because people are like, Oh, you're the headbands girl, like, you must be like, Mother Teresa. I'm like, Well, I actually first like the sailor. And, you know, that's, that's me. And I thought it was funny with Ellen in her opening monologue, she was like, you know, I was labeled as this, like, be kind person. And she's like, I don't recommend doing that. Because that's like, part of me, but it's not all of me. And being the the optimism person that chasing the bright side, like, if people read the book, they understand that, like, optimism is actually not about the happy times, it's about having the shitty days and, and then using them to create something better. And there's no timeline for that. Like, it took me 11 years to make sense of, you know, my, what happened in high school and with my family, it just because you don't see the bright side yet doesn't mean that that like silver lining isn't developing. But it was actually I haven't told anyone this before. But I finally like I was like, Okay, this might have been like, a year ago, I was like, I'm going to just start showing up as myself on social media in what I do. Like, I'm not going to try to hold back, my sense of humor, you know, and all of it and I was traveling somewhere. And I was flying Frontier Airlines, which is like, not my favorite airline. And I posted some Instagram story about like, um, Wouldn't it be funny if frontier had like, a lounge, you know, in airports where they like, if frontier had an airline lounge, they would serve like half eaten granola bars, or if frontier frontier had an airline lounge, it would be like, bring your own chair, or like, you know, all in I just kind of like went on this rip of like, if frontier had this airline lounge, it'd be like, you know, all this stupid stuff. And this person, you know, replied back and was just like, you know, I've been following you for a while. And like, this just doesn't feel like you. It feels icky. Like, even though you don't like frontier, like, people still work there and did it until I just like, took it down. Because I had this panic. I was like, Oh, my gosh, people saw the real me and they didn't like it. You know? And I think that is such a like a real thing that sometimes people in our industry experience is like, Yes, I'm the person on stage that can make you laugh, and, you know, give you the lesson. But like, if you see all of me, will you still like me? Where I have like, kind of a crude sense of humor. I have like these a lot of these flaws. And everyone does. But it's a matter of like, do you choose to lead with them? And do you choose to let people into that, or you're going to kind of try to stay firm on this? Like, be in this glass case of like, This is who I am to the public? This is who I am in private? I don't want to have that distinction. Um, so yeah, it's like, it's been weird, trying to figure out like, I want to show up as myself. But I know I'm going to lose people, if I do that. But maybe that also means I'm going to gain the right people to. So yeah, it's been kind of interesting.

Sure. Yeah, I mean, we we're not going to go down too deep into this rabbit hole. But we have a mutual friend named Brittany, who has certainly been posting some very profound opinions that are very polarizing. Right? And that those are her thoughts, and she's posting about it. And it's interesting to watch the way she's gaining followers by posting more controversial things. And you wonder, like, what's going on there, right. And so it's a fascinating way to do it, for sure. But just fear not to quote John Legend, all of me loves all of you. And so I'm excited that you are experimenting with what it looks like to be authentic and be congruent across all of your platforms.

But I think the answer, sorry to interrupt. The answer came to me with the Black Lives Matter movement, which I'm so glad you have that in your room right now, but I decided, you know, it wasn't even a decision, it was like a no brainer that I was like, Yes, this is what I'm going to use my platform for this year, and I'm going to be a part of this movement, I am going to, you know, I'm going to be a part of the conversation. And I'm going to bring, like my black friends on to talk to people, I am going to I given my Instagram account to some of my black friends to take over. Like, I want to use my platform to be a part of this. And I lost, like, when you looked at like my Instagram analytics, it was like, there was a loss, but then there was also a gain of new people. And I'm like, I love that. Because those people who aren't standing behind this, like, I don't want to waste my breath on you, you know, like, this is not for you, if you don't want to be a part of this discussion. And I'm so glad that people who do also found me from this. So I feel like the aftermath of standing for something is you're giving people a chance to react to you. And you can't control what that reaction is going to be. All you can control is what you stand for. So focusing more on what I stand for, in a way that makes sense to me and feels good to me. People, the right, people are going to find me and the wrong people are going to drop off. So I feel like I kind of found that clarity. The past couple of months, actually.

Yeah, it was beautiful to watch the way you used your platform as well, I thought you did it in a really, in a really humbling way, in a really honest way, where it's kind of like, you know, hey, I don't know everything, but I'm trying to learn and you posted a lot. And, you know, I know, You've been very, very outspoken about Brianna Taylor. And so today is a little bit of bullshit unfortunate with with learning about what is not going to be happening to the people who murdered her. And the police officers that is that murdered her. And, and so, but the I like the way that you just put it that, you know, I want I looked at the analytics. And yeah, there was a drop off. But also there was this bump. And that's so hard. I know for me, I've talked about on here before that I have an Achilles heel that I need individuals to like me. And it's hard. It's hard to figure out. It's all good. All these all these

always routing for you

to go off some. So but you know, I have an Achilles heel where I need people to like me. And so sometimes what that looks like for me is I'm going to be authentic and vulnerable, but in a way that I have this little package that I'm going to share with you, right? It's like, no, here's my authentic moment, here's my thing. And like I'm going to deliver that to you in a controlled manner, especially often to strangers and big audiences that won't hold me accountable. Right. And so it's interesting to note, the way that we often share ourselves, and and what comes from it, because I know I'm getting better at being more vulnerable. It's one of the reasons why I love this this podcast, because it's like, yo, let's talk about it. Let's put it out there now and, and so getting over that fear of people not liking me, though, is definitely an uphill battle. Right. I know, right now is I we moved to a new place a year ago. And I'm, you know, in a desperate search for friends and people to like, be here because I want to spend time with people. And then COVID came through and said, Hold my beer. But, but it's interesting, that process of trying to get individuals to like you and want to hang out with you and think about you, you know, on the friendship side, but also on the follower side on the customer side. And so we see a bunch of celebrities that try to shoot the middle, and it just doesn't work, we lose respect for individuals that are trying to only stay in the middle. And so I think it's really beautiful what you have done and that you've just been like, no, screw it, this is who I am. I'm gonna put myself out there, take it or leave it.

And also, like, I feel like a part of that, too, is being able to recognize where you have room for growth and that, you know, it's not just like, oh, yeah, this is what I stand for. It's like, yeah, I stand for this. But now I also realize that like, some of my, what I stand for my beliefs haven't matched up with these actions, like on the speaker circuit, you know, I speak a lot and I'm always getting asked by events like Who should we bring in next? And I always had these kind of core three women that I thought were great speakers and I realized all three of those women were white. And so I think like a part of it. I'm a part of the discussion and I wanted to be a part of was not just like an educator mode. That's the other thing I think about people in this space is like, a bone that I have to pick is like, speakers, writers, all this, they're so quick to teach the lesson, but so hesitant to share their personal experience, like where they fell short. And I don't want to do that, like, I'm not like, I've realized it's important to to, like treat everyone equally. And it's just like, Well, yeah, no shit. But where have I been like a part of the problem? So I can be a part of the solution, because something that I've learned being in this space is that people only go as deep as you go. So if I am telling people like, oh, you everyone should be treated equally. People are like, cool. Yeah, I agree. But if I'm like, Look, I've been a part of the problem, because I realize I've only been referring white women speaking engagements, like this is how I'm going to be part of the solution where I'm only referring women of color moving forward. Like, what are what are you doing? Like, where can you find like, Where have you been baked into an ecosystem or a pattern where you don't even realize that you've been a part of the problem? And so I think that, like, the vulnerability side, too, has been big in recognizing where I fall short.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. It's really hard to realize that you learned a really comfortable version of history, and you've been living a really patterned life, and then be like, oh, shoot, maybe I'm not helping. Right, totally hurting, but I'm not helping. And what does helping look like? Yeah, I think that's been one of the most beautiful thing that's come out of, you know, some of the last four or five months in our countries. A lot of people have learned that. Yeah. And so

do you feel like you in order to like, teach something or speak on something that you have to have mastered it?

No, I don't believe so. No, I, I think I think that individuals think they have to complete the task before they turn around and help someone else with it. So help someone else with it. I think they're missing a huge opportunity, right? When I think about my role models, for example, I think about individuals that I think are two or three years ahead of me. Now, I'm not just an age, maybe in business or in whatnot. Right? And and I think individuals that have two or three years ahead of me, because they're breadcrumbs haven't disintegrated yet, right. And so when I think of great speakers that I admire, right, like I put, I put you on that list, and I put some other individuals that, like, I'm still seeing you try and not quite hit it out of the park, then hit it out of the park and whatnot. I'm like, Okay, that's great, because I'm currently in the state of flux of trying, and that gives more confidence to try watch. So watching someone along the way. So yeah, that's why I tell people not to just like, quote other people, and then drop the mic. Right? It's like, No, I want you to follow it up with your quote with your story. Because I'm going to be

100% of the shots you don't take away. Wayne Gretzky, Michael Scott. Yeah.

Yeah, Wayne Gretzky, you're my hero. Yeah, choose your favorite. So, um, but yeah, I mean, we have to teach through our own stories. Because that the power of relatability is critical, right? When we see ourselves in somebody else we believe that we can. And so teaching through relatability is critical. For sure.

Yeah. No, I totally agree. I think for me, it's like 10%. If I feel like I am 10%, ahead of whatever this is, then I can teach it. But I think the the downfall for people is to have this false sense of like mastery, of like, anytime that in order to write a book or to be a speaker, then I have to be the the person, you know, the guru, I have to have, like, created a new law of gravity or whatever it might be. And that's just not the case. And I love that about you. And I think you're right, I think that people have to be able to see yourself in them in order to feel like it could be then

that's a story that we tell ourselves, write a story that we can since consistently tell ourselves is I need to do blank before I can do blank, right? We see the speaker all the time, I need to write a book in order to be a speaker, or do I need to start a company in order to do this or I need to do like in order to do this, that that thing that we put in the middle is a story. That is a barrier that we've put in our own way. There are very few things that we need to do before we want to do the thing we want to do, right? Like for example, if you want to be a doctor, I'm gonna need you to go to medical Cool, okay, like don't skip that. Right? Don't be like. Yeah. Right. Like, for most of our goals for most of our goals that we have, especially when it comes to like starting businesses or writing projects, or, or just even hobbies, we tell ourselves, well, it's I got in order to do that I got to learn, I got to lose 30 pounds, and then I can do this, or I got a blank before I can blank. Those are lies, those are stories that we tell ourselves that keep us from moving.

Yeah, no 100% is and I can be so guilty of that. Not even like, I have to be able to do this to do that. But I have to be able to do this to feel this way. So like, you know, I have to be able to sell a certain amount of copies in order to feel like chasing the bright side was a successful book, you know, I have to be able to, like, have this amount of people in my course, in order to feel like I've actually created a good course. And I think that, like when we do that, we are just delaying the joy that we worked so hard to, like arrive at. So I know we've talked about this before, but like, I just I think that it's a sometimes it's the gas in my tank, you know, that I'm like, never fully satisfied. But it's also the thief of my joy, you know, of like, when do I kick my heels up at the end of the day? You know, is it when I'm dead? Like because I don't want that?

Yeah, right. I knew I had a problem with one of my favorite quotes was sleep is for people that don't have any plans. Right. Maybe that's what I knew I had a problem. I don't know. I don't know. I don't want to talk about. But yeah, no, for sure. And I love I love what you said, right? And we could quote Hamilton all day, you'll never be satisfied. And like, you know, why do we always write like we're running out of time. And, and that is something that we need to take moments to pause and just take that beat and be like, the world existed before me. The world is gonna exist after me. Everyone. Yeah, we need to remember that. And

have you ever unplugged before for like, an extended period of time? Like a week or something?

I did? Yes. I did it for a week and a half. Right around the time of my divorce. I went and I stayed in this adorable a frame just outside of Montpelier, Vermont. You're the only state capitol that doesn't have a McDonald's in it. But but so I went tonight. Exactly. You're welcome. But we'll come with the hard facts here on diner talks. But David is a frame, it had a mini fridge a little love seat. And then upstairs was a queen mattress on a on the floor. And no Wi Fi no anything. And I went up there to kind of process why I was going through the potential end of a relationship. What did I What had I done to get us to this point? What did I not done to get to this point, and also there was this pit in my stomach that I was just like, I'm not happy. But I couldn't name it. And that was hard. It was hard to just tell my parents well, I'm just not happy. And they're like, figure it out. Right? And understandably so. But I was like I'm gonna figure it out and so I unplugged that's when I got into meditation also, and just try to practice some some mindfulness that's also when I only bought grocery deli, I bought deli turkey and deli cheese because all I thought I deserved to eat were roll ups and so that was a cool moment in my life. Sure, torturing yourself torturing myself.

At least get the mayo and mustard put on a Tom on

your list that is roll ups.

Did it work? Did it work? Did you come out on the other side feeling like you made sense of it? Or?

Yes. Yeah, I came out of the other side of clarity, which is really which was really powerful. And how,

how was the first two days though?

The first few days were just me beating the shit out of myself. Yeah, right. And just like you're a terrible person. I can't believe you did this. I can't believe we're in this place. No one deserves this was also me learning that as someone who so desperately to be liked by other individuals and who has always been, you know, people's friends and looked up to and sought after for advice and whatnot. It's like how You now all of a sudden, the person who's doing this to somebody else, and I learned that I have the power and the capacity to hurt somebody now, which I didn't think I had the capacity to do. And that that taught me a lot. And so yeah, but I came out of the other side with a whole bunch of clarity. And, yeah, and knowing a little bit more what work I needed to do.

Yeah, I feel like the first few days, whenever we're in a place that doesn't have service, or like, we've arrived at a park that I'm not going to have, you know, any Wi Fi or whatever, for a week, the first few days are Anxi, because you have these patterns of like, Oh, I'm sitting on the toilet, I'm gonna check my phone, I'm, you know, whatever, like, I'm going to listen to me, like, and you have, you realize that you just like, so much of what's baked into your life is being anywhere from where you actually are. And so it's always and the funny part is, is like, whenever I arrive at a place where I know, I'm not going to have service, I'm like, great, this is the time for me to realize all the shit that's like, in me that I didn't know existed. And, like, I am, like, waiting there to be like, enlightened and like, why isn't it happening yet. And I put this like, pressure on myself. And so it takes a few days, I feel like when you actually like, unplug, to get silent and be okay, with just your own thoughts. Um, and, and then the other part of it, I think this is like how I started thinking of it was like, you think that like the world is going to end without your connection? And I'm like, Why do I think so highly of myself, I'm like, I come back. And I'm, like, dreading opening my inbox. And like, what is gonna happen? Did it, like did everything crash and burn? And it's like, oh, sales went up since you've been gone. And we actually got like, a lot more done. And I'm like, Okay, that's good news. And bad news for me, because great, you guys can handle it. But I'm also not as important as I thought I was. So it's always like a gut check. For me, whenever we go somewhere where I physically can't have any kind of connection to the outside world, I'm like, you know, it's all fine.

Especially in the middle of the growth that you're currently experiencing. Right? Like, that's, that's, that's gotta be hard, for sure. And it's one thing to hire a team that you trust, it's another thing to then trust them.

Right. So true, so true. Like I've been, you know, I made a lot of hires this year, actually, some really big hires. And it was so funny, because it's like, at a point where, literally, like, my speaking income plummeted, like all like so financially was probably has been, like, the worst year of my life. But I'm like, this is I committed that this is going to be a build year, where it's like, I have never not been on a plane every week, I have never had so much stillness in time. So it's like, let me build something magnificent. And take this risk by sort of like getting people on my team to do that. Um, but, and I immediately, like, found myself as soon as these people came on, jumping into my old habits, where I was like, Well, I know how to do this. So like, let me just go, you know, change this hyperlink on the website, or like, you know, it would just be easier if I went and designed all these emails, and I'm just like, Why did you bring all these people on your team? Give up, like, almost all of your finances, do it for you to just change a fucking hyperlink. It's like, what you know. And so you really have to, like some point, say to yourself, like, the best thing that I can be doing right now is doing the thing that I do best. And that's not changing the hyperlink on the website is speaking, writing telling my story and helping other women do the same thing. And everyone else can fill in the blanks, and they're better at it than I am.

Yeah, the best thing that I can be doing right now is doing the thing that I am best at. My friend. I love her. We kind of brought it back at RBG quote that I quoted earlier. And and what an incredible quote to end on as well. Jess, there's a segment that I love to do on this show and I forgot to do it with you, but I still want to and so I think we're gonna end on it instead of doing it in the middle. And so, so it's a segment that I like to call here's some things that you didn't know about me that you now are glad that you do. Okay should know this that the name of the segment changed Every single week, but the point stays the same. And so just Let's lighten it up after a brilliant conversation, I want to know some random facts about you, I'll share one first, I'll share one first. And then and that'll throw it back at you. So every single day, from kindergarten, until basically, in my senior ish year, in high school, my mother would make me lunch before school, very grateful for her, what she would make is a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and then do two cookies. And that's all I had for lunch for the entirety of my, over the entirety of my of my schools tenure. And so schools tenure, that wasn't the right my tenure in school. And and so that was it. And at one point, she we added in a juice box, it was like Kool Aid, squeeze it now, which is a terribly designed thing. It's cool. It's squeezing if you remember, do you remember the squeezes? Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah. And so they're filled all the way up to the top. And the only way that you can you got it, you have to squeeze it and then twist the top in order for it to come out. But then inevitably Kool Aid goes everywhere Kool Aid, the most notorious staining thing in the world. It wasn't, it wasn't good, but and the Kool Aid would would serve as a steamroller, and it would roll into a fine paste my peanut butter and jelly sandwich, and I would smash both cookies, but at least I had something to drink with my lunch. And that's what I had for lunch in elementary school through high school.

Oh my gosh, okay, so mine aren't as elaborate. Something you should know about me is like, I can handle a lot of things. But I can not handle a nail file. you file your nails in front of me. I'm gone. Like, we might not ever talk again. Like that's how bad it is. Like it is. I literally have goosebumps talking about nail files right now. I just there's something about it. That just sends a shiver down my spine. So there's that. But then also when you were talking, it made me think about wuntch. And I feel like when I got good at sales and like kind of figuring out like, what do people need? And what do they want, was in the elementary school cafeteria, my mom would always pack me these. She's a health nut. So she's like, Oh, I packed you these like, you know, peanut wraps with like kale or, you know, whatever it is, oh my God, I don't want this. I just want to get like a burger like everyone else. And I want to Twinkies are like, what were those things with? Oatmeal raisin and like the cream in the middle Little Debbie. Debbie. I was like, I need that. Right? And so I would like come up with ways to like add a compelling trade to my lunch of like, how do I convince someone with the like, fried chicken sandwich to take this salad that I don't want at all. And so I think that that was like where I truly got started in like discovering how to talk to people and figuring out what their pain points are and like how to manipulate it. I'm not gonna be doing but you know what I mean? Like, I think that that was like that was the start for sure.

That's incredible.

Oh, and then I would always eat dessert first and the teacher would get mad. She's like, you can't eat your cookie first. I was like, if I eat the cookie and then the sandwich or if I eat the sandwich and then the cookie like what's the difference? I don't understand why this is a rule like so. That was something I started to feel pretty passionate about for me on age.

Started started early with your rebellious streak I remember what shows for like Yeah, well yeah, of course naturally natural. Yeah. And as long as we're on the topic a little Debbie's whenever you eat those those magic brownie bars what I do is I eat all the the brownie part person I think the icing often lately I eat the icing last.

Wow, savor it. Savor it

is the best part. Yeah,

I mean, that's what I do with Oreos, but that's like a bold move to do that with the brownies. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's a strategy to go wrong.

Your audio one leads me to my last fact. And that is one of the one thing that I did to Tina one time that she'll never let me let go and understandably so I don't think she should. And I'm a proponent for letting most things go. But she should hold on to this is that, you know, we were driving one time we were driving one time and she and we got to a rest stop and she had gotten some Oreos, and she was eating the Oreos and eating the Oreos the way you're supposed to right where you take the top Often you eat the cookie part first. And so she had taken the top off and eaten the cookie part first. And then I reached over and grabbed the cream side and shoved it into my mouth.

Oh my god, you shouldn't be in jail. Okay, well, okay, can I say one more thing? And then we can be done? Oh, yeah, for sure. Jake and I just started dating. And we've been dating for a couple months. And I'm still in the phase where I'm like, I'm the cool girlfriend, anything goes like you can't upset me like Lisa's, you know, we're just having fun. And so that was the phase that I was in. And then we went to dinner, and we ordered an appetizer and there were these mac and cheese balls. So they come to the table with these for mac and cheese balls, just

like cheesecake factory.

Tell me if you were at dinner with Tina, and for mac and cheese balls hit the table. How many would you get? How many would she get?

Ideally, we do two and two. Okay. Yeah, I would also secretly hope that she would like be like, I just want one and a half.

But I'm not that kind of girl. So that's my love Tina. So we're eating and like, I'm eating my mac and cheese while he's eating his. He goes for another one. I'm like, cool, you know, sounds good. I'm still eating my first one. He finishes a second, reaches for the third. And I was like, Oh, hell no. Like this is not happening. And so that was the pivot point in our relationship where I was like, This is not about being the cool girlfriend anymore like this. When we get an advertiser it is split evenly. And so from there on out, we like get the nachos like draw a line down the center. I'm like, you have yours. I have mine to be proprietary over food.

I respected me, you know if we were nothing without our ethics. That's awesome. I love it just extra. It has been an absolute treat. Getting to spend time with you. I can't thank you enough for coming into the diner and and sharing a bite with me.

Thanks for having me. It's been so much fun. And I just love this series and can't wait to see what it turns into.