Food Fix's Helena Bottemiller Evich has achieved sustainability. She has a recurring revenue business that exceeds her salary at Politico, with a 10% free-to-paid conversion rate. This gives her the option to continue as is as a solo operation or expand into adjacent verticals. Our conversation ranges across the choices that independent media operators need to make around complicating a simple business model, the guesswork that goes into subscriptions pricing, and how to maintain enthusiasm while on a content treadmill.

This week's episode of the Rebooting Show is

brought to you by Beehiiv.

The platform trusted by enterprise publishers like Newsweek and Time.

Newsweek is in the midst of an exciting transformation with

AI disrupting search traffic.

They're building direct relationships with their audience through newsletters.

Bharat Krish Newsweek's, chief product Officer spoke about why they chose

Beehiiv, and he said that Beehiiv's consumer first tech driven DNA was

exactly what they were looking for.

That B2C background, ended up growing, their tool into being enterprise ready.

Newsweek has aggressive newsletter plans designed around adding new

audiences and launching new products with more industry leaders like.

Newsweek migrating to Beehiiv and 2026 planning in full effect.

Now's the time to see how Beehiiv can take your content to the next level.

If you wanna see what your next stage of growth could look

like, go to Beehiiv.com/trb.

That is spelled B-E-E-H-I-I-V.com/TRB And meet with Beehiiv's team of

growth and newsletter experts today.

Thank you so much to Beehiiv for their support.

welcome to to the Rebooting Show.

I am Brian Morrisey.

I'm joined today by Helena.

Bota Miller eVic.

I hope I got that right.

We talked about me mispronouncing her name, but so let's just,

let's assume that it's very close.

That's very nice.

Helena is the proprietor.

I guess we'll get into what the, what titles we're gonna use of Food Fix,

which is a subscription based food policy intelligence newsletter that delivers

insider reporting and analysis to professionals working at the intersection

of government, industry and public health.

Helena started this, after covering food and ag issues at

Politico for nearly a decade.

She's won awards.

She's even spent some time in the B2B world at Food Safety News.

I like that.

I love B2B publications.

Uh,

B2B and B2C proudly.

Proudly, yes.

'cause at Politico, you were part of Politico Pro.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

And so you left to start Food Fix in 2022.

That's actually when, we first, this is the first time we're, we're talking

live, but we, we, we've exchanged

Mm-hmm.

and I'm gonna quote from one that you sent to me, if you don't

I love it.

Bring the receipts.

Tim Russer, RIP, you said, I really do think there's

something to this creator.

Boom.

Journalists have been much slower to pick up on it because we don't consider

ourselves creators, but it's basically just an editorial first approach.

We're content first approach, even though we hate the term content.

I think you sort of, you sum up the, the distaste that a lot of journalists

have for whatever this is that a lot of them are being attracted to or

being forced into, which is going off on their own and building their own.

Businesses, which is you've been doing for the last three years.

so start off with what, what led you to, to, to leave Politico for, to,

to think there's a lane to do this as a, a solo enterprise, whether it's

creator or we call it something else.

Yeah, I, I'd been at Politico for about a decade and

really got to know the model there.

I helped launch the food nag vertical they had back in 2013.

So I'd been there almost a decade and I was ready to do something else.

I'd been covering food policy the whole time, like I really had owned

and loved covering food policy, was ready to do something else, and I

basically just came to the realization that no other national media outlet

was gonna post the job I wanted.

Like I could go try to convince editors at, you know, New York Times or wherever

to like, create this beat, but they didn't see it as a beat that was worth

covering or that was important to cover.

And it was during a time when I think a lot more media entrepreneurs were being

really open about how they were building.

Like I started listening to All the Morning Brew, you know, every

podcast for every like media operator I started listening to.

And the more I listened as a reporter, like inside the Politico newsroom, I was

like, I actually know more about how this works than, than I maybe had thought.

And I would've never considered myself an entrepreneur.

Like never.

But

Well, that's another term that needs to be retired, I

to dawn on me that I could, that I could maybe do it.

And, I have had readers since be like, are you good at picking

stocks because you like picked the perfect topic at the perfect time?

Because now we're in a Maha world and everyone's talking about food

policy and I find this hysterical.

But no, I just, I love my beat.

I own my beat and I saw the white space because so many media

outlets don't see this as a beat.

So.

There's a clear wide open lane, and I saw it and I decided to launch Food Fix.

I left, Politico right after covering the infant formula crisis.

I was really the top reporter covering that.

loved working at Politico, but just was ready to do something else.

And I took the leap and now I look back and I'm like, wow, that was, was

good timing, but I didn't really see where all this was headed at the time.

But you, you were coming from Politico Pro, right?

And, and that is a B2B arm of Politico that has high price subscription.

So, you know, people, people were already paying for what you were doing.

yep.

But it's, but political, the beauty of it is that pro really is hybrid because a lot

of the top reporters are still writing for politico.com, so you have to be able to.

You know, write for an insider audience, really know your stuff,

do those incremental scoops, and then also be able to zoom out and

write for a mainstream audience.

And I remember being in all hands once where, our then owner, Robert Albritton,

who eventually sold Politico to Axel Springer, and he said something along

the lines of Politico Pro is a way to tax the 1% to pay for a newsroom.

And I will never forget that line because it was really true.

Like, basically they were figuring out how to have a really strong

business model around a B2B, you know, information services, like

really Insidery trade Pub, basically a bunch of trade publications, right?

And then that leveraged them to have the best reporters and these

huge teams of reporters that.

You would never have at other publications.

And then when healthcare blew up or a farm Bill blew up, we had the best

teams in the country covering these.

And so I came to really love that model and I basically, emulate it with Food Fix.

So I'm actually half paid, half free.

I have, so paid subscribers get, food Fix twice a week and free.

I have a free list, gets it once a week.

Anyone can get it.

Food fixx.co.

Anyone interested in food policy?

And you know, there's a lot going on right now,

so.

So just to go back though, what gave you confidence

on like the business side?

Because I think that there can be.

I, I feel like there's Al and you, you flicked at it a little bit, but

there's, there, there can be trepidation wi on with the Capital J journalist.

You're a capital J

Oh yeah.

Oh yeah.

No, I'm a journalist first, second, and third.

yeah.

Okay.

Right.

And then there's the business stuff, right.

Which I think some people get think it's more complicated really than it, I mean,

it's a pain in the ass, but like it's, you

Yeah,

the merchant class is the merchant class.

We journalists,

we try not to sully ourselves

you can become part of the merchant class.

Trust me, it's just a lot of like thankless work.

but I think it's intimidating for

it is.

journalists just 'cause it's unfamiliar

I was intimidated.

I also though, became a little bit less intimidated as I dug in more, so I

did a lot of.

oh, I could do this.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

So I do, I talked to a lot of people like, you know, I talked to Anna

Palmer and John Bresnahan, who launched Punch Bowl out of Politico.

there were a lot of ex-business people from Politico Pro who jumped

on the phone with me and talked me through, like how things worked.

I had a vague idea of how the business worked.

Politico pro's a really high price point.

I think by the time I left, you couldn't get it for less than like, $7,000 and

that would be like a congressional office, like the discounted, you

know, rate for, for government.

you know, so it was really high dollar and I knew that what I was

gonna do was not gonna be every day.

I was not gonna be on a hamster wheel of breaking news.

So I knew my price point was gonna be lower, but I also, I wanted to hit

that sweet spot where it's, premium.

So I'm $500 a year for most people.

I do a lower rate for government, academia, but $500 a year.

You don't necessarily have to have a meeting about that, right?

Like someone can just, sign up, get their business to, expense it for them.

And so I tried, I actually spent a lot of time trying to figure out

pricing and basically I realized everyone was guessing on pricing.

I'd, I'd like talk to all the business people and be like, okay,

like brass tax, how did you do this?

And, you know, they'd be like, look at comps.

And I was like, well, there aren't any comps because I'm the only one doing this.

Like, I have this lane.

And so I actually ended up

And then go higher, look at comps, and then go higher

in B2B, you just go higher.

'cause like the difference between 300 and 500 honestly is not, I don't, I've

never heard anyone give me or present evidence that there's any formula to

these things other than, particularly if you're a journalist, pricing your

information product go higher 'cause you're gonna underprice it usually

as a journalist for whatever reason.

yeah.

And like I. I just, once I realized that everyone else was guessing,

or experimenting, I was like, you know, this isn't, this just

isn't expertise that I don't have.

Like, I can try this too.

And, I went out of the gate and I sold paid subscriptions on

day one and was like, oh, okay.

Like I think, you know, I think this could work.

I had some idea that it was gonna work.

I did think it, it was really helpful that I left Politico before Elon Musk bought

X. And so it was easier to get emails.

I had a pretty, you know, substantial following, really engaged following that

is no longer really the case, although I have also not quit X, but, it was a

lot easier to get emails, so I launched with like something like 1700 people

on my list and that was really helpful

to get going.

Okay.

See, yeah, that, that is always, I mean, that's the kind of like

quote unquote unfair advantage.

I mean, it's

Yes, it's, but all journalists, I've been telling all of my friends

in media have an email list.

I don't care if you think you're gonna be at your publication for the next 20

years, you should have your own list.

You should be building some type of like, direct connection with your audience.

Like you do not own that social anything.

and you don't own the connection you have with within your, your publication.

Like you, you know, I'd love to have the list of everyone who has subscribed

to my stories, you know, in the de in the decade that I was at Politico.

But that's not my list.

Yeah, they weren't gonna give it to you.

Vox gave the list to a couple people, but,

that was, I did, I heard about that and I thought, well,

that was really nice of them.

yeah, that was really nice.

I left Digit.

I don't, I I left behind, the 140,000, like email addresses.

I had to start from zero.

yes.

But at least, I mean, people knew who you were.

They knew your name, and like that is, that counts for a lot.

I'm not ever discounting

yeah, I started with 3000, email subscribers before

I sent, anything just from,

Again, thankfully it was still Twitter then, I guess because, and

it was actually from a Morning Brew.

I think it was Austin, but it, might have been Alex that, that said, anyone

leaving Jeff should always like, get people to sign up to an email newsletter.

'cause it'll go, you'll get the, like, congrats, congrats.

Even if like, it's done.

Like, and and that, that stuck in my mind, even not fully knowing

like what I was gonna be doing.

And it does become, it becomes a, an advantage.

So when you were thinking about you were going to, are, are you doing the same work

now as you were doing at Politico or did you tweak it because, you're on your own

or you wanted to be in a different lane?

So, I. I would say it's similar in some ways.

So I think, you know, the subject matter is similar.

It's basically the same beat.

So I cover like FDA food labeling, anything consumer facing.

So school, meals, the SNAP program, you know, people, which a lot of

people still know as food stamps.

I mean, these are huge programs.

Snap serves more than 40 million Americans.

Like, there's a lot of fights over it.

there's a lot at stake.

So the, the subject matter is very much the same, the tone is different.

I would never use first person.

at Politico and sometimes I do insert a little bit of analysis that's like,

I remember when Michelle Obama was, you know, trying to get everyone to eat

something different in the school meals program and Republicans lost their minds.

You know, I can insert like a little bit of kind of historical analysis

and it feels more personal and I just didn't have that, relationship

with my audience at Politico.

I get more emails now, or even immediately when I launch Food Fix.

I would get more reader emails than I ever got at Politico, even though technically

I was reaching way fewer people.

because it's just different when it, the person is coming into your inbox.

so it's a highly engaged audience.

I very specifically chose to do it twice a week, so that I wouldn't get burned out.

I was not about to.

I talked to Isaac Sa over, you know, I love what he's doing with Tangle, huge

You know how to do it now every

but

like I ask that about to Emily Sunburg all the time.

I'm like, what?

I was like, are you burn out?

And she gets like a little defensive with him and she's like, I work hard.

I'm like, I know.

It's hard work.

We all work hard.

I just

Yeah.

So I say that I do it twice a week, but a couple times a year if I get a

really good scoop, I send a special alert and I call them bonus editions.

I never promised the value prop was never to be like the breaking news

source, but you know, like I knew what was in the dietary guidelines first.

So, and it's kinda like my Olympics and food policy, right?

Yeah.

Every five years, like, the di every five years, the government updates, the

dietary guidelines, they changed it, a bit more this time with, RFK junior stamp

on it, and I knew what was in there.

So my readers got that first, but a few times a year while I do that, it's

really meant to be more analytical.

It's meant to be, always straddling this line.

So.

You know, my paid readers are getting both additions.

The the one that's subscriber only and the free one.

And so both of them have to be valuable and have to be readable.

And one of the great things I learned at Politico is how to write for

both audiences at the same time.

So has to be understandable.

Not a lot of jargon.

If there's an acronym, you explain it.

my mother-in-law will say like, I feel like you're explaining the news to

me, or like, you're kind of holding my hand through the policy news.

And that's kind of the goal is that it's, you know, I have everyone from like CEOs

of food companies to like, you know, people who participate in the SNAP program

and want to follow what's going on.

And so it really is a diverse audience and I love that.

I know it's kind of weird to do B2B and B2C and

Yeah, no, I

would advise against it.

it's, it's, it is kind of dangerous to some, some way because, you know, look,

you're charging $500 a year and if you're explaining what snap is, it would be like

me, like explaining what CPM is, you know,

Well,

time it means cost per thousand, but a thousand is melay

and like all this like, and I'm like,

no, I'm just, I've just

Well, I will

say snap's one, I don't what

And I'm like, people can look up what CPM is if they

yes, yes.

Yeah.

But you know, I, I feel like you do a good job of not, it's never like too

I try

or jargony that, you know.

Yeah.

but,

but I'm, I, I wonder, because you're subscription only,

mm-hmm.

right?

And so

That's the journalist, that's the journalist first approach.

It's

Yeah.

'cause you're not making money off of these other, these freeloaders like I'm,

I'm, I'm fully onto the

I know.

So, here's the deal.

As a reporter, I very much respect having somewhat of a wall between and

like, obviously, when it's just you.

you can't have a wall.

The reason I love subscription only, and it's been, you know, I've had enough

growth and I've had enough success that I can be subscription only for now.

the reason I love it is that your incentives are so tightly aligned, like it

is either worth it to pay for it or not.

Like they either are getting the value or not.

And that is, you're just a, there's no crossed wires there.

And you know, if someone, I actually haven't had this happen, but if

someone hates something and like cancels over or angry or whatever,

that, that's among hundreds.

Like, you know, it's not.

You don't have the appearance of, you know, sponsored by X company

and most of the money to be made where I am is in advocacy dollars,

advocacy ads, and, but these are

Well, it's a lucrative, it's a lucrative

are the issues I'm covering.

So it just looks like there's just no way to separate it.

And so I've stayed away from that.

I'm leaving a ton of money on the table and I know that, and that's

okay with me for now because like, I, I prefer to, keep it simple and to

keep the interests of my audience and the business aligned really nicely.

And for now That's great.

So, but I understand the business people, generally think this is

No, this would not be, this would not be a private equity approved

no, no,

all.

Elena.

Like you got, like, you've got, you've got influential policy makers, you know,

the Washington DC influence circuit,

I'll just put it.

is very, there's a lot of people who feed at that trough.

you know, the view from, you do a view from the top segment with someone who has,

you know, some lobbyist dollars, right?

And then, you know, you're interviewing, I don't know, someone at like a

Maha person and a bunch of lobbyists come and, and that, that works.

That, that, that model works.

I don't think there's anything wrong necessarily.

I, I understand the point of, of keeping it simple though.

'cause I think that is, is really, that's key because you can go in

a lot of different directions.

I know, I feel it

Yeah.

And I, I think I would be feeling differently if I, I've had really

strong year over year growth every year.

that's mostly organic.

Like I'm not spending money on marketing.

and, you know, it's working.

It's working.

So I'm not trying to like.

Make the business model more complex right now, but I am fully

aware of, you know, the different revenue streams I could be creating.

I'm building a platform right now where I can build whatever I want on top of it.

I also have, you know, a toddler and a 6-year-old and like there's beauty in sort

of the simplicity of what I'm running.

I have only part-time, I have only part-time help for food fix

and so, you know, I'm covering the Trump administration.

I got little kids, like I don't, I don't need to be.

literally on your plate.

I got a lot.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So how has the growth been?

What, what kind of numbers would you, would you give us?

I mean at least 10 to 20% every year.

So like, I mean, I am.

Every year growing without, and that's including churn.

Like I have pretty low, low churn, very, very high auto renewal rate.

I think only like 4% of my, subscribers have AUTORENEW turned

off, which is really great.

so it's, it feels strong.

It feels stable.

you know, the biggest

you made of Politico?

Yes.

Oh yeah,

great.

That's the line.

You know,

I think,

I have a, I have a path to hiring people for sure, but it's,

again, it's like this, some, the.

The simplicity of it operationally.

I mean, I say that in like, you know, I have like five part-time folks.

I'm launching a podcast called American Dish, which people can check out.

so it's not, I'm not saying it's like simple to run this, there's

a lot of moving pieces, you know, like, you know how like there's a

lot to coordinate and all of that.

But, I do try to keep it as simple as possible for the stage of life.

And like it used to, you know, people used to always ask me

like, what are you building?

Are you building a lifestyle business?

And I'm gonna be honest, I had to Google like, what is a lifestyle business?

Because I didn't know and

and it's, and it's weird and weirdly, it's 90% of the time 'cause

the type of people who use that term, they use it as a pejorative.

And the, and the, the rest of the rest of us are like, well,

yeah, that sounds amazing.

Like, and they're like, no, no, it's really bad.

I'm

like,

Well, you know what?

I've come to conclude.

Maybe journalism needs a few more lifestyle businesses, because

maybe that's more sustainable.

I a

about to find out.

We're about to find,

You know, I feel this, and is why I wanted to have this conversation

to have more of them is because there's like two worlds in some ways.

There is a world of, of decline that's happening in the mass media

market, particularly general, there's protected categories.

Bloomberg's gonna be fine.

The

Bloomberg will be fine.

Politico, you know, it's going through a little, it's gonna be fine.

Axios is gonna ultimately be fine.

Like the amount of money that's going into the federal government.

I mean, you cover the snaps, a hundred billion plus.

Like, I mean, these programs are massive.

Like, and people looking to influence them, whether you feed at that

trough or not, that trough exists.

There's a reason that p semaphore, et cetera

Mm-hmm.

up at the trough.

and then that's the, that's the biggest problem, not the trough itself.

Consumer media is just totally different.

I mean, they, they, they're looking for a lifeline, and

just, and, and really scrambling.

Whereas this is a really interesting area, and I feel like you are part

of like, I call it like expertise.

And I feel like some

Mm-hmm.

have expertise that as a practitioner, you know, you have

journalistic expertise that you're, you know, so deeply embedded

as like an analyst, really.

I mean, you're, you're more than really I think of like, than as a reporter.

Like you have like real expertise in this area.

I, there's so many success cases in this.

it's not like it's easy.

There's a power law in everything in media, right?

But it's working for a lot of of people, right?

It's not easy, but there are way more journalists that could be doing this.

I mean, just outta Politico, we've had a fair number of entrepreneurial endeavor.

I mean, some of them are scaled, right?

Axios Punchable, well, punchable is still pretty small, but, you know,

they have a, a fairly sizable team.

Now we also had

Rachel Bay, a former playbook,

punchbowl is is not small on in like

not revenue, No, I think, I think

Well, I would rather be big in revenue and small and people, that's my

Yeah, well that's what I mean.

That what, what I mean by not scaled is like they're not

going after, a big high traffic.

That that's not what they're going after.

They are essential for, people in Washington, people

covering the policy, process.

I, I listen to their podcasts almost every day.

Like I love that they're so focused.

I didn't understand when Punchable launched.

How that was gonna work.

I was like, gosh, there's so many people covering the hill.

But they saw the super hyper-focused white space of just like, Congress,

Congress, Congress, hyper-focused.

And it, it works really well.

Like if I wanna know what's going on the day, on that day or that week,

like the, that is the go-to place.

and you know, the Washington Post has given that up, like, I mean

it's probably me of like the like, but I think it's also like, uh,

I'll have to talk with Anna or about it, but like, it, it's also a very savvy,

like business like decision because

also like 90%

it moves, but it also, it moves them from being, I mean from an m and a

perspective because it moves them from trying to compete to be a, a quote unquote

platform business to being additive to someone who already has the platform.

Do you know what I

weren't there rumors for a while that like the Washington

Post would buy punchbowl or

And that, that,

I, I'm not trying to start

rumors.

I think that, was a

that that makes sense because they can be plugged into

someone who already has the platform versus trying to build all the

functions of a Politico or an Axios.

You, you're, first of all, you're, you don't have a a million dollar revenue

per employee number to go around with.

You don't have the margins because you're spending ahead

of, you don't have the scale.

So it may, you have to decide whether or not you're gonna build, you know,

what the banker type people call, like a platform business, which

is like, you're gonna do it all.

You're gonna have a sales engine, you're gonna have everything.

Or if you're gonna like, prove that you have a, a narrow and deep and

a specialist thing that you can, be plugged into like a larger, a

larger entity, if they wanna do that.

If they don't wanna do

Uh, it, it'll be so interesting to see what Punchbowl does.

I think they've done a great job owning their lane.

on that note, I will say like, I mean, because the Washington Post

is trying to get more into the space, I think they've hired some

former Politica Pro folks, you know?

I find it astonishing that the Washington Post Let Politico and Punchbowl and

all of these, entities really own, like covering the federal government, like

generational fumble and there have been a lot of fumbles in, in media.

There have been a lot of fumbles.

I, I can't even tell you how few, like food and ag events, house agriculture

hearings, you know, whatever in the weeds, USDA, how few of them I have seen the

Washington Post at, they do not treat, they, they, at least in my lane, they

have not treated it as this like beat, you know, USDA is one of the largest, parts

of the federal government and it, there's just there, they really were very focused

on being a national paper and kind of.

You know, more like the New York Times model sort of, and I just think, I

mean, again, I'm not a business person.

I just think like watching it sort of happen feels like

a huge strategic mistake.

And now look where we are.

Like we have fewer reporters covering the federal government, which is

just like a bad place to land.

So I'm constantly horrified by like, how few reporters are sometimes

at these like, important events.

Although it's a little bit different under Maha.

'cause now everything's like, everything's, there's

a lot of attention on Maha.

So now there's a lot of reporters at the events that I

go to, which is, which is good.

I, well, I welcome more coverage.

I think it's, I think it's a good thing 'cause

yeah, I mean you, I don't wanna say you got like lucky, but

like it did, it did help that that RFK got, got, got chosen, right?

for sure.

You're one of the few, like who gets a Maha bump

food po for sure.

Food policy has kind of slowly become more mainstream the entire

time I've been covering it.

But there's no question that Maha has taken it to a new level and what

it's really done is taken it out of this like more left coded thing.

Like there was a time when, you know, it was Michelle Obama talking

about food policy and everyone was like, this is the nanny state.

And you know, my mayor Bloomberg in New York was like

literally put in a nanny dress.

Like, I can't remember which publication it was.

Put 'em on the cover.

So, you know, that is

What?

When he tried to ban the soft drinks, I was

He was trying to ban the big gulps.

when you go after like Coke and Pepsi, like they come, they come.

They were like,

But what's interesting is now RFK does not care at all.

He bashes them regularly.

It's a totally different era.

And it's almost like Nixon could, was the one that could open up China.

Like, 'cause you couldn't call him a communist.

It was like the rights now, like.

They're like, screw soda.

We're not doing that in Snap.

I mean, it's wild to watch.

It's a real, there's a super interesting like political realignment that's

happening happened at the same time that it's like become more mainstream.

So it's a really interesting political story for me to cover because

there's a ton of policy implications, but also I'm watching these like

fascinating realignments happen.

and I can see it because I covered the Obama era.

So like I have the luxury of focus in that way.

Like I have all this memory of how all this shit went down, right?

Because I was there.

And so it's been really helpful in that way.

And, and that perspective really helps because I think when

we're in the moment of like great change or realignment, because we're,

we're, it's not only daily, it's like minute by minute like that we

lose sight of how massive the shifts have been in, in all kinds of areas.

In, in politics where when you go back 15 years, we're like, wait a second.

This was a major issue for the other side.

Like, I mean, this is like really shocking, um, changes in a lot of these

areas that sometimes I think because our politics have gotten so tribal

Yeah.

In short term, the cycle, like the memory is short.

So Short term, yeah.

I mean just the, the fact that yeah, there's, there, there's

so many different areas of this.

So what like percentage of your subs, your audience is people

who read food fix for their jobs.

So I have about a 10% conversion rate from the pay or from

the, from the free list to the paid

Really?

That's great.

Yeah.

I am very proud of that.

but I think part of it is that if you're signing up for food policy newsletter,

you're already a little bit more.

Prone to like working in the space or, like a good example would be like, you

know, someone who's a food lawyer or someone who works at a regional food bank.

Like they might have a budget for media and so they, they might get it.

And then it's also like, you know, people who work on Capitol Hill and who,

people who work for the government and people who work at trade associations.

So those, that paid list is mostly people who work in it.

There's some random people who are just, you know, have money

to burn and are really interested and wanna, wanna read it.

But it is mostly people who work in it.

The vast majority of paid food, fixed readers are getting it expensed.

and they're renewing year over year because it's just like a

part of their, part of their jobs.

And the most churn I have is people switching jobs.

That's the biggest thing.

And they'll, they'll send an email being like, I'm gonna resubscribe off my, you

know, as soon as I get on my new email.

So I, it's sticky.

It's a, it's a habit, you know, I hear from people all the time.

They're like, I like wait for it to come.

Like, I, you know.

I open it when it comes in.

Right?

It's like a, almost like an event.

that's not everyone, but there's definitely some, some loyal

readers, who, who read it right when it comes to their inbox.

And, it's been great.

I mean, I knew there was white space, because I, you know, saw

that the other media outlets weren't seeing this as a beat.

So, and even trade publications, there actually isn't a trade publication

that just covers food policy.

There's a lot of really great, agriculture, like production

side trade publications.

so they're much more focused on like farm subsidies and conservation programs

and sort of like the other side of USDA, like the more the production side.

So I don't really touch that stuff at all unless there's a big Maha fight over it.

Like today I was writing about pesticides, but that's because

there's a big Maha fight and there's other implications to that.

So.

You know, the food policy side, there just isn't like sometimes food dive

or these other verticals will touch on it, but it's not, it's not their focus.

So

Do you

I kind of have the lane to

Well, do you think of, because I always think, you know, it seems

like you're very disciplined about this, like, you know, but you know,

when you, when you reach, I don't know, it's like content market fit, right?

You think about, okay, well how do I expand the aperture?

You know, you add in and there's a lot of different, you know, ways to

Adjacent.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

how do you, how do you think about that?

Or is that just something you, you wanna stick to?

Like food policy?

You, you don't wanna build the, like, you know, the food industry publication.

I am still kind of deciding.

I mean, I get this question a lot, like, what are you building?

Right?

And this used to really stress me out because I didn't really

Because you thought you should have an answer.

I always thought, I was like, I should have an answer.

I

let me make something up on the spot.

I feel like, well I'm really, you know, it's working,

I'm considering what, what to do.

And I've started to be less stressed out about this because like, I

am building this very sustainable platform, this upon which I can either

stay the course and build a really strong, loyal, food fix audience

and keep building it brick by brick.

And that's great.

And that's a success.

Or like, there definitely is space for food fix to be broader, to like, have,

you know, I see other niche lanes that are kind of adjacent that that would work.

And that's just a different, that's just a different path.

Right.

And

I can

do either

and I feel like a lot of outside people who haven't been down

this path don't quite understand that like, optionality is really important

to people like you, people like me.

Like, I mean, having that, having those options I is, is really

valuable because going out and going down, you're, you know, you're

a small business owner, right?

And like, I don't, I don't wanna speak for you, but you probably didn't think

that you would be like a running your own business when you went into journalism.

no.

I'm also an accidental journalist, so like

Yeah, so like, there's lots of stuff

Yeah.

Yeah.

but like, you know, the having optionality I

feel like is doubly valuable.

And, and, and I think it's underrated, I feel like, to a lot of, I don't wanna

say like business people, but like the, the people, you know what I mean?

Like, they are the, like the business minded

people, because usually they're playing with other, they're usually,

they're using other people's money.

They're gonna make a ton of money one way or the other.

And like, you left Politico and you're like, I mean, I don't know,

maybe, maybe, you didn't have to get the health insurance, but

like, you know, you've got all

health insurance is a nightmare.

you know, you've got two kids and you got like Bill, and like, you know,

you don't, you're not guaranteed anything.

when you, when you start your own business, like

You're, you're not, you're not guaranteed anything.

And that was scary.

But, you know, it's interesting.

I always felt like I had a lot of job security at Politico.

I was really good at what I did.

I won them a bunch of awards.

I know I made them a lot of money because our team was excellent and they were

selling really expensive, subscriptions.

So like I, I could have stayed there.

I had a great job.

I, I felt like I had job security.

That wasn't why I left.

But what's weird now looking back, is I realize I actually

have more job security now.

I have control over my destiny as a reporter.

I get to still practice journalism, hold, agencies to account and

do a lot of the same things.

there are, I certainly miss, you know, having great colleagues and

there's a lot of, you know, bells and whistles and tools and stuff that

a newsroom has that I do not have.

but it's, it's honestly been great and I wish I had done it sooner, honestly.

the control, the having the option of like going in different directions,

choosing who I work with, like picking editors who, make me smarter

and are a pleasure to work with.

Like these small things that I didn't really think about.

Have been great.

Like, and I think there are some upsides that I, you know, I wasn't

doing it to have more job security.

I didn't think about it that way.

But I think in the end I ended up, realizing that it made a lot more

sense to do this in a lot of ways.

which is just so crazy for me to, it's even crazy for me to hear myself say that

because I would've never thought that I'd be someone who would launch a company.

Like I just wouldn't, wouldn't have thought that.

So it's been a great journey, and I'm really actually glad to see a lot

more reporters going down this road.

I understand many of them will.

Be going down this road against their will.

Right.

They're not necessarily, I think because of all the uncertainty, it's

gonna force more people to do this, but, but many of them will succeed.

Not all of them, not all of them, but many of them will.

And I think there is a future where there are more small, you

know, you're either gonna do it on expertise or maybe your big scale.

Obviously like the Don Lemon models is different.

but people are making it work and you hopefully will have a whole

stable of journalists who are still, you know, holding power to account,

fact checking and like running solid stories, uh, using that model.

So I think it's gonna be part of the equation

Yeah.

So the, the, the email i, I had referenced, you talked about you would,

you didn't consider yourself a creator, you know, and I don't, it probably doesn't

line up with, with the work you do.

Right.

but we don't have, I guess you're just like an independent journalist.

I'm not like, too hung

up on, on, on labels.

do you feel like you can be as ambitious journalistically

as you were within Politico?

that's a good question.

So I am not doing 5,000 word magazine pieces with like amazing

graphics that took a team to create.

I'm not doing those anymore.

I could be, partnering with other, you know, media outlets Right now.

It's more of a bandwidth thing.

I am still though holding agencies accountable when they, you know, when

their actions don't match their words.

Like, I mean, I do that often.

So I think it just takes a different format.

Right?

It's much less, The typical article format, and it is like a very

traditional newsletter format, which is a little more voicey, a little

bit more informal, but I still view the function of it to be similar.

Like it has to be, informative, it has to have original reporting.

and, you know, I've been in this space long enough that like most people will

pick up the phone when I call now, you know, like, maybe they won't be

on the record, but like, I've really been owning this beat long enough that

I'm able to write from like a place of authority that is, is not only helpful

for me to run a business that way, but it's helpful for the audience.

Like, I get a lot of feedback.

People say it makes them smarter in their meetings, which you always like to hear.

It makes them understand what's going on, better.

And that's sort of the goal is that you're informing people and trying to, you know.

I guess shine some lights where, where you can, but, certainly it's different.

I'm not writing, you know, these big takeout pieces.

And I think places like Politico are struggling with whether or not to do those

stories anymore, like at all, because it takes a lot of resources and you're not

getting the same ROI that you once did,

Yeah.

It doesn't make sense on a spreadsheet for a lot.

I mean, this is just the reality of the business, and I think one of

the knocks of this decentralization, particularly when it comes to

journalism, is inevitably, I mean, I'm part of it, like, you

know, the, the economic incentives are to do less reporting.

They, they are because you're, you're so stretched thin.

Okay.

That.

Look, we've, we've all been through this with the aggregators and whatnot.

Like when whatnot, you know, it is like, oh, you, like, I would hate

like a, we would like work really hard on like a story under uncovering

something at like, Digiday and then like Business Insider would

I would

like, put into a slideshow.

And I'm like, that's a ripoff.

and I, I get that like, you know, there's people who do podcasts, you know, like

me, like, and, and I'm not doing a lot of the original reporting and a lot

of the incentives in the, what I call the information space are to, to, to

stay on the analytical or if you're in politics on the, the, the opinion

and, and the shouting and the, level.

I mean, I think that, that connecting the dots when done well is, is a,

a is, I guess it's broadly like journalism, but I think on the

Oh, it's helpful.

reporting it's.

That is the knock, like whether or not this decentralization will, one of the

trade-offs will be far less reporting.

Like for instance, there was this controversy, I don't know if you saw

with the, the, the Cleveland, like is a plain dealer like editor, who they were

saying to, reporter, interns that you're just gonna be reporting gathering thing

and then you're not gonna be doing the writing, like the writing's gonna be

done through this AI process and whatnot.

And a lot of people were outraged.

And I kind of got that, you know, I'm a writer, I guess spiritually.

but at the same time I was like, realistically, I, it's

better for a reporter to be reporting than, than writing.

yeah.

I mean, I, I agree with you.

I, I, I do think that I've been somewhat helped.

I mentioned I was a accidental reporter.

I didn't go to journalism school.

I, I wrote my thesis on food policy, and that's how I fell

into reporting kind of random.

you know, I was interested in the subject area, subject matter first, so I did

not grow up wanting to be a reporter.

I don't have the same romantic attachment or like nostalgia for like, the old

way of doing things like the newspaper.

Like, you know, a lot of, a lot of people grew up, who wanted to be

reporter since they were like five, and they have this very specific

idea about how things should work.

I am thankful I don't have that, like I view reporting as super essential

to like a functioning democracy.

So important.

Journalism is very, very important, but I don't have that like romantic sort of,

this needs to be done this certain way.

We have to have print, whatever.

I had a mixed reaction to that as well, because I think that.

Journalists need to be focused on what humans can like very

uniquely do that AI cannot.

And that is to call people other people and talk to them, figure out what is

actually going on, talk to them off the record, talk to them on background, like

figure out what is actually going on.

Go interview people on the street.

These are things that, you know, the robots can't do.

So we should be focusing on like, what can we do?

No one should be spending their time rewriting stories,

rewriting press releases.

Like I think that that era is gone.

so we do, we have to adapt, we have to change.

I get the knee jerk sort of like, yikes.

that is scary idea that the machines are like deciding which quotes are in or not.

But like that probably is the way the world's going.

And like we need to figure out, how to do it responsibly.

How to have the right editors.

I mean, even A A RP is using AI to edit, like recall notices.

Like I, like you go to their website.

A A RP is like, you know, has some of the biggest scale in media.

People don't realize this 'cause there's so many people that belong to a RP.

and you know, A A RP is using AI to edit, like recall notices because you know

everyone but especially the elderly who their immune systems are not as strong.

Like they need to know about recalls.

So they're using AI to rewrite those.

Well, when I started my career, at Food Safety News 15 years ago, I was rewriting.

Call notices.

There's no, that's not something reporters probably should be doing anymore, unless

you're adding some original reporting.

And so we are gonna have to adapt.

We're gonna have to change.

We need to lean into what, humans can uniquely do.

I will say though, I have learned that people love the curation

and aggregation, and it's weird.

I've, I've actually expanded the, like what I'm reading section in

the newsletter because I got so much feedback that it was so helpful.

And I do think probably eventually that will just all be done by ai.

Like, but people freaking love it.

They, they're overwhelmed with information.

And as the reporter, I'm like, this isn't original.

I'm not writing this.

Why do you, people want, you know, why do you want this?

And, but

they, they want the

I was like, I was like, oh, this, like, what shouldn't

machines be doing this?

but maybe, I don't know, like,

have, I have a human help me do it because it, you know, and we really

take time to think about like what should be in and what should be out.

So

maybe that is a uniquely human thing.

Yeah.

That's

five people like working like part, like, so what, what

do you, like, who do you have?

Like, like which functions?

I have two editors.

I have a podcast manager.

I have a VA and an editorial assistant, and then I have really part-time tech

help, like, basically like a on call, like if something, but I will say

I use member full to, this is not a plug for, no, this is not Paid Plug

for Member Full, but I use member Full to, to monetize the, the site.

And they, have a really great, really great team and they're super

responsive and like, so I also have a lot of, if anything ever gets weird,

I have a lot of help from them too.

So, you know, it's a pretty lean operation.

But you know, it takes, you know, this, I'm not gonna learn how to code anything.

I'm just not gonna do

you don't need to do that anymore.

well, but I don't even know how to not code and make stuff.

You know what I mean?

Like that you have to learn how to do that.

I think the bigger, I think the bigger decision is on

the business model side, right?

Is like you, you don't, you're, you don't have ads, you don't do events.

Right?

And like

Not yet.

I probably will eventually do

okay.

'cause that's the, I think those are like the questions because

that is where the complexity,

Yes.

is because when you have, when you have clients, you've got

an entirely different business.

I

Entirely.

I'm aware.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I, I spend.

80% of my time on things that have nothing to do with the content,

um,

that, yeah, you've got a lot of events and webinars and you got a lot

going on.

I think about that.

I'm like, gosh, his calendar.

it's stressful.

one thing I, we do

That's why I'm, I'm very jealous of your model.

well, we, I wanna get into institutional subscriptions,

which is more complex to set up.

I actually have the tech, I had the tech built to do this, but

running the process of institutional subs is a different thing.

Right.

You're talking more high dollar.

You, you got contracts involved, you have some tech, like, there's, ip,

it's just, it's

more

right?

Because like you, everyone wants things bought and just

very few things are bought.

Like most things are sold, like subscriptions are bought.

And the reason I think that journalists, were very attracted

to models like Substack is because.

They didn't wanna sell to

anyone.

And I

there like, there's, there's the church and state thing, but

really they didn't wanna sell.

Like there's type of people.

And when I tell this to like, people who are like salespeople by nature, like,

I'm like there, you know, there's a lot of people out there who don't like

to ask other people for money, right?

And they're like, what are you talking about?

I'm like, no, seriously.

I'm one of them.

Like, there, there's a lot of us out there and I think a

lot of journalists don't like,

yeah.

I don't really send marketing emails.

I do.

I know people are like, what is wrong with you?

but I

do, you know, in every free

think it's a personality type.

the, free, the free newsletter is like top of funnel in a way.

Like, so it's, I always have at least two blurbs in there that are

like, you know, you're missing out if you're not getting the paid addition.

And,

You're good with the consistency.

it's, yeah, we, it's, but it's not where I'm not hitting

people over the head with it.

And also I have, like, if someone is on SNAP or WIC or one of

these federal nutrition programs, they can get it for free.

They just email and, Yeah, it's working.

So for right now, we're

Okay, so you're you're adding a, a podcast and what

It's called American Dish.

Everyone should

American Dish.

It's a little bit more consumery I felt like than, than I was expecting.

So, so talk,

So, American Dish, launches March 4th.

the idea for the podcast is a little bit, is a little bit

responding to the moment we're in.

So I've been doing this for a really long time.

I've been covering food policy for, you know, more than 15 years, and now all

of a sudden everyone is at my party.

Like everyone's talking about food policy.

We've got all the, you know, there's all the wellness podcast people, there's

the manosphere, there's the Silicon Valley biohackers, like everyone is now.

Coming to this in different ways.

And so I am trying to take a step back and have it be a little bit more consumer

facing, like ta I'm sitting down and talking to some of the smartest people

in the space to zoom out because so many people are getting their information

now from these like super short clips that are super alarmist or black and

white or really like oversimplified.

And so, you know, being the policy reporter, I am, I'm like,

let's, let's go into the nuance.

Let's like dive into it more.

And also we're gonna pull short clips out of it.

And I refuse to make real, we don't really do social media as like a focus

other than LinkedIn because again, the whole point is to get someone

on the free list and then hopefully, eventually convert them to paid.

I am not randomly finding those people on TikTok.

Like that's not.

You know, and you don't own that channel.

So, it is a little bit of a play into experimenting more with social, but

I have found that podcasts appearing on them, in any way, like it's a

much more evergreen marketing thing.

Like people will find the podcasts from like interviews I

did years ago, 'cause they might be searching a particular topic.

And so part of it's just an experimentation of like another

way to market without marketing.

and also I find podcasting very easy compared to writing the newsletter.

it's just, you know, I know the people.

Yeah.

I listen to

I feel guilty as I, I do more podcasting.

'cause I've always, I always thought about

it as like soft, soft retirement for writers.

Once they got too tired.

That's why, that's why there's so many

It's hard to set up.

I will say I've spent like a lot of time on the, like pre-launch, like

setting it up is a lot of work, like way more work than I think I understood.

But the actual act of doing it is, and it's very natural for journalists too.

'cause like, we're curious, we have a lot of questions.

I know a lot of these people, so like, you know, it's easier for me to get

bigger names to come on just because I know I've been in this space for a

while and so, but it is a little more B2C I, I'm not initially monetizing it.

I probably will eventually.

but we'll see.

Like, I don't want anything, anything that is monetized on the podcast will

not have a like, direct conflict.

So if anyone wants to like, sell knives or like, you know, something

that's not, anti like farm Bill or whatever their thing is, right?

Like,

Don't take

to me,

way, but you're s even though you're an accidental journalist,

this is such a journalist approach.

I know.

Oh, I

know.

I make

no

selling, selling ads is a, is, is horrible.

And it's so hard.

And then like a journalist is like, not only am I gonna sell, sell ads,

but I'm gonna, I'm gonna type both of my arms behind my back and be like,

I have this super valuable niche, and instead I'm gonna sell it to

the Ginsu knives people instead of,

if you're listening, I am open for, I'm like, I will not be

covering anything related to, I don't know what their issues are, tariffs

related to materials, whatever.

Like I'm all for it, so

talk to me about that.

So you're just like totally anti ads then.

I'm not anti adss.

I'm anti ads that present a conflict or that appear to present a conflict

Is it because you sell them?

Why don't you just have someone else sell 'em?

yeah, I could have someone else, but it's just, it's, there's just not.

A lot of distance, and it's still my name that goes in your

Ah, interesting.

one day when it maybe isn't my name.

Just going when it's not as much of an individual.

If I go that direction, then that's different.

Have you decided if you want to go that direction or you, you

haven't decided, it sounds like,

I think I probably eventually will expand with more people.

but I do not have like an immediate plan to do that.

you know, we'll see how it goes.

But again, it's the chasing the toddlers, covering the Trump administration,

yeah, and so that's a complexity thing.

And also I think one of the things

I think having full-time employees is a different, is just a different

did you manage people at Politico?

Mm-hmm.

I mean, I mentored a lot of people.

Yeah.

but that's different.

Yeah.

No, it's different.

it's different.

It's different.

I think a lot of people in this area, struggle with the first hire.

Yeah.

Oh, I think it's

mean fractional, I don't mean like, you know, part-time

people getting a podcast producer.

I

mean,

no.

Yeah.

Yep.

a full-time person?

no, I only have fractional.

I, I tried, I, I went down the path of like a full-time hire and I

didn't, it didn't, I didn't love it.

Like be, and not, not against the, person, but

Well, it's hard because what you need is so many different things.

It's hard to think about what that role is.

Weirdly in media, media needs more business.

Not, it's weird because like generalists really bad, tough area when you're a

journalist, generalists on the business side of media really valuable, at

least to me and to, to you and to

other people because like you, you have real needs.

That are not full-time jobs.

And a lot of people have narrowed and become specialists in such an too

much, in some ways because you need them to do three different roles.

And at least what I have found is not a lot of people can, can do that.

I, I guess that's like natural and so you end up going to a fractional approach

because otherwise the reality of this, these models is a lot falls on you.

Like you just can't outsource, you know, stuff like, you

know, like I'm sure like if,

this is part of why I don't do ads is that I am

aware of like the operational, like set up needed to do that.

I mean, vaguely.

Right.

And it is more, It's more work to show the, the, you know, the impact of those.

It's just a whole other workflow that I don't have, and it's

really nice to not have it.

What I am seeing happen, which I think is great, is there's more, businesses,

consultancies, whatever, kind of springing up to serve kind of like you and me.

Like, whether it's like, PR targeted to more like solopreneurs or,

or even just journalists, really specifically like looking at event

planning, like live podcast setups.

I, I'm seeing more of that start to happen, and I think that

there's a real space for that.

Like, you know, maybe you don't have a full-time events person, but you

have like a go-to agency or small consultant group where you're like, oh,

th these are my folks who I bring on.

And maybe there's like an arrangement every time that's different about how you

make that work, but I, I really think that's missing.

To me, that's the infrastructure, like infrastructure is not just technology

and the tech people will, will pretend it's, it's just technology platforms.

But the reality is, no media business is primarily journalists.

Journalists are a minority of those businesses.

Now why is

Yeah.

And they're viewed as cost centers instead of

like

there, there are some things that like, you know, but like the,

the, the reality is there's a, the publishing function is far beyond.

There's a lot of people there doing a lot of different things.

And when you go to a very lean, independent model, you have to

decide which of those things you're gonna do because you're

going to need infrastructure.

And, you know, I think that, and I, there's a lot of people who are

trying to build these kind of things that are basically a shared services,

Mm-hmm.

model where.

You can tap into a shared services for growth, for, for sales, for

events, and for, for other things, because it is, it is a lot like when

you start to add clients, like you add clients, like, I mean, that,

that, that comes with obligation.

It just doesn't come with like, money.

Like you gotta, like, you gotta serve the clients.

You gotta, do the reports and you've got to, and the reality is

a lot of the monetization outside of subscription is not turnkey.

It starts to look like an agency.

It starts to look like a

yeah.

yeah.

And that's a lot of work on your plate.

Yeah.

yeah.

So, I admire your,

you.

Well, it, I think the fact that I'm still growing gives me, some more

runway to like push those decisions off.

Right.

but we'll see, we'll see when, when the business hits a wall, if

well, it's impressive that you haven't hit a subscriptions wall because

usually people who go down your path hit that wall after a couple years.

It's like the first year it's like amazing.

It's growing, it's great and everything.

And the reality of any subscription business that I've seen up

close is you hit a wall and then it becomes incremental.

It becomes optimization tactics.

And guess what?

That's a lot more like specialized work that a lot of

like journalists don't, haven't done before.

Oh, I'll, I'm gonna be consulting people when we hit that because I, yeah.

I don't have an interest in spending time on that either.

And I think knowing that is part of.

Is good, right?

Be like, I'm not gonna learn how to do that.

I'm gonna find someone to do that.

you know, do you know what your total addressable market is?

Your tam I had to like Google all these things, right?

'cause I was not an entrepreneur.

I realize that's also a made up number.

I mean, I, to me, to me, the, the, the, the tam stuff

is, is it's done for investors.

It's made up and it's, it's always far bigger than it really

Yeah.

All the media biz people were trying to tell me how to calculate this, and

I was like, this is not something I can

uh, yeah, and you're pro your, your time is probably better spent, like

yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And, but I, I don't think I've hit, like there's still room to

grow, so we'll keep trekking along.

yeah, it's, and then, you know, we'll see where this goes.

I think, Maha has like ripped open a new kind of.

Dimension of food policy and like, it'll be interesting to

see where that goes next, so

for sure.

I think the, just one, one final question on, on the Maha stuff and,

and your, 'cause we, we've talked all about the business stuff, but,

I eat and so I'm interested in this.

can you tell me why those of us who like go, take trips to Europe and whatnot,

why, and I'm sure you've gotten this question, I mean, it's kind of like for

me, like, you know, being close to the ad tech world, getting asked like, what are,

are they listening to us on our phones?

'cause I swear to God, I got an ad right after we talked about this

or that.

Why do, why do we feel better?

feel fine.

We'll eat pasta all, all week in, in Italy and stuff, and we'll feel like

light is a feather and we'll come back here And, we feel bloated and I feel

like they're Maha has taken off because we keep being told that it's not.

No, no, no.

It's because you walk more and like, everyone's like, you're just lying to us.

You've gotta be kidding me.

So, I mean, the truth is we don't know, like no one is

incentivized to answer that question.

Like who, who has the financial incentive to answer that question?

Right.

it is so common though, to hear that discussed.

It is so common now that Republicans are praising Europe, right.

Because of how much better they feel when they travel there.

And that honestly is something you, that is one of the driving

narratives of Baja, is that Europe's food is better than the us.

I mean, they, they don have a more precautionary regulatory system.

So there's just a lot of things that they just don't allow, like additives.

And they're, they, they're, they're more cautious, that's for sure.

But

Fanta tastes different in

well, it

has different ingredients.

It

and has different ingredients, and I constantly feel like United

States corporations are serving us.

I'm gonna get all conspiratorial here.

They're serving us crappy crappier food and crappier

products than they are in Europe.

You go to a Starbucks in Europe, it looks totally different

than the ones here you go.

I'm like, why are we getting the crappy stuff?

crappy food.

Like, we can't even make butter that tastes right.

Like, and, I don't understand.

We have a lot of cows.

why does Europe, why does, why does butter taste completely different in

It, the regulatory system is totally different.

And also it's cultural, right?

Like in Europe, they have a much, generally they have a

much stronger attachment to like, local and regional food.

And like, I mean, God forbid you call sparkling wine from

California champagne, right?

Like the, this, there's a lot more,

Like towns

in Italy have, have their own pasta,

uhhuh.

So part of it's culture, but we actually don't know.

And like, this is one of my soapbox, the soapbox that I always get on.

We, there are so many questions about nutrition and, health that we have

never studied because there isn't a lot of federal investment in it.

So like.

We don't actually know why people eat more calories when they eat processed food.

Like we don't know the answer to that.

Even though most of the American diet is now ultra processed and

now everyone's talking about ultra processed food, we like lack basic

science around some of these questions.

And everyone always asks the Europe thing like, because you hear like,

oh, is it just 'cause I was walking?

Am I less stressed?

Are people around me less stressed?

'cause they are, they seem like they're enjoying themselves, right?

So what is the food?

What is it stress?

Maybe it's all the above.

Maybe all those things are working together that you're on vacation,

you're walking more, you're less stressed and the food is different.

I mean, this is a study that could be done, done.

There is actually, Todd Wagner, who I think was business partners with

Mark Cuban does a lot of work in this space, like food additives.

And he was.

Actually, the reason he got into this is because he would have

migraines in the US and they would go away when he went to Europe.

And he was just like, are you kidding me?

Like, something is not right.

And he's actually like, helped them pass like additive bands in

California and like is working on this.

And it is a precisely because of that personal experience and like,

we don't have the science to back it up, but like anecdotally, people get

really fired up about this and like, you know, I, I, I don't, I never like

dismiss someone's personal anecdote.

Well enough people have them.

And if you have enough experience with it, you're like, this is, this is real.

This is true.

Um,

so

part of MAHA now.

Brian,

no, forget about the Mexican Coke.

Like I want the European Fanta to be here because it tastes like fruit juice.

more than just like, whatever it is, like here, I don't get, so

Well, I will say for people who are not in the weeds of Maha mostly

right now, we're doing a vibe shift.

They're extremely anti-process foods in their rhetoric, and they're, they are,

some states are banning soda from snap, but we have not had regulatory change yet.

So like that's very, TBD like Maha really does not like ultra processed foods.

But if anyone out there is wondering like, have we banned

anything or what we have not.

So we'll see.

Brian, you

gotta tune in to Food Fix if you wanna

Okay.

figure out what's, uh,

the European Fanta episode, have me on as

like a

little cameo.

I'm putting it on the list.

That's a great, that's a great podcast

All right.

Thank you, heli.

Thank you

for saying that.

Appreciate it.

Thank you so much.