This is my motherhood story

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Episode 11 • 30th June 2026 • you've had a baby...not a lobotomy • Samantha Murrell

Welcome to you've had a baby, not a lobotomy with me, Samantha Murrell. This is a podcast where we disrupt the narratives around what it means to be a good mother. No experts, no tips and tricks, no textbooks, and no judgement.

We're all navigating motherhood alongside everything else happening in our own lives. So consider this your invitation to question everything that you've been told about motherhood and then do it your own damn way.

Hello and welcome to this episode of you've had a baby, not a lobotomy podcast. And I have my very special, well, I'm actually the guest today, um, Laura Greenwood from Laura Greenwood Therapy is going to be interviewing me in this special episode, the first I've had of its kind. And I will be telling my story about becoming a mother and also the undiagnosed ADHD, um, that contributed to my really challenging postpartum experience.

d coaching together back in: 2020

So Laura, thank you so much for being here. I'm super excited. Oh my God. Honestly, I feel when you asked me to do this for you, I just feel so honoured that you are trusting me to be able to help you to share this story. I think it's such an important story that so many mothers need to hear. Um. And I just feel really, really blessed actually to be part of that. So thank you for asking me to do that, Sam.Oh, you're perfect person to do this. Um, I'm gonna share some more details of Lauren, how you can find her. But Laura, just before we get into my story, can you tell us a little bit about you and the work that you do? And and, and why you do the work you do? Yeah, sure, I love it.Once a podcast host, always a podcast host, right, Sam? Um yeah, so as you mentioned, I'm Laura Greenwood, so psychotherapies by background, and I've been working now in the mental health industry for around 18 years.Every year that goes up, I'm just like, oh my God, every year on the planet, time just seems to fly by as an adult, um, in front of our eyes. Um, I feel incredibly blessed and privileged to be able to do the work that I do.I love it. I adore it. It is totally my calling. And, and a big part of what I do really is supporting people now specifically mothers, fathers, parents, to really discover who they are underneath all of the stories and the noise and the expectations and the pressures of what they've been taught to be by society.Because the truth of the matter is most of us are walking around playing all of the roles and engaging in behaviours and patterns that just do not serve us, but that we learn to engage in in order to survive the lives that we're living, the systems that we're living in.And actually this is why this discussion today is just so very important because navigating a world made for neurotypicals when you have an incredible neurodiverse brain is so very challenging. And we're having more conversations about that now, which is so, so very important.And so my work stepped more into supporting mothers more specifically, understandably, when I became a mother myself seven years ago.And I just found it so very challenging. And yet nobody seem to be talking about the real realities of what it meant to be a mother in today's society. And even though I knew all of the theories, all of the symptoms of mental health struggles, anxiety, depression, traumas, this does not describe my experience at all.And it was only when I started to find people where I felt that I am could could, could trust them to tell my true story of how I was truly finding motherhood that I recognised I wasn't alone.And how freeing that fell made me feel, oh my gosh, there's so many of us walking around feeling lost in an experience and feeling like they are on their own when the opposite is true.So I suppose I made it my mission within my business, Laura Greenwood Therapy, to help mothers tell the untold stories of motherhood so they could feel less alone, so that they could find their true self underneath all of those stories about what they think they needed to be, should be in order to fit in, belong, be good enough, feel loved, be accepted by other people to their model that to their children so that they could grow up not feeling like they needed to fit a certain, certain mold to be good enough to fit in.And therefore, how could we not make and break these generational patterns that are so important for society? You know, the mental health statistics are huge. The child mental health statistics are huge.The male suicide statistics are huge, and this is all because people feel too afraid to say, I am struggling, and I need support, and that needs to change, and I will make it my life mission to be part of that change, because everything starts with parenthood.And when we support parents differently, literally we change the game of life for everybody. So in a nutshell, that's what I'm here to do. Okay, so I'm crying already with Hardy in 5 minutes in. Um, so I, I'm sure you can see why Laura is a perfect person to do this. Her mission is, is so aligned with mine. We are so aligned as people, and, um yeah, think she explained exactly why I, I wanted her to do this with me.So right, Laura, over to you. Let's do this. And some, obviously, of course, the people listening here, right know who you are is your podcast, but as you are normally the person like you just so beautifully did ask me to introduce myself.I really wanna give that privilege to you, Sam. So I want you to tell me a little bit about who you are, your world, and actually why the, why it was really important for you to ask me, your fellow deep thinking, deep thinking Ravian friend to help you to tell this particular story today. Laura, I think this is your calling in life podcast is next for you. [...2.6s]Um yeah, well, I, I just, just so, you know, we haven't rehearsed any of these questions and I didn't want to rehearse any of these because I, I flow better when I can just kind of answer on the spot.So, yeah, I haven't prepared for this. Um, so my, yeah, my story, this part of my story, my, why really, I suppose it, it did start in motherhood, but actually when I look back further than that, I actually look back at that, that little girl, um, and I'm kind of doing this for her as well, me, the little girl that was.Um, so I became a mother in 2018 to my beautiful magnificent Luna and I thought I was so prepared in now I know that it was ADHD, but in true ADHD style, I had hyperfocus on getting ready for the baby.I did everything, hypno birthing, I did NCT, did the nursery, we got the pram, the car seat, the clothes, all of it, and did the, you know, and all of that. And I thought, yeah, I'm ready, here we go.And I sort of did what I thought I should do and looked around me and saw what everybody else was doing. And, and then the birth didn't go to plan, as of course, I would say the majority don't. And that really catapulted me into motherhood in a way that absolutely blindsided me. And I, it was so challenging from the, from the beginning.And looking at parts of of, of the birth, and I'm, I'm not going, going to go to my best story now particularly.But, but part of the birth, um, meant sorry, the way that my birth went, um, with Luna, it meant that my adrenaline was already really high. Um, and then my anxiety spiked really, really quickly and very pretty much, yes, straight away.I think as soon as we came home from the hospital, boom, the anxiety was there and it really just snowballed into a really, really challenging time. And we can come into some more of the detail of that because I'm just gonna go into my why. And I have an amazing, incredibly supportive husband.He is always opposite to me in that he is this calm, steady presence, um, that really, I hope, you know, Yin to my Yang or whatever you wanna call it. And he and, and I have an incredibly supportive family. And I still really, really struggled.And I, when I came through that really intense time again, we'll come back to that.I remember thinking, wow, and, and don't get it wrong. It's not like I've never had struggle since, but that particular intense time, I remember thinking, okay, wow, um, that was so freaking hard. And I had support and I had people around me that were willing to listen if I was ready to open up and it was still hard.So what about the women that don't have that support, that don't have that understanding support network around them? What about them and why are we not talking about this more? And when I don't, this was really probably my journey of finding out about my trescence.And then when we started studying with Amy Taylor Kabaz, I wanted to shout it from the rooftops. I wanted to, to tell if I wanted to say, like, why aren't we telling women about matrescence?The the the, the whole body and psychological and identity transformation of a woman as she becomes a mother? Why are we just talking like, why are we just experiencing this? As if it's just like, just something really small. It's so monumental and we just expect women to get on with it. And I just had to shout this from the rooftops. And that was the mission really with my business initially.And then in the last six months, actually I probably it, it has been in my consciousness for longer than that, but I then started more recently to to, to believe that I had ADHD and actually recently have been diagnosed with ADHD.And now I know how much the undiagnosed neurodiversity contributed to my struggles. You know, many, many women experience struggles even without neurodiversity. And I'm not saying you have to have neurodiversity for it to be, to be difficult, but that was a real massive contributor.And it's, and you were talking briefly, you said briefly about the, um, mental health, um, the crisis that we're in. And we know that in the UK, uh, maternal suicide is the biggest killer of women in the first six weeks to a year of after birth.And undiagnosed ADHD is so dangerous. The anxiety that I felt was terrifying. And sometimes I generally look back and I think I don't know how I got through that time because it was so scary.So now I want to raise awareness and I want to show women and women to know that they're not alone because when we hear other people talking about these experiences, and whilst they're not always exactly the same, we can pull out threads, we can resonate when we start talking about it, raise awareness.It it, it enables women to get help, understand, when we understand what we're going through, it doesn't necessarily take it away, but we can then start to try and figure out what we need to get help and kind of access the help that we need.And even the healthcare profession is really, unfortunately, people are doing their best, and I always say this were underfunded, that overstretched, that overworked.And we don't, you know, they don't know what they don't know, but when we raise awareness, we can improve the care, um, and we can improve the lives of mothers and children because they're so inextricably linked.So that's my, that's my why, and also sorry, I need to add in there. I don't want my daughter to go through what I went through. I want her to, if she wants to become a mother, I want it to be different for her in, in the way that, um, she supported and understand.Because honestly, becoming a mother has been absolutely making of me. And it's as, as challenging as I have found it at times, especially in the beginning.I honestly wouldn't change it because she has given me the greatest gift of understanding myself and raising another human being, which really is actually the greatest honour of my life.And if I can change that for her, and if I can change that for generations to come, then I will have fulfilled my, my mission on earth in my lifetime. Beautiful, so beautiful.And one thing I just wanna pick up on what you just mentioned is about how, um, terrifying and we can't actually even put into words how terrifying that anxiety was for you and for anybody listening here.You know, every person's experience is unique, and nobody can know exactly what it is like to be in your body and to be in your experience. But I want you to know that we absolutely get that. That experience is awful, and I want you to know that we see that.And I also want to relate back to you saying, Sam, that you don't know how you got through it.And yet you also alluded to the reason why I believe that mothers do get through it. And, and it is not for them, but it is for their children. And there is something about becoming a mother that gives us this strength, this fierceness that we've always had within yours.By the way, we had to give birth to another person to give us the motivation to go, absolutely, I would go to the ends of the earth to do whatever I need to do for that little person, to advocate for them. And then we start to recognise, why am I not doing that for myself? And that's when we start to do the work that we parenting ourselves to.So what an incredible introduction, Sam. And so because I wanna really, really honour your story here, you know, this is part of your story, your early 40s. Now I wanna give you the space to really tell it, because it's important, and it's important that you're given the time to be able to do that in whatever way you need to share it. So you share whatever you wanna share.Talk for it however long you wanna talk, because this is your space, and this is your time.And so what I wanna do you, you talked about postpartum being a key time, and I am gonna come back to that, but I first wanna go back to pre, postpartum, you know, before you have the language and knowledge of what you now know is near a diversity.I want to take you back to what it was like for you before. What it felt like to you before, what patterns and moments from your younger self now that make total sense, but what that felt like to be you in that body, in that experience, and have absolutely no idea what was going on. What did it feel like for you then?So for me, ADHD, uh, and your, and university is, is complex, and this is a spectrum.We've, we've heard this, and in women particularly. We know that it displays and manifests very differently generally, cause obviously, there are men that also display differently to the typical what we call, like the naughty hyperactive boy.So for me and I, oh, also this is something that I don't think is talked about enough as well in, in the ADHD world even even the ADHD world, you know, we we, kind of um, again, we even, even within the, um, what I would say the the, the women that experience it.We hear a lot more about the difficulty of, kind of being disorganised, um, or late all the time, or kind of being really scatty and things like that. Um, and whilst perhaps that possibly makes up part of my story, and I think maybe more now, so as I unmask, it may well come to the for more.But the way that ADHD, I could looking back affected my life and me, um, had the biggest impact on my life was the emotional dysregulation and the intensity of that, the physical manifestation of, um, we have emotional dysregulation, we also have RSD, rejection sensitivity disorder, which rejection sensitivity dysphoria. Have I got that right, Laura?Um, is, I know this isn't recognised necessarily within, um, within psychology at the moment, but I know that the, the things are changing the way that I, that my body and brain reacts to, um, situations.And, and as I said, the emotional intensity was so overwhelming, and I can see that all the way back through to childhood.And, and I would be looking around and thinking, why am I feeling this so intensity, like, how can other people not see this particular thing or that person said something to me or about me, or and, and I sometimes seemingly innocently, um, or I would, I would have some feedback, and I I, you know, we know ADHD brains perceive feedback generally more negatively, even if it's neutral, like we even perceive neutral faces as negative.Um, and that impact is had on on on, on my body and my brain really was a big threat throughout my life, um, emotional outbursts, intensity. Like it's such a vis, visceral, visceral reaction.Like it's the only way I can describe it is like a heat of intense heat like passing through my body. My chest would feel tight, my throat would constrict and that, that could last for a while and that can run for a couple of days.And I, even before I found out I had ADHD, it's something I worked on a lot myself in kind of almost in isolation terms.I did. I just thought it was part of me being very sensitive. I was always told I was too sensitive, so dramatic. And, but I would say for me, that was the biggest impact it had on my life.And there are lots of many and now things I'm learning about ADHD, but for me, that has been the most disruptive for me. And, um, and and has that links to anxiety, um, and low mood.And, uh, it was, I was like, depression was never something that I resonated with because because of the way it kind of flows in and out, it's almost, uh, it's almost a, a state of, um you know, wouldn't necessarily last for sort of days, weeks or months.It was kind of really intense parts of the day, low mood and then you can kind of come out of it.And I know that many people have also been diagnosed by polo and actually it's ADHD because of the way we can cycle in and out of, though we were affected so intensely by things and we can cycle in and out of those, let's call the moods, you know, really, really so euphoric and maybe hyperactive and then going into that something affects us sensation, stimulation, emotions and then we kind of go down again.So, um, looking back like that complex in a world of mine, ruminating thoughts, deep thinking, oh, well, people call it overthinking.And while I'm not gonna use that term, because overthinking is actually seek feels, is derogatory. Um, but, but those kind of things, my thoughts get stuck in loops, and I will internalise things. And really, and then the effect it had on my self esteem throughout my life.And and, and again, like, having done so much work in therapy, especially, you know, since I had Luna. I've, I've had counselling therapy for, for many, many years.And one of the things was I recognise that my self esteem, even all, like, the work that I done was still very roller, really roller coaster again and again.Looking back, I can see that in my life. I can have times when I can, I can see the the, the great things that I've done or achieved or just as a person. But then now that really then rollercoastering into feeling like a lesser person.Um, and we know with women with ADHD especially, like uh, we, we often find it really hard to celebrate our achievements or recognise our achievements because our energy and our, um, let's call it productivity isn't consistent. So we almost feel like it's luck because we can't control that consistency.It's almost like, oh, well, it was luck that I did that because I did it that one time and then I didn't, couldn't do it for a long time, and then it kind of happened again, or I did something again, but it wasn't a consistency that we see as an, let's call it a neurotypical way of consistency and appreciate neurotypical isn't really a thing, but let's use it for this instance, so that all those things for me, I can really see that back through my life.All the things that, like, I achieved, I never really felt that I, I could really own those achievements. And even now, it's something that I really need to work on. And, um, because I, I don't recognise that the things that I've achieved, I never really feel, feel good enough. And that's really sad.That's really, really sad, salmon. And that makes me sad for you for, for every, every woman. And that really struggles to see and own their greatness.And I'm gonna refer back to a couple of stories. It sounds like I imagine you absorb growing up, too sensitive, too dramatic, and as I'm saying those now, how do those land with you right now? It really makes me so sad. Um, and it was, this is no shade on my family.My eye came from a very, very loving, stable family. And I actually know that, that stability gave me a real good scaffolding that supported my ADHD. So actually as a child, and this is what we often see when that scaffolding comes away later in life when you become more independent. Um.But yeah, it makes me really, really sad because they're the things that I've internalised and believed about myself and carried that through to friendships, you know, thinking I'm too much. Um. It's, yeah, it's really sad.And that's why as a parent, even before I knew I had ADHD, I believe that I've parented Luna as a neurodiverse child because of I parented her in the ways that perhaps I didn't, didn't get because of the lack of knowledge back then. And because that's why I am so careful with my words.And I think that has also driven an anxiety in me so we can almost go off the other way in that.But yeah, it's makes me really, um, let's go. But also there's a learning in there for me in the, maybe this was the work that I was meant to do and this is the way that I was meant to parent my child because of the experiences I had and the, and the words and the language that was used.And I know how how, how damaging language can be, um, to children because that becomes there in a monologue. Yeah yeah. And then we know that neurodiversity runs within families. And, um, I'm conscious of trying to tell this story in a kind of chronological way, but because you so beautifully within your introduction, talked about how postpartum was really a time when I suppose it became maybe more challenging for you to navigate a world made for a neurotypical brain. Um.And it feels like you naturally started to parent Luna in a way that you didn't get. And we know, right?That parents do the best that they can with the information and the resources that they've got us included. And when our children become parents, we know we will have got something wrong. Which is why I always say to everybody cannot get it perfect.We're always parenting in a new time. And so, but what we often forget to do, so we jump too soon to the compassion and the understanding that our parents didn't know any better, but the missing piece actually is allowing ourselves to feel all of the sadness, the grief, uh, the anger actually in the resentment at how little you that you mention.This is a big reason why you were doing this as well, telling this story for the little you that still lives inside you that didn't get what she needed or so rightly deserve that unconditional love for exactly who she was, no matter how her brain works, no matter what she does or do does not achieve, no matter how she feels or how she experiences life.And I think it's about also wondering, for anybody listening here, that you being angry or resentful of people that are good people that just did the best that they could is not you being a bad person, that it is you wondering feelings that need to be honest.Because if we jump too soon to compassion and understanding that, let's be honest, Sam, you know, people in neurodiversity have been trying to, kind of, be understanding and, you know, adapt to a neurotypical world all of their life.Come on, allow yourself to be mad and hungry. Oh my God, this is unfair. And then that's okay. That doesn't make you a bad person. And in doing that, what we're not doing is letting people bypass, cause if we try and bypass too soon too, I'm, I'm understanding.I get it without allowing yourself to feel the pain of not getting the life and the experiences that you say deserved as a child.What happens is that anger and that resentment actually comes out. It seeks out, and it can come out in things like maternal rage, um, and make us again, and especially safe for people with neurodiversity feel like a terrible person, cause you internalize that even more strongly. [...4.0s]I felt everything very deeply and emotionally. Um, I, I knew that whoever Luna was and whatever her personality was, it was really, really important for me to, to parent a child and teach her or help her, and also in a way parenting myself at the same time to help her understand her emotions, not be afraid of her emotions, allow her emotions, not try and shut them down.It was a, just a conscious, it was a consciousness in the fact that I knew that it wasn't something that I had. And again, it's just, it was a generational, it think, um, and yes, the, I've definitely been through periods of anger and and and, you know, for some time and and, and work through that. And, and not to say that, that is never gonna come up again.I'm, I'm on a slightly different journey now with, with the ADHD diagnosis and looking back, but recognising that, that mainly I would say the emotional, um, intensity or just as children have these, you know, emotional, emotional intensive times.I just knew it was really, really important whoever she was, whatever her personality was, and I to enable her to understand her emotions, work through them, not be afraid of them, talk about them, not be ashamed of them. Because shame sits really, really close, um, for me.I'm not sure whether that's neurotypical thing, but it or whether it's kind of almost like conditional, conditioning of being, uh, someone with neurodiversity in, in a neurotypical world.But we feel shame for, for us essentially being ourselves. So when we show parts of ourselves unacceptable, the shame comes very quickly.So I just knew that I wanted to do that, and it was very important for me with my husband as well to talk about this. Um you know, just who he is as as, as a man, and his personality, um, emotions on something that he likes to talk about or, um, and we've worked a lot on that.I've kind of had to meet somewhere, you know, I like to talk about my emotions. And, and he's not so much, but very much is very important that he I, he was along, along on the ride with me.And when I can see in him, he wants to make it better. Like when she, when Luna's upset, he wants to make it better.And we had to do a lot of work on, yeah, it's really uncomfortable for us to sit in the emotional intensity because number one, it feels viscerally uncomfortable and two, we don't want our children to suffer. But he understands that. And again, I'm not saying, you know, I know all the answers.I'm not saying I do it perfectly, but allowing her to feel what she's feeling without us fixing it, but just knowing that we're there with, with her or, or by her side or in the next room.Cause sometimes she doesn't want us to be near her when she's upset, but just knowing that she's there and just this constant and sometimes I don't really say a lot to her, but I, the one thing I do always make sure I say is when she's upset or even she doesn't want me to be near her, I love you, I love you no matter what your love, just those few words.Um, because we can feel the, our intensity or emotions are too much other people. And it's never, it was never that I was told that I was unloved or anything like that.And it's not that I necessarily felt that, but just knowing that however, we are behaving and perhaps there's sometimes, there are times when it might be unacceptable, but we love you no matter what is really the motto in my house. I love you no matter what.Hmm, and I think that sounds like the missing piece, doesn't it? And, you know, and again, often people talk about, you know, they almost feel, um, bad about, um kind of throwing shade on their own parenting. You know, I knew my parents loved me, I do exactly the same you.One thing I knew and believe me, you know, my childhood was turbulent, eh, but this isn't about me.But I suppose what I really wanna refer to here is, is one, you know, lots of people look at, you will look at me, will look at so many high functioning women and assume we've, um, had a relatively plain saving life. And often that isn't the case.Um, and I suppose it's also about recognizing that sometimes, you know, we, they can be this sense of kind of like a kind of, no, um, I'm loved, but I suppose the difference is now, is, um, so what we, what we grew up believing is, um, should, um, and by the way, for everybody listening, I, I am definitely neurotypical, you know, I'm not neuro diverse.I am well aware of my neurotypical white British privilege here. So and, you know, and always really conscious to say that, because I have no idea what it is like to live in Sam's brain or anybody with a neurodiverse brain.And I, I think you're all incredible, by the way. And please all be my friend, because I just think you're amazing. She wants to die for me in here. I'm like yay.Come in conversations with me all of the time. I just want it. And I get a lot of document hits from Laura, by the way. If you haven't noticed from this this, you know, this obviously more of a serious conversation, but, yeah, she, she's a hit for me.She's my drug, [...3.5s] you know, the the, the missing pieces. We felt neurotypical, neurodiverse, but also, you know, really kind of the neurodiverse Nord. Here is the rejection the RSD, the rejection sensitivity, dysphoria, the emotional dysregulation is more intense.Of course, you guys feel it more intensely. But ultimately what we would like to believe is love was conditional and how you're shaping that, how you're doing things differently with Luna is you were teaching her that your love for her is not conditional. Does that mean that you are going to love sitting with a dysregulated child?Absolutely not. You know, he is hard works. Sitting with somebody in their dysregulation when you are still learning, I imagine somehow to do that for yourself that is hard, but you're doing it because you want to teach her that her emotions, in a way that you were never taught are okay, acceptable. It's okay for her to feel it.To help her to recognise that she can move through it without fixing it or avoiding it or taking away or pushing it down. And that no matter how she shows up in the world, that you love her completely, totally for exactly who she is.And that feels like the missing piece and the difference about what you've learnt that you didn't get from your own or bringing that you want to gift to Luna.Yeah, absolutely, yeah, you really, um yeah, you, you really nailed that and it's really, it was really probably is one of the most fundamental parts of my parenting, um, to, to give her that.And it's it's, yeah, it's it's, it's the I'd, she doesn't have to behave in ways that are accessible for me, for me to be, um, to find her acceptable or to, yeah, for for, for all of that.So, yeah, it's really, um, it's really fundamentally important for me. The, um, and you know what? I mess up, of course I mess up, I get annoyed, I get disregulated, I don't even always recognise my own dysregulation now and again, that's something that I really, really learning, um, because I have really, I and as, as emotionally intense as the emotional intensity that I do feel, I still have pushed some of it down, so it's still there for me. And then the next step for me is the repair with her, to say sorry.As a parent really to say sorry is one, again, one of the most fundamental parts of it, it's I'm sorry that wasn't your fault. I behaved in that way and it wasn't your fault. It's not I behaved in a way because you did this. It's, it's, I'm sorry.I shouldn't have spoken to you like that. What happened, should have shouted or taking up responsibility for myself and not that she did something that made me that way because ultimately that's not taking responsibility. So, yeah, I mess up a lot. I repair a lot.And I, it's really interesting, I, I recognise that in her, like she is so quick to say sorry. Um. And there are sometimes I say to her like, you, you didn't need to say sorry. Then it's like, you, you don't, she's always gone the other way.And I sometimes say like, you don't need to say sorry. This is just like, you didn't do anything wrong there, thank you.But, um, and also is kind of teaching the nuance of, of that. Because, um, it's, you know, that, that will lead into her other relationships of, you know, recognizing when somebody needs repair with her.And, yeah, it's, you know, so, yeah, it's a really important part of our relationship and that it's made me say sorry more to, to Kevin.He was, if we ever had an argument, he was always the one he would calm down a lot quicker. He would want to smooth over quicker, but more brush under the carpet. Shall we say?But he was very much like, oh, I'm sorry and kind of move on. And I found it very, very hard to say sorry. And that was because looking back now, I know and and, and I still experience this because I felt with him, and I don't feel it with Luna. Um, but I felt with, with him.I was basically saying sorry and admitting that I was a bad person, and there was something fundamentally flawed in me, and that felt too painful, whereas now I recognize No. 1, the importance of it and No.2, it doesn't, doesn't necessarily mean that, but it's so interesting my relationship with, with that.It's not like I never ever said sorry to him, but he was always very quick too. And I I, that's a trait in him that I really admire that he can he, he was able to do that, and he taught me that as well in our relationship.So, yeah, there's so much in what you've just said that I really wanna pick up on their cannabis themes to kind of just really reflect back, um, just for one, the the, the values that you're modelling to Luna and how she's picking up on that and how you're seeing that, that modelling is coming through in her behaviour.Because for me, I believe that we potentially don't talk about that enough really within parenting. You know, we get told, you know, this is right, this is wrong, you know, these terms get thrown about gentle parenting, what the bloody hell does that even mean?Do you know what I mean? Um you know, for me it's about, you know, what are the values that you want to instill within your child? What values are important to you?And how can you actually model that through not telling them but showing them, but also a step further in what you've just mentioned in terms of the nuances of that, you know that these are complex skills teaching humility and when it is important to take accountability for your behaviours, but also when actually, you know, you stop and you reflect and you actually sit with yourself and you consider, but actually genuinely, what is there any part of this that I do need to take accountability and apologize for?But also another part of it that we also need to recognise when sometimes we haven't done anything wrong and to stand in our power. And not, I suppose, because, you know, thinking about adult may, you know, certainly this is something that I've had to learn.I know you too, Sam. I'm probably in a way quite quick. Sometimes you take too much accountability which is a result of that.What that means is sometimes people can take your kindness for weakness and actually it's this beautiful balance of, yes, take accountability when you've done something wrong, but set healthy boundaries and know and, and don't let people walk all over you, yeah, and have be fierce with that.I think this is a really complex skill and the fact that you're teaching this to your daughter, um, is so incredibly important.You know, the balance between that softness of being a beautiful woman that's able to earn their mistakes and learn from their mistakes and that it's okay to make mistakes and they don't need to be perfect, that's also being fierce enough to say, I'm not gonna put up with that. I just think that it's just such a beautiful thing to model to our children.So I really wanna pick up on that and also I'm going to pick up on the thing that you mentioned the thread with Kevin, because I know we've talked about this already and when, um, people with neurodiversity, you know, the these kind of relationship dynamics, neurodiversity, neurotypical, you know, and there's so much of what you just said about how and the reasons why you found it difficult to say sorry and take accountability for your mistakes.And there has been times as a neurotypical myself and I have been in dynamics with people that, um, a new reserverse and I've kind of not quite been able to understand certain behaviours.And I think what you've just shown there is that it is so much more complex than they just not taking accountability or they're, um you know, that they're just selfish or self absorbed or don't care or what, whatever narrative we may is a, is a neurotypical come up within our head.And we all neurodiverse, neurotypical. We all come up with our own stories in our head, but it's about recognizing that actually there is so much more going on in the inner world of the other person. Psychological wounds date back years.Yeah, how your brain works, and actually, you know, nobody can understand what exactly is going on in the inner world of another unless they share that with us. And, and many won't, many won't.And I think an important thing to take away, you know, however our brain works is, is, you know, this whole not taking things personally because actually that it is not, it is, you know, this whole saying often say it's more about that, that person whatever, whatever is going on within that dynamic.And it is because it is so incredibly complex, you know, and like you said, the individual is still trying to work out what is going on for them. So how's the person gonna work that out?So I suppose sure, also alluding to here is relationships evolving grow yours and Kevin's has evolved and grown. And I suppose this is a challenge and the opportunity for growth is as somebody that is never diverse navigating relationships with a new typical right, yeah, yeah, for sure.And it's, it is a lifelong learning really, cause, cause there's things, you know, we picked up from our own parents or people around us or generation. Like, there's just so much in there.Um, but it is a learning and growing, and actually communication, um, is, as we know, with one of the most important things. And, um, I, it's not surprisingly love to talk, and he doesn't so much. So I have to catch you at the right time.Um, he knows he's in for a big conversation sometimes that he's like steals himself. Um, but he and I also have to recognise that I process things a million miles an hour because my brain goes a million miles an hour, and I'm million steps ahead.And then I, then I'm talking to you about something and expecting him to be up here, and he's always like, I can see the defence in him alike. And and, and there has been conflict there because I'm the, I'm like, what do you mean you do?And and, and then once he's processed it, he's along for the ride and he's there. And and, but I have to recognise that as as as, as well myself.And, um, it's it's it's it's, it's been quite comical sometimes because I can see my brains literally right over here. Um, and I just have to, he just processes things differently.Um you know, I, I definitely spent that as neurodiverse people, we spend so much time in our heads often, and that's really, really exhausting. Um, it takes up a lot of energy, but also have to recognise that he, um, he will he will he will, he will get there.But it's just that I've been thinking about this thing for a long period of time, and then maybe mid mid, mid thought. I'm like popping things out and talking to him, and he's like, what are you talking about where you haven't even started the, the senses, cause you're like mid thought.So it's a lot of learning and growing. And, um, and actually we we, he deals with a lot of things with humour, um, and which is great, but there's also times where I'm like, this isn't funny, you know, this particular thing isn't funny at that moment in time.And then we will laugh, but he actually, um, that's how he deals with a lot of things. And sometimes it is great because it does diffuse what's happening.And I, and I would come back to that and say he, um, when I was in postpartum and, um, the, the really challenging time, um um, one of the things that for me that was, was most challenging was the intrusive thoughts. And we know that I think the figure was something like 80 to 90% of new parents.So mothers and fathers experience intrusive thoughts. And I think this figure is kind of flowing, but I I I, I didn't need to adopt a boy years ago.And she did some research into this, but I I, I believe that the time she was saying she thinks the figures is a lot higher, but we don't always recognise it.Anyway, but yeah, the intrusive thoughts were really awful for me, um, because they were related to my baby and then because my brain hooked onto those intrusive thoughts and they looked round and round and round.And then I attached guilt to those because I was thinking, how can I even think these things about my child? Um, and then, then the shame came very quickly after that.And then it was almost like that was reinforcing the fact that I was a bad mother because that was a loop in my mind that I was a bad mum because I didn't feel XYZ about a particular situation, um, in the way that I was, I felt like I should have.We can come back to those expectations and how they really played on me. But the intrusive thoughts when I, they were very disturbing and very, um, distressing with the word what I actually meant to say distressing, but actually I was able to talk to Kevin about those.And there were times when we laughed because they were so ridiculous and he had some as well, but the way that he, he was able to deal with them a lot more level headed, but we would talk about them and save each other.And actually we the the, the humour took the, brought some lightness to the situation. Um, so I always say this, you know, he, he was the steady ship that I needed.That, that brought some likeness to situation sometimes, which did, did help at times when I was really, really struggling with those, with intrusive thoughts, which was a big part of my challenges.And postpartum, you've just so beautifully reflected on, again, a really, really important thing we don't talk about enough, um, just the realities of what it means to be in a long term relationship in general, uh, how that long term relationship changes and evolves as you become parents and still continuing to choose each other even though it is hard over and over and over again.And, and the birth challenges, but also the beauty of those neurotypical and neurodivers dynamic set. Really beautiful to hear you talk about that relationship and how it's evolved and how it supported you, um, and how you've loved each other through, um, the hard times.And I wanna go back to your postpartum experience and because I know that this was a time whereby up until that point, um, I think we've talked about this outside of this podcast, that, you know um, you were able to kind of hold that mask up, um, still challenging, still facing all of that emotion, intense, emotional dysregulation, kind of the, um, intensity of your thoughts, um kind of the rejection, sensitivity, dysphoria, but the, I know when postpartum hit you that this was a time when the mass slipped and when it became much more challenging to, um, be new, diverse in a new typical world even though you have no idea that's what it was.And, you know, just as you're talking about kind of the intrusive thoughts, you're right, yes, there are.And I would say that probably almost universal and they probably are some people that maybe don't have various differences being simple, pretty much of the figure I would say is pretty universal intrusive thoughts in parenthood.But I imagine because of how your brains work that, that makes it even more intense and again the emotions that come with that even more intense.So I suppose, you know, we, we've talked about how intense that period was for you. So I wanna give you an opportunity to talk a little bit more about that, but also as well the point when you started to recognise maybe your difference was related to neurodiversity.Hmm yeah, so postpartum for me was now reflecting back, I can see it. Let's be real here. Postpartum can be, doesn't need, doesn't all, it doesn't have to be if we supported women properly, if we understood matrescence. The postpartum is generally, I would say for most women, not all is a very challenging time.So it can be, so I, so I understand into some extent why it could be messy undiagnosed neurodiversity because we already know that postnatal anxiety and postnatal depression are very real and very possible. And the figures are high, but No 1. We know they're high because we have unsupported postpartums.And when I say unsupported, Joe, I have a brilliant husband, I have my family. Although actually at the time when Luna, who was just born, my dad had to go to hospital in the first couple of weeks. So, but, if they weren't around, but that is not, so postpartum really is not supporting the way it should be. And, and this is not the episode for that.But, but the way that women are, right, we, we raise children, and the way that we were evolutionary programmed to raise children is not the way that we do in western society now. Um, so that in itself we know that, but looking back, I can see my postpartum. A lot of the reasons why it was so challenging was because of the undiagnosed neurodiversity.Because, because of the number one, the massive, massive hormone drops that we experience. And we know that, um, we know the, the connections between estrogen and dopamine, for example, in, in neuro, in brains ADHD, we have trouble accessing the dopamine tonight.My understanding is that we don't necessarily have different levels of dopamine in our brain, but it's the way that, um, we can access that dopamine and the levels fluctuate and it's complex and I, I'm not a neuroscientist, but that's my understanding of it.So if we then have a massive drop in hormones, um, in postpartum, obviously that's like a sledgehammer to our, uh, our system and we can't access the dopamine and the regulation and the calming effects of, um you know, for example, progesterone to help us sleep because we are sleep, our sleep is, um, disrupted.So all of those things are the hormone disruption and the disruption to our sleep because sleep was definitely one of my, uh, parts of my scaffolding that, that I had created to, to keep myself on a level on, on a level before.Um um, and obviously when that's completely disruptive, my circadian rhythm was disruptive because I was up in the middle of the night and I keep trying keep myself awake by looking at a screen because Luna wouldn't sleep.Um, well, it, it in a in a bed in a, in a cot for and the first 7 weeks, which I know again is evolutionary normal.But we, again, we taught that there's something wrong with our after our baby if, you know, they won't sleep in a cot without us. So anyway, we take it in turn to be up and just the way that it disrupted my circadian rhythm.All of that, so that in itself, in terms of the physiological part, I know for me, it was just so intense and I was in, uh, panic. So, you know, we have anxiety and then we have the panic that, that can come from that.So I had a constant level of anxiety and any small thing would tip me into a panic, even really, really stupid thing. And I look back now and, and I have compassion. And I'm not saying this to say I was stupid, that was stupid.What say like really small things, like people would say to me, don't go to baby groups. And they're like, how many weeks old is your baby?And you're like, I can't remember because I'm so sleep deprived, but I would beat myself up, but I'll be like, oh my god, cause it's that, you know, you always get the person that's like, my baby is 7 weeks and 3 days old.And you'd be like, I have no fucking clue because I'm so tired and that, and so, but I would beat myself up about that.Yeah, I felt like I was treading through MUD. And again, we know that indeed executive dysfunction is challenging. We have executive dysfunction, and so like even things like organising things, which again, are different when you're tired and things like that on its own difficult, but when you have that executive dysfunction, organization can feel really difficult. And it's just everything just piles up.But for me, really it was that internal monologue of I felt like I was failing at something. Again, I think when you have this rock, uh, roller coaster in self wear as a neuro, often nurse, neurodiverse person and I don't speak for all neurodiverse people, this is my experience.And I know this is very common, but obviously not for everybody. It was almost like another reason to show that I was failing at something, but I wasn't good enough. Again, like this constant feeling of never feeling enough I've put of like yeah, you're not good enough. You, um, you're failing at something and, um, you'd.And because this for me was the most important thing in my life and always will be, being a mother, the most important thing in my life, it had that intensity to it.So it wasn't like, you know, failing an exam can feel very, very difficult. And again, I'm not saying if someone feels that really, really intensely, that's, that's wrong, but for me, it was, it was the motherhood part of, well, I'm failing at something that's really, really important to me.And again, socially, we know as women, we have been conditioned to believe, conditioned to, and almost groomed into this becoming a mother is the Pinnacle, but also we don't value motherhood in the same way.That's a whole other conversation, but it's almost like we are judged against how good a mother we are.So if you're not measuring up to these unrealistic and un, an unrealistic and an unachievable expectations that we are, that we experience in modern motherhood that's constructed by society for modern mothers, that they aren't achieveable anyway, no matter who you are as a neuro diverse person, you we, you know, we feel like we aren't, we can't measure up. Again, this is another reason why we can't measure up.So obviously, I didn't, I didn't understand this at the time, but looking back, I can see the intensity just snowboarding on itself. And that just contributed to anxiety. Just this constant loop of you're a bad mum, you're failing her, you're, you're basically a shit mum. She deserves better.What the hell are you doing? You don't, I almost had this point of, you're not enjoying this experience. So this means that you don't love your child. And that was so difficult to deal with because I knew I loved her, but because it felt so hard and challenging, my brain was telling me that, well, surely you don't love her because you're not loving every moment of this, which is obviously we know this unrealistic, but at the time and, and I can see now looking back that social conditioning and it continues today and is, it is exacerbated by social media and culture of what mothers are expected to do without any was, without, oh, you know, we know that gabamatte said, didn't he?That that motherhood, mothering today is the hardest it's been since World War 1, and we have fewer resources today. So it was just really a constant daily battle with my thoughts of, because I, at that time, I didn't understand that thoughts weren't truths. And because even perhaps if I did understand that because I was so dysregulated, it just perpetuated and on and on and on and then I didn't sleep and then I couldn't sleep, and I was more anxious and more dysregulated, and it was panic after panic after panic and remember one particular weekend, I was physically shaking for a whole weekend and I didn't sleep.I just had this constant shaking of panic. And I remember, um, I, so again, breastfeeding was a really, really challenging time and I didn't manage to, I, I breastfeed her a little bit at the beginning and she had a tongue tie. And even then that didn't work out. That was another thing that I blamed myself for. Um, I was failing.I was rubbish. I wasn't trying hard enough. Look all the other women that are finding it challenging but still managing to do it. Um, and that added to my mum, the guilt that I felt as a mother. And then I also looking back, didn't really know how to look after myself in the way that I needed.Because before I had Luna, I clearly was able to have the space and time that I needed to regulate myself, sleep, social, and then time on my own without even realising that that time that I had in my life, I didn't sort of plan it in. When those things are stripped away, you're left with when you don't understand why you need those things. We need them as humans anyway, but when you're neurodiverse, that stimulation occurs differently to us and affects us differently.And also something else I wanna touch upon is actually having a baby in early stages was, was very lonely and isolating at times, and also really boring at times.And again, even that thought of boring for me was another reason to make tell myself I was a bad mum. But if you how are you finding this boring? Surely if you find this boring, this means that you don't love her or don't love being a mum.And again, I know now and I remember actually talking, so I ended up getting a counselor my own counselor when Luna was about 18 months old. And it's something I remember talking to her about a lot.The feeling of boredom in my body is another visceral reaction. It's so uncomfortable. And again, we know this is the low dopamine. We're chasing dopamine. And we, so as a mother, I felt constantly overstimulated but also understimulated at the same time.That simultaneous confusion and, you know again, why can't you just be satisfied with just being at home with your baby and just, you know doing some songs and whatever that might be and, and that kind of, you know it.And it's not that we never experience boredom other times of life for our child, but that when their babies has lots of time, perhaps when you're at home with them, if they're, you know what, you wanna get them into sleep pattern because that helps or whatever, that boredom again for me, the things that came up, so it was a constant criticism of myself judgement all the time. I've always been very hard on myself and again I can recognise this. So it really has only been it's been less than a year.No, that's a lie that's a lie I think I, a couple of years ago, I did say to my cancer the time I think I've got ADHD, and I can't remember where that came from. And she did say to me, well, and she didn't necessarily dismiss it, but she said, well, a psychiatrist would ask you these kind of questions.And when those questions that she said to me didn't resonate with me, because again, I would say they were probably more in line with what we would call a naughty a naughty hyperactive boy, I did, I thought, oh, well, that's just that's just me trying to find an excuse for myself because I'm lazy.I don't I don't see, I don't have much success because I'm lazy and inconsistent. Um, and I just need to try harder and why can't I just get myself together? And then really it's been in the last so six to eight months, and I'm laughing now cause I'm thinking of a scenario which kind of LED me to this, um, of six to eight months probably, um, um connecting with other business women.And we know that women in business women who I run around business have got a there's a high level of neurodiversity within that before very many reasons why we find it difficult perhaps in, uh, in the kind of workplace. Um, I remember, and she won't mind me.She was saying, Wendy, she was, I did my brand photography with her back in September, and we'd had a call.I think it was literally the first call I had with her, and some people might would might take offenses, but I thought it was hilarious, she said to me, she said cause I, I think I knew, I think she had a necklace on that says ADHD AF, and I can't remember whether I said something about it or whether. And she's like, well, you got it as well, haven't you? Or something.And I was like, whatever. And then and she said, every time I see her, she'd be like, so you got it sorted or whatever.Anyway. And then I remember I met somebody else who's a friend of hers, but, um, actually she's Annabelle, she's producing this podcast. Um, and when I met her, and she was like, he was well, kind of thing.And it was I laughed at, because actually, you know they read me, and they knew that I'd, um, you know received that well. And, and and so, so through business, really I would say I started connecting with women who I recognise myself in. Um, and then it kind of went from that.And actually that's where I see social media is great, because yes, there is some misinformation on there, of course, and you have to filter it through, and you have to, you know the people that are citing thing. And, but actually I would say lived experience is also really important.Not as if say you take that all of face value, but you can take some of that and then maybe do your own research. But for three social media, I started to recognise the stories and the experiences.Um, and then it went from there and then I look back at and it was really the missing piece because I just I was because, uh, because even, even though I done a lot of work on myself since Luna and I have so many tools in my tool kit to help myself, to help regulate myself, to make sure I take time for myself.And that's a whole other that's the whole other story. And I've actually done an episode for the podcast on this about self. So let's call it self care. I hate that word, but looking after ourselves and understanding how we work and regulating ourselves, um, I had to learn, I've lost my thread now. I had to learn all of that, um, throughout as Luna got older.But I would, I felt there was, so I'm like, you know I really, and then of the studying that we've done with Amy and the, yeah, the constant studying and research that I always do, reading and listening and finding out as much as I can about everything.Um, and I supporting other women who have been through motherhood and gone back to work through their experiences, but there was, I always felt that I kind of would go I would have these cycles of times where I just didn't understand what was going on.And yes, the human experience is complicated. We don't always know what's going on. But now I look back and I can, and I really recognise how, where they were triggered, the thoughts that triggered them, but also the reason why the thoughts came with those experience that I had, because of being a neurodiverse woman living in a neurotypical world and constantly believing that I'm not lazy, not good enough or not trying hard enough, questioning myself, berating myself, bullying myself, criticizing myself. Um.And then I'd have times of like some good self compassion, and then I'd cycle back into it and I'd look at other people, and I think how have they moved on so much in what they're doing and, and and able to pull themselves out of these things.And I just, and that was really the missing piece to understanding. Ah, okay yeah this, this this makes my life make sense in so many ways. Hmm, so you've talked about a few things that wanna reflect back on, Sam, thank you so much and for sharing that.It was, yeah, beautiful for me to hear it. And I have heard it in bits, but not in such a, um, in a way where you have just allowed yourself to share it unapologetically. And I think it's really showing us how much probably is people, we, we kind of uh cut our story short.And because I don't know, we don't wanna bother people, we don't wanna bore people, whatever the stories are. We tell ourselves and say, but I know I wanna hear these stories. You know people want to hear these stories and people want to share these stories.I think it's important that we have spaces for these stories. Now you've talked about a few things there that I wanna come back to. And for me, what I'm hearing because I'm hearing a lot of when I reflect that when I reflect that and links, and we often were a society that won a lot of quick fixes.And, you know when I suppose if we if we're looking at it from a nearer device lines like, oh, definitely face, you know great, you know I'm like no more, did, you know, give it me, now, give me the answer quick, quickly, feat.You talked about with Kevin and kinda wanted to fix them when the donations all of that, right? Uh, you know we order something now, we can get it the next day. This sometimes Amazon actually delivered the same day.That blows my mind. I'm like whoa, like, what should we do? I have to wait till next week for the episode next episode of that series anymore. We can binge watch it. Like, literally, we are living in a society where we get instant gratification.And obviously as a psychotherapist, I know the amount of people that want to that come into therapy or read a self help book or whatever they go to to find some sort of understanding of themselves or to help themselves.Most people, you know and myself included, you know this, I think it's kind of a learning journey to stop and, and be patient with ourselves and our learning and our revolution, but we wanna be better. We wanna be fixed.We want the answer now. And, but actually all of the things that you've just talked about was a process you needed to go through so much time, so much processing that our brains and our bodies cannot take all of that experience in that knowledge, you know over a couple of weeks to process it and go, oh my God, yes, I understand that and why that happened and that and oh yeah and that's the learning I've got from it.And oh, oh my God, now that makes turtles the, it's a process and I'm hearing you now reflecting back and how much learning and how much growth and what we often miss.I think as human beings is the beauty of growth. And gosh, it is hard gosh. It is hard to grow, to evolve, to learn, to go through the messy bits of what it means to be human.And it is messy and it is hard, but oh my god, the growth and the learning, God, if we did not have that lot and we got that instant gratification I've got I've had the lesson, I process the feeling I've got, the learning, like how boring would life be if we got that instantly?And wow, in the times when I, myself and I know you, Sam, if we can just remember that, that the messy bits of bits, it just feel like I'm never gonna get out of it even though we kinda know that we will to recognize a reason gonna be growth at the end of this series gonna be learning.And that's what I'm hearing for you and that's what I want all of your listeners to know. Wherever you are on your journey of postpartum, of motherhood, of parenthood, of kind of questioning. Am I near a diverse of having a diagnosis?So wherever you are that actually you absolutely will get through this and all of these big challenges can be the making of you, but you've got to go through it. It's that, um, that, that child story, the bear hunt. We can't go over it.We can't go under it, gotta go through it. But wow, when we do the pay off, the growth, it is huge. And it is just so beautiful to hear you reflect on all of your learning, but in order to get to where you are now, you have to go through a lot of crap, a lot of struggle.And of course, we know the journey of evolution and discovering ourselves and learning and growth is, is is ever evolving. But it feels like a big thing that has helped you is that word community, community of music got you that listen to you that, that way you felt safe to be you.Community of women that saw themselves in you and you saw themselves in them to go.Oh my God, for your shoulders to drop for you to go. It isn't just me. There is nothing wrong with me or we're all too sensitive and we're all too dramatic. And yes, let's be sensitive and dramatic together. You know what a beautiful gift for you to have now, a long, painful journey. Such a gift.And for me, I, I I know as a neurotypical person spending so much time with people with these gorgeous new without this brains, I just find you absolutely fascinating.I love spending time with you and I just wondered, Sam, and I know you're really on your journey and I know you've only just got your diagnosis, but are you starting to see any gifts that you're near a diverse brain give you? Yeah, it's, I, I think I'd already knew I had some of these gifts before I was diagnosed, but I feel like I'm, I'm going to be able to embrace them more. Um, but before I, I just wanna just come back to your point on community. And I would say community and support is, is really one of the biggest things.Somebody else, even if it's just one other person, listens to you, gets you, enables you to be yourself. And you are one of those beautiful people in my in my in my circle that I feel like I can be fully myself with. And that is such a gift.And I and I have many gifts of those people in my life. And, and people like you have enabled me to explore who I am in a really a really safe and brave space.Because I felt like I've had to hide parts of myself for many, many years and in many friendships because of the reasons I talked about too much, too dramatic. And the women that I have in my life, um, and I include my husband and my family, the women that I have in my life have enabled me to explore that in a way that has meant that I can be fully myself because they accept themselves.And I'm not saying, you know we all have things about ourselves that, you know we, we were like we we're exploring and whatever.But they're comfortable with themselves and they enable me to be comfortable with myself, and they give me confidence to be myself and enabled me to really find who I am. Because connecting back with myself, um, has been something I would say that I've been on a journey on since I've, I've had Luna. Becoming a mum has awakened me to my inner world.And my inner world has always been very, very rich and very, very deep and complex and beautiful.And I've known that I've improve that connection with myself and it right got back to when you said the beginning, the work that you do, it enables parents and mothers and fathers to really find out who they are and what they want in life.And that's the mission in my work of people living and thriving as exactly who they are, but finding out themselves and finding their own journey, the path that's right for them. But that's a real deep connection with ourselves that takes time over years and years and years.And now I've forgotten the rest of your question, and I knew I'd do that. What was the matter? I love that and, and to be fair, it's me getting carried away to just, just going. So I love it.Well, darling, they were, I warn you because I see the gifts, oh, the gifts. Yeah, we are ordinary, diversity gives you. And also I think I wanna say just kind of framing this question so we know yourself and I will know my trust.Is this a beautiful, messy, chaotic, challenging journey of what it mean, means to be a mother and how our identity evolves as we move, entering to a, move through motherhood, our sense of self, what we value, what's important to us changes. I actually believe that any huge life changing news does, does the same.I just think motherhood is one of the biggest life changing transitions we can go through that gives us this biggest sense of question of who we even are now. For me, I believe part of your matrice's journey and your journey of evolution is finding out that you have ADHD.And so I suppose the me, when I would love for you to reflect, hug with the frame of you, seeing it as a gift is to how this diagnosis is, this, the language is awareness now how this is shaped your sense of self, how you see yourself, how you see the gifts this part of your identity gives you. Hmm, [...2.1s] I am learning to trust my intuition more. And I actually have a really strong sense of intuition, um, or have a really strong intuition, but I've ignored it for a long time. I can read people really well. I can read, I have a really high bullshit, um, radar, so I, I know people's energy.I can read. I've always been able to read that. Um, and I'm, I have Learned, and I'm still learning to trust that. Because it's, it's always right the feelings that I have about people, um, the way I feel around people. It's a feeling.It's not it's not a logic, not necessarily logical. I can make it maybe logical afterwards, but initially, it's the feelings of my intuition is really stronger, and I can actually in, in the work that I do.I can really feel the energy from, from the women that I'm working with, and the things that they're saying, and, and and that kind of guides me into, into helping them, guide them. And alongside that is the, really the the sensitive and emotional, emotional intelligence that I have.I understand and can feel people's emotions and can help them navigate that. And that sort of deep emotional sensitivity, I think drives me for a strong sense of justice as well. Um, and again, that's why I'm so passionate about my work and that, you know being, being um, um a matrescence activist, it drives me.I have such a deep sense of, um, of justice that it's, and you, you can't fake that because that passion has to drive you, because, you know we obviously hit roadblocks and, and it's, it's it's a lot.But that, yeah, my emotion intelligence, um, and the way that I can communicate that with other people and recognise that and themselves.Um, and I also, uh, again, this was a journey I was already on, but, but but through my dive neurodiversity, I can I can now, I'm now understanding people a lot more in the way that their behave, their behaviours, um, and understanding my own RSD isn't always about me, it's other people.So, so so, you know understanding about neurodiversity is really opened a really big world for me in terms of other people's behaviours and drivers.Um, and I, I also feel that, you know and this is important in the work that I do that I can offer again, a safe and brave space for people to be themselves.And for me, if I, I hope one of the biggest gifts I can offer as, as a friend or, um, in my work. And actually I see people that I work with, not really as clients, their, their friends and family. Um, I, I hope, um, that I am a place where they can be fully themselves.Because I feel like that's one of the greatest gifts that we can give people to be fully themselves in, in your presence. Because isn't it is about how we make people feel and when they're with us, not what we said.So I feel for me feel for me that I hope that, that is one of the biggest gifts that I give. And I wanna make a really important link from something that you mentioned earlier in the episode about little Yang.Little Sam, Sam that had no language or knowledge as to what was going on within her brain was labelled as too sensitive as too dramatic, let to dim parts of herself. And the biggest thing that you mentioned was one of your challenges was the emotional dysregulation and the emotional intensity. Now with language and knowledge and understanding of your sense of self, you have been able to use the most challenging part of your neurodiversity as one of your greatest gifts to help others to see themselves fully, completely totally authentically, to see yourself totally unapologetically on the authentically and to know that you are good enough just as you are.Step learning to step into that every single day more and more so and see yourself as every single person is, is a gift to this world.When they get out of their own way of all of the labels that they were told to believe about themselves and who they are in this world and what makes them worthwhile or what makes them good enough or not good enough, that actually deep down we are all good enough just as we are.When we truly step into who that person is and learn to channel the unique gifts that you got and to be able to use that to give back to make the world a better place.So for me that feels like absolutely the gift of who, not just you, you're never to this brain, but here you are, which brings me on sound to your closing question that you ask all of your guest is what is given the nature of this topic, I think, what is the one thing that you would tell a new mother in the thick of early postpartum? Oh, this is, I should know the answer to this question because I ask this question to all people and it's basically the, all my work, um, and the thing that comes to mind. And actually for me, this doesn't feel like a perfect answer, but it's what's coming to mind and it's how, how I'm feeling.So let's go with it. And it's, it's something that I actually tell Luna every single day and I also feel by telling her, I'm telling that little girl in myself as well. And I whisper it to her when she's asleep and I tell her when she's going to sleep and I tell her everyday. I tell her, you are enough and you are perfect just as you are, no matter what.And I would say that to the new mum. And I hear it feels sometimes like a, you know we hear people talking about podcast, so, you know you are enough just as you are. But I really want you to know that because when I was in the depths of postpartum anxiety, I want you to know that if you are in that point and listen to at that point now and listening to this, you are enough just as you are. And you can also find out more about yourself to help you understand yourself, but that isn't, not going to make you a different or a better person. Know that whatever you're going through, you are enough just as you are. I can't think of a better way for you to end this episode. Um.And thank you thank you for letting me hold space for your story. It is been just a beautiful honour and I'm so grateful for you gifting me that too.So thank you, oh, Laura, thank you so much. I've absolutely loved this and I couldn't think of a better person. And I'm sure the listings will agree like what a beautiful soul you are and you, yeah, you were the perfect person to do this.So thank you thank you thank you for listening to this episode. If anything really resonated with you, I'd love to hear from you. You can leave the comments if you're listening on Spotify or come and find me in my DMS on Instagram.You'll find everything you need to collect with me in the show notes.

And if you're looking for more structured support as you navigate motherhood, identity or returning to work, you can find more about how I can support you through these seasons in your life there too.

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You've been listening to you've had a baby, not a lobotomy with me, Samantha Murrell.

This is an independent podcast produced by Decibel Creative.

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