In this episode, Lorenzo shares his inspiring journey from his early days with Arquimia in Spain to becoming a pivotal figure in Miami's burgeoning tech & crypto landscape.

We discuss the nuances of succeeding as a founder in Web3, and the importance of perseverance, adaptability, and community-building. Lorenzo's journey illustrates the shift from Web2 to Web3, providing listeners with a roadmap for building Web3 companies that last. Lorenzo offers practical advice for aspiring entrepreneurs looking to make their mark in crypto.

Episode Outline and Highlights

[00:03] Lorenzo's Story

• Discover Lorenzo's early tech days with Arquimia in Spain
• His big move to Miami and work with Rokk3r
• How he helped incubate over 50 ventures
• The Web3 Chapter

[14:11] Essential Traits for Startup Success

• Finding the right balance between talent and perseverance
• Why humility and continuous idea validation matter
• The mindset of questioning and evolving ideas for success in entrepreneurship

[24:14] Leadership for Founders

• The hurdles in moving from IC to leadership
• How the entrepreneur is like a chef
• The importance of operational leadership and the potential need for a COO

[34:56] Building Strategic Assets for Startups

• Spotting and addressing skill gaps early
• The value of building networks and communities before product development
• Learning from others’ mistakes and planning strategically for success

[40:03] Success Factors in Startup Ecosystems

• How accelerators help shape successful startups
• Learning from successful entrepreneurs and using feedback effectively
• The impact of timing and luck in Web3
• Benefits of a strong entrepreneurial ecosystem

[51:57] Shifting from Web2 to Web3

• Key differences between Web2 and Web3 founders
• Assessing genuine blockchain technology applications
• Moving from hype-driven projects to meaningful blockchain applications

Leadership in Web3

Lorenzo emphasizes that transitioning from Web3 to Web3 requires a new set of leadership skills. This includes not only understanding the technological nuances but also fostering a culture of collaboration and innovation within teams. Lorenzo’s insights underscore the need for Web3 startups to be led by visionaries who can guide their teams through the fog of uncertainty while staying focused on producing real value.

Building a Sustainable Startup Ecosystem

Lorenzo also sheds light on the importance of cultivating a robust startup ecosystem, particularly in the realm of blockchain technology. He argues that successful ecosystems are built on the foundation of strong networks, community engagement, and a willingness to share knowledge and resources. Accelerators and incubators play a critical role in this process, offering not just funding but mentorship and strategic guidance.

Lorenzo points out that while timing and luck are factors in a startup’s success, being part of a supportive ecosystem can significantly enhance a startup’s chances of thriving. By learning from past successes and failures within the community, entrepreneurs can better navigate the challenges of the Web3 landscape and create lasting impact.

Welcome to the Blockchain Startup Show with

Harrison Wright, a podcast dedicated to

dauntless blockchain leaders building our

new decentralized future.

You'll hear stories, successes, trials and

tribulations as we channel into the lives

of high-performing leaders in crypto and

Web3.

Whether you're currently a Web3 founder or

leader, or you one day aspire to be, you'll

gain crucial knowledge and insights to

accelerate your learning curve, handle this

industry's greatest challenges and make the

impact you've always dreamed of.

Hello and welcome to the Blockchain Startup

Show.

I'm your host, harrison Wright.

I'm delighted to welcome today our special

guest, lorenzo DiLeo.

Lorenzo is a veteran of venture building.

He's been building startups for over 10

years now, much of that time in Web3.

And currently he serves as managing partner

at Roca and also partner at Rayo Capital,

and the theme of the show being all about

understanding the blueprint for a

successful crypto startup and what that

looks like, I'm really excited to talk to

you, lorenzo, about your learnings from

working with so many teams over the years

and the patterns you must have identified.

Thank you, I'm excited to be here.

Lorenzo de Leo: Thank you for having me, Harrison.

It's my pleasure, Absolutely.

You know there's tons of things I want to

dive into, but maybe, before we go deep,

would you mind giving us just a little part

of history how you came to be involved with

startups and then with crypto.

Lorenzo de Leo: Yeah sure.

Lorenzo de Leo: History, how you came to be involved with

Lorenzo de Leo: startups and then with crypto?

Lorenzo de Leo: Yeah sure.

Lorenzo de Leo: Let's say I took my first steps into the

Lorenzo de Leo: startup, the company building world and the

Lorenzo de Leo: tech world back in Spain.

Lorenzo de Leo: I'm from Italy, but I lived in Spain for a

Lorenzo de Leo: bunch of years and I was part of a company

Lorenzo de Leo: called Arquimia, which was an aerospace

Lorenzo de Leo: company, and I was working on technology

Lorenzo de Leo: transfer projects, meaning finding

Lorenzo de Leo: applications in the real world, let's say,

Lorenzo de Leo: in other industries, of the technologies

Lorenzo de Leo: that the company was developing as part of

Lorenzo de Leo: their R&D activities in aerospace, right?

Lorenzo de Leo: So I basically had to invent new products

Lorenzo de Leo: or figuring out new business models so that

Lorenzo de Leo: we could use those very expensive

Lorenzo de Leo: technologies in application with a more

Lorenzo de Leo: massive approach.

Lorenzo de Leo: And so that's when I kind of got into this

Lorenzo de Leo: idea of okay, well, what is the value

Lorenzo de Leo: proposition, why would people use this

Lorenzo de Leo: product versus the other product, or how

Lorenzo de Leo: can we monetize it?

Lorenzo de Leo: So that's when I started.

Lorenzo de Leo: It was about, I would say, a little bit

Lorenzo de Leo: over 15 years ago.

Lorenzo de Leo: And then, in 2013, I moved to Miami and I

Lorenzo de Leo: met my partners at Rocker.

Lorenzo de Leo: So they had just started Rocker, which is a

Lorenzo de Leo: venture builder.

Lorenzo de Leo: Aka, we work with entrepreneurs, we work

Lorenzo de Leo: with investors, we work with corporations

Lorenzo de Leo: and we help them build new ventures

Lorenzo de Leo: literally from scratch.

Lorenzo de Leo: So we validate the idea, we put together

Lorenzo de Leo: the team, we build the product, we launched

Lorenzo de Leo: it, we validated it.

Lorenzo de Leo: We built over 50 tech-based startups over

Lorenzo de Leo: the past 10 years.

Lorenzo de Leo: I've been honored to be part of that team

Lorenzo de Leo: and managing a lot of resources, strategies,

Lorenzo de Leo: but also tech people and getting into this

Lorenzo de Leo: company building.

Lorenzo de Leo: As part of Rocker.

Lorenzo de Leo: I then launched the educational vertical

Lorenzo de Leo: it's called 10xU with the idea of opening

Lorenzo de Leo: up the methodology and say, hey, instead of

Lorenzo de Leo: hiring me to build your own startup so I

Lorenzo de Leo: can teach you, and then you go out and use

Lorenzo de Leo: what I know, what I learned, the best

Lorenzo de Leo: practices, the methodologies and tools, and

Lorenzo de Leo: you apply it to your own startup.

Lorenzo de Leo: So it was kind of like a way to scale our

Lorenzo de Leo: approach, and so we did that.

Lorenzo de Leo: And then, finally, we added the

Lorenzo de Leo: accelerators, which is kind of like a

Lorenzo de Leo: hybrid if you think about it, and

Lorenzo de Leo: accelerator means I'm not going to do it

Lorenzo de Leo: for you, but I'm definitely going to work

Lorenzo de Leo: with you in a deeper way compared to just

Lorenzo de Leo: me teaching you how to do it.

Lorenzo de Leo: So I'm going to kind of like be your

Lorenzo de Leo: co-pilot for, let's say, three months and

Lorenzo de Leo: I'm going to co-build your company for a

Lorenzo de Leo: certain amount of time as your co-pilot, if

Lorenzo de Leo: you want.

Lorenzo de Leo: So that's the experience.

Lorenzo de Leo: And then, lastly, last year I started this

Lorenzo de Leo: new venture with Rio Capital, a project led

Lorenzo de Leo: by Christian Marwais, and the idea was

Lorenzo de Leo: basically to continue with that like

Lorenzo de Leo: supporting specifically in the Web3 space,

Lorenzo de Leo: initially with an accelerator and

Lorenzo de Leo: eventually with a VC fund.

Fantastic, quite a journey.

Lorenzo de Leo: Quite a journey.

Lorenzo de Leo: A lot of startups that either we build, we

Lorenzo de Leo: accelerate it or I mentor.

Lorenzo de Leo: I literally review hundreds, potentially a

Lorenzo de Leo: thousand decks every year of startups that,

Lorenzo de Leo: whatever reason because of one of the

Lorenzo de Leo: accelerators that I run or because of one

Lorenzo de Leo: of the educational programs that I run, you

Lorenzo de Leo: know they submit their text, try to get in.

Lorenzo de Leo: I do a lot of training, advising, right, so

Lorenzo de Leo: I'm constantly working with startups and I

Lorenzo de Leo: love it, right, I love it.

Lorenzo de Leo: I love the space, I love the energy,

Lorenzo de Leo: especially in Web3, right, maybe I forgot

Lorenzo de Leo: to mention that since 2021, I've

Lorenzo de Leo: specifically focused on Web3.

Lorenzo de Leo: I did a couple of accelerator programs for

Lorenzo de Leo: the Alground Foundation, I worked with the

Lorenzo de Leo: Moonbeam Foundation and now I'm doing stuff

Lorenzo de Leo: for Radio Capital.

Lorenzo de Leo: So that was when I'm involved in Web3,

Lorenzo de Leo: meaning I was already doing Web3 stuff on

Lorenzo de Leo: my own.

Lorenzo de Leo: But that's when I started to actually work

Lorenzo de Leo: with big clients, large organizations in

Lorenzo de Leo: the space, and that's an amazing journey,

Lorenzo de Leo: right, because Web3 is such a cool, growing

Lorenzo de Leo: space space.

Lorenzo de Leo: So if you add a growing technology to the

Lorenzo de Leo: creativity and the energy of startup

Lorenzo de Leo: founders, that's a great mix.

Lorenzo de Leo: So I'm super happy to be in this space.

Yeah, I know we're dividing a little off

the topic of founders now, but something I

appreciate about working in Web3 is and

I've been a recruiter for over 15 years now

a few different industries.

In other industries people are most people,

even people that are quite good at their

job.

They kind of see the job as a means to an

end.

For the most part Not everyone but

fundamentally I got a little don't announce

the right term but I got a little jaded by

recruiting after a while because I was

always very idealistic about it and what I

found was eventually I realized 90 of the

time what I was doing was finding a guy

that hated his job and putting him in

another job that he hated slightly less,

for slightly more money, and then at some

point, six to 24 months later, he'd be back

and have the same problem over again and

nothing ever changed.

But in crypto crypto it's not like that.

You do get people that hate their jobs, and

for justifiable reasons, but overwhelmingly

people are here because they want to be

here.

I think it'd be a little bit of an

exaggeration to say they'd still be here

for free.

I think sometimes that is true, but there's

an energy and an intentionality in the

space.

That's just infectious, and usually in

other industries you mostly only see that

in founders and certain employees, but here

you see it in pretty much everyone, which

is just awesome.

Lorenzo de Leo: I agree.

Lorenzo de Leo: I think that the feeling of having this

Lorenzo de Leo: mission, we still feel that this is just

Lorenzo de Leo: the beginning, we feel that we're still

Lorenzo de Leo: kind of like creating the industry, and

Lorenzo de Leo: that gives you an additional feeling of

Lorenzo de Leo: being part of it.

Lorenzo de Leo: I usually tell this story right when I was

Lorenzo de Leo: a kid I'm from a small village in Italy

Lorenzo de Leo: when the first, you know, the internet came

Lorenzo de Leo: to my village, I remember going to my

Lorenzo de Leo: neighbor's house to play with it and stuff.

Lorenzo de Leo: But I was amazed.

Lorenzo de Leo: But at the same time I was feeling like

Lorenzo de Leo: just a user, right, like hey, somebody in

Lorenzo de Leo: the US built this, this is amazing.

Lorenzo de Leo: And now finally we got to play with it.

Lorenzo de Leo: But I didn't feel like I was part of it.

Lorenzo de Leo: I was like, hey, finally I got to play with

Lorenzo de Leo: it, right as a passive user.

Lorenzo de Leo: But now in Web3, I do feel actively

Lorenzo de Leo: involved in the definition of this space

Lorenzo de Leo: and in the growth of this space, and I

Lorenzo de Leo: think that a lot of people in the space

Lorenzo de Leo: feel the same or share the same feeling.

Lorenzo de Leo: You do feel, hey, this is happening.

Lorenzo de Leo: And I'm adding my little grain of sand,

Lorenzo de Leo: let's say, and this is why the feeling of

Lorenzo de Leo: this mission surrounding us is so strong

Lorenzo de Leo: compared to other industries that are much

Lorenzo de Leo: more established that you know.

Lorenzo de Leo: There are a lot of things that have been

Lorenzo de Leo: already discovered.

Lorenzo de Leo: You're just one of many collaborating right.

Here's a question for you that this brings

to mind.

I'm really curious about your thoughts on

this.

I know what I think, but you know, in a

space where the quality of the average

person is so much higher than most

industries and the amount that they care is

higher, their expectations and standards

are higher.

The other interesting thing about working

in crypto is a lot of the people that we

work with are already financially

independent, which is very unusual in any

other space.

We take it for granted, but what do you

think the implications are of all those

things for the threshold for success to be

a founder and do that successfully?

Lorenzo de Leo: Well, that's a good point.

Lorenzo de Leo: I don't know if that's completely true, in

Lorenzo de Leo: the sense that, you know, at the end of the

Lorenzo de Leo: day, even relatively small improvement

Lorenzo de Leo: still makes a huge impact in the industry,

Lorenzo de Leo: precisely because of the fact that the

Lorenzo de Leo: industry is still growing.

Lorenzo de Leo: And so, yes, on one hand, you have very

Lorenzo de Leo: high expectations because of the quality of

Lorenzo de Leo: your peers, but, on the flip side, you know

Lorenzo de Leo: that whatever you're doing, eventually it's

Lorenzo de Leo: going to be good because it still adds

Lorenzo de Leo: value to the industry.

Lorenzo de Leo: So that's one thing.

Lorenzo de Leo: On the other hand, the other aspect that

Lorenzo de Leo: you mentioned it's true that it's an

Lorenzo de Leo: industry where you see a lot of people that

Lorenzo de Leo: don't work for money, either because of the

Lorenzo de Leo: vocation or because of the fact that they

Lorenzo de Leo: don't need money.

Lorenzo de Leo: It's true, and I I also observed that, you

Lorenzo de Leo: know, especially not only from a

Lorenzo de Leo: development perspective, like tech people,

Lorenzo de Leo: but also from a vc perspective you see a

Lorenzo de Leo: lot of new investors coming to this space.

Lorenzo de Leo: Uh, I met a few of them and I'm not judging

Lorenzo de Leo: anybody, but you see a lot of people that

Lorenzo de Leo: are wealthy maybe because they made good

Lorenzo de Leo: money with crypto, specifically with

Lorenzo de Leo: Bitcoin.

Lorenzo de Leo: In the early days, they bought Bitcoin very

Lorenzo de Leo: cheap and now they became wealthy, and so

Lorenzo de Leo: because of that it's not only that they

Lorenzo de Leo: don't need money, but they also think that

Lorenzo de Leo: just because of that, they have money, they

Lorenzo de Leo: are investors, right, and so it's a few

Lorenzo de Leo: people like getting into the space say, hey,

Lorenzo de Leo: I want to support this industry that gave

Lorenzo de Leo: me so much, and since I have money, I'm an

Lorenzo de Leo: investor.

Lorenzo de Leo: So I'm going to start to invest in startups.

Lorenzo de Leo: And that's where I'm like, well, yes, you

Lorenzo de Leo: do have money, but that doesn't make an

Lorenzo de Leo: investor necessarily.

Lorenzo de Leo: I mean, you are technically investing in

Lorenzo de Leo: startups, so, yes, you are technically an

Lorenzo de Leo: investor, but being an investor, being in

Lorenzo de Leo: venture capital means much more than having

Lorenzo de Leo: money and deploying capital in startups.

Lorenzo de Leo: And this is where I think that the fact

Lorenzo de Leo: that there is so much money in this

Lorenzo de Leo: interest system somehow creates false

Lorenzo de Leo: positives or false expectations, you know.

Lorenzo de Leo: And so sometimes we forget, like

Lorenzo de Leo: specifically in this example, that the

Lorenzo de Leo: professional aspect of being a professional

Lorenzo de Leo: investor, right.

Lorenzo de Leo: So, yeah, there is money, but it's not

Lorenzo de Leo: necessarily a super good thing all the time.

Lorenzo de Leo: Henry Suryawirawan.

Yeah, I can see that there's.

You know, I've noticed this phenomenon as

well, where naming no particular names,

raising too much money, can actually be a

bad thing Because the resources are not

used in the best way under constraints.

Yeah, 100% Like.

The fact that you have access to capital

doesn't mean that you need to, because the

resources are not used in the best way

under constraints.

Lorenzo de Leo: Yeah, 100%.

Lorenzo de Leo: The fact that you have access to capital

Lorenzo de Leo: doesn't mean that you need to raise all of

Lorenzo de Leo: that or use all of that.

Lorenzo de Leo: Or the fact that you don't need money, for

Lorenzo de Leo: example, doesn't necessarily mean that you

Lorenzo de Leo: can just keep building, which is a third

Lorenzo de Leo: scenario, I would say.

Lorenzo de Leo: So you have the scenario of the investors

Lorenzo de Leo: with a lot of money that is not an investor.

Lorenzo de Leo: You had the startup that has access to too

Lorenzo de Leo: much capital, and then you had the first

Lorenzo de Leo: scenario of somebody that is naturally

Lorenzo de Leo: wealthy and they don't need to raise money

Lorenzo de Leo: and because of that, they just focus on

Lorenzo de Leo: building, and sometimes, because of that,

Lorenzo de Leo: they get disconnected.

Lorenzo de Leo: They build something that doesn't make any

Lorenzo de Leo: sense because they never had a chance to

Lorenzo de Leo: talk to an investor that might raise some

Lorenzo de Leo: red flags, or because they just keep

Lorenzo de Leo: building without even asking the market.

Lorenzo de Leo: Right, like, the fact that you can't afford

Lorenzo de Leo: to build doesn't mean that you have to

Lorenzo de Leo: build, right?

Lorenzo de Leo: It's actually a good practice to stop, take

Lorenzo de Leo: a step back and validate with somebody,

Lorenzo de Leo: with investors or with the market.

Lorenzo de Leo: It's much more important, right?

Lorenzo de Leo: So sometimes, when you don't have money,

Lorenzo de Leo: you're forced to do that, and it's actually

Lorenzo de Leo: healthy, right, because it forces you to

Lorenzo de Leo: look at your business from a different

Lorenzo de Leo: perspective.

Lorenzo de Leo: When you have too much money, sometimes you

Lorenzo de Leo: just forget to do that right and you just

Lorenzo de Leo: keep building.

Lorenzo de Leo: But again, maybe that's not the right move.

Lorenzo de Leo: Right, keep building.

But again, maybe that's not the right move.

Right, yeah, 100%.

How many?

I know this is going to be an impossible

question to answer, but if you had to guess

how many startups in Web3 would you say

you've worked with now?

Lorenzo de Leo: I mean roughly, it depends, right.

Lorenzo de Leo: So from an accelerator perspective, I

Lorenzo de Leo: accelerated over 50 or 60, I think at this

Lorenzo de Leo: point specifically focused on Web3, right,

Lorenzo de Leo: we're just talking about Web3.

Lorenzo de Leo: From an advisor perspective, like much more

Lorenzo de Leo: than that, because sometimes, for example,

Lorenzo de Leo: I collaborate with conferences.

Lorenzo de Leo: You know, when you have a difficult startup

Lorenzo de Leo: competition at a conference and then you

Lorenzo de Leo: know they do this recruitment process, they

Lorenzo de Leo: select companies, they go to the conference,

Lorenzo de Leo: they pitch in front of investors sometimes,

Lorenzo de Leo: but then nothing happens.

Lorenzo de Leo: Well, that is because the startups are not

Lorenzo de Leo: bad but are not prepared to pitch in front

Lorenzo de Leo: of investors.

Lorenzo de Leo: So, you know, last year I got to

Lorenzo de Leo: collaborate with a few conferences to train

Lorenzo de Leo: the teams that got selected.

Lorenzo de Leo: So what I'm trying to say is that in that

Lorenzo de Leo: case it's not as deep of an engagement as

Lorenzo de Leo: when I work with companies that we

Lorenzo de Leo: accelerate, because that again means

Lorenzo de Leo: sitting down with them pretty much on a

Lorenzo de Leo: daily basis for three months, but that also

Lorenzo de Leo: gives me a chance to work with many more

Lorenzo de Leo: companies.

Lorenzo de Leo: So we're talking about probably, like we

Lorenzo de Leo: are in, the hundreds of different types of

Lorenzo de Leo: engagements right, I don't have a, but I

Lorenzo de Leo: would say you know, we're talking about a

Lorenzo de Leo: few hundreds companies that I work with in

Lorenzo de Leo: Web3, again in different scenarios.

What are the patterns that you've seen?

Is it possible for you to lay out I'm not

sure if blueprint is the right word, but is

there a matrix of traits and situations?

You say, yeah, these people are likely to

be successful, these people are likely to

stumble at this hurdle.

What are the patterns that you've seen?

Lorenzo de Leo: Well, there are definitely some traits.

Lorenzo de Leo: Right, it's clearly a million dollar

Lorenzo de Leo: question.

Lorenzo de Leo: Right, there is no formula.

Lorenzo de Leo: Otherwise we will all be rich and there

Lorenzo de Leo: will be no meaning in venture capital.

Lorenzo de Leo: But you do notice some patterns, as you

Lorenzo de Leo: said, right.

Lorenzo de Leo: So it might be not what people tend to

Lorenzo de Leo: think.

Lorenzo de Leo: So, for example, one thing that is it's not

Lorenzo de Leo: like the typical.

Lorenzo de Leo: You know, the typical thing that people say

Lorenzo de Leo: is you might believe that the, you know,

Lorenzo de Leo: working with the best founder is always a

Lorenzo de Leo: thing.

Lorenzo de Leo: A lot of people, a lot of VCs, say we're

Lorenzo de Leo: founder-focused, we select the best

Lorenzo de Leo: founders.

Lorenzo de Leo: In many cases, you take it to an extreme in

Lorenzo de Leo: which you don't even care about the idea as

Lorenzo de Leo: long as the founder is good.

Lorenzo de Leo: Right, because people are betting on people,

Lorenzo de Leo: not on ideas.

Lorenzo de Leo: And I like all of that and it's true.

Lorenzo de Leo: I think that if I had to pick between the

Lorenzo de Leo: quality of a founder versus the quality of

Lorenzo de Leo: the idea, I would rather pick the founder,

Lorenzo de Leo: because ideas, you know, they come and go,

Lorenzo de Leo: they evolve, a lot of things can change.

Lorenzo de Leo: So, as long as the founder is good, you

Lorenzo de Leo: know, you can always come up with something

Lorenzo de Leo: that makes sense.

Lorenzo de Leo: That is true, although, especially in Web3,

Lorenzo de Leo: I saw that sometimes working with the best

Lorenzo de Leo: founders is not necessarily ideal.

Lorenzo de Leo: Like, if the founder is too good, that

Lorenzo de Leo: might not mean that it's going to be

Lorenzo de Leo: successful.

Lorenzo de Leo: And this is because the cost of opportunity

Lorenzo de Leo: when you build a startup is very high.

Lorenzo de Leo: Like, building a startup is hard.

Lorenzo de Leo: It's, you know, time intensive, it's

Lorenzo de Leo: capital intensive.

Lorenzo de Leo: Aka, you're going to work a lot of time,

Lorenzo de Leo: like, you want to spend a lot of time

Lorenzo de Leo: building, and you're not going to make a

Lorenzo de Leo: lot of money unless the startup is

Lorenzo de Leo: successful, which is something that're not

Lorenzo de Leo: going to make a lot of money unless the

Lorenzo de Leo: startup is successful, which is something

Lorenzo de Leo: that is not going to happen, you know,

Lorenzo de Leo: before the fifth, sixth, seventh, tenth

Lorenzo de Leo: year, right of execution.

Lorenzo de Leo: So you have a high probability of working

Lorenzo de Leo: super hard for many years and eventually

Lorenzo de Leo: you're not going to make any money, right?

Lorenzo de Leo: That's the typical scenario, unfortunately.

Lorenzo de Leo: So if you're really good, if you're really

Lorenzo de Leo: brilliant, if you have the best network, if

Lorenzo de Leo: you have the best idea, why would you do

Lorenzo de Leo: that when you can work pretty much anywhere

Lorenzo de Leo: in the world and make a lot of money with

Lorenzo de Leo: much lower risk, right?

Lorenzo de Leo: So what happens is that when a founder is

Lorenzo de Leo: very, very good and not completely

Lorenzo de Leo: dedicated to the startup, the cost of

Lorenzo de Leo: opportunity is a distraction.

Lorenzo de Leo: You know when.

Lorenzo de Leo: Things you know because in the beginning

Lorenzo de Leo: it's all like, oh, I'm going to do it.

Lorenzo de Leo: Oh, you know, this is going to be the

Lorenzo de Leo: biggest thing.

Lorenzo de Leo: In the beginning it's all like, oh, I'm

Lorenzo de Leo: gonna do it, oh, you know, this is gonna be

Lorenzo de Leo: the biggest thing in the world.

Lorenzo de Leo: But then after a while, when shit hits the

Lorenzo de Leo: fan and you are like depressed and you know,

Lorenzo de Leo: and it's hard, and you are having a hard

Lorenzo de Leo: time raising money and all of that you know,

Lorenzo de Leo: then the customer opportunity is gonna

Lorenzo de Leo: knock on your door and say, hey, are you

Lorenzo de Leo: sure you want to be miserable when you

Lorenzo de Leo: could be successful doing something else?

Lorenzo de Leo: And if you're a really good founder, most

Lorenzo de Leo: likely you have options.

Lorenzo de Leo: And so, because of that, what I'm trying to

Lorenzo de Leo: say here is that you want the right balance

Lorenzo de Leo: between being an amazing founder, but also

Lorenzo de Leo: being committed and still being hungry and

Lorenzo de Leo: still being humble.

Lorenzo de Leo: Amazing founder, but also like being

Lorenzo de Leo: committed and still being hungry, you know,

Lorenzo de Leo: and still being humble and saying, okay, I

Lorenzo de Leo: want to do this, but I'm not still like

Lorenzo de Leo: good enough, I need to keep learning.

Lorenzo de Leo: I need to keep experiencing.

Lorenzo de Leo: Right, if you're too good, at some point

Lorenzo de Leo: you might realize this is not worth it.

Lorenzo de Leo: Right, and again, specifically in Web3, I

Lorenzo de Leo: did see a few funders that when things got

Lorenzo de Leo: hard in Web3, aka crypto winter and all of

Lorenzo de Leo: that right they were like, hey, I could

Lorenzo de Leo: just shut down my Web3 company even people

Lorenzo de Leo: that raise money, right.

Lorenzo de Leo: So they started studying Web3, they raised

Lorenzo de Leo: venture capital money and then things

Lorenzo de Leo: started to be hard because of market

Lorenzo de Leo: conditions, because of whatever, and so

Lorenzo de Leo: they were like why should I do this when I

Lorenzo de Leo: could just reinvent myself, shut down this

Lorenzo de Leo: company, say bye to my investors and just

Lorenzo de Leo: raise money in AI, which is now the new big

Lorenzo de Leo: thing?

Lorenzo de Leo: There's a lot of money.

Lorenzo de Leo: You know, everybody's talking about it,

Lorenzo de Leo: right, and I'm not judging anybody because

Lorenzo de Leo: you know, I think it makes sense.

Lorenzo de Leo: What I'm trying to say is that I was

Lorenzo de Leo: personally surprised.

Lorenzo de Leo: I was like, hey, this, this founder, is

Lorenzo de Leo: actually super good.

Lorenzo de Leo: What happened?

Lorenzo de Leo: And he's like cost of opportunity.

Lorenzo de Leo: He was too good for this, he was too good

Lorenzo de Leo: to go through all of the pain, right, and

Lorenzo de Leo: there was an easier path, and so why not?

Lorenzo de Leo: Right?

Lorenzo de Leo: So sorry for taking so long.

Lorenzo de Leo: Maybe I'm going to rumble.

Lorenzo de Leo: I'm just saying there are some.

Lorenzo de Leo: Going back to your question, right, there

Lorenzo de Leo: are some patterns, right, and one of them

Lorenzo de Leo: is the quality of the founder.

Lorenzo de Leo: And yet careful with that, because if the

Lorenzo de Leo: founder is too good, you know it might not

Lorenzo de Leo: be actually a really good thing.

Lorenzo de Leo: So, you know, look at founders that are

Lorenzo de Leo: highly motivated, that are good enough, but

Lorenzo de Leo: not maybe like exagger's, exaggeratively

Lorenzo de Leo: good, so that they stay humble.

Lorenzo de Leo: You know, they keep learning, they keep

Lorenzo de Leo: pushing.

Lorenzo de Leo: That's definitely, you know, one thing.

Lorenzo de Leo: And the other thing is this mindset of, as

Lorenzo de Leo: I said before, of validating and

Lorenzo de Leo: questioning your own ideas all the time.

Lorenzo de Leo: You know, when you see people that are like,

Lorenzo de Leo: hey, I had this idea, I thought it was

Lorenzo de Leo: great, but don't just trust what I'm saying,

Lorenzo de Leo: look at the data, you know, boom.

Lorenzo de Leo: That completely changes the conversation.

Lorenzo de Leo: Even if we're talking about super early

Lorenzo de Leo: validation, you know, maybe they still

Lorenzo de Leo: don't have a prototype, but they were able

Lorenzo de Leo: to validate.

Lorenzo de Leo: You know the problem is real.

Lorenzo de Leo: Hey, there is a decent number of people in

Lorenzo de Leo: the market that is affected by this problem

Lorenzo de Leo: and I have the data.

Lorenzo de Leo: Just by doing that, it shows the mentality

Lorenzo de Leo: hey, these people like this guy, this

Lorenzo de Leo: founder.

Lorenzo de Leo: You know, he, he got it.

Lorenzo de Leo: It's not about his idea.

Lorenzo de Leo: It's about data, it's about validating,

Lorenzo de Leo: it's about you know showing.

Lorenzo de Leo: You know data, and so that is also

Lorenzo de Leo: something that you can learn.

Lorenzo de Leo: But it's in many cases it's hard to teach

Lorenzo de Leo: people to use data because of their own ego,

Lorenzo de Leo: and so when you see that that's definitely

Lorenzo de Leo: another tree that I would say hey, you know

Lorenzo de Leo: this founder.

Lorenzo de Leo: I don't know if it's going to be super

Lorenzo de Leo: successful, but he has more chances than

Lorenzo de Leo: other founders that are just trying to sell

Lorenzo de Leo: you their million dollar idea, right?

Lorenzo de Leo: I appreciate the passion.

Lorenzo de Leo: I appreciate when funders are super

Lorenzo de Leo: committed.

Lorenzo de Leo: I appreciate it when they come and say I'm

Lorenzo de Leo: not going to take a no as an answer.

Lorenzo de Leo: You know all of that.

Lorenzo de Leo: I love it.

Lorenzo de Leo: I want to see the passion in funders, as

Lorenzo de Leo: long as it doesn't go beyond being real and

Lorenzo de Leo: realistic, right.

Lorenzo de Leo: An excess of passion makes you blind.

Lorenzo de Leo: You also need to keep your eye open.

Lorenzo de Leo: Look at data, look at validation, listen to

Lorenzo de Leo: what other people are saying, especially

Lorenzo de Leo: experts, especially investors.

Lorenzo de Leo: You don't have to do everything, right.

Lorenzo de Leo: You don't need to listen to your advisors

Lorenzo de Leo: blindly, but you need to keep your eyes

Lorenzo de Leo: open and your mind open, right?

Lorenzo de Leo: So when there's too much passion, sometimes

Lorenzo de Leo: that's not good.

Lorenzo de Leo: Again, I think I'm breaking a couple of the

Lorenzo de Leo: typical things that you hear out there

Lorenzo de Leo: right like you want a brilliant

Lorenzo de Leo: entrepreneur and you want a passionate

Lorenzo de Leo: entrepreneur.

Lorenzo de Leo: Yes and no, that's my answer.

Henry Suryawirawan, that's a really

interesting point.

If I'm hearing you right, it seems to me

that there's a relationship here between

ego and founder success.

That's actually a tricky balance, because

they have to have a big enough ego to

believe that you know to be able to will

this thing into reality and do what that

takes, but not so much of an ego that they

ignore reality, which can be very dangerous.

Lorenzo de Leo: Exactly, and this is why it's so hard to

Lorenzo de Leo: find good entrepreneurs and it's so hard to

Lorenzo de Leo: be the startup because you need to find

Lorenzo de Leo: that balance and it's more of an art right

Lorenzo de Leo: and a science.

Lorenzo de Leo: But it's exactly that.

Lorenzo de Leo: You need both.

Lorenzo de Leo: Everybody's going to tell you you, you're

Lorenzo de Leo: crazy, this is impossible, you can't do it

Lorenzo de Leo: right, and so of course, you can just

Lorenzo de Leo: listen to those people, otherwise there

Lorenzo de Leo: wouldn't be any innovation in the world.

Lorenzo de Leo: Of course you need to push it and show them

Lorenzo de Leo: that they're wrong.

Lorenzo de Leo: Yet you can't just say again like I'm going

Lorenzo de Leo: to take a no as an answer and just keep

Lorenzo de Leo: doing the same.

Lorenzo de Leo: Okay, don't take a no as an answer, but try

Lorenzo de Leo: to understand why they say no and at least

Lorenzo de Leo: evaluate hey, is that something I should

Lorenzo de Leo: take into account, or they're full of crap?

Lorenzo de Leo: But at least question yourself, right.

Lorenzo de Leo: So that's kind of like the balance I would

Lorenzo de Leo: say.

You know, I'm really curious what you think

about this from a founder's perspective.

A trend that I've noticed in people's

career progression and this isn't

specifically about founders, but I think it

also applies to founders is that transition

from being an ic, an individual contributor,

to being a leader.

And sometimes the things that make someone

really successful as an ic actually hinder

them when it comes to leadership.

But if you look at the profile of the

typical person who excels on their own, you

know whether they're a developer, business

developer, it doesn't matter.

It's usually some combination of work ethic,

self-responsibility.

You know they'll do more to make sure it

gets done.

They'll beat themselves up.

If someone else causes a problem, they'll

take responsibility for it and fix it

themselves.

They take everything on their shoulders and

they power through.

It's not the only model of success as an

individual, but I'd say it's a powerful

trend.

That person gets turned into a manager for

the first time, usually because they're

really good on their own.

So they say, hey, we'll promote this guy to

run the team.

Doesn't always work very well because if

you imagine you have a team of five people

and your response to anything being hard is

to lock yourself in your office and work

double the hours, all you're going to do is

alienate the team and you're never going to

be able to outwork the team, because you

can't do five people's work by yourself, I

think.

Do you see that same thing in founders

where, from my observation, a lot of

founders especially in Web3, they haven't

run a business before, they haven't run a

team before.

Sometimes they're brilliant people for one

reason or another, but the actual business

of being a leader and a founder is new to

them.

Do you see a trend where founders can do

that?

They shut themselves, they lock themselves

in their little box.

Hey, no, I'm doing my thing, but really

what they need to be doing is one know one

analogy I heard one time, and I can't

remember from where is it the entrepreneur

should be the chef.

Their job is to understand what is the

recipe we're building, what ingredients

does it require and what combination.

And their role is actually to create that,

to create that system, to allow that thing

to take shape, which can be very, very

different from trying to do the thing

themselves.

Lorenzo de Leo: I agree 100%, and I actually love the

Lorenzo de Leo: analogy with the chef, because I think I'm

Lorenzo de Leo: going to use it.

Lorenzo de Leo: I'm going to steal it from you, because the

Lorenzo de Leo: fact that you are really good at cooking

Lorenzo de Leo: doesn't mean that you're a good chef or

Lorenzo de Leo: that you can run a restaurant.

Lorenzo de Leo: Right, you can cook for your family or

Lorenzo de Leo: three people, but that doesn't mean that

Lorenzo de Leo: you can feed 2,000 people on a daily basis,

Lorenzo de Leo: right?

Lorenzo de Leo: So I definitely see that.

Lorenzo de Leo: Think about getting started when you had to

Lorenzo de Leo: be very creative.

Lorenzo de Leo: You don't have the resources to get support,

Lorenzo de Leo: right, you have to do it all by yourself.

Lorenzo de Leo: Have to do it all by yourself.

Lorenzo de Leo: So imagine that scenario compared to

Lorenzo de Leo: running a company post IPO with 5,000

Lorenzo de Leo: employees.

Lorenzo de Leo: Right?

Lorenzo de Leo: Two completely different scenarios.

Lorenzo de Leo: Not only the skills that are required to

Lorenzo de Leo: run those two jobs are different, but also

Lorenzo de Leo: the personality.

Lorenzo de Leo: There are people that might not even like

Lorenzo de Leo: it.

Lorenzo de Leo: You know meaning if you are really good at

Lorenzo de Leo: creating things from scratch and then you

Lorenzo de Leo: had to babysit 5,000 employees, you might

Lorenzo de Leo: not like it.

Lorenzo de Leo: It's not only that you're not good at it,

Lorenzo de Leo: that you don't have the experience, but

Lorenzo de Leo: that might not be what you sign up for, and

Lorenzo de Leo: so that is one of the major problems with

Lorenzo de Leo: startups and I'm exaggerating now, but you

Lorenzo de Leo: can see the same evolution from a solo

Lorenzo de Leo: funder group of three co-founders and then

Lorenzo de Leo: the first employees, and then 20 employees,

Lorenzo de Leo: and then 10, then 100, right?

Lorenzo de Leo: Meaning you're also like bringing

Lorenzo de Leo: additional responsibility and you're

Lorenzo de Leo: bringing additional people that at some

Lorenzo de Leo: point are going to ask you questions or

Lorenzo de Leo: even like try to tell you what to do, right.

Lorenzo de Leo: So the dynamics of a startup constantly

Lorenzo de Leo: evolve and founders might not be good at

Lorenzo de Leo: covering all of those roles throughout the

Lorenzo de Leo: evolution of the startup, either because of

Lorenzo de Leo: lack of skills, lack of ability to evolve

Lorenzo de Leo: and or personality.

Lorenzo de Leo: Right.

Lorenzo de Leo: And me personally, for example, I don't

Lorenzo de Leo: think I will be really good at running a

Lorenzo de Leo: company with 5,000 employees.

Lorenzo de Leo: I don't think it goes well with that I like

Lorenzo de Leo: to create, I like to have like a more

Lorenzo de Leo: direct connection.

Lorenzo de Leo: I think I good, I'm good at delegating, as

Lorenzo de Leo: long as I maintain a direct connection with

Lorenzo de Leo: the people I work with.

Lorenzo de Leo: You know, when I start to have like

Lorenzo de Leo: multiple layers of like uh, the boss of the

Lorenzo de Leo: boss, of the boss, the boss, and then they

Lorenzo de Leo: report to me, like you know, I don't think

Lorenzo de Leo: I I will be good at that and it's perfectly

Lorenzo de Leo: fine.

Lorenzo de Leo: You know, I don't think I would be good at

Lorenzo de Leo: that, and it's perfectly fine, you know.

Lorenzo de Leo: But just to say this is why it's so hard.

Lorenzo de Leo: A lot of people let's use Mark Zuckerberg

Lorenzo de Leo: as an example right, he started Facebook in

Lorenzo de Leo: college and now he runs Meta, which is like

Lorenzo de Leo: a multi-billion company blah, blah, blah.

Lorenzo de Leo: There are not so many Mark Zuckerbergs in

Lorenzo de Leo: the world.

Lorenzo de Leo: Blah, blah, blah.

Lorenzo de Leo: There are not so many Marzocommerce in the

Lorenzo de Leo: world.

Lorenzo de Leo: Like, at some point, you know, like the,

Lorenzo de Leo: the, the, your job is going to be so

Lorenzo de Leo: different that you might not be the right

Lorenzo de Leo: person to run the company or you might not

Lorenzo de Leo: even like it right?

Lorenzo de Leo: So that's a real.

Lorenzo de Leo: A lot of people struggle to scale because

Lorenzo de Leo: of they, they, they don't have the ability

Lorenzo de Leo: to evolve and to change the structure of

Lorenzo de Leo: the organization.

Lorenzo de Leo: So put somebody in place at the right time

Lorenzo de Leo: at the right place.

You know something.

I see a trend I see repeat itself over and

over again in crypto teams the number of

teams that really need a COO but don't know

it.

There's no operator to tie everything

together.

You've got a bunch of specialists but no

one who really understands the systems of

the business at a core level.

I always find it a really interesting data

point if a founder has a self-awareness to

either hire a COO or sometimes hire a CEO

once they get to a certain point, because

that's not their forte anymore.

Exactly.

Lorenzo de Leo: I totally agree.

Lorenzo de Leo: I think it's because they're so busy they

Lorenzo de Leo: never realize what they need, they just

Lorenzo de Leo: keep doing it or just because they don't

Lorenzo de Leo: have that experience.

Lorenzo de Leo: They don't even know what a CEO is or does,

Lorenzo de Leo: and so they might not even know that there

Lorenzo de Leo: is a solution to their problem and they

Lorenzo de Leo: think that they had to solve their own

Lorenzo de Leo: problem, like they've been doing since the

Lorenzo de Leo: inception of the company.

Lorenzo de Leo: And no, maybe now there is a solution.

Lorenzo de Leo: I think that that's actually when an

Lorenzo de Leo: advisor might make a lot of sense for your

Lorenzo de Leo: startup.

Lorenzo de Leo: You know, I'm an advisor myself and I work

Lorenzo de Leo: with a lot of advisors in different stages.

Lorenzo de Leo: I'm more focused on idea stage, early stage,

Lorenzo de Leo: like how to go from zero to one.

Lorenzo de Leo: Let's say that's kind of like my niche, but

Lorenzo de Leo: there is definitely a lot of value in

Lorenzo de Leo: having advisors when you're early stage.

Lorenzo de Leo: But I actually think that having an advisor

Lorenzo de Leo: when you're starting to scale makes a lot

Lorenzo de Leo: of sense, especially if it's an advisor

Lorenzo de Leo: that has experience with larger

Lorenzo de Leo: organizations, because they could tell you

Lorenzo de Leo: hey, you know, you might need a COO or you

Lorenzo de Leo: might need I don't know a chief of staff or

Lorenzo de Leo: you might need to step down.

Lorenzo de Leo: If you want to keep creating new products,

Lorenzo de Leo: maybe you need to focus on that and hire

Lorenzo de Leo: somebody to run operations for you, right?

Lorenzo de Leo: So it's good to maybe bring somebody with

Lorenzo de Leo: that experience, because you might not have

Lorenzo de Leo: that experience or you might not even

Lorenzo de Leo: understand what you need, right.

I learned something that has really stuck

with me.

I think it was from Dan Sullivan.

It's a really simple phrase.

Obviously there's more than a phrase behind

it.

There's an entire literature behind this,

but it's simply who, not how.

Whenever you have a problem, the right

question to ask is not how do I solve it,

it's who can solve it?

And I, you know, even in my small, uh

business of my own my own I frequently am

now asking that question.

I might not be hiring a full-time person,

but I'm like who could I consult to help me

with this problem, versus trying to figure

it all out by myself?

It's a much higher leverage way to operate,

I think.

Lorenzo de Leo: I agree, but to be fair, right, because

Lorenzo de Leo: maybe some founders here that are listening

Lorenzo de Leo: are like yeah, sounds easy when you're,

Lorenzo de Leo: let's say, not a large organization, but we

Lorenzo de Leo: are bigger.

Lorenzo de Leo: But when you're getting started A you might

Lorenzo de Leo: not have those connections.

Lorenzo de Leo: B you might not have the budget to hire

Lorenzo de Leo: somebody.

Lorenzo de Leo: Or.

Lorenzo de Leo: C maybe you have the connections but people

Lorenzo de Leo: don't want to work with you because you

Lorenzo de Leo: still don't have anything to offer in

Lorenzo de Leo: exchange for it.

Lorenzo de Leo: So what I'm trying to say is that I think

Lorenzo de Leo: that the reality of starting a startup from

Lorenzo de Leo: scratch in many cases creates that mindset,

Lorenzo de Leo: forces you to rely on yourself only, and

Lorenzo de Leo: creates this mindset of saying, if there is

Lorenzo de Leo: a problem, you are the one who needs to

Lorenzo de Leo: solve it, and it's hard to make that switch

Lorenzo de Leo: when you get to a point in which your

Lorenzo de Leo: startup actually allows you to rely on

Lorenzo de Leo: external.

Lorenzo de Leo: So what I'm trying to say is that I want to

Lorenzo de Leo: be fair because you know, because in many

Lorenzo de Leo: cases, funders are, you know, taken to that

Lorenzo de Leo: situation.

Lorenzo de Leo: You know, maybe they would appreciate some

Lorenzo de Leo: help early on, but they really don't have

Lorenzo de Leo: access to it and that's why they shut down.

Lorenzo de Leo: Right?

Lorenzo de Leo: Yeah, startups evolve and founders need to

Lorenzo de Leo: evolve as well.

Lorenzo de Leo: Going back to your original question.

Lorenzo de Leo: You know, what are the things that you want

Lorenzo de Leo: to see in a startup.

Lorenzo de Leo: What are the things that might make you

Lorenzo de Leo: think that they're going to be successful?

Lorenzo de Leo: Well, the ability of the founder to keep

Lorenzo de Leo: learning and to evolve at the pace the

Lorenzo de Leo: startup needs.

Lorenzo de Leo: That's really hard.

Henry Suryawirawan.

Yeah, it is.

Well, let me ask you this, if you had to

think of a matrix so on one hand we've got

unsuccessful founders, we've got founders

that kind of get by the average founder,

let's say.

And then the founders that really nail it,

what would you say are the key differences

between those groups, whether that's

inbuilt traits about the person or things

that they do and learn and how they

approach things?

Lorenzo de Leo: well.

Lorenzo de Leo: So we already covered a couple of things.

Lorenzo de Leo: Right, a ability to evolve, uh, be this

Lorenzo de Leo: balance between believing in yourself

Lorenzo de Leo: without being stubborn, without letting

Lorenzo de Leo: your ego taking over, right?

Lorenzo de Leo: So those are true kind of like mindset type

Lorenzo de Leo: of features, if you want, or skills.

Lorenzo de Leo: I would say there is at least two more that

Lorenzo de Leo: I can think of.

Lorenzo de Leo: One is you know, in order to run a

Lorenzo de Leo: successful startup, to be a successful

Lorenzo de Leo: startup, you're going to need a lot of

Lorenzo de Leo: different things, and you might not have

Lorenzo de Leo: all of them, which is perfectly fine.

Lorenzo de Leo: So you can, a learn what you don't know or,

Lorenzo de Leo: b get some support, maybe co-founders.

Lorenzo de Leo: The earlier you realize what you need and

Lorenzo de Leo: what you don't have, the better.

Lorenzo de Leo: A lot of people you know eventually figure

Lorenzo de Leo: it out when it's too late.

Lorenzo de Leo: Oh, for example, I need to raise money, let

Lorenzo de Leo: me see how I can do it, and it turns out

Lorenzo de Leo: it's too late because it turns out that you

Lorenzo de Leo: made mistakes.

Lorenzo de Leo: An investor are not going to invest because

Lorenzo de Leo: you already, you know, burn all of the

Lorenzo de Leo: money in something that you didn't need,

Lorenzo de Leo: for example.

Lorenzo de Leo: So an investor that comes in now is like

Lorenzo de Leo: hey, you didn't manage your company

Lorenzo de Leo: properly, you burned all of the money in

Lorenzo de Leo: stupid things.

Lorenzo de Leo: Why should I give you more money so you can

Lorenzo de Leo: go out and burn more?

Lorenzo de Leo: So you know, at some point you're going to

Lorenzo de Leo: learn, but for certain things it might be

Lorenzo de Leo: too late.

Lorenzo de Leo: So the more you can learn before it's too

Lorenzo de Leo: late, the higher your chances of making it.

Lorenzo de Leo: And so once you understand what you need

Lorenzo de Leo: and then you understand what you don't have,

Lorenzo de Leo: that's when you can say, okay, I can learn

Lorenzo de Leo: this, or I need help for that.

Lorenzo de Leo: What type of help?

Lorenzo de Leo: A co-founder or an employee or an advisor,

Lorenzo de Leo: whatever it is?

Lorenzo de Leo: The earlier you have this map out, the less

Lorenzo de Leo: risk let's say.

Lorenzo de Leo: So what I'm trying to say is that, of

Lorenzo de Leo: course, if you have experience, it's easier,

Lorenzo de Leo: but if you don't have experience, you don't

Lorenzo de Leo: need to build that experience by making

Lorenzo de Leo: mistakes.

Lorenzo de Leo: You can educate yourself and you can get

Lorenzo de Leo: ready right.

Lorenzo de Leo: And so successful founders are the ones who

Lorenzo de Leo: see the risk before it's too late, so they

Lorenzo de Leo: can get prepared.

Lorenzo de Leo: Oh, I'm going to need money in six months.

Lorenzo de Leo: Okay, when the time comes, what do I need

Lorenzo de Leo: to show investors to increase my chances of

Lorenzo de Leo: raising money?

Lorenzo de Leo: Oh, they're going to ask me for ABC.

Lorenzo de Leo: Okay, I'm going to build those assets so

Lorenzo de Leo: that in six months, when I do need the

Lorenzo de Leo: money, I have that.

Lorenzo de Leo: That's just an example of saying you don't

Lorenzo de Leo: need to make the mistake to learn how it

Lorenzo de Leo: works.

Lorenzo de Leo: So successful founders had that ability.

Lorenzo de Leo: They build a network before they need it.

Lorenzo de Leo: They build a network before they need it.

Lorenzo de Leo: They build a community before they need it.

Lorenzo de Leo: Typical entrepreneur I build a product and

Lorenzo de Leo: then I go out and I look for a community of

Lorenzo de Leo: users or clients.

Lorenzo de Leo: If you are not able to build that community,

Lorenzo de Leo: you're dead.

Lorenzo de Leo: Because you build a product.

Lorenzo de Leo: You probably spend a lot of time and money

Lorenzo de Leo: building a product and then you realize

Lorenzo de Leo: that you don't know how to sell it, either

Lorenzo de Leo: because you're not good at it or because

Lorenzo de Leo: nobody wants it.

Lorenzo de Leo: Vice versa, there are entrepreneurs that go

Lorenzo de Leo: out.

Lorenzo de Leo: They build a community first, which in turn

Lorenzo de Leo: gives them a lot of data, because now you

Lorenzo de Leo: know what these people want, you know if

Lorenzo de Leo: they're willing to pay data because now you

Lorenzo de Leo: know what these people want, you know if

Lorenzo de Leo: they're willing to pay or not, you know

Lorenzo de Leo: where the pain points are and once you have

Lorenzo de Leo: the community, you build the product and

Lorenzo de Leo: guess what?

Lorenzo de Leo: At that point it's going to be much easier

Lorenzo de Leo: to sell the product.

Lorenzo de Leo: So what I'm trying to say is that it feels

Lorenzo de Leo: it's not very intuitive, but those who are

Lorenzo de Leo: able to build assets before they need them

Lorenzo de Leo: are going to succeed.

Lorenzo de Leo: How do you do it?

Lorenzo de Leo: By learning, by asking other people, by

Lorenzo de Leo: reading, by going through accelerators.

Lorenzo de Leo: I list things I would like to see in a

Lorenzo de Leo: startup or in a founder is the ability to

Lorenzo de Leo: understand what you know and what you don't

Lorenzo de Leo: know, and get ready for it.

Lorenzo de Leo: And you're going to make mistakes, yes, but

Lorenzo de Leo: there are a lot of mistakes that you can

Lorenzo de Leo: avoid, and I don't like this when I see

Lorenzo de Leo: founders that are like I'm just going to do

Lorenzo de Leo: it and see what happens.

Lorenzo de Leo: It might be very painful and, in many cases,

Lorenzo de Leo: you might make mistakes that you're not

Lorenzo de Leo: going to be able to fix.

Lorenzo de Leo: And that's when, yes, making mistakes is

Lorenzo de Leo: natural.

Lorenzo de Leo: Making mistakes is good because you learn,

Lorenzo de Leo: but try to avoid making mistakes as much as

Lorenzo de Leo: you can.

Lorenzo de Leo: Right, I know it sounds silly, but I think

Lorenzo de Leo: we still need to hear that.

So that will be my third one, Henry

Suryawirawan.

Have you heard that?

Sorry to interrupt you, Lorenzo Lorenzo

Lopera.

No problem, Henry Suryawirawan, have you

heard that old saying a smart man learns

from his mistakes, but a wise man learns

from the mistakes of others.

Lorenzo de Leo: Exactly, Reminds me of that.

Lorenzo de Leo: Exactly, that's exactly the thing.

Lorenzo de Leo: And again, like being an entrepreneur,

Lorenzo de Leo: being an innovator, being a disruptor, you

Lorenzo de Leo: know, yeah, of course you're trying to do

Lorenzo de Leo: something that has never been possible

Lorenzo de Leo: before.

Lorenzo de Leo: Yet there are a lot of entrepreneurs out

Lorenzo de Leo: there, very successful people that you can

Lorenzo de Leo: learn from right.

Lorenzo de Leo: Yes, you're a disruptor, but you're not

Lorenzo de Leo: inventing venture capital, you know, like

Lorenzo de Leo: you don't need to reinvent the wheel from

Lorenzo de Leo: scratch.

Lorenzo de Leo: So, yeah, you know, pick your battles, I

Lorenzo de Leo: would say, and don't be too proud.

Lorenzo de Leo: And you know, get help if you can.

Lorenzo de Leo: So again, going back to your question,

Lorenzo de Leo: there are founders that have that mindset

Lorenzo de Leo: and they show it very early on, even like

Lorenzo de Leo: companies that we select for our

Lorenzo de Leo: accelerators.

Lorenzo de Leo: The accelerator, for me, is a great

Lorenzo de Leo: opportunity to observe founders very

Lorenzo de Leo: closely, especially, for example, if you're

Lorenzo de Leo: an investor, if you're a VC.

Lorenzo de Leo: I definitely recommend VCs to partner up

Lorenzo de Leo: with accelerators because, instead of

Lorenzo de Leo: having a due diligence based on a couple of

Lorenzo de Leo: calls and maybe looking at some reports or

Lorenzo de Leo: whatever you know, imagine if you had a

Lorenzo de Leo: chance to observe how the startup works for

Lorenzo de Leo: three months.

Lorenzo de Leo: You know how much depth can you get, how

Lorenzo de Leo: much data points can you get.

Lorenzo de Leo: So that's exactly what an accelerator is.

Lorenzo de Leo: You know.

Lorenzo de Leo: It's like a pilot of the startup, of

Lorenzo de Leo: running the startup before you actually get

Lorenzo de Leo: to run the startups for real, right?

Lorenzo de Leo: And so, going back to what I was saying,

Lorenzo de Leo: right, so even with the companies that we

Lorenzo de Leo: accelerate, during the accelerator you

Lorenzo de Leo: quickly see who the good ones are going to

Lorenzo de Leo: be eventually, because up front, when we

Lorenzo de Leo: select the teams, you know we try to figure

Lorenzo de Leo: out who has the best team and the best idea

Lorenzo de Leo: and this and that.

Lorenzo de Leo: But when you really realize who the good

Lorenzo de Leo: ones are going to be is during the

Lorenzo de Leo: accelerator, because you see them in action

Lorenzo de Leo: and you, for example, throw them some

Lorenzo de Leo: feedback and you see what they do with the

Lorenzo de Leo: feedback.

Lorenzo de Leo: And what I always tell my company is like,

Lorenzo de Leo: you don't have to blindly implement what

Lorenzo de Leo: we're telling you, because we're just like

Lorenzo de Leo: advisors and you might find advisors with

Lorenzo de Leo: different opinions and it's fine.

Lorenzo de Leo: That's actually why it's so hard to be a

Lorenzo de Leo: funder, right, because you're going to hear

Lorenzo de Leo: a lot of different opinions and eventually

Lorenzo de Leo: you are the one who needs to make a

Lorenzo de Leo: decision, because you are the one who is

Lorenzo de Leo: going to pay for the consequences, right.

Lorenzo de Leo: But going back to what I was saying, like

Lorenzo de Leo: we give them a lot of feedback.

Lorenzo de Leo: They don't need to implement blindly what

Lorenzo de Leo: we're saying, but they need at least to

Lorenzo de Leo: show that they're processing the feedback

Lorenzo de Leo: and they're eventually making a real

Lorenzo de Leo: decision, like a decision based on

Lorenzo de Leo: something.

Lorenzo de Leo: Hey, I thought about what you said I

Lorenzo de Leo: researched.

Lorenzo de Leo: I think you're right, I got to do it.

Lorenzo de Leo: Or hey, I thought about what you said I

Lorenzo de Leo: researched.

Lorenzo de Leo: I think you're right, I gotta do it.

Lorenzo de Leo: Or hey, I thought about what you said I

Lorenzo de Leo: don't think you're right, because of abc,

Lorenzo de Leo: you know.

Lorenzo de Leo: So I'm not gonna do it perfect, but at

Lorenzo de Leo: least I want you to.

Lorenzo de Leo: I want you to show me that you not only

Lorenzo de Leo: that you appreciate the feedback, but that

Lorenzo de Leo: you're know making good use of it.

Lorenzo de Leo: Versus there are a lot of other companies

Lorenzo de Leo: that maybe go through the accelerator

Lorenzo de Leo: because of the you know the recognition,

Lorenzo de Leo: because of the upfront investment that in

Lorenzo de Leo: many cases we make right, and then they

Lorenzo de Leo: don't really like care about anything else.

Lorenzo de Leo: Well, I can tell you I'm not getting

Lorenzo de Leo: offended because you're not paying

Lorenzo de Leo: attention to my feedback.

Lorenzo de Leo: I don't really care, I'm just observing and

Lorenzo de Leo: I'm saying that's not a good founder,

Lorenzo de Leo: that's somebody that is not able to

Lorenzo de Leo: appreciate, you know, the support and

Lorenzo de Leo: they're not going to change.

Lorenzo de Leo: You know that's their DNA.

Lorenzo de Leo: So, yeah, maybe you have a super cool

Lorenzo de Leo: project.

Lorenzo de Leo: You know you're not going to go far with

Lorenzo de Leo: that mindset.

Lorenzo de Leo: So, yeah, that's another thing.

Lorenzo de Leo: And let me ask you just again I try to be

Lorenzo de Leo: fair because I don't want startups to fear

Lorenzo de Leo: that I'm judging them or anything.

Lorenzo de Leo: There is also a fourth ingredient that we

Lorenzo de Leo: should mention, which is luck.

Lorenzo de Leo: Like sorry, because it feels like it goes

Lorenzo de Leo: against what I'm saying.

Lorenzo de Leo: You know, I run Accelerator for a living,

Lorenzo de Leo: right?

Lorenzo de Leo: So I'm supposed to be the one saying, hey,

Lorenzo de Leo: there is a science, there is a methodology,

Lorenzo de Leo: it's all true, but there is also like a

Lorenzo de Leo: little bit of luck, the luck of building

Lorenzo de Leo: the right thing at the right time.

Lorenzo de Leo: And this is very relevant in Web3, where

Lorenzo de Leo: the market moves with like crazy cycles.

Lorenzo de Leo: You know, unfortunately, I work with some

Lorenzo de Leo: startups in this past cycle that honestly,

Lorenzo de Leo: I'm completely like, I'm sure that the same

Lorenzo de Leo: company, the same founder, even the same

Lorenzo de Leo: idea, if you want, but most important, the

Lorenzo de Leo: same founding team, in a different you know,

Lorenzo de Leo: marketing side market cycle would have

Lorenzo de Leo: obtained much better results, right?

Lorenzo de Leo: So I don't know if it's luck, if they

Lorenzo de Leo: picked the right timing, or maybe, you know,

Lorenzo de Leo: it's very hard to predict, but that's also

Lorenzo de Leo: another component.

Lorenzo de Leo: And by severity, there are companies that

Lorenzo de Leo: are raising money easily, for example,

Lorenzo de Leo: which is one of the potential reasons of

Lorenzo de Leo: success, because they're supported by a

Lorenzo de Leo: better environment, better timing, better

Lorenzo de Leo: market condition, better ecosystem.

Lorenzo de Leo: You know, I definitely think, that nowadays

Lorenzo de Leo: you can build a successful startups from

Lorenzo de Leo: anywhere in the world.

Lorenzo de Leo: You know, from Argentina, from Africa, from

Lorenzo de Leo: wherever, like, I think nowadays,

Lorenzo de Leo: especially in something like Web3, there's

Lorenzo de Leo: no excuses.

Lorenzo de Leo: Yet it's still true that in some cases,

Lorenzo de Leo: being part of a bigger ecosystem helps

Lorenzo de Leo: Because you know, like here in Miami, for

Lorenzo de Leo: example, which is not even the biggest

Lorenzo de Leo: ecosystem for startups in the world, but

Lorenzo de Leo: it's a strong one, right, like, even if you

Lorenzo de Leo: don't want to, there are events every day

Lorenzo de Leo: Startup meetup groups, conferences, summits,

Lorenzo de Leo: even just like happy hour of the Miami tech

Lorenzo de Leo: community, for example.

Lorenzo de Leo: Like, even if you don't want to, you end up

Lorenzo de Leo: talking with founders, you end up talking

Lorenzo de Leo: about your project or listening to other

Lorenzo de Leo: people's idea.

Lorenzo de Leo: Clearly, it's much harder if you come from

Lorenzo de Leo: a small village in the middle of nowhere.

Lorenzo de Leo: You still have access to all of the things,

Lorenzo de Leo: but you need to be much more proactive,

Lorenzo de Leo: right?

Lorenzo de Leo: You need to look for resources online or

Lorenzo de Leo: you have to, whatever, right?

Lorenzo de Leo: So, again, I don't want to say it's all

Lorenzo de Leo: about luck, but I do want to add that

Lorenzo de Leo: ingredient to this conversation, because

Lorenzo de Leo: you can make your own luck, yes, but it's

Lorenzo de Leo: still a factor, right?

There's a couple interesting things that

you mentioned in all of that that I wanted

to pick up on.

One is that yeah, absolutely, I mean in

2021, I'm being a little bit facetious, but

you could almost rock up the VC with like a

little sheet of paper and you just write on

it.

It's like Uber, but on blockchain.

Yeah, sure, take $10 million, but last year,

you know, series A funding was so hard to

come by in particular, and there's a lot of

good projects that they hadn't reached the

point of being able to be self-sufficient

yet, but they also can't raise.

What are they going to do?

And that is a major factor.

I also think I don't know if we're going to

go back to how it was in 2021 again, but I

think, with the interest rates and the way

funding is working now, I think there's an

argument to be made that it's actually

healthier, because you had teams just

raising more and more money without any

path to revenue or self-sustainability,

whereas you know you're looking at this

framework of getting data, like we were

talking about.

Okay, so you have a thesis, you build, you

get a community, you get an audience.

Does it resonate?

Does it work?

What does the data tell us, okay, we should

build, that should be working towards

something that creates revenue or you know,

sometimes we can't necessarily measure

things in direct revenue, in cryptos or

whatever the closest equivalent is in a way

that makes that project self-sufficient.

They don't need to rely on funding anymore.

So now I think the zero interest rate

phenomenon is hey, you see it in Web2 as

well.

We just build to raise more and more money.

The objective should be to build something

that actually solves the market need and

therefore doesn't need to continue raising

money, other than they use that money to

scale a model that they know works and to

fuel it, not to keep trying to find

something that works just indefinitely.

So I think that's very interesting.

Lorenzo de Leo: Because what you said is really right.

Lorenzo de Leo: But on the flip side, sometimes we forget

Lorenzo de Leo: that you know from the outside, when you

Lorenzo de Leo: see like companies raising a lot of money,

Lorenzo de Leo: we think it's because they're greedy, we

Lorenzo de Leo: think that it's because they're out of

Lorenzo de Leo: their mind, or we think that it's because

Lorenzo de Leo: they want to scale, you know, too fast and

Lorenzo de Leo: in many cases that's true.

Lorenzo de Leo: In many cases there is a big speculation

Lorenzo de Leo: effect or speculation component behind it.

Lorenzo de Leo: But to be fair, in some cases those funders

Lorenzo de Leo: are forced to do that just because of how

Lorenzo de Leo: venture capital works.

Lorenzo de Leo: What I'm trying to say is that in a perfect

Lorenzo de Leo: world you would raise just the right amount

Lorenzo de Leo: of money enough to achieve your goals, but

Lorenzo de Leo: not too much, so you don't get diluted and

Lorenzo de Leo: you don't add too much risk to your company.

Lorenzo de Leo: But in other cases you're forced to raise a

Lorenzo de Leo: lot of money A, because your competitors

Lorenzo de Leo: are raising a lot of money and you're

Lorenzo de Leo: competing.

Lorenzo de Leo: Or B which is probably related to what I

Lorenzo de Leo: just said, because you cannot grow at your

Lorenzo de Leo: own pace.

Lorenzo de Leo: You need to grow as fast as possible

Lorenzo de Leo: because the market in which you are is

Lorenzo de Leo: growing and if you just grow organically,

Lorenzo de Leo: you're going to lose your competitive

Lorenzo de Leo: advantage and you're going to stay behind.

Lorenzo de Leo: So there are companies that might not even

Lorenzo de Leo: need to raise money because they might be

Lorenzo de Leo: like imagine, like an e-commerce platform

Lorenzo de Leo: you make revenue almost by definition from

Lorenzo de Leo: day one, right?

Lorenzo de Leo: Yet you might have to raise money because

Lorenzo de Leo: it's so competitive that you need to be at

Lorenzo de Leo: the competitive advantage.

Lorenzo de Leo: You need to stay relevant.

Lorenzo de Leo: So what I'm trying to say is that what

Lorenzo de Leo: people don't understand when they have zero

Lorenzo de Leo: exposure to venture capital.

Lorenzo de Leo: Like a lot of startups that I work with,

Lorenzo de Leo: they have never raised money, so they have

Lorenzo de Leo: bad misconceptions about raising money.

Lorenzo de Leo: They think that it's like a grant Somebody

Lorenzo de Leo: likes you, so they're going to give you

Lorenzo de Leo: money.

Lorenzo de Leo: No, it's a business proposition.

Lorenzo de Leo: If they give you money, it's because

Lorenzo de Leo: they're expecting something in exchange.

Lorenzo de Leo: So don't be silly.

Lorenzo de Leo: A, B, they think I need to raise as much

Lorenzo de Leo: money as possible.

Lorenzo de Leo: No, Raising a lot of money might be bad for

Lorenzo de Leo: your company.

Lorenzo de Leo: It adds a lot of responsibility, it dilutes

Lorenzo de Leo: you, you might end up with not enough

Lorenzo de Leo: equity to keep the motivation alive, and

Lorenzo de Leo: many more things.

Lorenzo de Leo: But on the flip side, there are some rules,

Lorenzo de Leo: and this is why you see people doing crazy

Lorenzo de Leo: things, just because this is how venture

Lorenzo de Leo: capital works, and either you play the game

Lorenzo de Leo: with the real rules or you're out.

Lorenzo de Leo: Unfortunately, that's how it works.

That's a really interesting angle I hadn't

considered.

Thanks for that.

I've got one last question for you.

Imagine someone is listening to this who

has been a successful founder in Web2.

Thanks for that.

I've got one last question for you.

Imagine someone is listening to this who

has been a successful founder in Web2.

What would your advice be to them if

they're considering starting a company in

Web3?

What I'm really curious about is you've

straddled both areas right.

So what are the key differences that

someone should consider to found a crypto

project versus, say, a SaaS company or a

traditional Web2 model?

Lorenzo de Leo: That's a good question.

Lorenzo de Leo: Clearly I'm going to hyper generalize it

Lorenzo de Leo: here, right, so clearly there are many,

Lorenzo de Leo: many different scenarios.

Lorenzo de Leo: But just to simplify it a little bit, I

Lorenzo de Leo: think that the typical Web3 founder is a

Lorenzo de Leo: little bit naive from a business

Lorenzo de Leo: perspective, meaning that the people who

Lorenzo de Leo: are building in Web3, typically they know a

Lorenzo de Leo: lot about Web3.

Lorenzo de Leo: Funder is a little bit naive from a

Lorenzo de Leo: business perspective, meaning that the

Lorenzo de Leo: people who are building in Web3, typically

Lorenzo de Leo: they know a lot about Web3, a lot about

Lorenzo de Leo: blockchain or crypto, but statistically

Lorenzo de Leo: speaking, they might not know.

Lorenzo de Leo: Let me say anything about a value

Lorenzo de Leo: proposition, a business plan, raising money

Lorenzo de Leo: and all of that Versus.

Lorenzo de Leo: In Web2, the typical, typical thunder might

Lorenzo de Leo: know a little bit more about those things

Lorenzo de Leo: you know.

Lorenzo de Leo: Like comparing the typical web3 funders to

Lorenzo de Leo: the typical web shoe funders.

Lorenzo de Leo: So in web3, usually they know a lot about

Lorenzo de Leo: blockchain and very little about business.

Lorenzo de Leo: Um, which is why I think that you know what.

Lorenzo de Leo: What we're doing, for example, with

Lorenzo de Leo: Accelerator, makes a little sense because

Lorenzo de Leo: that's exactly.

Lorenzo de Leo: You know how we can add those funders.

Lorenzo de Leo: But that's the reality.

Lorenzo de Leo: On the flip side, somebody that has a lot

Lorenzo de Leo: of experience in WebTool, as you said,

Lorenzo de Leo: maybe some successful funders, maybe

Lorenzo de Leo: somebody who's running a SaaS company or

Lorenzo de Leo: whatever.

Lorenzo de Leo: Again, generalizing, there are a lot of

Lorenzo de Leo: funders that probably are getting into Web3

Lorenzo de Leo: for the wrong reason.

Lorenzo de Leo: Some of them might not even need a

Lorenzo de Leo: blockchain, but they want to add this

Lorenzo de Leo: blockchain thing.

Lorenzo de Leo: A because it's cool.

Lorenzo de Leo: So it's kind of like a marketing thing.

Lorenzo de Leo: You know, like maybe not so much now, but

Lorenzo de Leo: like last year, two years ago, three years

Lorenzo de Leo: ago you saw a lot of companies doing that,

Lorenzo de Leo: just putting blockchain on their website

Lorenzo de Leo: because it's cool and because there's this

Lorenzo de Leo: idea that blockchain means transparency,

Lorenzo de Leo: blockchain means security, right?

Lorenzo de Leo: So if I say that I build this on the

Lorenzo de Leo: blockchain, you know it's kind of like a

Lorenzo de Leo: marketing thing.

Lorenzo de Leo: So, unfortunately, a lot of Web3 funders

Lorenzo de Leo: are building on Web3, a for the wrong

Lorenzo de Leo: reason, or B because they really have a

Lorenzo de Leo: misconception of what the blockchain can

Lorenzo de Leo: and cannot do, of what the blockchain can

Lorenzo de Leo: and cannot do.

Lorenzo de Leo: So that's kind of like my advice.

Lorenzo de Leo: I think you don't need to go crazy.

Lorenzo de Leo: The blockchain is a technology.

Lorenzo de Leo: It's not the solution to all of your

Lorenzo de Leo: problems.

Lorenzo de Leo: It's a goal, it's how you get there, and so

Lorenzo de Leo: you know, if you come from Web2, I think

Lorenzo de Leo: you should look at the blockchain as one of

Lorenzo de Leo: the many options that you have from a tech

Lorenzo de Leo: perspective to solve your problem, but what

Lorenzo de Leo: is your real problem?

Lorenzo de Leo: What is the solution that you're providing

Lorenzo de Leo: to your client?

Lorenzo de Leo: Now, if the blockchain adds value because

Lorenzo de Leo: it allows you to do things that were not

Lorenzo de Leo: possible in Web3 without the blockchain,

Lorenzo de Leo: then go for it.

Lorenzo de Leo: But if the blockchain aspect is just like a

Lorenzo de Leo: cool thing to say or a cool thing to have,

Lorenzo de Leo: or I like crypto or I like Bitcoin, so I

Lorenzo de Leo: want to do a Web3 project, those are not

Lorenzo de Leo: the right motivators, and I think that with

Lorenzo de Leo: this cycle, we got rid of a lot of those

Lorenzo de Leo: projects like a lot of projects that were

Lorenzo de Leo: using the blockchain for no reason, and

Lorenzo de Leo: vice versa.

Lorenzo de Leo: We saw many more projects that are using

Lorenzo de Leo: the blockchain for very meaningful

Lorenzo de Leo: applications, meaning solving problems that

Lorenzo de Leo: couldn't be solved without the blockchain,

Lorenzo de Leo: right?

Lorenzo de Leo: So I think they're getting to that point

Lorenzo de Leo: and I'm excited about it.

Lorenzo de Leo: But that's a typical web tool founder that

Lorenzo de Leo: comes and say, hey, I was thinking about,

Lorenzo de Leo: you know, adding the blockchain to my

Lorenzo de Leo: project.

Lorenzo de Leo: What do you think about it?

Lorenzo de Leo: I don't know.

Lorenzo de Leo: You tell me you need it.

Lorenzo de Leo: What's the problem you're trying to solve?

Lorenzo de Leo: Can you solve it without the bloodshed?

Lorenzo de Leo: You know like so?

Lorenzo de Leo: So, yeah, sometimes they are very naive in

Lorenzo de Leo: that sense, but hey, it's part of the

Lorenzo de Leo: learning curve, I guess, right, henry

Lorenzo de Leo: Suryawirawan.

Lorenzo de Leo: Thank you.

Thankfully, you know that we've been spared

a little bit of that in this past year now

compared to the past, because all those

people are now hey, how can I add ChatGPT

to my company?

Oh, we need AI.

Oh, I'm an AI expert now.

Yeah, but I guess my last follow-on

question is assuming they're getting into

Web3 for the right reasons, these prior

Web2 founders, what would you say are the

top three things?

Lorenzo de Leo: they should learn or upskill in to be

Lorenzo de Leo: successful in Web3, as they were in Web2 in

Lorenzo de Leo: general.

Lorenzo de Leo: Well, so A you need to understand the

Lorenzo de Leo: potential of the blockchain, but you also

Lorenzo de Leo: need to understand the limitations.

Lorenzo de Leo: There are current limitations, right.

Lorenzo de Leo: I'm a huge fan, I'm super bullish on

Lorenzo de Leo: blockchain, and so I have web3 like I had

Lorenzo de Leo: no doubts that work.

Lorenzo de Leo: You know we're gonna see more and more

Lorenzo de Leo: blockchain applications in our life, yet

Lorenzo de Leo: currently there are still limitations, for

Lorenzo de Leo: example, usability, right.

Lorenzo de Leo: So, yeah, maybe using the blockchain.

Lorenzo de Leo: I was looking at some social media apps no

Lorenzo de Leo: names.

Lorenzo de Leo: Social media is not a big thing on

Lorenzo de Leo: blockchain or decentralized networks in

Lorenzo de Leo: general.

Lorenzo de Leo: So now you have these decentralized social

Lorenzo de Leo: media platforms and I'm personally super

Lorenzo de Leo: excited about it.

Lorenzo de Leo: The concept makes so much sense.

Lorenzo de Leo: Yet if you really do it on-chain, I haven't

Lorenzo de Leo: seen anybody solving the usability problem.

Lorenzo de Leo: Just to create your user, you need to go

Lorenzo de Leo: through X, y, z amount of steps that are

Lorenzo de Leo: still a huge barrier for most of users out

Lorenzo de Leo: there.

Lorenzo de Leo: If you're not familiar with Web3, you're

Lorenzo de Leo: going to have a hard time, for example,

Lorenzo de Leo: creating a user in one of those social

Lorenzo de Leo: media decentralized platforms, right?

Lorenzo de Leo: So just to use it as an example, can

Lorenzo de Leo: blockchain add tremendous value to social

Lorenzo de Leo: media?

Lorenzo de Leo: 100%.

Lorenzo de Leo: Blockchain will enable you to do things

Lorenzo de Leo: that are imaginable on social media as of

Lorenzo de Leo: today, in Web2 social media.

Lorenzo de Leo: Yet, you need to understand that there are

Lorenzo de Leo: some limitations or some barriers, for

Lorenzo de Leo: example, usability, and this is something

Lorenzo de Leo: that in Web2, you might not think about.

Lorenzo de Leo: Those things, web2, we're not used to think

Lorenzo de Leo: about it.

Lorenzo de Leo: Yeah, there is always, like, improvements

Lorenzo de Leo: in UX, ui, you know, but we don't have that

Lorenzo de Leo: problem.

Lorenzo de Leo: Like, if you come up with an app, people

Lorenzo de Leo: will know how to download it, how to sign

Lorenzo de Leo: up.

Lorenzo de Leo: Like, people will have no issue accessing

Lorenzo de Leo: your app Not using it, but accessing In

Lorenzo de Leo: Web3, you have to have that.

Lorenzo de Leo: So, number one.

Lorenzo de Leo: But accessing In Web3, you had to add that.

Lorenzo de Leo: So, number one if you come to Web3, the

Lorenzo de Leo: potential is huge.

Lorenzo de Leo: But be realistic with the limitations.

Lorenzo de Leo: Like, you need to be aware of them and

Lorenzo de Leo: figure out how to, you know, bypass them or

Lorenzo de Leo: solve them.

Lorenzo de Leo: That's number one.

Lorenzo de Leo: Number two in Web 2, unless you're doing

Lorenzo de Leo: something that very specific, like