In this episode of Mind Your Wedding Business, we’re launching a brand-new podcast takeover segment called Business Trip! — where industry experts step into the host seat to interview Kevin Dennis and take a deeper dive into real-world wedding business insights.

For the first Business Trip, Shannon Tarrant, co-founder of Wedding Venue Map, takes over as guest host to tackle one of the biggest “hot topics” in the wedding industry: getting on venue preferred vendor lists and staying on them.

Shannon and Kevin break down why vendors chase these lists so hard, what preferred lists actually mean from a venue’s perspective, and why the real goal isn’t just being “listed”… it’s becoming the vendor the venue team genuinely trusts to deliver every time. They cover what venues notice, how event-day professionalism affects referrals, and why relationships, consistency, and being easy to work with matter more than trying to skip the line.

You’ll also hear practical, actionable ways to build stronger venue partnerships—like doing a site walk before your first event, showing up prepared, collaborating on social media in ways that benefit the venue, and sending the post-event follow-up that almost no one sends (but everyone remembers).

Shannon Tarrant is the co-founder of Wedding Venue Map, a Central Florida–based wedding venue search engine. With nearly two decades in the wedding industry, she’s passionate about connecting couples with trusted local experts and helping vendors build stronger, more effective venue relationships.

Highlights

1. Introducing Business Trip!, the new MYWB takeover segment
2. Why preferred vendor lists feel like “validation” (and what they really are)
3. The biggest mistakes vendors make when trying to get on a list
4. How to actually earn trust with venue teams over time
5. Event-day behavior: professionalism, timelines, tools, and respect
6. Post-event follow-up, feedback, and reviews that help you get referred again
7. Staying relevant: website, socials, and collaborating in a way that benefits venues

Connect with Shannon:

Website

Instagram

Facebook

LinkedIn

Connect with Kevin:

Wedding IQ

Fantasy Sound

Instagram

YouTube

TikTok

LinkedIn

All right, folks, welcome to a very special episode of Mind Your Wedding Business, our first one ever where Shannon's going to be our guest host. And she's going to take over, and we're going to have a conversation. She's going to interview me. We're going to see how this goes. And I couldn't think of a better person to do it with than Shannon because she's like equally sassy and equally funny and all the equals to me. So she's just the female version of me, I think, Amy. Am I right? I don't know, baby.

So excited.

love

it, I'll take it.

All right, so we have Shannon Tarrant with us from the venue help desk, but Shannon before we get into our topic today, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and how we got you here today?

Yeah, I'm such a super fan of this podcast and being able to connect with wedding pros through this format. And so I own a local directory in central Florida called the wedding venue map, which means I spend the majority of my time living in between couples who are planning their wedding and the local businesses in our market, the venues, the vendors, we have about 500 members that are a part of our organization. And so I get to have all these amazing conversations with both sides of the coin.

I'll-

but we're a free resource for couples. So I feel like they're a little more honest and give us that information. Then I take all that info, not only train our local venues and vendors within the market, but teach and educate and speak at conferences to educate venues and vendors across the country with Venue Help Desk.

Love it. But you forgot that you're an OBS speaker.

yeah, you're going to hear lots of no BS today. So I'm excited to take over hosting duties from Kevin today. He always gets to share and get great information out of us as speakers. So today I get to pull all that incredible information from him to teach you.

Hehehe.

Well, and I love it. And because this today is like a hot, I feel like a hot topic that we're going to dive into is getting and staying on the vendor lists for venues. So.

Ooh,

it's always the biggest topic, always.

Yeah, I love it. And I feel like, yeah, there's so much we can do.

Always a hard topic.

I

know we have so many good questions. Okay, so Kevin, as a well established business within the market, right? You know, and you've heard from vendors across the country, everybody obsesses over these preferred venue lists, being on them, getting on them. Why do you think that getting on one really feels like the ultimate validation in our industry? Like, why do people care so much?

Well, think it's the FOMO. Everyone has the fear of missing out. so everyone, if this is the hot new property or the hot new thing, and if you're not on that list, maybe you're not worthy. People take it that way. But we can break this down so many different ways. Because I am a big believer that I don't personally want to be on everyone's list because every venue is not right for me. I think that sometimes you've got to put the FOMO to side.

Mmm.

Yeah.

And

you need to evaluate what is this venue right for me? Do I want to work here? Do their clients align with what I want to do with my business and what I stand for and all that kind of stuff? I think that is one about it. The other thing too is I think people, when they get on these lists, they get lazy and they forget, yeah, we're going to dig into that.

⁓ we're going to dig into that today.

Where I think they forget that they're always renewable because I'm a big believer you're never as good as your last event So if you sucked on your last event, well that going into next weekend You're a shitty company and we're gonna just have to deal with it. So So but I think when it comes to this the whole thing wrapping it up I I think it's just people get a high off of it in our industry

Hello?

Mm-hmm. Ooh!

We sure are!

And it's like collecting trophies. The more vendor lists you're on, it's like the more trophies you have in your trophy case.

Yeah.

Yeah, I feel like it's a big flex, right? Especially if you can get on a competitive list that there's that like validation that comes into say, kind of I'm good enough and I've gotten there and I've done the work or, you know, I've earned my way there. But from your perspective, like, I feel like sometimes people think a preferred list is very different than what it actually is. So what do you think, you know, from a

Yeah.

with all the lists that you're on, what do you really think it is to be on the list?

⁓ I'm gonna I think it's like a front-of-the-line pass. I'm gonna be honest with you. So when a lot of the couples getting married and they look at these venue lists they're gonna start with those people first most of the time and If they don't find a fit in there then they're gonna go out to the knot or go out to all You know the website or Google or chat GBT all you know all the above and start looking for their

wedding pros that they want to work with. But I think it's like literally a hall pass forward. Especially, I think too, you got to think about it. If you have strong relationships with the folks that work at these venues, they're going to sing your praises and they're going to talk about you. So there's two venues we work at here locally and I'll be like setting up a wedding and I'll hear the sales staff walking through and they'll like point me out, there's Kevin from Fantasy Sound.

And then I was like, I just want to record what they say because it's the best material. I'm like, it's better than even if I were to say it, it would sound like I'm like, again, flexing and egotistical and all those kind of things. But the stuff that comes out of their mouth is so genuine. So when these people contact us, we're already a front runner in when it comes to the selection process. So.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's such high quality referrals come from being on the list that like, you know, while you're most likely not the only person in the category that you're in, there's probably more than one, right? But it's like, you get that opportunity really to have them give that clear and crisp referral that is maybe more than just on the piece of paper, you have that opportunity for them to kind of almost like matchmake for you to say, well, we might have these four vendors in this category.

Yeah.

No.

Mm-hmm.

but this one is the right fit for you because of X. And you know, that really clear defined referral that makes the couple take the next step.

Yeah, and you're 100 % right that when the venue is like referring you and that you're a fit because I'm a big believer that all all weddings are the same and not every wedding out there is my wedding You know what I'm saying? So there are my couples and then there are people that need to go with someone else because they're not my couple like I for some reason we don't align, know, you know, whatever it is whether it's personality or whatever it is so I think that's a good way of thinking about it, too, especially

Uh-uh.

Yeah.

Because especially if that venue person is singing your praises to this couple, and there is four, five, six people on the list, and they're like, I really think you need to start with this person because what I've gotten from you, that is like front of the line, front of the line. That's VIP pass that you get to this couple. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, I remember

some random story, but many, many moons ago when I worked in catering, was an offsite caterer and a brand new venue opened in town. It was a city owned facility. they are very city owns are very much like, here's the eight people on the list. We were on the list because it was like a city RFP and we followed all the rules and got, we won the bid. And, but it was, here's the eight caters. And if you ask the venue, they would say, well, we just give them the list. Well,

hard. Yeah.

Yeah.

The girl who worked there, I ended up going to college with her. So win, win. We had the extra in and I knew silly things about them. Like they loved all those silly flavored coffee creamers and all the seasonal ones. So every time we did an event there, I'd hit the grocery store on the way, grab a few flavored creamers and put them in the fridge. So when they came to work Monday, they had whatever the new seasonal flavor was with a little post-it note that said, love Shannon, know, from, from company catering. Well, they would give them that list and say, here's the eight caterers on the list.

Yeah.

Yeah.

but you should call Shannon. So they say all day that they're neutral, but when you can get that little extra edge, it makes a huge difference. So let's start from a vendor perspective. They're listening to this episode and they say, I want to get on the list. So can you give me some of the either like must do's or common mistakes that people make when trying to get on the list that you've either heard other people do or wins that you've had that you've earned the spot?

Okay.

I feel like we can go like we could do a whole on the mistakes. Yeah, for sure. Because I think so many people, you you go to networking events just like I go to networking events in my local market. ⁓ You know, so I am in Livermore, California, which we are part of the Bay Area, but we're about an hour away from San Francisco. So and a lot of the networking events in our market are in the city. But we go.

We could do the whole episode on justice. know. yeah, for sure.

Yep.

But there's not a lot, I'll be honest with you, there's not a lot for us there because most of it is city folks or whatever, you know, there. But I would go to a lot of these events with one of the wineries, which is Wente Winery. So if you guys go to your local Bebmo or local wine, Total Wine & More, you'll probably find their wine on their shelves. They sell wine in over 40 different countries and, you know, they've been around since 1883, long, you know, they...

something like a half a billion cases of wine a year or no half a million half a million wrong wrong wrong change the letters out anyway but they produce a ton of wine and they're all over so they're very well known and i'd go to the networking events and it's always good to watch other people network and figure out what to do and people would exactly and people would walk up to the folks from wednesday and literally hand them a business card ⁓

Wow.

And what not to do. And what not to do.

Can you put me on your preferred vendor list? Or, and this is my favorite, this is my favorite line, you need me on your preferred vendor list. Your preferred vendor list would be better with me. Meanwhile, they don't even know their name. They don't even know what their business is. They're handing them the piece of paper. So therefore, it's not like they've developed a relationship. And so that's the thing I think a lot of people go wrong, is they just try to do whatever they can to skip the line. But especially if you are,

⁓ my god.

Yeah.

like a photographer, a caterer, a DJ, know, name the category that is saturated with tons of people. You know what I'm saying? Like you're one of many. So what makes you different and what are you going to bring to the table for their clients and what are you going to do? So the biggest thing for me, like again, with the mistake, you're like going, keeping with the mistake is like just expecting it's going to happen. I will say I've seen it like

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There was a guy that ⁓ converted a VW bus into a photo booth. There was like a cigar roller. There was a girl that was a pet sitter. That is a very unique service. they're, yeah, I was going to say they immediately get, that's such a way different ass than everyone in the normal, you know, like a normal category, know, photographer, videographer, caterer, know, DJ Flora, you name it, you know, the one that that's are saturated. So.

Yes, I was going to touch on that for sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, when you do something so different and unique, we had ⁓ a company in our market that was, they did raw oysters and cooked oysters. like, literally that's all they were, did oyster catering. And they were trying to do all of the lessons that some of the tips that we'll share today. And I was like, you actually don't have to work that hard. You can send one email. They're like, that's cool. You've got great reviews. Looks good. I'm putting you on the list. And she was like,

No.

Yeah, but I want to meet with them and I want to show them. like, you don't have to move on to the next one, right? Because so when you're in a unique category that isn't a saturated category, like your main photo DJ, photographer, whatever, you definitely don't have to work that hard. But I think you killed it with something you said, it's that really knowing as a business and as a company, what makes you unique and different from all of the other people in your market, because you've got to look at approaching a venue because the guys I talked to venues all day every day, I was a venue for years.

You

It's

the pitch. You're like PR pitching yourself when you're reaching out to in any capacity at a networking event through email, through Instagram, DMs, you're pitching. And so yeah, you've got to build the relationship, but I don't even want to go on a first date if you don't look good enough for me to like start the conversation.

Mm-hmm.

And that's yeah, it's funny because like the people that are trying to get on the list, they're immediately, you know, we're getting married at that point, you know, like we skipped the first date and there's no there's no courtship or anything going on there. And yeah, I know. I know. Well, I was trying to keep it PC. But anyway, I forgot who's interviewing me. So I got to remember that. But but.

Yeah.

⁓ Kevin's so classy, he said getting married. I would have been like, you're trying to sleep with me. Sorry. ⁓ yeah. No, but you're right.

Like you can't skip ahead of it.

No, and I think and I in my experience, it's a two to three year process most of the time. And if you, you have to be in this for the long game, not the short game, because if you're in it for the short game, you're gonna, you're gonna, you're gonna lose and you're gonna get frustrated. But if you know, it's a long game and you know, you know, a lot of it will go on. Okay. I finally got, you know, the ABC venue is the, you know, the venue that we all want to be at. I finally got a wedding there.

Hmm.

Yeah.

So when you're there, are you like, one, did you read the rules and the policies of the venue that they have you sign? Most vendors don't. They sign it, turn it in, and don't even read it. Because I see, at the two venues I was telling you about earlier, I see so many people breaking the rules. So many. Like open flame candles, ⁓ standing on the chairs, moving tables without permission. I mean, there's just every, you know, and.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

The thing that I think a lot of vendors forget is there's every one of those rules or policies that are in there is because another vendor messed up and therefore caused a problem. Therefore, we're going to fix the problem by creating a rule. You know what I'm saying?

caused a problem. Yep.

Well, I think

that turns into such a, you yeah, there are some of those venues that have those things in place that people don't read. But I also think there's a lot of venues, privately owned venues or smaller venues that they don't have that specific list of that thing for you to sign. So a really good tip to keep in mind is you should ask what the rules are. There are a few things like, do you have a attire policy? What will you wear? Like I worked at a golf resort and

Yeah.

When a vendor showed up in flip-flops, I'm in Florida, but when a vendor showed up in flip-flops, our food and beverage director was like, don't let that person back here. Like now we didn't have a what you should wear policy. It was just kind of an internal, no jeans, no flip-flops, no whatever. But if you didn't ask me, you didn't know it because he just assumed you would know to be dressed professionally. Right? So I think taking the time to ask things like what are parking policies? How early can I arrive? Because when you do the things that annoy the venue,

and you haven't taken the time to just ask the question or go out and pre tour. If you've never worked at that venue before, you are begging these people to meet with you and they'll ignore you. But if you have a wedding book there, they kind of have to have that meeting with you. They, so that you're set up for success.

Yeah, well,

and that's a good way to get in and just like plant the seed in the relationship. Like, hey, I'm really excited to work your property. This is the first time working there. I'd love to come and do a site survey just so I know the lay of the land. So on the day of I'm not asking you a bunch of questions. And they're going to walk you around their property in 10 or 15 minutes. But that 10 or 15 minutes, you're going to do something that not every other venue vendor has done. lot of vendors don't do that.

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

But then on the day of, you're going to show up, you're going to know where to park, know where to unload, where to plug. Yeah, not where to plug in.

and not asking stupid questions. Yep. You can also,

while you're there doing that, I think an easily missed opportunity is while you're there to shoot content. So like grab your phone, shoot some like, you know, just the ceremony space, the reception room as it is, if it's not trashed and it's just like they would be touring, it's just an empty room or an empty space, and then post it to your Instagram stories. So excited to work a wedding at this upcoming property. You don't know who's following you, who might be getting married there, who's like, my God, they were just there.

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Right. And it also shows it is that flex to the other people who are trying to get in there that you're there. Now you might not be on the list yet, but that is the kind of stuff when, you know, from the venue perspective, I want it to be a mutually beneficial relationship. And the challenge is that as a vendor, the expectation is you're going to take about 80 % of the time I'm going to give and you're going to take, but you have to figure out how can you make this

I know.

Mm-hmm.

What are your ideas to make it mutually beneficial for us so that it doesn't feel like I'm just giving and giving and giving and you're taking. So do you have any ideas, Kevin, of ways that with your company or whatever you've built that to be mutually beneficial?

Yeah, I mean you have to remember that's 100 % what you say is we take more than we give by far and the fact that you're on the list Yeah, it's no it'll never No, never never ever. But I think the thing is is like how can you help them? Do they have like an open house coming up that you can provide? Like for us we would provide lighting drapery maybe play some music for that. You know what i'm saying? Like what can we do to help them?

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Always. It's never gonna change. It will never be a 50-50. It won't be.

Or like the Wintay winery, you know, they have a Mother's Day event coming up and I'm going to take care of it for them, you know, so to speak, because they refer me non stop, you know, so just having that and being in front of them, you know, it goes a long way. So finally, you know, you're a photographer, you know, hey, head, I mean, simple things as headshot room, you know, look on their website. Yeah, because

Yep. Empty room shots. Yeah. Clean

empty room shots.

because a lot of people need to know they always show the venue with how it looks all dolled up, but never what it looks like empty. So a lot of these couples get so confused at what it's going to actually look like on the day of. I think the really successful venues out there show like kind of this is what it looks like. This is what it can be. And so it kind of you're walking them through the journey of like the process that it's going to take. I mean, something as simple as that. I mean, florist, you know, they're doing something special.

Mm-hmm.

Get them, you don't even have to give them the flowers for free, but get them the wholesale cost for, you know what I'm saying? There's different things.

Yeah, yeah, we used to

at our property, we did a big Valentine's Day dinner because it was a resort and our florist used to give us wholesale on the roses for Valentine's Day. like we just passed, it was money passed through, but it saved us a ton of money by them offering. It was their idea. But you've got to be the one to pitch. You have to think about, hey, okay, I'm a dessert company. What can I do? Well, if it's a caterer you're partnering with or getting referred, you know, or the venue that does catering.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They do tastings all the time, be like, do want me to drop off a dessert box every time you do a tasting? That's free marketing for you, because maybe they haven't booked a dessert person yet, but it also makes me look good because I'm giving them a takeaway treat or a tasting box or whatever. You've got to think outside the box on ways that you can make it mutually beneficial for both of us. And of course, there's that opportunity. I think one of the biggest chances you have is if you are a vendor that participates in wedding shows.

yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

I

know wedding shows in markets like in some markets have a ton of them. Some don't have many, but if you participate in wedding shows, it's one of your opportunities to get in front of couples that don't have a venue. And so if you can help lead, generate for some of these venues that you're on the list for, they might not be at the show, but you can help lead Jen and be like, you know what? I've got a great venue in mind for you. If you fill this out, let me, I'll send you their info. Cause you'll forget about it by the time you're here at the show. Right? So you'd be, have to think.

Yeah. After you talk to 80

to 100 couples, yeah.

⁓ 100%.

But you also have to like think about things like using your social media. Are you tagging the venue? Are you location tagging the venue when you're posting? Like how are you do you build them a link back on your website? You've got it. This has to be a partnership. We're in a marriage here. And I know you're going to take more than you give, but you have to keep thinking of ways you can give.

Yeah.

Well, and the fact that we take more than we can give from the vendor side and that people get upset when like a venue comes up and asks for help from something. And it just, I'm like, are you like, finally I looked at this one floor and I go, are you fucking kidding me? Because I go, they refer us. I go, the least we could do is a little something for them. know, like I just, it just blows my mind. they're expecting me to do, you know, like it's just such a

my God.

Hmm

Yeah, do you know how much money they send you every year?

Yeah.

to do it

for free. it's like, but I think it's, it's, have to change the mindset as a vendor. You have to remember that like for your business, I'm going to do dumb numbers, but let's say you charge a thousand dollars out of that thousand dollars. What's your cost per lead cost your costs out of that event from the marketing, all of those pieces could be anywhere from two to $300 on that thousand dollars. I know, right. But it's about 20 to 30 % is usually marketing costs and operational costs and whatever.

A negative attitude.

Mm-hmm.

We need Tom right now. He's good with all these numbers. Yeah.

at a minimum 20 to 30%. So if you look at your marketing piece of that, the venue's doing all the marketing. They're actually paying probably way more than you are because they have to capture couples top of funnel, right? So you've got to look at it as for every referral you get in, you just got a 20 % off more or less because you didn't have to spend the money marketing to the couple. And so the venues expect that in return. We have a local venue. They do this incredible open house and she,

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

constantly either the vendors are like, I'm not available. And she's like, I plan them six months out on a Tuesday, make yourself or find someone on your team available. And she said, they're allowed to say no one time. If they say no a second time, I take them off the list. And then other times they'd say, yes, I'm coming. And then they'd like the day before be like, sorry, I can't come.

Mm-hmm.

that's can I tell you that that's my favorite is you. Yeah.

and she pulls them off the list. Like you,

you work so hard to earn the spot. So let's talk about that. You earn this spot, but how do you keep the spot? You just got, you got on the list. You did all this behavior to build this relationship. went on a date, but now how do we stay there? Because just cause you got on it doesn't mean you deserve to be on it for more than a few times.

No,

so the biggest thing I think of is one, following the rules that we talked about and the policies of the venue. Also, adhering to the timeline. This is where I think a lot of people go rogue. And there was a DJ in our market many years ago, because we used to get together as a DJ group, like pre-COVID, five, six years pre-COVID. We would get together every Monday, or every one Monday a month. And this one DJ would brag about

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Well, there's the wedding planner or the venues timeline and then there's my timeline. And since I have the microphone, we're going by my timeline. Can I tell you right now, Shannon, that DJ is no longer in existence? know, yeah, shocker, right? Because that's the thing. So it goes back to the value. Do you agree that your values and the way you want to do things align with this venue? Because if it doesn't, don't ever work there again. You know what I'm saying? If you don't like how they do a certain thing at this venue or you don't like how they when they want to do speeches or you don't like how some

Shocker. I'm shocked.

Yeah.

then don't work there and move on and find another venue that wants to work, you know, there.

I think that's such

an important factor. feel like there are so many people who are fighting to get onto the popular list, the cool kid list, the venue in town that's the shiny venue or the luxury venues. Like they want so bad to be on some of these lists and their brand doesn't align with it. Like you want to be on the list of the Waldorf or the Ritz Carlton in our market. have these, all these fancy, beautiful luxury venues, Bella Colina.

Mm-mm.

And people like, how do I get in that list? And I always joke and say, well, you have to sell your first born to them. Like you have to donate your first born because if your brand doesn't align, if you aren't luxury in your pricing and in your packaging and in your experience that you're providing to your clients, the way that they would expect it to be, you're chasing nothing. Like you're wasting so much time and energy chasing ⁓ a really big dog when there's so many venues in the market and new ones that open.

Mm-hmm.

that I think that's probably one of the most underserved, that people don't go after the new venue and that new venue has no list. So a lot of times they're starting from scratch. So it's a lot easier for you to earn your way onto those lists because they are not usually coming into the industry with a fully established list.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, and the other thing getting back to like what not to do is like this is where I've seen many, many people. Like I was working this one wedding at a venue and the photographer, you know, we're at the vendor table having our dinner in the other room and the photographer is bagging on the event or the venue. This venue, it's so dark. It's this. Complain, complain, complain. Soon as the venue coordinator walked in the door. ⁓ hey.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

How are you? Goodness. And it was just like flip a switch went from being a bitch to like all of a sudden you're I love you. And and then she goes through kisses the whole the girls. You know what? And how wonderful it is. And everything's going smooth. And my favorite was she was bitching about the food we ate. Right. She didn't like the food. And then, the food tonight was amazing and went on and on and on. And then after the coordinator walked out, go.

Why are you like, don't work here if you don't like it. You know, like I, I, I just, was like, that was the fakest crap I've ever been involved with. You know, like you just, so you gotta make sure come full circle here. You gotta be nice to everyone, whether it's a setup people to the banquet people, the servers, the banquet captain. Okay. Okay.

Right?

Yeah.

Yeah. Yes.

Ooh, wait, let's dig into that because I think event day behavior is a

huge factor of, know, you can only do so much before the event. And, but I think on event day that the behavior of how you act, yes, following the rules and stuff. So that was it. You just were about to drop a bomb tip. So what is talk a little bit more about what you were just about to say, because as someone who worked at the venue and I knew everything from

Hehehehehe

the people who were literally blowing the leaves up to the banquet servers, to the captains, to the bartenders, to the salesperson who most of the time at like a hotel venue, the salesperson isn't referring anyone. It's the coordinators who do. So tell a little bit more, dig in a little bit more with what you were about to say.

Mm-hmm.

Well, I was going to say you got to be nice to everyone because you never know, you know, because like this one venue that we work at all the time, like the banquet captains have to write a summary of the event. And if you were being bad or being difficult or making their job hard, it's going to get written in the summary notes. And then what they do, they have some fancy system where it takes their your information and they keep a log on the vendors. And so they can go back and say, well, on

Mmm.

July 10th, this happened on August this, They can cite day and whose wedding it was, what happened. So you got to remember, you got to be nice to everyone. And not just because it's the right thing to do as human beings, but it's just because you never know, hey, this banquet captain might work their way on up to become a salesperson or a server, ⁓ or a coordinator, or you never know where that next person.

where they're going to, or they're going to move, you know, they're a banquet captain here, but then they got hired at another venue somewhere else. And if you had a great relationship with you here, they're going to bring you over to the new property, you know? And so you never know where that next one's going to be. But I mean, but getting back to your point, it's like showing up with all the tools that you need to do your job. It's not the venue's job to provide you with a screwdriver, a hammer, ⁓ you know, wire cutters, scissors. ⁓

Over.

Yep.

fishing string, gaff tape. ⁓ I mean, I figure there's more things we could probably get into that most people forget. And the one that I see the most is not having the right hand truck or cart to get your stuff in.

all the time.

Yeah.

⁓ my

god, expecting the venue to provide you something to load is wild. All the time.

Well, and my favorite is when you

will. yeah, right. Like bring because nowadays Home Depot, Amazon, Lowe's, you, you line Harbor Freight. You can go all these places and get get a car. Costco sells them sometimes. You know what saying?

Yeah, anywhere.

You can get a car anywhere. ⁓ my, yeah, Walmart.

have my, my little buggy. My like fold up buggy is from, is from Walmart. We have a big flatbed from Harbor Freight. Right. Yeah. It's inexpensive.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, it just, and you're, you're taking your, from amateur status to professional status, because that's what it is. If you don't have all the proper, you know, you may be the greatest florist ever, but if you don't have the vehicle to get it there and you're using the U-Haul, great. You got to start somewhere, right? But then you show up and you don't have any, any way to get this stuff into the property or, or you're expecting, like my favorite is, we're running late. Can you have your staff help me move this? No, they can't help you move it because

Totally.

Mm-hmm.

They have, you know, they're on a, yeah, and they got a countdown. You know, T minus two hours, everybody there is accounting for something that they need to do. And you coming and asking them to help you move stuff or do things is not gonna help.

and

or showing up out of timing. Once we had a cake vendor who showed up at like 11 a.m. So one of the ⁓ event spaces at my hotel was the lunch restaurant. It was breakfast and lunch. As soon as it closed for lunch at two, we flipped the space, realigned everything, cleared stuff out, dropped the dance floor, whatever. So by the time the vendor showed up, everything was set and ready to go. She showed up at like 11 a.m. and was like, I have the cake. And I was like, cool.

Hmm.

we have your arrival at two. And she said, well, I had a lot of cakes to deliver, so I need to drop this off. And I said, well, that's a problem because we don't move cakes. Because if we drop the cake, it's all ours. And I was like, we don't touch and move the, well, where's the cake table? I was like, it's not even in the room yet. And so that person had been referred in the past and that was it. This was the like the 10th, which was the list of, and I was like, get her off the list because now everyone's scrambling. Now we're literally putting out a wedding cake at two at like,

Final straw, yeah.

11 a.m. for a five o'clock wet. Like it just, when you cause the extra because you don't play ball. Now had she reached out and had a conversation and we could have coordinated and planned and been like, you know what, if we move it over to that corner, could, like we could have had a conversation about it to work through it, but to just assume that we're gonna bow, the venue's gonna bow to what you need, freaking wild.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, this is not time to ask for forgiveness, you know, instead of permission. Like this is the type of time you call ahead of time. that because again, it's about building relationships. And I think what a lot of vendors forget is that they don't think of the venue as I always think of it as I'm a guest in someone's home. And so think about if you walk Shannon, if I walk into your house, I'm not going to open your refrigerator. I'm not going to go start helping myself to

No. No.

Yeah.

Yes.

things in your garage that I need. You know what I'm saying? I'm not going to be standing on your furniture. I'm not gonna you know, be this is my favorite. I need I need this. Yeah.

It happens all the time though to me

about times people would grab one of our banquet chairs and stand on it and I was like, what is that?

No, yeah. Well, and you can, again, go back to Walmart. You can get a little stepladder for less than $30 at Walmart, and now you're a professional. And especially because for liability reasons, a lot of these venues don't want you standing on all their. No.

Bring a stepladder if you need to be up higher, like bring your own tools.

Yeah. Yup. Yeah.

No,

no, you fall now it's your insurance, not mine. Not dealing with it. Okay, so we talked about some things to do before the event, go on a site visit, go tour. We talked about during the event. Okay, the event's over. So let's say it's the first time I'm working there and I've pre-toured and I've been a good player all day. The event's over on the other side. What are some good things that I can do, like actual actionable tips that as a vendor,

Yeah.

I can do to stay in that venue's good graces and hopefully work towards earning my spot. Do you have any post-event tips?

I think the number one is ask for feedback. You can send an email or a phone call and ask like, hey, how was I to work with? What are some things I can improve on? Is there anything I can do for the next time I'm there to make your life easier? And if you take that approach, I think that'll go, because one, the venues are not hearing that. They're not, yeah.

Mmm.

No, we could just end the episode right now. If you

do that, it's what this is what something I teach. So I was like, please say it, please say it. If you literally reach out the Monday after an event and you send an email, you could have this pre-scheduled to go unless something really went bad and be careful, but send the email saying, look, we really enjoyed working your venue. If you can highlight a named employee, Susie, the banquet captain was a joy to work with.

No.

Yeah.

Or comment on the food or comment on... Yeah. Yeah.

comment on the, anything, anything, something

that was a moment that day, blah, blah, whatever, and say, yep, yep, your feedback to us is so important. If there's anything we could have done to make your job easier, be a better partner that day, whatever, feedback is a gift and we want to hear it. The good, the bad, the ugly, let us know.

how beautiful the ceremony site was. mean, you can just, I mean.

Mm-hmm.

Well, but you got to take the so that's the other thing. So if you do get the feedback and it may be constructive, you need to next time you work there, take that and run with it because you're because if you really if someone does give you a little bit, hey, I would really appreciate it if you did X, Y and Z instead of ABC next time you're here. And that would be awesome. So next time you're there, you're doing it. And and then boom, they're going to go, they listen. ⁓

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Mm-hmm. Let's do it.

No, for

sure. But I'll tell you, no one even asks. So as somebody who worked at a venue for like almost 10 years, no one ever asks for feedback. And you know what the venues do and the vendors get so pissed? They just take you off the list. They don't tell you. They don't care enough. It's not their job to tell you. It's not my job to market you to begin with. I only do it because I want to refer people that we want to work with that make my job easier and that really help our couples and they have a great experience.

They're not delivering the cake at 11 o'clock. Yeah.

Mm-mm.

Mm-hmm. Nope.

So you might be fantastic at what you do, but if you make my job harder and you fight with me or you fight with my staff or you argue or you don't bring your own tools, I don't want to refer you. So if you ask for feedback, ⁓ my God. Yeah. And so if you ask for feedback, that sets you apart on its own. Number one, my favorite, my other favorite tip outside of that one, since you already stole it is to go write the venue or review, go onto Google and go on and name

Go rogue on the timeline? Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

because you know who get if it depends on the property, but the owners see the reviews. So if you were working with an event manager, banquet, like keep a note in your phone that day of everybody you come in contact with who works there that you liked and name all of them in the review. We worked a wedding there. Talk about how great the staff was to work with and whatever. Number one, the couples read those reviews and so now you've just attached your brand to that venue. So potentially helps you lead Jen, which is great, but

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

when you name the employees, then the bosses recognize them, it makes them feel good. That's the kind of stuff guys that almost no one does. We had one vendor that it was, could always like, she would after every venue she worked at, she'd go after every wedding and write a review for every single vendor on the team. It was fantastic. She grew her business so freaking fast because that was something that just no one else ever did.

Mmm.

Mmm.

I love it. And that's such a low hanging fruit, easy thing, doesn't cost you anything, but yeah. I know. I know nowadays you could, no, ⁓ you could probably, well yeah, we could probably throw it. You have a funny name for your chat, gbt2. What is it? Okay. I thought it, I thought it's funny. I almost said chatty. I'm like, I think you call you. Yeah. Well, I named mine Hey Girl Hey. And so, hey, so, hey.

And with Chad GBT, don't be, I mean, it takes literally 36 seconds now. Like you don't even have to fully use your brain anymore. We have tools to do it.

I mean, I just call her chatty, but she's definitely a woman, for sure. It's chatty. Yeah, it's chatty. I love that.

Yeah, hey girl. Hey, and so it's funny

Yeah.

because it becomes a thing in the office They're like you better ask hey girl. Hey about what you know, and it just becomes a thing but but I could throw in hey girl. Hey Here's the five people. I just worked a wedding and I had a great experience Can you please throw it in and you give it all the prompts? It's the most amazing thing how it'll pop it all out for you copy paste copy paste and boom, you know, it's such a low hanging fruit, you know, I mean

Yep.

Yeah, but it's

like that repetition of building a system, right? It's saying to yourself, every time you do an event, it is dating, right? So before you were to go on a date with someone, you would take a shower, you would make yourself look good, you would dress appropriately, you would choose a restaurant or a place that is something they enjoy. It's that repetition of the work that says, if I want to build a relationship to get on this list, to just assume that you're good enough because you're on other lists or you don't...

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

I think you touched on it a little early. So I want to bring it back up and, you know, towards as we're starting to round towards the end of the episode, I think you touched on a little bit the making sure that it's the right fit for both sides, that people chase so hard after being on to be on all the lists, instead of taking the time to figure out so how does a vendor instead of just chasing a list because it looks like a shiny penny, are there questions they should ask? Are there things they should look at online?

Yeah.

that would say, this is the kind of venue that has my client.

I think a lot like one, there's a couple ways you can go about this. Go on their website, right? Jump in, ⁓ jump in Google, look at all the Google images for this property. Reddit, you know, you can go in Reddit and search on Reddit, like put that venues name in there and see what couples are saying about the venue. See what maybe there's a thread in there about venue, you know, vendors talking about stuff, because you may find out that the wedding coordinator at this

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

One place is mean. So you want to work somewhere where they're mean to you and not nice to you or they don't or they don't they refuse to feed you or you X you name what it is. Well, hey, I don't want to work there if it's it's not fun, you know, you know I'm saying like I want and that's I usually gauge for me. Is it fun? Is it not a nightmare to load into because that's there's nothing worse as a vendor having to load into a property? And you will know.

Yep.

Yep.

Yeah.

Yeah, a difficult load in. Up a flight of stairs, down a hall, yep.

You have to go in the loading dock, go into a loading dock, know, freight elevator, go down, go through a hallway, get in another freight elevator to go up. That's one of the venues we work at. And it drives me, you know, and so we do work at this one because they do refer us for some stuff. But that's the one thing that I always I'm like, we're at that place again and we're going to have to deal with the freight elevator. Yep. Mm Yeah. But so just try to get a big snapshot.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, we have to have enough staff, enough time, the extra pieces and parts that go into it. Yeah.

of this event, read their reviews. You're going to gather so much information. But then even when you're at networking events, try to talk to them. Hey, saw you're with what you're Can you tell me a little bit about your property? And shut up and listen. then come prepared with three to five questions to ask them, and listen. Don't interrupt them. Because people love to talk about themselves. So listen.

Mmm.

Yeah, I like

to ask too, I would love for you to actually ask how many weddings are you doing a year? Because I think sometimes people like I worked at a property that we were doing 140 weddings a year, we cranked weddings. But some of these places that you're killing yourself to get on the list for might do 30 a year. And so it does so you're like fighting hard to get into a spot or like what's your average budget spend? Like how much are they spending on the venue?

Good question.

To 20, 30? Yeah, 20 to 30.

Because if you're in that luxury category, like at 140 weddings a year, I had 10 photographers on our list. Two photographers were in the luxury space, like super high end, super, most were mid. And then I had a handful that were super budget friendly. Those two photographers would be like, well, Shannon, but you're doing 140 a year and I only booked 10. And I was like, I mean, but you charged $7,000. So you made 70 grand off the 10. So shush your mouth. Like those 10.

Mm-hmm.

That's a good percentage.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

I only sent two photographers to those 10 because they didn't like, they really cared about investing in photography because we, as a venue, we did matchmaking. Not every venue does. So that's another good question to ask. How do you refer venues? Sometimes they're like, we just hand them a list and it's off. Or some venues like in our market, the high luxury venues, they say we don't refer vendors. We refer planners. We have a required planner list and those planners refer the vendors. So you're selling your soul to try to get on the list at the Waldorf. The Waldorf.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-mm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

doesn't even refer vendors in our market, right? So it's like, you've got to make sure that it's that match for your brand and those things too.

Yeah. Yeah.

And

I think a lot of those venues, the higher end venues, do go that route. But then the other thing to think about too, just, mean, one, is like some of these planners, like that was a question I would ask planners, because I would see these planners and everyone would like roll out the red carpet VIP treatment for a planner. And then I'd ask them, how many weddings? Yes. And I'm like, I do eight weddings on a Saturday. You know, like it's like.

Yeah.

They do eight weddings a year. It's a weekend. Yeah.

And it just, you know, so I'm like, why am I killing myself to get, you know, but yet this planner does a great job of social media and do all that stuff. But I'm like, in my head, I'm like, why am I beating dead horse? Because they do eight weddings a year. Like.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, what are a few things if a venue was evaluating someone, if they were looking at a business, what are a few things that you think they go check? Like where are they looking to kind of validate that if I as a vendor were to say, I need to make sure these things look pristine because a venue is checking that, what areas do you think the venues are checking?

I

think your reviews, that's one of the easiest things. But I also think they talk to, like if they have a relationship with the point, like say they use wedding coordinators on their property, outside wedding coordinators, I'm sure they're asking those people. And then I'm, you know, and even they're, because in my market, all the venues are really friendly. So they all talk. Uh-huh. And so if you are misbehaving at one venue, all the other venues are going to find out really quickly in my market because they

That's a big factor.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm, they talk to each other.

They get together, it's like four to six times a year, and they just kind of like, how can we help each other? And it's smart because it's like, all right, I'm really booked in June, who's not booked? Where can I push referrals to? And they do a lot of that. Hey, I'm not available, but go down to the venue at the end of the street. They have some available. So they're trying to help each other because

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, they like shoot the shit, catch up. What's going on? What's trending? Yep.

Yep.

Yeah.

for a venue, they can only do one wedding a day. so, yeah, yeah. I think your reviews, making sure you have a good upstanding, you're a good upstanding citizen in our market. You know I'm saying? So that's like, there is a vendor in our market that goes to industry events and is known as the Shrimper. So don't become the Shrimper, because he eats all the shrimp on the buffets. Like, non.

Yeah, once it's booked, it's booked.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Wait, why are they- because he eats all the shrooms. I'm dying.

Stop. They're like, better have a, you have shrimp on there. Well, no, that's what I'm saying. or you're the person that, you know, there's a few people in my market that we know, like, hey, we got to watch, you know, these couple people because they ⁓ get drunk at these events. Yeah. And it's just like, granted, I love to drink and I have a great time partying and whatnot, but I, at these type of events, I maybe will have a glass of wine. Maybe.

Could you imagine if that was your reputation? You're the, the shrimper. I know, no, I know.

Yeah, they drink too much at events, yeah.

Right.

Yeah,

our company has a two drink maximum policy, two max, like maximum. I prefer them to only have one. But I think the other two areas that probably the quick look, knowing that if I as the venue refer you, this is where my clients are gonna go land to go look at you is gonna be most likely your website and Instagram. So if I'm referring them to you and I get to, I look at your website and there's no pricing, no even starting at or ranges, I don't need exact packages, but.

Maybe? Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

they're just going to come back and ask me, Hey, we liked the way that, you know, ⁓ fantasy looked, but how much are they over our budget? Do they look too expensive? So I think making sure your website is clear with what you offer, what makes you different and your package pricing. And then the other is your Instagram. Like they are depending upon the age of the client. It depends on if they're Googling you and landing on their website or if they're younger and Gen Z they're going right to your Instagram. So if you're not posting consistently, showcasing yourself,

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

you know, posting stories, tagging the venue, those things matter when it comes to me as a venue evaluating you. So you, know, five years ago, we used to be able to say, you don't have to do all the things. Unfortunately now game on, you have to do all the things like you have to Instagram. Your website has to be refreshed and up to par because for me to refer you, if you're not doing your side, you're just going to come back to me a year later. Even if I put you on the list and you're going to say, I didn't get anyone from you. No, no, no. I did my job.

Yeah.

Well.

You didn't do your job on your side, so they never called.

Yeah. Well, and we have a really good mutual friend, which he's more of a mentor to you, and I've just gotten to know him. But Tom Chalednik said, he came and spoke in our local market last year and said something that was so profound that I just, I can't stop thinking about it, is that if you continue to do the same thing that you've been doing the last three to five years, you're going to be irrelevant in the next two to three. Like business has changed that much in the last couple years.

Mm-hmm.

so drastically. Yeah.

that if you

are not adapting and changing with it, you're gonna be gone. And so.

Well, and the

venues can't continue to refer brands that aren't relevant. And it doesn't mean there's that we're in this really weird moment of time that there's people have been in the industry for five, 10, 15, 20 years, and they're fantastic at what they do. The quality of service, their customers are super happy. They're fair priced. The problem is the couples aren't asking about them. They're not the shiny penny. And when you become not relevant, I as a venue look not cool.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

if I'm not referring and partnering with who the shiny pennies are. So you've got to do the job on your side. And if that's like the one tip that I could give people that they don't really think about is that you've got to stay top of mind on your own. You have to have already done the work to build a brand, look shiny on social media, have a killer great website. When you do those things, it makes it so much easier for me to want to pick you.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, and the other thing.

If you have

one shift that you could get them to do, like one shift that vendors can make right now to up those chances, what do you think is something that they're missing?

One.

I think one is to collaborations on social media, find a way to collaborate with people on social media. Yeah.

the venues are so lazy guys other than hotels.

They don't have marketing departments when you make good content that makes my venue look good. Don't collaborate on a picture of a cake. I don't care. But if you do that pan across of my ballroom with the uplighting and your drape and a packed dance floor, I will clap. I will accept.

Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

But

the other thing too is get them, like if you have a new product or you're bringing in like a new color, for us it's a new color drape or you know, like just letting them know because it gets there, ⁓ wow. And then if they're talking to someone and they're like, ⁓ we're gonna do, you know, an sage colored, you know, that's one of our, ⁓ well, fantasy just got this new drape, you should go look in, you know what I'm saying? So keeping them up to date on what's going on. We do a.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

and your new services

and your new thing, whether it's an email list or like having that once a quarter touch point that you send out just to stay top of mind with the venues is so important.

Yeah.

And we try to do with our top top vendors that we work at, or venues that we work at all the time is like literally take them to lunch or take them to just a quick coffee for a quick check-in. And we literally, what have we been doing? know, like how did last year go or how did the last quarter go? What do we need to work on? How's our staff been? You know, just like go through all the things. And I think that's something that you can do to like build a stronger, deeper relationship because

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it's

those behaviors that are going to not only get you on the list, but keep you on the list. It's not always about, you know, some markets are really big on kickbacks, percentages back and things like that. And that, that might be your market that the only way to get on the list is cause you have to pay to be on that list. And in some markets, that's the standard. Just remember too, that like they're spending the money doing the marketing to get bodies in the door. So it's not a terrible, it's just some markets that's the going rate. I think.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Even if you're paying though to be there, you still need to keep that spot. Like you still need to be a good partner and be in a good relationship.

Yeah.

Well, there's, mean, we were getting out of time, but we probably gonna open Pandora's box. there's like, you mentioned kickbacks, is a whole, we probably could do a I can go a whole nother episode on that. even like, have you heard of the Hawthorns? ⁓ Yes. So there's, I know, I know.

Yep. ⁓ we could just have a whole other episode.

the publications. God. We just need to plan an episode later this year where we talk

about the financial responsibility of potentially of being a venue partner.

Well,

and some of those people are getting mad about it. I'm like, for 1,000 or 1,500 bucks, it's a no-brainer. Granted, do I want to be giving them money? No. You know what I'm saying? But yeah.

No, but if you're trying to get on that list, the

easiest way is to spend money to get in front that they're giving it out to all their clients. So you're getting your name in front of them. Yeah. No.

Mm-hmm Well and

and all those ones I always buy the back cover because when they hand them when they hand them on they're walking around with my it's like they're like a billboard when they're walking around because I do ever everything I can to buy the back cover of that thing because then Flip it over. I have a 50-50 shot. It's gonna land on my side and when they're holding it I have a 50-50 shot. They're gonna be holding it out with my logo

my god, yeah, give me.

I love it. Yeah.

Yep.

Yep.

Well, in a lot of

like Hawthorne is a company that creates these venue books for the venues too, and you buy advertising space in it. But a lot of the venues have gotten smart and said, well, I don't want to deal with Hawthorne. I'll do this myself. Our venue books that we used to give on tours, they cost $5 each, like per for me to print. They were huge. There was a velvet touch cover. Like they were beautiful pieces. But I mean, I did sometimes 50 tours a month, guys. I spent $2,500 a month in...

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

paper that I was giving out. for you guys to do an ad in it, for me to help get them in front of you and help cover our costs, that's that give back in terms of a relationship. So you just have to, I think it's changing the mindset, which we've talked about a lot today about it being mutually beneficial. And when you can think of it through that perspective is such a great way to be able to change how you get that opportunity to get on the list and then how you can stay there.

Yeah.

Yeah, I agree.

well, I love a good podcast takeover. Thank you so much for joining me on Kevin's podcast. Mind your wedding business. But this is my favorite topic to talk about. And I know when we were, we were chatting about it, this is one of those things that you have built an incredible business on the back of being able to have those relationships, keep them, grow them, develop them, and truly, you know, be one of the best in the market at that piece. So thanks for sharing your expertise with your own listeners.

I ⁓

Why my pleasure and well no and you gave a lot of tidbits too, but I mean I'll be honest with you I really don't think I would be here after kovat if it wasn't for all the relationships that I had pre kovat because Unlike you in Florida. We were locked down like we went almost eleven and a half months in between events and so we went a very long time without making any money and so it just we all kind of relied on each other and we all be kind of became each other's therapy, but

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

I mean, like, and we all came out of the other side, united and together. So it was a really, you know, but it's get out there and work it. That's all I have to say. Work it.

Yeah, do the work, put the work

in and you win on the other side.

Shannon, can't thank you enough for being the first non-Kevin host on the Mind Your Wedding Business podcast. It was fun. Well, you're always welcome. You and I always have the best time together. anyway, all right, folks, thank you for listening to another episode of Mind Your Wedding Business. We'll see you next time. And thank you, Shannon.

I love it. Love it. Thanks for having me.