“We need geopoetics because geopolitics necessitate other ways of being… Proposing alternate narratives to the hegemonic ones we are caught in is the work and play of geopoetics.”
– Erin Robinsong, Geopoetics in the Mess/Mesh
Enclosed is the last episode of our 4th season: a sympoietic stream of consciousness; on language, art making, and more-than-human interconnection.
Find a transcript, full credits, and citations here
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The feet are the link
Between earth and the body. Begin there.
The lungs are the link between body and air.
The hands, these uprooted feet, are the means
Of our shaping and grasping. Clasp them.
The eyes are the hands of the head;
its feet are the ears.
– Robert Bringhurst
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With the voices and words of Michael Datura, Astrida Neimanis, Cosmo Sheldrake, Rex Weyler, Robert Bringhurst, Jan Zwicky, David Abram, Megan Gnanasihamany, Stephen Collis, Eric Magrane, Hari Alluri, Nadia Chaney, Kaitlyn Purcell, Khari McClelland, Rita Wong, Jessica Bebenek, Vicki Kelly, Mark Fettes, Marjorie Wonham, and Cecily Nicholson
Music by Cosmo Sheldrake, Anne Bourne, Meredith Buck (as arranged by Vanessa Richards), Jonathan Kawchuk, the Time Zone Research Lab, Emily Millard, Khari McClelland, Ruby Singh, and Nathan Shubert, with field recordings by Julian Fisher.
Begin there —
Introduction Voiceover:You are listening to Season Four
Chorus:Begin there —
Introduction Voiceover:of Future Ecologies.
Mendel Skulski:Welcome back. Mendel here. And before we get
Mendel Skulski:started, I just wanted to say thanks for your patience. It's
Mendel Skulski:been quite a year, and it means a lot to have you with us. This
Mendel Skulski:is the last episode of our fourth season. So it's time that
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Mendel Skulski:Okay, now on to this episode. What you're about to hear comes
Mendel Skulski:from a gathering on Klahoose, Tla’amin, and Homalco territory,
Mendel Skulski:specifically Cortes island, in the spring of 2022. It was a
Mendel Skulski:symposium of artists and scholars of all description,
Mendel Skulski:assembled to reflect on, discuss, and share their
Mendel Skulski:practice. Namely, that at an intersection referred to as
Mendel Skulski:Geopoetics.
Mendel Skulski:The word poem comes to us from the Greek "poiein", meaning to
Mendel Skulski:make or create, and which would also be borrowed into the word
Mendel Skulski:sympoiesis. Quoting from Donna Haraway, "Sympoiesis is a simple
Mendel Skulski:word. It means making with. Nothing really makes itself.
Mendel Skulski:Nothing is really autopoietic, or self organizing" end quote.
Mendel Skulski:In that spirit, what follows is not a perfectly condensed
Mendel Skulski:version of those events, nor is it attempting to be. Instead,
Mendel Skulski:these many voices have been recontextualized and collaged
Mendel Skulski:from where I sit — here as an uninvited guest on the unceded
Mendel Skulski:and shared ancestral territory of the Musqueam, Squamish, and
Mendel Skulski:Tsleil-waututh peoples — into a stream of consciousness on
Mendel Skulski:language artmaking and more than human interconnection.
Mendel Skulski:The sound isn't perfect, and sometimes you can hear a baby in
Mendel Skulski:the room. But hey, that's life.
Mendel Skulski:Here we go.
Michael Datura:In the field of environmental education,
Michael Datura:anthropomorphism — the charge of anthropomorphism is sort of a
Michael Datura:dirty word. It's considered a logical fallacy. So that it's a
Michael Datura:formal critique so that even the content of whatever comes is
Michael Datura:sort of rendered false. If so, what if you just talk about your
Michael Datura:experience with that, and anthropomorphizing the ocean,
Michael Datura:but also ecologizing the body, and how you contend with that?
Astrida Neimanis:Yeah that's a great question. And it's a funny
Astrida Neimanis:talking to a room of a lot of poets and artists, as though
Astrida Neimanis:qualities like this could not be transferred across species, but
Astrida Neimanis:I think that my short answer to that leveling of that charge of
Astrida Neimanis:anthropomorphism is always like, why do we think humans felt
Astrida Neimanis:those things first, or had those things first? We learn our
Astrida Neimanis:feelings, I think, from the world around us, we learn
Astrida Neimanis:sensation, we learn inter-relationality, we learn
Astrida Neimanis:communication, we learn language, from all of these
Astrida Neimanis:things. So then to say, you know, to hold all of that stuff
Astrida Neimanis:close to us and say, "No, this belongs to humans. And it's
Astrida Neimanis:ethically wrong to consider that another kind of being would be
Astrida Neimanis:tired or be angry or be upset or need a hug" is I think, even
Astrida Neimanis:more anthropocentric in a way — because it like it hogs... it
Astrida Neimanis:hogs all of those great words and feelings and sensations as
Astrida Neimanis:though they just belong here. You know, where did we get them
Astrida Neimanis:from?
Cosmo Sheldrake:Something to me that I find really helpful
Cosmo Sheldrake:recently, particularly been thinking a lot about, because
Cosmo Sheldrake:I've been working with birdsong for a while. And something that
Cosmo Sheldrake:recording gives you access to — that just listening without
Cosmo Sheldrake:recording can't — is your ability to slow things down and
Cosmo Sheldrake:speed things up. There's this artists, Marcus Coates in the
Cosmo Sheldrake:UK, who did this project called Dawn Chorus, where he, he slowed
Cosmo Sheldrake:down birdsong, specific birds, by 20 times and got different
Cosmo Sheldrake:people to learn the song 20 times slower, and then filmed
Cosmo Sheldrake:them singing it 20 times, and then sped them up 20 times —
Cosmo Sheldrake:their breath, their head movements, they become bird in
Cosmo Sheldrake:this really uncanny way. And it just makes this really strong
Cosmo Sheldrake:point about this time, this kind of temporal barrier between us
Cosmo Sheldrake:and some other living organisms that exist on a different
Cosmo Sheldrake:timeframe. And once you can slow down or speed things up, you can
Cosmo Sheldrake:somewhat close that gap, and kind of meet in this weird,
Cosmo Sheldrake:uncanny way.
Rex Weyler:It's not so much a statement as a question — what
Rex Weyler:is the language of ecology? And there's an issue here with the
Rex Weyler:word "environment" versus "ecology". People think of the
Rex Weyler:environment is something that's out there, and we're gonna fix
Rex Weyler:it or we need it or something like that. Ecology is something
Rex Weyler:we're inside of. So part of what I've experienced in the ecology
Rex Weyler:movement over 50 years, is that we just continually get hung up
Rex Weyler:on language. And that I've kind of felt like I've been searching
Rex Weyler:my whole life for a language that actually speaks ecology,
Rex Weyler:and speaks of this undivided whole of which everything is a
Rex Weyler:part.
Rex Weyler:All divisions are arbitrary. We cut up the world to describe it.
Rex Weyler:And someone might say, "Well, we know the difference between a
Rex Weyler:rocket tree we know the difference between a tree in the
Rex Weyler:atmosphere." Do we? We talk about a tree, the soil, and the
Rex Weyler:atmosphere, but none of those three things (tree, soil, or
Rex Weyler:atmosphere — or fungi) exist independently in the others. So
Rex Weyler:when we speak of them, were approximating. Language is
Rex Weyler:necessary… or useful, let's say. Language is useful so that we
Rex Weyler:can just talk to each other. And we can talk to each other about
Rex Weyler:the tree and the soil and the atmosphere, when we know that
Rex Weyler:none of those things exist independently.
Robert Bringhurst:The real subject here is really how the
Robert Bringhurst:Earth means. I just take for granted that the Earth means. It
Robert Bringhurst:is so obvious to me that it has never occurred to me that it
Robert Bringhurst:needed explaining. But I hear a lot of people say that they are
Robert Bringhurst:engaged in making meaning, as if there weren't any until they
Robert Bringhurst:made some. I just don't get it.
Robert Bringhurst:The ground we walked on to get here, the stones that got stuck
Robert Bringhurst:in the soles of my shoes, and the other ones that are big
Robert Bringhurst:enough to stay in their places, and the trees, and all the
Robert Bringhurst:little plants underneath the trees, and all the little things
Robert Bringhurst:way up in the trees — they are all meaning incarnate. This
Robert Bringhurst:building is not meaningless either, but it ain't much
Robert Bringhurst:compared to what's out there. And we are meaning incarnate
Robert Bringhurst:too.
Jan Zwicky:You and the world are real together. You're built
Jan Zwicky:so that you can understand one another.
David Abram:To our animal flesh, to our creaturely senses,
David Abram:each thing I encounter is always withholding parts of itself
David Abram:within itself. And it also is hiding other things behind
David Abram:itself.
Megan Gnanasihamany:Their features refuse to cohere into
Megan Gnanasihamany:recognizable form.
David Abram:Nothing is ever encountered, all explicit, open,
David Abram:total. For me, that's not a source of frustration, it's a
David Abram:source of delight. It's just the signal that I —
Stephen Collis:Anima, animal, animate
David Abram:— in my own animal body, am inside something much
David Abram:bigger than me, in which things dance and play with one another,
David Abram:and beckon to me and others withdraw from my attention
David Abram:entirely and hide off.
Jan Zwicky:Explicit — what that word means is unfolded,
Jan Zwicky:everything has been unfolded. Well, often what that means is
Jan Zwicky:to dissect something, or to flay it, to peel it, to expose it. A
Jan Zwicky:great deal of biological life must remain implicit, or it's
Jan Zwicky:dead.
David Abram:And of course, a way to gain the bare beginnings
David Abram:of an access to the interior of something (without flaying it),
David Abram:is to ask and to enter into conversation.
Jan Zwicky:Make eye contact
Vanessa Richards and Chorus:Listen. Let your water be your guide.
Vanessa Richards and Chorus:Let the water decide. Lose yourself in the meantime.
Vanessa Richards and Chorus:Listen.
Eric Magrane:How the world is organized is a function of
Eric Magrane:belief. For example, here are just a few ways that climate
Eric Magrane:change is understood or portrayed. As an apocalyptic
Eric Magrane:threat to humanity, as a national security issue, as an
Eric Magrane:engineering problem, as a social and environmental justice issue,
Eric Magrane:as a hoax, as a business opportunity, as a crisis of
Eric Magrane:capitalism, patriarchy, settler colonialism, racism and or
Eric Magrane:neoliberalism, or as an opportunity for radical
Eric Magrane:transformation.
Eric Magrane:How climate change is framed then has reverberations for how
Eric Magrane:it is approached or addressed or ignored. These framings also
Eric Magrane:often map onto deeper ideologies about human-environment
Eric Magrane:relationship, expressed through social, political, economic and
Eric Magrane:land systems. When I think about the climate crisis from a
Eric Magrane:geopolitical standpoint, climate change is about time and
Eric Magrane:materiality. Time — the scales of time in which we must think
Eric Magrane:to understand climate. Materiality — minerals, fossils,
Eric Magrane:plastic bags, the decayed remains of marine life powering
Eric Magrane:our machines. In short, organizations of matter.
Astrida Neimanis:Scale asks us to measure phenomena in terms of
Astrida Neimanis:close or far, small or big, more significant or less. And we
Astrida Neimanis:readily think of scale in terms of things like time or duration,
Astrida Neimanis:minutes, years, eons. Or in terms of size or space — micro,
Astrida Neimanis:macro, local, global. It follows that a scale of mattering might
Astrida Neimanis:map onto these other scales according to things like
Astrida Neimanis:intensity and heft, or sheer numbers. "We need to scale our
Astrida Neimanis:actions up", we say. "Just a drop in the ocean" is a figure
Astrida Neimanis:of speech for a reason, after all. But despite our desire for
Astrida Neimanis:scale to temper the crass leveling effect of analogy, we
Astrida Neimanis:also recognize another kind of brutality creeping into these
Astrida Neimanis:scalar logics. Where Euclidean geometries assemble, to measure
Astrida Neimanis:and mark and value, and with these metrics comes fungibility
Astrida Neimanis:of each constituent part.
Astrida Neimanis:This is what anthropologist Anna Tsing might call the malevolent
Astrida Neimanis:hegemony of precision nesting — an expansionist logic whereby
Astrida Neimanis:scaling up means that any precisely measurable elements
Astrida Neimanis:can be multiplied without consequence. So here, instead of
Astrida Neimanis:the violence of analogy or equivalence, we face the
Astrida Neimanis:violence of quantification and reduction and exchangeability.
Astrida Neimanis:And neither gives us the tools we need for the kind of scaling
Astrida Neimanis:up that we seek.
Robert Bringhurst:Many things in the world are a matter of
Robert Bringhurst:scale. Sandhill Cranes are creatures whose song is within
Robert Bringhurst:our hearing range, and whose bodies are large enough, and
Robert Bringhurst:whose gestures are large enough that we can see them. And so if
Robert Bringhurst:you are lucky enough to hear the Sandhill Cranes and watch them
Robert Bringhurst:dance, you will be changed forever by this experience. But
Robert Bringhurst:another thing that ought to happen is that it ought to occur
Robert Bringhurst:to you that just because you can see the Sandhill Cranes dance
Robert Bringhurst:doesn't mean that nothing else dances. What about the bacteria?
Robert Bringhurst:What about the deer mites? What about the lichens? What about
Robert Bringhurst:the other things that are outside your range somehow — the
Robert Bringhurst:things whose voices are too high or too low in pitch for your
Robert Bringhurst:ears; the things that are too small or too large for you to
Robert Bringhurst:see. The Earth, for example.
Hari Alluri:I mean, we dance inside ourselves. Even when
Hari Alluri:we're still.
Megan Gnanasihamany:Nature and its description into image —
Megan Gnanasihamany:whether photo, drawing, or painting en plein air — has long
Megan Gnanasihamany:been conscripted into the propagation of a historical myth
Megan Gnanasihamany:— The untouched and glorious Earth, primed and waiting for
Megan Gnanasihamany:your eyes, and yours alone, to appreciate to capture an image
Megan Gnanasihamany:of your own.
Robert Bringhurst:A name on a map, like a contour line or a
Robert Bringhurst:smudge of green or squiggle of blue, can never tell you all you
Robert Bringhurst:want or need to know.
Eric Magrane:One — Note your elevation above sea level. What
Eric Magrane:poems occur here?
Robert Bringhurst:What is is what has happened, Hegel says.
David Abram:Who cares what Hegel says?!
Robert Bringhurst:And what has happened
David Abram:What happens is what is.
Robert Bringhurst:is what is
Robert Bringhurst:What is
Robert Bringhurst:spread out through time
Jan Zwicky:is what is timeless caught in time.
Vanessa Richards and Chorus:[Magic Number Song]
Nadia Chaney:But what stuck with me was the walk, not the
Nadia Chaney:song. I don't remember the song. But the specific walk that I was
Nadia Chaney:doing. So then I started playing with this walk all over town.
Nadia Chaney:And I had the weirdest thing happen, which was this temporal
Nadia Chaney:effect. Where I started being — the slower I walked, the sooner
Nadia Chaney:I would get places.
Nadia Chaney:I was working in a restaurant. And I had my boss start timing
Nadia Chaney:it until he got super angry. And he was — he stopped. He refused
Nadia Chaney:to do it anymore. Like he really screamed it out. He was really
Nadia Chaney:angry, because it was disturbing at a really deep level to his
Nadia Chaney:sense of... his sense of the way things are.
Nadia Chaney:And the question that I had was "is time incarcerated?" I read
Nadia Chaney:and I read and I was like, ah... I can't actually ask this
Nadia Chaney:question before I ask this other question, "How can we be more
Nadia Chaney:intimate with time?" I need to first encounter time before I
Nadia Chaney:start asking is it incarcerated, because there's all these
Nadia Chaney:presumptions about what is it... and I was doing the NGO thing
Nadia Chaney:unconsciously — already making the other the object, and then
Nadia Chaney:trying to fix it and solve it. So luckily, I caught that before
Nadia Chaney:I started the project and said, "Okay, how can we be more
Nadia Chaney:intimate with time?" And then the second question, "is time
Nadia Chaney:incarcerated? And if so, how can we help to liberate it?"
Nadia Chaney:So these zoom windows I know, I know, it can be offensive to be
Nadia Chaney:like... I heard David this morning, right, the tone like
Nadia Chaney:"not on Zoom." But it was different! People would sleep,
Nadia Chaney:right? There were people from all over the world. So as that
Nadia Chaney:entire almost like 15 hour period will go by, we'd watch
Nadia Chaney:the sun, we'd watch the shadows, you'd hear the birds, you'd see
Nadia Chaney:the dawn. People would fall asleep, and they'd leave the
Nadia Chaney:sound on, and the video on, and sleeping! Right? That's the...
Nadia Chaney:it was both the informality and the safety, but also the study
Nadia Chaney:of time.
Astrida Neimanis:We are now all tumbling in the circulations of
Astrida Neimanis:planetary exhaustion, where tiredness is both different and
Astrida Neimanis:shared. Much has been made of our 24/7 neon-lit late
Astrida Neimanis:capitalist cultures, the vertigo-inducing speed of the
Astrida Neimanis:Sixth Extinction, the spectacularly swift and tireless
Astrida Neimanis:resurgence of white supremacy and eco fascism, alongside the
Astrida Neimanis:never resting rising heat of the noonday sun. But we have thought
Astrida Neimanis:perhaps less about what comes after and with the end of this
Astrida Neimanis:world, the insomniac one — our bodies see no longer hack it. We
Astrida Neimanis:fall down, fall apart, exhausted. We need to sleep.
Nadia Chaney:And that happened all the time. It was like we
Nadia Chaney:were always right on time.
Astrida Neimanis:This is multispecies sympoiesis at work,
Astrida Neimanis:in the name of flourishing. Although we often speak of sleep
Astrida Neimanis:in terms of self care, paying attention to the ocean and its
Astrida Neimanis:communities reminds us that even sleeping — the most inward
Astrida Neimanis:oriented and perhaps solipsistic of acts — is actually about
Astrida Neimanis:mutual care.
Astrida Neimanis:Some of the planet's most significant deforestation events
Astrida Neimanis:have in fact occurred underwater. Off the east coast
Astrida Neimanis:of Tasmania, 95% of the giant kelp forests that once dominated
Astrida Neimanis:these seas have disappeared in the last few decades. In Western
Astrida Neimanis:Australia, a particularly hot summer between 2010 and 2013
Astrida Neimanis:wiped out 100 kilometers of kelp forests. These forests are not
Astrida Neimanis:only magnificent in and for themselves, but have been vital
Astrida Neimanis:for the formation of habitat on reefs around temperate
Astrida Neimanis:Australia. They are places for hundreds of other species of
Astrida Neimanis:plants and animals to rest.
Megan Gnanasihamany:A desire for order is the most dangerous
Megan Gnanasihamany:dream that is held by the majority of North American
Megan Gnanasihamany:citizens. Technically, even the fascists dream at night. It is
Megan Gnanasihamany:our obligation to dream differently.
Eric Magrane:Two — Map the quarter mile radius around your
Eric Magrane:home in a poem.
Stephen Collis:Everything's going to be... alright.
Stephen Collis:Everything's going to be... destroyed.
Kaitlyn Purcell:The world is going to end. Why is the world
Kaitlyn Purcell:always fucking ending?
Khari McClelland:I dunno how to say this, but I feel like
Khari McClelland:sometimes... I've had to observe a lot of like human life loss
Khari McClelland:and precarity, so I have a different perspective sometimes
Khari McClelland:about... I don't know, I feel like this is a weird thing to
Khari McClelland:say, but I feel like a lot of you might be really sad because,
Khari McClelland:like, things are really fucked up right now.
Khari McClelland:And I guess what I'm going to say to you is that... it's been
Khari McClelland:fucked up for a while. And I just like I kind of live with
Khari McClelland:that in my gut sometimes.
Khari McClelland:Just because, you know, for some, for some of us, it's been
Khari McClelland:hundreds of years of incredible terror. And, you know, it's a
Khari McClelland:great luxury to feel in this moment like something's wrong.
Khari McClelland:It's good to be agitated — to want to make things be
Khari McClelland:different. When we start to become a little too comfortable
Khari McClelland:with things being out of sort being unjust that's where if it
Khari McClelland:feels like it's a problem. It's like that since the agitation is
Khari McClelland:actually some kind of good fuel, I think.
Khari McClelland:[Song of the Agitators fades in]
Rita Wong:I struggle between being instrumental in wanting
Rita Wong:this outcome, and also just being unconditional that
Rita Wong:whatever happens we still need to do what we can. So it is
Rita Wong:late, but it is not too late.
Khari McClelland:Well here we are today, still pushing for
Khari McClelland:equal pay. And these treaty rights don't hold. Their shiny
Khari McClelland:like the Judas gold. Stain of blood still remains, a mother's
Khari McClelland:only son slain. And our youth are crying out for more,
Khari McClelland:continually being ignored. On that day, we will be family
Khari McClelland:equal born and free. Dawn will come, night will cease. We'll
Khari McClelland:rejoice, mind at ease. For that day we'll work and wait. That's
Khari McClelland:when we'll cease to agitate.
Megan Gnanasihamany:So every morning, the Earth turns and day
Megan Gnanasihamany:breaks over the horizon. And every night we spin away
Megan Gnanasihamany:eclipsed by the planet's own great shadow, facing outward and
Megan Gnanasihamany:away from the center of our solar system until we're back in
Megan Gnanasihamany:the favor of the light. It's not so difficult to miss the sunset.
Eric Magrane:Draw a line. On one side of the line note
Eric Magrane:observations. On the other side. write responses to those
Eric Magrane:observations. Which is which?
Jessica Bebenek:I learned to rinse my hands with vinegar
Jessica Bebenek:before lifting away the thin new mothers that formed on top of
Jessica Bebenek:the brewed kombucha every two weeks. To tell mold from age
Jessica Bebenek:spots, and to let go — to forgive myself for letting
Jessica Bebenek:things turn too sour. The process of fermentation presents
Jessica Bebenek:itself almost too easily as a metaphor. The way time
Jessica Bebenek:transforms something bitter into something full of goodness; how
Jessica Bebenek:the mother turns raw materials into something entirely new
Jessica Bebenek:while simultaneously replicating itself. Perhaps we can follow in
Jessica Bebenek:the footsteps of Susan Sontag's argument in Illness as Metaphor
Jessica Bebenek:in which she insists that, quote, "Illness is not a
Jessica Bebenek:metaphor." And that "The most truthful way of regarding
Jessica Bebenek:illness, and the healthiest way of being ill, is one most
Jessica Bebenek:purified of, most resistant to metaphoric thinking." end quote.
Jessica Bebenek:Likewise, perhaps the most truthful, or even the healthiest
Jessica Bebenek:way of understanding fermentation is as it is —
Jessica Bebenek:devoid of metaphor. Rejecting metaphor requires extending our
Jessica Bebenek:feeling, stretching our empathy towards understanding something,
Jessica Bebenek:not based on its use in relation to human comprehension, but
Jessica Bebenek:towards attempting to understand it purely for what it is. To
Jessica Bebenek:understand fermentation as not only a metaphor — because of
Jessica Bebenek:course it can exist both to us as metaphoric and actual — is to
Jessica Bebenek:understand it as a naturally occurring process with which
Jessica Bebenek:humans are simply collaborators. And in understanding this, we
Jessica Bebenek:can realize that this form of non-human life, this collection
Jessica Bebenek:of symbiotic bacteria and yeast, is as vital a form of life as
Jessica Bebenek:our own existence in the world.
Eric Magrane:Go with your gut, and repeat after me. I am mostly
Eric Magrane:microbial flora. Great. How does that feel?
Rex Weyler:When do those molecules of apple become
Rex Weyler:molecules of me? At what point? For me, I start to realize,
Rex Weyler:well, you don't need to know that because it's just this
Rex Weyler:constant flow. And that's part of the ecological consciousness
Rex Weyler:as well — that we're not independent, isolated beings.
Rex Weyler:And even though we have this skin, and so forth, that nothing
Rex Weyler:about us survives or lives without this constant flow of
Rex Weyler:energy, food, nutrients, and all of this. From an ecological
Rex Weyler:point of view, there are no isolated things, and everything
Rex Weyler:is a process. And everything is a process. So it's an
Rex Weyler:interesting question, but maybe not that relevant to ask "when
Rex Weyler:does the apple become me?" Because it was me before, and
Rex Weyler:then me after, and it doesn't matter.
Rex Weyler:And, you know, this sort of ties into this, this whole idea of
Rex Weyler:this expanded self. In human society, there have been many
Rex Weyler:movements, which have proposed that we, that we expand the idea
Rex Weyler:of self beyond the skin. So we have these social imperatives.
Rex Weyler:And there's a social self. And we're one with our brothers and
Rex Weyler:sisters all over the world. And we're a family. We've certainly
Rex Weyler:bicker like one. But this expand itself doesn't stop with the
Rex Weyler:human family, does it? And it doesn't even stop with all
Rex Weyler:sentient beings. Because it's the soil and it's the rock and
Rex Weyler:it's the earth and it's the atmosphere. Intellectually, we
Rex Weyler:can arrive there. But emotionally and
Rex Weyler:inter-relationship-wise, it's very difficult because we keep
Rex Weyler:falling back into our language — which makes things out of all
Rex Weyler:this process.
Astrida Neimanis:Bodies are not self-sufficient, zipped up in
Astrida Neimanis:some diverse suit of skin. If imagining the sea as a body,
Astrida Neimanis:however anthropomorphized, can help us understand its fatigue.
Astrida Neimanis:What might it mean for us to imagine ourselves our human
Astrida Neimanis:bodies of water as more oceanic? What if we understood ourselves
Astrida Neimanis:to as whole ecologies made up of component bodies and supporting
Astrida Neimanis:systems? What if the borders of our sovereign selves were to be
Astrida Neimanis:a bit dissolved?
Astrida Neimanis:This is not only an ontological question of what a body is, or
Astrida Neimanis:even what a body can do. It's a question of care. While our
Astrida Neimanis:exhaustion can teach us something about the uneven
Astrida Neimanis:distribution of sleeplessness as an index of other inequalities,
Astrida Neimanis:it can also encourage us to consider multispecies ecologies
Astrida Neimanis:of sleeplessness, and what it will take to help each other get
Astrida Neimanis:some rest. We need each other. We are nothing without each
Astrida Neimanis:other. Opening to share vulnerability, relying on each
Astrida Neimanis:other, we might help hold each others fatigue.
Vicky:each others
David Abram:Then the long range migrations of certain creatures
David Abram:can only be a conundrum; a puzzle we'll try to solve by
David Abram:continually compounding the various internal mechanisms that
David Abram:might somehow in combination grant the creature the power to
David Abram:grapple its way across the world. But instead of
David Abram:hypothesizing more metaphorical gadgets, adding further
David Abram:accessories to a Crane's or a Salmon's internal array of
David Abram:tools, what if we were to allow that the animals migratory skill
David Abram:arises from a felt rapport between its body and the
David Abram:breathing earth?
David Abram:That a Crane's 3000 kilometer journey across the span of a
David Abram:continent is propelled by a felt unison between its flexing
David Abram:muscles and the sensitive flesh of this planet — this huge
David Abram:curved expanse, roiling with air currents, and rippling with
David Abram:electromagnetic pulses. And so is enacted as much by Earth's
David Abram:vitality as by the bird that flies within it. What if this
David Abram:dynamic alliance between an animal and the animate orb that
David Abram:gives it breath — What... what is this? What seasonal tensions
David Abram:and relaxations in the atmosphere? What subtle torsions
David Abram:in the geosphere help to draw half a million Cranes so
David Abram:precisely across the continent? What rolling succession or
David Abram:sequence of blossomings helps summon these millions of
David Abram:Butterflies across the belly of the land? What alterations in
David Abram:the olfactory medium? What bursts of solar exuberance
David Abram:through the magnetosphere? What attractions and repulsions? For
David Abram:surely, really, and truly, these migratory folks are not taking
David Abram:readings from technical instruments, or mathematically
David Abram:calculating angles. They are riding waves of sensation,
David Abram:responding attentively to allurements and gestures in the
David Abram:topological manifold; reverberating subtle expressions
David Abram:that reach them from afar. These beings are dancing, not with
David Abram:themselves, but with the animate rondure of the Earth. Their
David Abram:wider flesh, meeting — between oneself, one's creaturely body,
David Abram:and the vast body of the land.
David Abram:So perhaps it'd be useful to consider the large collective
David Abram:migrations of various creatures as active expressions of the
David Abram:Earth itself — to consider them as slow gestures of a living
David Abram:geology, improvisational experiments that gradually
David Abram:stabilized into habits, now necessary to the ongoing
David Abram:metabolism of the sphere. For truly, are not these cyclical
David Abram:pilgrimages, these huge creaturely hejiras, also
David Abram:pulsations within the broad body of the Earth? Are they not ways
David Abram:that divergent places or ecosystems communicate with one
David Abram:another, trading vital qualities essential to their continued
David Abram:flourishing?
David Abram:Think again then of the salmon. This gift born of the rocky
David Abram:gravels and melting glaciers. Above here, nurtured by colossal
David Abram:cedars and tumbled trunks decked with ferns, fungi, and moss. An
David Abram:aquatic muscled energy strengthening itself in the
David Abram:mossed and forested mountains, until it's ready to be released
David Abram:into the broad ocean. Pouring seaward it adds itself to that
David Abram:voluminous cauldron of currents spiraling in huge gyres, shaded
David Abram:by algal blooms, and charged by faint glissandos of whalesong.
David Abram:Until, grown large with the seas abundance, this ocean-infused
David Abram:life flows back up the rivers and tributaries, and spreads out
David Abram:into the wooded valleys; gifting the hollows and the needle
David Abram:highlands with new minerals and nutrient; feeding bears and
David Abram:osprey and eagles; ensuring that the glinting gift will be reborn
David Abram:afresh from the lump of luminous eggs stashed under a layer of
David Abram:pebbles. This circulation, this systole and diastole is one of
David Abram:the surest signs that this Earth is alive. A rhythmic pulse of
David Abram:silvery glacier-fed briliance, pouring through various arteries
David Abram:into the wide body of the ocean. Circulating and growing there,
David Abram:only to return by various veins to the beating heart of the
David Abram:forest, ravid with new life.
Eric Magrane:Go to a different elevation. What poems occur
Eric Magrane:here?
Khari McClelland:I'm always kind of like, interested in
Khari McClelland:like, who's not in the room? I guess I think about that, like,
Khari McClelland:is this a space where my grandmother would be like,
Khari McClelland:"Yeah, this is where I should be." And like, not just my
Khari McClelland:grandmother, but like, so many of the people that I grew up
Khari McClelland:with, who didn't have the luxury of particular kinds of education
Khari McClelland:or particular kinds of experience. And are they
Khari McClelland:actually less equipped to be able to provide solutions to
Khari McClelland:some of the challenges that we're facing? Is there a kind of
Khari McClelland:wisdom or brilliance that is overlooked? The mundane
Khari McClelland:creativity that's practiced by poor folks, by women often, and
Khari McClelland:how that sits inside of inside of here.
Nadia Chaney:People who would say to me over and over again,
Nadia Chaney:"I don't belong anywhere. I hate groups. I don't join groups. I
Nadia Chaney:won't go to school, I can't go to school." A lot of neuro
Nadia Chaney:divergence, a lot of children coming and feeling welcome to
Nadia Chaney:speak, and speak their mind, and be taken seriously. It just
Nadia Chaney:really meant a lot — like this place where people would
Nadia Chaney:continuously name "I don't belong, I don't feel belonging
Nadia Chaney:and I come here." And this here — there was no here.
Khari McClelland:There really is no way to presuppose what
Khari McClelland:kind of miracle exists inside of each and every person. And when
Khari McClelland:we look, and we think we already know what kind of magic exists
Khari McClelland:inside of another, we've lost something.
Nadia Chaney:That's what I mean by inter-cosmological space.
Nadia Chaney:These whole like sets of knowledge could work together
Nadia Chaney:and come to life, and we would play with them.
Vicki Kelly:So in Anishinaabe way, we have our stories — we
Vicki Kelly:call them the sacred ones, the ones that are informing the
Vicki Kelly:worldview — the way to learn to view the world. And we call
Vicki Kelly:those sacred stories. And those sacred stories morph and form
Vicki Kelly:our imagination. And so the stories people us.
Vicki Kelly:Anishnaabe, the ones who were lowered here, were gifted with
Vicki Kelly:the capacity for language, but the language comes from the
Vicki Kelly:place. And the place is the sounds; the acoustic! And then
Vicki Kelly:when our language, respectfully, fits the place, and the place is
Vicki Kelly:singing it, and we're ringing it, it's a completely different
Vicki Kelly:thing.
Mark Fettes:I too, was thinking of Dylan Robinson and his citing
Mark Fettes:of Leanne Simpson in terms of Anishinaabe internationalism. So
Mark Fettes:thinking of the language as embedded in this web of
Mark Fettes:interspecies, international in her terms, relations.
Vicki Kelly:And then we track the teachings of our relatives.
Vicki Kelly:So when we're tracking them, we have to know their names and
Vicki Kelly:their stories and their teachings, given this
Vicki Kelly:mythopoetic landscape, what we call the cosmology. And we call
Vicki Kelly:that way finding. We're finding the human way, the Anishnaabe
Vicki Kelly:way of walking in this cosmology, and the teachers are
Vicki Kelly:our relatives. In our story, in our sacred story, all the
Vicki Kelly:teachings that were gifted to the beings in the seeds of
Vicki Kelly:creation, were also poured into the human and overflowed into
Vicki Kelly:the body of the human being, as well as the mind. And so we
Vicki Kelly:don't know them only in our heads.
Mark Fettes:And so right across Canada, you hear and I'm sure in
Mark Fettes:other parts of the world, you hear elders saying that the
Mark Fettes:language is the way the land talks to us. That is in a sense,
Mark Fettes:it's not our language, it's the land's language, which we have
Mark Fettes:learned in order to listen better to what it has to say. So
Mark Fettes:then, when the language has faded from daily use amongst the
Mark Fettes:people, there could still be a sense in which much of the
Mark Fettes:language is nonetheless embodied relationally in interhuman
Mark Fettes:relations, and in interspecies international relations. And
Mark Fettes:also a way in which even where those relationships themselves —
Mark Fettes:as is usually the case — are also frayed, because of the same
Mark Fettes:processes of colonization, capitalism and so on,
Mark Fettes:dispossession. Nonetheless, if relationships can be
Mark Fettes:re-established with the land, and a lot of knowledge has been
Mark Fettes:transposed into English and other colonial languages about
Mark Fettes:those practices, and the practices themselves are
Mark Fettes:enduring and carried on and passed on. Then there's a sense
Mark Fettes:in which language is also present in those things, even
Mark Fettes:though it's not being spoken as the language itself at the
Vicki Kelly:Robin Wall Kimmerer says that some of us, us the old
Vicki Kelly:moment.
Vicki Kelly:ones, you know, we walk back along the path where our
Vicki Kelly:ancestors left, the broken pieces — the songs, the dances,
Vicki Kelly:the words, the ways, the ceremonies — and we pick them
Vicki Kelly:up, and we learn how to hold them; to carry them. We put them
Vicki Kelly:in our bundle. We have these words, we put them in our
Vicki Kelly:bundle, and they travel with us. Like a lens, they help us
Vicki Kelly:interpret. They help us to see in ways, that's where we use the
Vicki Kelly:phrase wayfinding
Mark Fettes:I think back to my entry into working with
Mark Fettes:Indigenous people and thinking about the languages and my
Mark Fettes:mentor at the time, my first mentor in this area was a woman
Mark Fettes:called Ruth Norton, an elder from Manitoba, from Fort
Mark Fettes:Alexander. And at one point, I was doing research on the Ruth's
Mark Fettes:behalf for the Assembly of First Nations. And I had been reading
Mark Fettes:the literature on bilingualism and so on. At one point, Ruth
Mark Fettes:said to me gently but very firmly, "If some of our people
Mark Fettes:don't speak their language, it doesn't mean that the language
Mark Fettes:is still not deeply part of them. I don't expect you to
Mark Fettes:understand that. I just want you to accept that."
Vicki Kelly:So the Haudenosaunee scholar Dan
Vicki Kelly:Longboat says "How long will it take our imaginations to
Vicki Kelly:naturalize here?" Right, how long will it take to morph, so
Vicki Kelly:that we can carry the teachings of the beings who are here as
Vicki Kelly:our relatives? As, respectfully, as they are given. Not
Vicki Kelly:interpreted. As they are given.
Eric Magrane:Choose a species you know little about, but that
Eric Magrane:lives in your ecosystem. Learn everything you can about that
Eric Magrane:species, then go find the species. Write what happens.
Marjorie Wonham:[Translating Pablo Neruda] You ask me perhaps
Marjorie Wonham:about the Alcyonarian plumes that tremble in the pure origins
Marjorie Wonham:of the Southern tides, and about the polyps' crystalline
Marjorie Wonham:construction you have no doubt considered one more question,
Marjorie Wonham:posing it now.
Eric Magrane:Find an urban ecotone. Stand there. Write a
Eric Magrane:poem from the dual space.
Stephen Collis:Walkers are sometimes in flight. Have orbits
Stephen Collis:that do not recognize the idiocy of borders.
Eric Magrane:Imagine a rise in sea level. How will that affect
Eric Magrane:your elevation poems?
Hari Alluri:My dears, burglary has always been the surest way
Hari Alluri:to get the gods to notice and give chase. Language, sunlight,
Hari Alluri:the list goes on.
Eric Magrane:List everything that is natural around you. List
Eric Magrane:everything that is not natural around you.
Cecily Nicholson:Sky is light grown over days, everything a
Cecily Nicholson:coast of open bane, commerce winds up a bray coarse grit
Cecily Nicholson:shoals dense blue green fluvial strips and the dark green delta
Cecily Nicholson:dust — probably spores — hung in the air. Black apple fist fur
Cecily Nicholson:fish and lumber. Gray deciduous claims heights all logged to
Cecily Nicholson:stumps.
Cecily Nicholson:Conclaree has cht cht chp chp chp scoops blue ponded hard, to
Cecily Nicholson:boat or hike you would fly, flap, soar and dart.
Stephen Collis:So give me the light of stars that strives to
Stephen Collis:but can't quite reach us. The one whose eyes are struck by the
Stephen Collis:beam of darkness, the wings blinding, forms beating,
Stephen Collis:piercing, all songs singing, fragile light spiralling from
Stephen Collis:every wood and window. The time now is for pirates, and possibly
Stephen Collis:warblers.
Hari Alluri:And if I don't believe it when I say it,
Hari Alluri:sunlight, language, fail me if you must. I know eventually you
Hari Alluri:will. Divinity never forgets what's their's. The God's gave
Hari Alluri:us healing willingly. We've been trying to return it ever since.
Hari Alluri:Hand waving out front, shooing us away. They just won't take it
Hari Alluri:back.
Eric Magrane:Stand up and put your arms out. The length of
Eric Magrane:your arms is the circle of the poem.
Cecily Nicholson:We've learned to read the surface, like
Cecily Nicholson:departed fluff and pollen husks. Phantom wings lighten up and fly
Cecily Nicholson:away, wet and fall into soil, and a success of propagation
Cecily Nicholson:rest and whetted loose trailing, roots dangle and venture.
David Abram:In the absence of the written page — the book —
David Abram:the land will be the visual mnemonic, and it will be
David Abram:speaking stories steadily to us, in various sites in the
David Abram:landscape, various powers potencies presences.
Robert Bringhurst:Yeah sure, the world, the land is the
Robert Bringhurst:original page, if you like. And it's not written because it's
Robert Bringhurst:constantly writing itself and erasing itself, and correcting
Robert Bringhurst:or at any rate changing itself.
Megan Gnanasihamany:If the phenomena of the sunset is part
Megan Gnanasihamany:of the natural, unfeeling world, and I find myself to be as well,
Megan Gnanasihamany:then what applies to the sunset must in part apply to me. And if
Megan Gnanasihamany:the sunset is beautiful, then the world must be beautiful, and
Megan Gnanasihamany:I at least in part must be too. This revelation is present in
Megan Gnanasihamany:viewing any great miracle of the random universe that patiently
Megan Gnanasihamany:allows us to exist at the same moment as Northern Lights or
Megan Gnanasihamany:Spring. And if looking is a practice of discovery, then the
Megan Gnanasihamany:potential to find some similarity between ourselves and
Megan Gnanasihamany:the sunset should be enough to sustain some faith in living.
Megan Gnanasihamany:So go now, and watch the setting sun. See its colors be devoured
Megan Gnanasihamany:by horizons and skylines — the sky emptied out. There is
Megan Gnanasihamany:nothing to prove. What gratitude, love and grace we
Megan Gnanasihamany:might feel in watching the sunset has no recipient to greet
Megan Gnanasihamany:it. And what good is a fiction of pure individuality when you
Megan Gnanasihamany:are loving the world across the chasm between yourself and
Megan Gnanasihamany:everything that is possible? The goings ons of chemicals in
Megan Gnanasihamany:rotations, the marks of physics in their indifferent routines.
Megan Gnanasihamany:We are so small in the glow of the setting sun. Nothing natural
Megan Gnanasihamany:burns purely for our benefit. So love those last drags of light,
Megan Gnanasihamany:and our love is reflected back — leading us into the quiet
Megan Gnanasihamany:miracle of loving and being loved, with nowhere to go but
Megan Gnanasihamany:on.
Vicki Kelly:And our responsibility, says Leroy
Vicki Kelly:Little Bear, our responsibility is to give it back through
Vicki Kelly:ceremony — that we're paying attention
Eric Magrane:Fifteen — Write a poem that takes place over 4.5
Eric Magrane:billion years. Thanks.
Chorus:The feet are the link.
Chorus:Between earth and the body. Begin there. Begin there.
Chorus:The lungs are the link between body and air. Between body and
Chorus:air.
Chorus:The hands, these uprooted feet, are the means
Chorus:Of our shaping and grasping. Clasp them.
Chorus:The eyes are the hands of the head; its feet are the ears. Its
Chorus:feet are the ears.
Mendel Skulski:This episode was composed with the voices and
Mendel Skulski:words of Michael Datura, Astrida Neimanis, Cosmo Sheldrake, Rex
Mendel Skulski:Weyler, Robert Bringhurst, Jan Zwicky, David Abrahm, Megan
Mendel Skulski:Gnanasihamany, Stephen Collis, Eric Magrane, Hari Alluri, Nadia
Mendel Skulski:Chaney, Kaitlyn Purcell, Khari McClelland, Rita Wong, Jessica
Mendel Skulski:Bebenek, Vicki Kelly, Mark Fettes, Marjorie Wonham, and
Mendel Skulski:Cecily Nicholson.
Mendel Skulski:And with music by Cosmo Sheldrake, Anne Bourne, Meredith
Mendel Skulski:Buck, as arranged by Vanessa Richards, Jonathan Kawchuk, the
Mendel Skulski:Time Zone collective, Emily Millard, Khari McClelland, Ruby
Mendel Skulski:Singh, and Nathan Shubert. Field recordings by Julian Fisher, and
Mendel Skulski:our theme song by Sunfish Moon Light.
Mendel Skulski:A huge thank you to Erin Robinsong and Michael Datura,
Mendel Skulski:without whom these conversations wouldn’t have taken place.
Mendel Skulski:Thanks to Hollyhock for their generous hospitality and
Mendel Skulski:support, and thank you to Juliette Bertoldo, Megan
Mendel Skulski:Gnanasihamany, and Vanessa Richards for the help recording.
Mendel Skulski:And thanks to you, for listening. Don’t forget to take
Mendel Skulski:our survey, and to take care of yourself too.
Mendel Skulski:You'll be hearing from us again soon.