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Episode 316 - NSW + 1 Hour but - 40 years
12th October 2021 • The Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove • The Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove
00:00:00 02:00:53

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Topics:

  • NSW Leadership Thoughts
  • Gladys Excused and ICAC Vilified
  • Federal ICAC
  • New leader Dominic Perrottet
  • From Crikey
  • From The Spectator
  • Is Religious Belief Relevant?
  • The Perfect Example- Perrottet and Cemeteries
  • Perrotte’s Neo-Liberalism is the biggest worry
  • NSW VAD Update
  • Dan Andrews is The Man
  • Banknote artwork
  • Goodbye Facebook
  • 'Missing' man joins search party looking for himself
  • Jessica Rowe and Pauline Hanson
  • Uproar as all-boys netball team beats girls to win state title
  • Understanding Class in Australia
  • Larrikins, bogans and bullshit artists
  • Blue-collar blokes are deserting the left. The future is female
  • Climate Change Acceptance
  • Energy
  • Keith Pitt wants to lend Coal Companies $250 billion
  • Nuclear by Newspoll
  • Nuclear by Essential Report
  • Nuclear by The Spectator
  • Nuclear by Bob Carr

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Transcripts started in episode 324. You can use this link to search our transcripts. Type "iron fist velvet glove" into the search directory, click on our podcast and then do a word search. It even has a player which will play the relevant section. It is incredibly quick.

Transcripts

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Suburban Eastern Australia, an environment that has, over time,

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evolved some extraordinarily unique groups of homosapiens.

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Despite the reputation of their homeland, some are remarkably thin

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skinned, some seem to have multiple lifespans, a few were once thought to be

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extinct in the region, others have been observed being sacrificed by their own.

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But today We observe a small tribe akin to a group of meerkats that gather together

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atop a small mound to watch, question, and discuss the current events of their city,

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their country, and their world at large.

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Let's listen keenly and observe this group fondly known as the

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Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove.

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Hello dear listener, this is the Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove podcast.

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Where we talk about news and politics and sex and religion.

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It's been a couple of weeks since we last spoke to you.

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So we've got a few things to talk about, a few things have happened.

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And, uh, well, we'll get right into it after the introductions with me.

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Nearly as always, when she's not swanning around in Western Australia

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on some junket of some sort.

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On the Swan River.

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Yes, swanning around on the Swan River.

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Shay, the subversive, how are you, Shay?

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Good evening, I'm very well, thanks for having me.

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And Joe, the tech guy.

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Evening all.

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So Shay, wonderful time in Western Australia, sampled some wines, did you?

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Yeah, that's what I'd planned.

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I'd planned to go to the AFL Grand Final or at least the bar afterwards,

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but unfortunately police had other ideas, so I got quarantined for 14 days.

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Yes.

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So, anyway, Qantas sent you there to work and then it turns out you couldn't work

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and you spent the two weeks studying.

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That's right.

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Cooped up.

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That's right.

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Okay.

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So, anyway, it's just going to take a bit longer to keep everyone safe and get

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this border stuff sorted and yeah, then we'll have people moving around again.

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Well, I guess it wouldn't have been entirely surprising.

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You would have not have counted your chickens until you

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actually got to the airport.

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Absolutely.

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The whole time I was just like, There's no way they're going to let me in.

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There's no way.

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That proved to be the case.

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In fact, they let you in.

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In fact, I almost, I was like over the moon, yeah.

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So the police said, yeah, come on in.

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Yep, just get tested day 11.

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And then, um, yeah, missed a phone call from them to say, actually no.

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You didn't get past the luggage carousel.

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No.

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They started phoning you.

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I might have made it, but I was in my uniform and I was changing

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in the bathroom to go to the pub.

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Yep.

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Yep.

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Yeah.

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So if I'd left the airport in my uniform, I might have made an escape, but no.

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So anyway, no pub, no adventures.

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Yep.

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Sat in a room.

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Very good.

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Well, you're refreshed.

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Now last week, didn't do a podcast.

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I just, I'm going to do a book review and I just didn't, it's a really

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important book and I didn't feel that I'd studied it enough and was able to give

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it a good enough sort of explanation.

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So Less is More by Jason Hickel.

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That will be next week.

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And it's very interesting because, uh, it gives a nice little history of capitalism.

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Basically, when we're looking at renewables and the climate change, he's

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really saying, um, we've got an obsession with growth in the West and that Even if

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we get all these things sorted the just continual growth that capitalism demands

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means that jobs and growth Well, yes that we're gonna have problems so it gives

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a really interesting explanation of how capitalism is addicted to growth and that

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if we continue to just grow then We'll still have problems with our climate etc.

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So that will be next week.

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Hello in the chat room Dire Straits and Brommen Uh, Brollman,

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you're still in quarantine.

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Fingers crossed not too much longer, so.

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Um, also, uh, in other news, so you might remember last year we had our,

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our Black Mass for the Noosa Temple of Satan, which was held at the J,

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uh, Noosa sort of community hall.

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And, tried to rebook it this year, and they said no, because of the

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abuse that we receive from Christians.

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From loving Christians.

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They called our staff all sorts of names and threatened them with all sorts of

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things, so because of their actions We're not allowing you to book the room again.

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So, the only response to that is to protest in the streets.

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So, the plan is that we will be getting a permit for a street march, where we will

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be marching up and down Hastings Street.

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Uh, Saturday night, the 30th of October, and people will be dressed up.

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Not just a street march, it's a Halloween celebration.

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Well, it's a protest about what's happened, and we'll incorporate

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parts of the Black Mass ceremony as part of a protest, and then we'll

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all de camp to a pub afterwards, so that will be interesting.

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If you're in the Noosa area at all, uh, Saturday the 30th,

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it will be quite an event.

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I'll be there.

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Got my outfit worked out.

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Can't tell you what it is, but it's pretty good.

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I think it's going to be pretty good.

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Alright, so, um, so there we go.

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Uh, alright, well, what's happened around Australia?

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Of course we had the whole, uh, Gladys Berejiklian with her sudden resignation

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and basically following the New South Wales ICAC coming out and saying,

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Hmm, all that stuff that was going on with her and her ex boyfriend.

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Worthy of further investigation.

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And so she resigned as, um, premier and said, I'm out of it

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and completely not even going to hang around and wait and see.

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So I'm out of here.

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And really the reaction to that was very measured.

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The reaction by, by journalists, some journalists, by the

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community, I can't really.

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Worrying, depressing.

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It's kind of part of the reason why I didn't even do a podcast last week.

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I found it all quite depressing actually.

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Because here was somebody who was being, uh, investigated for corruption.

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And with some evidence there that deemed it worthy.

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And the sympathy that she got from different sectors.

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Was quite astounding, I thought, and you really had to say to these people, hang

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on a minute She is the one who is being investigated for corruption and it's her

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decision to reside and not hang around and So the shovel had put out a piece of the

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puzzle Almost immediately saying, looking forward to Andrew Boltz, you can't even

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be corrupt anymore, think peace, tomorrow.

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And then they did one subsequently saying, well it wasn't just Andrew

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Boltz, but it was basically half the journalists in Australia, and he's right.

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So, of course, the Murdoch papers excused Gladys.

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And, I guess, no surprise.

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I guess.

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Um, a typical example was Janet, Paul Brookson, in The Australian,

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who said, Other leaders stand small in Berejiklian shadow.

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Gladys Berejiklian can leave with her head held high, knowing she

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led not just New South Wales, but the country, into a pandemic.

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That's right.

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The gaslighting.

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That these people shamelessly do to try and say that New South Wales, even now,

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this perite, is saying, well, we're showing Australia, we're leading the

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rest of Australia out of the wilderness.

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Guys, we, we haven't been in lockdown in Queensland or Western Australia.

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People are going to the pubs, enjoying themselves.

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That's right.

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It's you guys who actually screwed it up more than anybody.

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And you want to gaslight us and paint this picture?

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Well, no, no, so New South Wales didn't go into a lockdown until six

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months after the virus had escaped.

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Yeah.

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It was a stay at home order.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Remember?

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Oh, yeah, that's right, yes.

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She couldn't even say the words.

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Yeah, yeah.

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So, you know, shortly after her resignation, maybe it was the

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next day, was the Sunday Mail.

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Um, and the, the front page of the headline, of the Sunday Mail, was bagging.

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Anastasia Palisade, um, saying something about, um, her handling of the pandemic.

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And then a few pages in was an article by Peter Credlin, opinion piece, saying

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the wrong leader lost their job and saying it should have been Dan Andrews.

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Yes.

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It bears no relationship to the facts and they're just completely shameless.

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Um, uh, so another example was, um, from Shari Markson, who said, Lynch

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Mob takes down yet another leader.

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ICAC has left NSW rudderless and has robbed the people of a popular Premier

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at a time of crisis and uncertainty.

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A lore unto themselves, ICAC is addicted to the power and publicity

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of the bombshell political scalp.

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Yeah, they've got a few scalps over the years but that's because over

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the years people have been corrupt.

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Even Berejiklian was saying Words to the effect, I was very rude

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of them to do this at this time.

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Like, couldn't they have waited?

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To what?

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Because this is such an important time for New South Wales.

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Well, it's kind of like the Trump impeachment.

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Mm hmm.

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They couldn't impeach him whilst he was in power because, you know,

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he was a busy run of the country.

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Mm hmm.

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And after he had left power, they wouldn't have been able to impeach him

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because he was no longer president.

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Yes, exactly.

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But even, um, My wife's got a couple of friends who shall remain nameless.

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Educated women, and they were like really sympathetic to Glaris

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Berejiklian, one even put a coat on her front fence in support.

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Wow.

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Yeah, that's what people were doing, was putting a coat on their front fence.

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Do they live in New South Wales?

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No.

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They live here?

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Yes, one of them does, yes.

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And they're very sympathetic to her.

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And another woman brought low by a dastardly man.

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Well, is there a bit of this sisterly sympathy?

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Yes, there is.

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Where they have not Looked at this rationally and coldly and and calmly and

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have applied a different standard to a sister Is is that what's happening here?

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It's it's not so much She is being held accountable for her these allegations.

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It's that so many men aren't right So that might be where the sympathy is stems from

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Where she's actually been, you know, has to resign, doesn't have to resign, but

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chose to resign, chose to, you know, face the consequences more or less, depending

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on how you, that's just how it was framed.

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Certainly, but even as I'm saying it, I'm like, well, I

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don't know, this is balanced.

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I can hear my own bias, but I can't help it.

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But in New South Wales, they've caught men and men have resigned.

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Like, who's the guy with the wine bottle?

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I can't even remember his name, but there's different.

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Basically men.

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She's probably the first woman.

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I don't know the exact history of New South Wales corrupt and corrupt politics.

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So, but there's certainly been enough men that it's not a

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picking on women issue here.

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Yeah.

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In ICAC's, um, what they've done.

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So, I mean, ICAC's not perfect and there have been cases where some

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people have been investigated by ICAC and had their, subsequently, so

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all ICAC And then they'd recommend that the police should prosecute.

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So there's been some people who've been investigated and then

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a recommendation that they be prosecuted and then the re and the

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prosecutions failed quite miserably.

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And, um, that.

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There's going to be no perfect system.

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There, that's a pretty good segue though, because as part of my white

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collar crime and corruption unit, I came across this reading that was,

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uh, it's 2016, but here are some good suggestions to kind of hone and finesse.

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ICAC.

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So, one of them is, uh, the Commonwealth should appoint, this is for federal

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level, but they could be applied anywhere, the Commonwealth should appoint an

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independent parliamentary ethics officer.

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The Commonwealth should appoint an An ethics officer, so somebody you can

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go to, to talk in confidence about certain situations or particular

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potential conflicts of interest.

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Instead of an ICAC?

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No, as well as.

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So imagine Gladys has found herself in love, right?

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She's also looking at, seriously looking at giving Wagga Wagga five million

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dollars for Whatever the camp was, and she actually has somewhere to go to hash

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this out where it won't be used against her later, and she can actually discuss

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the ethics and what she should do, and the ethics guy or girl might say, you

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should disclose that straight away, and you should absolutely step away from this.

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That makes sense.

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That makes sense, right?

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So if you actually are serious about the injustice Gladys has faced, then these

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are the types of things you put in place.

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You have structures because what we're finding is that politicians

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aren't necessarily exemplary humans.

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They are just humans.

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Yes.

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So the other suggestions were a handbook for not just public servants,

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but for the general public, which I think would be important too.

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Because I think that part of all of this media stuff is they're

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actually mirroring public sentiment, which they're seeing on Twitter.

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Yes.

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Right?

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And that's partly because a lot of the general public aren't paying a high

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level of interest into the goings on.

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So then they're all shocked and surprised that Gladys has to go.

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Do you know what I mean?

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Some training.

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I like this.

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Yeah.

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And then finally, All of the existing major integrity institutions

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must be given budgetary security.

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So you know how we discussed that, uh, Gladys started taking

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the funding ah, from icac?

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Yes, yes.

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So, um, we've used the example here of defunding, defunding of the

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office of the Australian Information Commissioner after the Senate refused

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to pass legislation abolishing it.

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So they just cut the funding instead of pass legislation.

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So what we should put in place is they're given budgetary security

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and only the appropriations can be adjusted by parliament.

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So it'd be three structures we could put in place to make the system fairer.

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Yes, that's good.

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So that was, that came out of your course as a, as what,

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who came up with these ideas?

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I'd say, um, The Mandarin's free daily newsletter.

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I'm a bit concerned of the source, but.

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Now I like the idea of training and I like the idea of somebody you can go to.

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Like, for example, with the law society, they said, you know, if

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you have an ethical issue, we have someone you can talk to and, um,

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just bounce an idea off or whatever, and it won't be held against you.

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A little bit like the seal of the confessional operating in this case.

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Like.

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You know, you can confide in somebody and say, um, I better not say this in

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the Sydney Morning Herald, but Yes, yes.

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I can remember one.

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They gave an example of this solicitor who was about to enter into a romantic

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relationship with a client, and he was seeking Advice and and they joked

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that by the tone and and urgency in his voice It seemed like it was a very

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urgent response that he was requiring

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He was on a promise

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That's right Yes, that makes sense.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, so I I like that.

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Um, let's see if they take it up.

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So the comparisons though with um Berjiklian and Scott Morrison

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is we don't have a federal ICAC.

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Indeed.

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Yes You know why we don't.

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Yes, because they don't want to pass it.

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They're scared of what they'll find.

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Well, well, according to this tweet from Aaron Dodd, it was because

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Scott Morrison, um, He said, you know, I talked to Jenny about this.

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She has a way of really clarifying things and she said, Why would

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you create a federal ICAC?

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I don't want to be a prison wife.

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So that might be why, you know, against Jen's recommendation.

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So even someone like Tanya Plibersek said, Thanks, Gladys,

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for your hard work managing COVID and thank you for your service.

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We don't need a Labor opposition.

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That can only be what I said about them just gleaning public sentiment

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and just cowering underneath it.

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So, um, so anyway, um, what else did we have?

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Well, I think you missed the shovel.

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Oh, did I miss the shovel one?

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Yes.

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Oh yeah, so just been catching up on the latest analysis in the media

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and got to tell you, This person who forced Gladys Berejiklian to have a

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relationship with a corrupt politician, hide it from the public, give out dodgy

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government grants, and then resign sounds like a nasty piece of work.

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Honestly, the Shovel Batuta Advocate sum up these issues that we face.

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In 10 to 20 words, so well, so often, compared to major media outlets.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Mm hmm.

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Yeah, yeah.

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So, um, what do we have here, um, uh, The Spectator, for example,

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said, Friday's taking down of Gladys Berejiklian by the New South Wales.

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ICAC is a political hit job.

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Not your typical party political hit, but a deliberate calculated decapitation

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of the New South Wales government by an unelected body determined to prove

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it's bigger than any mere politician.

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In moving against an elected Premier, doing her damnedest to steer her state

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through its biggest crisis since the war, ICAC decided its narrow agenda,

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fighting corruption, and it's outweighed profound state and national interests.

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All said with a straight face.

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Yeah, so, um, um, Essential Poll came out with some stuff today and it said,

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um, to what extent would you support or oppose the establishment of a,

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sort of, basically a federal ICAC?

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And total support, 78%.

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Total oppose, 11%.

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And that's been consistent for a number of years that they've done the poll.

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Um, in terms of age groups and sex, um, uh, it's a large majority of all

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demographics would support a federal ICAC.

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Um, stronger support amongst those aged over 55 and Greens voters, and no

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surprise that Coalition voters were the most likely to oppose a federal ICAC.

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So even amongst the, let's see, the Coalition supporters, It was still 77

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percent in favour and 13 percent against.

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It's extremely high, so, um Must be hard showing your face at the moment

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being a Liberal supporter, surely.

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Surely even they must be thinking, it is time to clean this up.

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Oh, I was just saying, Labor's just as bad.

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Seriously, that's what that's saying.

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It's true, they are.

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It's the 9 percent of Greens voters who oppose it I'm wondering about.

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Yeah.

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Thinking about Gladys Berejiklian's resignation, which is closer to your view?

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The first is it's maybe more supportive of a federal ICAC.

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And the other one is it's made me less supportive of a federal ICAC.

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And, um, 47 percent say that the treatment of GLADIS makes them

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more supportive of a federal ICAC.

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And 21 percent say the treatment of GLADIS makes them less

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supportive of a federal ICAC.

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Meaning, She was so hard done by, they feel that they don't want that

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to happen in the federal sphere?

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Come on!

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One other, uh, possible explanation is the optics.

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So, I mean, she normally is not unkempt, and the day she came out and announced

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it, she did look very like a victim.

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Yes.

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You know, whereas a man might have faced it with some, you know, stoicism Could

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be some gender socialization at play.

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She was pretty stoic though.

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Drunken?

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Yeah, yeah.

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She didn't Holding back tears?

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No, she didn't look They didn't look Her eyes didn't look moist to me.

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She's a hard nut, I reckon.

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Anyway, that might be a possible explanation for the Yeah, the

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telling thing in that last one actually is the unsure 32%.

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That just means a lot of people have no idea about any of it.

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What's interesting is that 54 percent of men More supportive,

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but only 40 percent of women.

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Right.

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So they obviously feel that she's hard done by, I think.

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Yes.

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That's right.

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So, this resignation of Gladys, correct, made women not as strong

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in their support of a federal ICAC.

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There we go.

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Right, um, so, our new leader, well, the new leader for New South Wales.

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The good news for New South Wales.

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Rub your hands together, you've got a brand new Premier.

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And doesn't he look good?

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Dominic Perretier.

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All of our Premiers are Palaszczuk, Perretier.

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When you've got an awkward name, just add an A at the end of it.

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Shay?

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I was going to say, old owner's name doesn't spell Shay.

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Ray.

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Yeah.

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So, there was a photo of him, because of the, uh, sort of acceleration of the

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Freedom Day that he brought forward, um, him and a few of his colleagues

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standing in a bar having a beer.

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And, uh, it's a very blokey photo.

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scene and if you convert it to black and white it looks very 1950s and

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you know, state of the art sailings just come in and so I think New South

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Wales have moved their clocks forward an hour and backwards 40 years.

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Yes.

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That's the way it looks to me.

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So I mean people joke about Queensland being full of hicks and all the rest

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of it and And, New South Wales, when I look at this photo and your leader.

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Hey, we got VAD before New South Wales.

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Yes, indeed.

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So, uh, not a good look, New South Wales.

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No.

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Pull your fingers up.

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Pull your fingers out.

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Pull your socks up.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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So, what we've got, um, poor New South Wales, they've got a

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Pentecostal Prime Minister and a hardline right wing Catholic Premier.

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But not Opus D.

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Well, not openly and not admitting to it, but he was brought up in a

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school which was Which was Opus Dei.

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Yes.

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And he would have had a lot of spiritual teaching from Opus Dei ministers.

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And, uh, so, so no, he's not, you couldn't say he's Opus Dei, but

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they're a very secretive bunch.

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They are.

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and It's one of those ones where, of course, you're going to deny you're

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over stoked, because that's the whole point of being over stoked.

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So what we're saying is he's not a universally Unitarian.

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He's not what?

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Universally Unitarian.

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Um.

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So in America, when you're an atheist, but you can't be an

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atheist, you have to go to a church.

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Ah, okay.

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It's the church you go to.

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Oh, right.

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Okay.

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Yep.

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So who knows, but he's got some views which we'll come to, which, Um, are quite

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conservative in terms of social things.

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And he's also got some economic views that are just so neoliberal.

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It's probably the most worrying thing about this guy.

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So, let's talk about, um He's willing to sacrifice a few New South Wales

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people on the altar of, um Pubs.

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Yeah, yes.

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Of the economy.

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Yes.

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Indeed.

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Yep.

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So, um, let's have a look at some of the things that he has said, so,

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so he's definitely a member of the conservative right wing faction of

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the Liberal Party, uh, he opposed the marriage equality, uh, bills.

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He opposed A bill requiring priests to disclose child sexual abuse.

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He voted against the introduction of safe exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.

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He voted against abortion decriminalization.

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Wants to stop welfare payments to women fleeing domestic violence, as this

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allegedly contributes to rising divorce rates in single parents families.

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He did a shoddy job managing the iCare programs, which

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cost NSW 3 billion, left it.

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Workers without compensation.

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He blames the welfare system for declining birth rates and family

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breakdown because, uh, if you've got a welfare system, you don't need kids

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to look after you in your old age.

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Quite literally, that's the thinking there.

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Uh, yeah, there's no incentive.

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Stated, quote, there's no incentive to have children if the state will

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take care of you in your old age.

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He, of course, has six kids and he's one of them.

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Um, well, with any luck, they'll desert him in his old age.

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Right.

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That's right.

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You need to rely on the welfare state.

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And he praised Donald Trump's election saying it was a victory of people who

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have been taken for granted by the elites.

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None of that looks good.

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No.

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Taken for granted by the elites like Donald Trump?

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Mm hmm.

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Yeah.

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New South Wales, how did you vote this guy in?

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Oh wait, you didn't.

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It just happens, doesn't it?

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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Ah.

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Roman says, I'm wondering whether the assisted dying legislation in New

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South Wales has any chance of getting through with the new leadership.

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Apparently he has said it's going to be a conscience vote.

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Who knows?

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Some people have suggested he's Is that like the conscience vote that

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we had on abortion up in Queensland?

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Yes, I wonder where if he Actually did exercise that vote

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according to your conscience.

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You'll get kicked out of the party.

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Yes, who knows?

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Yeah, who knows how that will go.

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Interesting one.

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Didn't he need an independent support to form government?

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And that's why he's even I don't know.

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I think they're running a minority government there.

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I'm not sure.

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But, um, some things I've read, people have said, look,

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he's toned down the social.

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Moral issues a little bit in recent times, they felt.

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Um, but I also heard that Gladys fell on her own sword so that, um, effectively

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the Nationals wouldn't take over.

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Right.

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Because if she was standing aside Ah, then the Deputy Barilaro Right.

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Would be Premier.

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Yeah.

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Whereas if she resigned, a Liberal got to take.

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Premier the, yeah, the premier shape.

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Oh, okay.

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Hmm.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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So, so it was a smart, a political move rather than, right.

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Okay.

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Um, yeah.

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Maybe we've got it wrong.

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I mean, maybe it's not so bad after all.

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Rowan Dean in the Spectator says it's not often these days that somebody

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who is a conservative, a Christian and a contributor to this magazine.

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Ends up as one of the most powerful leaders in the country.

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So the news that Dominic Perrottet is now Premier of Australia's Premier State is

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to be warmly welcomed by all who value traditionalism, reason and freedom.

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Pop out the bubbly, and if it's Dom Perignon, so much the better.

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Dom Perignon for Dom Perrottet.

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Yes, so clever.

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Yeah, so lots of people, of course, have been talking about his Catholic faith.

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End.

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what that means to the decisions he'll make as Premier.

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And he's obviously picked up a lot of moral ideas from his Catholic faith,

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one would have thought, and he's going to be making decisions, one would have

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thought, based on his Catholic faith.

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Catholic faith.

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Some people in the religious groups are appalled that people are questioning and

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are concerned about this man's faith as if it's got nothing to do with his job.

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He's premier of a state.

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He's, he is the guy who runs the ship in terms of lawmaking, laws that are

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basically about morals quite often.

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He's not just a car park attendant, in which case you're right, if he

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was, then his religion would be irrelevant, but given the decisions

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he's having to make, it's entirely relevant to know what his religion is,

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because you get an idea of how he'll make his decisions based on that.

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So, so is religious belief relevant?

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And there was a really interesting article by Chris Stephenson Who is a sort

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of a pro secular writer in Queensland.

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I've never met her.

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I hope to meet her at some stage.

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Have you ever met her, Kristen?

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Yeah.

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So, um, she tells an interesting story which sort of exhibits why this is

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important, uh, religious belief in terms of people who are not just decision

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makers, but also just commentators.

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So there's a Melbourne emergency doctor, Stephen Parnas, who has

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become something of a social media celebrity during the COVID 19 pandemic.

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So he's been tweeting about his direct experience with COVID patients and

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encouraging people to get vaccinated.

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So he's an emergency doctor, Stephen Parnas.

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And this week, uh, our symbolic hero of the pandemic, Was told he was just

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plain wrong about the subject of faith and power, and he spat the dummy.

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So, uh, this guy, Dr.

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Parnas, um, Vented his frustration that people were making an issue of

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peritaze devout Catholicism, and Parnas tweeted, I can't believe we're back here!

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Assess any MP on their politics and policies rather than

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in their religious beliefs.

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So, there's a, uh, researcher, Ronnie Salt, was quick to respond and say, Oh,

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dear listener, swear words coming up, keep the kids out of this, on this episode.

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Um, so Ronnie Salt says, How fucking dare you?

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How dare you sit up there on your privileged hill of male

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superiority and tell women not to discuss powerful men's religion?

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How fucking dare you?

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Powerful religious men use their religion to undermine

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the rights of women every day.

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Good point.

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Parnas dug in.

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He said, uh, it was an ad hominem attack.

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He referred to the tsunami of responses he'd got from women,

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and then in a fit of pique, he announced his departure from Twitter.

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Time to leave this cesspit behind for a while.

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So And the classic response to that is, this is not an airport, you don't

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need to announce your departure.

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That's it.

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That's it.

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Don't let the door hit you on the bum as you leave.

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So, Chris Stevenson says, Parnas no doubt was also upset by my

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contribution to the discussion, because she had Tweeted to him, it seems.

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Why didn't you disclose the fact you were arguing as a fellow committed Catholic?

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Why don't you disclose this when you're arguing against Voluntary Assisted Dying?

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It matters because truth is, no matter what safeguards were in

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place, nor how effective, you'd still oppose it because of your faith.

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Yeah.

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So, because you have hardline faith, it's coloured your thinking on this issue.

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You should have disclosed.

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Your Catholicism, Mr Parnas, about these issues.

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I don't see people commenting on Dan Andrews faith.

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I comment on that all the time, and I say Sorry, but you are the rare outlier.

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Because to most people, they don't care what his faith is because it

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doesn't seem to impact his decisions.

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His decisions are made for the good of the people of Victoria, not the

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good of his follow faith believers.

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So his decisions are actually often contrary to the interests of his faith.

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Correct.

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So, that's okay, because you go, clearly he wasn't influenced by

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his faith, uh, in a way that was contrary to the ultimate decision.

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But where people make a decision in alignment with their faith's

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requirements, then you have a problem.

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As we'll get onto With Perrottet, there's a situation with the running of

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cemeteries in Sydney, where independent public service groups have said, we

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need to amalgamate all these cemeteries and have them run by one organization.

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Guess what?

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The Catholics don't like that.

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Because they lose power and money.

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And also where would they hide the funds when they're being sued by sex abuse

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victims if it isn't in the cemeteries?

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Indeed.

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So, Perrottet has come out very clearly and told his department

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very clearly we want to support the Catholics position when it

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comes to the running of cemeteries.

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So he's making a decision that will favour the Catholic Church.

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So, it's important we know, um, what's guiding their decision making.

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Exactly.

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Dan Andrews in that case, according to his track record, is actually

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going, well, stuff you Catholic Church, you don't get to run the

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cerem the cemeteries and you miss out.

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And so, um, Uh, his Catholic faith doesn't really come up except to say, gosh,

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he made a decision that was contrary.

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Who's Dan Catholic?

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Uh, no, he's, uh, I don't know what he is.

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He's Christian.

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He's Christian, yeah.

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I don't know that he's Catholic.

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But your, your faith, um, didn't, um, stop you from making a decision contrary

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to the interests of your faith group.

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Well, um, a good example of that was, um, 80 percent of, People support Voluntary

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Assisted Dying, uh, and I would find it hard to believe that he would vote.

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In favor of his electorate rather than in line with his faith.

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Mm-Hmm.

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And yes, and therefore, there is a deciding influence that I think

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the public needs to know about.

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Indeed.

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It's entirely relevant.

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So, um, because it's relevant to the job, because he's making decisions that affect

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the, the church that he's a part of.

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So, um, so anyway, um.

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Let me just get on with this article by Chris Stevenson.

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So, um, so yeah, he had also made comments about Voluntary Assisted Dying.

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So, uh, Chris Stevenson goes on, before Dr.

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Parnas became a Twitter hero, I knew him as a passionate advocate

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against Voluntary Assisted Dying.

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And because I know that most people who oppose Voluntary

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Assisted Dying do so for religious reasons, I had done some research.

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Dr.

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Parnas works at St.

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Vincent's Hospital, a Catholic institution devoted to bringing

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God's love to those in need through the healing ministry of Jesus.

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In 2018, Dr.

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Parnas and his associate, uh, Dr.

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Michael, delivered the rerun Navarium Oration at the

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Australian Catholic University.

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The oration was titled, Widening the Door of Hope, a response to the

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Victorian assisted dying legislation.

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A cradle Catholic, Dr.

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Parnas was educated by Jesuits.

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He remains an active supporter of his alma mater, even sitting

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on the school's foundation board.

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And he's also active in his local Catholic Church.

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So, Chris Stevenson said, I had to go looking for that information.

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When Dr Parnas appears in newspapers, on radio, or in parliamentary briefings,

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or rails against a voluntary assisted dying, he relies on his credibility

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as a doctor, never disclosing that the fundamental reason for his

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opposition is his deep Catholic faith.

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Just so.

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When he suggested that Premier Perrottet should not be judged on

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his religious beliefs, he failed to disclose that he was speaking as a

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fellow Catholic and political activist.

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So, people need to know that.

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Good point, Chris.

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Very good.

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Um, uh, she goes on and I think there's other examples that she

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gave in relation to somebody else who was talking about, um, um.

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Marriage equality and claimed to be a person of no particular faith, but

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she smelled a rat investigated, and sure enough, they were religious.

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So good article on why we need to know.

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And I think, um, hard to argue, um, and yeah, I've got a link to the article

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about the cemeteries and well, you know, I, I think, um, Uh, we don't need to know

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about um, what businesses politicians are involved in, because obviously

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that's their own personal business and why is it any concern of ours?

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You'd never say that, would you?

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No.

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Yeah, indeed.

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And let's face it, these groups are businesses.

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Yes.

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These church groups are running businesses, and so, you know, He may

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not be a shareholder, because they don't have shares, but he's as good

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as a shareholder in these groups.

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And, um, you remember the dual nationality case with the Catholic Church?

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Mm hmm.

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With a member of dual nationality with the Catholic Church back in the fifties.

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I think it was.

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So do you remember the scandal a couple of years ago about the section of 44

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and whether you are a member of the.

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And so it went to the high court because they said being a member of the Catholic

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faith effectively their allegiance is to a foreign country, which is the Vatican.

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Yes.

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So, back then it was recognised that an allegiance to the Vatican

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was a conflict of interest.

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Did the High Court actually say that?

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It didn't say that, I think, but certainly there was It was worthy

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of going to the High Court about it.

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It was worthy to go, yeah.

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It was raised as a concern back then.

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Yeah.

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So, um, so no, we need to look at his faith and, you know, let's

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see what he does in that regard.

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Now, more worrying, I think, is, um, uh, yep, Alison, we've just done that,

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I'll just leave the comments, keep commenting in there, so Perrottet, uh,

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his, incredibly, I think his neoliberalism is going to be more of a worry than New

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South Wales and his religion, I think.

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Um, so this was from an article on the Saturday paper by Mike second, and, uh,

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Pite is the whole neoliberal package.

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So Green's MP or MLC David s Shoebridge ticks off some of

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the manifestations of this.

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So, according to David s Shoebridge, um, as treasurer ate was completely

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committed to a privatization agenda.

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Albeit rebadged as Asset Recycling, rather than Privatization, Asset Recycling.

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So, Perrottet oversaw the sale of the government's 49 percent stake in the

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WestConnex motorway for 11 billion.

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Uh, prior to that we've seen the sale of electricity distribution and generators.

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Uh, sold the land titles registry, actually Queensland did that as well.

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He's had a highly developed plan to sell off all the state's plantation forests.

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In a billion dollar one off deal, but the terrible Black Summer fires did so

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much damage to the estate it took buyers out of the market, otherwise you would

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have sold the state's plantation forests.

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We don't have enough appreciation of the commons, and that the commons

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belongs to multiple generations.

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You convert the commons into money.

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And blow it on something, you've just robbed future generations.

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Yes, but it gets you elected next time around.

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Who cares about 20 years down the line?

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Yes.

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It's just a, this pillaging of future generations by the current

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generation is not recognized by people.

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And also, I think there's a fairly good argument that privatization

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hasn't shown the benefits that were argued back in the eighties.

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Uh, never does.

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So the whole thing with that, um, disaster with.

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Because they've got to make a profit.

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They have to do everything that the public service would have done

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in terms of provide service, but then make profit on top of that.

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You've got to do more with less.

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Obviously, standards of service deteriorate.

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Well, the argument is that civil service is so inefficient that

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the profit is made from making the thing run more efficiently.

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Yeah, particularly when it comes to monopoly type stuff.

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Electricity, water, these are not things that you put in the hands of private

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enterprise who can then screw you over.

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These things, as a society, we need.

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Right, um, so according to Shoebridge, he's a very aggressive privatiser.

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The only real constraint is that so much has already been sold off

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by labour and liberal governments.

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There's not much left to sell.

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So, um, so yeah, with the public insurer iCare, he got it to operate along more

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private sector market based lines, and he developed a two billion dollar whole.

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During his watch, which saw thousands of injured workers

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inappropriately lose their benefits.

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So, um, so yeah, if there's something to sell off, he will.

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Now, what he also did was, uh, he got the Treasury, the New South Wales

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Treasury, to, um, borrow 10 billion at very low interest rates that

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he just invested in high yielding stocks and other financial assets.

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Which is basically just gambling with taxpayers money.

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Ten billion dollar loan, a cheap interest, and then went and

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bought a few investments with it.

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So Saul Aislake is not impressed.

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I really like Saul Aislake.

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And that's alright.

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Treasury did it, so it's Wow.

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So, um, I really like Saul Eslark.

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He is a good, uh, neutral, uh, economist, I reckon.

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I saw him speak live once at a lunch, and I just came away from it thinking,

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Wow, is that guy in charge of his brief?

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Like, he He is a smart guy, Saul Eslake.

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When's the last time you had that experience when you

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watched a politician talk?

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Oh, Saul Eslake's not a politician.

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I know.

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We have so many great people in Australia, hardly any of them seem to be in politics.

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The last time I was impressed by a politician for just being

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super bright on something.

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Yeah.

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You know, sometimes Malcolm Turnbull said things.

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But he never put it into action, really.

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But after Tony Abbott, when Malcolm Turnbull came in, it was like,

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Oh, finally, we've got somebody in charge here who's not embarrassed.

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He's not embarrassing.

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And he spoke and you thought that all makes perfect sense.

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But of course, what subsequently happened in action didn't.

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Neat.

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The promises.

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I remember thinking that, um, the best Republican, um, president

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the US has had in years, Right.

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Um, was Obama.

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Yes.

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He was all words.

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Very eloquent.

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He was incredibly eloquent.

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It's true.

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But he was a right wing politician.

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Yes.

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Indeed.

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Indeed.

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So in terms of one in power who who's impressed as being totally over their

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brief Let me think about that one.

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Okay, can you think of one?

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Not lately.

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No Penny Wang.

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I don't know about yeah, Penny Wang.

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Maybe that seemed to be across her Portfolio, I don't know about impressed.

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Mmm, but certainly Um, so what else has, uh, Saul Eslake Peritei?

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Um, he says that's a risky thing to do.

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Although one thing he's looking at doing is, um, What'd you go like Iceland then?

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Uh, what about Iceland?

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Oh, they put all their money in No, sorry, it was the UK.

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Councils that have put all their money into the Icelandic banks that went, right,

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collapsed during the financial crisis.

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Yes.

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But the Icelandic people actually were the only ones on the planet who really took

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on the managers in charge of those banks.

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Yes.

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And, and punished them.

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Really said we're not gonna let that happen again.

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So, yeah.

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But, but it was, you know, government's gambling with money.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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Anyway, uh, so Saul Eslake says that's dangerous, although, um, Perrottet

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wants to change the GST formula.

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He says Western Australia is grossly overpaid, and Saul Eslake says,

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fair enough, they are, and that's a good point by Perrottet, so, um, so

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he says, yep, that's a good point.

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Also, um, what else does Perrottet want to do is, uh, currently, there's

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a lot of stamp duty on land transfers.

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And he's saying we should get rid of the stamp duty on land transfers and instead

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put an annual land tax on everybody, including dwellings that you own.

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So rather than collecting tax on the transfer of property, just

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collect it on owning property.

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Makes sense?

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Yeah, apparently.

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Um, like rates, but a government rather than a, a state government bill

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rather than a local government bill.

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Yes.

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Land tax.

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There's currently land tax in Queensland and other states, but you have to have

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a significant amount of property that is not principal place of residence

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when you start getting a land tax bill.

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Right.

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Happy days when you can get a land tax bill, because you,

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because you're doing all right.

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Unless you're the federal government.

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Yes.

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So, um, Because they don't get any of that.

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No, no, other way around, um, a friend of mine is up near the new army base,

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or the extension of the army base up in Rockhampton, and apparently there's a

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whole load of farms have been resumed.

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Right.

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To extend the army base.

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Right.

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And the local shire has lost two million dollars of rates a year.

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Of course.

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Because it's now owned by the federal government who won't pay rates.

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Yes, that's it.

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Yes.

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There we go.

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So it was a huge hole in the budget.

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Mm hmm.

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Interesting.

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Um, Also, um, so yeah, Salt Lake says nearly all economists

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agree that's a good idea.

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Get rid of the transactional stamp duty, putting in a annual land tax.

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I thought there was a talk of putting in, um, stamp duty on possibly share trading

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to try and stop speculative trading.

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Oh, lots of people put it up as a good idea, but I've never

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heard any government actually.

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Right.

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But I mean, was there a reason that land You have stamped easy

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on land was for a similar reason.

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I don't know how it came about, it was just easier.

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I don't know the historic, the history of it.

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Right.

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Yeah, yeah, I don't know.

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Shares probably did have some sort of transfer tax at some point, but not sure.

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And of course the other reason not to is Because stamp duty is

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paid when you have cash in hand.

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Yes.

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Whereas a land tax, you may actually be asset rich and cash poor.

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Yes, that's right.

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It's a risky bold move if he does it.

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So, but he seems to be a bit of a risk taker.

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I mean, he's happy to take a risk with the state's finances on that loan, so.

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Uh, Interesting character.

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Not his money.

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So, yeah.

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Well, this is the thing, isn't it?

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Um, so, voluntary assisted dying.

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There's an independent Alex Greenwich.

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Greenwich?

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Greenwich?

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Greenwich.

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Greenwich.

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He's going to put up a bill and Parataya said it's going to be a conscience vote.

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So that will be interesting to see how that all pans out.

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By the way, uh, voluntary assisted dying in Victoria.

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How's it been going?

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And Um, it's been in effect for more than three years in Victoria, and there's a

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report from Victoria's Voluntary Assisted Dying Review Board, and it says during

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that time, 836 people have been assessed as eligible for Voluntary Assisted Dying,

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uh, 674 permit applications were made.

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Um, 597 permits were issued.

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Not sure what the difference is there.

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Uh, the big important number is 331 people have died from taking the

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prescribed medications in Victoria.

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Not a huge number, but kind of what you'd expect really.

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Yeah.

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One every three days.

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So, um, so, there we go.

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Um, Dan Andrews is going to bring in secular qualified mental

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health practitioners in every government secondary school as

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opposed to chaplains who have to be from a religious organization.

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Good on you, Dan Andrews.

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Um, did you see the story about the, um, the artist, um, Jens Harning,

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um, so he's a Danish artist.

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Just a little light change of pace here, dear listener, from

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all this depressing stuff.

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This is somebody fighting back the system.

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So, um, so Harning created, uh, two artworks in 2007 and 2011, where he

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affixed bank notes onto a canvas as a commentary on the average incomes in

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Denmark and Austria respectively in the Konsten Museum of Modern Art loved them.

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And I offered them in the equivalent.

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Uh, of 3, 900 to remake both of those, um, uh, canvases.

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So they provided him with 115, 000 worth of cash to put on the

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canvas, and they were going to pay him basically 3, 900 for his fee.

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And when they unwrapped the canvases, they were met with two completely blank

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canvases titled, Take the Money and Run.

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So the, uh, the art gallery or whatever it is, um, Museum of Modern Art, uh, they're

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suing him now, but he doesn't care.

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He's not paying it back.

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He said, The work is that I have, I have taken their money.

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Or the word is.

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I encourage other people who've been working conditions as

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miserable as mine to do the same.

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If they're sitting in some shitty job and not getting paid.

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And, uh, actually being asked to pay money to go to work, uh,

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grab what you can and beat it, so That would be tough as an artist.

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It's like, man, you're only paying me 3, 900, I've got to do all this stuff,

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blah, blah, blah, like you Meanwhile, you're happy to give me 115, 000.

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The dollars to stick on the bloody canvas.

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You would actually have the money in your hand and look at the

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canvas and go, what am I doing?

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New idea.

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Take the money and run.

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Yes.

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And you keep an eye on the messages for me, Joe.

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Um, if you can, Alison and Bronwyn are having a good chat in there.

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So, um, uh, oh, Alison says, I don't think Dan Andrews announcement

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about secular professionals will affect chaplaincy at all.

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I'm sure it's a totally separate thing.

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Um, Roman thinks it's being offered as an alternative.

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Anyway, we'll get further details on that as they come to hand.

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Um, lots of different people saying goodbye to Facebook.

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So Reason Australia was, did an article about Fiona Patton, who

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basically said, there's just too much nasty commentary that it totally

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spoils the page, and too hard to deal with, and so we're just out of here.

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No point having a Facebook page.

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Nope.

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Find some other way of dealing with it.

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Yep.

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That's not surprising.

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No, it does seem to be getting pretty ugly.

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There's been no resolution yet of the whole thing with people making defamatory

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comments that the owner of a page Facebook took themselves down for a while, so

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Facebook took themselves down, right, yes.

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Solved that problem.

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Yes, um, but the government does recognize that it's up to them to change the law

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on that one, so they're trying to get the state To agree to something on that.

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So, uh, that's going to be a legislative solution to that one.

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Um, here's stories of people going missing and searchers

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are sent out looking for them.

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So, um, there was this guy in Turkey who went missing.

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I've heard about that, yeah.

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And, um, uh, He'd been drinking with some friends and he wandered into a

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forest and when he failed to return, uh, Well, he's out in the forest

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and he's going, Jesus, I'm lost.

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He sees this group of people walking along and he says, I'll just, I'll

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just tag along with these guys and eventually I'll be led to, you

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know, out of this goddamn forest.

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And he's walking along with them for about half an hour or so.

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Then they start calling out his name.

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He says, I'm here.

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What?

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And they were a search party looking for him.

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I actually have a similar story.

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Really?

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Yeah, yeah, we went to a beach on Jersey, which was down the side of a cliff.

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And we came back and we picked up the car in the car park on the main beach.

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Towards the end of the afternoon and we saw the lifeboat go out and we went

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down to have a chat with them and they said, Oh, yeah, apparently there's a

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family stuck in the cove around there and the tides coming in and we're

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really worried about them and we go.

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That was us.

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We climbed up the side of the glove.

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There's a footpath up the side of the glove.

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At least you didn't join the search party in a boat.

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I wept with laughter when I saw that.

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And then you're in the boat.

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Joe!

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What?

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Oh, it's me you're looking for.

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Ah, that would have been funny.

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Um, Jessica Rowe.

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So.

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She has a podcast.

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I think it was a podcast.

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I mean, who doesn't have a podcast it!

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That's right.

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When you tell people you're on a podcast, they go, Eh, everyone is.

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Well, I'm lucky.

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I seem to be an age demographic where it's still pretty rare.

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So yeah, people are impressed because you hang out with old people, old white men.

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I usually leave that part out.

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Anyway, she had a podcast and she had, um, well, she's obviously tried to appeal

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to a left ish type of audience, I think.

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And she made the mistake of inviting Pauline Hanson onto the show and

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doing a bit of a soft interview, I think, because Pauline talks of love,

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raising kids and why she keeps going.

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But a lot of people tweeted back at her saying, what the hell are you doing

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giving this woman a platform, essentially?

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And she then contacted, uh, her bosses and said, can we drop

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that podcast and delete it?

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Cause I've felt the heat from all this.

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So what do you reckon, Shay?

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Is that?

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Is that, uh, cancelling or is it anything to be concerned about or do you have

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any thoughts on, on her succumbing to the backlash from the community?

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No, I just think, um, Grace Tame lands her communication with a real clang.

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Yeah.

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And I just think she's super, super powerful.

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And I don't remember the exact quote.

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But it came out almost immediately after Rose and it was just like, sometimes when

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Grace talks it, even for me, who I seem to like, think I'm pretty up to date,

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it's like being slapped across the face.

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It's so obviously, you know, impactful that Jessica Rowe was doing this.

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So I think Jessica Rowe bowed to pressure, fine.

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She should have maybe prepared for some backlash.

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You're gonna have Pauline Hanson.

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Like, Pauline Hanson's made a career out of being controversial.

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It was never just gonna slide through, was it?

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I think it's important not to see people with opposing political views.

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As monsters, which is what happens when you isolate them when you don't hear them.

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And in some ways, it is important to realize that these are real people

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who might be misguided, um, but still think they are doing the right thing.

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Um, I, I think it becomes a lot easier to come to bipartisan agreement.

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And the problem is we are too divided.

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We see the other side as the other.

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Mm hmm.

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And we don't sit down and talk to them.

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Mm hmm I guess the counter to that would be that Pauline Hanson

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has plenty of opportunity to Demonstrate to people her humanity.

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So if she hasn't managed to do that in the forums that are offered to her

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already Why take up space on a forum?

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Because if she's showing it in a forum, it's not necessarily going to

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be a right wing forum that the left leaning people aren't going to hear.

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Okay.

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This to me is a little bit like, um, George W.

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Bush.

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Mm hmm.

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Has been on a lot of programs post his presidency where they've gone soft on him.

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And there's been almost a rehabilitation of George W.

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And, uh, he's a nice guy, he's an ex president, and we'll

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forget all that stuff about him.

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The Middle East, and, and just, uh, going soft on him,

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I, I, I sort of think why he's had his chance to put his views out there.

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Um, Grace Tain, let's see what she said.

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She said, This is how discrimination and hate is suddenly enabled and normalized.

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Everyone's entitled to their own view, but not all views should be

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valorized by promoting their source.

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Falling doesn't need to be heard, but those who's oppressing, she's

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both driven and reinforced, do.

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So, that was, um, that was Tame.

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What's her first name?

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I've got her first name, so.

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Isn't it Grace Tame?

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Grace Tame.

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So,

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uh, from Sean McAuliffe, he says, Isn't this a story about

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the triumph of free speech?

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Ro asks the questions she wants, Hanson gives the answers she wants, people get

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to rail against it, being a podcast, Ro gets to change her mind and we

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get to express our opinion about it.

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I suppose.

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It's working!

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Yeah!

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Like, at the end of the day, uh, Ro's free to make a decision and she's also

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free to decide, shit, that didn't work with my audience, I'm gonna pull it.

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The audience is free to say, that's a really shitty interview, and if you want

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us to listen to your interviews in future, don't put this shitty interview stuff on,

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and, uh, Pauline gets to say, Goddamnit.

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Was it her audience, or was it a wider public?

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Well Or political commentators?

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Who will know?

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I guess she saw the comments from people she perceived as her audience.

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Was she clear about the aim of having her on?

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What's the aim of Jessica Rowe's podcast?

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Have constructive conversations?

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Or talk about cooking or?

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I don't know exactly.

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But maybe she doesn't either.

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Yeah.

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Um, uh, well, in her tweet, telling people about her interview with Pauline

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Hanson, she says, um, um, let's see.

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So didn't talk anything about her life in politics, but delving into

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her life outside of parliament.

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And she talks, love raising kids and why she keeps going.

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So, it's basically saying, a look at the human side rather than the

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political side of Pauline Hanson.

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I mean, I think it's as important as the book, The Banality of Evil.

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Which is literally a history of the guy who ran the train lines.

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In the Second World War.

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Was it Hess or something like that?

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No, no, no.

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It was some civil servant who just ran the trains.

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Right.

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The problem was the trains were full of Jews going to the concentration camp.

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Right.

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And it was how banal this job was.

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And yet this man literally transported or was, yeah, involved in transporting

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millions of people to their deaths.

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Right.

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Was that when he was in the dock at the Hague or whatever it was?

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I thought that was what the banality of evil was about, was about that one of

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the key, Goring or Hess or somebody No, no, no, I Was such an ordinary looking

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character, banal, and was so evil.

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Just looking at the man in the witness box, he just looked like Some dull

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accountant, and it seemed incongruous that, um, he was something else.

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So, yeah.

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Anyway, Anyone in the chat room have an opinion on that one?

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Let us know.

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I kind of agree with Sean McCarth on this one.

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Free speech, people can say stuff, people can complain about what people

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say, and people can make decisions, and um, I really personally think

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Pauline Hanson gets enough chance to,

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Show her softer side on any number of times soon.

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Um, Netball.

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I don't think we've spoken about netball much on this podcast over the years.

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Netball, here's my theory on netball.

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If you were to invent netball today, you'd never get off first base.

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Because creating a sport played on a hard ground, where people have to stop within

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one step, is just It's just destined to create knee and ankle issues for

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people, like it's, um, not a good idea.

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So, anyway, Netball Queensland has been accused of turning, uh, its

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own championships into a farce.

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You want to tell me about Penalty of Evil?

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No, uh, no.

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Oh yeah, sorry, it's saying it's Eichmann in Jerusalem.

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Oh right, okay.

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So it was a Jewish, uh, reporter.

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Right.

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Who covered the trials.

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Yeah, yep.

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And essentially he was like an accountant and seemed quite ordinary.

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Well, and saying the fact that he couldn't even string a sentence together.

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Yes.

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And couldn't believe that this was the evil architect of destruction.

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Yes.

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Well, there's a lot, you know, Pauline Hanson can hardly

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string a sentence together.

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The analogy's starting to work.

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I'm starting to see the analogy here, Joe.

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I'm starting to see it.

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Okay, back to the netball.

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So, um, Netball Queensland accused of turning its own

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championships into a farce.

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Essentially, they allowed an under 17 all boys team to compete.

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In the Under 18s Championship, and the boys essentially thrashed them,

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and the crowd got quite irate watching it, and nasty comments made from the

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side, and, um, They don't have a state championship for boys due to player

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numbers, so they won their seven games by an average of 29 goals, and the closest

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contest came in the semifinals when they beat the opposition by 23 goals.

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So, yeah.

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Shay, any thoughts as a representative of women's netball?

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Yeah, well, uh, I've been this height, which for the listeners is 172 centimeters

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since I was about 13, and I've got very broad shoulders, so My parents had hoped

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I'd be a swimmer, but I wasn't a swimmer.

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So netball it was, so I was goal attack for like many years

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representative and absolutely my knees and ankles are kaput as a result.

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And um, I think the obvious solution is mixed netball.

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There was a boys team played against my daughter, um, under 14s, I think.

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Right.

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A couple of years ago.

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Same age, signed to 14 boys against 7.

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Yeah.

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Um, and they play an incredibly different game.

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Yes.

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They, uh, it's just watching them, having watched girls play time and

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time again, to watch an all boys team on the court was so different.

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Yeah.

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Um, they, Over a third, those types of rules, they, they, they were just, I

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don't know, they, they were more physical.

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Yeah.

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And, and not pushing each other because it's a no contact, but, um,

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they, they were more aggressive in the way that they went for the ball.

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Um, they just played a very different game.

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Mm.

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And it is, I don't know what the answer is because obviously they have to

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be able and maybe as you say, mixed.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, well certainly, uh, I always played with girls until I was 17

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or 18 and then did Mixnet Ball.

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And that was a hoot, you know, and it did actually sort of balance

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the kind of physicality versus the, you know, um, practice technique

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of women who'd played for years.

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It seems like the obvious thing, having one boys team play against the girls.

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I'm not sure that that is, you know, striving for equality.

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Yeah.

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I, I think solutions could be.

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Well, at least the girls team who made the final should have been declared the

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netball champions for that year, like, should have got the trophy, perhaps.

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Or, what they should do is maybe say to boys, You know, drop down three years.

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Like you have to be under 15 boys against under 18 girls or something,

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or whatever level you need to go down to make it a fairer contest.

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Obviously didn't do that in this case.

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Um, and really, or let the boys compete, but say, well, you don't

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get to go into the final cause you can compete in this, but.

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Um, uh, but you don't get to go into the finals, I don't know, but, um, maybe

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just make him young enough so that it evens it up, but that was just crazy.

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That's just crazy.

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Do you think it'd still be appealing to boys with all

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those extra limitations though?

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Well, if, if, if it's only, well, it's, it's hardly appealing

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if you're flogging people.

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That must be a bit tough.

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It's not, it's actually no fun in sport to be.

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You know, I've played competitive squash for years, and if you're in

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the wrong grade and you're killing everybody, there's no fun in that either.

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So you want, and that's what they should learn.

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So, um.

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Yeah, I know that the professional teams play against men in their training.

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Ah.

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So the Firebirds and that will play against some men's

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teams in their training.

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Hmm.

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Hmm.

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So, there we go.

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We learn something every day.

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I didn't know that you were a netballer.

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Yes.

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And I'm happy that my theory on knees and ankles stood up.

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It's perfect.

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Right.

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I've also got a theory about netball referees.

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Are they called referees or umpires?

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Either is fine.

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They're really wannabe Nazis.

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Yeah, I never made a good umpire.

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I never played I was all like, ah, let it go.

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Oh, was it a step?

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Yeah, and particularly you see netball.

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I've never played mixed netball, but I did, I've watched a little bit with my

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kids at different times, so this is cool.

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Where there's guys who have obviously never played netball before, and they're

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in a mixed team, and they've got that ungainliness about them, the umpire

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will pull them up on a stepping core that just isn't there, because they just

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don't like the look of this ungainly guy.

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And they just love blowing that whistle.

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They're shockers.

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They love blowing the whistle.

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Yes.

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I think they take it upon themselves to be fair, like, especially for

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the taller, leaner ones, because even though they are standing 1.

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5 metres or whatever, 3 feet.

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They look like they're up nice and close, so just, yeah, they'll take

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it upon themselves to take their job very seriously as umpires.

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Yeah, if I had a son who was looking to start a relationship with a

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netball umpire, I'd be very worried.

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I'd be warning him against it.

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Um, in terms of the knees and ankles, hmm.

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I believe it's the sudden stop.

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It's the no, no traveling rule.

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Yes.

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Um, that I heard from a physiologist is actually very, very hard.

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Yes.

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And in fact, in professional netball, they have to learn how

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to stop correctly so that they can stop without doing the damage.

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Um, and it's the kids long term if they don't get that training

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end up with major damage.

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So I've played a bit of Frisbee, so Ultimate Disc Frisbee, and when you're

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running and you catch the Frisbee, you are allowed to take three or four

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minor steps, like just to pull up.

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You don't have to do it.

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Within two steps.

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Like if you're running flat out in a certain direction, you catch the Frisbee.

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You, uh, there's no rule about a precise number of steps

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that you have to pull up in.

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Um, it's just, you try and do it in what is a reasonable amount of pull ups time.

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So.

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I haven't seen that game.

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There you go.

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Yeah.

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So you'll have to look that one up.

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I will.

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So you have to run.

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It's, it's Parallel to each other or kind of like a field.

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It's, it's like, um, how would you describe, people are spread out.

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Yep.

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And so there's no offside, so you can throw the frisbee way forward, um, and

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when somebody catches it, they then throw the frisbee to somebody else way

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forward, and you, and you score like a touchdown in an end zone is how you score.

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Cool.

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Yeah.

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This is a really good game.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Hmm.

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So, um, you catch the frisbee and take three or four or whatever necessary steps

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depending on how fast you've been running.

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Mm hmm.

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Right, um, There was an article, uh, in the Quarterly Essay by Lech Blaine,

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and, um, I've got a bit of an edited extract here, so, um, Uh, it was

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titled The Larrikin Myth, Class and Power, and he says, Scott Morrison, a

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Pentecostal rugby union fan from the eastern suburbs of Sydney, plagiarised

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the identity of men like my father.

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The career politician reinvented himself as ScoMo, a rugby league loving

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everyman from the Sutherland Shire.

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Why would a white collar toff camouflage as working class?

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For power, Australia is divided between cosmopolitans and parochials.

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The cosmopolitans, well educated and affluent, are concentrated in

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Sydney, Canberra and Melbourne.

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Parochials are located on the fringes of cities and in the regions, and are far

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less likely to have a university degree.

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Professor Megan Davis says class is the last taboo.

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Clever progressives buy into so many negative tropes about

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poor and uneducated people.

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And they would do it to no other group of marginalised people.

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And this writer says, My brother John comes from the underclass.

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In 1985, his biological parents were sent to Boggo Road Jail for kidnapping.

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John was placed into foster care with my publican parents in Rosedale,

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on the outskirts of Bundaberg.

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University was never for him, he became an unskilled labourer

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before working as a bartender.

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John beat all the obstacles in life to become a successful car

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salesman and a loving father.

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Nobody in his social circle attended university.

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Unlike our dad's generation of Labor voting larrikins,

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John's vivid lived experience

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John Howard deployed the symbols, values and vernacular of working class

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culture to attract jilted battlers from Labor's blue collar base.

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Scott Morrison won the 2019 election by pretending to be a Howard battler.

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And his brother John says, every human being just wants to be respected, so when

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you come across someone who doesn't judge how you look or talk and who doesn't

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care if you have a university degree.

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It's dead set one of the nicest feelings in the world and, um, says

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here the contempty feels emanating from progressives isn't an anecdotal anomaly.

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At the 2019 election, Labor attracted an average swing of 3.

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78 percent in the 20 seats with the highest percentage

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of university graduates.

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So that was 3.

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78 percent where there's the high percentage of university graduates.

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In the 20 seats with the lowest percentage of university graduates,

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Labor softened an average of 4.

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2 swing against it.

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I've never heard that statistic before.

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No.

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It's a really interesting one.

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Mmm.

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Really interesting.

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I've heard similar coming from the UK.

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Mmm.

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That Labor has become a party of Social justice, um, and not the

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working person, the working man.

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So we've talked about this a lot over the years, but I'd never heard that statistic

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for Australia, about, um, about that.

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Um, there we go.

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The 20 seats were the lowest percentage of university graduates and Labor

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suffered a swing against it, 4.

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2%.

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Interesting.

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That's really what Labor suffered.

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They need to be very aware of that if they're going to win.

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So um, he says here in this quarterly essay, Australia, a

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nation of self proclaimed straight shooters has been hijacked by a

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pack of fabricated lar larrikins and bona fide o bullshit artists.

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I reckon that's right.

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Um, uh, for a quarter of a century, Australia's conservative establishment

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has profited from pitting working class battlers against the inner city elite.

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Coal mines are a threat.

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against universities, larrikins against feminists and gays, patriots against

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aboriginals, muslims and asylum seekers.

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So Howard and Morrison have successfully offered the coalition as the natural

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home for parochials who want to cast a protest vote against the snobbery

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of cosmopolitans and the question is what do progressives do next?

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So lots of food for thought there, no disagreement from me and What

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if they just abandoned workers?

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Well, they did.

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But, like But, I mean, have they?

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I mean, frankly, you can probably, um, thank the unions for these six figure pay

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salaries that the working people or, as this article goes on Historically These

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people that do FIFOs and stuff, yeah?

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Mm.

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And that's been gradually being eroded by this casual contract

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style thing instead of secure work.

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So, if they're really, if they're really clear that they want to vote Liberal, and

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Dominic Perrotais obviously and his, uh, and the federal government of Liberal,

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are not appealing to the women's vote.

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Then maybe that's what Labor does.

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Wouldn't it be great if we had a party that was obviously

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appealing to women's votes?

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Yes, it would be great.

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And aren't we 52 percent of the Australian population?

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So, because Isn't, isn't it a fair, wouldn't it be a gamble?

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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So, so what you're getting on to is the second part of this article from Crikey.

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I'll talk about this and then we'll recycle back to where we are.

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So, the second part from Crikey, so I looked at this article.

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In the quarterly essay and said that, um, the structure of blue

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collar workforce itself has changed with tradies at the vanguard.

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So, over the past 30 years, many tradies have grown increasingly wealthy, likely

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to operate small businesses, likely to own their investment properties.

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So their interests no longer neatly align with collective labour as their

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economic power rivals and sometimes exceeds that of white collar workers.

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So, um, in this Crikey article it says, So should the left

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give up on blue collar blokes?

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Of course not.

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Um, uh, many remain poorly paid, vulnerable to injury,

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dependent on dodgy bosses.

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Um, and winning over some of this cohort is an electoral necessity.

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So, um, so Labor needs to win them over.

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But in 2021, the average union member is a tertiary educated female teacher or nurse.

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And the most economically disadvantaged group in Australian society is

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single moms on welfare thinking.

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The nostalgically to the hard hat and steel-cut boots wearing working man of

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the 20th century warps one sense of who is now the most deserving of political favor.

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So, uh, that sort of catches up with what you were saying.

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Yeah.

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So, um, well just.

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That Perrette picture, with him in the bar, drinking the beer, trying

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to do the scamo, I'm a man of the people, I go to the pub, drinking beer.

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Wouldn't surprise me if it's the first time he's ever been in the pub.

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Like, with six kids, hardline Catholic, workaholic, no doubt, all the rest of it.

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Like, that guy would be Workaholic, because he doesn't want to

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be at home with the six kids.

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Well Uh, so he's looked at that image, like these politicians trying to build

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themselves up as the working man, but, um, it's an interesting conundrum, isn't it?

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That there's this shift where, uh, if you were to look at a well educated

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white collar in a city's suburban, you, you, who's, who's not particularly

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wealthy, you know, yet, you know, then they're probably going to vote Labor.

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Um, once they've accumulated wealth, they'll then swap to the Liberals.

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Yeah.

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Um, and, but yeah, if you look at a roughest guts guy in a fluoro vest, uh,

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You don't know what he's gonna vote, because he could be driving a 150, 000

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Land Cruiser with a boat and a shed and a whole bunch of other things, like, he

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could be doing really well for himself and considers himself a small businessman

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and And the Liberal Party is his home.

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Um, and I don't think Labor's worked out any of this stuff yet.

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The Liberals have worked it out to some extent.

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They've stopped late.

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Give John Howard something.

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Howard stole that.

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Those Howard battlers.

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Yes.

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Howard grabbed them.

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Yeah.

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And Labor's been trying to counter that ever since.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And given that statistic on the last election, Labor's certainly failed to

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connect with that group of I thought, yeah, um, last election, uh, Work Choices

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was the last major win I think they had.

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Yes, yes.

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So, um, so yeah, so that was that.

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Um, so we can't just abandon them.

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We'd need the numbers.

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You've gotta tell a story that resonates with these people.

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So, um, uh, I think the biggest,

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the biggest driver at the moment, the biggest hole that I see.

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is the coalition have a story of mining jobs and Labour and the Greens just do

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not, there's a lot of scaremongering about the loss of, uh, rural jobs.

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And so Labour and the Greens need to come up with a, this is our

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plan for, uh, regional Australia.

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This is what we're going to replace mining with.

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This is the future.

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Jump on board, get on with us, and we will create a new economy that's

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not based on digging shit out of the ground, that is the future.

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Yeah, but people could look at past experience with the auto workers and

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whatever else that we had with, when we had manufacturing or, and And,

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well, we're not going to support the car industry, but there'll be

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other work for you, don't worry.

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And then, there really wasn't the work there.

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But rather than making a promise of, there'll be other work for you,

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don't worry, is This is the work.

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We are going to fund it.

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This is the infrastructure we're going to put in place.

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Because people would be rightfully distrustful and say, you

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abandoned us for globalization.

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Essentially, that's what the Tony Blair, the Third Way, you know, and the Left

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jumped onto globalization and said, Well, we'll re-skill our low-skill people

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and find them other jobs to do coding software and making computer games.

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Mm-Hmm.

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And none of that happened.

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So people are going, well, I want hang on for dear life to this coal job because

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I don't believe you, I don't Yeah.

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Believe you for a second that you're gonna find me an

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alternative solar farm to work on.

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Like, so they, and, and so there's the, I don't trust you about the alternative job.

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And there's also.

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We've mentioned before about, uh, Hillary and the deplorables, where there's this

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looking down the nose of people who are uneducated and have these very provoked,

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uh, parochial views or whatever, and considering them deplorables, so.

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But the same with Brexit, you know, if you're worried about immigration, if

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you're worried about people coming in and stealing your job, then you're a racist.

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Yes.

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Rather than, I understand your fears, they're misplaced and this is why,

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but not just treating people as social pariahs because they are afraid.

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And are we doing that here?

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Um, good point.

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So nobody's come out from the Labor side and said, You guys

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are a bunch of deplorables.

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Oh, I don't know.

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I I got the feeling the greens with their trip up north of the last election.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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That's, was was a big up yours to the, to the mining communities.

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Yes.

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And certainly, so I wouldn't say a leader of the Labor Party has referred to the

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uneducated class as deplorables, but maybe there's enough rub off of other people

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saying, who are educated and saying, well, if you don't believe in climate

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change by now, you're a frigging idiot.

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Like, like it would be enough.

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Of just that class, which is what the quarterly essay says, is that the educated

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left would never diss a black person, a gay person, um, a disabled person,

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but a dumb hick from the regions who doesn't believe in climate change, well,

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they're a dumb hick from the regions who don't believe in climate change, they'd

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be a much more readily disliked class.

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Willing to insult them.

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Mm-Hmm.

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. So, eh, um, I dunno.

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Mm-Hmm.

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I saw a, a thing from UQ talking about biodiesel.

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Mm-Hmm.

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. And said we could grow our diesel on shore.

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Right.

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We could do this in the regions.

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We could literally turn the coal mining areas into large farms of biodiesel.

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Right.

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Which would imply all these workers.

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It's an engineering job.

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It's a similar skill set.

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It's not a direct replacement, but effectively we're still creating fuel.

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We're still, yeah, it's very much the same.

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It's a primary industry.

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Yeah, I think there are the jobs there to swap those coal miners over into, but I

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fully understand that they don't trust And I think we need to put our money where our

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mouths are and say, this is the future.

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We are going to invest heavily in it.

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This is not just a, there will be jobs, a vague promise, but some serious, right.

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This is what we see as our strategy.

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This is the investment we're going to make.

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Uh, these are the commitments.

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Now the question is, is it a core commitment or a non core commitment?

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And you know, the problem is, if, uh, if all the renewables is being

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done by private enterprise, then it's hard for government to guarantee

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where any of this is going to happen.

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Yeah.

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So I think they've got to grab guys like Twiggy Forrest with

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his hydrogen thing of plant or whatever and say to some district,

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well, it's going to be right here.

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That's where it's going.

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You move off there, you come into here.

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So yeah, people need to see some specifics because they rightfully don't trust

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this magical job that's going to appear.

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Mm hmm.

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And if we get in correctly at the base level.

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We can tax it so that all the profits aren't going to

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a big multinational offshore.

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And then I just need to say to people, Scomo is a bullshit artist.

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He is not one of you.

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He is actually screwing you over.

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He's taking money from you.

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And, and your tribe, and he's given it to those arseholes, um,

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in the finance world and wherever.

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So don't believe what he's saying.

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He's not on your side.

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Not only is he university educated, but it was a free university education.

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Was it for him, yes.

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Almost certainly.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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Um, so yeah, people need to understand you can't trust him.

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He's not one of you.

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He's just a bullshitter.

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Don't fall for it.

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Here's what he's done.

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Um, Yeah, but he doesn't hold the hose.

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No, exactly.

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That's right.

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But Lotus just doesn't want to try and sell a story.

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It's all small target.

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As much as you say about the Mad Monk and the Budgie Smugglers,

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at least he did hold the hose.

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Yes.

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Let's see in the chat room.

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Um, uh,

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Oh, it's too hard for me to read them in, but good on you Bronwyn

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and everyone in there who's going for all of those commentary.

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So yeah, that's still, we've mentioned it before, we've talked about the deplorables

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a lot and it's obviously still a Labor problem based on those statistics on

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the 20 seats at the bottom end and top end of, of university education and the

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way they went for and against Labor.

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That's a real concern, but it happened.

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With the pandemic, there's a small chance that there's been more division again.

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Um, One of my uncles, who shall remain nameless, has been a One

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Nation voter for many years.

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Uh, but he also, um, loves the rabbitos and it seems like a

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long bow, but hang in there.

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I'm with you here.

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So he lives in Greenway and he got to see, he got to see his beloved

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rabbitos obviously lose, but play a grand final here in Brisbane.

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And I will be looking forward to my next interaction with

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him to basically find out.

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If with all this COVID pe Cause he's quite a sensible man apart

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from his normal political leanings.

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And all this COVID stuff, he probably would have got the shits with it.

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And then, with that extra, like, um, So here's what I'm trying to say.

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There's a, uh, theme of xenophobia around one of my uncles, which I think might've

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translated around the border controls.

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So keeping us safe, keeping the people out and then getting to watch the rabidos.

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He might now be a Labor voter.

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Right.

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Because Palaszczuk was a pretty xenophobic about southerners.

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She was keeping our borders safe.

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I just think might, that's labor, just needs might be labor just

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needs to be more xenophobic.

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Well, wasn't, I just think there might be a little bit more, um, a little bit more

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division and it's not, not, may, maybe not as simple as this anymore, right.

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Maybe.

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Right.

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I'm an optimist.

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Yeah.

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Well, hang on.

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Wasn't it labor fed?

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The Pacific solution Labor has been.

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Fair, not, not quite, but almost as bad as the liberals in terms of border control.

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Uh, in what, what's labor said about border control?

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Oh, historically.

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Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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In terms of, um, both people and stuff.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Not a, yeah, not, not a piece of paper between them.

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Yeah.

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Very.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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'cause they weren't prepared to argue.

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Maybe they just believed it as well, but like with all issues, it just

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seems to be a small target where they didn't want to, well, I think it was,

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they couldn't sell it, so they didn't want to fight it very, uh, yeah.

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It was a gut reaction for a lot of people.

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Stopping the immigrants, stopping the boat people.

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Mm-Hmm.

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. Yep.

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It, it wasn't a thought out.

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And I'm sure Labor went, you know what, we're not going to be able

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to persuade people on this one.

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Let's just roll over because we're just going to lose votes and

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we're not going to pick any up.

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So it's, it's a vote loser.

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So we're out of here when it comes to this argument.

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Yep.

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Essentially.

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Hmm.

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Um, tough times for Labor ahead, um, but if they could just

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sell a story, it would be easy.

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Okay.

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Just, uh.

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Sorry, go ahead.

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I was just going to say, there's one really great thing about

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Western Australia and that's the, Rupert doesn't own the paper there.

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Right.

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And they really love Mark.

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Right.

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And they're, yeah, so I think, um, Labor could do well there.

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Right.

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Okay.

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Labor could do well there.

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They could do well enough there that the rest of the country doesn't matter.

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That would be refreshing, a newspaper not run by Yes.

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When you get it, you're like.

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I'm reading the news.

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That's why it's such a stark contrast.

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Yes.

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It's just like, yeah.

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I mean, I've been subscribed to the Career Mail and The Australian.

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I read The Guardian.

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I read ABC News.

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You almost burst out laughing reading the Murdoch stuff.

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Just look at the headlines.

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I read Spectator as well.

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And.

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New York Times, like, but honestly, you nearly burst out laughing, just, uh, you

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know, there's a disaster in New South Wales with, with, um, Gladys, and we just

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get a headline trying to poke something at Palaszczuk because she announced

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herself as the Olympics minister or something simple, like, they're just so

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detached from the reality, it is a joke.

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But conversely, did you hear about the Mega battery fire in New South Wales.

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No.

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So there's a You remember the South Australia battery?

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Yes.

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There's another one being built in New South Wales and one of the

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battery packs caught fire Right.

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Major fire.

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None of the national papers.

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Never saw anything about it.

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Yeah.

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No.

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It's like How?

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Yeah, exactly You'd think that the murder press would have

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picked up and run with that.

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Hmm No, I didn't see it.

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No, I was shocked.

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So what's also happened with Murdoch is they've done a 180 on climate change.

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It's such an astounding 180.

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The Courier Mail and all Murdoch papers during the week had this sort of six

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page lift out wraparound of the normal paper, which was essentially Well, of

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course climate change is real and it's man made and we need to do stuff about

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it and, you know, zero emissions by 2050, of course, and, and But did they say

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how they were getting to zero emissions?

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Well, I think from memory they really liked the Twiggy Forest hydrogen

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thing, so I think that was one of them.

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So, two things I heard.

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One is carbon capture and storage, and the other one is hydrogen is great, but

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it's blue hydrogen not green hydrogen.

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Right.

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What's that mean?

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And the difference is, green hydrogen is you take your renewable

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energy when you're not using it.

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Yes.

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So when the sun is shining, but people aren't using their air conditioners or

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when the wind is blowing, but nobody's got their TVs on or whatever and you

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crack water, you split water into hydrogen and oxygen and that's how you

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get your hydrogen, blue hydrogen, you take fossil fuels, gas and you put it

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through a chemical reaction with more fossil fuels powering that reaction

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and at the end of it you get hydrogen that's been created by fossil fuels.

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Yes.

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So you can create the hydrogen either with renewable energy or fossil fuel energy.

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And at the moment, blue hydrogen is cheaper than green hydrogen.

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Right, yep.

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So So anyway, I think, who knows what's going on with Murdoch and who knows

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where it will end up, but there's just this amazing 180 where essentially

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it seems to me that the rest of the world is really saying to Australia,

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we're going to stop dealing with you, like, when it comes to trade agreements

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with the EU, until you guys get your emissions targets where we want them,

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you're becoming a bit of a pariah state.

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So I think.

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From that point of view, they've come to the party, we have to do something, and,

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um, I think that's part of, it's a little bit like South Africa with sanctions and

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apartheid, like eventually the rest of the world shamed them into it to some extent.

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Yes.

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I think we've almost reached that point where business leaders are now saying,

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okay, I guess we have to do it because if we want to sell our shit to the EU and

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places like that, and the noises Biden's making, it's time for us to come on board.

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Seems to be.

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My understanding is it's just one stat.

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Yeah, and it's all talk and it's obviously going to be very

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favourable of large, um, ventures.

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The sort of thing that Twiggy Forest and others would want to

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do, large centralised ventures.

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So, um.

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Yeah, well, don't trust him for a minute as being genuine in it, and he could be

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trying to obscure things to bring about a blue, um, hydrogen rather than a green

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one, wouldn't surprise him the least.

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But in any event, still a turnaround just to acknowledge Uh, actually,

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yeah, it is man made, and yeah, we need zero emissions, and there

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were nowhere near that before.

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But, but I think this is just, this is the game plan.

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Yes.

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Is, is fight every step.

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Yes.

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In your rearward action.

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Yes.

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Until you've sweated all your assets as much as you can.

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Yes.

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You've dug as much coal out of the ground as you possibly can, and, and

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fight every step of the way back.

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Yes.

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So, um, so just, how much time we got?

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We got just a little bit longer?

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Yeah, you're okay?

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You're all good?

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While we're still on that sort of climate change thing, so

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just climate change acceptance.

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So the essential report came out today, so you wouldn't have seen this before,

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but the question was of Australians Um, Do you believe there is fairly conclusive

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evidence that climate change is happening and is caused by human activity, or do

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you believe that the evidence is still not in and we may just be witnessing

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a normal fluctuation in the Earth's climate, which happens from time to time?

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So, dear listener, uh, climate change is happening and is

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caused by human activity, 59%?

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As opposed to we are just witnessing a normal fluctuation

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in the Earth's climate, 30%?

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That's not good.

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No.

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Don't know is 11%.

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That's a, yep.

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That's not good.

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But you know what, like, I ran through it in our climate change episode and none of

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that stuff you will read in newspapers.

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No.

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Or magazines.

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You have to buy a book.

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Yes.

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Or listen to a podcast.

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You actually have to read a proper book or a podcast.

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Or some long form podcast to get that information.

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You don't get it in a newspaper or a magazine article.

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So, um, so once you see it, it's obvious.

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I think all you need to do is read the, um, the Exxon papers from the early 80s.

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Yeah.

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So it was the Exxon scientists or the Shell, one of the huge oil companies,

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that were going climate change is real, we need to do something about this.

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And by the time we got to the executives, they decided what they were going

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to do about it, which was deny it.

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And pretend that it didn't happen.

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And then cook the books.

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And then cook the books.

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And take Arthur Anderson down with them.

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Yeah, but it was the whole, uh, you know.

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The scientists themselves working for the oil companies.

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So it's not that science isn't settled.

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The scientists working for these companies 30, 40 years ago

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knew that this was happening.

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This is just muddying the waters.

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But, you know, what I presented in that podcast, I mean, you've

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heard every newspaper I access.

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None of that was in there.

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I had to go and buy a book and read about it.

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So, or a long form podcast of some sort would probably do it UQ did, uh, what's

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called Denial101x, which is a short, free course run by the university,

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uh, which is, uh, how do we know that the Earth's climate is changing?

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How do we know that humans are causing it?

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And why do people deny that it's true?

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And it's, as well, it's the psychology.

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So it does talk about how we know that it's changing and how we know it's us.

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But what's really interesting is the political reasoning behind,

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the psychological reasoning behind.

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Tribal allegiances.

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Absolutely.

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Speaking of tribal allegiances, just in the breakdown of that, uh, That 30 percent

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who said we're just watching normal fluctuations, um, the older you are,

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the more likely you are to think that.

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And also, if you're a coalition voter, the more likely you are to think that.

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So 39 percent of coalition voters think that it's just normal,

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cyclical warming of the earth.

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Only 23 percent of Labor, only 15 percent of Greens.

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15 percent of Greens think that.

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Wow, that's a worry, isn't it?

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I got a great phone call while I was in quarantine.

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Um, my friend's mum rang me.

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She's just like, Had enough of, of little action.

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All right.

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So, and her, um, she lives in, um, for your listeners, she lives in the

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neighboring suburb of Barton, which is a really beauty, beautiful, leafy suburb.

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So on Thursday we're meeting for coffee and we're going to start an interest

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group and then we're just going to try, I don't know, plant trees.

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We don't actually know what we're going to do yet, but we're just

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going to start doing something.

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And then.

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Hopefully build, build momentum.

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Very good.

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Yeah.

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There might be a trade group already.

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I, it would, you would think so.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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It might be even just, I've, I've Googled it, but I haven't found

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anyone specifically for Barden, but maybe in neighboring areas.

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There is for the Gap.

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Is there?

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Yes.

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If she wants to go to Taylor Range tomorrow, Wednesday night at 7.

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30, there's a meeting of sort of Gap people for doing that sort of stuff.

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Cool.

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There you go.

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It's close enough.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And I live in the Gap, so if you plant some more trees and make it beautiful.

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Exactly.

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Yeah.

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Or there'll be people who know about stuff in Barden, so.

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Exactly.

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Perfect.

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Thanks.

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There you go.

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That's good.

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Um, addressing climate change.

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Are we doing enough?

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Are we doing too much or not doing enough?

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Um, do you think Australia is doing enough, not enough or too much?

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Or just climate change?

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Not doing enough, 42%, doing enough, 31%, doing too much, 15%.

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So either doing enough or doing too much.

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How can doing fuck all be doing too much?

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I mean, seriously, so either doing enough or doing too much is 46 percent

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as opposed to not doing enough 42%.

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More people think we're doing either enough or too much, but not enough.

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Who is the more, uh, male and female is fairly even.

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Obviously, young people are saying not doing enough, I think.

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Well, but they're also saying doing too much, uh.

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Younger people, 18 to 34 group, doing too much is 19%, whereas the 55 year age

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group is saying doing too much is only 9%.

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That's weird.

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So the younger you are, the more likely you are to say doing too much.

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Hmm.

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And of course, uh, oh, now it's getting just bizarre.

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Green.

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Greens.

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Green voters.

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Doing too much, 18%.

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And doing enough, 17%.

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So if Greens vote it's 35 percent either doing enough or not.

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I reckon some of these people are just trolling themselves with Greens voters.

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They're just pulling their leg now.

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I apologise to you, listener, for presenting this, this surely

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bullshit study from the Central Poll, because that's just wacky.

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I'd hate not to.

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That's just, that's just wacky.

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Speaking of wacky, Keith Pitt, Resources Minister.

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He wants Australia, the government, to provide a 250 billion loan

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facility for the mining sector in return for a commitment to net zero.

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A 250 billion loan.

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So, um For where they couldn't get a private loan because those

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political advocate, uh, activists are forcing banks not to lend money.

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Correct.

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Banks are not lending to fossil fuel companies anymore.

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It's nothing to do with the fact that fossil fuel is actually

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not economically viable.

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And the investors are worried they won't get their money back.

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It's all those political activists.

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And the free market capitalists of the coalition want to tell,

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um, the market what to do.

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Yes.

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So, 250 billion is about one eighth of Australia's GDP.

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Um, Pitt's office was unable to tell Crikey how it came up with the 250

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billion figure, and we asked Nationals leader Barnaby Joyce to explain.

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But he said it's a matter for Pitt.

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That's a mistake.

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Is that Pitt the Younger?

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Yes.

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Um, I had a friend who commented on the, um, I can't remember which particular

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scandal it was, but, um, he said he was Unimpressed by the way it worked

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and I said it worked perfectly because the LNP's aim is to transfer public

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funds into the pockets of their rich mates, their party donors, and in

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that case it worked perfectly well.

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It did what it was supposed to do.

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Yeah, they're the greatest socialists.

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Yes.

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Nationals.

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Yep.

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So, um, so David Littleproud has demanded the banking system be destabilised

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by withdrawing deposit guarantees for banks that refuse to fund coal projects.

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And Matt Canavan wants every Australian mortgage holder to pay what would

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be in effect a coal tax by locking out banks that refuse to invest in

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coal, thus driving up interest rates.

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These guys are completely nuts.

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Yes.

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Um, there you go.

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That's part of that deplorables thing where we talk about

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guilty, but they are nuts.

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What can you do when they are?

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They are.

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And how come, like, that's not going to suit mortgage holders at all?

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Coal workers, is it?

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Surely not!

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Crazy thought bubbles from some maniacs who we've actually got in charge of stuff.

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This is Resources Minister, Keith Pitt.

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I'm really frightening.

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It's Agricultural Minister, David Littleproud.

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These are ministers!

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It's, it's the politicians who are so keen to prop up a single

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industry in their electorates.

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Yes.

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Rather than working on diversity.

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Yes.

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So that 250 billion, um, according to the Reserve Bank in, uh, from

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three years ago, the current level of replacement capital expenditure, that

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is, how much investment is needed to continue to dig up the same amount that

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is currently being produced, is around 10 billion for a five year period.

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So Pitt's quarter trillion facility would guarantee 125

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years of replacement investment.

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In both coal and iron ore on current spending levels.

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125 years of replacement investment.

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It's just completely nuts that these guys are in charge.

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Goodness me.

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So, um Is this Matt appearing in some photographs with some coal dust sprinkled

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on my face so I look like a miner?

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Yes, that's it.

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With the fluoro vest on.

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That's it, yep.

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Uh, just quickly, while we're still on energy, uh, and climate stuff, nuclear.

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So, a couple of polls have come out.

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Truly minucular.

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Nuclear.

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Nuclear.

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Nuclear?

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Question, um, from News Poll.

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The US or UK will supply the nuclear propulsion system to power the

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submarines, and Australia has not committed to developing a homegrown

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nuclear industry in the future, do you think Australia should develop its

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own domestic civil nuclear industry, including new nuclear power stations

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in Australia to generate electricity?

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Um, definitely 25% should consider 36%, no, 27% don't know.

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12.

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So either definitely or should consider was.

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61%.

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That's a lot of people in favour of nuclear.

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There was another poll out by Essential, who I now don't trust at all based

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on what we were talking about before.

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Uh, To what extent do you support or oppose Australia's developing

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nuclear power plants for the generation of electricity?

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And total support was 50%.

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Opposition was 32%.

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Unsure, 18%.

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So still quite supportive of nuclear.

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Energy.

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Um, it'd be great to put some of these people to a test as

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to their actual knowledge.

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Article from the Spectator I'll put in the show notes, which I'm actually only

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just providing to the Patreons these days, so if you want the full show

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notes, you have to become a Patreon.

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So, um, article from the Spectator saying we need to have nuclear, but I came

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across a very interesting article by Bob Carr, former New South Wales Premier

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and former Federal Foreign Minister.

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So, talking about nuclear, this is good.

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Um, the industry, the nuclear industry, lacks a single example in a western

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country of a new power plant being built remotely on time and budget.

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According to World Nuclear Industry Status Report, 94 plants were

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to come online across the next decade, but 98 get decommissioned.

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Yet 48 of those to be built are to be in China.

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Remove them and that leaves 46 coming online.

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With the stubborn fact that 98 are being decommissioned in the rest of the world.

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So excluding China, 46 coming, 98 going.

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In 2019, for the first time, renewable sources excluding hydro

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generated more power than nuclear.

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In Australia, nuclear attracts not the remotest investor interest.

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If nuclear were an option, a merchant bank or superannuation fund might

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be maneuvering to own the space.

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They might have formed a consortium with a miner and a construction company or

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two with a brace of lobbyists at work.

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It's not happening.

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The contrast with the surge to renewables is stark.

Speaker:

Andrew Forrest and Mike Cannon Brooks are prepared to put their own

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funds into a vast solar farm in the Northern Territory and Forrest to

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make a huge commitment to hydrogen.

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There is no single investor with a comparable zeal for nuclear

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power, either high net worth or Individual or institution.

Speaker:

So he says, I argued for a pro nuclear case within the Labor Party

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and scorned what I saw as the left's phobia against the nuclear option.

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And this is Bob Carr saying, I thought coal more destructive and nuclear the

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bridge to the era of new renewables.

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But now it's clear that nuclear is lumbering, subject to breakdowns

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and is crippling expensive.

Speaker:

New renewable sources such as wind and solar increased by 184 gigawatts.

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Nuclear only grew by 2.

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4.

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Number of reactors has barely changed since the 80s.

Speaker:

Um, France was the poster child.

Speaker:

Here's an interesting bit.

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Poor reliability plagues the fleet.

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This is a fleet of nuclear reactors.

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On any day, at least four plants are at zero output because of technical failures.

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The average per plant is a month per year at zero production.

Speaker:

So one of the great arguments for nuclear is it's reliable,

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consistent baseload energy.

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But in France, the average per plant is a month per year at zero production.

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Yeah, but there is one constant he hasn't factored in.

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Uh, Uranium for nuclear weapons.

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Right.

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That's the main reason for running nuclear power stations.

Speaker:

Ah, to generate the uranium for Yeah.

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Right.

Speaker:

Ah, good point.

Speaker:

That, that's, that's Is that where you get, that's where you get it from?

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That's the major reason for running, um, nuclear power plants.

Speaker:

Is that right?

Speaker:

Yeah.

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As a waste material from the nuclear power, from the No, other way.

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So the material, once it's gone through the reactor core, um, Is

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then perfect as a nuclear weapon.

Speaker:

Is more suitable to be put into weapons.

Speaker:

There you go.

Speaker:

Not even a Scandinavian deficiency can provide a happy pro nuclear narrative.

Speaker:

Finland became the first country in Western Europe to order a new

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nuclear reactor since 1988, but it's running 13 years late, plagued with

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management and quality control issues, bankruptcies and investor withdrawals.

Speaker:

Who could have the faintest confidence that Australia could

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throw up a nuclear reactor with more panache, um, than the Finns?

Speaker:

Um, doing big complex projects is hardly an Australian competitive edge.

Speaker:

Think of the submarines contract.

Speaker:

So there we go.

Speaker:

I didn't know that about the unreliability of nuclear.

Speaker:

I knew it's high cost and whatnot, but there you go.

Speaker:

Yeah, so it's, it's, my understanding is it doesn't financially work.

Speaker:

And the real reason for building and keeping the power plants running is

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most of the countries with a nuclear reactor also have nuclear weapons.

Speaker:

There you go.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

Well, we will and truly kept you out of the Shark Tank, Shane, for another week.

Speaker:

I'll be on my own next week.

Speaker:

I'm going to talk about Less is More by Jason Hickle.

Speaker:

How degrowth will save the world.

Speaker:

Excellent history of capitalism and economics.

Speaker:

Really, part of understanding the world is understanding political systems,

Speaker:

power, and economics, and climate, and he's got a lot of it all wrapped up

Speaker:

into a neat little theory and package.

Speaker:

So, so that's the plan for next week.

Speaker:

And then the panel, Still waiting to hear on the court case.

Speaker:

Um, don't know, haven't had a decision yet.

Speaker:

Fingers crossed.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Uh, if you're anywhere, you've got any chance of being in Noosa

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on the 30th, um, think about that as an interesting experience.

Speaker:

Um, we've got to apply for a protest permit.

Speaker:

So, hopefully that Is smooth sailing?

Speaker:

I mean, who wouldn't want a bunch of satanic protesters in Hastings Street?

Speaker:

On a Sunday night, is it bring your own goat?

Speaker:

So I dunno that we'll be having goats.

Speaker:

Um, could bless a goat I suppose.

Speaker:

But, um, yeah.

Speaker:

So anyway, keep that in mind.

Speaker:

Let us know if you're gonna go.

Speaker:

Alright, well until then, um, talk to you next week.

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Bye for now.

Speaker:

Thanks.

Speaker:

Good night and has a good night from him.

Speaker:

Well, you probably wonder what our politicians do on Christmas Eve.

Speaker:

Well, when it's drought, they eat cattle.

Speaker:

Now, you don't have to convince me that the climate's not changing.

Speaker:

It is changing.

Speaker:

And my problem has always been whether you believe a new tax

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is going to change it back.

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Look, I just don't want the government anymore in my life.

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I'm sick of the government being in my life.

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Yeah.

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And the other thing is, I think we've got to acknowledge is, you know, there's

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a higher authority that's beyond our comprehension and right up there in

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the sky, unless we understand, uh, that that's got to be respected, then we're

Speaker:

just fools and we're going to get nailed.

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