When uncertainty hits, do you fight, flee—or pause? In our new #WisdomOfWomen episode, Founder & CEO Michelle Hsiao of Revenue Growth Advisors shares how two layoffs in five years became the catalyst for building a values-aligned revenue engine.

She walks us through the often-missed fundamentals that protect margin (P&L fluency, pricing for reality, cash-flow awareness), why community accelerates founder growth, and how clarity on the destination frees you to be flexible on the path.

Michelle also offers a powerful reframe on women, leadership, and power—and a simple kindness practice that lifts customers, teams, and you.

Plus: a generous free 45 minute strategy session for listeners.

Our Guest This Week:

Today we have a 🌟 Revenue Rainmaker Extraordinaire🌟 in our midst!  

Michelle Hsiao (Show) is the Founder & CEO of Revenue Growth Advisors, where she helps high-potential companies unlock new levels of scale, clarity, and sustainable growth through sales strategy, team design, and customer-centric operations. With over 20 years of experience spanning Fortune 100 giants, venture-backed startups, and purpose-driven enterprises, Michelle brings an unparalleled ability to turn complexity into momentum and stalled growth into repeatable revenue. She’s known for building and rebuilding revenue engines that not only drive results—but reflect the values and vision of the founders she advises. Michelle is especially passionate about helping women founders step into their full power, aligning team performance with personal prosperity. A strategic thinker with the soul of a coach, Michelle’s work sparks transformation across people, processes, and profits.

Chapters:

00:00 Welcome & Introduction

02:30 Two Layoffs in Five Years: The Catalyst

07:00 Starting Lean, Building Smart

11:45 Power, Compassion & the Fine Balance of Leadership

18:20 The Strategic Power of the Pause

23:40 Scaling Revenue Engines That Reflect Values

29:10 Money, Margins & Mistakes Founders Make

36:00 The Role of Community in Growth

42:15 Book Wisdom: Women and Power

50:00 Final Reflections & Call to Action

Burning Questions Answered:

1.How can women leaders balance strength and empathy without diluting either?

2.What should a founder actually do in a hard season—push, pivot, or pause?

3.Which “boring basics” (P&L, pricing, cash flow) most often make or break growth?

4.How do you keep purpose and profit aligned as you scale?

5.Where can community meaningfully shorten your founder learning curve?

Key Takeaways:

• “Pause” is a strategic tool; use it to process, regroup, and return stronger.
• Define the end goal clearly; be flexible and creative on routes to get there.
• Build (or rebuild) revenue engines that reflect your values and your customer.
• Price with full costs (including logistics/seasonality) and protect cash flow.
• Join (and contribute to) founder communities to gain ideas, support, and leads.
• Kind leadership scales: be kind to customers, team—and yourself.

Favorite Quotes:

“The pause can be a positive thing.” - Michelle

“Be kind to yourself.” -Michelle

Guest Offers & Contact Information:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-hsiao/

https://therevgrowthadvisors.com/ 

Follow the #WisdomOfWomen show for more inspiring stories and insights from trailblazing women founders, investors, and experts in growth and prosperity.

YouTube: https://tinyurl.com/yja3w7nh

Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/4tak8ajk 

Amazon Prime: https://tinyurl.com/366syddj 

Apple Podcasts: https://tinyurl.com/bdhananz 

RSS Feed: https://feeds.captivate.fm/womengetfunded/ 

Coco Sellman, the host of #WisdomOfWomen, believes business is a force for good, especially with visionary women at the helm. With over 25 years of entrepreneurial experience, she has launched five companies and guided over 500 startups. As Founder & CEO of A Force for Good, Coco supports purpose-driven women founders in unlocking exponential growth and prosperity. Her recent venture, Allumé Home Care, reached eight-figure revenues and seven-figure profits in just four years before a successful exit in 2024. A venture investor and board director, Coco’s upcoming book, *A Force for Good*, reveals a roadmap for women to lead high-impact, high-growth companies.

Learn more about A Force for Good:

Website: https://aforceforgood.biz/ 

Are Your GROWING or PLATEAUING? https://aforceforgood.biz/quiz/

FFG Tool of the Week: https://aforceforgood.biz/weekly-tool/ 

The Book:  https://aforceforgood.biz/book/ 

Growth Accelerator: https://aforceforgood.biz/accelerator/ 

Welcome to the Wisdom of Women Show.

We are dedicated to amplifying the voice and wisdom of women.

On our show every week we bring to you a new model of leadership which is emerging and we are here to amplify the voices of women leading the way.

I am your host, Coco Solon, five time founder, impact investor and creator of the Force for Good system.

Thank you for joining us today as we illuminate the path to unlock unlocking opportunities and prosperity for women led enterprises by amplifying the voice and wisdom of women.

So today we have a revenue rainmaker extraordinaire in our midst.

Michelle show is the founder and CEO of Revenue Growth Advisors where she helps high potential companies unlock new levels of scale, clarity and sustainable growth through sales, strategy, team design and customer centric operations.

With over 20 years of experience spanning Fortune 100 giants, Venture backed startups and purpose driven enterprises, Michelle brings an unparalleled ability to turn complex complexity into momentum and stall growth into repeatable revenue.

She's known for building and rebuilding revenue engines that not only drive results, but reflect the values and vision of the founders she advises.

Michelle is especially passionate about helping women founders step into their full power, aligning team performance with personal prosperity.

A strategic thinker with the soul of a coach, Michelle's work sparks transformation across people, processes and profits.

Welcome Michelle.

Oh my goodness, what an introduction.

Thank you Coco.

Oh that's amazing.

Great to be here with you.

Thank you.

It's so nice because I run into you all over town and whenever we get together I feel like we just.

Have a small this world that we're a part of as entrepreneurs, as women, as business owners, the whole thing is a little bit tighter and that sometimes we think, you know.

So yes, it's always a pleasure.

Yes, exactly.

I always like to ask what is a book written by a woman that has significantly influenced your.

So you had asked me that question in advance.

Thank you.

I had to take a moment because when I started thinking about some of the books that meant a lot to me and impacted me especially in terms of business, I recognize the fact that, oh my God, so many of them are written by men.

So then I thought about it for one more moment and the book that I have been reading recently, I'm happy to say a business book is written by a woman and the book is called Machiavelli for Women.

And so you know, anyone who knows anything about Machiavelli, it has, he has turned into kind of this very negative comment connotation about control, mental impact and domination.

Stacey Vonnik Smith talks about it from the standpoint of, yes, there is that connotation, but really Machiavelli was more focused on gaining power and retaining power.

And so she's kind of taken that lens of how do you do that as a woman?

Because as we both know, you know, in our own personal experience and many of the women we respect, there's this very fine balance between a woman being strong and a dominant leader and kind of take no prisoners.

And then this need and this expectation to still be very feminine, very thoughtful, very caring of our teams.

And it's a very fine balance.

I can't tell you how she wraps it all up.

Cause I'm about halfway through the book, but I've just been really impressed so far of this.

This perspective of number one is recognizing that this is absolutely a situation that we, especially as women, and certainly women of color, even more so.

It's kind of that balance that you have to recognize exists and there is no getting around it.

But then how do you work within that framework and make it yours in terms of your own success?

That's been really impactful so far.

I love it.

So, Machiavelli for women.

I'm going to have to pick this up because we need to, as women, embrace our power in all of its forms.

Sometimes a feminine way is not always the only way.

Sometimes we need to assert ourselves in ways that are direct, powerful.

I think that's really interesting.

I'm gonna have to pick that up and read it.

Thank you for bringing it to us today.

Yes, of course.

I think you'll appreciate it as well as your listeners.

Wonderful.

So in life, right, we all have these big moments and let shape who we are, the ups, the downs, the all arounds.

Looking back on your life, your childhood, your teen years, your 20s, 30s and beyond, what are the three moments that shape who you are and who you've become?

Maybe share with us a moment where you stood up for yourself or stood your ground and said no, or where you overcame some heartbreak, loss or challenge.

Maybe a moment of pride.

What are the three moments that have shaped your.

Your journey?

So, you know, I was thinking about this a little bit in terms of what that means.

And there's moments that impact you from your personal life.

There's moments that impact you.

Purely professional.

For me, when I think about the moments, like what came to mind were moments that maybe in the time they felt like it was just a personal situation, but the reality was it has impacted me so significantly in all aspects of my life.

The first one that really came to mind was I was in a very serious car accident when I was 22 years old.

My friend was driving a car.

We were out really late.

Yes, there had been some drinking, but she was not under the influence.

She basically just fell asleep at the wheel and we drove into a tree.

It was a long road.

I was in the hospital for three weeks.

I had serious injuries.

She had even more serious injuries.

That whole experience could be a whole three hour conversation.

But what I take away from that or what was really important for me at the time.

I was at 22 years old, I had taken some time off from college, I was working, wandering around.

Probably not as appreciative of the people around me that were important and impacting me.

My family, my close friends.

And when this happened, the people that were there to help me get back on my feet and get my life back in order were my parents, were, you know, like very close family members, very, very close friends.

And all these people that were kind of like in the periphery just floated off into the distance.

So that whole experience, really, it was there.

I would say there were two main impacts.

One was this recognition of you need to find and recognize and appreciate the people that are really impactful and so important and there for you, no matter what.

That was, number one.

And number two was this idea that there comes a point in your life when you kind of have to pick a lane and stick with it.

For me, that was going back to, you know, I made some decisions.

I moved back in with my parents for a certain amount of time.

It was the only way I could do it financially.

Went back to college full time and got back on the path directed towards the goals that I had professionally and where I wanted to live and the whole thing.

And so that was a really big turning point for me.

And I'm kind of grateful for that because at 22 years old, it was an important time for me to say, okay, you gotta figure out what you're doing with your life and get back to it.

So that was a really big time.

Wow, thank you.

This is a great story.

It's such a perfect example of an experience that shapes your wisdom and who you become.

Just this idea, like, you pick a lane and you stick to it after that.

The idea that you have these people in life that really matter and, you know, sometimes we get too caught up in the ones that don't.

And I think that whether they be your loved ones, meaning like, you know, you know, like family members like your parents or your siblings, whether they be you know, the partner that you choose in life, husband, spouse, girlfriend, whatever.

It's just really important for us all to appreciate who they are, to dedicate the time to them and to not get distracted by kind of all of these like periphery things around you.

I think was a big learning for me.

Wonderful.

The second one that came to mind was, so I went through that situation.

I finished college, I moved to New York right out of college.

I didn't know anyone, I had no place to live.

I had no family, no friends.

But I did have a job.

So I started this job and I would say for about 14 years, just had this amazing life in Manhattan and amazing friends and, you know, great circle.

And we all went on vacation together.

We went to each other's family events and everything.

And I had different boyfriends come in and out of my life at different points.

But I wasn't married, I didn't have children.

And all of the people around me, pretty much that was the same situation.

And I turned 40.

This is an absolute true story.

I was at my party, I had an amazing big party and I was so excited and I ended up in the ladies room with my best friend crying and saying, I forgot to have a kid.

She was taken aback by then.

She's like, well, you know, and I have been dating a guy and we kind of ended it.

She's like, you'll find another guy.

And I said, I didn't say anything about a man.

I, I didn't say a husband.

I said, I forgot to have a kid.

Evening.

I started in earnest.

This is something that's important to me.

Then let me figure out, can I do this by myself?

So I started doing all the research and having meetings with doctors.

I was just going to do this on my own, be a single mom.

I made the decision to do this.

I'm going to probably move back to Maryland because where my family is, I want to have the support of them around me.

And I just, it was one of these things of, you kind of have to start building it, you don't know where it's going to end up.

And then two months after that, I met my now husband.

It was not like some sort of fix up.

It was not an app.

This is really kind of before the apps were popular, but just out one night we became really nice friends and we were hanging out together and then glove grew from the day I met him.

We got married two years later and then about 18 months later, we had my daughter.

At 44 years old, I had my daughter.

It was not without some struggles, but that was a big thing for me.

Some people say I've always wanted to be a mother.

I never really had that in me.

But then when I was 40, I felt like this is something that feels important to me.

I think again, that's an example of when something's important to you, you sometimes just have to take a leap of faith and do it on your own.

Like whether it's building a business, whether it's some something, you know.

But for me, this idea of having a child was really important.

I was doing it on my own.

And then I was fortunate enough that my husband came along and we were able to kind of do it more traditional way.

But that was a huge turning point for me, a huge milestone for me.

As I've shared with you.

I just picked up, picked up my 10 year old daughter from sleepaway camp.

At this point, I can't even imagine not being her mom, not having that be a part of my life.

I love that.

I just love how you recognized in this moment that this was something you wanted to have.

You didn't make it so that, well, I have to go find a man to do it.

Doubt that you did.

I love that you were just like, I am willing to do whatever I need to do.

I'm gonna solve this.

I do think that when we have that mindset around, like you said before, picking a lane, you'd make a decision.

I'm going to figure this out regardless of what the rest of the world does.

You can create anything.

And for founders and leaders, you have to have that.

Yes, exactly.

Always going to work out on the way you want it barely does.

Right.

And you just have to decide this is important.

Right, exactly.

And I think that whether in your own life and in your listeners lives, you have this idea of a goal, you have something in mind.

So let's say like tomorrow I decided I want to drive to, from New York to Los Angeles.

Okay.

Okay.

So my goal is to get to Los Angeles, but how you get there, There are different ways.

You could drive, you could take the train, you could fly, you could walk like, like there's so many different ways you could get there.

So I think as founders, as entrepreneurs, as inventors of something or a business idea, you don't necessarily have to know what the journey is, you just have to know what your goal is.

Whether the goal is some kind of new fangled pen that will never leak, whether the idea is interchangeable glasses, whatever.

The idea is, if you can have a solid idea of what your goal is or what the end product is, then that's a really important step.

Building how to get there or how to get this thing is not to say it's the easy part, but you have to have that end goal as a cornerstone to any idea.

I do, I do.

I absolutely do.

And once you figure out what it is you want, you can figure out a way to get there.

And just like you said, right there was, I also have heard it said and I, I've found it to be true in my life.

Whenever you can see the possibility of multiple ways, it's much easier than if you have a restricted, like it will only work.

S I get this, this or this or if I'm funded or if I have this level of success first, it's when we have like, oh, I'm going to get there whatever my goal is.

And I am not, I, I, I am okay trying lots of different ways.

And I'm not particular about the path.

Or maybe I'll bike and then train and then leap and then, I don't.

Know, I'll do right.

Like so I love that.

That's exactly right.

Tell us, Michelle, your third moment.

So the third one is a little bit more specific as far as business is concerned.

As you mentioned in the introduction, I've worked with some pretty big names.

I had been with a major retailer for about 15, 16 years and they made some significant changes in terms of organization and structure.

I was laid off.

It was the first time I'd ever been laid off.

I think I had lost my job outside of my control once when I was 19 years old.

But outside of that, it had always been me deciding it was time to move on, me deciding it was time to make a change.

So I was laid off from my job.

Took me a little time to find my next role.

Got an amazing role with another major retailer and I loved the job, I loved the company.

It was a really happy time for me professionally.

And then Covid happened and I got laid off again.

So I got laid off twice in five years.

And I came away from that with a lot of learnings again that could turn into a whole nother three hour conversation.

But, but through the course of, as everyone did, dealing with COVID and all of that meant, and we had some personal losses as a family and so many different things over the course of some time, I made the decision that I really wanted to walk away from corporate and do my own thing.

That came from inspiration and exasperation.

I have been volunteering with a nonprofit that supports small Businesses with high level business consulting advice at low or no cost via grants.

That experience informed me that there are so many incredible ideas of businesses and people that are passionate and committed and inventive and creative, but they don't necessarily have the foundation that they need build or start and build a business.

They don't know what the profit and loss statement is or they don't understand that just because you're selling doesn't mean you're making money.

I was working with these business owners who I just so enjoyed working with, but they needed help.

Okay.

And so that was the inspiration was I, is there a way for me to do something on my own that can help these businesses?

And then the exasperation part came from the fact I got laid off twice in five years.

And so it's this realization that doesn't matter what your title is, doesn't matter what the company is that you work for, doesn't matter how much your sal, you know, your comp is.

There is no absolute security.

So if there's no absolute security when I'm working for this big name that's, you know, on the s and P500 and the whole thing, then why don't I just try and start something on my own?

And so that's where it came from.

Over the course of about two or three months, I kind of just had this recognition that I wanted to try something on my own.

I'm very fortunate.

Anyone who has a service business understands this is that the cost of entry for a service business is very fairly low.

You know, if you want to make a business that's reinventing pens or notebooks or apparel, sunglasses or whatever it is, it's a very high financial investment to, to, to come up with product.

But when you have a service business, it's fairly low.

So for just a couple thousand dollars, I think it was like three or $4,000, you know, I built my own site, I, I, you know, established myself as an llc.

I, I did a couple other things and I just started my business.

And so for me that was again, that was just this idea, this kind of feeling of I'm not feeling fulfilled, I'm not feeling like I'm getting what I want at this point professionally.

So I'm just going to build it myself.

And that was the kind of the inspiration or the impetus for revenue growth.

Advisors.

You know, I think that makes so much sense.

I had a moment like that myself when I was in corporate.

It was a long time ago.

There's this whole world of founders out There getting to work with founders.

I just love founders, and I know you do too.

Right.

And we were talking earlier about how much you love helping founders at all stages, but especially at the ideation stage, that when you've got an inspired idea, it's a creative time, but it's also a very complicated, how do I do this time?

And there's ambiguity and uncertainty.

This is your sweet spot to tell us a little bit more about your experiences working with founders at this stage.

What you find is most challenging for them and how you have supported them in these challenging, uncertain times.

I would say, as far as what's most challenging, when someone comes up with an idea, whether it's an idea of a product, an idea of a business, you.

You know, it comes from some level of inspiration.

Whether it's inspiration, meaning there was a thing that you personally wish existed and it doesn't exist, or you don't think it exists the way you envision it.

And so you're going to just, you know what?

Why can't I be the one that builds it?

So it comes from that.

It could come from a place of, you know, maybe you're a service business and you wish this service existed.

It always comes from someplace, the successful ones.

It doesn't always.

Because there are some businesses that start just from the completely monetary perspective.

But.

But I think most of the most successful businesses come from a place of inspiration and a need.

Whether it was a need that they had, a need that they thought, you know, I don't know, they did something for a child's product, something their child needed, or whatever it might be, they all come from this place of inspiration, creativity, ingenuity, and thinking outside the box.

All of those are amazing qualities and essential in building a business or product.

But you also need some guardrails.

If you think of bowling, there are guardrails that keep your ball on the.

Or at least keep it from going down the other end of the bowling alley.

But my point is, if you, as the founder, as an inventor, don't have that in you to kind of establish those guardrails and some direction and some.

Okay, what are the brass tacks?

Let's get down to brass tacks.

Then you really need to get outside support.

And you know, sometimes I think as founders, as inventors, as product people especially, it can be extremely expensive to start something.

It can be extremely expensive to design it, to get it trademarked, to get it patented, to get it, get the prototype produced.

There's 30 steps to it, and it's very expensive and so sometimes there's a tendency to just come at it from the standpoint of I'll figure it all out on my own.

Either I'll just Google it and I'll figure out how to do it, or, you know, my sister's best friend's husband does this thing, I'll ask him for some help.

But you're kind of putting it together in this haphazard way that you're going to end up in some cases spending more money than you need to or spending more time than you need to.

Higher level of frustration because you're trying to figure everything out on your own.

Why I think our services are so important and why I enjoy working with these people is because, number one, we eliminate a lot of spinning your wheels of trying to find something, oh, I want to get this thing made.

I have no idea how to get this thing made.

Let me just Google who makes T shirts in the United States.

That process is going to waste a lot of time.

It wastes a lot of money.

You end up with people that don't necessarily align with your vision.

You end up with people that in some cases unfortunately scam you.

So working with someone of our ilk that is really knowledgeable in terms of building a product business is very beneficial to them.

And for me, what it gives me is I personally have not come up with any amazing, fantastic, like changing the world product idea yet.

But I love working with people that have these ideas and are so creative, inspired and passionate about it and really just helping them and supporting them in everything that that means in terms of operations, process and implementation, you're on mute.

Which areas do you really focus on?

I know retail.

Say more about.

Yeah, I like to say that we only support product businesses.

In many cases those are ideas of a product or the startup of a product.

Our current and past clients are in many cases direct to consumer brands or retailers or e commerce players within jewelry, apparel, wholesale food, consumer appliances, toys, home goods, anything within the four walls of a Macy's or a Target or a Whole Foods.

Those are our clients.

I love it.

So you've just named a couple of really big retailers.

Go to big retail is something that it's a topic that you've talked about to groups before.

Tell us more about that strategy, what you mean by that, and when a company is ready for that.

So it's really important to have goals for what you want this business to look like, especially when you're starting some sort of product business.

It's wonderful to have a vision of your apparel Line at Nordstrom, Target, Neiman Marcus or whatever it might be.

It's wonderful to have that as a goal.

The reality is when you're starting, the chances of you getting noticed by someone like that, getting an order, getting it in, making money off of it, are slim to none.

Okay.

I say that from the vantage point of what I do now, which is supporting product business.

I say that as a former retailer.

It's not just because it's hard to even get someone to open your email, take your call or answer your reach out.

It's an extremely challenging and heavy lift in terms of what that business relationship looks like.

So a lot of times when people come to me and say, oh, I want to get into Target or oh, I want to get into Whole Foods, before we even get into that, I talk to them about what are you currently doing, where are you currently selling, who are you selling to?

How is your customer finding you?

Is everything through your own website?

Are you working with marketplaces?

And marketplaces are not just Amazon.

There's a ton of retailers that have their own marketplaces, so meaning you don't ship inventory into them, you drop ship to their customers when someone orders off their site.

I talked to them about a lot of the, you know, or even maybe you're not doing any of those things, but maybe you're doing pop up events or, or you know, events or hospitality like your, your, your food is featured at like a stadium, like.

And all of these are scenarios that my current and past clients have been in.

So we talk a lot about what your business currently looks like and, and how you're selling, how is your customer finding you, how are you continuing to have repeat business?

And having a goal of being at one of these major retailers is great and we can support you and make that happen for you.

But there were steps.

This idea of go to big retail or go to retail is not something that you want to start from the very beginning.

A lot of the times when we work with our clients is focusing on their direct to consumer business is the first priority.

So not even adding on things like Amazon or Etsy, I want you to really just focus on your own site first.

Or if you do a lot of business in person at pop up events or makers markets, let's focus on that first and get that right.

And what can you learn from that?

Then let's start to think about getting you into one of these major retailers.

Because a major retailer is going to be looking for some sort of established consumer base that you as the inventor, as the Business have brought to the table.

They're not there to find customers for you.

You need to have some level of customers that you can send to their sites.

There should be people that are looking for your product and that now they can go to Target and look for your product.

And versus just saying like, oh, I want to work at, I want to be in Target so that people will find me.

That's not what how it works.

So having some level of established business, established consumer base, it's everything.

It's your social media accounts, how many followers you have, how much engagement you have, what does your email database look like, like all of these, how many orders are you getting, how many repeat orders, what's your cost of acquisition.

All of these are things that are really important that you have your arms around.

You can share those statistics, those metrics with these retailers before you ever getting any kind of merchandise into their stores.

Your wheels, if you're trying.

You know, I got to imagine that once you do sell to a Target or a Walmart, no holy grail, right?

Like their relationships, their supply agreements, how much inventory you need to have available, all that costs money.

And then they're really gonna squish you on margins, right?

Yes, they're gonna squish you on margins.

There's so many.

And some of the things as a 20 plus year retailer are kind of common knowledge, but they're really not.

Okay, so something as an example, just one little example.

Payment terms.

Okay, so payment terms are for those who don't know is basically how much time does the retailer have to pay you if you ship merchandise to them?

And the Invoice is dated June 1st.

If your terms are net 60, that means they technically have until August 31st to pay that invoice.

So now for almost 90 days, you have shipped merchandise, you of course have paid the manufacturer, you have paid the logistics, you have paid the three plus and you haven't gotten any money from the retailer.

So something like payment terms is really important to understand.

Oh, by the way, it's not set in stone.

You have some level of negotiation to say I'm a brand, you know, I'm a brand new brand, I'm so excited to be in your retailer.

But I need, is there some flexibility here?

Could we do half and half or could we do net 30 for the first six months and then go to net 90?

There is flexibility there, but you have to know that and whether you know it because you did a lot of research on your own or you're working with someone like a consultant or a fractional someone that can help you with this, then that way if, you know, going in, I'm not getting paid for 90 days, you can figure out ways to make that work for yourself.

But if you are blanketly signing the agreement because you're so excited to be at Walmart or Target and you didn't read through this 50 page routing guide and like agreements and, or you just like, it's not that big of a deal, then unfortunately there are examples of businesses that have been so excited to be in a major retailer and they did not do their due diligence, they did not negotiate, they did not understand the full complexities of it and they bankrupted themselves.

I work really hard with people to make sure that that does not happen.

Right.

One of my early companies that I talk about in my book, it's one of my not proud stories.

I had a chocolate distribution company, had a team of individual sales reps around the country that selled into retail stores.

They would go and sell our chocolates created by the Chickasaw Indians.

There was a purpose to it.

Everything was going really great until we got to the summer and the summer shipping chocolate.

Yeah.

Your shipping costs like quadruple.

Yeah.

Guess who did not anticipate that.

Right.

So it was a disaster.

Like, and you know, and we had, you know, so we got through it and life goes on.

Yeah.

This is exactly what you're talking about.

And if I had been working with.

You, it would have been like Dune, what's going.

Right.

August.

Right, Right.

That's right.

Well, that's a great example.

You figured out a chocolate bar needed to cost whatever you charge, let's just say $5.

You figured out it needed to be $5 and that was based upon the cost of all of the raw materials, salaries, rent, shipping, the whole thing.

You figured all of that out, but then you didn't factor in the fact that your shipping costs were going to quadruple.

If you had figured that in and factored all that out between the months of May to September, your margin was less because of the amount you were spending on shipping and logistics.

But then you meet it up in October through March and that would be fine.

And then you would be able to build for that.

You would know, I don't make a lot of money in the summer, but I make my money back in December.

It's just different business models.

But you're right if you're not kind of bringing all that in.

And again, like in the example of mine of like the cash flow, if you're not factoring that in and understanding that there's huge impacts, very detrimental.

So, yes, definitely, there are ways to.

Deal with all these things, but you have to be ahead of it or you find yourself in a jam where you've got orders coming in and you've got to produce and you're not prepared.

You don't have a line open for working capital.

You don't.

Right, right.

You really should have been charging another dollar.

You couldn't understand why the other ones were so much more expensive.

And now you.

Exactly.

Now you figured it out.

You're like, ah, that's because they were in cold trucks together.

Yes.

Okay.

That's because they were in dry ice.

Oh, yes.

I think.

But here's the thing I.

What I've learned in business is, is that you can.

It is this growth is a puzzle you can solve.

The more you can bring expertise.

One of the other things I always feel like, and I'd love your input on this, when you're early on and wearing all these hats, you've got your bright idea and you're moving towards it, there's some part of the puzzle that you're really good at.

But then there's other parts, be it finance or marketing or you're not.

It's hard because you can't hire everybody you need at the very beginning.

What are some ways you have guided founders in that spot?

Well, I have this analogy.

A parking lot.

When you think about the parking lot at the mall, you drive your car to the parking lot.

You.

You turn your car off, and you walk into the mall.

Okay.

And you.

Your car is out in the parking lot, and it's ready for you when you're ready to leave, it's ready for you when you're done with whatever you're doing, shopping.

And I kind of try and think about that, about ideas for business.

Okay.

You need to.

Whether it's literally a document that you have someplace or something, but have a parking lot.

Okay.

Have a parking lot of ideas of things that you want to do, people you want to hire or services you want, or chocolate bars you want to expand into, like, I don't know, hot chocolate, whatever it may be.

These are all amazing ideas, but they're not what you need to be focused on today.

And so I try and share that with my clients, my founders and my colleagues that we brainstorm together.

You can have amazing ideas of how you could expand your business or people that you wish you had as consultants or employees, or you want your chocolate bars in.

I Don't know, Brazil or whatever, those are all amazing ideas, but they're not today.

So you need to get them out of your head so they're not taking up space but, but capture them in some way so you won't forget them and you can add to it.

I would love to be in Brazil.

I would love to be in the specialty store.

What is, you know, I think that's something that's really very important.

Is, is you need to.

It's.

It's okay.

You can have amazing ideas, but you got, you can't dive.

You can't divest your mental and financial resources to the point that you're not doing anything with impact.

So I think that again, this idea of not neglecting these great ideas, these great directions, or these great hires of people, you have to really stay focused.

You pick a lane, you find your niche, and you just really have to stay true to that.

Many years ago, I was with Macy's for about 15, 16 years, and the man who was our CEO at the time was named Terry Lundgren.

He's like, he's anyone who's in retail, he is one of the top retail innovators and leaders.

We were in the midst of launching E Commerce in a big way.

This was before E Commerce really was much of anything.

And someone was in a meeting and someone asked a question, something to the effect of like, so how long are we going to do this E Commerce thing before we figure out whether it works or whether it doesn't work and we'll just abandon it and just focus on the stores?

And he kind of said, well, he's like, first of all, you have to give a new idea time to grow.

You can't decide after three or six months, like, this isn't the right direction.

Let's do something else.

He's like, you have to give it time, time.

And secondly, you have to stay secure in what your idea is.

E Commerce was still up and coming and like, there were a lot of people that were like, this is not going to really work.

This is not going to be a thing.

And he was just, he was very focused.

This is our growth engine.

And so he was like, no, we're not abandoning it.

You have to make changes and adjustments, but at the end of the day, stay focused on your goals.

So, you know, going back to your question as far as the, you know, working with founders and leaders, make sure you're focused on what your ultimate goal is, which is that product, that customer, and what that means, and really try not to get Too distracted by new product additions or like, you know, we've been doing great.

Direct to consumer.

Okay, let's immediately figure out how to get into retail.

Like, no, there's gotta be some level kind of the journey before you start making these big diversions.

I do, and I feel like it's really easy.

If you're a founder and you have no one else that you're working, working with, and you've got your team, but they're there to just do what you tell them to do, then you really don't have anyone giving you feedback.

And that can be dangerous.

Yeah.

One of the reasons why having an advisory board, having a couple of outside consultants like yourself, or somebody having a board itself, so that you have to be responsible for seeing, this is my plan and here's my progress.

And because that creates more of like, okay, that's what I was doing because that's what I told them I was going to do.

When you start to not have any accountability, you don't do your best work.

I completely agree with you.

If you're not financially ready to hire consultants.

Like you said, the idea of an advisory board can be something formalized instruction.

It can also be like, here's three or four people that I respect, whether they be in that specific product or a different kind of business or product, but they've gone where you're trying to get to, or maybe none of those things, but they're an amazing bookkeeper and can give you some strong financial perspective.

I think those are different things and it's kind of how you and I connected.

First, there are so many amazing communities out there, like membership communities and, and, and, and there's different varieties, there's different, you know, there's a couple that we love.

For me, finding a couple of communities, getting involved, being active and giving, as well as receiving has been instrumental for my success and where I've gone and the clients that I've gained and the colleagues and everything.

Because what I found was a lot of the colleagues that I had from my corporate days, they're still wonderful people.

And I love getting together for lunch with them and chatting about my business, but they're not living this entrepreneurial life.

As much as I appreciate their feedback and thoughts, they don't have firsthand experience about this.

So I had to find people that were more on the same path that I'm on right now.

I would say to entrepreneurs, founders, inventors, find communities, you know, that can help to, again, like, be on that same path with you.

So there's like, all these different, like, inventor communities.

There's all these different female entrepreneur communities.

There's, like, things that are focused on, you know, like your specific town or your county or your state.

Like, there's so many different things or, you know, different organizations that can be very beneficial to people.

I completely agree.

The other thing that happens is you start to see what other people in your business are doing.

It will give you new ideas.

You'll see, oh, this is the consultant helping everybody who's got a product.

I didn't even know there was a specialty for the backend software that everybody uses.

All these things.

When you start to be in a tribe, a community of people doing something similar to you, it'll give you strength, it'll give you ideas, support.

You'll know who to go to.

You won't make all the same silly mistakes.

I mean, you and I have run into each other at Entrepreneurs and Get Luminary Women's Business Collective.

I don't know where else.

I mean, I think we run into each other in a lot of places.

Maybe how women lead, I don't remember, but we've run into each other a lot of places.

And that is reassuring, for sure.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

All right, so as we.

As we move towards the close here today, one final word of wisdom you would like to offer to founders in moments of doubt.

Moments of doubt?

Oh, gosh, no one has those right.

Never.

I think it's like the whole fight or flight, when faced with adversity, whether that be a tiger or some business challenge, you can fight it or you can flight it, meaning, like, you know, leave the situation.

So the flight, as far as, like, an entrepreneur or a business owner is concerned, would be.

Could potentially be like you just shut down.

You shut your business down and you move on to something different.

But I think there's the fight, which is, you know, you're going to fight it and you're going to figure this out and you're going to plow through and you're going to make it work.

There's the flight, which is like, you shut down your business, you walk away, you get a big corporate job again.

But then there can be this moment of pause.

Okay?

It's.

The pause can be a positive thing.

In some cases, you just need a day.

Like this thing happened or this is going on.

You just need a day.

Take a day, Go to the beach or just sit and watch cheesy TV for a day.

But a pause also could be weeks or months.

What do you want?

Maybe you just need some time to think on something.

Maybe you're like, oh, I really wanted this to happen or I really wanted my product to be at this retailer and they turned me down.

And you have to take a moment to mourn that a little bit, but also to regroup.

And a regroup is not, you're not going to figure out in a matter of an hour by brainstorming, taking the time to think about, well, did it not work because they had a point like that whatever I'm doing, this thing is not right, or did it not work because they just didn't get my idea?

Maybe I'm not selling my idea the right way.

It's really hard when you have a business of any sort to not take everything personally and to not feel like everything is a gut punch.

Having that mindset of taking a pause and regrouping a little bit, mourning it a little bit and then coming back, you know, stronger is.

I feel like there's a lot of relevance for entrepreneurs.

100%.

That's all right.

So let's do a fast five round.

So I'm going to give you five quick questions.

Answer in less than five words, your favorite way to celebrate a win.

I celebrate a win.

I would say my favorite way to celebrate a win, like business wise, is some kind of activity with my daughter.

Wonderful.

So as I shared with you yesterday, I took the day off, I took my daughter to the beach.

Awesome.

So beach with your daughter.

Yes.

Biggest retail crush, a brand you adore.

I'm sitting here looking at all this up on my desk.

One that I just love are any kind of fun and new alternative brand candy.

So you know, not Hershey's of the.

World, a favorite guilty pleasure TV show.

What I am watching right now with my 10 year old is the Dallas Cowboy cheerleader tryouts reality show.

Wonderful.

That's great.

One word your best friend would use to describe you.

It's overused but passionate.

And what's one thing you say in a coaching session with a client?

It's be kind.

Be kind to others.

Meaning the people that you surround yourself, your colleagues, your co workers, your team, your investors.

Be kind to your customer.

And there's a lot there.

But also be kind to yourself.

Like it's important that we nurture and support ourselves in addition to everything that surrounds us as far as our business is concerned.

So Michelle, how can listeners learn more about you and your services?

Certainly through LinkedIn.

I know Coco will add the links to the notes here.

Feel free to email me at michelle h@v t h e reverend growthadvisors.com we are on instagram@gotobigretail.

I'm happy to connect with everyone in support of your listeners.

I am happy to provide a free 45 minute strategy session to anyone that books via the link that Coco will put in the notes.

I'm very happy to do that for anyone.

It's all about them.

We will not discuss my business.

We will not discuss anything else except for them and their business.

Oh, that's very generous.

Thank you Michelle.

So everybody, be sure to check out the links in the description below.

You will love being in her presence and hearing her wisdom.

Thank you Michelle.

It was an absolute pleasure.

Thank you for joining us on the Wisdom of Women show and for illuminating the path to unlocking opportunities for growth prosperity for women led enterprises.

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