Hey there, listener! Thank you for checking out our older seasons! We're adding this note on the top of the show notes to keep you up-to-date with the show. Connect with Jen Amos and get bonus content when you subscribe to our private podcast show, Inside the Fort by US VetWealth, at http://insidethefort.com/

Last Updated: September 2, 2024

---

154: "I don't want people to give me things. I want to earn things." Trevor Maxwell Reinvents Himself After 20 Years of Service - Part 1 of 2

Jen Amos welcomes her US VetWealth colleague and Creator of Military Money Mistakes, Trevor Maxwell, into a two-part interview. Trevor shares his first memory of meeting Jen's husband and business partner, Scott R. Tucker. At the time, they discussed Trevor's decision to take a different career path after retiring from the Navy. He continues to reflect on his journey in the last 5 years since retiring, including his mindset shift of seeing himself as a "new guy" in the civilian world. Trevor leaves us for part one of this interview explaining why he decided to pursue a career that was completely different from his work in the military to leave that part of his life behind.

This episode is also available on YouTube: https://youtu.be/-GyV9kJLdvE

Connect with Trevor Maxwell https://www.linkedin.com/in/trevorcmaxwell/

--

Check out our last newsletter for 2023: https://mailchi.mp/5f4af326864a/holdingdownthefort

Do you want to do more than “follow orders,” think outside of the box, and manifest your dreams? Then you’ve come to the right show! The award-winning podcast, Holding Down the Fort by US VetWealth, is returning for Season 7 to highlight motivational stories of personal growth, financial awareness, and autonomy in our military community. The show is hosted by Jen Amos, a Gold Star daughter, Veteran Spouse, and Entrepreneur.

Access our FREE PORTAL for bonus content: https://holdingdownthefortpodcast.com/portal

Season 7 is in partnership with The Rosie Network! Read more - CLICK HERE

Get the latest updates straight to your inbox by subscribing to our newsletter:  CLICK HERE

Our main sponsor US VetWealth is proud to offer a FREE Retiree Appraisal to help military retirees make a confident and informed decision on the Survivor Benefit Plan and Thrift Savings Plan. Get a comprehensive understanding and financial valuation of your time in service today by visiting: https://usvetwealth.com/usvw-appraisal/

In the Fall of 2023, Jen Amos was sought after by InDependent to co-host the 8th annual InDependent Wellness Summit™. In August 2022, Jen Amos' work on the podcast was recognized by Disney Institute and she was hand-selected as the only non-Disney employee to moderate the first Military Spouse Employment panel for the Veterans Institute Summit. March 2022, Jenny Lynne has voted the 2022 Naval Station Norfolk Armed Forces Insurance Military Spouse of the Year. November 2020, Jen Amos was awarded “Media Professional of the Year” at The Rosie Network Entrepreneur Awards! The show continued to collect award nominations in the following years. In September 2021, the show made the Final Slate in the 16th Annual People's Choice Podcast Awards for the Government & Organizations category. In November 2021, the show was an Award Finalist for the 5th Annual National Veteran & Military Spouse Entrepreneur Awards. December 2021, the show was a Golden Crane Podcast Awards Nominee. September 2022, the show was a Finalist for the 13th Annual Plutus Awards presented by Capital Group for “Best Military Personal Finance Content.”

Holding Down the Fort has also been featured in multiple media outlets including Military Entrepreneur (M.E.) Magazine, MOAA’s Never Stop Learning Podcast, The Leadership Void Podcast, Lessons Learned for Vets Podcast, Sisters in Service Podcast, Get 2 Vet, Blue Star Families of Dayton & Southwestern Ohio, Legacy Magazine, U.S. Veterans Magazine, The American MilSpouse, VeteranCrowd Network, It's a Military Life, VirtForce, Military Veteran Dad Podcast, and much more.

Enjoy our show? Kindly leave us a 5-Star review on Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/30SJ7NW, Podchaser https://bit.ly/3dnCacY, or write a LinkedIn Recommendation for Jen https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenamos/edit/forms/recommendation/write/

Jen Amos 0:01

Awesome. And I am incredibly excited because one of the amazing things that I get to do for season seven of holding on the Fords is interview people that I work with at US bet wealth. And so today I am so excited to introduce to all my colleague, Trevor Maxwell. Trevor, Welcome to Season Seven of holding down the fort.

Speaker 1 0:22

Hey, thanks for having me. I'm glad we get to get a chance to do this. I know we've been talking about it for a while. And I think we'll probably have some more of these on my thing later, later on down the road, as I've been, you know, you've got holding down the fort. I've got military money mistakes. So yeah, looking forward to continuing to do this.

Jen Amos 0:44

Yes, yeah, just consider this, like a cross promotion. So and we'll get into a little bit about what you do later, because it's a crucial part of the story that we're going to, that you're gonna be sharing today. And I am excited because having been on your show, you know, I was able to, you know, play co host and primarily listen and, and be of support to you. And so now I'm excited to bring you on my show and hear your story, or hear more of your story on our on this show. So I'm really excited about that. And I thought I'd open up with an icebreaker question, because you've been working with us for a couple of years now. So I thought I would ask what, what was your first memory of Scott, because you met Scott before you met me and Scott, in case anyone's listening. For the first time. Scott is my husband and business partner at US bet wealth. And I know that there was something in the past where you knew him and then a couple years go by and then and then you discovered you wanted to work with them. But what was that first memory of Scott?

Speaker 1 1:42

Jen Amos 2:55

So that's synapse cubs. Shout out to Keith Reynolds with synapse, synapse hubs.

Speaker 1 3:01

Yep. And so I went to one of those events. And I saw Scott and I instantly kind of dug his vibe was like, Oh, here's a guy wearing jeans, flip flops, t shirt and a sport coat. I was like, Yeah, I get that. That's kind of how I, you know, I, I gotta appreciate that, like, a lot of people will be like, well, but I was like, okay, so we started talking, I think we all went to this big Chinese buffet or something. And, you know, I had met him a couple other times, between then and when I started working with you guys. But really, what kicked it off my own personal story. You know, I got out sort of working in history. I did it for a couple years. And I just as I was working and dealing with some of the other people in the industry, I kind of had this. This feeling I was like, I, I kind of feel like there's a better way to do this job. And, and so I started looking for that. And, you know, I had seen Scott at a networking event that was in the building that I was working at is like, downstairs, I came and I run into Scott. And he starts talking says, Yeah, I'm looking for more people to work with. And I had seen a lot of the stuff that Scott was doing on social media, especially on LinkedIn, and just online and I thought, okay, it kind of coincided with an epiphany that I had. It's like, I could be the best financial advisor in the world. But that doesn't matter if nobody knows who I am or what I do. And that's when I was kind of like, okay, now I know what's important. It took me a couple years to figure out what's really important in being able to not only become a financial adviser, but stay a financial adviser, because if people are listening to don't know, this career field, I think there's something like a 95% attrition rate over the first three years. We call it the three year desert. And so You know, it's funny, like I always tell the story like, don't ask me for job interview advice, because my first job interview went like this. I was I went to go see a financial advisor to help me get ready to retire out of the Navy. And I had just finished my business degree. And so I'm like, going back and forth with them all this stuff. He goes, what are you going to do when you retire? And I said, I don't know. I just know, I don't want to work for the government anymore. Yeah, I'd like to be able to do something where I can still do, you know, be of service to the folks that are so going out and deploying, and he said, Hmm, maybe you should come work with me like half joking. Yeah. So I called him up a couple of weeks later. And I was like, hey, you know, thinking about what you said, Me coming to work with you. I think I'd like to do that. So me and him went out and grab a beer. He's like, Well, it's kind of half joking. But if you really want to do this, yeah. That was how my first job interview went. My second job interview was, after I'd run into SCADA at that networking event, I called him a couple weeks later and said, Hey, are you still looking for advisors? And he goes, Yeah, and I was like, Yeah, I think I'd like to come work with you guys. Yeah, he said, Yeah. Okay. So those first two civilian job interviews,

Jen Amos 6:11

that's amazing. I mean, it's, it's nice how, you know, you, you didn't like you really went from taking this government job for 20 years to like, going the like going the complete opposite and taking the path less taken in a sense and going from, you know, being employed to being self employed. And, you know, very interesting to hear how, you know, how I just think it's funny how you stumbled into the industry, in a sense, because you're you didn't know. And here, you are now working with us, but Well,

Speaker 1 6:41

yeah. And I'll tell you this, that was something that I knew for me was going to be really important for my own mental well, being when I retired was getting a clean break, like I was an EOD tech. When I was in the Navy. I got out like, look, there's no EOD. I mean, there's bomb squad and stuff like that. I was like, I don't want to be in that role anymore. I need to clean break, I need to go out and do something else. You know, just to continue to challenge myself. I knew if I went and did I passed up, like six or seven, you know, six figure jobs. To go make $40,000 My first two years out of the Navy. But guess what, I didn't care because I liked what I was doing. I was challenging myself, I wasn't becoming complacent. Because, you know, a lot of us joke all the time, we see those guys that you know, you're retiring, and you come back the next day and khakis and a polo and 15 extra pounds that you put on overnight and do like I was like, that's not going to be me I need to do something where I have freedom of maneuver. I'm, you know, my success is dependent on me. And, and I have to, you know, continue to challenge myself. It's just, that's kind of like what we had when I was in the Navy, like, especially in the Navy Special Operations community. That's what you have, you're constantly having to reprove yourself over and over again. And I, I thought well, okay, this seems like something that would present that kind of challenge to me.

Jen Amos 8:11

Yeah, well, I think that's really awesome. And, you know, here you are, you know, five plus years from what it sounds like, since you've retired, give us a snapshot of what life looks like for you today, you know, ever since you decided to take a different path, and not be some, you know, not translate your EOD skills into something in the civilian world.

Speaker 1 8:31

So it's funny that you mentioned and I'll talk about that later, how actually, a lot of the skills that I had from the military made me really good at this. And it's not necessarily what people would think. But so I guess, you know, for me, why, you know, the biggest thing that I like about this job is first of all, I like working with people I like talking to and meeting new people, I love sharing information, which we'll get into more of that later. Yeah, I just, I kind of have that outgoing personality, I'm not afraid to, you know, go up to people at networking events. And guess what, I can actually go there and network with people, I don't stand there and in a circle with three people that I already know, I go out and talk to brand new people and meet them. You know, the thing that I like about here, though, is I get to do that on a different scale. You know, I like the idea of creating the online, the personal brand. You know, doing a lot of that work, like what I tell people I'm like looked at, you know, the financial advising stuff, the insurance stuff, that's easy. I learned that in my first year in the industry. The other stuff that I do now the content creation, the coming out of your shell, getting past all of your apprehensions to go out there and put yourself into the world and start talking about things that you know about like it's, I'll tell you this, it's It's a little at first, it's a little frightening. Yeah. You know, I always equate that to like my first jump at freefall school when you're standing there looking, you know, down 12,000 feet and you're like, what? Joy? And then you, they had a saying they said, Hey, don't worry about your first jump, you're going to get out of the plane, we'll make sure that it's up to you to make sure you get back on for the second jump as like, okay, yeah. Yeah. I didn't have that, you know, that nobody would make sure I got on the plane that was on myself when I got, you know, when I get into this, but I love you know, the free I mean, like, you know, COVID kind of changed a lot of things for us as far as the office environment. It's funny, because I met you guys, I really started working with you guys, right around the same time that COVID kicked off. Yeah, it was like a perfect match. Because I was kind of wondering, Am I going to be able to work from home? Yeah, is that like, going to be a viable option for me? And then I found out well, it's got to be because we didn't have a choice. So that was a little rough at first, because now I was part time school teacher and part time financial advisor, I was kind of learning learning the new skill sets, again. But you know, the amount of freedom that I have to kind of, you know, go out and be, you know, be my own boss. I really liked that. And a lot of people say that, you know, who know me or like, how did you ever do 20 years in the military? Because I hate having people telling me what to do. Yeah. You know, so now I get to do that myself. You know, there's, there's some, there's some other things that come along with that, that maybe aren't all happy, sunshiny, right? You, you are responsible for your success or failure. Something that I you know, I coach at a nonprofit, the Honor Foundation for people who are getting out of the military. And I tell us that all the you know, one of the things I do is these cups of coffee, where you go out and have cups of coffee with all these people. And I tell everybody I talked to like, hey, take a moment, take a minute to think about this. It's just a little humility, check. Understand that right now, you while you're still in the military have no idea what we used to say big boy or big girl rules, you don't have any idea what that is yet. You're going to find out after you get out. But there's that there's that responsibility for that too, right. So you get the increased freedom, but you also have the increased the burden of like, hey, you know, my success is entirely dependent upon me. Which I like that.

Yeah, I think it's interesting, because I feel like a lot of people aspire for freedom and flexibility. But I think that if, if you cannot grow into the person that could handle that, I think it's very easy to slip back into a job, which is, you know, it is what it is, like everyone, I think that we need to have employees, like it's all unnecessary, it's just that you can't just go into this life and think like, Oh, I'm gonna have all the freedom and time the world, but like, you're also responsible for possibly working on the weekends or working holidays, or, you know, sacrificing some time. And so it is really interesting to, you know, hear your 20 years of service, you know, from them from then to where you're at now, and having like, all this freedom and flexibility, and I wanted to speak about, you know, how you started working with us during COVID. And it's funny, because we all live in Hampton Roads, and yet a lot of the work that you and I do and with Scott, we do it all, you do it all virtually, even until this day, and on occasion, on occasion, we'll be like, Okay, well, let's go meet up at a gather and let's go meet up for coffee. But even then, it just, I just find it more convenient to do everything virtually. In fact, I don't, I'm not even really good at like, if people want to record in person, like what you and I did for your show. It almost just seems like inconvenient, you know, inconvenient to, like record in person versus recording like this, because you and I already have our setups in our office or in our home. And, and it just makes it it just makes it easier. So, but I am curious to know, Trevor, like, how did you like, tell us a little bit about that, that mental shift from you know, coming out of the military, although it sounds to me like like, I know, you're gonna mention here a little bit like that you a lot of what you did in the military, you weren't able to translate it into the work you do today. But what was that mindset shift of like going from following orders to to creating your own orders for yourself and living this flexible, you know, free life that you're living right now?

I think for me, probably the one thing that I did the one kind of mindset shift that I made for my Self that helped was I just kind of realized. I was like, hey, you know what, I'm basically a new guy again. You know, wherever you go, if you go to like any of these, like us EOD teams SEAL team, you know, the Green Berets, whatever, like they're, they're new guys. The first thing to do when they get there as they say, Hey, congratulations, you made it here. Now, shut up and listen to what everybody's telling you. Right? Like, because that is like you're you're not.

It's okay. We have an editor. So you can you can just wait.

Okay, I'm muted. So you guys can hear me yell at my dogs. But you know, you, you need to have that kind of humility and whatever to realize, like, hey, you know, I'm, I'm completely new at this, I have a lot to learn. Yeah. And so I think that first, first year, was crucial for me just to have that, like, Hey, I'm a new person. I've never done any of this type of work before. So that helped me a lot. In terms of, of mindset, you know, and I think if anybody else is able to do that, it's not hard. Now there are some jobs had I had I gone and done one of these jobs, where as a contractor or whatever, yeah, I already knew that stuff. Like it would have been easier. But again, to who would have been less challenging for me, it would have been, and, you know, I have a lot of guys tell me, they say, Man, I wish I could do what you do. And I'm like, Well, you have to be willing to do what I do in order to be able to do what I do. Because it's not always it's not all sunshine and rainbows. Right? There's, you know, it's, it's, but I think, you know, from a mindset shift, understanding, hey, now I'm responsible for my success. You know, there's that that intrusive leadership that was ever present while we were in the military is gone. And understand that, you know, that's not your life anymore. Yeah. And that's another big thing, too. For me. That's why I got into something that was completely different than what I did in the military, I realized, hey, I need a clean break. That's going to be crucial for my own mental well being is to understand I don't, I don't I'm not Senior Chief Maxwell anymore. I even like when I call Navy, federal, and they call them and I'm like, Hey, could you stop calling me that? Could you just say, Mr. Maxwell, like, I'm retired. Sorry, sir. That's our, I make fun all the time on social media. But, you know, I was just like, that's, that was a chapter of my life. And I'm proud of what I've done. And I cherish, you know, the memories I have, and the friendships that I made there. However, that's, that's not me anymore. Now. I am. Yeah. Trevor Maxwell veteran, whatever. You know, so I think having that that mindset shift, you know, I don't have the expectation of, of, you know, people are going to give me free stuff. That's another one that I don't like, that seems to pervade a lot of the veteran communities are like, Oh, these guys, they give veterans this and that, like, I don't, I don't want people to give me things. Yeah, that's my mentality is like, I want to earn things. You know, well, you earned it as a result of your service, like, believe me, too. I was not doing that. So I could get free stuff. I was doing that. Because when I was a little kid, I saw guys jumping out of an airplane, you know, from 30,000 feet in the middle of the night. And I thought that looks cool. That's what I want to do when I grow up. Right. So I got my dream job, right. I realized when I was actually doing it, I was like, Man, that stuff looks a lot cooler than it feels in real life. Yeah, but yeah, for me, that was a big thing is just, Hey, that's not you anymore. Be proud of what you've done, you know, honor it, all that good stuff, but just, you know, you have to keep you can't, it's harder to move forward. If you keep looking back. So

yeah, yeah. And I know in the work that you're doing with military money, mistakes, I'm sure that this is something you speak on about or about a lot because, I mean, and actually, I'm curious from your perspective with the people with the military retirees or transitioning service members that you tend to talk to is it hard for them to make that mental shift like do they do they typically want to hold on to their rank and post military like because I think for you that's a that's a that is a very tremendous mindset shift. But even to this day, we'll see let's say like, we'll say like Vietnam veterans still wearing their their hats, you know, to show like, yeah, I served, you know, and so I'm curious in your observation and your work. Is that mental shift hard for most people you've spoken to?

Well, I'll say this. I do have a couple of that bro shirts and hats.

So just fine.

It's fine to embrace your status as a veteran. Right? I think that's okay. Yeah, you're a veteran, be proud of that. You're you're a part of a a select group, not. You know, the percentage of Americans in the US who are veterans? Is not that great. So? Yeah, I think I think it comes down to the individual to like, I just seem to think that, you know, a lot of the people that I talked to, yeah, I can't classify all of them, right. Some of them may, cause some are just like, Yeah, whatever. Some guys put, you know, whatever. Colonel view, SAF retired in their title. You know, I think some of them do that, because they know, hey, that gives me some credibility. You know, I just, I think it's harder for the career guys, because that's their life. I mean, up until I was, you know, from the age that I left, Fairmont, West Virginia, at the ripe old age of 17. until I retired when I, you know, week before I turned 38. That was my entire life. That's all I've ever known. Yeah. And there's a lot of other career, military people who are like that, think about how that done another 10 years, right. Yeah, you know, that just just increase it, right? Because you become I hate to use this word. But basically, you become institutionalized, you get used to that certain way of life. Some people embrace it, especially, you know, after 30 years. So I guess it comes down to an individual, like, do you seek internal or external validation? You know, what? Your own kind of personality traits? But I think, yeah, if if you can separate those two, if you can say, hey, I'm proud of my service, and what I've done, however, that doesn't define who I am. Yeah, that nonprofit that I coach at the Honor Foundation, that is the first thing that they focus on is this question. And a lot of the fellows who go through the program, they say, Oh, this is dumb, and I'm like, why are we doing this? Who am I? Right? Yeah, they say that at the beginning. 12 weeks later, at the end of the course, they all say that first part, that was the absolute best part of this entire course. And they come back and they tell the next class and the next class has the same attitude. But yeah, you have to find out because you know, I'm not seeing your chief Maxwell anymore. I'm me. You're I am true. And who is that? Understand? Yeah, it is. And that helps you figure out a lot of things about yourself.

Yeah, yeah. And I want to speak a little bit on the free stuff, you know, the goodwill that the civilian world tends to give like, veterans or in my case, like Gold Star family members, or just military family members. And it was interesting because growing up my mom, definitely as a as a millet as a career, or as a seasoned military spouse, she definitely took advantage of all the discounts or anything you can get as a military family. And it was interesting, when Scott and I started dating, because he did not want to take advantage of like VA disability or, you know, going to the, going to the commissary or going on base and taking advantage of all the things there. And, and it was like, it was very strange for me, because I was like, well, like you serve for it, you earned it, right? That's kind of the slogan, we say in our company. But I think for him, it was it's kind of like the principle of like, I think I think it's it's sort of like the mindset, it's like, if I buy into the if I get the free stuff, there's there's sort of like a lifestyle that comes with that, I think, and so I had to kind of learn the difference. And don't get me wrong, I still, you know, if it's free, it's for me, but like kind of recognizing that sometimes you have to take a bet on yourself, and some things are worth paying for. And so I'm curious if you had any any thoughts about that?

Full disclosure, I still get the 10% off at Lowe's. You know, I still sometimes use the veteran parking if it's the only one that's actually not really anymore. Most of the time, I'd rather Park way out in the back of the parking lot or find a tree or especially when it's hot out. I don't think it's bad to take advantage of that stuff. Especially like the career guys, when you've done 20 years and me my body, like you should hear me hear the sounds my body makes when I walk down the stairs in the morning. And I think for some people like those benefits, the something that I talked about in the course, like understanding the value of those benefits, especially like, you know, not just what you get from the VA, but from the state that you live in. Virginia is a very good state for veterans. tons of benefits worth, I mean, like, potentially could be worth millions of dollars. If you know how to quantify like, Hey, what is the value of those like? Yeah, that's benefits, education, health care stuff. So I think it's it's So, you know being now I think I know what I'm referring to is like the guys who are like, oh, we'll put on the uniform and go down to Applebee's on Veterans Day. Got it? You can't splurge 15 bucks for your Bourbon Street steak. Come on.

Right. Yeah, I think what I'm hearing from you is to each their own right. It's it, there's nothing wrong about it. Like I think about even my own mom. And after, after, you know, we lost her dad. And she was obviously a widow raising three kids like she would she took advantage of every military discount that was available, which was understandably so. And I think for I think for Scott, I mean, at least my observation of him, he can speak for on his own, I'm just speaking on my own observation, not what he's thinking, I don't know what he's thinking kind of half of the time. And, but it's more like, I think for him, it's more like the principle of like, wanting to make your own way, you know, and therefore he doesn't want to like that. That is why he kind of focuses more on being an entrepreneur versus let's say, like, you know, flashing the veteran card all the time. So, so it's just interesting, and I just thought it was worth mentioning. And I think kind of the takeaway I'm hearing from you, and even your interactions with other people is, you know, to each their own to each other out, it is what it is, it's just that in your in your story, you decided, you know, one that you're going to be a new person and post military life and to, you'll be, you know, you'll be selective on all the free stuff that you get.

Yeah, and I think about that, I'll just throw this out there too. And Scott can comment on it later. I think what Scott, his thing is, you know, he, I think maybe he feels like that makes him a little complacent. Right.

Ah, that makes sense. You know, just kind of like,

because he and I think a lot of like, like, I think, you know, you can't leave me and him on supervisory stuff, especially on something like this. Yeah. That's why we typically we have you on a lot of our calls.

Okay, guys, let's look over here. Guys.

toys. Oh, both with what?

No, seriously? No, it's It's funny, just being. It's always just funny. Like being in the chat when you guys go live and MRB or in military retirement blueprint, or just when you guys are talking? I'm just kinda like, okay, guys. But, but yeah, I like that. I like that. I mean, if we were to psychoanalyze him, which, you know, none of us are licensed to do this. But yeah, I like that. I like your perspective of, you know, he just doesn't want to be complacent. That makes a lot of sense. Like, he is a very, you know, he really wants to live a very purposeful life, you know, and that's what I admire and love about him and why I enjoy working with him. And so, you know, to be able to kind of, I think, in his mindset, like settle for certain free things or benefits in the military. It just like you said, it probably makes them feel complacent.

Yeah, I mean, that's just, that's just kind of, like, initial, like off the hip type thing, but I think it's pretty accurate.

Yeah, yeah. We, I mean, it's all just, we're all guessing here. We obviously don't know what goes on in his mind. Or, you know, we don't even know ourselves all the time. But, um, but anyway, yeah. So Well, thanks for indulging me with that. And, you know, it's a it's just really I you know, I think your your journey in the last five years has been really incredible, you know, the changes that you've made for, you know, as, as a as a new person and post military life. And one of the things that you have been working on with us about wealth is your your program, military money, mistakes. And, you know, like, what I think is so cool is when we all started working with Scott, like, obviously, we have, we have our own, like, we have the brand us that wealth, but But you and I kind of went our own way and wanted to create a brand, our own brand, our own personal brand, that could draw people to our company. And in this case for you, it's military money, mistakes, and I know you've been working on this for quite a long time. So for people that are hearing about it for the first time, what is military money mistakes?

So it's, it's what's the best way to tell you this, it's the culmination of the last five years of my experiences working with with transitioning military career military people, and actually being a career military person. And there's a reason I call it military money, mistakes and kind of the genesis of it, and I'll tell you the story, you know, as I got ready to retire, I knew was coming into this. And I got really interested, I took some extra finance classes, I was doing my MBA at the time. And you know, I started looking at, you know, the cost of some of the bad decisions that I had made about money because I've retired Navy, I've had some really nice trucks in my life. I've got a lot of really cool guns and my gun safe. What my when, when my when I had my, my moment was when I kind of looked back and said, hey, you know, I had years of my life where I was home for six months, and I racked for six months home for six months and now kamistan for. And I had all these times, I was coming back from these deployments for 30 or $40,000. I spent a year in Afghanistan, I came home, I had $80,000 in that bank. And I got out and I didn't really have anything to show for it. And I kept, you know, going back and looking like, hey, you know, so I went back and I looked, hey, all these bonuses that I had had, all of these times, I went on deployments, and I came back with money. And I, I, you know, was not smart with it. Like, what, what would that have turned into? Had I been smart with this? You know, when I retired? And what I came up with was, I probably could have retired with somewhere between seven and $900,000. And I thought, yeah, I mean, that would definitely put me in a lot better position than where I'm at now. And and so I started thinking about all the things you know, as I kind of worked in the industry, and I learned more and more and more about personal finance, I went to school, you know, got my CHF C designation. And it just kind of, you know, it's sort of like, Man, Man, I really screwed that up, like, how do I? How do I, how do I prevent other people from experiencing the same regret that I did. And at the same time, I made a made a keen observation, a lot of the people that I'm talking to these, these retired, these guys are getting out for 20 or 30 years, senior enlisted senior officers, I see them get out of the military go out and get their new job. And they immediately start making a lot of the same bad personal finance decisions that we see ie twos and threes that are new to the military making after they get back from their first deployment. And so I thought, Okay, well, you know, based on my own experiences, I kind of looked back and said, Hey, why, why did that happen? To me? It came down to two things. You know, first and foremost was, was I didn't understand how money worked. And the other thing was, I didn't have somebody who I trusted to help me get get started with putting together a strategy to, you know, to get me to where I, I should have been, you know, after after 20 years, and, and all those hundreds of 1000s of dollars that I essentially wasted on on, you know, on other things, so that was kind of the genesis of it. You know, I thought, right after retires, I come on a rant book. And that's Yeah, right after I retired, of course, that never panned out. And then I had just all these other ideas. Finally, probably, you know, it was around, I guess it would have been around last year. I just had this idea of, of putting together it started, like you and I, like started chatting. It started as kind of a pot an idea for a podcast, hey, what if I just took all this stuff that I knew about personal finance, and put it into a podcast, and started working. And then I think the real, the real thing that kind of changed the course Jen, and the momentum of the program was when we discovered mighty networks, right. And then I kind of saw what Scott was doing on here with all the SPP and tsp stuff, and I thought, why, you know, this seems like, this would be the perfect spot for all his military wanting mistakes things. Yeah. And so that's, that's kind of how the program came. The other thing that I learned too, was you know, how I, what is the best way to conduct the the Financial Services profession. So there's a lot of different ways of doing this. There's a lot of different types of professionals that work in the industry. The one that's really seemed to like me, and kind of appeal to my, you know, me being a former senior enlisted guy was kind of the that of the mentor, the coach, right, the teacher. And so I thought, Okay, well, I kind of liked that idea. It just kind of started working together, it's like, I could take this whole thing that you know, all these 30 Plus episodes of military money mistakes that I have planned that I can start turning it into a course. And then I can do coaching and I can have live events inside the space and, and do all these things. And so that's that's kind of how it worked. And so, you know, I put together kind of an outline for a curriculum. I got some guys I got some, some future and already retirees to kind of come in and sit through these to do kind of a proof of concept for the for the curriculum for the classes to see like, hey, is this Is this legit, does this fit what I'm trying to do here? And so now I've been taking that outline and putting that into a course, like an actual, you know, we have eight modules. And I think there's close to 40, close to 40 lessons, I think in those modules. And I've just been working on building all those out. And the intent is, somebody who's two years from retiring can come in and say, Well, you know, one of the things that I want to do when I retire is I want to get my finances straight, because my life is going to change significantly and then there, right it is, right? You've got a tremendous opportunity, when you get out and retire, and you go get another job, and you have your pension and your VA disability income, you have a huge opportunity to do something really good for yourself. And so my hope is, is that somebody comes in takes the course, they learn all this stuff about personal finance, because ultimately, you know, we have these, like, you know, if you're not watching the video, I'm holding up the cell phone, the industry has changed, the calculus has changed with regard to financial services, right? Ball is a lot more in the clients court. And, and they have a lot more resources available to them. So kind of what what I'm trying to do with the courses teach you good good habits with regards to personal finance, understand the tools that are out there, and how you can put together a, you know, quote, unquote, toolbox or whatever you want to call it like, like the war chests, it's, you know, it's got put together a box that has all the tools that you need to fix any problem that you encounter, I guess it's kind of a way of paraphrasing it, right? educating you on all the benefits that are available to you all the things that are out there that you can use to put together a cohesive strategy so that, you know, you can prepare yourself not just for retirement, because that's another big stink that I have about this industry is people always only talk about retirement. Well, right. You know, if I'm talking to somebody who's 35, or 40 years old, guess what, there's a lot of time in between now and then right, they probably have other things that they want to do. And so that's kind of what I'm hoping to do with military money, mistakes as people come in. They can do the course, you know, there's other, there's other stuff in there for them other resources at their disposal to kind of prepare themselves financially for military transition, so they can get through that and feel good about where they're at and the other side as well. Because, yeah, that's it's just, they don't understand how much of a lifestyle changes they're going to experience. And, you know, what's the best way to take advantage of that on the other side?

Yeah, and you know, I like how you started off with this idea of doing a book, and then you're like, oh, you know what, maybe I can flesh it out via podcasting. And then, you know, our company decided to, you know, use mighty networks and create our own online community or online platform. And what I like about what you're building out with your courses is that to me, it sounds like it's, it's just going to be more interactive, I feel like, you know, our service members will be able to learn more that way. And then the fact that they can have direct communication with you, and learn and learn in real time, I think is is pretty awesome. I think that would serve more than I mean, for, you know, for those independent learners, yeah, you can, you know, if you had a book that would be convenient for them, but, you know, considering that transition is a big deal for every service member to be able to have you as a mentor and as a guide, and taking them through these courses, I think I think is, I think it's right, I think it's right for our community.

Yeah. And to be honest with you, it's basically like I am writing a book right now. I don't know if you've gone on there and seen a the classes that I've made.

That's very elaborate. You've done a tremendous job, by the way. Yeah, I think that you built it out in a way that like Scott wanted for his stuff, but like, but but like, you know how Scott is, but like, the fact that you you really stuck it out. And you're you're just building it out, I think is incredible. And I think that, you know, anyone that goes through it will will get a lot of value, because it is very organized and well thought out for sure. I mean, you've been thinking about this for a long time now, you know, to see it manifest in in courses, I think is incredible.

And I've still got a lot of work to go. But it is it's I'll tell you this my favorite job. And I mean, like being a team chief was awesome. But probably the job that I enjoyed the most. When I was still active duty. I was an instructor at the EOD training unit on fourth storey in Virginia Beach. And I taught nukes, nuclear weapons, radiological hazards, stuff like that. And I loved it. The thing that I loved about it was I was able to take all of these complex, complicated things like like nuclear physics, and break it down into you know, stuff, you know, lessons that were easy to understand, like digestible. Yeah. Right. And people like that, like, you know, a lot of people, Hey, I like his classes, you know, nukes division, like we always got pretty good. You know, we were one of the better reviewed divisions or like when a team goes through training, they're like, Hey, I love the guys at nukes. I love the fact that they were there for us no matter what, like, if a team was having trouble, we'd come in on weekends and work with them. But I just loved being a teacher, I love being an instructor. And I thought, yeah, okay, I can apply a lot of that stuff that I learned from doing that, yeah, into this. And I'm trying to do the same thing where I'm taking, you know, all these, that's the other thing that I don't like about a lot of the personal finance stuff that's out there today. It's, it's almost like they're trying to confuse people so that they feel like they have to use you to help them implement these options. I want to get away from that. I want to say, Hey, this is not as complicated as it seems, let me break it down to you in a way that hopefully you can understand better. And you know, the other thing too, and my hope with this is that not only will the the transitioning service member, go through this course and learn everything, but so will their spouse. That, to me is one of the hugest because it's you know, a lot of guys don't realize, hey, it's not just you that's transitioning, right? It's your entire family. And the information that you get, you know, it's, it's, it does better if everybody else has the same information as well, right. And because that's, you know, there's all this stuff. It was Oh, yeah. transitioning service member transitioning service members. I don't hear that many people talking about transitioning spouses. Yeah. And so that's something that I really want to hammer on. Like when I'm in, they're doing live events inside the course, when it's up and running. It's like, hey, you know, have this conversation. And I think maybe that's you just gave me an idea. I'm gonna write this down real quick. I want to put a little icon in there.

Love it, the power of active listening,

icon for conversation with spouse. So one of the things that I talk about one of the modules is estate planning. And I make an analogy in there that's similar to real estate investing, which I've also done for a number of years. Everybody who does real estate investing, they say, yeah, one of the first things you have to do is build your Power team who is on your team, there's you there's a realtor, there's a mortgage broker, there's a property and casualty. Same thing with estate planning, but one of the things that I talked about in the course, is the primary member of your Power Team shouldn't be your spouse.

Yeah, that's just

something that same thing, when you're doing military transition, you need to have a Power team, what does the Power Team look like? Some sort of financial services professional, you're, you know, a VSO to help you get through all that stuff. You know, maybe you're moving, maybe you need help with your resume, whatever nonprofit organizations can be part of your Power team. But you know, first and foremost, you know, who's who's the one, one member of the team that you're going to have most FaceTime with all the time? Spouse? So?

Yeah, yeah, I do appreciate you incorporating the spouse. And I know, that's one of the reasons why you had me join you with your podcast at the time, I feel like speaking to the spouse is like an ongoing, I'm gonna, for the lack of better term, I'm gonna say it's an ongoing challenge for us to speak directly to the spouse because it just, I think, learning how to communicate that I think, in general, like the military, you know, gives information directly to the service member, rightfully so. And a lot of times, the spouse gets second hand information. And so that being said, it is this ongoing journey of how do we make this information digestible for the military spouse, you know, so that they can make a confident and informed decision? And, you know, they're not looking at us as though we're, you know, we're scamming them or something, you know, because we definitely have come across those types of conversations or skepticism. And, and it's understandable, because, you know, we are not the government option we are, we are, you know, we're alternative education that is of benefit. It's just that because it's not as accessible. It's a little harder to think to get across. And so I like that, you know, that's important for you to incorporate in your education is the military spouse.

Yeah. And I think you're right, like, it's been my experience that you know, a lot of times the spouse doesn't want to talk to you at all, that's you, you're you want to do that like but then you have to get them to understand like, hey, look, you know, with a lot of these decisions, financial decisions have to be made during your transition. Guess what? The reason it's so important for your spouse to be educated on this is because they're the ultimate approval. or denial authority on that?

And beneficiary? Yeah.

Right, they need to understand what that is for them. So, you know, I try to do that a lot. And hopefully, like, having some of that stuff in there will will also encourage the spouse to come in and take, and, you know, a lot of it because like you said, right, there's the trust factor, the spouse, or all these years, you know, is there been everything military, military, military, you know, that stuff's going to be going. So they need, it's a transition for them to they need to kind of learn to say, like, Hey, you're going back to the private sector, it's not just them, you, you are going with them? You know, it's, but I think it's different, you know, if you have a spouse who's already been working, and has their own career and all that stuff, you know, maybe it's a little bit easier for the spouses who maybe didn't have a career, whatever, you know, their career was like, Hey, he goes out and does all that stuff, I'm gonna stay here and take care of the family and take care of the household. You know, that's it, it's just, it's, it's getting him to understand like, hey, all that stuff is going away. And you know, you can't. And I think the other piece, too, is understanding like, hey, that the government option isn't necessarily the best option. Right, right. The advantage that that option has over a lot of the other ones is typically you don't have to qualify for it. Right. So what's your kind of, you know, you kind of look at it, as, you know, how good does free cheese taste? Or whatever the you know, how good does the free cheese actually taste? Right. So, yeah, so yeah,

exactly. And, you know, I think, for me, like my ongoing journey is trying to approach us in a delicate way, where it's not necessarily speaking down on the spouse or, you know, acting like speaking as though like, they don't know anything, it's it's just finding, trying to find that delicate balance, and that in the end the right verbiage and language to say, hey, like, at the end of the day, this is about you. And this is, this is not an attack on you, or this, you know, this is actually like we want to help you like we want to give you not secondhand information, but firsthand information. And so I think that's just going to be that's just a constant ongoing journey that we're on. And I think no matter what we're going to keep trying, even if even if we have hiccups about it, like we're going to try anyway, because the spouse is the cornerstone of our military families.

And I think one of the bad one of the other things that we have to do a line of effort for us, is countering some of the bad information that's out there. Because there's certainly a lot of that like that we've we've seen several times where, you know, whenever somebody's like, Well, I was talking to these people in this Facebook group, and I'm just like, Alright, I've done that enough times to where I, you have to have like a little bit of pushback on that. Right? You have to be able to say like, look, you know, who is this Facebook group? Well, it's, you know, other spouses, like, how many of those spouses are, you know, what, whatever, right? You know, it's, it's, because in this day and age, yes, you have access to more information than anybody's ever had in history, but you also have more access to bad information, right, as well, that, you know, it's tough, like, Who do you trust? Right? So I think that's one of the things for me, as you know, don't try to pretend to be somebody I'm not. That's one of the first things I usually tell people is like, Hey, if you need somebody that wears a suit and tie and drives a Porsche, then you know, I'm absolutely not the right person for you. But if you're comfortable working with, with a guy who works from home and wears PT gear all day, and I can still do the same things that all that other guy does.

It's just Exactly, yeah. Just a little more real. Well, Trevor, I know that we both have to Oh, sorry. Go ahead and finish it.

Oh, no, no, that's Yeah. Normally kind of what I like to tell is kind of like an icebreaker. Somebody's like, what do you do differently than other financial advisors? i My response is usually why probably use a lot more cuss words. And other than that,

no, awesome. Well, Trevor, I know that we both have to get to meetings here in a little bit. So I just want to make sure that you shared everything you want to share any final thoughts you want to share with our community, our career military families, you know, our veteran or military retirees or seasoned spouses? Any any parting words for them?

Yeah, I guess really, it's it's don't be afraid to ask for help. You know, there's one of the things military transition is tough. And but one thing that I've noticed if there's one thing the last five years have taught me is that veterans love helping other veterans veterans love helping future veterans. So So there's, there's help out there. Just don't be afraid to ask for it. And, you know, take the initiative to start looking for it. So and hopefully, part of what we're doing here with with Portal is one of those resources that you're they're able to use because really, I think ultimately, it's it's all about sharing information. And my big thing is like, do we give you enough information to make a well informed decision?

Yeah, absolutely. And the best part of what we're offering is it's free. You know, since military likes free, figured I'd put that out there. Yeah. Well, awesome. Well, Trevor, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for taking the time to be on hold on the fourth. I look forward to being on your show or whatever collaborations we do again in the future. And it was really nice to have you share our stories or share your story today. So thank you.

Yeah, appreciate you having me on. And yeah, we will get a want to get the live. Military money mistakes live going again. Wonderful to have you on as well. So

cool. I appreciate it. All right. And to our listeners, thank you so much for listening. We'll chat with you in the next episode. Till next time,

take care of anyone.

Okay, give me one second.