Shownotes
Does This Sound Like You (ever)?
- I feel awkward and uncomfortable talking about my faith with others.
- I tried in the past and it never ended well.
- I hated friends trying to “jam their religion down my throat” before I was a Christian.
- I’m worried that I might ruin my friendships if I bring up Jesus or spiritual things.
In This Episode You’ll Learn:
- What is at the root of our fears and relational weirdness
- 3 Quick Tips to beat the fear of rejection
- Top reasons people seem so hesitant to talk about spiritual things
- Why it's important to take a much longer view of “evangelism”
Each week the Big 3 will give you immediate action steps to get you started.
Download today’s BIG 3 right now. Read and think over them again later. You might even want to share them with others…
Thanks for Listening!
Thanks so much for joining us again this week. Have some feedback you’d like to share? Join us on Facebook and take part in the discussion! If you enjoyed this episode, please share it using the social media buttons you see at the top of this page or right below. Also, please subscribe and leave an honest review for The Everyday Disciple Podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. Ratings and reviews are extremely helpful and greatly appreciated! They do matter in the rankings of the show, and we read each and every one of them. Links and Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Discipleship as a Lifestyle Virtual Workshop Coaching with Caesar and Tina in discipleship and missional living. Missio Publishing – More Missional Books and Resources
Transcripts
I love me.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so why would I risk you not loving me perfectly in the moment or rejecting me?
Caesar Kalinowski:Huh?
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Talking about fear of rejection or not agreeing with me or what if we got into an argument and you actually won?
Caesar Kalinowski:See, so love of self closes my mouth a lot and I, and it gets, it gets wrapped up under the banner of fear of rejection, but it's really love of self.
Caesar Kalinowski:I love me more than I love you.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I won't share the faith because if you were to reject me or my message.
Caesar Kalinowski:or my methods.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's a, that reflects on me and my value and my identity.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now that's heavy.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like I tried sharing something with you and because it's important to me and heavy and you didn't agree.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now I feel horrible about me and I love me.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I just won't.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't want to risk it.
Caesar Kalinowski:I can't risk it.
Caesar Kalinowski:I can't risk it.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know what I mean?
Caesar Kalinowski:For sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, I love me.
Caesar Kalinowski:Why would I risk me not looking awesome all the time?
Heath Hollensbe:Welcome to the Everyday Disciple Podcast where you'll learn how to live with greater
Heath Hollensbe:intentionality and an integrated faith
Heath Hollensbe:that naturally fits into every area of life.
Heath Hollensbe:In other words, discipleship as a lifestyle.
Heath Hollensbe:This is the stuff your parents, pastors, and seminary professors probably forgot to tell you.
Heath Hollensbe:And now, here's your host, Caesar Kalinowski.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey o Good to be back together.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hope you're having a good day.
Caesar Kalinowski:I've been pretty good.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm fighting some sort of a bug.
Caesar Kalinowski:You might hear it in my voice.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't know what are you going to do, but I'm excited about our episode today.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I wanted to come on.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey, but right off the bat, I have a couple of questions for you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:First quickly, did you register for the discipleship as a lifestyle virtual workshop yet?
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm doing it this week, and depending on when you hear this episode, and if you don't wait, you can still join me and start to make every relationship and rhythm of your life a natural opportunity for your discipleship and disciple making.
Caesar Kalinowski:You wanna join TN Me for this foundational training?
Caesar Kalinowski:I hope so.
Caesar Kalinowski:You can get all the info on that and register now, depending on when you go.
Caesar Kalinowski:But go right away and go to everyday disciple.com/lifestyle.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's everydaydisciple.
Caesar Kalinowski:com forward slash lifestyle.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hope you'll join me for that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Next question for you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Have you ever done a media fast?
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm thinking about doing one.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's why I'm asking.
Caesar Kalinowski:In fact, you can go in our Facebook group and, uh, let me know if you've ever done one, what the benefits were, how that went, but I love checking in on the news throughout the day.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I watch a few favorite commentators most days, but everything is so crazy negative and dark right now.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think I've brought this up before, but I'm feeling like the more I check the news and social media, the darker my heart and my outlook on things is feeling.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that goes in direct opposition to my belief in the gospel as the good news for everything in life.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm actually thinking about going on a media fast for maybe a few months.
Caesar Kalinowski:To see if my heart and my outlook improve.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't know.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'd love your thoughts.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not like staying super informed these days on the crazy and dark news and politics of the day.
Caesar Kalinowski:It gives me so much to talk about with folks.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know the old saying, if you want to make or keep friends and influence people, don't bring up politics or religion.
Caesar Kalinowski:That seems more and more true.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't know.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't really live with that fear so much, but I don't know if being informed with all the darkness that's just never ending on news and social is helping me.
Caesar Kalinowski:And all of this actually plays right into the topic today that Heath and I are talking about this, having the fear of rejection.
Caesar Kalinowski:Here, take a listen.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think this topic is one that is, gosh, man, I get people writing me all the time about it.
Caesar Kalinowski:The fear of rejection.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, like, no one loves the bullhorn guy on the corner.
Caesar Kalinowski:We call that evangelism.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or they think of Billy Graham, uh, you know, up on a stage and go like, well, I can never do that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, we can probably not call too, you know, but when it even just comes to like normal everyday life, like that person's really hurting and I really care for them.
Caesar Kalinowski:So it's not even out of a weird sense obligation.
Caesar Kalinowski:I really just want to share Jesus with them.
Caesar Kalinowski:I want to share my faith.
Caesar Kalinowski:People really have the fear of rejection.
Caesar Kalinowski:They were like, oh my gosh, like what?
Caesar Kalinowski:And I always hear it.
Caesar Kalinowski:If I do, it could ruin my friendship forever.
Caesar Kalinowski:How close is your friendship?
Caesar Kalinowski:That is a big topic.
Caesar Kalinowski:And when we're thrust into opportunities, like the holidays just provided us, that's even more so because family members, they're the hardest people to speak truth to.
Caesar Kalinowski:And all of our family members are in Christ and believe and, you know, we have friends over for holidays.
Caesar Kalinowski:So as we move further now into the new year, I think this is a, this is a Killer topic all the time, how to beat the fear of rejection, and I got some stuff today we're gonna talk about that's gonna really really help.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, the thing that is always interesting to me is how much growing up even in the church this concept of sharing your faith was It's like a mode that you step into right?
Heath Hollensbe:It's not a natural rhythm of life.
Heath Hollensbe:It's more We're going to teach you the systems.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now it's time to transition.
Caesar Kalinowski:Here's a book of transitional statements.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:I can remember, so, and this is a guy I love who I've written about in my books, , and he mentored me and he still does.
Caesar Kalinowski:I was just with him last month and he's just a beautiful old saint.
Caesar Kalinowski:But when I was a young saint, he took me and some other guys out and taught us how to Share Our Faith, How to Witness.
Caesar Kalinowski:And he took us to the mall , and we went to a Kinney's Shoes, okay?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, people don't even know what that is, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't think it exists anymore.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't think so.
Caesar Kalinowski:But we go in there And there's this like teenage kid working in the shoe store at the mall and, and, and my buddy, Pastor Johnny, you know, he, he picks up a shoe and he looks at it and he goes, is that a good shoe?
Caesar Kalinowski:And the kid's like, yeah, I guess so.
Caesar Kalinowski:And they're all pretty good, I guess.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, he's just working there.
Caesar Kalinowski:He's a high school kid, you know, minimum wage.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, exactly.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like two, two 15 an hour back then, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:And he's, he's like, so is that, does that have a good soul on it?
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh, geez.
Caesar Kalinowski:And the kid's like, I don't know, I guess so.
Caesar Kalinowski:And he goes, I think that soul's like, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:and the guy's like, well I don't know about forever.
Caesar Kalinowski:He goes, you know, we have a soul and it lasts forever.
Caesar Kalinowski:And this is how we transition to, this is a great guy.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I've, I've joked him about that ever since it was like, ah, thanks for showing me maybe one way I might not ever want to.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I just, I remember that kid's face and I feel so, and I was like his age and I feel so bad.
Caesar Kalinowski:I felt so bad for that guy.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, well, how are you supposed to answer this?
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, and I'm sure we left him with a track or something, you know, but God forbid you actually buy a shoe, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Anyway.
Caesar Kalinowski:But yeah, so people have all kinds of weird phobias about stuff like that and there again I did too after that I was like, that's what I got to do I go to the mall and I got to come up with these pithy transitions.
Heath Hollensbe:Is your life laced with Jesus?
Caesar Kalinowski:Exactly.
Heath Hollensbe:Well, that's actually a fascinating concept because there's constantly like change when people are thinking through different ways or methods of sharing your faith and there's opinions and there's ministries and there's there's a Websites that teach you tons of different types But regardless of method and motives There's a universal reason that most people don't seem to share their faith very often like we're just talking about
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep, and that's the fear of rejection.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, so what does fear of rejection look like in sharing faith?
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, I think there is like sort of that transitional thing because it's an event, like you said, it's like, okay, um, we're watching the game and now it's time to share my faith.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Halftime.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:But we don't, we don't put anything else in life.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, you know, guys like you want to give me a slice of pizza and now it's time to share my health tips, you know, or whatever, you know, we might have health tips or we might just bust in there, but it's natural.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so I think.
Caesar Kalinowski:People feel awkward, and they just do.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, because we've been taught, like, and now we're going into sales mode.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're gonna close the sale.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, or that's the hope.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's never just like, hey, I wonder if I have good news to that bad news that guy just shared, or the situation in his life I could see is bad news, and And we have enough relationship where I probably get to say something there, you know, in love to the friend, this guy or gal, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And so we feel awkward.
Caesar Kalinowski:We feel uncomfortable about it because it feels like we're, like you said, switching gears into some other mode.
Caesar Kalinowski:Some people will say, um, and here's why they have fear of rejection.
Caesar Kalinowski:They'll say, you will, you know, I've tried this in the past and it's never gone well.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's a comedian,
Caesar Kalinowski:. I think it's Gaffigan he says something about the one thing that no one ever wants to hear like is hey Let me talk to you about Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski:He says it could be the Pope and you're like, hey Pope Like let me talk to you about Jesus like easy freak, you know, chill out.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, right It's just it feels very awkward And when you've tried it in the past people just shut it down and there again It's because you've just shifted into some weird Unnatural mode and it does not sound like good news.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and it was like, well, yeah, but that's, that's them or they're not being drawn.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or it's not their time.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, well, that might be true.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we'll talk a little bit about timing and things like that.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's really not normally it's the people and that's why, but people have that.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's really like I tried in the past.
Caesar Kalinowski:It never ended well.
Caesar Kalinowski:, the other thing is they can still say, I can remember, Others in my life before I became a Christian trying to, quote, jam their faith down my throat.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, that's the phrase.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't know how we landed on that one as a subculture, but it's like, yeah, no one wants you to jam their faith down their throat.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm like, What would that, what does that mean?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, how horrible would that be?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, I, I remember one time I was at a bar and I tied a guy down, you know, I had my buddy sit on his chest and then I jammed my, you know, like, you know, faith down.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's such a weird experience.
Caesar Kalinowski:I never thought about that.
Caesar Kalinowski:But you've heard it, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh, absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Everybody's like, Oh, so I remember people trying to jam their, and you know what?
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, Oh, you know, I was there that time when our sister tried to quote, jam her faith down your throat.
Caesar Kalinowski:She's just like, you know, there might be a better way.
Caesar Kalinowski:We were, I just heard someone talking about that the other day at church, like, Oh, don't be trying to jam.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're like, wait, I don't know.
Caesar Kalinowski:So yeah, so, and then like I already mentioned, people are really worried that it's going to somehow ruin their relationships.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I've just, I have not found that one to be true in reality.
Caesar Kalinowski:I've never had anybody where even if I sucked at it and I transitioned badly or, you know, I got into crazy weird mode.
Caesar Kalinowski:I've just never found, I was like, that's it.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're done.
Caesar Kalinowski:Can't be friends.
Heath Hollensbe:There should be like a more of an organic kind of approach, right?
Heath Hollensbe:Like I'm a father and a husband and I love soccer.
Heath Hollensbe:And so if you hang out enough with me, I don't, I don't switch into mode of like, let me tell you how much I love my wife, or let me tell you how much I love.
Heath Hollensbe:It just naturally comes out in conversation.
Heath Hollensbe:It should be the same way with our faith, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think so.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So what
Heath Hollensbe:do you think the top
Caesar Kalinowski:reasons are that?
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, so those are the situations that I hear, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:But there's always the thing behind the thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I think the thing behind the thing, the reasons that people don't share their faith is, and I'll just break them down into three, there's probably more, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:But I think these are the big three.
Caesar Kalinowski:I've given this a lot of thought is, um, and it's going to be hard.
Caesar Kalinowski:Some of our listeners are going to like, okay, I'm tuning out, tuning out now.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, here's the, here's the biggest reason.
Caesar Kalinowski:Love of self.
Caesar Kalinowski:I actually love me.
Caesar Kalinowski:A lot.
Caesar Kalinowski:Heath.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like I love me.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm great.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like I'm probably the greatest guy I know.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, that's fine.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think the same thing about myself.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:. I love me.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so why would I risk you not loving me perfectly in the moment or rejecting me, huh?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Talking about fear of rejection.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um.
Caesar Kalinowski:or not agreeing with me, or what if we got into an argument and you actually won.
Caesar Kalinowski:See, so love of self closes my mouth a lot.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I, and it gets, it gets wrapped up under the banner of fear of rejection, but it's really love of self.
Caesar Kalinowski:I love me more than I love you.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I won't share the faith because if you were to reject me or my message or my methods that's a that reflects on me And my value and my identity now, that's heavy.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, absolutely Right, like I tried sharing something with you and because it's important to me and heavy and you didn't agree now I feel horrible about me.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm, and I love me So I just won't.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't want to risk it.
Caesar Kalinowski:I can't risk it.
Caesar Kalinowski:I can't risk it, you know.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, and, and, and that's an, there's an identity tie there, you know, like, it's like, if I say to you, like, you know, Packers suck, you know, sorry for you Packers fans, whatever, I'm from Chicago originally, or whatever, you know, pick a team, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you go like, no way, I love the Pack, you know, I'm not going like, oh, my identity was just thrashed by Heath.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:We like, well, we like different teams because we grew up in different areas, you know what I mean?
Caesar Kalinowski:For sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:But we, so, I love me.
Caesar Kalinowski:Why would I risk me not looking awesome all the time?
Caesar Kalinowski:That's, that's the biggest reason.
Caesar Kalinowski:Next thing is, uh, you know, I kind of mentioned earlier is, um, we get into something and it couldn't just be like, here's an opinion or here's some good news.
Caesar Kalinowski:We feel like it has to be linked to closing the sale.
Caesar Kalinowski:And what I mean by closing the sale is I got to get them saved.
Caesar Kalinowski:I got to get them to say the Jesus in their heart prayer right now.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And like we're watching football with some friends.
Caesar Kalinowski:And if I start quote, sharing my faith, I haven't closed a deal.
Caesar Kalinowski:I gotta close it, you know, and so this is gonna sound like anathema to some of our listeners But guess what?
Caesar Kalinowski:We were never once ever commanded to get anybody saved.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's God's job We weren't and we put that on us like the church that I grew up in and I know that I've worked for and you know We work amongst and there's plenty of you know of our brethren out there and sisters It's like that's our big goal got to get out and get people saved Jesus never once said go do that He said go make disciples Which is very different.
Caesar Kalinowski:Very different.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's a lifestyle.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's a whole process of years of being in community and family together.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, never once did Jesus go up to his disciples and go, Hey, Peter, Andrew, it's time to invite me into your heart.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, let's say a prayer to do that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Never.
Caesar Kalinowski:It just, it's goofy.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I know some others are starting to talk about that.
Caesar Kalinowski:10 years ago, we used to say this, we'd get kicked out of places, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:But, but imagine now you're, you have a friend.
Caesar Kalinowski:or a relative, and you, you go, wow, bad news in their life, let me share some good news, but you've got this crazy weight of, and now I've got to get them saved, I've got to close the deal, and every time it's linked to that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, and there's always
Heath Hollensbe:a guilt element too, like, I mean, I, what was pushed on me growing up was this whole like, well, If you don't do it today, man, what if, what if they drive home and get, get
Caesar Kalinowski:in a wreck?
Caesar Kalinowski:It's the whole youth group close.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:They die tonight.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:You didn't, you didn't close the deal.
Caesar Kalinowski:Shame on you for not saving.
Caesar Kalinowski:So there again, it's like, and your sovereignty was thwarted, you know, like, and I, you know, I've told people like, like we do the story of God, you know, and it takes weeks in community.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:People are like, yeah, but you don't talk about Jesus till like week five or six.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:When he comes up in the story and yeah, but why don't you go, you know, close the deal?
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm like, you know, like, well.
Caesar Kalinowski:Cause we're doing a story, you know, and he's really the whole story.
Caesar Kalinowski:But yeah, but what if they died a night on the way home?
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, you know, then God knew they were gonna, I'm not being callous there.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm just like, God is sovereign.
Caesar Kalinowski:He alone saves.
Caesar Kalinowski:He alone draws people.
Caesar Kalinowski:He grants faith.
Caesar Kalinowski:Scripture says, then he will sustain people's lives until that time when he's going to do all that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And he might gonna, he might use us to do that as well.
Caesar Kalinowski:And part of that might be tonight.
Caesar Kalinowski:We'll talk a little bit more about having a longer view, but yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Could you imagine Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're going to have the fear of rejection when One, I really love me a lot or secondly, there's a lot of weight on this.
Caesar Kalinowski:I got to close the deal.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now it feels like sales.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's kind of icky too.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, for sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:It feels slimy.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's kind of like the Amway close, you know, like I was like, Hey Heath, I noticed you have hand soap in your bathroom.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, like nothing so surprising there.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey, can I talk to you about a business opportunity I recently, you know, it's like, Oh, here we go, you know, right.
Caesar Kalinowski:So that's how that feels sometimes.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then I think maybe, uh.
Caesar Kalinowski:The third reason is, is people don't know what to say at all.
Caesar Kalinowski:They just don't.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, we've been taught, like, our faith and the gospel and understanding the Bible through a language, like at church, that we understand.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it brings great value to us, you know, great, got a great preacher, our pastor's amazing, he unpacks, he expounds like crazy, I learned so much about the Bible from this guy, right, with him, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:But then I go, but it's in a language and in a manner and a method, I don't, that doesn't work with my friends on the couch, or a guy at a pub, or my neighbor, you know, when we're working on his lawnmower together or something, you know what I mean?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, like most of those
Heath Hollensbe:conversations are so one sided, right?
Heath Hollensbe:Like, the, the approach to Sell your faith or share your faith is this concept of hey Don't it doesn't matter what their story says like you've got the answer to their and here's
Caesar Kalinowski:the presentational.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, and
Heath Hollensbe:they're going like, okay Well, these three points don't really fit with Kind of my life story or you know, there's there's the system has to be adapted to the mess It's like the
Caesar Kalinowski:messenger has exactly and so we don't know what to say and we use a term It's called gospel fluency So, you know people don't have high gospel fluency and the reason we say fluency is it's like Fluency is having like I'm really skilled in a language where I can communicate accurately and easily and people understand what I'm talking about Right, so if I was learning Spanish You know, or Portuguese or something to be like, Hey, am I fluent in that enough to use it and feel confident in it?
Caesar Kalinowski:And I don't think Christians feel that they're fluent in the gospel.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like it's like what you're just saying heath It's like i've got a presentational thing and here's some here's some lists Here's bullet point list of things i'm going to go through But that has nothing to do with the fact you just lost your job or your wife said I I this is it I want a divorce like what's the good news?
Caesar Kalinowski:Is there good news?
Caesar Kalinowski:Does the gospel speak into that?
Caesar Kalinowski:It does it really does for sure and it's not just Some pat answer.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well,
Heath Hollensbe:you know, it's another side of the whole spiritual schizophrenia that we talked about in episode one, right?
Heath Hollensbe:It's weird when you have a friend for Two, three months and you're hanging out and all of a sudden you put on this presentation mode and it's like, what the
Caesar Kalinowski:heck?
Caesar Kalinowski:Wait.
Caesar Kalinowski:Your life doesn't, where'd that guy come from?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Where'd he come from?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:So, uh, one of the things that Hugh Halter says, it's kind of fascinating, is he wrote in one of his books that when he becomes friends with people that aren't faith people, yet, not yet believers, he plans on it taking about five years for them to see and hear enough about Jesus and his kingdom.
Heath Hollensbe:to come to faith in him.
Heath Hollensbe:We have more of, like you said, the presentation.
Heath Hollensbe:Let me give it one shot, 30 minutes, if that doesn't work.
Heath Hollensbe:Or 30 seconds.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, right, 30 seconds.
Heath Hollensbe:What do you think about this, the long range approach when it comes to disciple
Caesar Kalinowski:making?
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, you know, he's a good friend of mine.
Caesar Kalinowski:Love the guy.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think He's absolutely right.
Caesar Kalinowski:We need to see not just these moments, and God does give them to us, right, where the door is, it's open, and it's time, and you can tell it's time to have a different type of conversation with someone, right, and a lot of things have to be right for that, because it's big, you know, it's big stuff.
Caesar Kalinowski:But there again, it's, if you take off the shelf, off the table, this idea that, and so now we're going to talk about spiritual things, or we're going to talk about Jesus here for a second, or maybe for longer than that.
Caesar Kalinowski:If you take off the table, And I have to close the deal.
Caesar Kalinowski:If you just take that off and you start thinking, no discipleship, that's a longer game.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's why he was saying he kind of figures five years to build relationship and trust.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I think all of life, every conversation, times together are happy and sad moments.
Caesar Kalinowski:They're all filled with the opportunity to both display.
Caesar Kalinowski:The gospel and proclaim it.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's great.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:They're all full of the, and, and, and I know there are, there are some out there that would say, you can't display the gospel.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's not true.
Caesar Kalinowski:Otherwise, we wouldn't have the in incarnation.
Caesar Kalinowski:Jesus came to put flesh on and he says, now if you've seen my f, if you've seen me, you've seen the father.
Caesar Kalinowski:If you know me, you know my father.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, dad, I only do what dad, I've seen Dad do.
Caesar Kalinowski:I only say what I've heard him say, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And so now that changes everything again, doesn't it?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like taking a longer view that I'm going to have to build relationship, I'm going to have to build trust, and there's going to be loads of opportunities for people to see and taste and hear and experience the good news of the gospel, what's true of God.
Caesar Kalinowski:And what's now true of us because of that, that we begin to trust that and move from unbelief to belief.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I'm gonna, I'm gonna say that a lot because that's what discipleship is, it's moving from unbelief to belief.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that's generally, and it's surprising to some folks when I say this, but it's generally a person's unbelief to belief.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, leap, it's not often the first leap is, I just went from full on atheist to like, my first leap of unbelief to belief is, and now I believe that I'm a dirty, rotten sinner in need of a savior, and I'm gonna put my hope and faith in Christ and his work on the cross.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's, usually there's some unbelief to belief movements, i.
Caesar Kalinowski:e.
Caesar Kalinowski:discipleship, which is evangelism, that come way before that, like, hey, maybe God's real.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, maybe God is big, because I'm seeing it in your life.
Caesar Kalinowski:Maybe he's worthy of trust.
Caesar Kalinowski:Maybe he's generous, because the way you guys live and have treated me, God must be generous.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you say that's why you are, because it's really not yours that you're giving, it's his, and you're just sharing.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so there's these cliques, like of unbelief to belief, that are all part of proclaiming the gospel and sharing our faith.
Caesar Kalinowski:They really are.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I say that the kingdom moves at the speed of relationship.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, which is great.
Caesar Kalinowski:And the gospel then moves at the speed of trust.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:So as I build relationships, the kingdom, the roads, like inroads are expanding, and as I build trust in those relationships, and we do life together, that's where the gospel then now can come to be seen, tasted, heard.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, you know,
Heath Hollensbe:um, one of the stories that's kind of fascinating.
Heath Hollensbe:This was just actually this week for me is, uh, we have a neighbor who, uh, literally next door, drug house.
Heath Hollensbe:There's a father being abused.
Heath Hollensbe:It was really terrible situation.
Heath Hollensbe:Yikes.
Heath Hollensbe:So we stepped in to the need, right?
Heath Hollensbe:We never had a game plan to share a faith, but hey, this, this 85 year old man, Ralph, his, his yard is.
Heath Hollensbe:Going crazy, and we went over one day and just mowed his yard.
Heath Hollensbe:I was mowing mine.
Heath Hollensbe:It was like, yeah, it just makes sense Let's let's do that.
Heath Hollensbe:Boom.
Heath Hollensbe:And one of the police officers in the community showed up a couple weeks later and said man I've noticed just in the way that you're being a decent neighbor that there's something different about you Why would you do that for somebody?
Heath Hollensbe:Nobody does that And you're right, it's not, I had no agenda, no plan, but it's just by being a decent human being that a lot of times, letting your faith, when you actually are viewing yourself as a servant, because Jesus was a servant, and called us to do the same, that when we actually live as courteous neighbors, because we want to be like Jesus, that sometimes it's faith, the fact that a police officer was driving by and saw that, I could never have calculated
Caesar Kalinowski:that, but I think.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right, and then he would take the time to pull over and say, Hey, something's going on here.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, that's got to work.
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because I know you're not that cool guy.
Caesar Kalinowski:But, but, but that's exactly right.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's a great illustration of that.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's a great illustration.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let me, let me land something on us that It changed a lot for me in this idea of sharing my faith and evangelism and sort of beating the fear of rejection.
Caesar Kalinowski:Go for it.
Caesar Kalinowski:In John 8, uh, Jesus says, the truth will set you free, and we love that.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's like a favorite Christian verse, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, it's our favorite Bible verse, especially when you're trying to win an argument, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, truth will set you free, brother.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, and uh, But we, we, we often don't back up and get the whole verse.
Caesar Kalinowski:And the verse paraphrased a little bit.
Caesar Kalinowski:So this, this is really close, but I'm just going to paraphrase for the sake of clarity here.
Caesar Kalinowski:Jesus says in that verse, if you just back up same verse, he says, if you'll be my disciple, truly be my disciple, i.
Caesar Kalinowski:e.
Caesar Kalinowski:walk in my ways, live my life, then you will come to know the truth and the truth will set you free.
Caesar Kalinowski:Huh?
Caesar Kalinowski:Now that's big.
Caesar Kalinowski:Notice this.
Caesar Kalinowski:Notice the order.
Caesar Kalinowski:If you'll be my disciple, which means walk in my ways.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:like, Obey My Teachings.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Then, huge then, you'll come to know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
Caesar Kalinowski:Discipleship leads to the knowledge of truth, capital T, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:That leads to now being set free.
Caesar Kalinowski:And he didn't say, if you walk in my ways, you'll come to know the truth and you'll go to heaven.
Caesar Kalinowski:When he's talking about truth setting you free, he's talking about in every areas of your life.
Caesar Kalinowski:He's talking about the gospel, the good news of the kingdom has come, that the king has come, that we now get to live in it and walk with him.
Caesar Kalinowski:You'll get set free in your marriage, in your parenting, in the way you eat, the way you spend your money.
Caesar Kalinowski:What do you do on vacation?
Caesar Kalinowski:How you treat your neighbors?
Caesar Kalinowski:Do you mow someone else's grass?
Caesar Kalinowski:How do you present yourself?
Caesar Kalinowski:How do you talk about dad?
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, the father, every area, all of that, you'll get set free in that if you'll walk in the ways of Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski:So does evangelism lead to a getting set free Jesus in our heart part and then we start to disciple people or is it the other way around?
Caesar Kalinowski:Jesus said, if you be my disciples, then you'll know the truth and you'll start getting set free.
Caesar Kalinowski:How did he live it?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:How did he live it?
Caesar Kalinowski:He said, come and follow me.
Caesar Kalinowski:Come walk in my ways with me.
Caesar Kalinowski:And little by little the kingdom was unveiled and it goes over and over in scripture, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:It says, and he talked to them about the kingdom and here's some more parables and it's like this and it's like that.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we know that in Matthew 28, Jesus ascension.
Caesar Kalinowski:So this is after he's already died and rose again.
Caesar Kalinowski:It says that the 11 who were still alive, the 11 disciples that were still alive were there with him watching as he ascended into the clouds and some still did not believe.
Caesar Kalinowski:Clearly, belief, quote unquote, doesn't precede discipleship, discipleship precedes belief.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's really one big continue in one loop.
Caesar Kalinowski:And when I understood that, that changed everything for me.
Caesar Kalinowski:Cause now my fear of rejection, cause I have it too, wasn't like I got to close the deal or I don't know what to say.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, I'm going to invite people to walk in the ways of this.
Caesar Kalinowski:So look, the next time I work on that guy's yard, I'm going to invite another neighbor to just kind of throw in with me.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're going to do the bushes.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're going to trim that stuff up.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're going to weed whack.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're going to go ahead and edge.
Caesar Kalinowski:The guy's going to help me, and we're going to build some relationship on it.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're going to walk in the ways of Jesus, who is a servant, and we'll trust the Spirit to where it goes.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, that's cool, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:That's big.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's different, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's a totally different
Heath Hollensbe:way of thinking.
Heath Hollensbe:So we don't have much time left, but, um, one listener named Larry asked us, uh, he wrote in and said, when we read about the power of the gospel for salvation, it's always associated with the preaching of the cross.
Heath Hollensbe:How does this relate to the new relational evangelism approach?
Heath Hollensbe:It takes three to five years or more to reach an acquaintance.
Heath Hollensbe:And, Caesar, I think what Larry's asking is, like, when do we actually get around to preaching the cross in this relational type
Caesar Kalinowski:of evangelism.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I've heard, yeah, thanks, Larry.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's a killer question and I've heard it before.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's great.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because I've had even people kind of put a finger in my chest and go, Oh, you're one of those guys that wants to be friends with everybody first.
Caesar Kalinowski:Kind of.
Caesar Kalinowski:Jesus was a friend of sinners.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't, I kind of want to like, I'd love to have that moniker, you know, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, I think this, that, that question ties back to, into that third reason that I gave that people fear talking about their faith or the gospel.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that's that they don't feel like they really know how to talk about it.
Caesar Kalinowski:In ways that are good news, okay, or, or that are perceived and received as good news by others.
Caesar Kalinowski:Notice I don't feel like it's good news when I say it, but I'm supposed to say it.
Caesar Kalinowski:And or I don't think that it's going to be perceived as good news.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's going to sound real presentational.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so for many in their minds, this preaching of the cross is just that it's the, it's an insertion of a group of historical facts about a man dying.
Caesar Kalinowski:on a cross 2, 000 years ago.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's what it means to preach the cross.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And they think somehow if I will just reel out those historical facts jammed into any given situation, lost my job, wife's leaving, child just got sick.
Caesar Kalinowski:Child died, my mom passed away, boss says I'm getting let go next month, you know.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh, you know what?
Caesar Kalinowski:Here's some facts about a guy died on the cross.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's the preaching of the cross.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, I don't think that sounds like good news right there.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, exactly.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I have no example of Jesus doing anything like that or the disciples going, you know what?
Caesar Kalinowski:Super out of context.
Caesar Kalinowski:Jesus basically said if you're gonna preach The good news to a hungry man?
Caesar Kalinowski:Wrap it up in a good sandwich, you know what I'm saying?
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, like, like the good news needs to be good news, that they're, that God's real, and He cares about you, and it's, and He meets your need in context.
Caesar Kalinowski:So the gospel's always good news, and it never changes.
Caesar Kalinowski:But it's good news in context, and so the preaching of the cross has to also be in context, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, that's what we call gospel fluency there again.
Caesar Kalinowski:How does the gospel speak into you might lose your job?
Caesar Kalinowski:Does it?
Caesar Kalinowski:Is there good news there?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, because we've got a father And here, and I'll just give our listeners an example.
Caesar Kalinowski:My neighbor comes over and says, Hey man, freaking, you seem stressed out.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh, I'm freaking out.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm freaking out.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, why are you freaking out, man?
Caesar Kalinowski:I just found out, you know, like, of course, you know, my wife's pregnant with our third.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's awesome news, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:He goes, yeah, but worst news, boss says I'm getting let go.
Caesar Kalinowski:It took me like nine months to get my, this job and now I'm like freaking out.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, is there good news?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, hey, you know, Jesus died on a cross 2000 years ago, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, like that.
Caesar Kalinowski:How does that help me?
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, or what if I said, you know, um, we may not believe the exact same things, bro But we've tried to live a life of generosity and you know And sharing what we've been given by God and we think it all comes from God and you know What's so powerful to me about these situations to dude?
Caesar Kalinowski:I've lost my job before you know, I know I've been there man you know and I got kids and Our father is so generous.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like we've never slept under a bridge.
Caesar Kalinowski:We've never missed a meal.
Caesar Kalinowski:We've had times tight.
Caesar Kalinowski:We didn't know what was coming, but then it always showed up.
Caesar Kalinowski:And what I've come to believe is that God is super generous.
Caesar Kalinowski:And he was most, you know how he proves it, man, a God who's a father who would send his own son to die in my place to like pay a huge debt for sin that I could never, that's crazy generous.
Caesar Kalinowski:And when I started to believe that, like God allowed me to believe that more and more.
Caesar Kalinowski:That truth right there, that I started to believe in for like much littler things.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like a God who would not withhold his own son, that generous, probably would not withhold, Hey, I'm going to care for your family, and you got a light bill to pay, and phone.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well that is the good
Heath Hollensbe:news,
Caesar Kalinowski:right, in that situation.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, and see, that's the preaching of the cross, but it's good news in that situation, because it's about his generosity, and he would not withhold his own, right, his only begotten.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, anyway, that's when I talk about growing in gospel fluency, and that is the preaching of the cross, but it's good news in context, it's not a presentational.
Caesar Kalinowski:This is what I reel out.
Caesar Kalinowski:Boom.
Caesar Kalinowski:Fits every situation.
Caesar Kalinowski:No, that's, Jesus didn't do it either.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's why he told hundreds of parables.
Caesar Kalinowski:He, it's all these angles.
Caesar Kalinowski:So you would get it.
Caesar Kalinowski:So you'll understand it.
Caesar Kalinowski:So you could communicate that to someone else.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wow.
Heath Hollensbe:Well, as, as we close, we like to end each episode with three things that we get started with right away.
Heath Hollensbe:We call them the big three, and this is advice or action steps or something that we get to do right now.
Heath Hollensbe:Caesar, what are the big three that we can leave people with for this
Caesar Kalinowski:week?
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, um, I'm gonna lay them on you.
Caesar Kalinowski:I want our listeners to remember if they're at the gym or they're driving, don't freak out.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, I gotta write these down.
Caesar Kalinowski:This has been good.
Caesar Kalinowski:Cause you can always get the big three by download, by going to everydaydisciple.
Caesar Kalinowski:com forward slash big three and boom, we'll send you all this.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I'm going to send you a free video to go along with it.
Caesar Kalinowski:You'll get the big three.
Caesar Kalinowski:So here's the big three that I think will change all this.
Caesar Kalinowski:First, believe that you're perfectly loved by God.
Caesar Kalinowski:God, our father loves you right now perfectly.
Caesar Kalinowski:As a son or daughter, if you're in Christ, regardless of how often or how well you feel like you are at sharing your faith.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right, just sit in that, believe, let that wash over you, believe that you are perfectly loved and you're loved exactly the same if you're like a witnessing monster or you suck at it and never open your mouth.
Caesar Kalinowski:Isn't that good news?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not about our performance, it's about His grace and His power of the gospel to set us free.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Secondly, um, taking this from Hugh, take a longer view of evangelism, okay?
Caesar Kalinowski:Take a longer view of people coming to faith.
Caesar Kalinowski:really start to have a discipleship understanding.
Caesar Kalinowski:Jesus said, go and make disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:He called people to do life with him, and along the way, he evangelized them from unbelief to belief.
Caesar Kalinowski:So take a longer view.
Caesar Kalinowski:Don't, I think, I would just say, it happens where sometimes we just get to, you know, on a plane or with somebody we just met, we get to share like a big portion of the truth of who Christ is and the cross, and people will actually come to faith.
Caesar Kalinowski:God has appointed that time.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm not discounting that.
Caesar Kalinowski:I've seen that.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's real.
Caesar Kalinowski:But most often, For myself, the churches we've helped people plant and planted, loads of people we've discipled.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's going to be a longer haul, just like with Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski:He took years and some of his disciples still didn't believe.
Caesar Kalinowski:Take a longer view.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then third is grow in your gospel fluency.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like get started.
Caesar Kalinowski:Plan to learn the language of the good news.
Caesar Kalinowski:Most of us are, we're not born with it and we don't hear it in church that much.
Caesar Kalinowski:We hear very Propositional gospel, we hear very presentational gospel, we hear a lot of self help and advice, and maybe an offer, you know, to come forward at the end or something like that.
Caesar Kalinowski:And like I said, if you'll go, you know, and Heath, you can give them the information again, but if they'll get the download this week, we'll give you the notes on the big three, and I'll give you a video, and we'll get, we can put your foot on the path of growing in gospel fluency.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we all want to do that.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that's not a bunch of transitions or tricks.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's how to truly see the good news connected to every area of life, and how to learn to begin to speak it to ourselves.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then to others as well.
Caesar Kalinowski:Thanks, Caesar.
Caesar Kalinowski:Those are some great tips.
Caesar Kalinowski:For sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:This is a pretty important area of our lives and hearts to let the gospel get in there and change.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I hope this was helpful for you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Thanks, Heath.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey, and don't forget to hop on over right now and register for the Discipleship as a Lifestyle live virtual workshop.
Caesar Kalinowski:Be sure to register right away because depending on when you're hearing this, the training might be happening today or tomorrow.
Caesar Kalinowski:and the registration will come down.
Caesar Kalinowski:Go over to everydaydisciple.
Caesar Kalinowski:com forward slash lifestyle and we'll save a seat for you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, we're for sure out of time now.
Caesar Kalinowski:I hope you'll join us again next week as we continue to grow into what gospel speaks into and changes every part of life.
Caesar Kalinowski:Not just yours, not just ours, but everyone around us too.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'll talk to you soon.
Heath Hollensbe:Thanks for joining us today.
Heath Hollensbe:For more information on this show and to get loads of free discipleship resources, visit everyday disciple.com and remember, you really can live with a spiritual freedom and relational peace that Jesus promised every day.
Caesar Kalinowski:If.
