Shownotes
- How few families are eating meals (with intention) together these days.
- What you're missing out on if you are not having special family dinner nights.
- Why your mealtimes are the best opportunity for discipleship as a family.
- Step-by-step help to make Family Dinner Nights an amazing part of your discipleship and an ongoing legacy.
Each week the Big 3 will give you immediate action steps to get you started.
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Transcripts
Everyone I know feels maxed out on their schedules and with the commitments that they already have, and yet we're all living with a rhythm that provides one of the most valuable and recurring opportunities for discipleship in our families, and that's our family dinner.
Caesar Kalinowski:Your family dinner nights can be retooled and repurposed with a new intentionality that will make them more fun, More focused and a perfect way to naturally engage in discipleship and missional rhythms as a family, all in a way that serves as a model for doing similar things with neighbors and people of peace and those in your community.
Heath Hollensbe:Welcome to the Everyday Disciple Podcast, where you'll learn how to live with greater intentionality and an integrated faith.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey Heath, what is going on today man?
Heath Hollensbe:Another beautiful day in the podcast land.
Caesar Kalinowski:Beautiful day here we are living in the beautiful Pacific Northwest and in my particular neighborhood that we call Pleasantville.
Heath Hollensbe:It was beautiful coming over the bridge today, as it always is.
Caesar Kalinowski:Have you ever seen whales?
Caesar Kalinowski:Have you ever seen whales out there?
Heath Hollensbe:Uh, no, we've done whale watching tours, like, up north, out of Anacortes and stuff, but not here.
Caesar Kalinowski:You don't hear about them, you see them on, you know, it makes the news, like, Oh, there was whales off the Point Fine Bridge, you know.
Caesar Kalinowski:I
Heath Hollensbe:know, I'm on a, an alert system, that I'm supposed to be pinged, and then every time I see it, it's like an
Caesar Kalinowski:hour late.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, cause you're like five, six minutes from the bridge, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, I'm like, I'll
Heath Hollensbe:just get there and check them out, and then they're gone.
Heath Hollensbe:I'm like,
Caesar Kalinowski:this sucks.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'd love to see a whale.
Caesar Kalinowski:They're my favorite.
Caesar Kalinowski:Me too.
Caesar Kalinowski:Me too.
Heath Hollensbe:Hey, today's a very special episode of the podcast.
Heath Hollensbe:We've got your lovely wife, Tina here.
Heath Hollensbe:Yep.
Heath Hollensbe:To help us dig into something that might seem a little obvious at first or Like isn't everybody else already doing this?
Heath Hollensbe:But in reality most people are not eating meals together with any sort of intentionality Even even if they're eating together like as a family and so i'm kind of curious Why is this meal time activity so important to the both of you and something that you guys both teach on and train couples to do when people are engaging in discipleship as a lifestyle and building communities on mission?
Tina Kalinowski:That is true.
Tina Kalinowski:It is kind of my, my ballywick.
Tina Kalinowski:I'm always a little shocked and surprised at how few families today really make family mealtimes happen together.
Tina Kalinowski:And even those mealtimes, oftentimes they're not really grasping the significance of these daily and weekly rhythms and, and how to use that to really.
Tina Kalinowski:Disciple their kids and their families and, and learn to live life on mission.
Caesar Kalinowski:You would think that everybody like lives in a home and must do this, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And even Tina and I, we've talked before, we didn't grow up in homes that were a Christian really.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, there's some faith kind of around the edges, but certainly not what you'd call a Christian home, certainly not discipleship or mission.
Caesar Kalinowski:But we both grew up where we ate meals sitting at the same table.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:But sometimes it was like a battle zone and you just couldn't wait to get away.
Caesar Kalinowski:Can I be excused?
Caesar Kalinowski:Gone.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, clear your plate.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're out of there.
Caesar Kalinowski:So yeah, it's not.
Caesar Kalinowski:And even that though is gone now.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so many people, like we just brought on a whole lot of new people coaching.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I would say what less than half said, We, we eat meals together all the
Tina Kalinowski:time.
Tina Kalinowski:Yeah, probably.
Tina Kalinowski:And I think even those that are eating meals together, it's more like the function of getting food in your stomach.
Tina Kalinowski:It's not necessarily a time to connect with one another.
Tina Kalinowski:And that's really the important thing.
Tina Kalinowski:Um, I think God created.
Tina Kalinowski:good food and eating.
Tina Kalinowski:There's a certain amount of intimacy that comes with when you're eating dinner together.
Tina Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Tina Kalinowski:And, and so we're missing that prime time to like connect with our kids and each other's hearts.
Tina Kalinowski:Yeah.
Tina Kalinowski:And, um, really, um, get to gospel them through the good and the bad stuff of the day
Caesar Kalinowski:and just had that regular pattern that God's built into our lives this way.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, there's a reason.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, why, why do we get hungry three times a day?
Caesar Kalinowski:Why didn't God just make it where through the air, you just go, you know, I'm gonna have a little dinner now.
Caesar Kalinowski:I am stuffed.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, you just breathe it in.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:But no, there's an aspect and you can just see it through all through scripture, how important meals are and, uh, anyway, so yeah, it is a big deal for us and I think it's going to continue to be as we, uh, Talk about the obvious, but maybe not so obvious.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:You know, what's amazing too, is I've got my buddy Len Sweet.
Heath Hollensbe:We've talked about him quite a bit.
Heath Hollensbe:He actually does a whole study on the retention rate of Christian, Muslim, and Amish families, as far as kids who follow in the footsteps of their parents faith wise, and Christian is like 40, 50 percent Muslim is about the same.
Heath Hollensbe:Amish are in the high nineties.
Heath Hollensbe:And what they've contributed that to is that the Amish every night.
Heath Hollensbe:Sit around and have a dinner together and that's where identities reinforce I mean it all is around the meal like it's all around the dinner table.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep a good friend of ours He leads a church that's really moving really well and beautifully and towards mission and that's an old traditional church there he's doing such a great job leading and They are starting this whole family dinner night thing as a church coming up here in the next in the next month ahead And and it's it's a stepping into the rhythms, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah life that God's given us but in this beautiful powerful way and like you said it it's a big part of how he ground Ourselves and each other in our family identity, but even bigger than that in our gospel identity.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I love it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah
Heath Hollensbe:So what do you two think that families might be missing out on if they're not really truly engaging their family dinner nights in this way?
Tina Kalinowski:You know, the first thing I think is the opportunity to connect with your kids and, and just hear like how their days are going in a, a time to gospel their hearts.
Tina Kalinowski:Like, you know, do we do a silly little thing called high, low and a friend of ours, uh, somebody we're coaching said, Oh, we do high, low Buffalo.
Tina Kalinowski:And I was like, we've talked about it.
Tina Kalinowski:Yeah.
Tina Kalinowski:So, you know, high, what was the best part of your day?
Tina Kalinowski:Low?
Tina Kalinowski:What was the worst part of your day?
Tina Kalinowski:And then Buffalo, like what was the weirdest part of your day?
Tina Kalinowski:What have you the weirdest thing you saw?
Tina Kalinowski:Yeah.
Tina Kalinowski:And so.
Tina Kalinowski:Um, but, and it's amazing how just doing that little simple thing gives you the opportunity to celebrate with them about the things that went well and to gospel their hearts about like, you know, their hurts when things don't go well, you know, why, what was the, what was the gospel issue?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:What was really going on.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:How many families Christian or not say, you know, well, we don't really talk that much.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, my kids, I don't know them that well.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't really, they don't know me.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then, you know, they said, well, we tried doing that, you know, I went out and made a big meal and the whole thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:And they just sat there in silence and then wanted to look at their phones and go back to the room.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, yeah, because it was never established as a pattern in a way.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's something that's really a connection, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:It seems more like a penalty.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so we're going to help with that as we get going, but I absolutely agree, honey.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think a daily chance to reconnect with each other.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now we talk about doing a very special family dinner night.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're not talking about you have to like do a production every night, but, but starting to have regular times like this of connection around food, it's built in.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's human.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's God's thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think the other thing is the opportunity that it presents to speak and show grace to one another, like on a regular basis.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Family dinners are the perfect time to create and pass on like traditions, you know, and we're big on this team.
Caesar Kalinowski:K like we create traditions, like we make them up, you know, but, but because traditions are carriers, they're containers for what we care about.
Caesar Kalinowski:There are carriers for participation.
Caesar Kalinowski:Memories are made and patterns of trust and character are developed at the table and through traditions.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then as traditions are passed on and entrusted to younger members and new family members, and then people who are from the outside, but now are being treated like family when they get to participate in, in the, the traditions, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And you get to speak and show grace, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Unmerited favor to one another through that.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's huge.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're missing out on that.
Caesar Kalinowski:If you're not doing.
Caesar Kalinowski:regular meals together.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah,
Tina Kalinowski:and from a purely psychological, you know, like, outlook, um, there's such a, a sense, uh, memory is so key to the sense of smell and taste.
Tina Kalinowski:Like, you will, you can taste something or smell something and, and you will be transported back to when you were five years old and sitting on your grandma's lap or what, you know.
Tina Kalinowski:Um, and so we, I think we're missing out this key opportunity to kind of embed those, especially with the traditions.
Tina Kalinowski:So lemme tell you, man, you get kids started on traditions and they will hold you to those traditions.
Tina Kalinowski:Oh, they will.
Tina Kalinowski:You know, they become very important.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we've created a whole bunch of new ones with our grandkids.
Caesar Kalinowski:Mm-Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, and, and boy, they're like, they're, they're on it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:They, they don't wanna skip these things.
Caesar Kalinowski:But like you were just saying, Tina, the, the, the memories and the, and the grace that are connected to those traditions, they last along.
Caesar Kalinowski:They last generationally as we're seeing, right, as we're seeing.
Caesar Kalinowski:So that's great.
Caesar Kalinowski:Here's something else.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think, uh, that mealtimes and family dinner nights give us a way to experience God's provision and his generosity together.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:We talk about rehearsing evidences of grace as we go around our day, they're doing high low Buffalo or whatever, but sometimes it's just like, Hey, where have you seen God's grace and provision?
Caesar Kalinowski:And so when you're having a good meal and you're enjoying like, Oh, it could be the simplest thing in the world.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:It could even be, it could even be muffin mix turned into pancakes, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Exactly.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, it's, it's like, but God's providing this for us and look how generous he is.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, we, we, we are eating every day, you know, and by God's grace, we've never missed a meal, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Unless we chose to.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, you know, stop thinking you have more important things to do, like, you know, homework or TV shows to catch up on or chores, you know, stopping to rest.
Caesar Kalinowski:and Reconnect as a family is modeling your belief that God is good and he's generous to all of us, to your kids, to us as a family, and sharing a meal together and with others is sharing God's provisions and his generosity with them.
Caesar Kalinowski:You sort of become a conduit of God's grace when you share meals with others.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:Think about it, and that's even more so if your provision is la la, you know, less or lacking.
Caesar Kalinowski:But for most of us, it doesn't matter.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not a matter of fancy or expensive.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's a matter of we're sharing God's grace and provision in our life.
Caesar Kalinowski:Don't.
Caesar Kalinowski:Who wants to miss that?
Caesar Kalinowski:Nobody.
Caesar Kalinowski:Exactly.
Heath Hollensbe:You know, uh, I, one thing too, for our family, um, and I know you guys got a couple more, but I was thinking too, just, it's been a really helpful time as we have mealtimes to figure out the values of our kids and what they desire for a family.
Heath Hollensbe:Like our oldest loves laughing.
Heath Hollensbe:And we noticed that, that when there's a time he craves the family laughing together, like that's a love language time.
Heath Hollensbe:So being able to actually in those situations, like our table.
Heath Hollensbe:is screwy and it's, there's always a mess.
Heath Hollensbe:Our kids stage of life, there's always milk spilled, but it is such a fun time.
Heath Hollensbe:I mean, you're just creating these memories of like, yeah, we got gouges and stuff now on the table, but, but we laugh a lot as well.
Heath Hollensbe:You know, we celebrate.
Heath Hollensbe:because we're free people because of what Christ has done.
Tina Kalinowski:Yeah.
Tina Kalinowski:Amen.
Tina Kalinowski:That should really be what the dinner table is about too.
Tina Kalinowski:It's like, you know, I mean, yes, things happen and you have to clean up spills or whatever, but the table should really be a time of grace and a time of like just celebrating God's goodness, like you were saying, and, and really enjoying each other.
Tina Kalinowski:Um, and it should be setting the.
Tina Kalinowski:vid.
Tina Kalinowski:You know, on a regular basis.
Tina Kalinowski:So and and your kids, you know, um, once they've started to experience some of that grace and like, they will be the ones like asking you like, are we going to do it again tonight?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, exactly man.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, I think to our dinners are, uh, like a daily chance to reconnect with God, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Think about how many days we can go without.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, did you even think about God today?
Caesar Kalinowski:Did you pray at all?
Caesar Kalinowski:Did you listen and speak to your like omnipotent, sovereign, loving, perfect father, uh, forgot to, you know, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, well, you get to, you don't have to, but you, well, my goodness, we get to, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And so that mealtime and even the simple act of praying together, you know, um, our dinnertime is offer up.
Caesar Kalinowski:Natural rhythms, I think, for prayer together, and they're also a prime opportunity to teach your kids about God and about his story.
Caesar Kalinowski:So the simple act of praying, holding hands, praying, moving that around, you know, so the kids learn how to pray and like verbalize their gratefulness and need and all that.
Caesar Kalinowski:We also, when we coach, we teach people how to start using the story of God at like one special meal a week.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh, that's cool.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's almost like a Seder.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's the story of God for kids.
Caesar Kalinowski:which we'll give people links to coming up here in a minute.
Caesar Kalinowski:But yeah, so you're having a meal.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's kind of a special meal.
Caesar Kalinowski:And maybe you, you open up with a prayer and your favorite thing and high lows or something, and then you do the story of God and then just a few questions that go with it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then you could sprinkle that throughout the week.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, you know, you're talking to the kids and he's like, what was.
Caesar Kalinowski:What was the best part of that story today, or what do you wonder about, you know, in the story of, you know, Noah and the ark, like, well, give him some stuff to think about and all that.
Caesar Kalinowski:So you're, but you're baking it right in and there's prayer, but it's not this weird thing like, okay, kids, we're starting to do family devotions again.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, dad's a pastor.
Caesar Kalinowski:We have to, you know, it's like, Oh, Hey, you know, it's built in, it's baked right into the natural rhythms of your life, this connection with God and the word.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh, that's so beautiful.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So good.
Caesar Kalinowski:Who don't want to miss that?
Tina Kalinowski:Not at all.
Tina Kalinowski:It's beautiful.
Tina Kalinowski:Now our three year old, uh, grandson, Patton, he, he really has gotten into this whole thing of prayer and he, he requires that everybody holds hands.
Tina Kalinowski:And then when we get done,
Caesar Kalinowski:it's all his, like, he's, it's his jam,
Tina Kalinowski:man.
Tina Kalinowski:We're going to pray, you know, we all hold hands and then we get done.
Tina Kalinowski:He says, amen.
Tina Kalinowski:And it's amen, amen, amen.
Tina Kalinowski:And you have to clap three times and then hallelujah with crazy jazz hands.
Tina Kalinowski:And don't forget the crazy jazz hands.
Tina Kalinowski:He learned this,
Caesar Kalinowski:he learned this in school, you know, preschool, preschool, but he loves it.
Caesar Kalinowski:And he wants to also assign who prays.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh, cool.
Caesar Kalinowski:But he'll pray.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then he prays at bedtime and it's like, he's, you know, asking God to, you know, save this person, help this person, bless this person, whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's three, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:That's cool.
Caesar Kalinowski:To what degree does he understand it?
Caesar Kalinowski:See, it's introduced.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's normal.
Caesar Kalinowski:It wasn't like, well, after you got spanked, we prayed, you know, that's not a bad time either.
Caesar Kalinowski:But, but, but it's a daily connection, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:I love that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Meals to our, um, Oh, such a beautiful built in way to include others into your family rhythms.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we talk a lot about treating people like family, not like guests.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And like, like when you have people over, but they can't touch anything and like, you don't need to bring anything.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm like, no, no, no.
Caesar Kalinowski:Just leave that.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'll clean that later.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I'll do all the work.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, you're treating them like a guest.
Caesar Kalinowski:They never quite crossed that divide and become a family, but sitting down at a meal and letting people bring things, that's a huge connection.
Caesar Kalinowski:And like in team K, like it's what we call our family, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:It became this coveted thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:to get invited over to one of our family dinner nights.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like even those, even a special night, and it's like, it's just Team K tonight.
Caesar Kalinowski:But like, every once in a while, people from the community or our kids friends would sneak into that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or our kids would say, hey, could so and so join us?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like they're having a rough week.
Caesar Kalinowski:Their parents are fighting a lot right now.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think they might be getting divorced.
Caesar Kalinowski:Could they come?
Caesar Kalinowski:They just need some grace.
Caesar Kalinowski:They need to be hugged and loved on and have a good time and some laughter, like you're saying.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, what a way to include others in your family rhythms.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh, totally.
Tina Kalinowski:Right?
Tina Kalinowski:It's really important when you have those people over, like you said, that you don't change those family rhythms, that you just include them as though it's absolutely normal and natural for them to be part of your family.
Tina Kalinowski:And, um, and that, because that really, um, helps them to cross the divide, like Caesar was saying, from guests to family, you know, and yeah,
Caesar Kalinowski:By letting them be included in everything, all the traditions, all the mess, all the cleaning up, all that, right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Preparation, you know, so I would ask people like who in your life or in your kid's life, if you have kids.
Caesar Kalinowski:May be waiting.
Caesar Kalinowski:or dying for an invitation to a simple but profound meal with you and your family right now.
Caesar Kalinowski:I guarantee you in every family, in every neighborhood, there are people who are home alone all the time.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or they're, they just have strange lives.
Caesar Kalinowski:They're separated even though they might be rooming with their spouse or their kids.
Caesar Kalinowski:and they are dying for a place at the table, a place of grace and joy.
Caesar Kalinowski:It is the most powerful discipleship tool we have.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:That table.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm not joking, man.
Heath Hollensbe:It's so strange how different that is from typical evangelism.
Heath Hollensbe:Cause this, this sort of stuff like wouldn't ever make like the evangelism, you know, meeting minutes on how to evangelize better, but rather than passing out tracks and preaching some sort of, you know, good news.
Heath Hollensbe:Stroke Story To Them, You Have People Over For Me.
Caesar Kalinowski:But to do this, you have to give of yourself a little bit.
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you know, and this, this, this life of, of having these kinds of meals as a family is like that model.
Caesar Kalinowski:We'll talk a little bit more about this, but it's a model for how we then get to include others.
Caesar Kalinowski:And how we get to treat people like a family.
Caesar Kalinowski:So if you're, if you're, all freaked about that and don't like having people over, there's a good chance that you're not loving your own family dinner night.
Caesar Kalinowski:So let's get to work on some of that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and, and, you know, and I kind of mentioned it a little bit in passing, but if you've been trying to figure out, like, how do I, am I really discipling my family and, and my kids and my wife and I really intentional about it?
Caesar Kalinowski:And like, we got this one book and they didn't want to read it and all, you know, family dinner nights, the easiest and most effective way to really intentionalize discipleship within your family.
Caesar Kalinowski:It really is.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's a time where you go after the heart.
Caesar Kalinowski:Not actions, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and, and we'll give you a bunch of practical stuff on how to get going.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Okay.
Heath Hollensbe:So I'm curious about that What would you guys say were some practical steps or maybe even tips that you two can give us for getting started so that?
Heath Hollensbe:We really can make our family dinner nights Amazing and part of a legacy that we pass on to our kids and they can pass on to their kids And we can invite our community
Caesar Kalinowski:into you guys for us.
Caesar Kalinowski:We'll give you seven.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's a nice little biblical
Tina Kalinowski:number.
Tina Kalinowski:Okay?
Tina Kalinowski:Okay, so the first one would be to pick one to three nights per week and stick to it.
Tina Kalinowski:Now, in a perfect world, I would love to see this to be seven nights a week, but let's let's just, we all know that's not going to happen.
Tina Kalinowski:Reach too far.
Tina Kalinowski:But if you could just, if you reached for seven, you might make it to like three or four nights a week, you know, so.
Tina Kalinowski:But to start,
Caesar Kalinowski:like pick one or two or three nights where you're going to really sit down and have.
Caesar Kalinowski:A special
Tina Kalinowski:time to you.
Tina Kalinowski:Yeah.
Tina Kalinowski:And, and this is what, like, when our kids were teenagers, when they were growing up, dinner was unshakable, unbreakable.
Tina Kalinowski:They could, they, they had to be home for dinnertime.
Tina Kalinowski:They could bring anybody they wanted, but they had to be home for dinnertime.
Tina Kalinowski:As they got to be teenagers, and there was sports and jobs and other things.
Tina Kalinowski:We finally just had to pick a night of the week and say, this is the night.
Tina Kalinowski:I don't care.
Tina Kalinowski:You don't work this night.
Tina Kalinowski:There's no team games then this night, this night you're home for dinner.
Tina Kalinowski:And I was really shocked at how little pushback I got from my kids.
Tina Kalinowski:They valued it so much.
Tina Kalinowski:Yeah,
Heath Hollensbe:it wasn't a big deal for
Caesar Kalinowski:them to make that.
Caesar Kalinowski:No.
Caesar Kalinowski:Calendar that stuff.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like anything that's important in our life, it's on the calendar, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:If you have a family calendar up on the wall, it keeps track of like.
Caesar Kalinowski:Doctors appointments and soccer practice and you know band all that stuff or whatever or it's how you track your homeschooling or whatever Like put you know family dinner night on the calendar Yeah, so that everybody knows it and there's an anticipation you can look forward to it Right, so we've introduced this to so many families Heath that said, I don't know, you know I'm not sure how it's gonna go and everything and it's like the easiest thing they've ever done like our kids They're losing their mind.
Caesar Kalinowski:They don't want to skip it.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, they want to do the story of God.
Caesar Kalinowski:They really, you know, it's all that.
Caesar Kalinowski:They're into it, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Here's the second one.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, take turns picking that special meal, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Mom, mom picks a meal.
Caesar Kalinowski:Dad picks a meal.
Caesar Kalinowski:Each of the kids gets to pick.
Caesar Kalinowski:So as you go, let's just say you're doing it once a week.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's, you know, to start, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's like Tuesday nights, Tuesday nights, our family dinner night.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Whose, whose day is it to pick?
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, whose week is it to pick?
Caesar Kalinowski:And they get to pick what we eat.
Caesar Kalinowski:Recently someone said well my six year old's picking and we're just getting started so I can almost guarantee it's gonna be like really bad pizza He said but he's so excited about it that he got to pick right so whatever you're doing Move that around so that what you see what you're modeling is preference.
Caesar Kalinowski:Mm hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like showing preference to one another.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, okay That's not my favorite thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know what though, but your week's next week.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep, and we'll eat whatever you want That's fun.
Caesar Kalinowski:And and no one gets to complain and we're gonna you know Enjoy it and we're gonna try some new things and you just you move it around and that's gonna get real buy in Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Ownership of that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Tina Kalinowski:Yeah.
Tina Kalinowski:And make sure that, um, you make the pregame a warmup for dinner.
Tina Kalinowski:Like everybody has a role to play.
Tina Kalinowski:It's really important to get the kids in there and helping like set the table, helping cook the meal.
Tina Kalinowski:Like seriously, they're my three year old cooks with me all the time.
Tina Kalinowski:I'm talking, he's up there and he's like stirring
Caesar Kalinowski:pans.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'll send you the videos.
Caesar Kalinowski:I should post it on.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, you should put that up
Tina Kalinowski:there.
Tina Kalinowski:Yeah.
Tina Kalinowski:He even really loves to make popcorn with me.
Tina Kalinowski:That's, that's a big deal right now, but there's no, you know, there are so many things that they can help with.
Tina Kalinowski:And when we all do it together, there.
Tina Kalinowski:Kids are so much more invested when they have helped cook and helped set it up and, uh, I have some of my most special memories are, are things where, you know, we've done meals and the kids have helped and they were so proud of what they made and, and it's really changed.
Caesar Kalinowski:And doing that, like when you start inviting others in and you're giving them stuff to do and they have a little role in it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Boom, right away, they feel like part of things, there's more ownership, right, so.
Caesar Kalinowski:And sometimes it's the small
Heath Hollensbe:things too, like for our little four year old, I had to make up a chore the other day, where I'm like, you're, all you're gonna do is take the washcloth and wipe down the table when everything's gone.
Heath Hollensbe:It's no, I mean a four year old can do it, but there's a buy in there, right, where every night now it's like, kids, everyone else has cleaned the table, I'm just gonna wipe it down.
Heath Hollensbe:Is it done well?
Heath Hollensbe:No.
Heath Hollensbe:But you know what, she feels like she's part of.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, and you put the same value and gratefulness on all of it.
Caesar Kalinowski:So if they're chopping up something because they're older or they're wiping down the table or they're putting forks and knives out, you know, and it's all crooked.
Caesar Kalinowski:It doesn't even matter.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're just as grateful for all of it because we're all pulling together.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And well, I, I, I don't want to do the same thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Next week when you pick, so you can make up your own rules like this.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, whoever picks gets to.
Caesar Kalinowski:Help with the, you know, with the entree part or gets to set the table or doesn't have to set the table or, or whatever, you know, or if you pick, that's the week you don't have to clean up, you know, or some, you, you build in what you want and what you find fun that gets buy in, it gets excitement level, like, and you'll see, I'm telling you, it'll work.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, here's another one.
Caesar Kalinowski:Number four, agree that these family dinner nights are, are, um, these times together will not be about problem solving.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or discipline.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, you know, too often and it's too easy to get sucked into this.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, well, we hadn't, we don't really sit and eat very much.
Caesar Kalinowski:So when we do, we're always going over, like, did you get your homework done and family agenda for the next month?
Caesar Kalinowski:Exactly.
Caesar Kalinowski:And like, how come you didn't clean your room?
Caesar Kalinowski:And like, you know, your father gets home.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, well, dad's home now.
Caesar Kalinowski:So you're sitting at the table and dad's having to deal with all this or, you know, mom is or whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, Nope.
Caesar Kalinowski:So on that special night that, or by the way, we keep saying family dinner night, it could be family dinner breakfast, or it could be a lunch on the weekend that's your, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:For the sake of this, we'll say on that special night, you're not solving problems and you're not, you're not doling out discipline.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I've had people say, yeah, but what if, what if crazy stuff happens at the table?
Caesar Kalinowski:Address it, address it with grace and love.
Caesar Kalinowski:And if it needs discipline, say, well, after the meal, I'd like to talk to you more about that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then move back to grace.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Because God's not about sin management.
Caesar Kalinowski:He's already dealt with all of our sin.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's all been forgiven.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's all been put away as far as the East is from the West.
Caesar Kalinowski:He doesn't remember he's chosen not to.
Caesar Kalinowski:We can actually do the same thing one night a week, you know, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:You get to, or if it's just so grievous, you know, like you shouldn't sit, you shouldn't have spoke to your sister in the eye with that knife, you know, then you might have to address it, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Then maybe you get up and you leave the table.
Caesar Kalinowski:You talk about it, you pray, you hug it out, you come back, you know, but the table.
Caesar Kalinowski:is a table of grace.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, that's, that's so
Tina Kalinowski:good.
Tina Kalinowski:Yeah.
Tina Kalinowski:And I think that's not just once a week.
Tina Kalinowski:I think anytime you're at the table, I feel like that it should be a table of grace.
Tina Kalinowski:It should be a safe place.
Tina Kalinowski:And, and because otherwise kids aren't even going to want to, you know, Share anything if they don't feel like they have the, you know, that it's okay to, that they'll get graced.
Caesar Kalinowski:So that thing right there is probably the biggest reason why our kids loved and still love as adults and their kids love dinner time and they love bringing their friends to it.
Caesar Kalinowski:So they know it's this bubble of grace that we're gonna help participate, create.
Caesar Kalinowski:Guard, invite everyone into.
Caesar Kalinowski:beautiful.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's, you know, there's plenty of other time for problem solving and discipline, you know.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So make that family dinner night.
Caesar Kalinowski:That okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Here's number five.
Tina Kalinowski:Okay.
Tina Kalinowski:So go after the heart like with the high lows and.
Tina Kalinowski:Buffaloes, all that stuff.
Tina Kalinowski:You, you really want to get behind the thing behind the thing.
Tina Kalinowski:What was it about getting a good grade on that test that made you so happy?
Tina Kalinowski:Or what was it about, uh, you know, the boy making fun of you at school that made you so sad?
Tina Kalinowski:You know, like what made it hurt?
Tina Kalinowski:This is an opportunity to to gospel their heart, to, to get to the thing behind the thing so that they, that, um, you really get to, um, have the opportunity to redeem that, whether it was a bad thing or a good thing to redeem it and really celebrate it in the best way.
Tina Kalinowski:And so you may
Caesar Kalinowski:be, you know, we said, well, don't talk about problems, but they might, they might bring up, you know, I had a test today and I think I did really poorly.
Caesar Kalinowski:How do you feel about that?
Caesar Kalinowski:Not like, well, could, did you study?
Caesar Kalinowski:Did you, you know, you're going after.
Caesar Kalinowski:behavioral modification, but you're going after the heart.
Caesar Kalinowski:So there again, just like making this a place in a time of grace, going after the heart versus the actions and how we can improve everything in life or do it quicker next time.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or, you know, all those things that we kind of fall into behavioral modification mode, transactional mode.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now go after the heart with everything.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like start thinking through that lens and you'll be surprised how much you learn about each other, how much you'll start to bear with and be on the same side.
Caesar Kalinowski:I want to pray about that for you.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's awesome.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, I understand that hurt.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's just pray.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I want to remind you of how, how loved you are.
Caesar Kalinowski:We love you.
Caesar Kalinowski:God loves you so much.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you know, right, you get to, you get to, number six.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, and we kind of already, people are probably picking up on this create an atmosphere of fun and celebration and discovery and laugh a lot above all right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Grace and laughter and celebration.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:You think about Jesus first miracles, uh, at a wedding feast, it's three days in, he's making hundreds of gallons of wine.
Caesar Kalinowski:They're having fun.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's a party.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:He's showing something about the kingdom.
Caesar Kalinowski:The kingdom's breaking in.
Caesar Kalinowski:What you've thought about God, if you don't understand celebration, that's his heart.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're missing it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Make this an atmosphere of fun and celebration.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's gonna want, that's gonna keep your kids wanting to engage it and them wanting to invite other people and other people trying to figure out their way in.
Tina Kalinowski:Yeah, and I think celebration is is probably one thing that most people don't do that well, like we'll celebrate, you know birthdays and anniversaries, but we forget to like there's stuff to celebrate every single day and when you live in a in a, uh, with an attitude of celebration, of always looking to celebrate something.
Tina Kalinowski:You're also looking and, and understanding God's grace and provision and like, and that's huge because it opens your eyes to such a bigger God and a bigger gospel.
Tina Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:Instead of your kids only hearing about what like, sucked at work today.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:What if you talk about what went great or where someone was awesome and then you want to celebrate that and how can we celebrate that together or how might we bless that person or someone in the neighborhood where you're going, I noticed so and so's back, you know, how could we bless them as a family?
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's think about that.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, I know families that set aside in their family budget, like a blessing budget.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then they discuss and pray about it at their family dinner night.
Caesar Kalinowski:Who do you want to bless this week?
Caesar Kalinowski:And some of them, I've seen where they go, whoever's week it is to pick the family dinner night, they kind of get the they get like the deciding vote on how who we're going to bless and how.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's cool.
Caesar Kalinowski:How beautiful, how beautiful.
Caesar Kalinowski:I wish we had thought of that when our kids were little, right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Exactly.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now they all have their own.
Caesar Kalinowski:And here's, here's number seven.
Caesar Kalinowski:This will be the last tip we'll give.
Caesar Kalinowski:And people can just pray and get creative on their own with this, but start your meal with prayer.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you know what?
Caesar Kalinowski:End with prayer.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like most people open up and we thank God for the food and it's kind of like rote.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:But end with prayer too.
Caesar Kalinowski:And kind of rehearse all that grace and celebration and funny stuff.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like let your kids see that you get to talk to dad about all of it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And invite
Heath Hollensbe:them to do that.
Heath Hollensbe:Absolutely.
Heath Hollensbe:Like
Caesar Kalinowski:make them pray once.
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Tina Kalinowski:It doesn't have to be some like big really formal like just talk to the God like he's sitting at the table with you You know, I mean, yeah, yeah
Heath Hollensbe:You know one thing that I'll just throw on a Hollensby tip that I just found after six months of trying to figure out Why our dinners felt so chaotic and maybe we're the odd family that hasn't figured this out But when I hit it, it made so much sense to me.
Heath Hollensbe:It's changed our, the way we eat is.
Heath Hollensbe:Forks.
Heath Hollensbe:Forks.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, it's amazing.
Heath Hollensbe:I mean, yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Sporks.
Heath Hollensbe:You know, was, was we always had, you know, cause we got four kids and the two of us, by the time we get all the plates served, the first kid's done eating.
Heath Hollensbe:And we're like, why?
Heath Hollensbe:We're out of sync all the time.
Heath Hollensbe:And I said, stop, what we're going to do.
Heath Hollensbe:is we're gonna bring all the food to the table rather than the counter and then no one's getting up because now we don't have moms not up getting milk from the fridge and then down and that has radically changed
Caesar Kalinowski:our life just having it all at the table.
Caesar Kalinowski:I so love that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Whenever possible, sit and sit.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, but it just takes so much more time to have to pass everything.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's worth it.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's so worth it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because otherwise you get up and you're serving one another.
Caesar Kalinowski:Beans for someone and then kid number one's done.
Caesar Kalinowski:Otherwise it's like dinner is like at a cafeteria.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:No, for sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm so glad you brought that up, Heath.
Caesar Kalinowski:Family dinner night.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's all on the table.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't care if you're, well our table's too small.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know what?
Caesar Kalinowski:Figure it out.
Caesar Kalinowski:Put a card table next to it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, exactly.
Caesar Kalinowski:Put a little TV trays on all the edges.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't, you know, whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sit down, pass stuff, take your time, prefer one another, you know, like let kids know, Hey, this is a two hour meal.
Caesar Kalinowski:So like no rush to get out of here.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're not going anywhere.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're all going to help anyway at the end.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's going to go real fast.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's all great.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So one thing you mentioned
Heath Hollensbe:a little earlier is that some folks might be interested in incorporating the story of God for kids into their special family dinner nights.
Heath Hollensbe:And I'm kind of curious if you could tell us a bit.
Heath Hollensbe:More about how that might
Caesar Kalinowski:work.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah real quick, real quick.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're kind of running long here good surprise Yeah, but you can get the story of God for kids I'll give you the link for it and the show notes and all that But what it is is it's a series of narratives and it mirrors ones that we do in community called the story formed way We do it with adults and you know our commissional communities.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:But what it is, is it's like 25, 26 little short narratives chronologically that go through scripture and um, then it's connected to dialogue.
Caesar Kalinowski:So each of the narratives are like 2, 3, 4 minutes like max.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then there's a handful of questions to ask.
Caesar Kalinowski:And the story I got for kids, they're, they're a little bit.
Caesar Kalinowski:age appropriate, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:So good.
Caesar Kalinowski:And as a parent, you'll need to do a little, you know, like, Hey, I have to like explain that question or like that one's not even, my kids aren't even close to answering that.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you don't have to go through it like a curriculum.
Caesar Kalinowski:You might tell the story and then ask the kids some like wondering questions.
Caesar Kalinowski:What do you, what do you wonder about in that story?
Caesar Kalinowski:What was weird to you?
Caesar Kalinowski:Or like really cool in this story.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then it may be asked one or two questions and then the next night come back and revisit it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, Hey, who could tell the story from last night?
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh, that's cool.
Caesar Kalinowski:And the kids are like, they're bold.
Caesar Kalinowski:They're like, I'll try.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then they'll blow your mind how close they get.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then he's like, well, let's fill in anything he missed.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Then you ask the next couple of questions.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so you kind of spread out through, through the week.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then when you're tucking the kids in, you can say, you know, I really liked your answer.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like I had a follow up question for you, you know, and you talk to him that way.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now you're spreading your devotions, quote unquote, or right into the whole night.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then, you know, maybe like in the story I got for kids too, there's a little like memory verse connected to each story.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's kind of like a half a verse, you know, it's like a little thought and you could work on that then at the table.
Caesar Kalinowski:throughout the rest of the week or bedtime, like how you doing, you know, and then celebrate the heck out of that when they learn, they learn and they lock that little bit of scripture into their heads and their hearts.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:So they can get all that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, it'll be in the show notes, story of God.
Caesar Kalinowski:You can go to everyday disciple.
Caesar Kalinowski:com and look under resources.
Caesar Kalinowski:You'll see story of God.
Caesar Kalinowski:They're all in there too, but it'll be in the show notes and it's free.
Tina Kalinowski:Yeah.
Tina Kalinowski:And there's also, if your kids are like teenagers, you just doing the story formed away is probably, you can do exactly the same thing with that.
Tina Kalinowski:If you don't have kids and you're just inviting other adults, you can use the story
Caesar Kalinowski:formed way.
Caesar Kalinowski:Always a good time.
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sangria and story.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right.
Caesar Kalinowski:We better get to the big three, my friend.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yes.
Heath Hollensbe:So, because as always, we want to leave you with the big three takeaways from today's topic.
Heath Hollensbe:So if nothing else, things that we don't want you to miss.
Heath Hollensbe:And by the way, you can get a printable PDF of this week's big three as a free download by going to everydaydisciple.
Heath Hollensbe:com forward slash big three.
Heath Hollensbe:Again, that's everydaydisciple.
Heath Hollensbe:com forward slash big three.
Heath Hollensbe:Caesar, Tina, what are the big three for this
Caesar Kalinowski:week?
Caesar Kalinowski:All right.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I'll just remind us, God has given us built in rhythms of life, like eating meals together that are a perfect opportunity for discipleship as a family and with others.
Caesar Kalinowski:Take full advantage of this reality and start to engage your mealtimes with new eyes and new perspective.
Caesar Kalinowski:Don't let the routine of busyness or just being lazy keep you from creating lasting memories and a legacy that you can pass on to your kids and others.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, don't miss it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, it's really important.
Caesar Kalinowski:Number two, celebration and your family life is important to God.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like he loves when we celebrate around him and it's, we create environments of grace because he graces us.
Caesar Kalinowski:The way that we interact and love one another is one of the strongest pictures of the gospel.
Caesar Kalinowski:And of the father's love for his children that we've been given.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's also a perfect way, a beautiful picture, a way to begin to share God's love and what life is like in his family with others.
Caesar Kalinowski:You think about the kingdom of God breaking in on earth as it is in heaven.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we have these meal times that are full of fun and grace and generosity and hope.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're inviting people into that.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's inviting him into the kingdom, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:It's so big.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then number three, um, start by picking one meal a week.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Just to get started.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, like Tina was saying, it'd be great if we could do this every night, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:But start by picking one meal that you can bring greater intentionality to.
Caesar Kalinowski:Agree that these times will not be about problem solving or discipline, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Remember that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Go after the heart and a deeper relational connection.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's your goal there.
Caesar Kalinowski:Make sure everyone has a role and participates in the preparation and in the mealtime and the cleaning up and have lots and lots of fun and laughter.
Caesar Kalinowski:Just make it super fun, okay?
Caesar Kalinowski:Make these special dinner nights a time where grace is the watchword for all that you do and experience together.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you're gonna love it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, I promise you.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's so good.
Caesar Kalinowski:You really, really will.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, and before you go, would you just stop for a second and subscribe to the podcast?
Caesar Kalinowski:I'd really appreciate that.
Caesar Kalinowski:That way you won't miss an episode.
Caesar Kalinowski:We've got so much coming.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're not gonna want to miss that Please join us again next week and we'll hopefully continue to help make discipleship and mission a whole lot easier for you It's great doing this together I'll talk to you soon.
Heath Hollensbe:Thanks for joining us today.
Heath Hollensbe:For more information on this show and to get loads of free discipleship resources, visit everyday disciple.com and remember, you really can live with a spiritual freedom and relational peace that Jesus promised every day.
