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Bruno Gröning & The Circle of Friends w/ Lindsay Valenty
1st March 2022 • Let's Start A Cult • Cultiv8 Podcast Network
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We did it, Fred! We finally found a cult that isn't horrible! Because today we are going to be talking about Bruno Groning and The Circle of Friends. A cult whose leader died before it formed but whose followers managed to create a worldwide cult that believes in positive thinking to heal its followers.

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Transcripts

Josh:

Hi, Fred.

Josh:

My name is Josh shell host of the let's start a call podcast.

Josh:

The only podcast that sells Tupperware that's right for a low price of $1,000, you will get the best Tupperware in north America.

Josh:

It will keep your food fresh for two months guaranteed.

Josh:

just go to let's start a call podcast.com/gullible for this amazing deal today.

Josh:

Now, with that grift out of the way, it's time for me to introduce my guests is episode.

Josh:

she is the host of the amazing podcast, yield crime and pineapple pizza podcast.

Josh:

your crime is the podcast that talks about crimes of yesteryear, and pineapple pizza is the podcast that talks about cryptids mythology, basically anything they want, I think, please welcome back to the podcast.

Josh:

Lindsey Valenti Lindsay, how are you doing?

Lindsay:

I'm fine.

Lindsay:

How are you?

Josh:

I'm doing very well.

Josh:

Saturday, you?

Josh:

know, this podcast was supposed to be out on Tuesday this week on Patrion.

Josh:

So I apologize for that patrons.

Lindsay:

It happens.

Josh:

yeah, It happens.

Josh:

you know, it's been, it's been busy.

Josh:

so Lindsay, I finally finished one of your many requested cults, uh, home shin Rico.

Josh:

And for those of you who don't know, Lindsay has sent me, I want to say like six or seven cars.

Josh:

It gets better every once in a while, I just get a DM from, from Lindsay being like this one, you gotta talk about this one and I look at it and it's always the most fucked up called.

Lindsay:

You're welcome.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

And, uh, ocean Rico was actually one of them.

Josh:

So did you, did you listen to that, uh, episode last, two weeks ago, I guess now

Lindsay:

I really liked it.

Josh:

It was a, it was a dark one at some point it's

Lindsay:

It was, yeah.

Josh:

yeah.

Josh:

So, uh, thanks for that, Lindsey.

Josh:

I appreciate

Lindsay:

welcome.

Lindsay:

I like bringing stuff down.

Josh:

and thanks for the content that I'm going to be having for the rest of 2022.

Lindsay:

You're welcome.

Lindsay:

I'll

Lindsay:

just keep throwing stuff at you.

Josh:

yeah, I appreciate it.

Lindsay:

I'm just like a co-producer on the show, basically.

Josh:

co-producer, John's a cohost.

Josh:

It's perfect.

Josh:

It's the cultivate family coming together on my show.

Josh:

so today's call is actually, , it's very different from many of my other cults.

Josh:

so the format is going to be a little different and you'll see, you'll see why once we get into it.

Josh:

because today's called, we are going to be talking about Bruno groaning and the circle of friends, a cult whose leader died before it farmed, but manages to trick thousands of people into believing in faith healing.

Josh:

So Lindsay, have you heard of the circle of friends before?

Lindsay:

I have not.

Lindsay:

So this is

Lindsay:

surprisingly one of the ones I did not recommend to you.

Josh:

This is one of the ones.

Josh:

Yeah, I surprisingly enough.

Josh:

I branch off occasionally and do my own.

Lindsay:

What,

Josh:

It's rare.

Josh:

It's very rare.

Josh:

what are your thoughts on faith healing?

Josh:

Before we dive into this,

Lindsay:

I feel like it's for some people, it probably means a lot to them.

Lindsay:

I know that there are some people where they really have, they believe a lot in to put a lot of stake into that.

Lindsay:

I.

Lindsay:

am one of those people where I'll believe it when I see it and I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna poopoo on people's beliefs, but I personally don't really subscribe to that.

Josh:

That's fair.

Josh:

That's a, that's a very in the middle take.

Josh:

I like it.

Josh:

Lindsey.

Josh:

Keven.

Lindsay:

I'm all middle of the road.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

Don't want anyone mad at you?

Josh:

I, I appreciate that.

Josh:

, Lindsay: don't want to get your canceled.

Josh:

Um, I'm going to come out.

Josh:

I'll be the, I'll take the bullet.

Josh:

I don't personally believe in it.

Josh:

I'm okay with this cult and you'll see why in a bit, but, um, I think all in all, I feel medicine and science is probably the way to go.

Josh:

I do realize and recognize that there are times when science can't give you answers.

Josh:

So you look for other, answers and potential, non traditional, healings, I guess.

Josh:

Uh, or they are traditional.

Josh:

I have no idea, but,

Lindsay:

non Western, I

Josh:

Non non Western traditional.

Josh:

Yes.

Josh:

Correct.

Josh:

so I do recognize that there are points when people will branch out of that and search for other, for other means of healing.

Josh:

But, good.

Josh:

I just, I just wanted to get that out of the way, because we're going to be diving into a lot of it eventually here And uh, I'm sure it will come up many times.

Josh:

So,

Lindsay:

And who

Lindsay:

knows?

Lindsay:

My answer may change as this, as the show progresses.

Lindsay:

So

Josh:

maybe by the end of the episode, you'll be a believer you'll, he'll be part of the circle of friends, Lindsey.

Lindsay:

I need friends.

Lindsay:

So if there's a circle, maybe I need to do.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

It's literally in the name.

Josh:

They will just grant you friends so starting off, we're going to be diving into the life of Bruno groanings.

Josh:

I'm going to pronounce a lot of these names wrong it's German, and I should know it, but I'm going to butcher it.

Josh:

I promise.

Josh:

So.

Josh:

Born in Gdansk, all the Wawa.

Josh:

No one has dancing in Germany on May 30th, 0 6.

Josh:

Bruno, , Gronkowski was the fourth of seven children of his parents, August and Martha.

Josh:

Oh, that

Josh:

is a mark.

Josh:

Margaret Margaret Grankowski.

Josh:

I do like how August came up again because of my, coconut cult.

Josh:

we talked about how August is one of the few chairmen names and it is

Lindsay:

I remember

Lindsay:

that

Josh:

times, four different times in my podcast so far.

Josh:

So,

Lindsay:

it was a

Lindsay:

really popular name, apparently during

Lindsay:

certain period of time,

Josh:

yeah,

Lindsay:

the Jennifer of Germany.

Josh:

It's the Josh.

Josh:

so the household was said to be adherent of the Catholic faith.

Josh:

And we're located in the suburb region of Allah, his parents sent him to school, but he never finished the schooling and dropped out in fifth grade and enrolled in a business apprenticeship.

Josh:

I could not find for the life of me, what the business apprenticeship was for a fifth grader, but that's what he did.

Lindsay:

He just said he just sold Hoover vacuum cleaners.

Josh:

yeah, I have no idea like I really want to know.

Josh:

So if anyone does know what the Bennett business apprenticeship was please, please tweet me.

Josh:

Cause I need to know that,

Lindsay:

So

Lindsay:

wait, it was the early 19 hundreds, right?

Josh:

yeah, it would have been probably.

Josh:

Ah, great.

Josh:

Five.

Josh:

How old are you in grade five?

Josh:

We've been around the war, I guess.

Josh:

Right.

Lindsay:

yeah.

Lindsay:

Oh my

Lindsay:

God.

Lindsay:

What if it was like the encyclopedia Britannica set?

Lindsay:

All those books

Josh:

he wrote them off.

Lindsay:

just had them in a trunk strapped to his back.

Josh:

And the moat.

Josh:

Oh God.

Josh:

I don't know, but you know, after, after two years, I think he gave up on that dream, um, and, succumb to the pressure from his father who was a brick layer and wanted his son to, learn and equal trade basically.

Josh:

So, Bruno began to train in carpentry.

Josh:

this however was cut short three months to the end of the training, due to the aftermath, the war, the post-war effects led to the closure of the firm in which he had.

Josh:

Thus, he took up several jobs to make ends meet, like being a factory and dock labor, his crafty and skillful hands helped him to become successful in whatever he laid his hands.

Josh:

on, whether he was repairing clocks or radios or working as a locksmith.

Josh:

He was very gifted in technical areas and , was also never afraid to take on difficult and physical demanding jobs.

Josh:

So he's kind of a Jack of all trades kind of guy at this point

Lindsay:

nice.

Lindsay:

Sounds like he's very good with his hands.

Josh:

Wink wink.

Josh:

ladies.

Lindsay:

wink.

Josh:

dead.

Josh:

So spoiler because he's not, he didn't heal himself to 130 or whatever he'd be now.

Josh:

my math is very badly.

Josh:

He would not be even close to 130 would be like 115.

Josh:

I dunno, 16.

Josh:

There we go.

Lindsay:

There you go.

Josh:

However, he was often quote, unquote, misunderstood by his family, which just meant that he was abused a lot at home.

Lindsay:

Oh.

Josh:

yeah.

Josh:

despite being beaten, black and blue, he said he felt more hurt mentally and emotionally than physically because of the lack of understanding, gradually his environment became less of a safe place and he soon

Josh:

He preferred dwelling, amid trees, bushes, and animals.

Josh:

and he spent hours near in nearby forests and bushes enjoying their company.

Josh:

He experienced an intense amount of spiritual satisfaction in nature.

Josh:

In his words, quote, I experienced God in every Bush, in every tree, in every animal.

Josh:

Yes.

Josh:

Even in the stone.

Josh:

I could stand and take it all in for hours.

Josh:

Time seemed to have no meaning.

Josh:

And it seemed to me as if my inner being expanded into infinity quote, because of his unique take on life, he was beaten and ridiculed by people in the community.

Josh:

So got to love those early 19 hundreds values.

Josh:

If you don't fit in, you're a

Josh:

freak.

Lindsay:

don't like nature pansy.

Josh:

fuck

Lindsay:

the nature

Lindsay:

and a beat the animal lover straight outta ya.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

It's a wonder why global warming started popping up, but 50 years after the,

Lindsay:

God,

Lindsay:

that sounds super nice though.

Lindsay:

Like I can relate to that.

Lindsay:

I like being out in nature.

Lindsay:

It's just,

Josh:

Yeah,

Lindsay:

it's nice.

Josh:

I'm going to be honest.

Josh:

Bruno.

Josh:

Isn't a bad guy.

Josh:

We're going to get to a lot of like his life and.

Josh:

He's a genuinely good guy.

Josh:

Hey, this is one of the calls.

Josh:

Like I said, it's going to be a weird one because it's not dark.

Josh:

And, uh, that's why I brought you on Lindsey to try and lighten your soul a little bit.

Lindsay:

Thank you.

Lindsay:

My heart is so black and cold,

Josh:

so black and blue from being misunderstood.

Lindsay:

so misunderstood.

Lindsay:

I just beat my own chest to

Josh:

Oh, there you

Lindsay:

get rid of my ability to feel.

Josh:

People just staring at you on the street.

Josh:

What is she doing?

Josh:

uh, during the first world war Bruno extended his attributes to people affected by the war.

Josh:

He paid visits to the hospitals and the patients were often joyful to see him, his presence, brought bliss to those who had sustained injuries and sick people claimed to become healthy because of Bruno from far and near, families and friends, , accepted as healing abilities.

Josh:

So, I don't know if it was like, you know, he's, uh, he's probably what 15, maybe

Josh:

at this point during the war, in between 10 and 15.

Josh:

So he's probably just a kid and, you know, he's visiting the hospitals.

Josh:

And I imagine it being like, people are like, oh, we love seeing Bruno.

Josh:

Like, it's like, uh, it's like, you're playing with a kid.

Josh:

You're like, oh, you healed me, whatever.

Josh:

Like I imagined it being more like that.

Josh:

And, uh, I think he just took it to a whole new level.

Lindsay:

Yeah.

Lindsay:

Well, and I suppose too, like if you're, I mean, I'm imagining, you're getting, you probably have like arms or legs blown off and you're

Lindsay:

in a lot of pain.

Lindsay:

You probably don't have a lot of visitors and having this sweet little kid come by and like talk to you and stuff.

Lindsay:

Yeah.

Lindsay:

I

Lindsay:

would eat that shit up to.

Josh:

It might actually help you cause it's a dark time in Germany for sure.

Josh:

during world war one.

Josh:

So Yeah.

Josh:

you might be right.

Josh:

it might actually be uplifting their spirits and, making them feel better anyway, might not be curing them necessarily, but,

Lindsay:

Yeah.

Lindsay:

Well, cause you know, you hear about, if you have a more positive outlook, you tend to heal faster than weather.

Lindsay:

Then if you're like super down in the dumps and then you're just like sick,

Josh:

That's

Lindsay:

Like my soul.

Josh:

You're sick all the time.

Lindsay:

I am constantly sick.

Lindsay:

I'm in a perpetual state of sickness

Josh:

aren't we all aren't we all, um,

Lindsay:

for the

Lindsay:

first three last two years.

Lindsay:

That's

Josh:

yeah, yeah.

Josh:

And it's, and, you know, world war three coming, it's not looking great.

Josh:

So it's, uh, it's appropriate that we're talking about the world wars today.

Lindsay:

exactly.

Josh:

so, in his own words, he said, quote, even as a small child, sick people were freed of their symptoms in my presence.

Josh:

And when they were worked up or quarrelling children and grownups alike would become calm and peaceful because of a few words from me also as a child, I noticed that animals which normally are considered shy or even dangerous were good-willed and tamed around me.

Josh:

My relationship with my family home in contrast was strange and tense.

Josh:

I stroke very early for complete independence to free myself from this environment of misunderstanding within my family.

Josh:

And so I dunno, it's, it's, it seems like a lot of trauma and he's finding some sort of peace in, the hospital work where you are more quote unquote, he's going to just visit people.

Josh:

Right.

Josh:

And I feel he.

Josh:

Find some sort of calm and, and the fact that, you know, he's not being beat or, or yelled at, or, which he gets from his own home.

Josh:

So he probably finds some sort of comfort in visiting the hospital and quote unquote healing.

Josh:

Those people.

Lindsay:

Yeah.

Lindsay:

I mean, why wouldn't you want to be doing something where people appreciate you being there and, you know, you're seeing a positive reaction to your presence.

Lindsay:

Obviously, you're going to want to do that more than go home and be beat for being a positive person.

Lindsay:

Like

Josh:

ah, if only, you know, abuse didn't happen, maybe there'd be less Colts, but

Lindsay:

what

Josh:

yeah.

Josh:

Or are serial killers or, or, uh, there's endless things, you know, Just talk to a therapist.

Josh:

so merits came pretty easily to Bruno.

Josh:

Uh, oh, No.

Josh:

sorry.

Josh:

Sorry, man.

Josh:

My marriage came early to Bruno, not easily.

Josh:

Sorry.

Josh:

That's he got married at the age of 21, so pretty young.

Josh:

Um, and it didn't come easily because unfortunately he struggled with, being understood in his marriage, his wife did not believe in his supposedly attributes of healing.

Josh:

All she wanted was a respectable man to take care of the family.

Josh:

Though.

Josh:

Countless persons have found healing through the interventions of Bruno, his wife, Gertrude doubted the potency of his power.

Josh:

She sought the help of regular doctors rather than her husband, when both of their sons were.

Josh:

Both sons, Harold and Gunter born in 1931 and 1939 respectively died at the age of nine.

Josh:

The death of his kids shattered Bruno.

Josh:

so you can only imagine like his whole bit is healing and then his wife refuses to let him try and heal his own kids and they die.

Josh:

Like in some respects that would just reinforce your belief, that science can't help me.

Josh:

I can help these people kind of

Josh:

thing.

Lindsay:

and it's God, it's so sad that he lost both of his kids,

Lindsay:

but again, like it's even back then at that time, even though it was still like post world war one, and we were a little bit more advanced mortality rates for kids were still super high,

Josh:

yeah.

Josh:

It's like

Josh:

ridiculous up until like, I want to say like the seventies, eighties, maybe

Lindsay:

yeah.

Lindsay:

Like,

Josh:

it was still pretty high.

Josh:

Yeah.

Lindsay:

yeah.

Josh:

Or I guess the baby boom, that might make more sense actually.

Josh:

Now that think about it.

Lindsay:

But yeah, so it was just an unfortunate

Lindsay:

thing probably.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

And you, you, you do feel for this guy, he is a victim in a lot of his life.

Josh:

Um, and I don't blame his wife either.

Josh:

Like she was trying to do what was best for her kids.

Josh:

So just a tough situation.

Lindsay:

Yeah,

Josh:

another big change in Bruno's life was, , when the Nazi era began, Bruno's family actually changed their name from Gronkowski to groaning.

Josh:

I guess it sounds more Germans, so you're less lately at targeted.

Lindsay:

I thought it was more German the first go around, but all right.

Josh:

I honestly, I thought so there's a GRA like Gronkowski.

Josh:

There's just gotta be.

Josh:

A football joke here.

Josh:

I've just can't find it.

Josh:

But, so together with his , fathers and brother Bruno joined the Nazi party.

Josh:

And I don't think he actually joined the Nazi party.

Josh:

I think he just joined the army.

Josh:

the article I read said Nazi party, but obviously that was, uh, it was all of German army.

Josh:

Right?

Josh:

So They controlled the army.

Lindsay:

Yeah,

Josh:

so with the, with world war II, starting Bruno got recruited into the army and contrary to his peaceful ideology, he was required to shoot.

Josh:

However, he refused and barely survived execution at the Marshall court where he was threatened because of his stance.

Josh:

So he pulled, uh, Andrew Garfield.

Josh:

I forgot what that movie is called, but, where he just didn't want to fight.

Josh:

Didn't want to go to war basically, and almost died because of it.

Josh:

So.

Lindsay:

Yeah,

Josh:

I think he gave up eventually because he ends up going to the front lines.

Josh:

So, or they just said whatever, we'll send him, what's the worst that can happen.

Josh:

so he, uh, as I said, he was sent to the front lines of battle and it was there.

Josh:

he sustained an injury and was captured as a Russian war prisoner despite being a prisoner of the enemy, he extended an arm of help to whoever needed it.

Josh:

be it comrades or civilians in prison, Bruno advocated for better resources for sustenance, like food, shelter, and clothing to save the Russian villagers from starvations.

Josh:

He facilitated getting food for them the army reserve, Bruno succeeded in killing no one.

Josh:

Instead he rendered help where necessary to numerous people.

Josh:

And he was in prison from March to October of 1945.

Josh:

After he was released Bruno relocated to the Western region of Germany as a refugee, which I don't know how that works.

Josh:

Like, because he's, he's a citizen of Germany.

Josh:

So why would he go back as a refugee?

Josh:

But

Josh:

I don't, I don't really

Lindsay:

yeah, I don't know.

Josh:

because it was owned by a mayor.

Josh:

I was like the allies, I guess, Adam,

Lindsay:

because he was a prisoner of war, like, cause he was escaping Russia.

Lindsay:

Would that make him a refugee?

Josh:

I

Josh:

guess, but when they just mean he's coming back home.

Lindsay:

Yeah.

Lindsay:

It doesn't really make a whole lot of sense,

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

When I read it, it didn't, I didn't understand it, but

Josh:

uh,

Lindsay:

cause Germany wasn't didn't have east and west Germany until after the war.

Josh:

well this is after the war.

Josh:

right?

Josh:

1945.

Lindsay:

But like much later than that was when the wall was

Lindsay:

constructed and it was di divided.

Lindsay:

Wasn't it?

Lindsay:

I don't remember that

Josh:

it was,

Lindsay:

class.

Josh:

I don't know if the wall was built necessarily then, but I think it was still split.

Josh:

Right.

Josh:

Because Russia captured half of it and the allies captured the other half.

Lindsay:

Oh, maybe.

Lindsay:

Yeah.

Josh:

And so it was occupied.

Josh:

They were occupying the area.

Josh:

I think,

Lindsay:

Okay.

Josh:

I should know this.

Josh:

I did a whole episode on the Nazi party, but I don't think we actually got into the war part of it.

Josh:

And So

Lindsay:

Yeah.

Lindsay:

So that makes sense.

Lindsay:

So yeah, if he was in the allied territory, then yes,

Lindsay:

he would

Lindsay:

be a refugee from Eastern Germany.

Lindsay:

So

Lindsay:

that makes sense.

Lindsay:

Yeah.

Lindsay:

we got there.

Josh:

Yeah, yeah, we got there.

Josh:

We got, we made sense of It in our own minds.

Josh:

It might not be the truth, but.

Lindsay:

It makes sense to us.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

so it is kinda crazy though, that he, he was advocating for German people and our Russian people, sorry.

Josh:

And trying to advocate for more food for the Russian people that are, were starving at the time, because many Russian people did start at that, uh, during that time.

Josh:

and he just stuck his neck out for like those people, as well as like the prisoners he was with.

Josh:

So, good for him.

Josh:

I mean, , he didn't, he didn't fight and you can have whatever thought you want about that.

Josh:

But he, he did what he, he could in his own ideology and I, I respect that.

Lindsay:

Yeah.

Lindsay:

I mean, I feel like in those kinds of situations, it's so easy and almost a little bit of human nature to try to look out for yourself over everybody else.

Josh:

Right.

Lindsay:

Especially when like, food is short, you know, and clothing and all that kind of stuff.

Lindsay:

Like,

Lindsay:

so yeah,

Lindsay:

it was

Lindsay:

good.

Josh:

Yeah, no, exactly.

Josh:

so in December, 1945, after acquiring his freedom, he started a new life with his family in dillenberg in ha Hessen following the death of his last son.

Josh:

His wife attempted to restrict his

Josh:

Philanthropic

Josh:

activities.

Josh:

He responded to this by separating from her.

Lindsay:

screw

Lindsay:

you.

Lindsay:

You wouldn't let me heal my kids.

Lindsay:

You don't want

Lindsay:

me to do nice things.

Josh:

I'm outta here.

Lindsay:

Get out of here, Gertrude

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

What a German name to jeez.

Lindsay:

so long Gurdy.

Josh:

to him, he belongs to humanity and not individuals.

Josh:

Thus his abilities should be available for.

Josh:

And he went on to help , all of those that needed to be healed.

Josh:

grown and continued on this path till the early months of 1949, when he found himself in rural district.

Josh:

I hope I pronounced that.

Josh:

Right.

Josh:

I'm going to butcher all of this.

Josh:

I apologize again.

Josh:

Greg gradually with the news of his healing spreading by his beneficiaries, the name Bruno groaning became more common.

Josh:

He went from one house to another seeking people who needed his healing abilities.

Josh:

He also honored invitations from people who requested for him to get healed in March, 1945.

Josh:

A man named her Ford extended his invitation to Bruno Herford and engineer requested for groaning.

Josh:

So he could heal his 19 year old son Deiter, who suffered from muscular dystrophy as Bruno started using his abilities on Deiter.

Josh:

He began to walk again.

Josh:

Hartford was beyond astonished to see this happened.

Josh:

He pleaded with, , Bruno to remain in his household.

Josh:

So others who were sick could come to him and be healed just like a son.

Josh:

This ushered crowds from all different areas to Holzman's house to be healed by groaning.

Josh:

There was media coverage as newspapers soon carried the story . This drew up to 5,000 people towards Bruno people became calling him the miracle man or the miracle doctor.

Josh:

so he's famous now.

Lindsay:

a, it's like less creepy Rasputin vibes.

Josh:

yeah.

Josh:

Uh,

Lindsay:

know what

Lindsay:

I

Josh:

that's a hundred percent.

Josh:

He's the, he's the German less creepy recipe

Lindsay:

Yeah.

Lindsay:

May or may not have a 12 inch Dick, apparently.

Lindsay:

I don't know.

Josh:

maybe that's why Gertrude stuck around for so long.

Josh:

he had his magic fingers.

Josh:

Um, but, uh, I will say this, that I don't know.

Josh:

much about muscular dystrophy.

Josh:

and like I said, this is a story.

Josh:

I don't know how much of this has been altered or is true, because it seems unbelievable that he could heal this person with, his miracle healing.

Josh:

So keep that in mind, keep that in mind, it is a story and Germany at this point is in a very fragile situation.

Josh:

So having something to believe in probably spurred a lot of legends,

Josh:

from this man.

Josh:

And, uh, as You can see the German people, very prone to just following people.

Lindsay:

Miracles.

Lindsay:

You say, sign me up.

Josh:

as part German.

Josh:

I can say that right?

Lindsay:

Same.

Lindsay:

I am part German as well, so,

Josh:

50%.

Josh:

Yeah, You met, uh, oh no, I was gonna say you met Hitler, but that didn't make any sense about the Klu Klux Klan guy.

Josh:

Right.

Josh:

And

Lindsay:

Yeah, I did.

Josh:

yeah.

Josh:

It's and you're not that old.

Josh:

Lindsey.

Lindsay:

I'm not that old.

Lindsay:

I mean, I feel that old inside, but uh,

Lindsay:

I'm not.

Josh:

Maybe you need the miracle man

Lindsay:

I do, please come visit me,

Lindsay:

please come back from the dead and heal me.

Josh:

so in a daily newspaper named, munch, ner marker, Manfred, lung, skin, Horst.

Lindsay:

Nice.

Josh:

a journalist wrote that quote, when I arrived at Herford at about 10:30 AM, almost 1000 people were standing in front of a two-story house and Willem's plat.

Josh:

It was an indescribable picture of suffering, countless people in wheelchairs, others brought there by their relatives, blind, deaf and dumb mothers with mentally and physically disabled children.

Josh:

old women and young men were crowded together and groaning almost 100 cars, trucks and buses were parked around the square and had come from far away and quote

Josh:

you gotta think of it.

Josh:

Like there's probably tons and tons of people like suffering from illnesses from the war.

Josh:

And to hear about a miracle man, like that just gives you hope to go.

Josh:

And maybe I can heal this deafness that I got from a shit, a mortar that fell right beside me.

Josh:

You know, what.

Lindsay:

well, yeah.

Lindsay:

And like, not only like physical, but probably emotional too, like I'm sure

Lindsay:

so many people had like PTSD

Lindsay:

as a result of the war, you know?

Josh:

guaranteed.

Josh:

I think even even with the PTSD, like if you go to someone and they tell you to think positive vibes.

Josh:

and they give you like and that's what he was, he was a lot of, he was a lot about the positive vibe kind of thing.

Josh:

he didn't call it that that's a 21st century, uh,

Lindsay:

Check out my

Lindsay:

positive vibes.

Josh:

John would love this guy.

Josh:

so he was all about think positively and I can help you heal.

Josh:

So even, even that little bit of positivity and he mixes it with kind of a meditation thing, which we'll get in.

Josh:

I think a lot of that would help with PTSD would help bring you down, calm you down and get put you in a better head space, which I think is a, what a lot of people needed.

Josh:

So if he's not physically healing them, he might actually be mentally healing.

Josh:

A lot of people who had PTSD from the war,

Lindsay:

Or like anxiety and stuff like that, giving them coping

Lindsay:

mechanisms.

Josh:

yeah.

Josh:

Or depression from, you know, lost, loved ones, like, cause everyone, had lost someone at that point.

Josh:

So, uh, shortly after the authorities became concerned about the new development and set up a committee to investigate, Bruno, the committee's resolution was, to ban Bruno from healing doctors and medical practitioners who were influenced.

Josh:

publicly opposed him and demanded that this healing method be subjected to scientific scrutiny.

Josh:

They believed that it was rather belittling and against , the professional honor of doctors in, if groaning is allowed to perform the same actions, doctors are trained for all attempts to get a positive response, failed groaning had no other choice, but to leave Herford permanently.

Josh:

in some regards, I understand, like they just had a war where a bunch of Germans followed one man.

Lindsay:

Yup.

Josh:

And so I could see if thousands of People start gathering around this man, his house and following his, every whim.

Josh:

He be a little concerned as the German

Lindsay:

Yeah.

Lindsay:

People will be like, what's going on here?

Josh:

We should shut This down.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

we're not ready for another one.

Josh:

Uh,

Josh:

well, so he ends up, you know, he has to quit his practice.

Josh:

So he, ends up moving back to south Germany in August of 1949, as a means of exiting from the troubles and , blasphemy that he experienced in Hartford.

Josh:

He dwelled in a private residence near Rosenheim he succeeded in hiding his location until it was carried by a newspaper and disclosed for all to know, as usual, thousands of people showed up at his residence for healing.

Josh:

He was like a famous person in the paparazzi.

Josh:

You just

Lindsay:

God.

Lindsay:

It's like a where's Waldo in Germany and they're just like, we found him.

Lindsay:

Here's where he

Lindsay:

lives.

Josh:

various well he's he come this legend at this point.

Josh:

Right.

Josh:

And like, and, there are people that claim that, but the number of people daily was beyond 30,000.

Josh:

That shit.

Josh:

To try and get them to heal

Josh:

them.

Lindsay:

God.

Josh:

all media platforms covered his story regularly leading to a movie titled groaning, which served as a documentary on his activism wherever he went, people gathered very quickly and thousands and tens of thousands waiting to be healed through his healing process.

Josh:

People with all forms of illnesses came from all over the world.

Josh:

Many made pilgrimages to his location to tap from his healing, energy petitions and proposals and various sick people, , came from different countries.

Josh:

Bruno was strongly against profiteering as he didn't believe in making money from his power.

Josh:

He met several oppositions, , that came as court cases and healing programs.

Josh:

His practices were unable to fit into the existing social structures so he actually, wasn't making any money off this.

Josh:

This is why I say he's not a bad guy.

Josh:

I don't think, I think he genuinely believes in what he's doing,

Lindsay:

Yeah, it

Lindsay:

sounds like it because yeah, he's just doing it out of the goodness of his heart.

Lindsay:

He's not charging you admission to have him put his hands on you or whatever.

Lindsay:

He did.

Josh:

Because some places will charge you a lot for that.

Lindsay:

happy healing, happy vibes.

Josh:

but you're right.

Josh:

And, and I think this, I, this is why I brought up the point, uh, before, when he was in the hospital, uh, when he was a kid, I think he genuinely derives pleasure.

Josh:

And, from trying to heal people and he gets pleasure from feeling welcomed And being accepted where he is, cause he grew up in a place where he wasn't accepted.

Josh:

So I think for that reason, I believe, I truly believe he was a good person who believed that he could do these things.

Lindsay:

I mean, he sounds like someone who genuinely just enjoyed helping others and feeling needed and appreciated what he did for other people.

Josh:

exactly.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

that's why I enjoy this story because it is a nice story, which is, uh, uh, you know, different from when I usually get into, so groaning died on January 26th, 1959 from Tacoma resulting from the effect of stomach cancer.

Josh:

He was diagnosed with the disease in the autumn of 1958.

Josh:

When he took a trip with a second wife, Joseph.

Josh:

It is a way better name than group Gertrude.

Lindsay:

So much better upgrade.

Josh:

Wait, upgrade for sure.

Josh:

his condition got worse and was considered inoperable, due to an obstruction in his large colon.

Josh:

they attempted the surgery and he died four days after, and that is kind of where we ended with Bruno.

Josh:

and like I said, it's a different, it's a different call because the cult hasn't even formed yet.

Lindsay:

Yeah.

Josh:

And, I have no cool intro into this, but after the ad break, we're going to be actually talking about the cult and how it forms.

Josh:

Usually I have some horrible ad intro, but I can't even find one here.

Josh:

I

Lindsay:

Are you going to die from an obstruction in your large.

Josh:

Do you know won't ban you from healing practices?

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

so Germany or wherever you was the products and services that support this podcast.

Josh:

Uh, they love faith healing.

Lindsay:

They're all for it.

Josh:

And we are back.

Josh:

so we've established, our heroes, we'll call him a hero this time.

Josh:

He's a hero.

Josh:

we've established our heroes life.

Josh:

And, we're now going to get into the cult That actually forms from his teaching.

Josh:

And we're going to explore exactly what the teaching was and how the healing process actually took place.

Josh:

so groaning was all about wellness and spiritual healing to start with.

Josh:

He held strong views.

Josh:

That illness is unnatural to the human being.

Josh:

It results.

Josh:

When we draw away from God, he said, quote, the further person withdraws from God willing or unwilling, the less life there is in his body and his organs do not function as they should.

Josh:

He has lost contact with the great divine source of entry of his energy.

Josh:

And eventually he even loses what little remains cut off from the power of God.

Josh:

His body becomes a wreck and quote.

Lindsay:

That explains so much about me.

Josh:

Me too.

Josh:

Maybe that's why I'm sore every morning.

Lindsay:

I am a

Lindsay:

dumpster fire.

Josh:

Oh God.

Josh:

I mean, not God,

Lindsay:

Help me.

Josh:

so the idea form from the foundations of his teeth, He was a believer in spiritual forces and their influence on humans as greater than most realize, fundamentally, he thought of the human being as a battery, like a battery human beings, burn up energy and ongoing daily tasks.

Josh:

However, for most people there isn't enough new life, energy absorbed to be replaced for what is being used up.

Josh:

When a battery is spent, it stops functioning in the case of a human body, devoid of life, energy.

Josh:

It can not perform activities and more relatable terms.

Josh:

What happens to such a bodies are fatigue, exhaustion, anxiety, and then different illnesses.

Josh:

So, to sum all that up, everyone's a battery that it drains and fills up.

Josh:

And if you do not fill up your battery enough, you then begin to experience fatigue, I guess makes sense.

Lindsay:

It's just like in the matrix,

Josh:

It's just like the matrix you're

Josh:

right.

Lindsay:

all just a bunch of batteries

Lindsay:

for our

Lindsay:

robot

Lindsay:

overlords.

Josh:

it, it does make sense in a way, right?

Josh:

You, you get tired at the end of the day, cause you're doing tasks and so you sleep to gain energy back and if your sleep and rest does not outweigh your, the energy you're exposing, you will be into experience illnesses and, injuries.

Josh:

so what are you saying so far?

Josh:

You know, makes sense.

Josh:

So we're going to get into how he describes how you fill up your energy.

Josh:

So, it starts with the mindset, the individual looking to get more energy must first believe in goodness, just as they must have a strong will to be healthy.

Josh:

Groaning taught that as we live, we are surrounded by healing waves and all one has to do is absorb them.

Josh:

He also preached that no illness is incurable, which is probably the worst.

Josh:

He says here,

Lindsay:

yeah.

Josh:

giving people false hope.

Josh:

Sometimes it's not a, you know,

Lindsay:

Yeah,

Josh:

I get it.

Josh:

It just kind of, you know, it does suck a little bit.

Josh:

so he taught that the healing waves, or as he called it the strum, which is a great name, gray branding,

Lindsay:

Hellstrom.

Josh:

Jesus saves the Hellstrom.

Josh:

Um, it was also called the healing stream.

Josh:

these healing waves are to be absorbed.

Josh:

So you sit with your hands open and the palms facing upwards, the arms and legs are not to be crossed as that could block the free flow of the Hellstrom, In addition, thoughts about the illness at hand and

Josh:

this is where I believe a lot of the meditation and thinking good thoughts.

Josh:

I believe that actually does probably help people, not in the way he thinks it does, but mentally and, and puts you in a better Headspace for sure.

Josh:

it is believed that , as the healing waves flow through the body, it reaches the organs affected by the.

Josh:

And starts to purify them.

Josh:

Sometimes the healing begins with pain, but that is a sign of the cleanse.

Josh:

Then the ailment will gradually get better.

Josh:

I don't know.

Josh:

Let's try that right now.

Josh:

What's what's, what's ailing you right now.

Josh:

back is

Lindsay:

Oh, yeah.

Lindsay:

My back to my, my knees are starting to hurt cause the weather's changing my old bones.

Josh:

it's the most folk tale thing I've ever used.

Lindsay:

It's probably all those cans of beans.

Lindsay:

I've been eating.

Josh:

That's so funny.

Josh:

So, so, so tonight, maybe try this Lindsey, you know, and just sit there, palms, open legs, uncrossed, and just think happy thoughts.

Josh:

And, uh, maybe the weather won't affect how you feel.

Lindsay:

I'll report back on the state of my knees.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

just let us know in the tweet thread for

Josh:

this episode, say, uh, just thumbs up or thumbs down.

Josh:

Well, anyone who listens to the episode will understand no one else will get it.

Lindsay:

I'll use that leg emoji that has like the knee and the foot with the thumbs up or a thumbs down.

Josh:

Yeah, that, that is perfect.

Josh:

I appreciate that.

Josh:

Do a thumbs up for the left and the thumbs up for the right.

Josh:

So to knee emojis, we need an, a thumbs up or thumbs down beside it.

Josh:

So maybe it only healed one.

Josh:

The flow was just going one way.

Josh:

You know, you never know

Lindsay:

There was a kink in the other one.

Lindsay:

Didn't

Lindsay:

it's

Lindsay:

like when you're trying to use the hose and there's a kink in it.

Lindsay:

So nothing's coming.

Josh:

And so you

Josh:

just angrily flip the hose, trying to get it instead of walking two feet to

Lindsay:

And then you end up getting splashed all over the

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

Yeah,

Lindsay:

Yeah,

Josh:

man, we all lived the same life.

Josh:

I think.

Lindsay:

we've all been there.

Josh:

Yeah, we we've all experienced it.

Josh:

so Bruno intends to make everyone filled with the joy of living and free from emotional problems in addition to the physical ones.

Josh:

as he said, quote, my teaching is an absolute statement of the truth of life.

Josh:

Many of my friends live by it and have success accepting this teaching brought them complete inner transformation, which in many cases led to success with their health and quote, as strange as it might seem groaning believed he had a noble mission to help troubled.

Josh:

There is however, a twist to his method that might be unexpected.

Josh:

It does not require his presence.

Josh:

So he cuts himself out completely, which is something not a lot of golf.

Josh:

Well, he's not a cult leader, but you know what I mean?

Josh:

Like a

Lindsay:

That's something contemporary, current leaders would not down with that.

Josh:

know, they would say, you need me pay me, was

Josh:

just teach you how to do this.

Josh:

so, a bold strategy cotton, let's see how it plays out for him.

Josh:

So he maintains it, the healing from his teaching, our spiritual and can go on without him.

Josh:

So he gave his teaching to people to take on their way.

Josh:

He strongly appealed to the people to not only believe in good, but to also act on it.

Josh:

so.

Josh:

as most ideas, it's not unusual for it to snowball into something massive.

Josh:

So the circle of friends is a coming together of people who have found groanings teachings useful and have incorporated them into their daily lives.

Josh:

Membership of this group is voluntary.

Josh:

And anyone who doesn't want associate despite following groanings method is free not to join.

Josh:

So very

Lindsay:

loosey-goosey.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

you can follow it, but you don't have to be part of the group.

Josh:

And that's fine with them.

Josh:

So very positive and upbeat.

Josh:

I like that.

Josh:

That is, that is the kind of cults we like.

Josh:

this international society for healing by spiritual means did not develop by groanings active efforts.

Josh:

Gretta Hausler was the founder of this movement.

Josh:

It started because she suffered from three incurable aliens.

Josh:

In 1950 Gretta met Bruno groaning and found healing for her ailments in her first encounter.

Josh:

Naturally she became uh, close associate after that encounter and kept working to spread groanings cause and established communities in Austria in 1959, groaning died, but she found out that the healing continued despite the sad event, 20 years later, she founded the circle of friends intending

Josh:

it is kind of curious, like, I've never seen a cult start after the leader died.

Josh:

You know what I mean?

Lindsay:

Yeah,

Josh:

well.

Josh:

What do we call Kristy?

Josh:

Hannani that's

Lindsay:

yeah.

Josh:

too, too far, too soon, too

Lindsay:

To sit too soon.

Lindsay:

It's only,

Lindsay:

only so

Lindsay:

many

Lindsay:

centuries too soon.

Lindsay:

Just a couple.

Josh:

a few thousand years.

Lindsay:

Yeah.

Josh:

No, but it is interesting.

Josh:

Right.

Josh:

and I would say if they did it for profit, that would be like terrible, but they're, they're obviously not.

Josh:

I mean, they accept donations, as most churches and stuff do,

Josh:

but, uh, they don't demand, payment or anything like that.

Josh:

I think we get into that.

Josh:

Yeah,

Josh:

we do.

Josh:

So I'll, I'll shut up and read my script.

Lindsay:

I'm just jumping ahead and

Lindsay:

my notes.

Josh:

yeah.

Josh:

You know, I have my wine wanders.

Josh:

Um, so, the circle of friends.

Josh:

attracted only a handful of adherence and it's early days.

Josh:

However, after about a decade of existence, the group entered a period of very rapid growth right now.

Josh:

the Bruno groanings circle of friends has a local community in every country in Europe and has a presence on every continent.

Josh:

It is certainly now one of the world's largest associations for spiritual healing in the world.

Josh:

Gretta Hausler died sadly in 2007 and the Baton of leadership was passed under sun Deiter, which I don't think is the same diner that he healed from muscular dystrophy, sadly, but it is kinda cool that, maybe That's the other name that's in German.

Josh:

That's the only other name is Deiter.

Josh:

Um, so at the community level, the society operates quite soon.

Josh:

a circle of friends meet every three weeks for community hours.

Josh:

Ideally the members of the group should take out time to absorb the Hellstrom every day to remain healthy in the community meetings, healing occurs, and there are community meetups for youth and children, just as the ones for adults.

Josh:

There are no entry fees into the society.

Josh:

Similarly, there are no membership contributions or other financial requirements of members.

Josh:

However, just as membership is free, avant tarry donations are welcome from the members, to carry out any essential tasks.

Josh:

anyone is also, free to volunteer their skills when needed.

Josh:

I imagine they need the donations to book, a hall or wherever they happen to practice.

Josh:

Um, I'm sure that's what the money is for.

Josh:

the reason for this is to demonstrate selflessness and love for one's fellow man.

Josh:

Of course, this is what Bruno, both preached and lived.

Josh:

in any case, the group tries hard to be very accountable for all donations, any amount left after the tasks have been taken care of, finds use in lofty projects.

Josh:

One of those is producing schooling materials for both German and foreign friends, them, equitably,

Lindsay:

That's nice.

Josh:

yeah, like I said, story today.

Lindsay:

Yeah.

Lindsay:

I mean, it's cool that

Lindsay:

they're like, we're not screaming from the top.

Lindsay:

We're not profiting from this where this is what

Lindsay:

we're using it

Lindsay:

for.

Lindsay:

And then when we're done with it, we're going to put it towards something else.

Lindsay:

That's good.

Josh:

We're going to put it towards the community, as I believe a lot of, you know, group should.

Josh:

And, uh, like I, like, there's a lot to be said about the church, like Christian churches or whatever church, but they do end up a lot of the money does go back to, the community.

Josh:

Probably not enough.

Josh:

We'll save that for another day.

Josh:

But,

Josh:

but Yeah.

Josh:

so groaning believed a lot in freewill as man's most essential attribute, he said, quote, I may help someone to find the way towards the good, but may neither take away his choice about it nor force them to do good.

Josh:

Everyone must find his own way himself And And this seems to filter down to the society's operations as there are no legal, financial, or even religious obligations to associating.

Josh:

in the circle of friends, all healing scenarios are acts of God's grace.

Josh:

So generally this society makes no promises or guarantees healing.

Josh:

This snowballs into why there are no examinations, diagnosis, treatments, or therapies in the circle of friends, groaning never preached against visiting doctors, taking medications or undergoing surgeries.

Josh:

If there is need for him, he, he obviously did a surgery himself.

Josh:

Um, so they don't claim they'll heal you, but they don't, you know, they don't allow examinations or, or.

Josh:

scientific examinations of their methods.

Josh:

So, just keep that in mind.

Josh:

They do not discourage anyone from getting proper medical treatment, they also in themselves do not recommend or prescribe any medications nor distributed them.

Josh:

However, , groaning himself, tried to get close to physicians during his time.

Josh:

He subjected himself , to a test commissioned by the Heidelberg university clinic.

Josh:

And his results were remarkable.

Josh:

Apparently that exercise did not eventually yield any fruit because groaning refused to use the abilities for commercial gain.

Josh:

So I guess they couldn't profit off of it, but,

Josh:

um, But like I said, it seems like it's just a lot of, like, it's a version of meditation, which is, is proven to help, like boost immune system and boost, mental and physical health.

Josh:

So I'm sure that's all it is.

Josh:

I don't know how prominent meditation was in Germany back in the day.

Josh:

So they were probably just like, this is crazy think good thoughts and they feel good.

Josh:

Wow.

Lindsay:

is this?

Josh:

What a realization?

Josh:

Overall Bruno groanings circle of friends is altruistic.

Josh:

The society intends to help its members, attain spiritual maturity while also making them aware that they are responsible for them.

Josh:

As groaning once said to a gathering quote, I want you to become the masters of life.

Josh:

Everyone is the architect of their own future for man reaps.

Josh:

What he sows end quote.

Josh:

He also preach collaboration among people which the group following his teachings, aim to achieve regular exchange of experiences among people hasten spiritual development after all one helps the other.

Josh:

God helps us all as groaning said, and That is Bruno groaning and the circle of friends.

Josh:

Lindsey, what are your thoughts?

Josh:

lighten your spirit today?

Lindsay:

That gave me the warm fuzzies.

Lindsay:

I mean, it's, I don't believe in that spiritual stuff, but at the same time, if that's something that helps you and you have a lot of belief in that, can't fault you for that.

Lindsay:

No one should fault you

Lindsay:

for that.

Lindsay:

You

Lindsay:

know, belief is a powerful thing.

Lindsay:

So faith is a powerful thing.

Lindsay:

do I think it's in the cure cancer?

Lindsay:

No, but

Lindsay:

it might make you feel.

Lindsay:

But it might make you feel better as you're getting treated for cancer.

Josh:

Yeah, no, I agree.

Josh:

A hundred percent, I think has, I I've said this many times throughout this episode, So

Josh:

I don't want to ramble on about it, but do think, as someone who has, you know, uh, experienced depression and, dealt with, you know, some sad times and some, some, issues I have found meditation to

Josh:

just a more positive outlook on life and, it can give you some sort of peace.

Josh:

And so I could see that being helpful for many people who deal with, you know, depression, anxiety, PTSD, anything like that.

Josh:

So, I would never dissuade anyone from, from trying this kind of method.

Josh:

Uh, they are, they aren't technically claiming to heal you so, so good for them.

Josh:

So have you ever wanted to try this?

Josh:

Uh, definitely look up the practices, see if it's something that interests you.

Josh:

I want to clarify this.

Josh:

It will not cure you of cancer as Lindsay said.

Josh:

but if you're just feeling, a little down, it's been two years of just terrible news.

Josh:

So, so,

Lindsay:

Yep.

Josh:

if this helps you, then it helps you,

Lindsay:

We

Lindsay:

could all use some more friends.

Josh:

We could all use some more friends.

Josh:

That is a great dammit.

Josh:

I wish this was the end.

Josh:

Cause we got to go to our, know, we're going to our cult, call it critique.

Josh:

Damn it.

Josh:

You should save that line Lindsey.

Lindsay:

All right, cut it

Lindsay:

out.

Lindsay:

Cut it

Lindsay:

out.

Lindsay:

I'll save

Lindsay:

it.

Josh:

it in and shove it.

Josh:

at the end.

Josh:

Yeah.

Lindsay:

There you go.

Lindsay:

I'll just repeat it at the

Lindsay:

end.

Lindsay:

You just give me a wink and

Josh:

yeah.

Josh:

All right.

Josh:

All right.

Josh:

but I'm also going to leave this part in, so you'll just look down and repeating,

Lindsay:

say it in a monotone voice.

Josh:

like the person who repeated the joke as if no one heard it, but everyone heard it.

Josh:

It just, wasn't funny.

Lindsay:

Exactly.

Josh:

so as I mentioned, it is time for cult critique.

Josh:

That is the part of the episode where my guest and I discuss the cult we just talked about and give it a rating at a five stars as how well it did as a cult.

Josh:

you've done this before, Lindsay.

Josh:

There's no hard and fast rule.

Josh:

You know, it can be five for whatever you want.

Josh:

Five is a good.

Josh:

Whatever you want to do.

Josh:

So what would you give the circle of friends as a rating?

Lindsay:

I'd give it like a four and a half.

Lindsay:

It's like you said, it's not really like the guy that it's based on was a good dude.

Lindsay:

He did lots of good things for people.

Lindsay:

His intentions were good.

Lindsay:

He never claimed to do Rasputin levels of healing.

Lindsay:

Like pants would be gone and, you know, you can walk again and you can see again, like, you know, like he wasn't that type of voodoo type person.

Lindsay:

A lot of his principles are things that I personally think are great.

Lindsay:

You know, as far as reconnecting with nature and meditate, the power of meditation and positive thinking, the fact that this group isn't charging you membership fees to

Lindsay:

be part

Lindsay:

of.

Josh:

like many other cults.

Josh:

Yeah.

Lindsay:

Yeah.

Lindsay:

And they're not trying to sell you stuff to

Lindsay:

enhance your, your healing powers or anything, you know,

Lindsay:

like they're not trying to sell

Lindsay:

you any drugs or something, you know?

Lindsay:

Like, so it just, like you said, it seems like a genuinely, peer hearted.

Lindsay:

And at least from the outside, nothing is throwing any red flags my way.

Lindsay:

And it seems like they're just a genuinely good group of people.

Josh:

that is a, that is a great, up for that.

Josh:

I don't know.

Josh:

Top it, I would say 4.5 as well.

Josh:

and my reason is different.

Josh:

I think it would be a five-star if groaning had been the one to start the cult,

Lindsay:

yeah,

Lindsay:

yeah,

Josh:

I would have loved to see groaning been there, to establish, I mean, he did start, you know, like I think, I think it would have eventually become that if he had lived a bit longer.

Josh:

and maybe, you know, I, this is terrible to say, but maybe it was good that he died as young as he did maybe.

Josh:

Cause I think the power does corrupt and, and you never know it could have eventually did that to him.

Josh:

Um, I'd like to think it wouldn't have, but 4.5 because it is a great, as far as costs go, this is the best one I've ever talked about.

Josh:

Uh, I think they mean, well, they genuinely want people to be better and do better.

Josh:

I had didn't read anything about sketchy behavior or anything like that.

Josh:

I mean, A very large organization.

Josh:

I'm sure there's probably something.

Josh:

maybe it just hasn't come out.

Josh:

I have no idea.

Josh:

so I apologize if we're putting it in a good light and there's something, but overall I think their teachings and what they strive for are good And I really liked that he came from a family that put him down and made him feel like an outcast and he turned that into something good.

Josh:

And I think that's, that shows just how strong he was as a person.

Josh:

And, uh, I think Bruno groaning is a tier cult leader, even though he wasn't the leader.

Lindsay:

Yeah.

Lindsay:

It's like, if

Lindsay:

you look at his childhood, he had so many opportunities to turn into a complete douche bag or a

Josh:

oh,

Lindsay:

serial killer

Lindsay:

type

Lindsay:

person.

Lindsay:

Like he has so many opportunities based off all the horrible, traumatic stuff he went through and he stayed in an awesome guy throughout his entire

Josh:

yeah.

Josh:

Yeah.

Lindsay:

yeah.

Lindsay:

Kudos to you.

Josh:

I mean, I doubt Gertrude feels the same, but you

Lindsay:

I mean, she killed her kids just kidding.

Lindsay:

She didn't really kill her kids, but she didn't really,

Lindsay:

I blame you

Josh:

so fun.

Lindsay:

She's kidding.

Josh:

And on that note, we will wrap up Bruno groaning and the circle of friends.

Josh:

but before we go, Lindsay, please tell Fred about your crime and pineapple pizza podcasts, where can they find them?

Josh:

What's it about whatever you want to talk about.

Lindsay:

Sure.

Lindsay:

you'll crime is about strange, obscure, hilarious crimes that take place pre 1900.

Lindsay:

It's a show I do with my sister Madison, and we just kind of discuss random things that take place in history that most people don't know about.

Lindsay:

And pineapple pizza is a podcast that I do with my friends, Emily and Ashley, who you might know from drink drunk, dead, and studying Scarlet.

Lindsay:

And we talk about myths cryptids and urban legends from different countries around the world.

Lindsay:

And that's just kind of a fun time to talk about.

Lindsay:

All the bananas stuff that is out there.

Lindsay:

And I've learned so much for doing research on that show.

Lindsay:

Uh, you can find

Lindsay:

us,

Josh:

that come out of that

Lindsay:

oh

Lindsay:

my God.

Lindsay:

So many good quotes.

Josh:

And Emily just messaged me the other day.

Josh:

so behind the scenes, they're a part of the cultivate podcast network.

Josh:

So, they're part of the family, as we're calling it.

Josh:

and she asked me, I think of if I wanted to come on and do a topic.

Josh:

So I might, you might, you might see me there.

Josh:

Fred, you might see me on pineapple pizza podcast someday,

Lindsay:

We're always looking for

Lindsay:

guests

Lindsay:

chefs.

Lindsay:

No, you should come on.

Lindsay:

I think you could have a

Josh:

Um,

Lindsay:

segment,

Josh:

I'd love that.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

sorry I interrupted your, your plug.

Josh:

Go continue.

Lindsay:

no, that's totally fine.

Lindsay:

Um, I was just going to say, you can find us pretty much wherever you get your podcasts.

Lindsay:

We're on Twitter and Instagram for both shows and yeah, we're proud members of the cultivating network, both shows.

Josh:

Yeah, I'll put every, I'll put the links all in the show notes So

Josh:

you can go check.

Josh:

wherever you listen to podcasts, and, definitely go check them out, a yield crime, killing it.

Josh:

Great episodes recently.

Josh:

I've been loving them.

Josh:

and then pineapple pizza, as I said, always go there for a great quote.

Lindsay:

if you like inappropriate humor, we are where the place for you,

Josh:

yeah, if you

Josh:

also listen to read it on Wiki, you will, enjoy that podcast.

Josh:

I can

Lindsay:

Yeah.

Josh:

it's very similar humor

Lindsay:

version of a Reddit on Wiki.

Josh:

and therefore the better version, I will say that definitely better researched.

Josh:

I will definitely claim that one

Lindsay:

We don't have any porn, but, uh, There are some times when it

Lindsay:

feels

Lindsay:

that way,

Josh:

go there?

Josh:

Lindsey?

Lindsay:

we got different kinds of smut.

Lindsay:

We'll just say that

Josh:

It's all a moth man spot.

Lindsay:

month, man,

Josh:

finally, if you enjoyed this episode, please consider giving us a five-star review on apple podcasts, good pods, pod chaser, and now Spotify.

Josh:

if you really loved this episode and can't wait to hear more, you can go to our patrion.com/cultivate podcast network, or use this link in the show notes to get access to episodes a week early, as well as a ton of other bonus content from this show.

Josh:

And from many other shows on our network, such as yield crime and pineapple pizza podcast, there in the I forget what the tier, is called, but there's tiers.

Josh:

There's different tiers.

Josh:

And, uh,

Lindsay:

just like in a

Josh:

Sean is going to hate me.

Lindsay:

I think we're in the top tier,

Lindsay:

something like

Josh:

You, uh, you guys are in one of the upper tiers, so, it's like Netflix, you go, you pay one subscription and you get access to.

Josh:

All of the podcasts and the cultivating network.

Josh:

So it was a great deal and it helps out the show and the other shows on our network.

Josh:

so thank you very much for listening, Fred, and thank you Lindsay very much for coming back on.

Josh:

I'm sure we'll have you on again.

Josh:

Uh,

Lindsay:

Always happy to come on.

Josh:

a dark one next time.

Josh:

We'll balance it out somewhere.

Lindsay:

good.

Lindsay:

I'm too

Lindsay:

happy now.

Josh:

you're too happy now.

Josh:

We've got

Lindsay:

I can, my soul feels lighter.

Josh:

the last one we did was a Nazi cult.

Lindsay:

Yeah.

Lindsay:

Was

Lindsay:

I'm sure the next one will be too if they kind of it's a running theme.

Josh:

there's there's a lot of cults involved in Nazis.

Josh:

I'm I'm just realizing now that was either not shocking or very shocking.

Josh:

I'm not sure which one, but we'll find out as we continue down this rabbit hole of all the cults.

Josh:

so thank you for again for listening.