Our special guest is Eula Adams, former President of First Data Merchant Sevices.

In this episode, part of our trailblazer series, Eula takes us on his career journey as he climbed to positions of influence within the ranks of two major companies; Deloitte and First Data Corporation. Capping off his decision ( no-holds-barred exposure) leading up to his resignation from First Data, as one of the company's six (6) appointed Senior Executive Vice Presidents. On this journey, Eula shares his insights into management and along the way a few actionable takeaways...Enjoy.

I learned that as I came up through the ranks, I had to be okay

2

with having the people who work for me

have slightly different approaches about

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how they went about doing the very task

that I wanted them to do and be okay if

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it wasn't exactly the way I wanted it

done, but the end result accomplished

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what I needed to have them accomplish.

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Welcome to Bridges to Excellence Podcast.

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Inspired leadership in

payments and fintech.

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Bringing you conversations

with payments most fascinating

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people on top of their game.

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Leaders, influencers,

experts, and innovators.

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Each weekly episode turns our

guests wisdom into practical advice.

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Their personal journey starts now.

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are meant to inspire and challenge

you to explore your possibilities.

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Here's your host, Desmond Nicholson.

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In this episode part of our Trailblazer

series, we're talking to Eula

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Adams, a former senior executive

leader of First Data Corporation.

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Adams rose from humble

beginnings to become one of

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the top players at First Data.

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In 2002, Adams was appointed

one of six senior executive

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vice presidents of First Data.

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And made president of its Omaha, Nebraska

based first data Resources division.

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In this role, Adams oversaw 11,000

employees in the United States,

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the United Kingdom, and Australia.

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Other appointments during his career.

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At First Data included President of

Teleservices, President of Merchant

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Services, and for a brief period,

Chief Operating Officer of Western

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Union, acquired by First Data in 1995.

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Adams corporate rise led him

to be named one of the 50 most

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powerful black executives by

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Prior to his 12-year span at First

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Harvard University Business School, and

in the same year his CPA certification.

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joined the prestigious accounting firm,

Touche and Ross later, Deloitte and

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Touche, where he worked his way up the

corporate ladder to become the first

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African-American partner in the firm.

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Later advancing to become an executive

committee member where he oversaw the

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audit group of the Atlanta region.

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All while concurrently serving military

duties in George's Air National Guard from

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Deloitte, he went on to work for American

Express Information Services, which later

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morphed into First Data along his journey.

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Eula.

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Will be sharing with us insightful

wisdom and a few actionable takeaways.

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Eula, welcome to our show

and thanks for being here.

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Track 1: No, thank you for inviting me.

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I'm, honored.

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I'm really glad we were able to sync our

calendars, as someone in semi-retirement.

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You are quite a busy guy, aren't you?

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Into,

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Well, I'm, trying to stay busy these days.

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There's still, uh, I feel a lot

to be done and I feel as though

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I still have a lot to contribute,

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Desmond Nicholson: we

have much to talk about,

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Track 1: Thank you.

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Desmond Nicholson: right into it.

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Now take us

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Track 1: Yes.

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Desmond Nicholson: your early life,

where you grew up and what your

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life was like, what growing up.

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Track 1: Well, thank you for asking that

question, because I always like to share

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this part of the story for people and I

realize we're always short on time, so

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I'll try and, and be as brief as I can.

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I grew up from pretty humble beginnings.

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My, parents were divorced at

a very early age, so my mother

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raised, two boys,, on her own.

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She was a housekeeper.

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And, you know, I say this part of

the story because a lot of people can

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relate to,, being in that position

back in the fifties and sixties.

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And she did her best to build and

instilled in us some really, good

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qualities about working hard, being

responsible, being accountable.

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And she would go to work during the

mornings and send us off to school, and

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she would come back and say, all right,

when you get home in the afternoon, I

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want you to make sure the house is clean.

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You've got these duties.

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one, brother washed, the dishes and

took care of the kitchen, and the other

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brother, , swept the floors, made up

the beds, and did things like that.

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So, we were accustomed to having tasked

to do from a very early, age in life.

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And, so that's what we grew up.

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Now, along the way, we

did what young boys do.

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We were active in athletics.

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My older brother, who's about a

year and a half older than I am, we

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both, played high school sports,

football and basketball, and ran track.

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, we we're from Jacksonville, Florida

originally, even though we were born

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in Georgia, but grew up in Jacksonville

and things were pretty competitive.

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We were blessed to have gone to one

of the, really famous schools in

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Jacksonville at the time, which is

now, called Stanton High School.

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we had a very famous football

coach at, Stanton by the name

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of, bubbling Pop Smalls.

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coach James Smalls was a fellow who

wanted to see his kids do well in life.

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And he promoted the idea of

college and other things.

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And so, uh, I was fortunate that when I

played for him, I'm not sure I was ever a

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great football player, but, I played for

him and he made sure we got, , scholarship

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opportunities and I was blessed to get

an opportunity to attend Morris Brown

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College on a football scholarship.

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Desmond Nicholson: Okay.

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And that was of course a

historical black college

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Track 1: Yes.

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Morris Brown was historically black

college, started by the Methodist Church.

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Desmond Nicholson: now.

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what was it like there and how did it

really prepare you for the road ahead?

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Track 1: Well, because I grew up

Desmond in what I would call the

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segregated south, even though we grew

up during the civil rights movement,

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we largely lived and operated in

almost predominantly, black world.

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Most of the things we did from the time we

got up in the mornings to the time we went

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to, bed in the evening, most of the people

we interacted with were African Americans.

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Or blacks or even

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Desmond Nicholson: I.

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Track 1: some called

us colored at the time.

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But we, interacted.

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So going to Morris Brown for me,

since I was basically the first

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person in my family to actually

attend college everything was

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a, learning experience for me.

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It was brand new.

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And it was at a time when the Vietnam

War was going on, and certainly there

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was always the possibility that if you

didn't do well in college, you could

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be called into the military and find

yourself being sent off to Vietnam.

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I was blessed in the sense that football

and college gave me, reasons to focus on

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school, because failing was not an option.

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going back to Jacksonville and having

failed in, in college and then going

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off to the war was not something

that could even be contemplated.

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It.

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So whatever was required on the football

field, whatever was required in the

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classroom, we made sure that we got up

every day and we did what was necessary.

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And I had a really good role model in my

roommate and fellow for, , Jacksonville,

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individual by the name of Wesley Smith.

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And Wesley and I played high

school football together, and

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Wesley was my roommate in college.

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and we had a wonderful experience, , in

college for four years together.

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WEsley went off to law school at

Michigan and became a lawyer and a

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district attorney in Jacksonville.

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And I went off to Harvard

Business School after working

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for a couple of years in Atlanta.

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we both.

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Competed for good grades in college.

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We competed for, success

on the football field.

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he was more successful

in both than I ever was.

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He was a better football player and

I think probably a better student.

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but he, dragged me along and I made

sure that I did my homework every,

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evening just like he was doing it.

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And lo and behold, I started

getting really great grades and I

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started doing very well in college.

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I, have to be candid with you, I

wasn't a great high school student.

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I was a C student in high school and I

became a, a great student in college,

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mostly because I was around people in an

environment where, doing your work and

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getting good grades and the motivation

of not, wanting to go to the military and

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not wanting to go back to Jacksonville.

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kept me in the books and so I, started

seeing success and just like so

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many other things in my life, once I

started feeling success academically,

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I continued to, love and enjoy the

feedback of that academic success.

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So as I got good grades, I wanted

to continue to get 'em, and so

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that was a great motivator for me

and really almost like a launching

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pad to my academic success.

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Desmond Nicholson: what led up to your

getting into Harvard Business School

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and is there a story behind that?

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Track 1: there is a story and I've

shared this with a lot of people, but

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my wife Janet, and Janet and I have been

together for over 50 years, and she's

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also a Morris Brown student, a graduate.

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She's a former accounting student as well.

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while we were in college together,

she had a dream, that I went

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to Harvard Business School.

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And that again, just like so many

other things, I was smitten by this

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young lady in college and by golly, if

she thought I was gonna go to Harvard

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Business School, I went off and I

started filling out applications and

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doing the work necessary to get in.

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And lo and behold, I was admitted,

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Desmond Nicholson: let's

move forward a bit.

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Now you're at one of the most prestigious

CPA of firms in the country, Touche

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Ross later, Deloitte and Touche.

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You work hard, advancing your career,

through the proverbial glass ceiling

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to become a partner in record time,

not just a partner, but the first

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African American partner at the firm.

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What was that experience like?

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Track 1: it's hard to relate to this today

given where, the world is and what we've

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all accomplished, and so many people go

and travel in and out of Atlanta, Georgia

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today, and they see in Atlanta, Georgia.

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That looks like a real mecca for African

Americans, but that's not the Atlanta

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that I knew when I came out of college.

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In fact, I, have to tell people when

I went to work in downtown Atlanta

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for . , uh, I would show up at work every

day, and I wouldn't see another African

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American unless they were working in

a restaurant as a waiter or a server.

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There were no other people of

color that worked in any positions

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where they were professionals.

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They weren't running businesses,

they weren't running operation.

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So the Atlanta, Georgia that I

knew and when I started at Touche

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Ross was a very different one.

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And I was blessed to have a

gentleman who did employ me there

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by the name of Gerald LaCroix.

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And I have to tell you

the image of Gerald.

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I, always have to tell people about

him because he was an old southern

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gentleman that wore Sears sucker suits,

fits all your stereotypes of what a

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southern gentleman looked like back

in the day, with his Sears sucker

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white, shirt on and his southern draw.

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And smoking a cigarette or a cigar.

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So he fit, all the stereotypes, but the

one thing that he was at least forward

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thinking about was a willingness to bring

me on board in the earliest days when

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he didn't really have to, but he hired

me and, he sat down with me and he would

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spend time with me almost every month,

Desmond, where he would take me out.

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He would find out how things were

going with me, how I was integrating

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in other aspects of the firm.

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And he did that from the very

beginning of my career at Touche Ross.

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He, made me comfortable.

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He made me feel like he really wanted

me and the other people in the firm

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saw how he treated me, and it had a

direct bearing on how others responded.

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Now, I will tell you, they

were, they were careful about

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the kind of assignments I got.

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,. For example, we had a wonderful bank

client in Augusta, Georgia, but he

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wouldn't send me to Augusta, Georgia.

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and he, made a promise to me that

he would try and not, assign me to

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places that would be uncomfortable

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and so he was considerate enough about

that, and that's what really helped me

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to be comfortable and to stay there.

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so I got off to a good start now,

with respect to the work, because that

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was the tricky part, not having known

anybody who had worked in a public

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accounting firm, most of the people that

I encountered, it was in a textbook sense.

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And most of my professors had

never worked in an accounting firm.

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So anything that they could teach

me was more theoretical from

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textbooks are what they imagined.

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So I had to practice this thing, which

sometimes, we, talk about how do you

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figure out the right things to do

in a culture and a world where you,

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really don't have any grounding in it.

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it's not like your parents

around the dinner table can coach

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you on how to play the game.

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So even little things like, how do you

behave the right way when you're going

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out to lunch with people, using the

right instruments and doing the right

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things, or how do you make sure when

you're given an area to work on that

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you get the work done the right way.

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in those days someone would review

your work and they would give

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you what they call todo points.

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these are points that after I review all

your work, I give you individual comments.

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On every single sheet of paper

that you wrote your name on and

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tell you what you did wrong.

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So I started setting goals for myself

that I didn't want any todo points,

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so I'm gonna do the work so well the

first time that whoever reviews it

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will not find anything wrong with it.

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And that became the standard for me in

my public accounting career to say, I'm

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gonna get as close to being perfect.

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Not that you ever could, but I'm

gonna get as close to being perfect

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as I could and I'm gonna soak it up.

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And, and the tricky part about

professions, you can relate to

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this, I'm sure, and our viewers

can relate to this, the world we

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work in isn't like the textbooks.

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People change the rules and they interpret

them differently for different situations.

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And it was the hardest thing for me

to get used to working with different

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people that I would work for one

person who would want it one way.

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then I would work for somebody else

who would want it a different way.

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And it became always a challenge to

try and figure out how to get it the

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right way for one person and then do it,

the different way for the next person.

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And so I acquired all those

kind of skills as I came up

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through the ranks Touche Ross.

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And the accounting profession was a

really good learning, foundation for

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me in dealing with the subtleties

and the differences of the business

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world where it constantly changes

depending on the whims sometimes and

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the ideas of the person you work for

in terms of how they interpret things.

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So it was always a challenge to figure

out, almost like a game, if you would,

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how can I get this so that the person

who's looking at it will give me the

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best reviews that I could possibly

get, and if it meant I had to work.

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not 12 hour days because it

meant I had to work 16 hour days.

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It was put in whatever was

necessary in order to get the kind

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of favorable response from the

people who were doing the work.

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And along the way, I became a person

that they wanted to do the work.

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I became a person that people had

confidence in because they knew

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that if they gave me something to

do, I was going to go to any end

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to get it done and, make it happen.

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So that, I think, contributed

directly to my rising up through

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the ranks of Touche Ross.

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Desmond Nicholson: Eula, I know you're

not aware of this, but I also worked

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for Deloitte, this was in 1979 to

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Track 1: Yes.

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Desmond Nicholson: At that time, they

were called Deloitte Haskins and Sells.

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That's the same company,

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Track 1: That's right.

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Desmond Nicholson: that.

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Track 1: That's the same company.

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And we didn't merge with them until 89.

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So when you were there, we were still two

different competitors and very different

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competitors Deloitte's culture versus

to Ross's culture was night and day.

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And I actually think for me, in

so many ways, the culture of,

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Touche Ross fits my personality

more than the culture of Deloitte.

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And part of the reason I ended up not

staying with Deloitte had a lot to

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do with the difference in culture.

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Touch.

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Ross was much more of a younger

firm and much more open to having,

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and giving people an opportunity.

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like Deloitte, had a different approach

to how they grew their organization,

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Touche Ross had a different approach

to how it grew its organization.

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Neither one was, wrong.

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Each one led to a positive result.

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And so when I had to do technical

inquiries for offices and clients

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in the firm, the trick was how to

respond in a way that allowed for the

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differences to uh, manifest themselves

and not say in a prescriptive way,

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this is the only way to do it.

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And so it helped me for the

rest of my business career.

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To be able to work with different people,

to manage different people, because I had

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to get comfortable with different answers.

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as I mentioned earlier, I learned

that I had to work with different

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managers and different supervisors,

and they all had their slightly

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different ways of doing things.

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Then I learned that as I came up through

the ranks, I had to be okay with having

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the people who work for me have slightly

different approaches about how they

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went about doing the very task that

I wanted them to do and be okay if

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it wasn't exactly the way I wanted it

done, but the end result accomplished

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what I needed to have them accomplish.

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And so it's played very well for

me in my business career because

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I have a broad range of acceptable

things as long as the ending outcome.

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Achieve the basic objective.

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and I know that so many people

get so strict in terms of

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how things have to be done.

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It makes it difficult for other people to

work for them, and it makes it difficult

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for them to work for other people.

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Desmond Nicholson: to

understand this though.

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Achieving executive committee membership,

or at least partnership in a firm

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like Deloitte is often a lifetime

goal for most career CPAs in firms

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like Deloitte, you had achieved both.

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What prompted you to leave?

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Track 1: Well, this is interesting to

me because I concluded a career path for

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myself that was along what I would call

the administrative path in big firms.

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I believed I could go out and get

business, and I believed I manage people

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and relationships, so I wanted to be.

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Successful on the administrative side.

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When we did the acquisition or the

merger with Deloitte Haskins Sells in

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1989, at the time I was on my way to

achieving my objectives within Touche Ross

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because I was running the audit group.

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So at the time I had 80

professionals under me, a revenue

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stream of about 7 million.

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So I set the budgets I dealt with

with compensation, I dealt with the

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promotions, I dealt with all the aspects

of it, and I still service as clients.

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When we merged with Deloitte

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stronger partner in Atlanta.

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And so the, partners from the old

two Ross firm on the audit side were

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relegated to more line responsibilities,

which meant for me going back into.

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Primarily just auditing.

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And as I saw it, it was limiting

my long-term prospects because

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the partner that ran the Deloitte,

what was called the Deloitte and

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Touch office, was Jim Copeland.

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Jim Copeland had his fellow that ran

the audit practice and the other people.

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And so I, I couldn't see myself and

maybe this was impatience on my part.

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I couldn't see myself trying to work my

way back through the Deloitte structure

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to get into position where one day

they would say, oh, he's a guy who

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could run the entirety of the office.

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And so when an opportunity came, I left.

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My horizon was much bigger

than just Atlanta, Georgia,

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much bigger than just Deloitte.

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As an audit partner, I

wanted to do bigger things.

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I wanted to do things more international.

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I wanted the bigger scale.

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And so when the opportunity came to

join American Express, even though it

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was in Denver, it wasn't in New York,

I jumped at the opportunity to go.

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Desmond Nicholson: it's 1991.

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Your world changed.

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Definitely.

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You join American Express

Information Services in Denver.

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What was your position there?

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Track 1: because of the accounting

background, I came on board as a vice

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president of finance and administration.

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and I was working with, at the time,

what was called American Express

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Information Services Corporation,

which was our smallest subsidiary.

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And it was about, if American

Express was doing maybe 9 billion

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a year in revenue, the information

services court was a billion, and

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they struggled to get capital.

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Half of the revenue came from one

company called First Data Resources,

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and the rest of it came from what

I used to call a collection of

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straight cats and dogs that were doing

everything from, , telecommunications

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call centers to cable billing to,

money transfer to other things.

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But it was, it was a

collection of odd things.

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And, I got there in April of 1991,

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I was working for came in and said.

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Oh, we're gonna be spun out

of American Express next year.

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And I had no idea what that would

really mean, but what it came to

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mean was we were spun off as First

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In that really, for me was, such a

blessing that I never saw coming.

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I never saw the, the notion of,

of being spun off as a separate,

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freestanding, $2 billion market cap

company as being, a source of opening

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great opportunity for me personally.

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Because what we were able to do then was

to go out into the capital markets and

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we were able to raise money, we were able

to do things we never would've been able

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to do as a part of First Data, we were

able to have our own collateral called.

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a stock that we could grow.

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We were able to, get into the

credit markets and raise money.

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So we were able to take what would've been

suppressed within American Express, and

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it was allowed to flourish on its own.

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And so we started growing in

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And we adopted a mantra that said,

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so we're gonna grow revenue at 20%.

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We're gonna grow profit at

20, and we're gonna go return

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on, shareholder equity at 20%.

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And lo and behold, we were able to do it.

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Now, looking back on it, Desmond,

I didn't realize sometimes

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you're just blessed of being

387

Desmond Nicholson: at the

388

Track 1: the right

place at the right time.

389

And the nineties were a wonderful

period for credit cards and, that was

390

a time when all the banks were issuing.

391

Credit cards.

392

We were all getting four and five

daily mailings that seen from

393

banks on credit card offerings.

394

And, first data flourished from

that on its card issuance side.

395

And, later on we flourished

on the merchant side.

396

So our stock price started climbing.

397

we started reporting and as it climbed,

we started acquiring other companies.

398

And as we started acquiring other

companies, we needed people to run them.

399

We needed people to manage things.

400

And so that created for me the

opportunity or the exit from the

401

finance and accounting side into

the general management side.

402

And so I was quick to move out

to the Teleservices group, which

403

had a large contract with MCI.

404

I had, uh, maybe several

thousand people working in call

405

centers in different places.

406

But it gave me a chance to

negotiate contracts with MCI.

407

It gave me a chance to

manage multiple call centers.

408

my p and l was immediately jumping

to, I think it was $200 million

409

a year that I was all of a sudden

now able to be responsible for.

410

But unfortunately, what I learned more was

how to downsize, because the other thing

411

that came with a customer like MCI was

the need to reduce expenses to manage the

412

contract, to try and deal with, employees.

413

Thousands of employees try and manage

a away issues around organizing.

414

So all my Harvard, MBA lessons

and skills that I had acquired

415

all came into practice.

416

And so, I love that period of time.

417

Desmond Nicholson: Okay,

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Track 1: was terrific.

419

Desmond Nicholson: really put the period

420

First data went through this world

of change, IPO, as you mentioned,

421

and the major acquisition of First

Financial Corporation, FFMC, brought

422

in, if my member serves me correctly,

Nabanco Telecheck and Western Union.

423

Now walk us through the highlights of

that period and the role you played.

424

Track 1: All right.

425

So I have to tell you this first.

426

the biggest customer we had

in old Touche Ross was First

427

Financial Management in Atlanta.

428

So I knew First Financial Management

and the fellow that ran it from

429

my days at , , and at Deloitte.

430

So when it came back around.

431

We, competed with them, for an

acquisition out of bankruptcy

432

of a company called New Valley.

433

New Valley owned, Western Union.

434

And Western Union was a small company.

435

It wasn't that big.

436

It might've had 400 million in revenue

at the time, but it was in bankruptcy.

437

Most of his business was in the US.

438

What we did was we bid because

it was sold through an auction.

439

We bid on it because the fellow

I worked for really wanted to own

440

Western Union badly, and we bid against

First Financial Management and we

441

lost First Financial Management.

442

ended up owning Western Union and

then two years later, or a year and

443

a half later, we ended up bidding

to buy First Financial Management,

444

which brought with it Western Union.

445

As you said, it brought Telecheck.

446

It brought, Nabanco and the merchant

business, and it also brought a

447

healthcare business, a health services

business that was pretty sizeable.

448

We paid $7 billion for it and the

collection, and if you really equate

449

it and did the math around it, what

we bid, which was our high end bid

450

on Western Union, was about 400

million when it was in bankruptcy.

451

We ended up paying 1.6 billion for

it a year and a half later as a

452

part of First Financial Management.

453

But what that acquisition did for

First Data was it created really

454

three strong pillars for First Data.

455

It, well, you could say four.

456

It created a payments, , a money

transfer business called Western Union.

457

It created a merchant business,

which really is today called Merchant

458

Services, and then it also . created

another business, which was an issuing

459

business on the card issuance side.

460

Those three uh, businesses, by the

time I left First Data, each one

461

of those businesses probably did.

462

the merchant business did

maybe 5 billion a year.

463

The, the issuance business did about

three, and Western Union did about three.

464

So that wouldn't be about 10

billion a year in revenue.

465

So the same company that in 91 spun

out of American Express as a billion

466

dollar company, by the time it got

467

with a $25 billion market cap.

468

Now, what was exciting about this period

of time was we probably completed over

469

70 acquisitions of different companies,

and we exceeded wildly our expectations

470

in the stock market because our

initial stock price was $22 a share.

471

and we drove our stock price to 88.

472

We split it at 88 to 44, and

then we went back to 88 again.

473

So we created for the shareholders

and investors in First Data and

474

enormous return on their investment.

475

So what was a billion or 2 billion

in market cap was really something

476

that when I left was 25 billion.

477

So, it's one of my, things that

I was associated with that I

478

would say I'm most proud of.

479

Desmond Nicholson: Now.

480

let's look forward from say, 1995

481

What was that period like what

was your role within that period?

482

Track 1: in 1997, and this was really

great and, we got through . The

483

acquisition of First Financial was 95,

and that's when we got Western Union.

484

And for a short while, I was the

Chief Operating Officer of it.

485

And we grew it.

486

We grew it by investing

heavily in its Asian business.

487

We invested heavily in its

Latin American business.

488

We invested heavily in its African

and European business, and it

489

grew massively with the capital

infusion that we put in it.

490

So I was rotated out of that

business to take on a business

491

we had called merchant Services.

492

Now, at the time I was basically,

our CEO's fixer, when we had a

493

problem unit or a new unit, I was

assigned to go and work on the unit.

494

So we had a lot of trouble with our

merchant business and we wanted to

495

sell it because the fellow that was

running it in California, had a lot

496

of difficulty making it profitable.

497

And so I was given the opportunity

to manage the merchant business.

498

Which, for me as I think about highlights

in my business and professional

499

career working with the group of

individuals in the merchant business

500

in First Data has to be the highlight.

501

They were some of the, most clever

individuals and people who knew their

502

space better than almost anyone.

503

And they understood the payments

business from soup to nuts.

504

They understood what I would call

discount interchange and assessment.

505

They understood Visa, MasterCard, and

Amex and, payments and how to grow

506

the payment space, like no one else.

507

And we had probably 50% of the market

at, at a time when, consumers were

508

moving away from checks and cash

to being comfortable with credit

509

card and making payments on credit.

510

So we were in a really good spot on

the merchant business, and it took off.

511

I mean, it just started to

grow like you wouldn't believe.

512

And thanks to my, buddies in Melville, New

York, who came up through, Citi's merchant

513

group that we bought from them, that was

that piece that got us Hagerstown, it got

514

us Melville, and it got us, Coral Springs.

515

But those guys knew more about how to

manipulate the, the different payment

516

sources that took place in the, stream

of pavements than anyone I'd ever met.

517

They would come to me with ideas.

518

And Desmond, I made the comment

earlier about being comfortable

519

with people and different risk and

different things that they want to do.

520

So one of the things that.

521

I was able to do with my merchant guys

when they would come to me with ideas.

522

And I'll give you one example of a

clever idea they came to me with once,

523

they said, you know, in, in the payment

space, you get to, you get to determine

524

how you want to refund merchants

for returns,, and how much you wanna

525

round it out to, different, numbers.

526

And they said, well, we were trying

to make our profit level and we had

527

big goals about profit achievement.

528

They said, well, look, we know that when

a merchant has a return, we give them the

529

average repayment on their discount and

interchange, but we could actually change

530

that and move it out more decimal points.

531

And so I said, well, let's

see what it looks like.

532

They made that decision and it turned

out to be $19 million a year in profit

533

little things like that, they

knew better than anyone else.

534

And these were just many of the ideas.

535

they were some of the best guys that I

knew in terms of figuring out ways to,

536

to make a penny in the payments industry.

537

Desmond Nicholson: So I guess

you would consider that as a

538

feather in your cap, so to speak.

539

Track 1: I'm, I'm really proud.

540

But you know what I'm proudest of on

that was some of those guys that I know,

541

and Todd was in that group, by the way.

542

You were in that group of people

at the time, so you probably relate

543

clearly to what I'm describing here

as, as to how well they knew the space.

544

Desmond Nicholson: Very much so.

545

Now, conversely, what would you

consider a low point in your career

546

at First Data, and is there anything

you would've done differently?

547

Track 1: I would say when they removed me

from the merchant group and they wanted me

548

to go to Omaha and take 'em to Omaha, and

I really approached it like I approached

549

everything else in life that there's no

such thing as can't, you just do and if

550

you gotta work 20 hours a day to do it.

551

But I found Omaha to be a different place.

552

, First of all, it was the

legacy First Data piece.

553

They believed that they had invented

the credit card industry and if

554

you spent any time in Nebraska

and Omaha, it's very incestuous.

555

it's about the family.

556

And so when I went to Omaha, there

was another fellow running Omaha

557

by the name of David Bayless.

558

And so he and I ended up

like co-presidents of it.

559

But it had 10,000 employees.

560

It was not profitable.

561

And they had huge issues with their

customer base, everything from card

562

holders that they were overcharging.

563

And then they had retail cards

with, people like, GE that

564

they couldn't bring on board.

565

And everybody employed their neighbor.

566

their children.

567

We had not, we we're the largest employer

in the state of Nebraska, and nobody

568

wanted to let anybody go, because

they were their neighbors, they were

569

their family, and we were way bloated.

570

We, had way too much

infrastructure, too many people.

571

And so when I got to Omaha, and this

is, the only comment I'm gonna make

572

about race, I really believe that they

were not comfortable seeing an African

573

American run the operation in Omaha.

574

I've never dealt with what I would

call internal terrorists in an

575

organization like I dealt with in Omaha.

576

And, I dealt with it in this way.

577

I would give.

578

I would host staff meetings and I would

try and give them direction, listen

579

to what they would want to do, how

they would want to do it, encourage

580

them on the notion that we had to

reduce our spending and our costs, and

581

solicit their ideas on how to do it.

582

And I had 19 people

reporting directly to me.

583

And what they would do, Desmond,

is I would do my staff meetings

584

with them during the day.

585

I would give my directions on

what I wanted and what we needed

586

to do and what we agreed to do.

587

And then they would have a call at night.

588

And at night they would have a

call and they would go through all

589

the things we talked about doing.

590

And they would tell each other, don't do

that, don't do this, And, this is what

591

I would call, I learned a lesson about

what I would call internal terrorist.

592

And, I finally woke up one

day and I tried everything.

593

I tried motivational

things like good to great.

594

I tried doing things to inspire

them, but at the end of the day, we

595

needed to take 3000 people out and as

fast as I would take them out, they

596

would hire them back in other areas.

597

And so we never could get it done.

598

And the guy that ran the company was

Charlie Fote that came from Omaha.

599

So they would go to him and then he

actually started assigning spies to

600

come to Omaha and be sitting in my

meetings and he would actually support

601

the things that they were doing or

would countering the things I wanted

602

to do by telling them not to do that.

603

I don't know if you remember the

infamous every morning meetings that

604

we used to hold at 6:00 AM I don't

know if you were a part of those,

605

but he was doing things like that.

606

And so it finally came to a point where.

607

I actually had never known the

notion of quitting on anything.

608

But I do feel at some point my experience

609

myself, damaging my family, all the other

aspects of it, and I needed to get out.

610

And so that low point really led me to

a decision that I needed to resign and

611

leave First Data and it broke my heart.

612

I'd never, conceded in my life on

anything that was, too difficult

613

for me to be successful at.

614

But Omaha

615

Desmond Nicholson: A

616

Track 1: was really sort of my water

617

well, I

618

Desmond Nicholson: are your

tips in seeking out a mentor?

619

Track 1: I get a lot of, people who

ask me today, they look for qualities

620

and they look for attributes.

621

Sometimes they look for

position that someone holds.

622

they look for just, people

who have a simpatico, people

623

who they're comfortable with.

624

And so I think you have to

decide on what you're most

625

comfortable with in the person.

626

Don't be hesitant about asking

if you're part of organizations.

627

in my case, I'm a member of the Kappa

fraternity and so we do a lot of

628

plan mentoring programs where, you

get assigned people to work with.

629

And it's critical to pick

industries, to pick positions.

630

but mostly maybe it's people you can

talk to people you feel comfortable,

631

', you don't need to have a lot of them,

but you also don't need to have just one,

632

But the main thing is to

have at least, at least one.

633

Desmond Nicholson: Now, over

the years, reflecting on lessons

634

you've learned in business, what

would you tell your younger self?

635

Track 1: I'm a very impulsive person,

636

Desmond Nicholson: I.

637

Track 1: and I think my impulsiveness

has gotten me in trouble over the, years.

638

some of it, I think because I

wasn't as aware of the business

639

and corporate game, I didn't always

know how to read the messages.

640

I didn't know how to read some of the

things that people were indirectly

641

telling you without directly telling you.

642

And so I made decisions that in hindsight,

I should have played out differently.

643

Now, as I said, some people are worse

at this than I am, and I've counseled

644

and mentored people who are worse at it.

645

But I think in my younger self, I would

say in hindsight, don't leave First Data

646

because it's not working out at Omaha.

647

stick with it a little while

longer as opposed to deciding,

648

well, if it's not gonna work out

my way, it's time for me to leave.

649

It might've been smarter for me

to stay with First Data longer.

650

Don't be so quick to react, even if

you get negative feedback, even if

651

you have a negative result, and then

make your decision and make your move.

652

I'm not saying don't move, but I'm just

saying be a little bit more patient.

653

And that was, probably the biggest

thing I think I have is reading

654

things the wrong way, reading them

too quickly and being impulsive

655

Desmond Nicholson: Very well now.

656

A major trend and development in the

FinTech space is embedded payments.

657

Now, drawing from your experience as

a CPA as well as decades in payments

658

and technology, where do you see

opportunities for embedded payments?

659

Track 1: Oh, I think

they're all over the place.

660

we used to think about things when we

were all at First Data about that we

661

were doing the laundry and we did have

group service providers that provided

662

a lot of service for companies that

wanted to, accept payments as merchants.

663

And what I think we've morphed to

is the technology and the payment

664

and the platforms that over the

internet have really come so far

665

that if you, built a platform.

666

And you don't think about, well, who do

I need and how do I need to make sure

667

that my customers that are touching

base with my products can complete their

668

transactions as efficiently as possible?

669

Then you're missing a big opportunity

of closing sales right away.

670

Sure.

671

A lot of transactions can be redirected

and rerouted, I work with a couple

672

of people that are building payment.

673

They're building interesting platforms.

674

Sometimes they're retail

platforms, sometimes they're

675

services platforms, sometimes

they're other types of platforms.

676

And this is exactly what my friends in

Infinicept were all about with Todd,

677

Ablowitz, and his team was how can they

help people who really want to be and

678

have a payment solution on the back end?

679

How can they do that?

680

And plus, it's a way to just

enhance your own profitability.

681

It's a way to control your

relationship with your customers,

682

improve service quality.

683

So, I'm working with the guy right

now that has an absolutely fabulous

684

technology that he's built that actually

incorporates film, movies, televisions,

685

retail, every other aspect of it.

686

And we have to think

about embedded payment.

687

We have to think about giving people

the opportunity to execute a transaction

688

anywhere in there for whether they

wanna buy tickets to the movie,

689

whether they wanna buy a garment

someone's wearing, whether they want

690

to inquire about something, do it

without interrupting the programming.

691

let them actually complete a transaction

without interrupting the transaction.

692

And we wanna be able to do it if they're

doing, an activity in person, if

693

they're at a game, So, I see it, the,

the sky's the limit from my perspective.

694

, and it's definitely global.

695

Desmond Nicholson: Good.

696

Thanks for sharing.

697

Eula you are a member of

Harvard Business School Leaders.

698

Am I correct?

699

Track 1: Yes, it took me a while before

I understood that I was a part of that

700

distinguished group and they revealed

that during Black History Month, and

701

it's hard for me to relate to how few

African Americans have really been

702

Desmond Nicholson: Now,

703

Track 1: there.

704

Desmond Nicholson: you a question though.

705

first a statement.

706

Since 1915, over 2300 black students,

as of this recording, attended Harvard

707

Business School and embrace the

school's mission to become leaders

708

who make a difference in the world.

709

How would you describe your contribution

to date upholding this aspiration?

710

Track 1: I didn't, start out thinking

this way, of course, but sometimes fate

711

has a way of leading you someplace.

712

I, do represent first and foremost the

African American community in any and

713

everything I do, and I'm a proud CPA,

I'm a very proud Harvard MBA and so

714

anything I do, any organization I can

be a part of, any activity, whether

715

it's for profit or not for profit,

I want to be at the very front of

716

doing things that make a difference.

717

If it's a commercial enterprise, I want

it to be very successful and I want it

718

to be not something that's gonna be on

the front page of even a local newspaper

719

or, some other publication for something

that we did not do well, we did not do.

720

Right.

721

if it's a not-for-profit organization

that's doing something in the community.

722

I wanted to be doing things that will make

a difference for humanity and for mankind.

723

whether it's a feeding program or it's

homeless program, or if it's something

724

political that even I'm involved in get

on the right side of political things.

725

It, it's not to say that everybody should

believe the same thing politically,

726

but if I'm going to be involved in a

political angle, I wanna make sure that

727

it is something that I'm buying into

and I'm doing it for the right reasons.

728

And the person, and the people I'm

doing it for aren't gonna be an

729

embarrassment or problem for me

and all my other relationships.

730

So, I represent all my constituents.

731

And I want people, if, they have to,

I want 'em to look back on me and I

732

want 'em to be proud that they know me

and help have really good interaction.

733

But, but it's all, it's all in there.

734

Desmond Nicholson: specifically, uh,

what causes are you currently an advocate

735

of, whether it's civic or otherwise?

736

Track 1: I'm a, member of the Colorado

Democratic Committee, and that is the

737

committee that works to get people

elected who believe in certain causes.

738

I, got really interested in that

back during CVID and what was going

739

on in the country politically, and

I had so much time to be involved.

740

And so they asked me to be involved.

741

And so I actually, I, I do that.

742

I sit on the finance committee

of my congressional Congressman,

743

Jason Crow from the sixth District.

744

I.

745

And I'm also a member of, the committee

for, a young man by the name of Joe Nago,

746

who's an up and comer, African American.

747

And he is the first African

American from the state of Colorado

748

to be admitted to the house.

749

And he's the fourth person under Mr.

750

Jeffrey.

751

I'm really proud of what that

young man has done, and I also

752

work with the Secretary of State.

753

As I mentioned, I'm a volunteer with the

Colorado Department of Transportation.

754

the governor appointed me to a five

year term, and it's such an important

755

thing in terms of addressing our climate

issues, addressing our multi-mobile

756

issue in terms of alternative

means of people to get around.

757

I'm learning a lot about it

and hopefully sharing a lot.

758

I also am on the board of what is

called the White House Historical

759

Association, which does all of the

interior in the White House, , for

760

the First Lady and the first family.

761

But above and beyond that, they run

educational programs, about the White

762

House and the history of the White

House and everything that's gone in it.

763

So, the, oh, I have to admit the church.

764

I'm a Baptist and, we're mostly like

Southern Baptist, and so I'm a trustee

765

at the church as well and try and

stay pretty actively involved in that.

766

And I'm also involved with our

Colorado Society of CPAs, basically

767

participating on their diversity,

equity, and inclusion committee.

768

And I also am involved in a technical

committee because there's a big

769

shortage of people of color and

people in general that are coming

770

into the accounting profession.

771

And it's one of the things that

many people don't know about.

772

They have a lot of

misconceptions about it.

773

And so I decided that I would play

a role as CPA to try and help change

774

some of those perceptions by being

more visible and being more involved.

775

Desmond Nicholson: can you share Eula

three actionable takeaways with our

776

listeners, for example, in leadership,

work habits, lessons learned, et cetera.

777

Track 1: I'm a big believer that no

matter what position you're in, that

778

we can always learn from someone

above us and someone below us.

779

So never, ever stop learning,

never stop investing in your own

780

education and your own growth.

781

The other thing is, when I'm running

things and I, am in charge of things, I

782

like to see people who take the attitude

that no job is too small for them.

783

That they're not above any one task

or something that needs to be done.

784

And so they will take on any and

all challenges and, ultimately

785

it's a team sport to me.

786

And so I, I like to see people who,

really buy into the notion that it's

787

not so much about me and the credit.

788

There's always enough credit when

things work out to be shared.

789

we all come up through an organization

and a functional group, and ultimately we

790

may have to manage an entire organization

made up of different functions than

791

the one that was our specialty.

792

And, if you've worked within an

organization and acquired skills about

793

all the different parts, not master them.

794

You know how to at least discuss

and talk to people from different

795

parts of an organization.

796

When you are blessed one day with actually

being in charge, you'll find the people

797

that work for you will have a higher level

of respect than they otherwise would have.

798

Desmond Nicholson: Very well.

799

We move into our final segment.

800

The lightning round bridges to

excellence, inspired leadership

801

in payments and fintech.

802

Desmond Nicholson: I pose a question

and you respond with a single word.

803

Or one sentence, shall we begin?

804

Track 1: All right,

805

Desmond Nicholson: What

does success mean to you?

806

Track 1: happiness.

807

Desmond Nicholson: is the

best advice you ever received?

808

Track 1: Listen

809

Desmond Nicholson: book would you

recommend to our listeners and why?

810

Track 1: management and Machiavelli

It is very much a leadership book

811

that goes back to the earliest ages.

812

And I happen to believe that much of

what we can do as good leaders today

813

aren't new tactics and new techniques,

but they've been around almost forever.

814

Desmond Nicholson: What is your favorite

quote in leadership or otherwise that

815

Track 1: All.

816

Desmond Nicholson: you?

817

Track 1: I'm gonna give you my

favorite quote from Lincoln, and

818

this is one that I try and live by

819

I am not bound to win.

820

But I am bound to be true.

821

I'm not bound to succeed, but I am

bound to live by the light that I have.

822

Make the most of what you do have.

823

Don't worry about what you don't have.

824

I must stand with anybody that stands

right and stand with him while he is right

825

and part with him when he goes wrong.

826

Desmond Nicholson: well.

827

or Raiders,

828

Track 1: I'm a Bronco guy.

829

Even in, in the worst of times.

830

Bronco fan.

831

Desmond Nicholson: is one thing

that has you up right now?

832

Track 1: I'm really fired up about,

what's going on in the world.

833

We started the conversation about

what's going on in Israel right

834

now, and I'm really concerned about

our treatment for each other and

835

our tolerance with each other.

836

I, I'm bothered by all the places where

we have an opportunity to get it right.

837

I'm fired up about, continuing

to make a difference.

838

I have two grandkids now.

839

And to me it matters what

kind of world we leave them

840

Desmond Nicholson: Eula, it's been fun.

841

We've covered a lot today from

your backstory Sharing some golden

842

nuggets along the way the shattering

of the proverbial glass ceilings at

843

two major organizations, Deloitte

and First Data, a trailblazer.

844

Indeed.

845

Now, is there any final

comment before we wrap up?

846

Track 1: I have to say thank you,

Desmond, for seeking me out and giving

847

me a chance to share my story with

people with, this podcast Medium.

848

we're all trailblazers in our own

way and some trails are bigger

849

than other trails, but they're all

important trails for us to go down.

850

Get as far as we can.

851

Do as much as we can, and just remember

that there's always someone coming

852

behind us and we're just making a

path for them that they're gonna

853

make bigger and make better, but

they wouldn't be able to do that if

854

we hadn't gotten the start for them.

855

Desmond Nicholson: Eula, thank

you for being on our show.

856

And to our listeners, thank you for

your time and never forget the more

857

you expect from yourself, more Excel.

858

You've been listening to Bridges

to Excellence podcast, inspired

859

leadership and payments and fintech.

860

Be sure to join us next time for more

conversations with another of your

861

colleagues in payments and fintech.

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Insightful conversations in their

journey to excellence for transcripts

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and other materials covered on the show.

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Visit us at DesmondNicholson.

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com.