Today I'm talking with Lucy Herron, the founder of Sloafer, a women's shoe brand that handmakes ballerina pumps with an all day sneaker comfort sole.

It’s a really powerful episode, as Lucy is incredibly articulate about the importance of valuing your product and yourself. Lucy explains how she has chosen to work with a factory that pays a fair wage, and why she is shunning fast fashion practices. Instead she has built a very successful business model creating limited batches of shoes, which are in demand, and regularly have waiting lists.

I found it really empowering, and if you have ever doubted how you price your products, this is the episode to listen to. 

Listen in to hear Lucy share:

• An introduction to herself and her business (01:29)
• Her inspiration to create Sloafer (01:41)
• The journey from having the idea to getting the shoes made (04:19)
• Creating an in demand product, and minimising waste by having a wait list (06:15)
• The importance of working with a factory that pays a fair wage, and how this affects the price of the shoe (07:10)
• Managing seasonal ranges and restocks (08:46)
• Lessons in creating products in small batches (10:48)
• Communicating with customers on a waitlist (14:36)
• The importance of knowing and charging the value of your product, and avoiding the temptation to do deep discounts (16:04)
• Valuing yourself and your product (18:43)
• The negative impact of fast, cheap fashion (21:26)
• Her experiences seeking investment as a female business owner (23:45)
• Her number one piece of advice for other product creators (29:34)

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Sloafer Website

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Sloafer Instagram

Lucy Herron LinkedIn

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Welcome to the Bring Your Product Idea to Life podcast.

This is the podcast for you if you're getting started selling

products or if you'd like to create your own product to sell.

I'm Vicki Weinberg, a product creation coach and Amazon expert.

Every week I share friendly, practical advice, as well as inspirational

stories from small businesses.

Let's get started.

I am speaking with Lucy Herron, the founder of Sloafer is a women shoe

brand that hand makes ballerina pumps with an all day sneaker comfort soul.

So I had a really great conversation with Lucy.

We talked obviously a lot about her products, but one of the most fascinating

things we spoke about, for me anyway, was about the value of your products.

Lucy talks about the fact that her shoes are very, very expensive and she

is not apologetic about that and she charges for them what they're worth.

She's really transparent about her pricing, how much it costs

to actually have her shoes made.

Um, they're all ethically produced.

And yeah, I think this was a really, for me, it was really fascinating and

quite empowering actually to hear Lucy talk so confidently about her price

point, um, which I say is higher than a lot of the products that I speak about.

And yeah, I think you're going to find this hopefully really

interesting and really inspiring too.

So I would love now to introduce you to Lucy.

So, hi Lucy.

Thank you so much for being here.

Thank you.

So can we start with you, please give an introduction to yourself,

your business, and what you sell?

Yeah.

So I'm Lucy Herron and I'm the co-founder of Sloafer.

Um, and my husband and I designed a ballet shoe, uh, slash sneaker,

and we sell online at sloafer.

com.

Amazing.

So let's start with what inspired you to create Sloafer?

Because I'd say a ballet crossed with a sneaker is pretty unique, isn't it?

It is, and that's the reason we started it.

Um, I feel like I'm kind of being dragged out of dragons den by security, shouting.

We have a U S P.

There's no one like us, but we are literally the only ballerina pump

that is a hybrid with a sneaker.

So a lot of ballet pumps try and be comfortable, but they, they aren't.

They kind of get one element, right.

They get the elegance right, but not the comfort.

And that's why we started the company because I have always worn ballet pumps.

I've always kind of gone down like the cheap ballet pump road and you can

kind of feel the floor through them.

And I kind of knew they weren't comfy, but I, I liked them, so I, I probably suffered

for years, um, with uncomfortable shoes.

And then I met my husband and he, um, loves trainers.

He's got so many trainers and we were going on a weekend break and

he was like, why can't you just pack properly and take a pair of

trainers for walking around all day?

Um, and at that point I was actually pregnant.

And, um, he was like, this is ridiculous.

You're going to be really uncomfortable.

And I was like, no, I'll be fine.

I'll be fine, I'll be fine.

And obviously I was really uncomfortable.

And so we got back and he, for my birthday, um, he gave me this pair

of shoes and they were a ballet pump with a so-called sneak and soul.

But there were so many things wrong with them.

They were really ugly and I felt really awful, but I hated those shoes.

Like, and it's funny, we just have a laugh about it now because we, we've

now got a company, but they were really ugly and they were really uncomfortable

and they were really expensive as well.

So I was like, wow, it's not just cheap shoes that hurt, it's

also like the expensive ones.

And so we saw a genuine gap in the market because we couldn't

find anything like it out there.

And then fast forward to being pregnant the second time, I was also back in

Italy, but this time wearing my Sloafers and I was super, super comfortable

because they've got, um, a sneaker soul.

So you, you look great and you feel comfortable all day.

That's amazing and I can definitely see the need for that because

I used to wear ballet pumps all the time, and then I got to, I can't remember

whether it was pregnancy or a certain age when I was just like, no, I'm going to

wear trainers because as much as I love how they look, it's just not comfy when

you are on your feet for a lot of time, you know, like those cardboard thin souls.

It's just, yeah.

They don't do really good.

Exactly.

So I can definitely see like, because trainers aren't

always smart enough and there there are those occasions where you're like,

oh, you know, I want to would be comfy, but my trainers won't quite cut it.

So I think this is just such an amazing idea.

Thank you.

So what happened?

So you had the idea of, you know, creating them.

So talk us through a little bit, if you don't mind, about what happened then.

So how you got from this idea, and it sounds like you had really clear vision

to actually having a finished product.

That's the problem.

You have really clear vision and it's really difficult trying to explain it,

but also even when you think you've explained it and you get a prototype back

and you're like, oh no, no, no, no, no.

That's really not what I meant.

And so we went on LinkedIn.

We found a footwear agent in Portugal and we didn't do like

a massive amount of research.

I've got to be completely honest.

We just kind of dived in and obviously that meant that we made loads of mistakes

and learned fast, but that's probably also quite a good thing in business.

Um, so we found an agent and we sent her some drawings and just said, look,

this is what we want them to be like.

Um, she sent a prototype back and at that point I was crushed.

I was like, I hate it.

I don't want to.

I just, it's horrible.

I hate it.

And, uh, my husband was like, get on with it.

We've got to just improve it and make it better.

And so we bend off that agent because she just said, oh, you, it can't be done.

It can't be done.

Everything was no.

And I was kind of happy to say no for an answer because I was like,

oh, I just think it's a stupid idea.

And I kind of got the fear about starting a business and felt like a fraud.

And my husband was like, no, no, no, let's keep going.

Um, and so yeah, we found another factory in Spain, um, and we got an amazing shoe.

Kind of four or five or attempts later, I was holding this shoe in

my hands and I was like, oh, wow.

Like, whoa, this, this is weird now because this is exactly what we wanted.

So there was a lot of going back and.

And then we found, um, a place that can make our shoes.

And then kind of the rest is history really.

We did actually move factory again, um, to get a better price point and

someone that could produce smaller quantities because obviously we don't

want to be kind of like mass produced and, you know, thousands and thousands

and thousands of, of the same pair.

The good thing about Sloafer is they're handmade and we do batches

and we have a massive waiting list and there's a lot demand.

And so that's kind of, we wanted to be, um, a bit less wasteful

and we don't have like seasons.

We don't have end season sales.

Our shoes are our shoes and our shoes, and you get them or you don't get them.

Um, and so now it's just like a creative process.

So the, the bulk of the shoe is done.

We're always looking for ways to kind of tweak it and make it a

little more, you know, a little bit more comfortable, a little bit more

flexible, but we're really happy with, um, the feel of it and the look of it.

And so, yeah, now it just comes down to having a bit of fun with, um,

leathers and animal prints and neons and just putting together, um, what

you see as the finished product.

That sounds amazing and I, I really like what you said

about the way you produce themselves.

So are they, so they, they're not made to order, they're

small batches, is that right?

Yeah.

So you're not making them as people order them,

but that sounds really good.

So I guess there's a lot less waste involved.

Yeah, there is.

I mean, look, it's, it's a really, really expensive business to, to be in.

It's very expensive on the manufacturing side because we work

with factories that pay a fair wage.

And so I think if you're going to spend seven pounds on a pair of pumps you know

that someone is being exploited somewhere.

And so yes, our shoes are expensive.

There's no way of of getting around that, but they're handmade and

they're really comfortable and they last for a really, really long time.

So they are an investment piece.

Obviously in recognition of the fact that they are an investment piece, we

do some really solid, cool colours.

So for a look, people, they're like, oh wow, I love the neon ones.

They're so bright, they're so amazing.

But if you're going to spend nearly 200 pounds on a pair of shoes, I

also understand why you're like, I can't wear that every day.

So you've got to wear a blush colour or a black or a navy.

And so we have a lot of people who wear our shoes every day to work because

they're kind of sensible, quote unquote.

Then we also have people who are like, oh my God, I love glitter and

sparkle and neon and animal print.

And so yeah, we sell to loads of different people.

It's like, it's almost like you can kind of see like people's

personalities coming across with the shoes that they pick, because we've

got something to, to suit everyone.

But yeah, we produce about 30 at a time, so I've.

You know, in some styles I've, I've got 30, and then in some styles I've got, you

know, next to nothing and they sell out.

And I think people are kind of used to the way we work now.

So as soon as we announce we've got new stock coming in, I sell out pretty much

within 48 hours because people have been waiting for them for, for so long.

So yeah, it's, that's, that's kind of how we work.

And does that mean that, so does every color or style,

is every color or style available once or is it more like, okay, now

I've got this one in stock and then in a few weeks you have another one?

Is that how it works?

Yeah, so we do have full restock at the end of our season.

So typically people don't really buy kind of October, November,

December, January, February.

And then obviously, um, people start thinking about the spring, don't they?

They're so fed up with the winter that by March, even though it's still a little

bit cold, they're like, you know what?

Let's just start thinking about the summer.

So we do a full restock so that when we start selling again, you know, and we're

really busy in the spring, we've got every style, every colour, um, we've just

introduced a wide fit in some of our shoes and obviously, Really took us by surprise.

Um, we only had 10 and I sold eight on the first day.

So I was like, oh god, I should have got some more.

Um, so we're always trying to like expand but be sensible about it.

So yeah, I'm all stocked up and ready to go for the spring season now.

That's amazing.

So I'm just, I love.

That's so interesting.

I've never spoken to anyone who does it like that.

So I guess over the winter months, is it just a case of you have what

you have, so if someone went on your website in December, you have what

you have in December, and then if they want something specific, they

may have to wait until you restock?

So we we're fully, we're fully stocked.

So we aim to be fully stocked by the time things quieten down.

So I guess our off season, you could say is kind of from October the first.

It's quite funny.

You can see it literally go off a cliff because people are, you

know, thinking about winter boots and big socks and trainers doing

the school run and stuff like that.

So actually December's a great time to buy because I've got everything.

But if you come to me in May and you're like, oh, I'm looking for a really

delicate blush coloured shoe this spring, I'm like, sorry, I probably sold out.

Um, yeah, we we're very, very busy from about March.

Okay, so I misunderstood.

I thought you were fully stocked in March, but that makes sense.

So actually if someone wants something specific, now is a really great time

to go and have a look, isn't it?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, that is really interesting.

And I guess the other thing with the small batches is it gives you a chance

to see what sells and what doesn't.

Yeah.

To be honest, like we've made , we've made a few bad choices, and yeah,

you, you see the ones that fly off the shelves and you see the ones that don't.

And I think the temptation is to be like, oh God, I better get them on sale.

Some money's better than no money.

Uh, You know, we, we can't afford to do that.

Our profit margins are really slim and we are not, we're not going to do that.

So we do have some colours that do much better than others.

But yeah, there seems to be like a, it is generally, most styles

appeal because, you know, as I said earlier, we've got some really basic

sort of wardrobe staples that will last forever and go with everything.

And then we've got some really cool kind of neon animal

print ones, sparkles, glitter.

So there's kind of something that suits everyone.

So it's always quite interesting to, to see what happens when my phone like, does

the cherching and I look and I'm like, oh, I wonder what they're going to go for.

It's, it's always quite interesting seeing what people.

Yeah, that is.

And are you tempted, the ones that do sell out time after time, are you

tempted to order more of those or are you sticking to the small batches for now?

Yeah, well we still stick to small batches, um, because

we're quite a fast cash flow business, and so we have a high turnover.

But obviously as you can imagine, our manufacturing costs are high.

Our marketing costs are high.

We're always getting, you know, hit with invoices, and it can be a bit scary in

our downtime as well because obviously we, we don't have the money coming

in, but we've got the money going out.

So we do have kind of like hero pieces, which are the shoes that

just sell out the whole time.

But we have to be careful not to let them cannibalize the whole of the range.

And so I think what we find is, Where I might produce, you know, 30 to 50,

um, of, of the black in the Navy, I'll only produce 30 of like the animal

print with neon because I know that I could produce a hundred and I would

still sell out, but then everything else will be left on the shelf.

So it is just kind of, it, it's just trying to keep.

You know, the idea that we've got what we've got when they're gone, they're gone.

And also, like with leather, you can, it can go out of stock really quickly

because it's, it's a natural product.

And so no two sort of sheets of leather are going to be the same.

And so you can look and say, oh, I love that Leo Print.

And I love that Dalmatian print.

And actually the suppier may just suddenly discontinue it, and

then we'll get another leopard.

But it'll be completely different.

And obviously you roll out a massive piece of leather that is like metres

and metres and metres, you know, large.

But then when it's actually on a shoe, particularly a little

sort of a smaller sized shoe, you are like, wow, is that the same.

It looks really, really different.

And so, the shoes can always end up looking slightly different.

And so yeah, we do kind of 30 here, 30 there, um, and see what happens.

And the, the frustration is, I got some samples back actually the other day.

And I thought they were going to be amazing and I approved the leather and

I was like, this is going to be lovely, perfect for spring, not losing any time.

And then it arrived and I was like, ah, looks a little bit too dark.

I didn't want it to be pink pink.

I wanted it to be neutral.

But you go from, you scaled down and once it's on the shoe, it

ends up looking really different.

So yeah, I've got to tweak that and, and find a, a slightly

lighter coloured leather, so it will possibly be ready for spring.

I'm kind of ready when I'm ready.

That's, that's what I've realized, that there, there are so many variables

that you can't really stress about it.

And I think the good thing is we don't have like the new season coming soon.

Because if I said that, I'd then have to go, sorry, we're

going to be three weeks late.

So we are very kind of relaxed about things.

They happen when they have been.

That's a really good, that's a really good

attitude to have, I think.

But do you struggle to, or to communicate this to customers?

Because for customers this is a different way of shopping, isn't it?

That they're small batches.

When you have what you have, when it's gone, it's gone.

Um, how do you get that message across?

To your customers?

I'm just really honest.

I tell them like I've just told you, um, you know, we have like a waiting list

function, so someone will say, can you email me when this is back in stock.

And I'll email them and say, sorry it's not coming back

until the end of next year.

And they're like, oh wow, okay.

So then typically they'll buy something else and then when I email

them, they're in such a rush because a lot of our shoes do stick in your

head because they're quite vibrant.

And so I sit back, it's quite funny, I love it when I've got a restock of like

my really bright ones and I'll sit back and I think the record, I sent out an

email to everyone who said, they're here and my phone pinged three minutes later.

And when we did a restock of the Dalmatian with the neon, I sold a

pair every three minutes for an hour.

And I was screaming, excited.

It was so funny.

It was just like dinging, dinging.

And then I sold them all.

So I was like, oh God, maybe I should have got some more.

But then obviously that goes back to what I was saying, that you know,

we're never going to have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds for all

of the reasons that I've given.

I think that's nicer though, in a way.

Because it also kind of makes it not, I don't want to use the word

exclusive, that's not the right word, but it's, it's kind of nice that

it's something that, it's something like a special purchase, isn't it?

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's a, it definitely is.

And I'm not, yeah.

I'm never going to be flipent and say, oh no, it's an every day thing.

It's not an every day thing.

They're nearly 200 pounds.

Is this something that you have to think about?

They're well made.

They're made by people who are paid properly.

And they are made to last, like they're really, really, really good quality.

And it's funny because I think my sort of reluctance was, I guess

coming at this, I was always quite cautious about how I priced stuff.

Because I was like, no, no, no, you, you can't ask people to spend that much money.

But then we did loads of research and we were like, there are

companies out there that are charging 500 pounds for a pair of pumps.

And I can tell you now, they are not as well made and you can

still feel the floor through them.

So yeah, it has taken a little while.

I'm not, by my nature, I don't have pound signs ringing, and so my temptation was to

try and price them lower, but we couldn't, we could, we couldn't make a profit.

We couldn't keep up.

We couldn't produce if I set the price too low.

And so I think it is just this constant argument.

It's like, are they expensive or are they overpriced?

And what I can say is they're not overpriced because I offer a breakdown.

I've done it when people have kind of been a little bit picky, you know, like kind

of keyboard warriors and they see our ads and they're like, blah, blah, blah, blah.

I can get these for three pounds in prime market.

And it's like, okay, go on then.

Because you know, I can't, I can't put my energy into like

changing hearts and minds.

Like if you want to shop in prime market, that's fine.

I'm not going to be preachy about it, but here's my breakdown.

Here's what the leather costs, here's what the manufacturing costs, and

then the, the choice is yours really.

But we're, we're really upfront about everything, about costs, about the

fact that we don't produce a lot, about the fact that you might love

these shoes, but no, sorry, I'm not going to get them for nine months.

Yeah.

That's kind of, that's kind of how, how we approach it.

I really like that because I think there's such a temptation

to either, underprice your products because you're scared of charging too

much or almost be apologetic about it.

Like, I'm really sorry that you know that I'm charging you this, but I really love

the fact that you can stand behind your pricing and yet because you know your

numbers and you're really transparent about it, I really love that because

it, it, it, it's really scary asking someone to pay you for anything, isn't it?

And I think whether you set a product or a service, there's always a temptation

to go there, a little bit cheaper just to make the other person feel

a bit better, but yeah, I've, I've, hopefully, I really hope people find

that inspiring what you've just said, Lucy, because you know what your products

are worth, and it doesn't sound like you've second guessed yourself at all.

You've kind of gone, okay, this is what I spend, and obviously you are a business.

You have to make a profit.

Um, I really like that.

Thank you.

I mean, it comes from years of underpricing, like prior to Sloafer.

It comes of like almost years of underpricing myself because I've

run my own sort of my own thing.

It's a a not-for-profit and I remember, you know, going and

giving talks in Manchester because it would be great exposure.

I remember spending like a hundred pounds on a train ticket and standing

there and talking to seven people for an hour and that's like my whole day gone.

My money gone and I'm like, I've got nothing from it.

And I got nothing from it.

And actually my husband kept saying, you've got to say no more.

And I was like, I can't.

I can't.

I can't.

I can't.

And so I've, I've suggested everything for years and it's so nice.

Just going, no, doesn't suit me.

No.

Not doing it.

Not doing it.

And I think that's the headspace you've got to get yourself

into for pricing stuff.

Because at one stage I was running one charity, which is like my

not-for-profit that can do 15 years.

And getting paid in exposure, which I kind of like learned my lesson

eventually, but at one stage we were running like a, a not-for-profit

for people who like nice shoes.

And we were like, this is insane.

And what we found is that when we increased the prices massively,

but it wasn't that we increased it massively for no reason.

We put the prices up to where they should be.

We didn't lose any customers, we just got different customers.

It's not about underpricing stuff because someone will always buy your shoes.

You've just got to find the right people.

And so it there, there's been a lot of, a lot of kind of work

to get my own head around this.

Behind the scenes, so I sound like I'm totally okay about it, but this has

been like a long time in the making and it's just realizing that, you know,

people out there will spend thousands of pounds on the most ridiculous of things.

So if you're charging nearly 200 pounds for a pair of hand-made shoes,

yeah, they're not for people that want 10 pound fast fashion, but

they're also, I've had loads of people going, oh, they're quite affordable.

And I'm like, ha.

Yes.

Ok.

And yeah.

So there, there are so many people out there.

You just got to find the right people for your price point.

That.

Yeah, I think you're right.

And I think a lot of us do get there eventually.

It's just a shame we spend all those years or months or whatever it is,

not making money in the process.

Because I've definitely done it.

I've definitely, with services I've offered underpriced because

I've just been a little bit scared of asking for more money.

And I think there's, it's just like knowing the value of you yourself and for

you knowing the value of your product.

And I think as people who are looking for ethically made products,

um, are happy to pay a bit more.

And I, I guess that's probably at least some of your customer bases,

people who want to shop ethically because, and they know that shopping

ethically means people are being treated well, paid well, you're therefore

going to pay more for that product.

Yeah, definitely.

Definitely.

I mean, i.

I've definitely bought into the whole, oh, I need a new top and I'll just

buy one from somewhere horrific, and I won't name them, you know, in my

twenties and I guess early thirties.

And I literally read one book and it completely changed sort of my attitude.

It was, um, consumed by AliBaba and I kind of thought, oh my God.

So suddenly realized that at the age of 40, which is like embarrassingly

late, I just kind of realized like you only ever see the face of it.

You just go into a shop and buy what you want and you don't

realize what's going on behind the scenes and I know what you mean.

Because now I'm like, oh, I could do with a couple of, you know, couple of

white t-shirts and you're like, oh, they're really great but they're five

pounds from, you know, X, Y, and Z.

And you think, oh, okay.

Oh, right now I, now I get why it's five pounds.

And I know that sounds like, oh, how can you be so stupid?

How can you be so naive?

But I honestly think people just, you are busy, you don't

really think about everything.

But once your eyes have been open to it, then I think it does change.

So I can, I can honestly say, I really consciously have, have not,

I've, I've avoided a whole load of shops and I now question like, do

I really, really, really need this?

And even if I'm like, oh, I don't need it, but I want it, I still pick my, my want,

quote unquote from a, a better place.

So, yeah, I know, I know that sounds a bit, I know like if I'd heard

someone say that to you two, three years ago, I'd be like, oh, at you.

But you know, it just, it's just that wisdom, I guess, from, you

know, and Instagram's great because you have access to so many people in

the fashion world that can help you make the right sort of decisions.

And obviously that's something that we try to kind of like implement

in our, in our business now.

That's great.

Thank you.

And I think you're right.

I'm, I'm exactly the same, especially in terms of do I actually need this or

am I just being brought into the whole consumerism thing of we need more stuff.

And I do think that, I do think things are going in that direction, but I think

like you, I was, yeah, probably late thirties, 40 before I kind of got there.

And it's a shame, you know, it took so long.

But I think things are definitely going the right direction.

Yeah, I think so.

Um, I'm really conscious of time, but there's one more thing I'd

really like to touch on, if that's okay Lucy, which is, um, investment and seeking

investment and particularly seeking investment as a female business owner.

I had, I did a, um, an episode quite a while ago now all about seeking investment

and I know that for women it can be more challenging than it is for men.

We obviously haven't got loads of time to talk about this, but I'd

love to just know a little bit about your experience if that's okay?

My experience has been awful.

I've sat, uh, at my kitchen table with absolute snake oil merchants, and I'm

sorry to say it, but it's just there is a certain type of male investor and, um,

before anyone like beats me around the head with it, yes, I know not all men,

not all investors, but um, you know, there's a certain type, and I've had my

business plan ripped up in front of me.

I've had them draw lines through it.

I've had them tell me that I shouldn't be online and that I should open a shop on

Bond Street, which I just, I, I just had to shut off and glaze over and just smile

and nod and just wait for him to finish and, and kind of get out of my house.

Um, I've had people telling me that, um, my products are mediocre, uh, and that

my business plan is weak, all with the intention of undervaluing my company so

that they can buy 90% of it for 10 grand and make me feel like I'm still involved

and pull the rug from underneath me.

So I've had two really bad experiences with would be male investors, and

I made a vow, never, ever to work with male investors again, unless we

can have a conversation where I can get to the end of my sentence before

they start banging on the table and telling me I'm wrong, and I'm more

than happy with everything I've set up.

I'm more than happy to defer to people who know more than me.

But I find that in this business, when you're looking for investment,

you attract a certain type.

They don't want to give you any credit.

They don't want to value you because they want a bargain and they want to take over.

And I've kind of had enough of being bulldozed over.

So actually we are in communication with, um, having said everything I've said a

male investor, but my bad experiences have made me really, really forthright

and I'm like, I have a business plan.

I will be presenting it.

I will take questions at the end, and I'm so not like that.

I'm, I'm so not like that, but I've got really good at shutting down

all of the objections that people have because I know it's a game.

I know it's a game, and I know they're trying to get my

company for next to nothing.

And that's not happening because we've put our savings into it.

We've put so much of ourselves into it.

I'm damned if I'm going to get into bed with the wrong person.

I'd rather have no company at all.

So yeah, I definitely think women are the way forward because I think

we are naturally less aggressive.

And that's not to say that we are not assertive.

That's not to say that we are not good at what we do.

I just feel like there's a slightly better approach when you speak to women.

And yes, there are some great men out there and there are

some awful women out there.

And that's not the, the purpose of the conversation, but I generally find

you feel like you are working with a colleague, with a team member when

you speak to a female investor and they want to get to know you, they

want to get to know the business.

Whereas with the men that I've spoken to, um, I've just been left with a

really sort of bad impression, but with all bad experiences, it's taught

me a lot and so I'm going into every conversation I have now with my eyes

wide open, and I think you've just got to kind of not be afraid of saying no.

So, yeah, you know, if, if we can't get investment on good terms,

then we will spin it off and we will go for attempt number four.

But I think you just, you just can't be bulldozed.

And I think, you know, stereotypes kind of there for a reason.

So I'm always quite mindful.

If a male investor comes to me now, because I have found from my experience

that, you know, there's, there's a fairly aggressive approach and that isn't for me.

So yeah fingers crossed.

Yeah.

I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for you.

I'm sorry.

Sorry you've had such bad experiences and I hope you didn't mind sharing that.

I just think it's good not to put anybody off because I think what's

really reassuring is you're saying that despite having had some bad experiences,

you're still looking for investment.

Yeah.

And it sounds like you just, you know, you're really clear that

it needs to be a certain way on your terms, and I do think that's good for

people to hear because I think investments scary as it is, but it's just, I think

what I hope people take from this is what you said about just knowing your

worth and standing your ground and not going for the first thing that someone

offers you just because you're flattered that you know they've, they've asked.

Yeah.

And just a theme I've got from this whole thing speaking to you,

Lucy, is you really seem to know your worth, your product's worth.

And I think that, I think that's really inspiring actually.

Thank you.

No, it's been really good to, to chat about it and yeah, I'm always

happy to kind of share information and be a sounding board, like

we've got so much stuff wrong.

Um, I almost think it's a, it's a waste not to share it.

So if I can make my balls ups and, and share them, then you know, hopefully

other people will, will learn from that.

I'm definitely better to learn from, in, in as much as all the

stuff I've got wrong, I'm still working on getting everything right.

But, um, yeah, I think we need to kind of support each other and look out for

each other and not be so, you know, guarded with all our information.

There's stuff that you need to keep close to your chest, but I think

it's so much better to just kind of be collaborative and, and helpful.

So yeah, that's, that's kind of my, my offer going forward.

If anyone needs to talk about it, I'm, I'm just a phone call away.

Oh, that's amazing.

Thank you so much.

Um, yeah, and I, I'm think you will get taken up on that, I'm sure.

Um, so I'm going looking at time.

One more minute.

I've got one final question, and actually, based on what you've just said, I think

this tied in beautifully, is what is the number one piece of advice you'd like

to give to other people listening today?

What's the one thing you want people to know?

Always trying to do everything yourself first.

Don't put yourself in the bin and pay someone to do something.

Try your social media.

Try your content, try your photography, try designing stuff, because we spent so

much money on other people doing stuff that I look back and I'm like, oh my

God, I so could have done that myself.

Try everything yourself before you pay someone else to do it.

That makes sense.

Thank you.

I also think it makes sense because once you are looking for someone else to do

it, you can't even know what you want.

So I've got a good example for me would be this podcast, I'm going

to try and outsource the editing, but because I've done it myself for

three years, I know how it should be.

I know how long it should take.

All of those little things that actually when if you just outsource from the start.

And I'm a big fan of outsourcing, by the way.

Yeah.

I think a big problem is you just don't know how things should be.

Could be.

Um.

You should be paying how long a job should take.

So I think having all of that data yourself is so useful.

Exactly.

Exactly.

That's brilliant.

Thank you so much, Lucy.

So I'm going to link to your website in the show notes so people can

go and take a look at the shoes.

Thank you.

I really hope, uh, everyone likes our shoes.

And if you got any questions about, um, what we've got in stock or sizing

questions, just yeah, ping me an email.

Oh, thank you so much.

Thank you.

It's really good to speak to you.

Thank you so much for listening right to the end of this episode.

Do remember that you can get the full back catalogue and lots of free resources

on my website, vicki weinberg.com.

Please do remember to rate and review this episode if you've enjoyed it,

and also share it with a friend who you think might find it useful.