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How to Get a Return on Life, Not Just Money with Justin Krane Ep. 75
Episode 7521st June 2022 • Fascinating Entrepreneurs • Natasha Miller
00:00:00 00:33:15

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Justin Krane, a CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER (TM) professional, is the founder of Krane Financial Solutions. Known for his savvy, holistic approach to financial planning, he advises his clients on how to unite their business and personal money with their lives.

Justin works with his clients to create purpose driven financial plans – aiming for a “return on life.”  He manages his clients’ investment portfolios for their long term goals such as retirement.

Justin is the author of the book, Money. You Got This.  It’s a book about everyday crazy funny life experiences that we all have – with lessons for all of us.

Justin received his Certified Investment Management Analyst SM (CIMA®) designation from Investment Management Consultants Association and in conjunction with The Wharton School of Business at the University of Pennsylvania.

He is married and lives with his wife and three children in Calabasas, California. Justin is an accomplished athlete and was a former junior ranked tennis player in Los Angeles. He loves to cook, travel, speak Italian, and spend time with his family.

Where to Find Justin Krane

Website: kranefinancialsolutions.com

SPONSOR

This episode is sponsored by Entire Productions- Creating events (both in-person and virtual) that don't suck! and Entire Productions Marketing- carefully curated premium gifting and branded promo items. 

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Transcripts

Justin Krane:

You wanna spend two months in Italy and live on a Villa, but then

Justin Krane:

all of a sudden you wanna be philanthropic and you wanna donate some money each year.

Justin Krane:

Can you do that?

Justin Krane:

I don't know.

Justin Krane:

These variables and these conversations, they need to go

Justin Krane:

on a spreadsheet with software.

Justin Krane:

Yeah.

Justin Krane:

Period.

Justin Krane:

End of story.

Justin Krane:

Right?

Justin Krane:

Iterate it.

Justin Krane:

Look at scenarios.

Justin Krane:

Get your head out of the sand, get a little bit more clarity, have that

Justin Krane:

glass of wine and figure it out.

Natasha Miller:

Welcome to FASCINATING ENTREPRENEURS.

Natasha Miller:

How do people end up becoming an entrepreneur?

Natasha Miller:

How do they scale and grow their businesses?

Natasha Miller:

How do they plan for profit?

Natasha Miller:

Are they in it for life or are they building to exit these and a myriad

Natasha Miller:

of other topics will be discussed to pull back the veil on the wizardry of

Natasha Miller:

successful and FASCINATING ENTREPRENEURS.

Natasha Miller:

My book relentless is now available, everywhere books can be bought online,

Natasha Miller:

including Amazon and BarnesandNoble.com.

Natasha Miller:

Try your local indie bookstore too.

Natasha Miller:

And if they don't have it, they can order it.

Natasha Miller:

Just ask them the reviews are streaming in.

Natasha Miller:

And I'm so thankful for the positive feedback, as well as

Natasha Miller:

hearing from people that my memoir has impacted them positively.

Natasha Miller:

It is not enough to be resilient.

Natasha Miller:

You have to be relentless.

Natasha Miller:

You can go to theRelentlessBook.com for more information.

Natasha Miller:

Thank you so much.

Natasha Miller:

Justin Krane is a certified financial planner in the Los Angeles area.

Natasha Miller:

And is the founder of Krane Financial Solutions.

Natasha Miller:

He's known for his savvy holistic approach to financial planning and advises his

Natasha Miller:

clients on how to unite their business and personal money with their lives.

Natasha Miller:

We talk about the number one mistake he sees entrepreneurs make in their planning.

Natasha Miller:

If he's focused on cryptocurrency and his unique strategy for growth,

Natasha Miller:

now let's get right into it.

Justin Krane:

I always knew that I'd be an entrepreneur.

Justin Krane:

I didn't always know that I'd be a financial advisor.

Justin Krane:

I knew I would be in with investments doing something, but I didn't know that

Justin Krane:

I'd be managing other people's money.

Natasha Miller:

Interesting, how do you feel about managing other people's money?

Justin Krane:

Fine.

Justin Krane:

I love it.

Justin Krane:

It takes the burden off of them, puts a little bit of the responsibility on

Justin Krane:

me and it allows me to be their rock.

Justin Krane:

You know, just someone who can hold the space of financial

Justin Krane:

responsibility and also accountability.

Natasha Miller:

How many clients does your firm have this year?

Justin Krane:

1 million dollars.

Natasha Miller:

More like 1 billion.

Natasha Miller:

I hope.

Justin Krane:

Yeah.

Justin Krane:

No, no.

Justin Krane:

175 households.

Natasha Miller:

Okay.

Natasha Miller:

Interesting.

Justin Krane:

Yes.

Natasha Miller:

I don't know much about your world.

Natasha Miller:

I have a wealth advisor.

Natasha Miller:

You can tell me, you can tell the audience, they have 75

Natasha Miller:

families at a billion dollars.

Justin Krane:

Wow.

Natasha Miller:

Is that that okay?

Justin Krane:

That's great.

Justin Krane:

That's amazing.

Natasha Miller:

That's all what I need to know.

Justin Krane:

Yeah.

Natasha Miller:

This is in the San Francisco bay area, so.

Natasha Miller:

What do you think is the number one mistake you see for entrepreneurs?

Natasha Miller:

What are they making a mistake in planning for their finances and retirement?

Natasha Miller:

I know it's all tied up.

Natasha Miller:

Yeah, but what do you go?

Natasha Miller:

"Ugh."

Justin Krane:

I think it's a combination of being reactive, not proactive with

Justin Krane:

money and they don't have the clarity.

Justin Krane:

And they're guessing with money both on their personal and business side.

Justin Krane:

So if you don't have clarity, how can you be proactive if you don't

Justin Krane:

even know what you're looking.

Justin Krane:

You're more putting out fires and dealing with a tax payment or a retirement

Justin Krane:

contribution or some mortgage you have to pay or payroll, then you're guessing.

Justin Krane:

But if you kinda knew more about what was going on and were committed

Justin Krane:

to looking forward and being like, Hmm, where do I wanna be in a year?

Justin Krane:

And what am I gonna do to make that happen?

Justin Krane:

That's I think the hardest thing for entrepreneurs, because we

Justin Krane:

don't get paid every two weeks, like someone who works at GE.

Natasha Miller:

Well, I mean, I get paid every two weeks.

Justin Krane:

Yes.

Justin Krane:

But a lot of entrepreneurs, they might take a salary from

Justin Krane:

their business, but primarily.

Justin Krane:

A lot of entrepreneurs, income isn't streamlined and smooth.

Justin Krane:

It could be lumpy or all over the place or up or down, or who knows what?

Natasha Miller:

And do you suggest to entrepreneurs to take a very

Natasha Miller:

consistent high paying salary?

Natasha Miller:

Like they are a CEO of another company so that all these

Natasha Miller:

things are remedied the lump?

Justin Krane:

Yeah.

Justin Krane:

I think a salary is important because it changes the narrative that the

Justin Krane:

business is serving your financial life.

Justin Krane:

Your personal financial life is not serving the business.

Justin Krane:

So if you're on payroll, that's a good thing.

Justin Krane:

You're paying yourself first and you need to set aside the money to do that.

Justin Krane:

And then you're operating with what's left.

Justin Krane:

Rather than hoping you have enough to pay yourself?

Natasha Miller:

What would you say to the entrepreneur who pays themselves?

Natasha Miller:

Let's say $50,000 a year because they don't want to put the rest

Natasha Miller:

of what they could be making.

Natasha Miller:

Let's say they really should be making 150 or 200,000.

Natasha Miller:

They don't want it to go into social security and all that stuff.

Justin Krane:

So the question is like for someone who's running a business,

Justin Krane:

if they're not paying themselves a high enough salary and they're playing

Justin Krane:

the game of, oh, I don't wanna pay payroll taxes and stuff like that.

Justin Krane:

That's, okay so, I'm gonna say, I don't know, but I'm gonna say what

Justin Krane:

I really think they should do.

Justin Krane:

Because it's a question that really a CPA should answer because a lot of

Justin Krane:

entrepreneurs will pay themselves a large payroll and do the tax withholding

Justin Krane:

from that payroll to satisfy the withholding for the entire year.

Justin Krane:

Cause if you do payroll, it says if you paid it streamlined throughout the

Justin Krane:

whole year, but if you do estimated tax payments with a small payroll, you have

Justin Krane:

to make sure that you're committed to making those estimated tax payments.

Justin Krane:

But generally entrepreneurs.

Justin Krane:

If you're running an established business, you need to get the payroll high enough.

Justin Krane:

So you can maximize your retirement contributions.

Natasha Miller:

Right.

Justin Krane:

And not have to give it all to, I don't wanna say not

Justin Krane:

to your employees, but you want it to be a fair mix and you wanna

Justin Krane:

be able to benefit from that.

Justin Krane:

And if you have a small salary, you can't.

Natasha Miller:

Do you work with your clients on both their business?

Natasha Miller:

Finances and planning and holding back and investments and their personal

Natasha Miller:

are really just on their personal.

Justin Krane:

Yeah.

Justin Krane:

So I'd say about 70% of my clients, I will just do their personal 30%.

Justin Krane:

I will do business and personal, the reason why is, is I'm sure you've

Justin Krane:

hit this with someone on your show.

Justin Krane:

And just as an entrepreneur, you have to have a scalable business.

Justin Krane:

If your business isn't scalable, then it's gonna be very, very hard to

Justin Krane:

have a good work life balance to be able to put money away for yourself.

Justin Krane:

So if I was involved in a hundred people's business and money,

Justin Krane:

finances, I , I mean, I could do that.

Justin Krane:

There's not enough time of the day.

Justin Krane:

So I go a third,

Natasha Miller:

You have a team, correct?

Natasha Miller:

Or

Natasha Miller:

- Justin Krane: So I have people, I

Natasha Miller:

made the decision and it's always a decision I think about and talk about

Natasha Miller:

both with people that coach me and advise me and my staff is what kind

Natasha Miller:

of business model do I want to have?

Natasha Miller:

You know, like a law firm can have 20 partners and 50 paralegals and

Natasha Miller:

the partners manage the paralegals and they play that game of what do

Natasha Miller:

they bill out and what do they pay?

Natasha Miller:

And blah, blah, blah.

Natasha Miller:

I've made the decision that I don't want, that I don't want to have to

Natasha Miller:

manage three other financial advisors.

Natasha Miller:

I just don't so more the work falls onto my plate.

Natasha Miller:

I'm okay with it.

Natasha Miller:

But what my challenge is, is how can I create the right support and structure

Natasha Miller:

for me so that I can continue to grow.

Natasha Miller:

Right.

Justin Krane:

And that's like, I'm an open book.

Justin Krane:

I mean, like, that's my thing right now.

Justin Krane:

That's what I'm working on.

Natasha Miller:

Yeah.

Justin Krane:

Creating a better support system.

Natasha Miller:

That's something to consider because we are in EO together.

Natasha Miller:

And there's a lot of talk about scaling and growth.

Natasha Miller:

And I was just at a program where they're trying to get all of us to a billion

Natasha Miller:

dollars in that's what the MIT is for.

Natasha Miller:

I don't want a billion dollar business necessarily, 99% sure.

Natasha Miller:

I don't want that, but I wanna know how to get it.

Natasha Miller:

Because I like the information, but there's that other side is that

Natasha Miller:

you can have a lifestyle business and nothing's wrong with that.

Natasha Miller:

You can have something between a lifestyle business and a scaling and

Natasha Miller:

growing almost billion dollar business.

Natasha Miller:

And there's, I mean, there's probably some things wrong with that.

Natasha Miller:

No, I'm kidding.

Natasha Miller:

And I just wanna kind of reframe that as entrepreneurs.

Natasha Miller:

Yes.

Natasha Miller:

We're hungry.

Natasha Miller:

We have a lot of energy.

Natasha Miller:

We love shiny objects and there is a lot of talk about scale and growth and

Natasha Miller:

like, that is the ultimate, but there's also that life family side of things.

Justin Krane:

Yeah.

Natasha Miller:

Right.

Natasha Miller:

Yeah.

Natasha Miller:

So I wanna go back to entrepreneurs and what their number one mistake

Natasha Miller:

is, what should we be looking at?

Natasha Miller:

How can we figure out, I mean, like crystal ball, we just have,

Natasha Miller:

we've got 10% now inflation.

Natasha Miller:

So when I retire in 15 years, do you know how much money I'll really need to

Natasha Miller:

make based on what I'm living on now?

Natasha Miller:

How do you figure that out?

Justin Krane:

Yeah.

Justin Krane:

Okay.

Justin Krane:

So I've got two parts that really, what you're asking me is like, based

Justin Krane:

on this problem of clarity and guessing and being reactive and not proactive.

Justin Krane:

How do you deal with that?

Justin Krane:

And it's like, if you ever, I don't know about you, but like, I've

Justin Krane:

thought about running a marathon and I run like 2, 3, 4 miles a day.

Justin Krane:

And now if you're like, "Hey, you need to run a marathon tomorrow."

Justin Krane:

That's like insane.

Justin Krane:

So you have to work up to it.

Justin Krane:

And even if you go from four miles to five miles, That's still a win.

Justin Krane:

It doesn't have to be all on you.

Justin Krane:

You can hire nutritionist, you can hire a running coach or whatever.

Justin Krane:

So I'm all about progress and momentum.

Justin Krane:

I think that's what people need.

Justin Krane:

So how should you go about doing that?

Justin Krane:

If you're like, what do I need to live and blah, blah, blah.

Justin Krane:

First, I think you have to understand how do you like to learn.

Justin Krane:

and where do you get overwhelmed and where are you gonna just shut down?

Justin Krane:

When people give you information, you're gonna be like, this is too much for me.

Justin Krane:

Do you need to have a glass of wine on a couch?

Justin Krane:

If you like to look at charts and pie graphs, if you like to talk on the

Justin Krane:

phone and not do zoom, like, what is it that you like to do and how, and

Justin Krane:

who can teach that to you in a way that's not gonna paralyze you and make

Justin Krane:

you feel like you actually can run five miles instead of running four.

Justin Krane:

So I would say just chip away at one.

Justin Krane:

Like a simple thing for an entrepreneur and then I'll hit the retirement

Justin Krane:

part is just how much cash did your business generate in a year?

Justin Krane:

And that's on January 1st, you have this amount of money in

Justin Krane:

the bank, December 31st, you had this amount of money in the bank.

Justin Krane:

Where did the money go?

Justin Krane:

And any financial advisor?

Justin Krane:

That focuses on business money or a CFO, or maybe a bookkeeper, probably a CPA too.

Justin Krane:

They can tell that to you.

Justin Krane:

So that's that you have any comments on that?

Justin Krane:

Or you want me to go to the other part of your question?

Natasha Miller:

No, I mean, I'm right there with you.

Natasha Miller:

And then as far as the cash is, and I learned this last week,

Natasha Miller:

you know, as entrepreneurs, we're looking at profit and loss, we're

Natasha Miller:

looking at what is our net income.

Justin Krane:

Yeah.

Natasha Miller:

But we really need to be looking at, of course, that.

Natasha Miller:

What is the cash?

Natasha Miller:

How much out of all accounts do we have?

Natasha Miller:

We could have a profit and no cash.

Justin Krane:

Yes.

Natasha Miller:

That work.

Natasha Miller:

Let's not talk about it now.

Justin Krane:

Yes.

Natasha Miller:

Go ahead with your next one.

Justin Krane:

Yes.

Justin Krane:

So the second part is it's about clarity and I'm sure this has happened to you.

Justin Krane:

Should I?

Justin Krane:

Buy those shoes, there are 400 bucks, but if I buy those shoes and I'm going on

Justin Krane:

vacation and I'm spending 500 a night over here, but then am I gonna be able to pay

Justin Krane:

business class over here for that ticket?

Justin Krane:

I probably don't know if I should be doing all that.

Justin Krane:

I need to put more money away for retirement.

Justin Krane:

I really wanted to pay my mortgage down and I saw my friend on Facebook

Justin Krane:

working three days a week and making all this money and living the best.

Justin Krane:

What am I supposed to do?

Justin Krane:

And how do I get there?

Justin Krane:

So we have 9 million mental conversations with ourselves a day around money.

Justin Krane:

Now I'm making that up.

Justin Krane:

Of course you.

Natasha Miller:

Certainly are because that would kill us all.

Justin Krane:

But yeah, but what I'm talking about is, is soon as you

Justin Krane:

introduce maybe three variables around money in your head, you can't compute

Justin Krane:

and have any clarity on what that would look like in five years or 10 years.

Justin Krane:

So let's role play with me.

Justin Krane:

You're gonna need $20,000 a month to live on.

Justin Krane:

No, you're gonna need $10,000 a month to live on.

Justin Krane:

If you save $40,000 a year and you sell your business for X, can you get that?

Justin Krane:

Oh, but wait a minute.

Justin Krane:

You wanna spend two months in Italy and live on a Villa, but then all of a

Justin Krane:

sudden you wanna be philanthropic and you wanna donate some money each year.

Justin Krane:

Can you do that?

Justin Krane:

I don't know.

Justin Krane:

These variables and these conversations, they need to go

Justin Krane:

on a spreadsheet with software.

Natasha Miller:

Yeah.

Justin Krane:

Period.

Justin Krane:

End of story.

Justin Krane:

Right.

Justin Krane:

Iterate it.

Justin Krane:

Look at scenarios, get your head out of the sand, get a little bit more clarity,

Justin Krane:

have that glass of wine and figure it out.

Natasha Miller:

So there's no one number for any of us.

Natasha Miller:

I think some people think, oh, I have a million dollars in my

Natasha Miller:

retirement, funder savings or whatever.

Natasha Miller:

And that should do it for me for a lot of people, you know, that would work.

Natasha Miller:

Depends on how old, old, I mean, somebody just told me their

Natasha Miller:

father's almost turning a hundred.

Justin Krane:

Yeah.

Justin Krane:

Life expectancy.

Natasha Miller:

Yeah.

Natasha Miller:

Like, okay.

Natasha Miller:

That's who knows?

Natasha Miller:

Maybe just depends on the style of living.

Natasha Miller:

Okay.

Natasha Miller:

We're gonna switch gears here.

Justin Krane:

Okay, cool.

Natasha Miller:

How do you feel about investing in crypto?

Justin Krane:

I have no idea.

Justin Krane:

No clue.

Justin Krane:

I don't even get.

Justin Krane:

I have no opinion.

Justin Krane:

I don't invest in it for my clients.

Justin Krane:

I'm not even going down that path because I don't feel like

Justin Krane:

I completely understand it.

Justin Krane:

And I know I can Google it and understand it that way, but until

Justin Krane:

it's really regulated more, I'm not gonna go down that path.

Justin Krane:

I'm gonna say do that on your own.

Natasha Miller:

Yeah.

Natasha Miller:

Funny money, play money, right?

Justin Krane:

Yeah.

Justin Krane:

Yeah.

Justin Krane:

It's also like, it's a good lesson for all of us.

Justin Krane:

It's okay to say no, and to really not know everything.

Natasha Miller:

Right.

Natasha Miller:

Well, okay.

Natasha Miller:

Along those lines, I'm going to make the assumption and you can correct me that

Natasha Miller:

you are not dabbling in the world of NFTs.

Justin Krane:

No, I kind of know what it is, but like, I don't want to go down

Justin Krane:

the rabbit hole of getting into that.

Justin Krane:

Yeah.

Natasha Miller:

So if I were your client and I would say,

Natasha Miller:

"Hey, I'm interested in crypto."

Natasha Miller:

I mean, there are major financial institutions that are taking this on as a-

Justin Krane:

Yeah.

Justin Krane:

Yeah.

Justin Krane:

I would refer it out.

Justin Krane:

I have referred it out.

Natasha Miller:

Yeah.

Natasha Miller:

And so that's what you do.

Natasha Miller:

Totally.

Natasha Miller:

You say, absolutely.

Natasha Miller:

Do not do that.

Natasha Miller:

It's too risky.

Natasha Miller:

It's not mature enough.

Natasha Miller:

It's not stabilized.

Natasha Miller:

You would say, "Hmm.

Natasha Miller:

I'm not the expert on that specific thing, here's somebody."

Justin Krane:

Yeah.

Justin Krane:

Yeah.

Justin Krane:

Until the SCC re really regulates it and gets it more just way more regulation.

Justin Krane:

Like my Eno insurance.

Justin Krane:

I don't really think it covers that.

Justin Krane:

I doubt if it.

Natasha Miller:

Right.

Natasha Miller:

Gotta protect yourself and your advice, right?

Justin Krane:

Yeah.

Justin Krane:

How about you?

Justin Krane:

What do you think?

Natasha Miller:

Yeah, I've invested a little bit to experience it, not

Natasha Miller:

certainly on a whim to make money.

Natasha Miller:

I'm not saying, "oh my God, this is incredible, I'm gonna be rich."

Natasha Miller:

Same with NFTs.

Natasha Miller:

I've invested in one, I own NFT and I have some coins from Gary Vaynerchuk.

Natasha Miller:

Who's really leading a bunch of entrepreneurs on the NFT trail.

Natasha Miller:

Yeah.

Natasha Miller:

I mean, at one point when I was starting to learn about this and

Natasha Miller:

ETH was affordable to me, right.

Natasha Miller:

One Ethereum, it's not something that I would go for.

Natasha Miller:

You know, I wouldn't invest in one whole Ethereum.

Justin Krane:

Yeah.

Natasha Miller:

Right now, but there are people that I know from EO, even

Natasha Miller:

that have bought like a $200,000 crypto punk or whatever, and that's

Natasha Miller:

also their life and their lifestyle.

Natasha Miller:

They're gamers and their risk takers in a different way than I am.

Natasha Miller:

But I'm the kind of person who wants to delve in and learn as much about

Natasha Miller:

things that are interesting to me.

Natasha Miller:

But they don't have to sync my whole life savings and

Natasha Miller:

everything that I'm interested in.

Justin Krane:

Totally.

Natasha Miller:

Yeah.

Natasha Miller:

So let's talk about what is your definition?

Natasha Miller:

This was interesting that I read that you noted return on life.

Justin Krane:

So I think what it is is, so at the end of the day, we're gonna

Justin Krane:

look back on our life and we're probably gonna, from what I hear that people do

Justin Krane:

is is they look at their experiences.

Justin Krane:

And they evaluate their life that way.

Justin Krane:

And, and maybe a little bit about legacy.

Justin Krane:

And I think if you use your money, that's congruent with what

Justin Krane:

your values are and kind of like grow on that with experiences.

Justin Krane:

You're gonna have a return on your life.

Justin Krane:

And I think people that are just looking at just a return on investment, without it

Justin Krane:

being put in the context of what they want to make them happy and what drives them.

Justin Krane:

It's like you're living in a world of a vacuum and it's a much better

Justin Krane:

way to go about where you feel good about the decisions that you make.

Justin Krane:

You feel good about how you spend your money and how you save it.

Justin Krane:

And it's a great ride.

Justin Krane:

It's a good experience rather than like, just looking at how much money

Justin Krane:

you make or just how much you spend.

Justin Krane:

I think it's about return on life, totally.

Natasha Miller:

I like that thought process.

Natasha Miller:

And, and I met someone recently.

Natasha Miller:

Who's quite young, younger than I am.

Natasha Miller:

And he was just hell bent on making 20 or 30 million in the market.

Natasha Miller:

Like speculating.

Justin Krane:

Yeah, yeah.

Natasha Miller:

Trading and I looked and he was just so like wrenched

Natasha Miller:

with, I don't know, fear and I'm thinking, well, what the heck are

Natasha Miller:

you gonna do with that much money?

Natasha Miller:

What is that about?

Justin Krane:

And if you make 30 versus 25, like, does it change you?

Natasha Miller:

Right.

Natasha Miller:

So in your walk of life, I'm wondering, do you work with a lot of entrepreneurs that

Natasha Miller:

have the sense that you were just talking about that life and experiences Trump?

Natasha Miller:

Oh God.

Natasha Miller:

Why did I use that word?

Natasha Miller:

Overpower the ROI.

Natasha Miller:

And are those people happier in your van from your vantage point?

Justin Krane:

So, let me ask you this.

Justin Krane:

You're now my guest on your show.

Justin Krane:

Fine enough.

Justin Krane:

Do you think it's easy to change people's way that they think, or do you

Justin Krane:

think they need to come to their own conclusion on themselves by themselves

Justin Krane:

based on their own experiences?

Natasha Miller:

I'm personally shaped by the ones of my own experience

Natasha Miller:

with the help at the right time, right place of the prompting of other

Natasha Miller:

people in their thought leadership.

Justin Krane:

Yeah.

Justin Krane:

Let's say that you have a really, really good friend and they have

Justin Krane:

breast cancer and they had a serious, serious scare where it's your cousin.

Justin Krane:

And you're like, "oh my God, that could be me."

Justin Krane:

All of a sudden, it's a game changer for you because you

Justin Krane:

realize that life is fragile.

Justin Krane:

Maybe you do wanna take that vacation.

Justin Krane:

Maybe you do wanna donate to charity.

Justin Krane:

Maybe you do wanna.

Justin Krane:

Just go for a walk on the beach and not work one day or whatever,

Justin Krane:

but it's gonna be that much more real to you because you have an

Justin Krane:

experience that you can identify with.

Natasha Miller:

Right.

Justin Krane:

Versus just telling someone that they need return on life.

Justin Krane:

It's like, what does that mean?

Justin Krane:

Right.

Justin Krane:

But as soon as they see a friend, it becomes that much more real to them.

Justin Krane:

They can internalize it and make financial decisions that

Justin Krane:

they feel are good for them.

Justin Krane:

And look at themselves in the mirror and say, I'm doing.

Natasha Miller:

Yeah, that's a good way to frame it.

Natasha Miller:

Okay.

Natasha Miller:

So it's unfortunate.

Natasha Miller:

The next question I wanna talk about actually has to

Natasha Miller:

do with money, but it's okay.

Natasha Miller:

That's no bring it on.

Natasha Miller:

Right.

Natasha Miller:

But compounding of interest, I didn't-

Justin Krane:

Love that.

Natasha Miller:

Anything about it.

Justin Krane:

Love that!

Natasha Miller:

Anything about it.

Natasha Miller:

And I mean, nothing about it until maybe when my daughter was in elementary school.

Natasha Miller:

I may have just started getting, I think I was being educated by

Natasha Miller:

Susie Orman actually at that point.

Justin Krane:

Yeah.

Natasha Miller:

Still had very little money myself.

Natasha Miller:

And I remember trying to tell my daughter about investing and why she shouldn't.

Natasha Miller:

Specifically run up bills on credit cards and to pay them off.

Natasha Miller:

So she doesn't have to pay like that thing that cost a hundred

Natasha Miller:

dollars that you put on your credit card ends up costing 126, right.

Natasha Miller:

That kind of a thing.

Natasha Miller:

And then started talking to her about compound interest

Natasha Miller:

and she's like, Yeah, mom.

Natasha Miller:

I know about that.

Natasha Miller:

"I'm like, Ugh."

Justin Krane:

Yeah.

Natasha Miller:

Okay.

Natasha Miller:

So bring it on.

Justin Krane:

What do you wanna talk about?

Justin Krane:

So my daughter, so she's 17.

Justin Krane:

Yeah.

Justin Krane:

And the whole compounding of interest is like you invest a

Justin Krane:

hundred dollars a month in 40 years.

Justin Krane:

You'll have 4 billion.

Justin Krane:

Right?

Justin Krane:

All of that.

Justin Krane:

So you tell someone who's 17 about a 40 year compounding of interest.

Justin Krane:

And they're not about 40 years.

Justin Krane:

They're about how many Snapchat likes do I have right now?

Justin Krane:

And like, where am I going to dinner?

Justin Krane:

So we now live in a world of everything right now.

Justin Krane:

like, everything is right now.

Justin Krane:

And the whole thing with compounding of interest is lots and lots of time in being

Justin Krane:

patient and not reacting to the BS of the media on panicking people about anything.

Justin Krane:

It's about just investing really for the long term.

Justin Krane:

I know that's so hokey, but that.

Justin Krane:

I mean, Warren buffet.

Justin Krane:

I listened to this podcast interview by his first name is Morgan.

Justin Krane:

He wrote a book called the psychology of money.

Justin Krane:

He was on Tim Ferris's show and he talked about, and I

Justin Krane:

bought his book and I read it.

Justin Krane:

It's about Warren buffet.

Justin Krane:

Like Warren Buffet's it's the wrong percentage, but like 60%

Justin Krane:

of Warren Buffet's net worth happened after he was age 65.

Justin Krane:

In his eighties now I think he's 90, I think, because what happened was he had

Justin Krane:

invested for so long and the compounding kicked in, I'm making this in years 30 to

Justin Krane:

40 and that's where, but people nowadays it's like, they want everything right now.

Justin Krane:

And I think the world needs a little bit more perspective and long term

Justin Krane:

structure and compounding on a lot.

Justin Krane:

I mean, did you become successful over.

Justin Krane:

No, it's the Picasso napkin, $50,000 cartoon drawing spiel.

Natasha Miller:

Right?

Natasha Miller:

Right.

Justin Krane:

I love compounding of interest.

Justin Krane:

Love.

Justin Krane:

Yeah.

Natasha Miller:

Okay.

Natasha Miller:

I see that.

Natasha Miller:

I love that, but I will tell you, I understand it.

Natasha Miller:

And I'm older than my daughter.

Natasha Miller:

Who's 26 and you're older than your daughter.

Natasha Miller:

That's 17.

Natasha Miller:

Clearly of course you have to be, but I still want things in the moment

Natasha Miller:

and I still have to talk myself down.

Natasha Miller:

I guess I'm old enough to have that.

Natasha Miller:

I want it in the moment, but then there is a voice that

Natasha Miller:

eventually kicks in at some point.

Natasha Miller:

Yeah.

Natasha Miller:

The voice of reason, right?

Natasha Miller:

Yeah.

Natasha Miller:

But younger people.

Natasha Miller:

I remember when I was working in my early twenties and had a 401k, I,

Natasha Miller:

I couldn't fathom why I would put something in an account that I wouldn't

Natasha Miller:

be able to get out until way longer.

Natasha Miller:

And of course, you know, a little bit about my background.

Natasha Miller:

That was not how I was.

Justin Krane:

Yeah, no for sure.

Justin Krane:

Absolutely.

Justin Krane:

I mean, you want your.

Justin Krane:

How am I gonna survive today?

Justin Krane:

Right.

Justin Krane:

But I think as you age, and this really happened to me after my father passed

Justin Krane:

away, is that you see that you're mortal and you're not going to live forever.

Justin Krane:

And as you get older, you see that.

Justin Krane:

And the thing that I tell people is the fact, I never really realize this,

Justin Krane:

but I've bridged the gap for them.

Justin Krane:

So if you're 20 years old, and you're thinking about, I don't know

Justin Krane:

where I'm gonna be when I'm 65.

Justin Krane:

That's crazy.

Justin Krane:

But here's something that I think a lot of the millennials can grasp.

Justin Krane:

At some point you're gonna be married.

Justin Krane:

You might have a house and you might have kids, they'll get that.

Justin Krane:

They're like, okay.

Justin Krane:

Yeah.

Justin Krane:

And I'm like, okay, well, when you're married with kids and you're changing

Justin Krane:

diapers and you're 30 years old or 40, you're gonna have a busier life

Justin Krane:

with more obligations and it's gonna be harder to save, cuz you're gonna be

Justin Krane:

spending money on other things as well.

Justin Krane:

So imagine being 45 and having had put money away and got that compounding

Justin Krane:

for 20 years and then I just would make it up like instead of putting

Justin Krane:

away $20,000 for your retirement.

Justin Krane:

What if you only had to put away 13,000 and you could take that 7,000 and go

Justin Krane:

buy shoes with it, or a vacation or like relentless books, whatever it is.

Justin Krane:

right.

Justin Krane:

And they're like, oh, that's cool.

Justin Krane:

You may not.

Justin Krane:

Won't be so stressed out when I'm 35 and married with two little takes.

Justin Krane:

Yeah, they get that.

Justin Krane:

And that's what gets them going?

Natasha Miller:

You bring it a little closer to where they're now.

Natasha Miller:

Yeah, I love that.

Natasha Miller:

Okay.

Natasha Miller:

Here's a hard question.

Natasha Miller:

It might be super easy, but do you take your own advice?

Justin Krane:

Most of the time, yes, I did this one, this

Justin Krane:

return on life three years ago.

Justin Krane:

So my daughter.

Justin Krane:

I was taking her to Italy and the trip got canceled because my

Justin Krane:

dad passed away around that time.

Justin Krane:

So we put it on hold and then I knew that one of our best friends' kids

Justin Krane:

was gonna be bar Mitz fit in Israel.

Justin Krane:

And I'm like, I gotta do it.

Justin Krane:

Like, it's my,

Natasha Miller:

By the way, it's a four hour flight from Israel to Italy.

Natasha Miller:

Yeah.

Natasha Miller:

But I'll let you.

Justin Krane:

They were separate trips.

Justin Krane:

My wife's like, you're flying with us.

Justin Krane:

You're not going with our daughter and coming home and all, you

Justin Krane:

know, like you're coming home and we're gonna go as a family.

Justin Krane:

So it was really, really hard for me to spend the money, to take my daughter

Justin Krane:

to Italy, to come back, to take our whole family, to Israel and London.

Justin Krane:

It was very, very hard for me to spend the money.

Justin Krane:

It just got hard, but I knew I was doing something that I could live with.

Justin Krane:

And now looking back with three years of COVID and, or two,

Justin Krane:

whatever, not people traveling I'm like, that was a great decision.

Justin Krane:

So I had to make a decision that was right for me.

Justin Krane:

Mm-hmm even though it was a little bit painful, it was a good thing.

Justin Krane:

So do I follow my advice most of the time?

Justin Krane:

Yes.

Justin Krane:

Yeah.

Natasha Miller:

Are you set for retirement?

Justin Krane:

Am I set for retirement?

Justin Krane:

So I got divorced when I was 40.

Justin Krane:

So when you get divorced, I don't care how wealthy you are.

Justin Krane:

It's a reset.

Justin Krane:

So am I set for retirement a hundred percent?

Justin Krane:

No.

Justin Krane:

Am I on my way?

Justin Krane:

Totally.

Justin Krane:

You have your plan.

Justin Krane:

I have a plan.

Justin Krane:

I know how much I need to put away.

Justin Krane:

I have a business, it produces income.

Justin Krane:

I've got a plan on saving, I'm diversified, and I know

Justin Krane:

that I'm gonna be okay.

Justin Krane:

But I had to get right in the beginning at age 40 of like,

Justin Krane:

okay, you can do this, go again.

Justin Krane:

but you gotta persevere and you gotta stick to.

Natasha Miller:

Yeah.

Natasha Miller:

Yeah.

Natasha Miller:

Okay.

Natasha Miller:

So about your business, you have a couple of people on your team, is that correct?

Justin Krane:

Yeah.

Justin Krane:

Yep.

Natasha Miller:

How big is your team?

Natasha Miller:

It's three.

Justin Krane:

So I have one VA and two staff members.

Natasha Miller:

Okay.

Natasha Miller:

What do you do with the small team for culture and core

Natasha Miller:

values and stickiness and yeah.

Natasha Miller:

Making sure that they're with you, like for as long as you can keep them.

Justin Krane:

Yeah.

Justin Krane:

I think it's about learning and grow.

Justin Krane:

And finding out what it is that they want to do to learn and grow.

Justin Krane:

I also think financial is important in some respect, so

Justin Krane:

that they're happy with that.

Justin Krane:

But look with COVID.

Justin Krane:

It's been hard.

Justin Krane:

I mean, they're now still remote and we're working on bringing them back into the

Justin Krane:

office, but how do you encourage growth in community and culture in a COVID

Justin Krane:

world where you're not together every day and where you can't even get together?

Justin Krane:

So my way is to be real and to share with them what I'm doing and

Justin Krane:

ask them what's important to them.

Justin Krane:

And give some of that to them.

Natasha Miller:

Cause what's important to, you may not have any bearing on what's

Natasha Miller:

important to them and they vice versa.

Natasha Miller:

They may not understand.

Natasha Miller:

So that's great that you're able to really ask the question and

Natasha Miller:

not just make the assumption.

Justin Krane:

For sure.

Justin Krane:

Yeah.

Natasha Miller:

And then lastly, I wanna talk about your strategy within your

Natasha Miller:

business to grow, to attract new, better, bigger clients or whatever you're doing.

Natasha Miller:

Is there one thing you're really just focused on learn the middle of

Natasha Miller:

the year for the rest of the year?

Justin Krane:

Yeah, I think the biggest thing that I come back to

Justin Krane:

and it's a total work in progress for us is the client's experience.

Justin Krane:

Every single way that we touch them.

Justin Krane:

What's happening, period.

Justin Krane:

How does the email look when they read an email from us?

Natasha Miller:

Good for you.

Natasha Miller:

Yeah.

Natasha Miller:

I just wanna stop for applause because I haven't really heard that from.

Natasha Miller:

I mean, I think I've interviewed over 70 episodes have aired.

Justin Krane:

Yeah.

Natasha Miller:

And no one has responded with that.

Natasha Miller:

And I very much appreciate that.

Justin Krane:

Thank you.

Natasha Miller:

And I'm all about experience design

Natasha Miller:

and it is important to me.

Natasha Miller:

So you're like talking.

Justin Krane:

Yeah.

Justin Krane:

So here's an example.

Justin Krane:

We spend a week on this and if my clients are listening great.

Justin Krane:

We don't know yet if we're gonna pull it off but I'm gonna say it

Justin Krane:

anyways, cuz it'll be after the fact.

Justin Krane:

So we got father's day coming up.

Natasha Miller:

Yes.

Justin Krane:

So we have everyone's FA and we did for mother's day, we sent

Justin Krane:

one of those face masks in a card.

Justin Krane:

Everyone loved it.

Justin Krane:

I'm like, they're not gonna like that.

Justin Krane:

And my two staff,

Natasha Miller:

What do you mean face masks?

Natasha Miller:

You mean like the snail gooey ones that-

Justin Krane:

The thing you put on your face and you, and like, and they're

Justin Krane:

like, no, everyone's gonna love it.

Justin Krane:

Everyone's gonna love it.

Justin Krane:

So, we sent it and I, everyone was like, thank you.

Justin Krane:

This was great.

Justin Krane:

And I'm like, so first of all, I kind of, I kind of asked my staff about that.

Justin Krane:

And now for the dads, we're trying to get this chocolate bar to be able to go in

Justin Krane:

an envelope with a really cool dad image and like funny saying to go in the card.

Justin Krane:

But we've tested it out and the thing breaks, it of might melt and we're

Justin Krane:

like, oh my God, what are we doing?

Natasha Miller:

Should order a lot of them.

Justin Krane:

Right.

Justin Krane:

Well, so we first we tested it and we got one, but it broken the mail.

Justin Krane:

And then we just went and we bought a Hershey bar and we tried to put it

Justin Krane:

in and we tested that and it melted.

Justin Krane:

So we're like, we're not doing that.

Justin Krane:

So we got another one which we're working on.

Justin Krane:

I also have a very, very curated getting to know you process

Justin Krane:

with interview questions.

Justin Krane:

And we're now really working on managing the data.

Justin Krane:

So it's decline experience that, and we're like a four outta a 10 on this.

Justin Krane:

Like, we gotta get to like a six and then a seven and then an eight, but that's-

Natasha Miller:

Are you following anybody's guidelines?

Natasha Miller:

Are you making this up as you go?

Justin Krane:

Totally making it up as I go.

Natasha Miller:

Interesting.

Natasha Miller:

You probably know of this person.

Natasha Miller:

I think he's an EO or was, I think he is John Ruen.

Justin Krane:

Yeah.

Natasha Miller:

Giftology.

Justin Krane:

Giftology, yeah.

Justin Krane:

That's a book that I have to read.

Natasha Miller:

Yeah.

Natasha Miller:

It's an interesting idea.

Natasha Miller:

Like I just hired a business development manager for the first time ever for ENTIRE

Natasha Miller:

PRODUCTIONS and she was talking about.

Natasha Miller:

What she did in her past job.

Natasha Miller:

And for some reason it got too gifting and how you gift.

Natasha Miller:

And I was like, listen, we're not giving gifts at Christmas and on birthdays.

Natasha Miller:

Yeah.

Natasha Miller:

And as a thank you for business, I learned that through John Ruen.

Justin Krane:

Yeah.

Natasha Miller:

And you know, it is part of that experience design and

Natasha Miller:

that authentic connection to clients.

Natasha Miller:

Not the other thing is mistake.

Natasha Miller:

No client is getting a happy birthday wish from me, but

Natasha Miller:

- Justin Krane: Yeah, like, and

Natasha Miller:

I can't like go send a gift card for $400 to someone.

Natasha Miller:

Can you send a cut code knife?

Justin Krane:

Yeah, exactly.

Justin Krane:

Like I can't there's limits on what you can do in ways, you know, that

Justin Krane:

you have to be on the up and up and play by the rules, which we do.

Justin Krane:

But I also think like it's important to be clever.

Justin Krane:

That's the word that I like, like, oh my God, how did they think of that?

Justin Krane:

What do they get that?

Justin Krane:

Like, if I get a bottle of wine from someone I don't

Justin Krane:

drink white, I don't drink,

Natasha Miller:

I don't drink at all.

Natasha Miller:

I get a lot of wine.

Justin Krane:

Yeah.

Justin Krane:

But when they send me, I'm like, did they take the time to look?

Justin Krane:

So we get a lot of people knocking our doors to promote whatever it is.

Justin Krane:

For on their, their stuff on our clients.

Justin Krane:

And I probably turned down most of it because it's not well thought out.

Justin Krane:

Yeah.

Natasha Miller:

Justin, is there anything else that you wanna talk about that we did

Natasha Miller:

not approach during this time together?

Justin Krane:

I just wanna say I had so much fun watching

Justin Krane:

you sing and read your book.

Justin Krane:

And I was in the back.

Justin Krane:

But I felt like, and I don't know why I was in the back.

Justin Krane:

Maybe it's just cause I was sitting in the back or maybe I went to the

Justin Krane:

bathroom and then you came on stage and I'm like, I don't wanna interrupt you.

Justin Krane:

But I felt like I was literally right in front of you and your music and

Justin Krane:

your voice, even the guy playing with you that just, everything was great.

Justin Krane:

And you know, sometimes connecting with people happens in a different

Justin Krane:

way than you're expecting.

Natasha Miller:

We didn't have a one on one, really, those two days.

Justin Krane:

No.

Justin Krane:

Yeah, no, no.

Justin Krane:

But,

Natasha Miller:

And look at us now.

Justin Krane:

And I also think sometimes things happen for a reason and sometimes

Justin Krane:

I don't know, there's more to that.

Justin Krane:

Like relentless to me, it's a deep word.

Natasha Miller:

For more information, go to the show notes where

Natasha Miller:

you're listening to this podcast.

Natasha Miller:

Wanna know more about me go to my website, OfficialNatashaMiller.com.

Natasha Miller:

Thank you so much for listening.

Natasha Miller:

I hope you loved the show.

Natasha Miller:

If you did, please subscribe also, if you haven't done so yet,

Natasha Miller:

please leave a review where you're listening to this podcast now.

Natasha Miller:

I'm Natasha Miller and you've been listening to FASCINATING ENTREPRENEURS.

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