{"href":"http://player.captivate.fm/services/oembed?url=http%3A%2F%2Fplayer.captivate.fm%2Fepisode%2F4a1e6ee9-d3fa-4df9-a2ad-359b16939857","version":"1.0","provider_name":"Captivate.FM","provider_url":"https://www.captivate.fm","width":600,"height":200,"type":"rich","html":"","title":"30 \u2013 Mark Kosieradzki \u2013 Galvanizing Depositions","description":"Mark Kosieradzki – Galvanizing Depositions\nIn this Trial Lawyer Nation podcast, Michael Cowen sits down with well-known attorney, author of https://www.trialguides.com/products/30-b-6 (30(b)(6) Deposing Corporations, Organizations and the Government ) andhttps://www.justice.org/depositionobstruction ( Deposition Obstruction: Breaking Through), and long-time presenter at countless legal events, Mark Kosieradzki. This is the best legal podcast for new lawyers.\nMark recalls growing up with parents who were scrappy, rightfully so given their startling history, who instilled in him to stand up for principles, ultimately leading him down the path of becoming a trial lawyer. He points out that many go into the field with a \u201cwin at all costs\u201d type mentality, but his father always told him that \u201cif you cheat to win, you really didn\u2019t win,\u201d which he continues to carry with him throughout his successful career in law today.\nMark describes one of the most successful tools he has learned to use in the courtroom are the rules themselves. He finds it to be a lot less stressful when you use the rules to get to the truth and if you play by the rules, you can force the other side to play by them too, which most times is not to their advantage. When Michael asks him how he might know if the opposing side is hiding something from you or not telling the truth, Mark very candidly replies that he starts with the premise that they are, and that trial lawyers want to tell the jury a story whereas a litigator wants to hide evidence. He goes on to impart that when they say they are going to give you \u201ceverything,\u201d it\u2019s really more like code for saying we\u2019ll give you everything that doesn\u2019t hurt their case.\nMark shares his evolution of new techniques regarding how he approaches depositions. He starts with a lot of case analysis, storyboarding, puts all his information in \u201cbuckets,\u201d and then looks at what he\u2019s trying to accomplish. With that, he starts with the assumption that one person could provide all the information, then structures an outline of what this one person could tell him and works at it to identify what documents are being electronically stored. Then he creates a request for production but doesn\u2019t serve it, knowing there will be immediate objections. Next, he creates a 30(b)(6) designee deposition with a schedule of documents in it but doesn\u2019t request the documents. We\u2019d like someone who can provide all known documents in the organization that exist in this category, Mark continues. Where are they located, how are they organized, and most importantly, what are the methods available for searching? Without having requested anything, we are establishing the most effective and efficient way to request the electronic information, while also preempted all the boilerplate objections before we ask for them. Michael wonders about getting any push back regarding doing discovery on discovery to which Mark explains there is no discovery on discovery because you haven\u2019t asked for the documents yet. Which is brilliant!\nMichael asks how Mark structures his life to where he has time to storyboard, plot out cases, take depositions, and then craft his cases. The simple answer, Mark replies, is to just say \u201cNO\u201d to cases, continuing to say that his firm currently turns down 6-8 cases a day and work with small caseloads. Mark remembers starting out as a volume lawyer with 250-300 cases and works with the mentality of getting as many cases as you can and then you settle them based on getting each case\u2019s fixed value with as little work as possible. That type of nonsense, however, assumes that the other side determines the value of each case. He\u2019s also found that by spending more time up front on a case, their hourly value has gone up significantly because they take the time to get the evidence and prove each case. Michael relates his own firm where he\u2019s found the fewer cases each of his lawyers have...","thumbnail_width":300,"thumbnail_height":300,"thumbnail_url":"https://artwork.captivate.fm/80de4db6-da18-41b8-9643-156c5d06db25/tln-logo-itunes-1400.jpg"}