{"href":"http://player.captivate.fm/services/oembed?url=http%3A%2F%2Fplayer.captivate.fm%2Fepisode%2Fc07f45bf-03e2-424d-bc80-21dcb9260062","version":"1.0","provider_name":"Captivate.FM","provider_url":"https://www.captivate.fm","width":600,"height":200,"type":"rich","html":"","title":"58 \u2013 Nick Rowley \u2013 Brutal Honesty","description":"In this long-awaited podcast, Michael sits down with renowned trial lawyer Nick Rowley. They discuss Nick\u2019s journey to success, how he came up with \u201cbrutal honesty,\u201d his book \u201cRunning With the Bulls,\u201d the secret to settling high value cases, saying \u201cno\u201d to the defense, and Nick\u2019s advice for how to become a better trial lawyer.\nThe conversation begins with Nick sharing his path to becoming the record-breaking trial lawyer he is today. Nick describes himself as a \u201cjuvenile delinquent\u201d when he was a child. He was bullied a lot in school and expelled from every school he attended. After graduation, he decided to join the military to \u201ckill bad guys,\u201d but ended up becoming a medic. It was this role that fueled him with purpose. Using his GI Bill, Nick finished his bachelor\u2019s degree and attended law school to continue his desire to help others, which he describes as an addiction.\nNick was never afraid to take tough cases to trial and losing, because he grew up getting beat up. He adds that even if he does lose, he learns more from his losses than his wins and they help make him a better lawyer. Michael echoes this sentiment and agrees that losses hurt in the short-term, but don\u2019t bother him in the long run.\nThe conversation shifts when Michael shares how he\u2019s noticed most top trial lawyers weren\u2019t \u201cborn with a silver spoon in their mouth,\u201d to which Nick wholeheartedly agrees. \u201cIt\u2019s about life experience,\u201d Nick states. He goes on to explain how if you\u2019ve never had to work hard, experience failure, been afraid, or gone without, you don\u2019t have the same \u201chunger\u201d as someone who has. Nick emphasizes the importance of inner drive and notes trial lawyers who grew up without anything know if they don\u2019t put in the work, no one else is going to do it for them. Michael also explains how it\u2019s easier to feel comfortable in a client\u2019s home when you\u2019re used to the environment most of them live in. Both share stories of getting to know clients on a personal level and how this translates to a successful jury verdict.\nMichael then transitions by asking Nick which case he is most proud of in his established career. Instead of talking about his largest verdict, he shares a story of a smaller verdict on a particularly challenging case. After being called upon by a lawyer having severe health issues the day before his trial was set to begin, Nick flew out to Santa Monica to help get the case continued. The defense lawyer was uncooperative and lacked the slightest bit of sympathy for the attorney, so Nick decided to try it without any prior knowledge of the case. His description of voir dire and addressing what he saw as the pain points of the case with brutal honesty is riveting and concludes with a $1.5 million verdict based solely on non-economic damages.\nNick is highly regarded as a trial lawyer for many reasons, but he is probably most famous for coining the term \u201cbrutally honest\u201d in jury selection. Nick shares the story of how he came up with the term and explains why it works so well. He emphasizes the importance of asking jurors to define \u201cbrutal honesty\u201d themselves, then asking them to please be brutally honest with you. This strategy has made a huge difference in Nick\u2019s jury selection process. As an example, Michael role plays as a juror who doesn\u2019t believe in money for pain. Through this example, Nick shows how he would address a juror with these views. Michael and Nick both agree stereotyping jurors immediately is an ineffective strategy and should be avoided.\nThe conversation shifts into a discussion of Nick\u2019s book, \u201chttps://www.trialguides.com/products/running-with-the-bulls (Running With the Bulls).\u201d Michael inquires as to why Nick decided to write a book about settling cases when he is most famous for trying cases. Nick answers simply, \u201cI do settle cases.\u201d Nick insists the secret to settling cases for high value is \u201chaving the balls to go to trial.","thumbnail_width":300,"thumbnail_height":300,"thumbnail_url":"https://artwork.captivate.fm/80de4db6-da18-41b8-9643-156c5d06db25/tln-logo-itunes-1400.jpg"}