On this kinetic episode, Teri-Denise is joined by local Lansing Art Therapist, Kathy Kuhn, to highlight the therapeutic benefits of dance. Kathy shares her mission to deliver world-bound peacefulness and how dance, art, music, and creative expression can facilitate this goal, easing one towards recovery from trauma. Through her artistic energy, Kathy embodies the importance of connection through community, encouraging everyone find a path to resilience and self-discovery in a world fraught with challenges.

Hello there, this is Teri-Denise, a Lansing Community College student and your host of RIPPER, an LCC Connect podcast, where I interview others and ask about their unique efforts and connections in, around and beyond the community of Michigan's Capital City.

Well, hello there. This is Teri-Denise. Thank you so much for joining Ripper today. I have our guest, Kathie Kuhn today. Kathie, how are you doing?

Oh, fabulous. How are you?

I'm okay. This is a wonderful day. The sky is blue, the sun is out.

There's barely a cloud in the sky, and our trees look fabulous before they're all torn to shreds with being dumped on the ground. The leaves fall, and so too the season of the fall, the falling of many things, of objects, so things can go into the ground.

We've got our Persephone, our Persephone colonists going into hibernation for renewal, coming forth with our longer son that we'll soon be approaching again as the world turns around our son.

Beautifully spoken.

How do you feel about that? Because I feel like you are one to. We go through our changes and we are resilient, and you are a stronghold of a person.

Thank you.

That I have seen exude those kinds of resiliency. So do you like to. I know you do a lot of movement. Do you like to fall with a lot of your movements? And by movement, I mean dancing.

Yes. I call myself an interpretive, A bun dancer.

A bun dancer. So a lot of abundance going on with that dancing.

Exactly. Yes. Yes. And so my preference is live music from the heart.

Okay.

Yes. And the reasons I dance are multifold. So maybe I'll start with respect for the band.

Okay.

Yes, yes.

So is that your mantra that you put forth in your head before you go out or just in general? That's just a. Yeah.

Well, I will say, as also a person who's a musician, when people dance, you know, it's helpful. And if someone is offering that space and engaging in it, you know, I've had many, many people in bands thank me for dancing and other people, too.

So that's one thing as well. I will say, it's so healing metabolically, physically, biologically, emotionally, sensually. I mean, just in every way.

We're born dancing, and I feel it shifts energy on the earth, actually. And anyone with trauma, this world's a traumatic place. There's a whole lot of suffering out there, and it helps with trauma as well.

You know, studies say that a friend just shared, so I haven't looked this at that. She said, oh, did you know that depression that dancing is better for depression than antidepressants. You know, I can believe it.

And I think it inspires people in a world that.

Where, you know, violence is entertainment and we're so technologically engaged in creativity and nature, you know, have kind of gone by the wayside, I think, for a lot of people, you know, and we crave that, you know, so it's kind of getting back to the garden. And we're part of that garden.

Yeah.

Yeah, we are. You know, and. And so there. Yeah. So that. That's.

I guess I love how you. How you mentioned shifting that energy because that you shift the mood as well when you are dancing.

You are my mood.

You can totally do a scientific study on this as well to add onto the studies where there's a bunch of molecules that we're made of and a bunch of molecules that we have that are flowing through the air. Sound frequency molecules. So you are literally shift the. The molecules around you when you are dancing, which. So you are definitely.

I love the fact that. Wow. I love the fact that bands. Thank you. Because I know. So as a fellow musician, it is

one of those dancer.

It's one of those things that happens where you get people that just stand there with their arms crossed and you're like, I am playing my heart out out of here.

Or, you know, so to have other people that appreciate like you and you show respect for them, they show respect back by thanking you for creating a different mood that lightens the place up. And I have. I don't remember the first time we met Kathie, but I definitely know that every time I see.

I can feel some vibe in the air and I'm like, there's somebody on the dance floor. I wonder if it's Miss Kathie Kuhn out there. And sure enough, it is. Usually because you project a great energy.

You project a sense of why, you know, why. Why stand around. Why be static right now? Why there's, you know, there's somebody up here that is definitely. They're moved to perform themselves.

They're moved to have booked this. This time. Let's share this time with them. You know, let's. Let's have some reciprocal action going on here.

So I thank you as well, because you have definitely danced for many bands that I have performed in on St. Which Dagwoods would be one place, one space. I know Max Bar, the Avenue, probably back in the day. Basement 414. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That space.

A very collective art space. And you used to. I know you had been there at some point. In time. Were you doing art there as well?

Because it was a shared collective art space as well.

No, I honestly don't remember.

It's a long time ago. It's become something else. But that used to be the loft area. It was the basement of the loft.

I do remember. Yes. I did have some interplay.

Yeah. So there's. I know you.

Can I mention one other critical thing about dancing?

Yeah.

Now, I have been vegetarian for about 35 years.

Congratulations.

Thank you.

You made it.

Yes, and I continue to be so. But also dancing in Peru. You've heard of maybe the tarantula? Okay, so there's a tarantula who lives in Peru. And if you're bit, you may die.

And the response of the community that you live in when this happens, if this happens, you're called the tarantula. And people gather and they drum and they dance and the person dances until they pass out, and they dance the poison out and they survive.

And I'm going to tell you something is that I don't get sick. I honestly cannot remember the last time I actually, like, had a cold or whatever. I didn't get Covid. You know what I mean?

I'm just saying I'm blessed and I'm grateful and I'm grateful to these bands for making beautiful music also, you know, I mean, gratitude is a good one.

So that's.

So a lot of the somatic release is what you're speaking of, where people are literally moving, making movements in their body and getting their blood pumping, moving, their muscles moving, bones moving, and it pushes out this toxicity of what you speak of. So we. I've had Emily Walensky in here, and she does a somatic class I'm sure you would appreciate participating in.

But speaking on the matter of moving to get the toxins out, that. And that does speak to your brain as well. When people do move at shows, their eyes start darting around, and the.

The less that they are thinking so hard about what they look like, the more fun they have. And it's. It's that letting go of certain moments so you can actually live in the moment.

So you're not up there with your phone the entire time recording everything. Right. Or texting. And those are the points where you suddenly are engaged with everything around you without having to think about it.

And that's a part of the. That's a part of a healing process as well that we are regularly going through.

I don't think we realize that we are regularly healing day in and day out as well as through the years and weeks and months and whatnot. But through that, I just wanted to actually ask where some of the healing processes for you began as like a baby. Where. Where are you from originally?

I was born in Grand Rapids.

Okay. And then you shifted over to Lansing area. Did you go to college?

I went to Michigan State University. Okay.

What did you study?

I was in the international studies in the College of Social Sciences with emphases in political science, English, geography and Spanish.

Oh, my goodness. Okay. So some heavy stuff there.

Well, it was kind of. I was forced to declare a major.

Okay.

And funny thing, I initially I wanted to do art therapy and they didn't have a program and they said I could put together something, you know, and I didn't. Instead I just took all kinds of different classes. But that is what I ended up becoming as an art therapist.

There you go. So we. So you should be able to. What brought you to the capital city area?

Michigan State University. You know, I mean, I moved to East Lansing and I slowly shifted to Lansing.

Okay.

I spent a lot of time at Lansing Community College, actually.

Were you a visitor to.

A frequent visitor to the capitol at all when you were younger before moving from Grand Rapids, where you often traveling around the state of Michigan as a Michigander?

I've pretty much been planted in Lansing pretty much since I. Yes, yes, I would say so. Yeah. And early on in 19, probably 88, I believe, was my first, I think so anyway. It was at Michigan State University.

Anti racist action.

Okay.

Was, I believe, my first, I think, organization that I got involved with.

All right. And tell me a little bit about that.

Well, we now. It's under different ownership now.

Okay.

So everyone be aware of that. But Max Barr was actually hosting bands that would play white supremacist music.

Oh, yes.

Again, this was in the 80s and so we did weekly picketing.

Okay.

You know, protesting of that. And then we would have speakers and show films just around the topic of, you know, racism really.

And like Mumia Abu Jamal was a person that we would do fundraisers for. And we actually, back in the day, though, we did form a women's ARA because there was sexism within the group, unfortunately.

And that is when I actually rapped for the first time. Yes. I'm a rapper also.

Yes. I have seen you do a lot of poetry. I've seen you do slam poetry. I thought I've heard you slight.

I thought I've heard some rap in what you do because it's usual, but there's usually the music that you do with the Music that you do, that you produce. So I am impressed about the rapping. Oh, thank you.

Thank you.

Was this specific? Were they raps that you wrote?

Yeah. Well, okay, here's the story. We were doing a fundraiser at Fruma Miu Aboujmo, and it was a hip hop. People, you know, were rapping, taking turns.

And I started hearing B ho, just stuff. And I was like, I thought we were here for justice, people. And I was like, oh, I need to say something.

And I had something that I had written that was not a song because I'm a songwriter. And I was like, well, and I happen to have my book on me. And I got up and I just rapped it out. And I was like, wow.

And people are like, I didn't know you rapped. I'm like, I did not know this either. And then for two weeks or so, I was overcome with rap. I was dreaming in rap and I was. And I wrote a whole bunch.

And it's one of the longest pieces in my book. It's dedicated to ending misogyny, the war against female identified people.

So that is impressive and inspiring.

Fun story, right?

My goodness. So I just wanted to reference Mumia, who was a political prisoner.

Yes, he is still. He's been on death row for a long time and where he's a Black Panther.

As far as I know, he's still incarcerated and there's still a big movement, you know, for his freedom.

Of course. So you have done a lot of activism in your lifetime.

This is true.

And even so, you. Which you just spoke about, the writings that you've done and you have. You publish as well.

So you are a musician, you are an art therapist, you are a writer, you're a performer and ceramic artist. A ceramic artist. You have a book out titled the

Truth for a Change.

And what is in a Truth for a Change? What is this book by Kathie Kuhn?

So the goal is world peace. Okay.

Okay.

Yes. And it's a compilation of 32 pieces. It's entirely hand done with a whole variety of art mediums. And it's poetry. There's a bit of prose in there.

Some of it's in the public domain. So.

Yeah, so it's a bit of a collection of your art. It's just. It's your words, your pictures.

Yeah, really? I included a lifetime of artwork in this thing. And starting with.

And it's beautifully put together as well. It's so colorful. Every single page has color in it, which I adore.

A lot of it's engraved in Ceramic. And this piece I did in sixth grade, it's an oil painting.

See, this is what I mean. Pulling the stuff that made you you from your origin story. And you keep this along with you because it's a point of strength for you.

It's something that you keep in as your healing process as you go on. And that's amazing to me.

That's one of those things that I think that as we get older that we forget that sometimes that there are pieces of us that we should not ever throw away, that should always be with us that are part of who we are in going forward in processing our day to day beats. Because we have our unique heartbeats, we have the beat that we of course march to or roll to glide to sometimes depending on who you are.

So I love that you have a piece that's in your feature here.

Well, the sad truth is I ran out of books. I sold out. I'm a self pub author and so

this is a sold out.

There are copies. There's a copy in the library. Downtown library.

Oh nice.

In the basement.

Capital area district library There sure is.

In the local section in the basement as well. My CDs and some of my posters are down there. So.

Okay, and then do you are.

And a few area businesses have house copies.

Okay. And then so as.

And 750 people have other copies.

My goodness. So you publish yourself. Correct. And what is the name of your business by the way?

It's piece is.

Piece is. Is the distributor and the business. What else do you like to sell? What else do you like to do through pieces?

Well, I will mention real quick, I'm working on a second edition of my book.

Oh, excellent.

Yes, yes. Coming soon everybody.

Yeah. Do you have a date by.

Oh no, no, no, no.

It's when it happens, that's when.

Sorry, but no, I've been writing more recently and so we'll have addendum on the topic of dance. I will say get this dance for me. Be as beautiful as you can be. We must be free.

I love that snaps.

Thank you. Yeah, yeah.

So there'll be more that you'll be speaking of on Dance on the second edition. You're gonna add some st. The forwards maybe or.

Well, if you were to read my book, you would see dance already entered into it. But my newer pieces, I really kind of want to put them all in the public domain.

Oh yeah, okay.

Yes I do. So one of the pieces I could show you, I did write out in ceramic. So it's definitely going in the book. And it's going on to the end of the.

A piece called Warm Summer Rain. It's on my cd, so it's right here.

And what is the CD titled?

It's Love Rose is my band name. And it's. World Peace is Inevitable.

Love Rose.

World Peace is inevitable.

This. Oh, lovely. I love the tattoo.

Thank you.

The tattoo is the name of Love Rose. And there's this beautiful rose and Captured Man. That's. That's some. We're together.

Devil's Day all the way.

Oh, my goodness.

Like, get in square.

Gotta get in there. That's a beautiful piece. As well as this piece that you're showing me here. This is one of your. This is one of the ceramic pieces.

It is. Yep.

Okay.

Yep.

And this says, peace overcomes.

Well, you know what? Can I tell you something?

Yeah, please.

I could sing it for you.

Go ahead.

Sure. And you can read along.

Okay. So we have. We are doing an impromptu bit here. So who else is in the. Who else is in the band with you?

Well, I say we are, Love Rose.

We.

Exactly. Because I often pass out percussion instruments to other people as well. I collaborate with a lot of variety, any variety of other instrumentation.

So I play percussion myself, hand percussion.

And currently I have a friend who plays guitar and banjo and another friend who plays piano and a friend who plays cello who are maybe showing up more often. So that's exciting.

How fun. So it's more the royal we. A collaborative we. I love this. And that includes me right now as well. Yeah. All right, I've got my shaker over here.

I'm ready to. Ready to go with you. So I'm just gonna read over what we are, what we're gonna hear from you. Okay. The words that you are going to be saying.

And there's our.

Peace overcomes, Fear stops and runs, Dishonesty gets lost at sea. And then onto. If greed starts to tear us apart, Cruelty gets lost in the dark, Hate shrivels up and crumbles away.

Love and compassion are here to stay. Exactly. It's all true. My reading of that was not the best. No. So let's go into singing to make it even better. Gabby.

Okay. And again, this. We've got a lot to talk about, so. But this. This comes in at the end of a song.

Okay. Right.

So I'll just start. Peace overcomes, Fear stops and runs. Dishonesty gets lost at sea. If greed starts to tear us apart, Cruelty gets lost in the dark.

Hate shrivels up and crumbles away. Love and compassion are here to Stay.

Yay. That was beautiful.

Thank you.

That was so much fun.

Thanks for playing along. You know, people really appreciate. I've had people just like, oh, it's the first time I ever got up on stage or whatever.

And, you know, it's just nice. It's nice. Children, you know, adults, I mean, whatever. It's just always fun when you see somebody. It's a good feeling.

Participation. Yeah, that is key.

And then that goes along with just trying to, I guess, restore order with ourselves and working along with people as well within ourselves. But these are the kinds of things that are fully a part of a healing process, not only within ourselves, but with others as well.

Also, we do Bob Marley covers as well.

Man, I totally had Bob Marley in my head, which is so funny. Before you walked in, I was. I had three little birds, like so

many people around the world. You know what? That song, Three Little Birds. Don't worry.

Yep. About a thing.

Because every little thing is gonna be all right. It's something that I just love. You know, people sing that all over the world.

It helps reset.

Yes.

It's just. And it's such a great morning song as well.

And again, there's so much suffering going on.

You know, it's what we go through in our lives. There is. I mean, we were born in suffering. We're born out of the wombs that are going through their things while they're feeding us out to a world.

So there's, you know, where it is, this whole process and a whole cycle through generations that we have been seeing for as long as we are a thing.

And so it is refreshing to know that people such as yourself are out there going, when we go through our own things, we can still push through to try to help anybody else next to us.

I know I go through my thing and it gets rough sometimes, but you still have to keep pressing forward if you want to make sure that we're not adding the stress upon any others or suffering on others, because there's no other way that we can get through this. And the world's going to keep turning without us. She doesn't care. She's like, you want to add more stress to me? Are you laughable? Haha. Laughable.

It's like, well, I'd rather work with you, world. And she's like, yeah, you probably wouldn't want to. To do that too, huh?

So I will say real quick, just to add with the ceramic, this is a piece I did. It says, you're so beautiful.

Yes, I have seen this.

The reason You've seen this is because I've currently have them in 34 places, I think mostly in the Lansing area. Most of these places have helped out the Refugee Development Center. So it's a good, good guess.

If you walk into a place where you see this poster, you should thank them for helping out. The Refugee Development Center.

The Refugee Development center, yes, they're on my website.

You know, they've been around for I think, 23 years and we used to get over 600 refugees a year and they still need so much help. And so I do silent auctions to help just do some fundraising for them and promote them as an organization.

And actually if you go to my website, thetruthforachange.com you can scroll to the Refugee Development center, learn about them and even donate.

Okay. And we'll put that up as well as the tag in the tagline. We'll have all of your areas of many, many place that you have so people can come and visit.

And it's. That's great too to participate because we are a sanctuary area. Well, we use.

East Lansing is sanctuary. Lansing is safe Haven. Because sanctuary would have at this time resulted in a lack of funding.

And so, and so right now, refugee status, sanctuary status, excuse me, is no longer recognized. It's been. This is a recent decision by the federal Administration.

Okay.

Yes.

So well, to just go with the, I guess an overall idea of we are the state of Michigan as is is usually a place where many, many refugees can come and find a safe haven.

Unfortunately, I don't believe that we are taking in any more refugees in the United States of America at this time.

At this time, exactly.

But we have thousands of refugees in Lansing, people who came here typically.

And I grew up with many, you know, from East Lansing, so it's nothing but. And you going to msu, of course, know that this was a hub for international students, families and what.

And it's such a helpful area to be able to meet other people so you can learn how to develop your own area and networking with others and that helps with output towards others for the world and whatnot. But I know as a student growing up that that helped to put a different outlook on the world for me personally. Yeah. And it gave me.

Helped with being able to project differently and the receiving of where other people were coming from. Because no, not everybody's.

Nobody is just talking about everything that's going on in their life all the time because we're sitting there trying to figure out how to do algebra, you know, or whatever, or I did spend

a long time taking classes at LCC. I did. I went through the massage therapy program. I took the NIA dance class. I took African literature. I took so many different classes.

I was involved with a group called People for Positive Social Change.

Yes. Yeah.

And I lived near, real close. And so I just kept taking classes here and really it was, it was a beautiful experience.

So, yes, I am a star, an LCC star.

So with your experiences, that does help with the growth around here at LCC in Lansing, in the capital area, and then outward as well to our beautiful waters, our Great Lakes areas and beyond. So I appreciate you as the star that you are beyond even being an LCC star. But you are in your own right. You've got, I mean, it's.

You are definitely up there in the sky, hanging over the head, going across the sky and dancing your way across.

And I hope that this is going to be, this upcoming year will help radically with shifting not only our movements, with dance and thought, but with our healing process as not only within our city, but just as our nation and across the world. And I believe that you are definitely one of the caretakers, I guess you could say, for, for helping out with that kind of, that notion.

Yeah.

So I appreciate. Well, thanks you coming here today. You have anything else you wanted to share right now?

Well, a couple of things. So it's wild ecoscapes, works contractually with the drain commissioner is what it is. Yep.

And so caretaking the drains, we have 580 of them in Lansing. We're very blessed. And they actually work for purifying our water, but are plagued with garbage and invasive species, aggressive plants, et cetera.

And so it takes a village, you know. And I tell you what, there's microplastics going into our. Directly into our water all the time.

And it's wrappers, it's Styrofoam, it's wrappers, it's a lot of. It's plastic. It's a big problem.

You know, the other kind of wrappers, the not so good wrappers.

Exactly. Wrappers. Not wrappers. Oh, no going in the book. No, but, yeah, really good one. But anyway, so it feels really good to help with this, you know.

And we're also planting, you know, and weeding and watering and. Yeah, it's multifold. And I also garden. And so it's really nice to be able to, you know, to garden. And I've sort of reframed.

It's not like, oh, I love beets. Beets and I love each other because who's given who what into, you know, give credit, you know what I mean, to nature for sustaining us.

You know, so that's just kind of been something. Something new, newer.

The. The root vegetable is beets. Is what?

Beets and beets, yeah.

Oh, okay. Did you see beets?

Yeah, yeah, beets. Oh, you know, like carrots or whatever.

Okay. Yes, I love beets. I'm a big fan.

Beets love you too. They're full of iron and all kinds of goodness and.

Did you originally say bees?

No, I said beets.

You did say beets. Okay.

But I do mention bees in my

book too, you know, our wonderful pollinators,

our wonderful friends who are endangered along with everyone else at this point. Point I will say, you know, we are the dance, we are the song. We are worthy, we belong.

And I'm just quoting a couple things from my book that I feel are sort of central. What else? We are all gifted. We are all challenged. We are all blessed with unique opportunities to spread love and change the world. World.

Those are beautiful words.

Thank you.

I love how you string them together so well.

Thank you. Could I share one more thing?

I. Please, please do.

Okay. This is some of my favorite poetry from my book. Tree frogs call. Divine flowers rise from the vine. Beckoning butterflies Light dances through.

That is beautiful imagery.

Thank you.

So anyway, do you have any events that you are looking forward to coming up?

I do.

So when I vend my ceramic art, I also set up a silent auction for the refugee development center, and I will be doing that on November 14th and 15th next weekend at the Unitarian Universalist Church on the south side. Love Rose is performing at the Lansing Has Talent at Reno's east on Abbott road. And that's December 3rd, so that's a competition.

And I did recently submit a piece of poetry for a competition that. Who knows? Who knows? But I mean, you know, who knows? So that's exciting. What else?

Anything for next year planned? You are. Well, you're gonna.

It's coming up, isn't it?

You're doing a. Another. So you'll be working on your second edition of the Truth for a Change, that collection of poetry and art and song. So we.

We're going to be looking forward to that coming up here. Any new music as well that you'll be working on?

Yeah, yeah, I have. I have new poetry that's turning into songs and I just recently I've been writing more.

Okay.

And so we'll. We'll just see, you know, with that. And there was a couple of songs that Just didn't get included that. Can get included this time.

Excellent. It's always good to have stuff in the vault.

Yes.

All right. Well, Kathie, we are so grateful for you stopping in today for sharing.

We would love to have you back when you have more to share and more to spread around as far as our pieces is distribution goes. And I look forward to hearing more of your improving your beautiful music that you put together and more of your. Your poetry.

And I need to replace a piece of ceramic art that was.

We'll just say there are some people out there that didn't care that they were going through my things and lost my piece of yours that I had kept in my wallet. They didn't care. So I'm gonna have to replace my place. Mine. You guys should definitely check out Kathie's ceramic pieces.

She has a lot of magnets and just different pieces that are just so cute and so lovely, have little hearts on them or like little. Little notions of just saying peace even and just love. Beautiful things are the way that they should be. So I appreciate that.

And they are lovely little gifts that you. You can also give away as well. Great for holidays and whatnot.

Well, I will say the alternative holiday sale is full of local artists and peace and justice kind of organizations, et cetera, and it's just a wonderful event, so everyone should go.

All right, what is that event?

The Peace Education center puts on the alternative holiday sale every year for decades.

Oh, okay. All right, well, we'll look into that one as well then next weekend, which

is also my birthday, so.

Well, happy birthday, Kathie. Happy birthday.

And I hope your turn, your rotation around the sun brings you more joy and reciprocated strength, resilience, and healing that you are putting out there as well. I hope that comes back to you and in many fold.

Thank you.

Thanks you guys for joining us today with my special guest, Kathie Kuhn. This is Teri-Denise, and you have been listening to Ripper. Please have a great day and evening. We'll see you later.

Thanks for tuning in to RIPPER. You can find more about this and other LCC Connect podcasts at LCCconnect.com.