Shownotes
Join Sarah Peterson and her son Sylus on Enduring Grief as they explore the intricate impact of grief on family dynamics and the healing power of shared experiences. Sylus, a remarkable young man who has attended and now works with Camp Courage, shares how communal activities help grieving children realize they are not alone. Together, they discuss the unexpected ways grief strengthens some relationships while loosening others. Sarah and Sylus offer heartfelt insights and practical advice, particularly addressing the common guilt parents feel about changes in routines post-loss. Tune in to learn how normalizing emotions, keeping kids engaged, and fostering new rituals can create a supportive environment for healing. Don't miss this intimate and powerful conversation, a valuable opportunity for anyone seeking to understand the raw, transformative journey of living after loss.
Sarah Peterson is a licensed clinical social worker with over 13 years of experience in medical social work, hospice care and in private practice. As the founder of Clear Mourning, a nonprofit organization dedicated to shifting the culture of grief through innovation, support, and awareness, Sarah brings a deep understanding of grief and loss to her work. Her personal experiences, including the tragic loss of her two-year-old daughter and father, have profoundly shaped her mission to provide compassionate support to others navigating grief.
Sarah holds a Master of Social Work from Portland State University and has extensive experience in both private practice and nonprofit leadership. She also serves as an adjunct instructor at Portland State, runs her own private practice, and provides supervision for licensure candidates.
Follow us on Instagram: @ClearMourning
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Transcripts
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Sarah Peterson [:Welcome to enduring grief, healing practices and true stories of living after loss, where we dive into real honest conversations about the journey through grief and the support that makes it possible. I'm Sarah Peterson, an LCSW, and in this space, I bring my experience as someone who has walked this path alongside my work with my nonprofit, Clear Morning. Clear Morning is dedicated to shifting the culture of grief through support, innovation, and awareness. In our first episode, I'll share my personal story and how I've come to this work, why it matters so deeply to me, and how it might resonate with you. Whether you're navigating your own loss or standing by someone who is, this space is for you. Join me as we uncover the stories, the struggles, and the hope that lead to healing. Let's walk through this journey together. Welcome back, everybody.
Sarah Peterson [:This is our last episode of enduring grief. And today's guest is, well, one of the most special people in the world, especially to me. Today's guest is my son, Sylus. And we're gonna talk to you about what it was like for him as a kid, what he saw with his own grief experience as well as the grief experience of his entire family, what it meant for him to have essentially lost his role as brother for a period of time, and how he himself has transformed his grief through becoming a supporter to others. Welcome, my darling son.
Sylus Peterson [:Hi. Thank you.
Sarah Peterson [:I'm so glad you're willing to do this with me. And maybe willing is too strong of a word. Did I kinda make you come here and do this?
Sylus Peterson [:I'm willing.
Sarah Peterson [:Okay. Does it make you nervous? Yes. It makes you nervous. His face is turning 3 shades of pink right before my eyes. I'm trying to tell him there's nothing to be nervous about because this is a story, unfortunately, that we both know very well. So there's no real new information for us except for it's not often that Sylus and I sit and go pretty deep into the grief world. We just don't. And I don't think that's because it's not on our minds.
Sarah Peterson [:I do think it is more evidence of the 2 of us having learned to live with the reality of our lives and find a way to continue to cultivate a meaningful life. Do you agree with that? Yeah. Yeah? Is your life meaningful?
Sylus Peterson [:Of course.
Sarah Peterson [:Okay. So the reason why I think this is important, one, is because I do wanna pause first and acknowledge all the family in our lives who have done an incredible job of supporting us while they carry their own grief alongside us. My mom and dad and my in-laws and my sisters-in-law and I mean, one sister-in-law in particular was with me day after day, month after month walking around on those cold days just helping me learn to breathe again. I have cousins back east who are among the folks who would pick up the phone and just listen to me cry or listen to me scream and have still to this day been a source of such incredible comfort. Oh, Liz and Tina, thank you. And my aunts and uncles and elders of my family, you know, I just feel incredibly rich in the relationships that I have with my family and how they have just continued to show up and be a part of this process for me. And like I said, for most of them while at the same time processing their own loss of what it meant to lose Marley, what it meant to lose my dad, what it meant to lose me as the person I once was. And so I just wanna say thanks.
Sarah Peterson [:And Sylus is on the top of that list because he has been, at times, my only source of hope and strength, and I, as his mom, feel like worried, I guess, is the word that maybe I leaned on him a little too much for finding that source and strength. Did you ever feel that way?
Sylus Peterson [:No. Not really.
Sarah Peterson [:You never felt like you were in charge of my experience and to take care of me? No. No. Not really. Never took care of me. One time he was this was a few years ago, and I said, you know, Sylus, I'm worried. Do you just think about those years back then, and can you only just picture me lying in bed? And he's the sweetest. And he said, no, mom. Remember what you said? I just remember you doing your best.
Sarah Peterson [:And that's my son for you, folks. The kindest, sweetest, oldest soul I know. So I think this episode is important, one, as a honoring of his role in my life, my role in his life, what grief has done to our relationship, and also for folks who might be looking at the teenager in their house or the young child or adolescent in their house and wondering, am I doing it right? Are they talking about it enough? Are they not talking about enough? Are they talking about it too much? Am I too sad in front of my kid? Those are all really real questions, and I thought who better to answer those questions than a kid himself. So that's why I bring this episode. So, Sylus, on the day of the crash, you were only 7 years old. And does the memory of the crash ever come into your headspace? Do you ever think about that day, that morning?
Sylus Peterson [:You know, not usually, but sometimes.
Sarah Peterson [:And then what do you do? Do you push it out? Do you sit there for a second and think about it? Do you what do you do?
Sylus Peterson [:Just take a second. You know?
Sarah Peterson [:Just take a second. And can you feel the sadness, or does it feel like it was so long ago that it was just kind of a chapter of your life that you review at times?
Sylus Peterson [:It definitely was a large chapter in my life. And there is sadness with it, but it's not such an overwhelming dread that I can't go on and move forward.
Sarah Peterson [:Okay. That's good. And what do you think it was like? I mean, if you think about your sweet little self at 7 years old, and we've been looking at old videos lately, and, man, he was cute. When you look at that little guy, what do you think he was thinking when all this was going on?
Sylus Peterson [:Wow. I don't even really know. You know? Just what's next? What are we doing next? When's school?
Sarah Peterson [:Do you remember feeling scared? What were you most scared of?
Sylus Peterson [:I don't know. I was just hard to think all the way back, but I don't really know.
Sarah Peterson [:You knew you were scared, though? Were you worried about your mom and dad?
Sylus Peterson [:Yeah.
Sarah Peterson [:Yeah. What did you think? Like, are they gonna make it? Are they gonna stop crying? They're crying too much. They're yelling too much. They're like, what was that about? Can you remember? And, I mean, even if you went back a few years, it's not like the grief experience only lasted from the time that you were 7a half. You know? What were you worried about? What did we do?
Sylus Peterson [:I'd be worried, but like you said, there's always that support all around us. And my support was my therapist and then other things too. But I feel like whatever there was to talk about, I always talked about it with my therapist. And whatever worry there was, it just kind of washed away at some point.
Sarah Peterson [:Okay. Well, thank you. Yeah. Sylus' therapist, Linda. We love you. If you're listening, thank you. I remember the first time we went in there, it was probably just, like, 2 days after the crash, and it had been the first time for me. I know that I sat down and let myself close my eyes.
Sarah Peterson [:And so whilst I had this overwhelming sense of, like, okay. For this hour, I trust he's gonna be okay, and I can actually close my eyes. And I fell asleep in the chair in her office while she was working with Sylus because the profound sense of security and safety that that experience brought for me as his mom to know he was in the right hands and being cared for and that I was actually doing something to help him by even just getting him there was enough to let me rest. So, yeah, we can't thank her enough. Are there any significant memories you have of the harder times when things got really tough and how you went through it and how you came out on the other side? Like, is there an example you can think of?
Sylus Peterson [:One example is coming home after, and we just went to Marley's room and that was just really rough. And I was just really just always being at Mimi's because her grandma's because we couldn't be here.
Sarah Peterson [:Yeah. You remember coming home?
Sylus Peterson [:I do.
Sarah Peterson [:I hardly do. We went in her room?
Sylus Peterson [:You and I were in there, and then I went into our room.
Sarah Peterson [:After the hospital. Yeah. Yeah. After the hospital, we came, and then we got in the shower. That was terrible. Can you feel that depth right now of how terrible that was? Yeah. Okay.
Sarah Peterson [:Good. There is something powerful about knowing that it's still in there for you because to me as your mom and as a counselor, that tells me, like, there hasn't been this element of shoving it away and that it is in there and not just, like, Sylus' ability to tap into it just now and then move through it again on the other side, that's incredible. That's your grief journey that you've done. That ability to go deep just now and feel that feeling and then not have it overwhelm you, that's the evidence that you really have worked on this. Wow. Yeah. Did you know that? No. Are there any other memories over the last 8 years that stick out as far as your grief experience?
Sylus Peterson [:Just going Hawaii for that really long time and then having to rush home.
Sarah Peterson [:Oh, yeah. We had to rush home to take care of my dad. It's interesting because when I go back and think about you during those times and granted, you know, one of the crazy parts of the acute grief experience is that you just don't remember anything, and we've talked about that in other episodes. So it is tricky for me to go back and remember, like, concrete things that happened, but I don't remember you ever really losing it. No? Like, in grief, in anything, and, I mean, not until real recently when I was panicking Sylus because I was in his room cleaning it and touching his things because, oh my god, don't do that. And I made the mistake of saying, like, I need you to learn how to handle stress better. And in that moment, you lost it with me because you really did lay out all the things. I've lost my sister.
Sarah Peterson [:Life is hard right now. Busy in school. I'm working. I'm doing these things. I have another sister who isn't always nice to him. And I just thought, wow. It is all in there because you hold it together in such a way that it as your mom, it's easy to almost I don't know if forgets the right word but not acknowledge what you're carrying. Yeah.
Sarah Peterson [:Do you feel like you keep it in more or, like, it's just where it should be and this is how you cope? Is there an opportunity for you to share something about that strategy?
Sylus Peterson [:You know, it's just kinda there, but it's really just the triggering things that can you know, it comes out all at once when you don't really think about it when it's there, unless you're getting, like, you know, pushed around or plugged in your stuff.
Sarah Peterson [:Yeah. So that day, you know, if you I mean, that day wasn't that long ago. Do you think that part of your response was grief? Like, a like, when you said it all piles up and then it all pours out, is that grief still one of those things that is in that group of things that pours out of you at times? Do you feel still that strong pull toward her as your sister?
Sylus Peterson [:Yeah. I do. Same with Pa, especially when I look back and see all those little videos of us when we were kids.
Sarah Peterson [:Yeah. It looks like a whole different life, doesn't it? It was a whole different life. Way back in the day when I was working for the local hospice, I was supportive presence at a grief camp that they started here in town called Camp Courage. And at that point, I was just, like, administrative help and kind of a little bit boots on the ground helping out at the actual camp. And fast forward, once we had our own losses, Sylus became a camper. And so he went to Camp Courage. And one of the really interesting things about those couple summers that he was a camper there is, you know, he would do theater camp and mountain bike camp and sleepaway camp with his favorite cousin and all these very what you would think exciting things for a young boy to be doing.
Sarah Peterson [:Among those was Camp Courage. And at the end of the summer, when we reflected, he would always say that Camp Courage was his favorite. Yeah. Why do you think that is?
Sylus Peterson [:You know, there is a lot. Just the community, all the friends I made, how much fun I had, and also just being able to know that I wasn't the only one, especially coming into something so new and hard and different for me.
Sarah Peterson [:Yeah. Like, for once, you got to be more than the kid who lost his sister and grandpa?
Sylus Peterson [:Definitely.
Sarah Peterson [:And there's like do you think there's this this unspoken camaraderie between the campers that they get to be together and that's just a shared commonality.
Sylus Peterson [:Yeah. And out of all the years, not just going as a camper, it is always there.
Sarah Peterson [:Wow. And is there relief there for you? Is there comfort like, what's the word you would use for what that means for you?
Sylus Peterson [:Probably relief.
Sarah Peterson [:Yeah. Even these days. That's wonderful. So now using our nonprofit Claire Morning, we host this exact same camp. So for me, I was, like, supportive presence as it began, then I'm a mom bringing my kid to the camp, and now I'm the executive director of the organization who leads the camp. And my number 2, my number 2 main man is this guy right here. He does so much at the camp. And I just wonder, Salas, if you could talk about how working at the camp is part of your grief process.
Sarah Peterson [:Like, what is one thing that happens at camp that you know helps you in your grief outside of this camaraderie?
Sylus Peterson [:Well, there's 2 parts. The first part is just going to help out, and it's very interesting to see how the volunteers that we've got who that that we've gathered are grieving and not grieving as well.
Sarah Peterson [:The adults.
Sylus Peterson [:The adults, and they're just learning how to help with all the grieving kids. And I feel like they have a process too that they have to go through to help the kids that are grieving as well. And then the second part is being one of the counselors and helping out the kindergartners who have just recently lost somebody.
Sarah Peterson [:What does that do for your grief experience?
Sylus Peterson [:It definitely brings me a sense of, like, comfort to know that I'm able to help others in theirs, and it also brings me a little bit of reflection and being like, wow. This was me once.
Sarah Peterson [:Yeah. And look how far I've come.
Sylus Peterson [:Yeah. Definitely.
Sarah Peterson [:And I hope for the kids at camp, you know, one of, I think, the glorious things about having Sylus there is that they can look at him and say, okay. He did it. And every sad parent who's or caregiver who's dropping off these kids maybe can look at me or the other volunteers who have experienced loss and say, wow. They did it. Because I'll tell you what, guys. Some of these campers getting dropped off. They're, like, weeks out of their loss, and you see the look in the caregiver, you know, parent, grandparent's eyes who's dropping them off going. Kind of that feeling I described when I first sat down in Linda's office, like, holy cow.
Sarah Peterson [:I know my kid is in the right place doing the right thing right now, and I can finally relax or do the thing or close my eyes. And do you feel it sounds like that overwhelming sense of relief at check-in when people are dropping off their kids? Like, oh, thank goodness.
Sylus Peterson [:I definitely do. And same with pickup. They're like, wow. Look at what this has done already.
Sarah Peterson [:Already. A lot of these kids are, I think, really astounded by the fact that they're not alone. Yeah. So I guess the takeaway message there, if you can't send your kid to Central Oregon for Camp Courage, is maybe look around and see what activities kids are doing in your community to support the collective grief experience for youth and capitalize on that because there is especially for kids, I think this really deep sense of it is only me. Like, they don't have the perspective that adults have around, you know, loss happens, and people have been living with loss since the beginning of time. They can feel really siloed in their grief. And so if only they spend time with kids and if only the thing they get is the idea that they are not alone, I think it's, like, knock it out success.
Sarah Peterson [:What do you think, Sylus? Yeah. If you were on the stage, let's say we were doing a Camp Courage event and you were the main act, what would be the most important thing you would want, 1st, kids to know about grief? And second, what would you want adults to know about how to care for kids? So what would you want kids to know? They've suffered loss. They're listening to you. They see you as an inspiration. You've done this. You've walked this path. Here's the one thing I hope you guys know. Maybe that it you do learn to live with it.
Sarah Peterson [:It does get easier over your time. Your parents are gonna be okay. Like, many of those come to mind?
Sylus Peterson [:Yeah. Probably just always the big one. You're gonna be okay. You'll live.
Sarah Peterson [:Yeah. That's a big one because I don't think that people always know that. Especially when these kids are dealing with loss of a parent, I think it's even a little bit scarier because, obviously, primary caregiver is terrifying to lose. Yeah. But that would be the message.
Sylus Peterson [:And then for the parents, just give your kids something to do because the last thing they need is to just sit and think right now.
Sarah Peterson [:Keep them busy. And what about, like, that guilt that I described at the beginning around, you know, feeling like you as my young son had to take care of me? Did you didn't feel that?
Sylus Peterson [:No. I didn't. But I also feel like it depends on the kid and their personality and, you know, how much they can take and what they're going through right now and things like that. And I feel like it just all really depends on the circumstances.
Sarah Peterson [:Another thing I hear in my office sometimes from parents who are grieving the loss of a child, especially, is that when it comes to their living children, they feel guilty because they're eating pizzas, and they're not going out, and they're not doing the normal life activities that they always did. They're kind of, like, hunkered down. Maybe the TV's on more than it normally would be. Things like getting your homework done feel less and less important. That, like, version of survival mode is happening in the home. And then I hear those parents just beat themselves up because they aren't doing all the things. And do you think that kids care so much about that?
Sylus Peterson [:I don't think so. Unless they are feeling like they're getting left out, unless they feel like something's happening without them. But, no, not really, because sometimes it just feels really nice to just not really do anything.
Sarah Peterson [:And if you're with your parents or your caregivers, that's okay. Definitely. And do you remember those times where, like, we just didn't do stuff for a really long time? Yeah. And did it ruin you?
Sylus Peterson [:No. I thought it was kinda nice.
Sarah Peterson [:Because is it possible that you also needed that? Yeah. And is it possible as a parent, it's my job to kind of offer that to you even if you can't articulate it? Definitely. Okay. So parents who are out there wondering if they are doing it well enough because their life just got into survival mode, set that down. Like, just practice setting it down for a moment, a breath to say I'm doing my best. I'm doing my best. Here's Sylus in your ears when I said, do you only remember me lying in bed and him saying, I only remember you doing your best. That's what your kids are gonna remember because you are teaching them how to do this grieving experience, which means we spend time in grief.
Sarah Peterson [:That's what it means. Did you ever think like, oh, my mom cries too much in front of me? No. Did it ever scare you when I was crying?
Sylus Peterson [:Just at the very beginning because it's, you know, just it was so new, and I just had no idea what was happening. But now I just had to realize that everybody cries, and it's a normal thing. And something tragic has happened, and everybody's bound to cry.
Sarah Peterson [:Did you ever find yourself feeling judgy toward anybody about the grief experience and what they did either with us or with their own experience?
Sylus Peterson [:No. Not at all. Never.
Sarah Peterson [:In one of my last episodes, I confessed to being a judgy griever. So it's just kind of interesting. I'm glad you didn't get that trait.
Sylus Peterson [:I guess I do kinda judge a little bit, especially with pets.
Sarah Peterson [:That was my thing.
Sylus Peterson [:Yes. Yes. Yes.
Sarah Peterson [:I'm like, don't put me in a group with somebody who lost their dog, and then Marlys is like, the dog can be somebody's child. That's like their child to them. And I'm like, okay. That's fine. And then Dean went on and on about his dead bush, which was really funny. But in this in the end, I thought I do judge people's grief through this lens of hierarchy. So say more about the pet thing.
Sylus Peterson [:I definitely used to think that, but then I just, my boy.
Sarah Peterson [:Oh. Yeah. The big brown boy that's sitting here at our feet, hopefully not gonna bark. Feels like that would be deep grief.
Sylus Peterson [:Definitely.
Sarah Peterson [:So there's been some progress.
Sylus Peterson [:I guess. So
Sarah Peterson [:I guess I have something to learn from you. Maybe if this dog wasn't 2 inches from my face every minute of every day, I would have more sympathy for pet loss. I don't know.
Sylus Peterson [:He just loves you.
Sarah Peterson [:He loves me so much. No. I do have sympathy for pet loss. I think though that I still have not moved through what the hierarchy of grief means for me, and I do firmly and solidly believe your grief is the worst because it's yours no matter what you're grieving. And if we can just be conscious of comparing griefs
Sylus Peterson [:Definitely.
Sarah Peterson [:I think that's the ticket
Sylus Peterson [:Yeah.
Sarah Peterson [:On both sides. Like, I don't want you to compare any of your loss to mine, and I need to not compare my loss to somebody who's lost their dog. Right? Yeah. Not helpful. Not helpful. So, Sylus, through the grief experience, like, do you feel like it helped make certain relationships stronger and closer, certain relationships further apart and more strained? Like, did you experience any of that either with your peers or with the adults in your life?
Sylus Peterson [:I feel like just being so young, I didn't really have that many, like, super close friends, and I was just really with my family a bunch. Especially with my cousins in town, I would just always be with them. And it was great, and it just, you know, build up those relationships at times, and it can also bring down some because, you know, we're different. You know? They didn't just lose a sister.
Sarah Peterson [:How about with adults? Like, any adults in your life where the relationship shifted, got closer and stronger?
Sylus Peterson [:Yeah. Definitely. And some of the adults that are further from me that I don't talk to as much, I lost connections with. And then the adults that I spend most of my time with, you know, it's just I'm with them all the time, like, they get stronger.
Sarah Peterson [:Yeah. So as adults who might be listening to this podcast asking themselves, like, what can I do to support the adolescent or the youth in my life who's suffered a loss? What can they do? You've said one thing, which is, like, keep kids busy. And are there any other tips you would give? Like, here's other things you can do or not do so that the relationship with your grieving youth gets stronger instead of more disconnected. What can adults do to support kids outside of keeping them busy?
Sylus Peterson [:Yeah. When I said that, I just I didn't that was just like a.
Sarah Peterson [:No. I get it. I mean, we don't need a bunch of sad kids sitting there thinking about their sadness. Right? They don't have the tools to mitigate and strategize their way out of that, and that's what I heard. So, like, yeah, don't not too much time by yourself thinking about the hard stuff. Like, be there in a supportive way so that you can help your youth griever mitigate, negotiate, and strategize their way out of the depths. What can adults do? Who's a really special adult in your life, and what have they done? Like teachers. Teachers.
Sarah Peterson [:Katie Hartley.
Sylus Peterson [:A lot of people definitely just sharing their empathy and sympathy with you and trying to connect with you on that kind of level and to make sure that you're okay, but to not push you too hard.
Sarah Peterson [:Okay. So there we go. There's the ticket. So checking in. Mhmm. Hey. Are you okay? Yeah. What do you need? Do you wanna talk? Yeah.
Sarah Peterson [:And then believing you and your answers.
Sylus Peterson [:Definitely.
Sarah Peterson [:But the checking in piece, because it's easy to think kids are doing fine because they do have an incredible ability, a lot of them, to really set this down and live the other parts of their life in a way that might look like they're not struggling. And we don't know that. We don't know what's going on in their sweet little minds. So pausing, not assuming, hey. Look at this kid. He's laughing hard at school. He's doing okay. He has friends.
Sarah Peterson [:And assuming that that grief component has just dissipated for them is important. And the only way we can find out is by checking in, so not being scared to check-in.
Sylus Peterson [:Yeah.
Sarah Peterson [:Okay. Do you remember any particular check ins that were great and meaningful to you?
Sylus Peterson [:Just my weekly therapy.
Sarah Peterson [:Weekly therapy appointments were good?
Sylus Peterson [:Those are great. And then, also, just teachers, you know, after taking a long break in 2nd grade and then coming back, it was great to just have somebody, you know, to make sure that I was okay and doing alright.
Sarah Peterson [:Yeah. How about our relationship? It's only gotten better. He can't even say it with a straight face. But do you feel like there's something that you and I share having been in the car together that day that is just between us forever or no? Yeah. Yeah. And that's not to say that your dad and your grandma and your grandpa, everybody that, like, they all have their own individual also experience and relationship with you, Sylus. But I do think that there's something that ties us together in a way that neither of us wants. Let's be honest, and yet there it is.
Sarah Peterson [:Yeah. So you're saying I'm your favorite person?
Sylus Peterson [:Certainly.
Sarah Peterson [:You know, Sal, one of the questions I grapple with a lot is, how many kids do you have? Like, when people ask me that, I can kinda feel my blood pressure rise, and I don't know always what the best answer is. I obviously don't wanna discount how many kids I have, and I also need to read the room. How do you answer that question? Like, I'm sure when you meet people, they're like, honey, honey, honey, brothers or sisters? Do you ever get that question?
Sylus Peterson [:Yeah. Mhmm.
Sarah Peterson [:And what's your classic answer?
Sylus Peterson [:You know? Yeah. Of course, I do. You know, I got 2 sisters.
Sarah Peterson [:And do people ever push back and try and get more information out of you, or is that usually good enough?
Sylus Peterson [:Yeah. They do. It's also just kind of like whatever comes out first. You know? Oh, yeah. Marley says her name's Lua. Oh, yeah. Marley and Lua. You know, it's just
Sarah Peterson [:And you just kinda try to ride the wave? Yeah. Okay. Does everybody in your circle know that you've lost your sister? Like, all your friends, all your teachers, all the people that you like, he's big in student council. He's got a hand in everything. He does a great job at work. Does everybody know?
Sylus Peterson [:I think so. It takes a minute because I don't wanna just, you know, put that on somebody that I just met. You know? But, like, some people who are new in my life, they'll find out. You know? But it's just trying to find the right time. Like you said, reading the room.
Sarah Peterson [:Yeah. How do you decide when to let people know?
Sylus Peterson [:Just if something like it comes up in conversation, you know, I'm just gonna say it again, reading the room. That's always a really big one. And, you know, if they just ask.
Sarah Peterson [:And do you tell them the whole story, or do you say that she died? Or what's your
Sylus Peterson [:It just kinda depends. You know? I could just say that, yeah, my sister passed away 7 - 8 years ago. Wow.
Sarah Peterson [:I know.
Sylus Peterson [:Wow. Or I just you know, if it's the right moment, I'll just say the whole thing.
Sarah Peterson [:Okay. And then when people in your life, like family I know some our family is pretty open. Does it feel okay when people talk about Marley? Yeah. Ask you about her? Mhmm. And do you have concrete memories of your time with her?
Sylus Peterson [:Yeah. And it definitely helps to, you know, go back and look at the videos, and I love the pictures that we have around. But, yeah, I definitely do.
Sarah Peterson [:Okay.
Sylus Peterson [:One of my favorite memories is when our nanny, Missy, was over here, and me and Marilee just buried her stuffed animals right here. And it was just so much fun because, you know, we were just kids Yeah. Lying around. And, you know, when I babysat for Missy the other night, I talked about it with her and I'm like, do you remember this? And she was like, no. But then I showed her a picture, and she was like, oh my gosh. Yeah.
Sarah Peterson [:That's awesome. I love that. Is there anything anybody does or says to you about the grief, about the loss that's really uncomfortable? Not really. Nobody's ever said something that you're like, oh gosh. I hope I never get that question again, or I hope nobody ever says that again.
Sylus Peterson [:I feel like there have been, but I'm not really able to recall. But I also I try not I don't really think I surround myself with people who would even come close to asking those questions.
Sarah Peterson [:So you've so far given us permission to check-in, to talk about memories Mhmm. To give ourselves as parents or caregivers a break and do what we can do in the moment, and you'll be alright. And do you think that I don't know how to put this, but, you know, I think a lot of us are it's easy to say as we watch kids just sort of march on with their life that they'll come to me if they need to. Is there a part of that that's true, or do you think really we have to push a little bit to dig around?
Sylus Peterson [:You know, you definitely kinda have to poke around, but it's just really important not to push too hard because then they don't feel comfortable, and it takes a long time to build up that trust. And then if you just push and pry and poke too much, then that trust is broken. And they think, wow. They just really wanted to get this out of me for you know, why why do they want this?
Sarah Peterson [:Did that ever happen to you?
Sylus Peterson [:A few times, but it's okay.
Sarah Peterson [:I worked through it. I know you did, but it did happen to you. Yeah. Like adults just pushing and pushing and pushing? Yeah. Okay. So don't push. Read the room. Yeah.
Sarah Peterson [:Got it. The holidays are coming. Right? Yep. How do you feel about our holiday situation?
Sylus Peterson [:This is gonna be a new one.
Sarah Peterson [:It is gonna be a new one. But, like, if we look back at the last years, what was the hardest part about the holiday season in this family?
Sylus Peterson [:Just having that loss, that absence of a joyous occasion and just a fun family time or missing somebody 2 people so special. It's hard, but, you know, something that we've adapted to.
Sarah Peterson [:And so, like, we used to be the family that, you know, went up in the woods and cut down the Christmas tree, and it was fun. And I would make cookies and treats, and we'd be just dancing around to the music. And
Sylus Peterson [:It's definitely changed.
Sarah Peterson [:It's definitely changed. Yeah. Is that okay with you? Do you understand it?
Sylus Peterson [:You know, it's changed a lot, but I'm just okay with it. Like, it's okay. I don't mind. I don't really need a freshly cut tree that we're gonna have to clean up and deal with. And, you know, I like our little easy Christmas.
Sarah Peterson [:You do like our easy Christmas? And if you listen to another episode, which I think was last week or let's see. It came out not too long ago. It's on the mark days and traditions, and we talk about the difference between traditions and rituals. And I think what we did was take all of our traditions and adapt them into what are now rituals, which aren't ideal in the sense that I don't participate in decorating the Christmas tree. It's just really hard for me, and I don't do it. Yeah. Is that okay with you?
Sylus Peterson [:I mean, it's okay.
Sarah Peterson [:I don't mind taking truth. Say the truth.
Sylus Peterson [:I am. I am. I don't mind taking on the whole thing. I think it's fun for me, and I'm kinda stingy with it. So the more for me. Okay. Perfect.
Sarah Peterson [:But I wanna call out, like look. I don't do a great job as mom as, like, missus Claus Christmas mom, and my kids are okay. Yeah. They've had to adapt with me because I have to live in this reality in the most meaningful way, and that to me does not include anymore carrying over some of the exact same traditions we did when we were a whole family. And now what we're hearing too from Sylus is that the new rituals, which include a fake Christmas tree and solo greedy decorating of the tree, have become the tradition, and there's comfort there. Yeah. So if you're the parent, if you're the caregiver, if you're the adult in a youth grievers life, give yourself a break because they're gonna be okay. And, you know, the other thing, like, especially marching into the holidays or any days, like, what must you do? Right? Like, as a mom, I must in my mind, this isn't for everybody, but I must have a Christmas tree.
Sarah Peterson [:Okay. How am I gonna do that? What effort am I willing to put in to get the Christmas tree? What's gonna work for me? I must have a Christmas tree. So I'm keeping one foot in both worlds, one as the grieving mom and one as the mom of living children because they need a Christmas tree. Okay. Great. Got the tree. What else must I do? Must have some presents under the tree. Great.
Sarah Peterson [:I can do that. And, again, I will also shop for Marley. We do it together, and I spend not maybe exactly the same as I do on my living children, but I try to keep it pretty even as if Marley were here, which is an awesome thing to do. Like, if you're a supporter and you know somebody who's lost a child and you get the other kids' presents, I would eat like, let's say you spend $20 on the living children, $20 $20. I would say throw in another 20 and acknowledge the absence of the child that's not there, like and donate it. Donate it to a local kid who needs something. Give it to a cause that feels close to your heart because money is not everything. That's not about this.
Sarah Peterson [:Like, you could draw a picture. And if you draw a picture for 2, draw a picture for the 3rd just to acknowledge that they are missing. When I get Christmas cards that include Marley's name, I can't even tell you what that means to me. It means so much to me. And when when I can get people to help me give gifts on behalf of Marley to kids in need, man, does that feel good? Because only a few times a year can I pretend in this way that she's here, and we turn that into part of our own ritual now too?
Sylus Peterson [:Mhmm.
Sarah Peterson [:That's a new ritual, and we we do good with that. It's powerful. We get really good stuff, and we wrap it up, like, beautifully just like as if we were giving it to Marley. We pour our hearts into it.
Sylus Peterson [:It's really heartwarming.
Sarah Peterson [:Mhmm. So, you know, as a supporter, what way can you continue to acknowledge this person who's no longer there? And as caregiver for a youth griever, where can you both be gentle with yourself? You don't have to recreate the exact same situation and experience you used to have when everybody was there. You can just do parts of it. Because what I'm hearing from Sylus is that kids get it. Yeah. Is that what I'm hearing from you? Mhmm. Kids get it? Mhmm. Okay.
Sarah Peterson [:Well, like I said at the beginning, Sylus has been, at times, my only source of hope and strength because I never had the chance or the opportunity or could ever consider sort of giving up altogether on life because I have this beautiful son. And I'm relieved to know that that didn't translate to him as him taking care of me, and I hope that he felt cared for and loved. I think he did.
Sylus Peterson [:Definitely.
Sarah Peterson [:And the beautiful part about Sylus is his incredible compassion, which I hope you can hear through this episode because he has been able to walk the path right alongside all of us in this family and do it with incredible courage and strength. And what we heard from him today is that he wasn't alone. There were many things that allowed him the space to do that. 1, a counselor, 2, a community of family who continued to check-in on him, of friends who continue to check-in on him, school who continued to check-in on him, camp being with other kids in a grief situation was profound and incredible in his journey. And hashtag best mom ever certainly didn't hurt. Right? I tease. I tease. Well, Sylus, you know I love you very, very much, and you are continuing to be a source of inspiration and hope and strength for me and for all the people all the people in your life.
Sarah Peterson [:I know it, and especially those campers at Camp Courage. I mean, they look up to you in ways you'll never even know or understand, I think. And I know that this podcast recording made you uncomfortable, and I'm really proud and grateful that you were willing to do it anyway.
Sylus Peterson [:Thank you. I just it's okay.
Sarah Peterson [:Are you glad you did it? Yeah. Are you gonna share it on your TikTok?
Sylus Peterson [:We'll see.
Sarah Peterson [:Oh, I haven't earned a spot on his TikTok yet. What do I need to do to get on your TikTok? We'll see. A cuter outfit.
Sylus Peterson [:I guess so.
Sarah Peterson [:Thank you, Sylus.
Sylus Peterson [:Thank you.
Sarah Peterson [:I love you.
Sylus Peterson [:Love you.
Sarah Peterson [:So, yeah, this has been the 1st season of enduring grief, healing practices and real stories for living after loss, and I just wanna say that this was one of the most incredible experiences of my professional life. I have completely and totally enjoyed doing this and putting this out there and recently had a friend say, you know, hey. Why are you doing this? Is it for marketing? Are you getting paid? And I'm like, I guess neither. I'm doing this because I know how thirsty I was for this information when my grief journey began, and I couldn't find it. And I think there's a lot of really valuable books and podcasts, and there's camaraderie in hearing the grief stories of other people. And I'm often left after that going, now what? So I hope with this podcast, you were able to find some sort of tangible day to day. Here's the story. Here's the situation.
Sarah Peterson [:Here's what people are really saying, and here's how you as a greever can handle it, or here's how you as a supporter can handle it ideas. I never wanna pretend like I'm the expert on your grief ever. You are the expert on your grief. I hope you are stopping, pausing long enough to figure out what you need. And I hope through this podcast, you've found ways that you can talk about it. That's my goal. Thank you so much for being on this journey with me. I hope you'll share this with people who are suffering grief or supporters who are feeling maybe lost or not so confident in their ability to support in what they're doing.
Sarah Peterson [:And everybody who's been on this journey with me, the podcast journey, yes, and the last 8 years, There's no way I could ever name them all. And I just hope that in your heart, if you're hearing this, couldn't do it without you, and your support has pushed me and propelled me to this point. Thank you. Thank you for joining us on enduring grief, healing practices and true stories of living after loss. We hope today's conversation brought you comfort, understanding, or simply the assurance that you're not alone in your grief. If you found this episode helpful, please share it with someone who might need to hear it and subscribe as a way to stay connected. Until then, take care of yourself, and remember, there's no right or wrong way to grieve. You have the freedom to mourn in the way that feels true to you.
