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Curious Instead of Furious: Creating Safety in Overwhelming Moments

What does it look like to care for someone well when their emotions feel bigger than the moment?

In this episode of Neighbourly, Shannon sits down with Alicia Freeman, a CareImpact trainer whose journey through foster care, adoption, and trauma-informed learning has shaped the way she understands safety, presence, and compassion.

Alicia shares why trauma care is not only for foster and adoptive families, but for everyone, everywhere, especially those who want to care well in their homes, churches, and communities.

Together, Shannon and Alicia talk about what it means to stay curious instead of furious, how to respond when someone is overwhelmed, and why sometimes the most loving thing we can offer is not a solution, but our steady presence.

In this conversation, Alicia reflects on a recent training at a pregnancy resource centre, where a moment of disagreement became a deeper opportunity for listening, humility, and shared learning. She also offers practical ways to help children, youth, and adults feel safer when they are dysregulated or overwhelmed.

This episode is a gentle reminder that care does not have to be perfect to be powerful. It just has to be present.

In This Episode

• Why trauma-informed care matters beyond foster and adoptive families
• How curiosity helps us move from defensiveness to empathy
• What it means to create emotional safety in a room
• Why the urge to fix can get in the way of true care
• Practical ways to support someone who is overwhelmed
• How churches can care well without rushing people toward easy answers
• Why presence, patience, and dignity matter in the messy middle

A Small Step This Week

Think of one person in your life who may be carrying more than you can see.

Before offering advice, try starting with curiosity. Ask a gentle question. Listen a little longer. Resist the urge to fix it too quickly.

Sometimes the most neighbourly thing we can offer is simply to stay present.

Time Stamps

04:17 Starting foster care and adoption journey

07:41 Training at the Pregnancy Resource Center

10:57 Navigating overwhelming emotions workshop

14:25 Staying confident and calm during discussions

17:27 Helping people find their personal why

23:13 Importance of Curiosity and Empathy

27:16 The power of just being present

29:43 Role of Church in Trauma Care

Guest Links

careimpact.ca/alicia

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Offering just my presence and my quiet,

even my presence in their emotions. You know, when somebody else is sad and

I'm willing to just sit in that sad with them and not

try to tie it up with a pretty ribbon and find an

answer or spiritually lead them to a place that

they're just not ready to go to be willing to just sit in that

and trust that, you know, God's going to lead them to the hope,

to the clarity that they might need. But I don't have to do.

What does it look like to care for someone? Well, when their emotions feel bigger

than the moment? Because most of us want to help. We want

to be steady for the people around us, our family, our friends, our neighbors

and our churches. But when someone is overwhelmed,

hurting, or reacting in ways we don't fully understand,

it's so easy to rush in with answers, advice, or a quick fix.

Hey, everyone, I'm Johan. Welcome to Neighbourly, a podcast about ordinary

people showing extraordinary care. Today, Shannon sits down with

someone who is no stranger to neighborly, Alicia, a Care Impact

trainer whose own journey through foster care, adoption and trauma

informed learning has shaped the way she helps others understand

safety, presence, and compassion. But this isn't

just a conversation about training. It's about a bigger question.

How do we become the kind of people who can stay curious, offer

safety, and sit with someone in the messy middle without needing to

fix everything? Let's listen in and join Shannon and Alicia at

the table. Alicia, I'm so glad that you

are on the podcast today. You are not new to this

podcast, you've been on a couple times. And Alicia, we

love her at Care Impact. She's such a core part of this team. And

I can't wait for our listeners to hear more of what

you do and your heart for it. But before we get into that,

we always start with the same question. Growing up, who was

a neighbor that you will never forget? Yeah,

this question was actually a little tough for me. And then I listened to the

episode from last week and I was like, oh, my answer is the same as

hers. So I grew up in

a very rural community, so I felt like my

concept of neighbors was not like a lot of other people. People like my neighbors

were not right next door. It was a little ways away. So I don't feel

like we necessarily did a lot with, like, our neighbors, the people that

were, you know, next door to us, because really it was like a next field

away. Right. It was a very agricultural community. But what

did come to mind is that I went to A rural

community, public school. So really, everybody at my school

were like the people in my neighborhood, which was

large, but in a rural community like that. It was really neat to have

all of those families come together in that one place where

basically all the kids in the community went to that same

school. And so I remember, you know, like, at Christmas

time, there'd always be, like, the Christmas concert, and then all the families would be

there. And because it was like a rural farming community, it was

like moms and dads and siblings. Like, everybody was there. Even

when we had, like, middle of the day events, like, we would have, like, a

school picnic at the end of the year, and the

families would be there. And so, like, looking back now, I realize how unique

that was. It really did give me that sense of neighborhood when I was

at my school every day. Like, all the kids were living similar lives to

me. So, like, we were all coming from these farms

in the community and we kind of lived that same lifestyle.

Yeah. Oh, that's beautiful to think about growing up with

other families and living life with other people

in that similar season of life, I'm sure is just. Yeah. So special

to think back on. Well, I'm really excited to get

more into this episode and really hear your heart,

because we're talking a lot about some of the trainings that we do,

trauma care training, relational care training, and you

are a big part of that. And so I'd love to hear what led you

to even want to facilitate trainings like this and

why is it important to you? Well, my husband and I chose

to begin building our family through adoption as well

as providing foster care for vulnerable children in our community. And

so when we first began our journey of foster care and adoption, we

were very young, like in our early 20s. And some of the first

children that God brought into our home were significantly

challenging children. They had significant needs due to, you know,

things like prenatal exposure to alcohol or drugs or

major attachment disruptions, exposure to domestic violence

and abuse, things like that. So as we attempted to care for these children, we

quickly started to realize that many of the traditional parenting techniques that

we were seeing other parents using or that we had been raised with

were really not as effective as we hoped or possibly even made

things worse sometimes. So we knew that we needed help.

And so we started to seek out that education and community among

other Christians who were fostering and adopting at the time.

And through that, we were invited to join a few of the people in taking

a training called Trauma Competent Care Through a

Trauma Free World. And then at the same time, we also started

attending the Replanted conference in Chicago each

year. And through those experiences, we began to learn more about what it was

that our children really needed from us and how to help them

feel safe and experience healing and

why their behaviors were sometimes really baffling to us.

So this gave us so much hope and clarity in our

parenting journey, and I'm just so grateful that we were given those

opportunities to learn. And so the more that I learned, the

more that I wanted to be able to share this information with other families

and not just for foster and adoptive families. What we really started to realize

was that this information is really for everyone everywhere. And that's

what I tell people about trauma care training. I really believe that

it's for everyone everywhere, especially people in the church,

because trauma is so common in today's culture and for the church,

as we want to come in and impact and interact with

people who are hurting, what we want is to be equipped to do

that in ways that are truly helpful and healing.

Yeah. Thank you so much for bringing it back to your

story and where that. That really started for you.

I think there's a couple other episodes where you share a little bit more about

what that journey has been like specifically, but I love where you brought it, because

as you were talking, I was thinking about those who may not be,

you know, adoptive parents or foster parents listening and thinking, well, how

does. How does this kind of content, you know, how would these kinds of trainings

apply to me? But I think you. You said it right there. It is

for everyone, for everywhere. And especially as believers

in the church who were wanting to welcome in hurting

people broken, lost, and needing to

create an environment that is

emotionally and mentally safe for people

who've experienced a lot. Is training like this is so important?

So recently, you facilitated a training at a

pregnancy resource center, and I'd love to hear a little bit

about just what was that like walking in?

What did the day feel like when you arrived and when you got there?

Yeah. So this particular training, the

Pregnancy Resource center, is really close to my heart, because

this center is located in our small town, and I know

so many of the people who are investing their time and their energy and their

resources in this ministry. And I know that this center is also

serving a vulnerable population that is really close to my

heart as well, especially as a foster parent. So I'm just so grateful

for the way that they have come alongside these young women and men and

families to try to build in upstream supports.

So this center has been so eager to host me over the past couple

of years and inviting me into their space to train their staff and

volunteers and just to provide a space where they can talk and learn

and really work to understand their clientele better.

So when I came into the room, I really was walking into a space where

there were several people that are very familiar and dear

faces who might feel comfortable with, which was really nice. My friend

worked to help me set up, and we ended up using a couple of

diaper boxes to set up my computer so that it would be, like,

at the right height for my presentation because we didn't have quite the right

size of table or stand. And so that was kind of funny because I thought,

you know, how fitting is this that as we talk about this together, I've got

my computer propped up on diaper boxes that have been donated

by these generous community members at the Pregnancy Resource Center.

So I'd say everyone came in feeling pretty light and friendly. They were chatting

and pulling out snacks and exchanging hugs and conversation. That

kind of environment, it was. It was really comfortable. Yeah.

When you're getting ready for these kinds of trainings and

you're thinking about prior experiences of it, what have

you learned? Helps you to really facilitate a learning experience that kind

of goes deeper and goes beyond some of that

surface level. I think one of the key aspects

is just, you know, making sure that as we all

come into that space and particularly as I, you

know, begin my presentation, that they can really see me

as another human being. That sounds funny, but,

you know, that I'm not just standing there as the trainer, that I'm here with

them. And so often what I try to present near the beginning is, you

know, a little bit about my story and what's brought me here. And really trying

to help people understand that when I'm in the training room with them, I'm here

to learn alongside and that I really want to hear from them as

well, because there's a lot of people that I end up, you know,

training who hold a lot of pieces of knowledge and. And some that

I don't have. So it's really beautiful when we're able to

step into that conversation and end up learning from each other. But I feel

like it's really important for participants to feel that comfort that

I want you to share. I want you to even disagree or

have different opinions. And let's talk it through. Let's figure out what

are your questions, what are your thoughts, or what are your learning experiences

that would contribute to this conversation. Yeah, I'd love to hear some

of those more specific moments that stood out to you, but

to maybe give our listeners a little bit of context, in a nutshell, what

was some of the content that you were training or sharing with this

group? Just kind of generally speaking. Yeah.

So my content at this training was called navigating

overwhelming emotions. And so we were really talking

about, first of all, what do we do with our own overwhelming

emotions? So when we are having overwhelming emotions, what's

going on in our brains and our bodies, our nervous

systems? What might we be experiencing on a holistic level?

And then how does that impact our ability to

interact with other people around us? So, really,

even though I was definitely coming to serve

as far as helping to equip them in navigating

overwhelming emotions with other people, but what we ended up talking

about a lot is our own overwhelming emotions. And I think

the more that we understand what to do with our own emotions, the more

compassion and empathy that we have for other people's big

emotions. And it just helps us to have better clarity as to,

like, what approach is needed here. If I know what works for me when I'm

feeling overwhelmed and I'm comfortable with my own

emotions, then it really does help me to be able to

enter into somebody else's experience and not feel easily

threatened or triggered by that. Yeah, that's so good. I think

about how helpful that would be for me.

And I'm not even a parent. I'm just thinking about daily life, and

that's so good. So I'd love to hear then, what were some of those

moments from. From that training that really stayed with you

of what people were learning and what was just coming to mind for

them? So one of the moments that really stayed with me from this

training was when one participant was really digging into the

content and asking some really good and hard questions about our

emotions and how God sees our emotions and what it

looks like to understand our emotions in light of the gospel and

the Holy Spirit's work in our lives and sanctifying us, all of

that. And really, she was gently but persistently

disagreeing with the approach that I was taking to the content.

And it was just that sort of moment where you feel this tension build.

Right. But one of the things that I love most about the time that I've

spent learning about trauma and its impact on people is that

it's really helped me to learn how to exercise curiosity.

A phrase that we often repeat is curious instead of furious.

And this little line really is so helpful in practicing

Active listening and offering those felt safety

strategies. And honestly, just this posture of humility.

So it was really encouraging because I felt like I was able to really just

lean into this participant's questions and perspectives and, and

open up conversation and allow the rest of the group to provide their

feedback as well. That's a great example of. We

talked about this on our last episode a lot about remaining

curious and related to making assumptions about others,

but just that same concept of maybe easy. You're probably

navigating your own emotions in that moment and thinking,

okay, pause, let me hear where this person's coming from. Let me really ask

good questions to help you know them learn, but also

yourself learn. And yeah, that's such a great a learning

opportunity, I think, for everybody. So, Alicia, as you were

going through that moment, what are some of the things you noticed either

in the room or in yourself as you were

walking through that with that participant? Yeah,

in myself, I really sense this, like, urgency to

try to fix it, you know, talk more, explain more, which is so

often what we feel when we sense some kind of threat to our own

perspective or our own experience. But I also sense this

calmness and confidence that was really neat to feel. I still really

think of myself as an amateur on all these topics

and on training, so I feel like I can easily be derailed by someone

going off topic or. Or asking a hard question that I wasn't

anticipating. But this time, I really just sensed this deep, grounded

assurance that I needed to lean into this and that the content would speak for

itself. And one of my fellow Care Impact trainers, Amy Jo,

always reminds me, you can trust the content, and I really

find that to be true. When we know that what we're presenting is

valuable and trusted and wisely sourced, we can present confidently

and really rest in that knowledge. So, yeah, as

I resisted that urge to jump in and fix it all, I was

able to ask questions and really listen to this participant and

understand her perspective and allow others to be part of that

learning moment and just let the conversation play out a little bit. And I

felt like everyone else really leaned in then as well, which was so

beautiful to watch. And I think we were all pretty invested at that

point in figuring out, like, how do these pieces fit together?

Wow. Yeah, that's so good, because it makes me think about

when we lean into the messy

moments or maybe even think of it of, like, wrestling with God a little bit

of, like, trying to work out our faith and these concepts and

God, how does this fit and how does this make sense that is

actually like where so much growth happens. And that's really what it sounds like was

kind of happening in that moment. Why do you think that

moment itself really mattered? Yeah, it

just, it turned into such a beautiful piece of the training that really

helped us all to engage on a much deeper level.

And I really felt like we were able to learn together and see how the

content actually brought us full circle versus just

me standing up there and talking the whole time or claiming to have all the

answers. And. And what I noticed was that everyone really started exploring,

experiencing what we were talking about, overwhelming

emotions. So as they process the content in more personal

ways, I think we really experienced something special that, that

day that, that just held a lot more weight than it would have if we

hadn't been willing to kind of dig into those harder

questions. Thanks for sharing more about that.

In that specific training or even if you think back on some of the

others that you have done, what have you learned that it can look

like to really help somebody feel safe when they're coming into

this learning experience? Maybe not knowing totally what to expect

if, you know, their pastor signed them up or their boss

signed them up for this thing. What are some of the things that you've

learned to help people as they come into the room?

Yeah, one of the things that I always like to do at the beginning

is really help people find their own personal why

for being there. People feel safer when they feel like

they're not expected to all be coming for the same reason or with the

same story. And so to try to, you know, to share my why for

being here, but then really opening it up and giving them a

chance to actually, you know, often I'll have them maybe

draw something or sketch something or write something down or actually

like physically taking some time and space to think about, like,

why am I here and what are my expectations for this.

I think just really allows people, right. Right from the get go to be honest

about their experience and how they're feeling about being here. And then

like we talked about before, just curiosity, you know, asking

questions, making sure that people have opportunity to

speak. I tend to, you know, I prepare the

trainings and I've been so invested in. I've been studying all the material and

prepping the slide notes, all of the things. Right. And then I have so much

that I want to say and usually like such little time and

it's so tempting for me to just talk the whole time. I'm like, I've got

content to move through and it's also great I just really want to move through

it. But again, something I've learned from my Care Impact

team is just the value of asking really good questions

and making sure that I'm giving time and space for people to

process at their own speed. And that might look different

than what I prepared. It might look different than what I hoped for

and thought was what they needed. But people really do

learn best when they're given the freedom to process things at their

own pace and have some time to be able to learn together.

That's the other thing. We usually try to do some group work in our

trainings to make sure that people have time to stop and have conversations with the

people who are next to them or a pre assigned group, whatever it might be,

so that they're not only learning from the presenter

and the slide deck, but they're also having conversation with each other as

participants and they're asking each other questions. They have

more time to speak. Yeah. And to give

our listeners a bit of a picture because I'm thinking about how they could see

themselves in this, you know, as they're hearing you talk

about people, you know, coming into the room. Aside from a Pregnancy

Resource center, what are some of the other types of groups that

you have done this training or similar trainings with?

Mm, I don't feel like I've ever had a training that is

just kind of one group of people. Even with this training,

even though the reason we were all there was because they were all connected to

the Pregnancy Resource center, what I found is that they were applying the

material across the board in their lives. So they weren't just

thinking about this material in, in regards to their

relationship with the clients or their work at the Pregnancy Resource Center.

They were, they were thinking about it, you know, with their family and their friends

and the people they go to church with and their neighbors. So

in other trainings as well, I definitely, often there are,

you know, foster families, adoptive families.

I've done some training with different camps in working with that type

of ministry. You know, girls clubs, boys clubs, people

who are working with children or youth who are, who have

experienced significant trauma. But I feel like the

repeated question that I've had every time I do a training

because I'm a parent and I'm parenting children who've experienced trauma.

I tend to use a lot of examples of my children or my

experiences with children, but inevitably people are always asking,

like, what about other adults in my life? What does it look like for

my brother or my nephew or my neighbor

who I'm Close with who I know has experienced traumatic things.

What does it look like for me to translate this to them? So one of

the things that care impact that we become really passionate about is really making

this material really easy for people to translate

into the experiences that they're having with all those different people

in their lives and just broadening that language a little bit. Because

the same types of strategies that we would use with kids are the

strategies that we are going to use with adults as well. But sometimes we need

help kind of connecting those dots, right? And figuring out what would it look like

to provide safety to an adult who doesn't

feel safe? Or what does it look like for me to really listen

and like active practice active listening with another adult

versus a child? Or what does it look like when

an adult's brain and body is overstimulated or

dysregulated? What does that look like and what should I do in that

moment? Because a dysregulated adult looks a lot scarier

than a dysregulated five year old. Right. And so even though we're using the

same types of strategies, sometimes it's worth really having those conversations

and digging into that. That's really helpful. And

I think that's really important for those who are

listening because I think that is really relatable for a lot of people that

whether they're working in spaces with children and youth or

foster adoptive families are not. That's something that we can, I think,

all relate to that there are adults in our life, whether they're close or not,

who have experienced some really hard things in life

and we want to show up well for them. So

not to try and give you a, you know, do a whole training in two

minutes right now, but what are some of the things that you

say when people ask that question of, you know, if you're in a moment with

someone who is overwhelmed or hurting, especially an adult, what

can it look like to show up well and care well for them

in that moment? That's such a great question.

I feel like, you know, I'm so grateful in my own life for the Holy

Spirit, because I think first of all, we need the

Holy Spirit to be able to guide us in those interactions and help

us to know what's really going to speak to this person. But

I feel like I keep bringing up the same things. But that, that curiosity

again, like, I feel like I can't think of a situation

where the first approach isn't going to be curiosity,

you know, like to just whether that's outwardly or just

internally to just really take that pause and ask

that question like why, why is this person

feeling this way? Or why is this person behaving in the way that they

are? And what I love about curiosity is that it

really just unleashes empathy in us. I think as soon as we

are willing to be curious, we kind of step out of that

protective mode, we step out of that defensive mode,

and we're able to really start thinking, oh, wait a

minute, this person has their own perspective and their own experience. And

I wonder what that is. And oftentimes when we

do that, the other person can sense that. And you know, if

we're able to ask questions like, I'd love to understand

more about that, can you tell me more about that? Or you know,

just really, really validating their, their experience, you

know, if they're able to share with us to say, well, yeah, that makes a

lot of sense. Of course you feel that way. I think I would feel that

way too, to doing that, that relating to them and

trying to help them feel like they're, they're not alone and they're not crazy

for, for feeling the way that they do is really

helpful. So yeah, curiosity helping them to,

to feel like they're not alone. And then really if it's the

kind of relationship where you're able to really try to offer those

regulation type strategies. So, you know, we all know that

sometimes just taking a deep breath can be really helpful. If

it's a child that you're working with, you know, you might be able to say

it that's simply like, hey, can you take a deep breath with me?

Or there's lots of different fun regulation tools that we have,

especially for younger kids. Things like a bowl of hot

soup or a mug of hot chocolate where you're gently blowing

to cool it off and then gently inhaling to

smell it and those kinds of strategies. Figure

8. Breathing, things like that. Obviously with a youth or

with an older youth or an adult, it might not

feel as comfortable to prompt them to take a deep breath.

They might feel kind of judged if you do that to them. Right? But there's

still ways that we can notice that dysregulation that's happening

in their bodies and figure out how to work that out. So

maybe it's even just like, hey, do you want to take a walk? And just

walking as you talk is going to allow their bodies to move around

a little bit instead of feeling so stuck. Drives, I find, are

also great. You know, if you're in the car talking to somebody and you don't

have that direct eye contact. Sometimes offering

like, do you need a minute? There's a space over here where it's

quiet. Do you want to just take a break for a minute? Things

like that can be really helpful in just helping somebody to be able

to step away from that moment for a little bit and not feel the

pressure. Yeah, that's so good. So many practical

tips there you've just shared. And one thing I think about, you kind of

mentioned this earlier too, is I can sometimes default

into wanting to fix a situation or fix something.

And I'm really trying to work on not

defaulting to that. And so in that same vein, maybe what

is something people don't need to have figured out

before they step into, you know, a kind of situation

like that where they don't need to have that pressure

of going in, trying to fix something. Any

thoughts around that? I

love that because even for me, I've spent so

much time now in this material and I feel like I should

have a great toolbox. But sometimes in the moment,

all of that is gone. I can't remember. I don't

know what's going to be helpful. But this is where I

just. I love the practical ways that we can love

people is often just listening and being willing

to really sit in that space with them and not try to

fix it and not try to sort it out. I think one of

the things that I've really learned over the last few years in my own life

and walking with others who have been through some really

difficult things is that offering

just my presence and just

my quiet, steady presence, even my presence

in their emotions when somebody else is sad and I'm willing to

just sit in that sad with them and not try to tie

it up with a pretty ribbon and find an answer

or spiritually lead them to a place that they're just

not ready to go to be willing to just sit in that and

trust that, you know, God's going to lead them to that, to the hope,

to the clarity that they might need. But I don't have to

do that. And I can relate to you, Shannon.

I like to fix things. That's been a real challenge for me to learn that

skill. And that's something that I'm working really hard

to learn. And God's been really faithful to bring me into a lot of

experiences where I get to practice that

over the last few years. So, yeah, I think that I'm

slowly getting better at that. But to be able to just say, oh, that sounds

really hard. Like, I'm sorry. I'm really sorry that

you're walking through that. Or that makes sense. That makes so

much sense that you would feel that way, even just

offering, you know, that the little line like. Like, of course you do,

you know, like, of course you feel that way. And we all need to feel

like we're not alone and we're not crazy when we're having overwhelming

emotions. And I think that offers a lot of safety

and connection. Yeah. So good. Well,

we're getting to the end here of our time together. Is there

anything, Alicia, that I haven't asked or anything just on your heart

to share that you want to say before we close today?

I'm thinking about. We talk quite a bit about this training, and we alluded

earlier to that idea that trauma care is really for

everyone everywhere. And we talked a bit about how important

it is for the church in our role, in the ways that we're

trying to step into community. But I think that's really been

on my heart lately, and something that I've really come to notice and

see. And, you know, as I've walked through hard experiences in my own life

and as I've watched other people walk through difficult experiences

and really seeing the church, I think I've

seen it both ways. I've seen experiences

where the church really stepped in and was able to care in really,

really wonderful, thoughtful ways and really come alongside and

support people in navigating those difficult

circumstances. And then I think most of us have also

seen the alternative where we see the church step

in and instead of finding safety, you know, that that

person feels a lot of judgment or feels a lot of that fix

it culture where, you know, we want to kind of slap on

our. Our programs and our. Our agendas

onto. Onto other people in their situations. And,

yeah, I guess I just. I'm really hopeful for the church in Canada.

I think that a lot of people are asking a lot of really good

questions, and I think that there is a willingness and an eagerness

to learn new things. And I'm so excited every

time I get a peek at that. I'm thinking of one training

in particular, where it was a connection through a camp, and really there was

a family who was really struggling, and their church reached out

and said, would you bring this training to us? Because we just really want to

wrap around this family and this child. And that

was so encouraging to me because I thought,

wow, that's. That's just. That's what church is supposed to look like,

you know, like they, they knew that they didn't have the answers, but

they really wanted to be helpful and they were really mindful of

helping in the right ways. And so they reached out,

they took the initiative to say, like, I wonder if this is something that would

be helpful to us. Would you help us to understand better?

And so I'm really excited for, for the different opportunities

that have been coming our way at Care Impact. And we love the church in

Canada and we want to help. We want to help come alongside everything

that the people are already doing. There's so many wonderful

ministries and work that is happening and we really want

to come alongside and support that and help everybody feel like they're equipped to do

that as well as they can. That's right. Thank you so much,

Alicia, for coming on today. You said it exactly. Our

heart is for the church in Canada and to

help equip her and empower her to care well for community.

And that's what this is all about. So thank you. Thanks for sharing your

story and your wisdom, and I hope to have

you back on again really soon. Thank you for having

me. It's always so fun to talk to you. The

stories we share here remind us that CARE does not have to be perfect to

be powerful. It just has to be present. Neighbourly is an

initiative of Care Impact, a Canadian charity equipping churches,

agencies and communities with technology and training to care better

together. This episode was produced by CARE Creatives co,

a social enterprise of Care Impact. If you're building a podcast and want help

with strategy, editing or full production, visit

CareCreativesCo CA to connect with us.

I'm Johan. Thanks for listening and keep being the kind of

neighbor someone will never forget. In a good way.

Breaking all chains When I see you

in a stranger I'm no longer a slave

Turning over table Tearing down

wall Building up the bridges

between the stones of this

Turning over table Breaking.