Atlantic Impact is now Raising Impact: Storytelling for Nonprofits. We’re expanding beyond Atlantic Canada and speaking with organizations across the country about how they're using storytelling in their work.

In this episode, we venture to Ontario to speak with Marvin Karon, Director of Shakespearience Performing Arts, which uses interactive Shakespeare-based programs to challenge young people (and adults) and build soft skills like confidence, communication, and resilience. Throughout the conversation, he tells powerful stories of how some of his students were transformed, while weaving in practical advice for nonprofits like how Shakespearience built an inventory of over a thousand testimonials, why video is the next frontier, and the importance of making sure your storytelling is “a living, breathing thing.”

• 00:00 Season Relaunch and Guest Intro
• 01:47 Mission, Programs, and How Shakespeare Transforms Students
• 08:53 The Power of Shakespearean Language
• 09:56 The Challenge of Awareness
• 13:25 Collecting Testimonials and Video Proof
• 16:38 How Shakespearience Gathered 1,000 Testimonials
• 19:12 Consent and Media Release Basics
• 20:09 Student Story: From Inferiority to Empowerment
• 24:04 Storytelling Advice for Other Nonprofits
• 25:32 How Listeners Can Help and Why It Matters
• 31:08 Final Reflections and Closing Credits

Find out more about Shakespearience Performing Arts

• Website: shakespearience.ca
• Facebook: facebook.com/ShakespeariencePerformingArts
• YouTube: youtube.com/@shakespearienceperforminga5667
• “Sizzle Reel”: youtu.be/JS3O5bZhby0?si=_R9FaFFYsYEYf0il

About the Raising Impact: Storytelling for Nonprofits podcast

Raising Impact: Storytelling for Nonprofits, is a podcast where we explore how storytelling helps nonprofits strengthen fundraising and move their missions forward. Each episode features conversations with people working in community, sharing how story supports connection, impact, and long-term growth. Whether you're part of a nonprofit or simply care about your community, this podcast invites you to listen, reflect, and engage.

If your organization could use help turning its stories into stronger fundraising, visit collaborativecause.ca.

New episodes are released monthly. Follow the show on Spotify or Apple Podcasts to be notified when they’re published. The podcast is hosted by Tanya Wall and Michelle Samson, and is produced by Storied Places Media.

Make sure that however you are delivering your

2

story, it is clear that your story

is a living, breathing thing.

3

Michelle Samson: Welcome to Raising

Impact: Storytelling for Nonprofits,

4

where we explore how storytelling

helps nonprofits strengthen fundraising

5

and move their missions forward.

6

I'm Michelle Samson.

7

Tanya Wall: And I'm Tanya Wall.

8

Michelle Samson: Welcome back and

welcome to a new chapter of the podcast.

9

This is now Raising Impact:

Storytelling for Nonprofits.

10

So in this season, we're expanding

beyond Atlantic Canada and speaking with

11

organizations across the country about how

they're using storytelling in their work.

12

Tanya Wall: And we're starting

that off with our first guest from

13

Ontario, Marvin Karon, Director of

Shakespearience Performing Arts.

14

Michelle Samson: Shakespearience has

been working with young people for

15

nearly three decades using Shakespeare

as a way to build confidence,

16

communication skills, and a sense

of possibility in the classroom.

17

Tanya Wall: Yeah, and what really

stood out for me in this conversation

18

is how clearly storytelling shows

up in the impact they're creating.

19

The stories aren't separate from the

work, they are the evidence of it.

20

Michelle Samson: Absolutely,

and Marvin shared some really

21

powerful examples of that.

22

Moments where students shift how they see

themselves, sometimes in ways that stayed

23

with them long after the program ended.

24

Very impressive.

25

Tanya Wall: Yes, and it's a

good reminder that storytelling

26

doesn't have to be complicated.

27

Often it's about paying attention to

those moments of change and making

28

sure they're captured and shared.

29

Michelle Samson: Here's our

conversation with Marvin Karon of

30

Shakespearience Performing Arts.

31

Tanya Wall: Well, Marvin, thank

you so much for joining us today.

32

We're really excited to speak with

you, and we're gonna start, if you can

33

introduce yourself and Shakespearience,

let us know about your role and

34

the communities you work with.

35

Marvin Karon: Sure.

36

First of all, thank you so much

for inviting Shakespearience

37

to be part of your podcast.

38

Yeah.

39

My name is Marvin Karon, I am the

Executive Director of Shakespearience

40

Performing Arts, which is a 28-year-old

charitable nonprofit organization whose

41

mission is to empower young people with

character, confidence, communication,

42

and a host of other soft skills,

by demonstrating in an interactive

43

environment of exploration and discovery

that seemingly impossible challenges

44

can be overcome with just a little

teamwork, persistence, resilience,

45

determination, and imagination.

46

We achieve that goal with

three current programs.

47

We started in 1998 as a 10

school pilot program for the

48

Toronto District School Board.

49

We're now in over a hundred schools

a year in 30 boards of education

50

all over the GTA, Southern Ontario.

51

And we've been to the United

States, Chicago, New York.

52

We've been all over the UK.

53

We did online versions of our

in-class workshop both during COVID

54

and for a bunch of Chinese students

in Shanghai a number of years ago.

55

In 2005, we started an after

hours program for at risk youth in

56

priority neighborhoods in Toronto.

57

And then a year after that, we started our

summer program for under-resourced kids,

58

kids who couldn't afford the bus fare.

59

To make it to a day camp

on the other side of town.

60

And um, those are the three programs

that we currently run, and that's what we

61

do in an effort to fulfill our mission.

62

Tanya Wall: Great.

63

It keeps you busy, I'm sure.

64

Marvin Karon: Yeah.

65

And now we've expanded

into adult programming.

66

I had this idea after October 7th to the

question of, Is Shakespeare, the Merchant

67

of Venice a catalyst for antisemitism?

68

Or is it a path towards

empathy towards Jews?

69

Is that play timeless or troubling?

70

Can it still be taught in schools?

71

Should it be still be staged in theaters?

72

Or should it be retired given the

current situation internationally?

73

We did it for the first time at a

74

And we've got two more lined

up one just a week from Sunday,

75

and then another one next month.

76

And then there are other synagogues

who have expressed interest.

77

So, uh, that's kind of exciting.

78

And we've got all sorts of other

ideas in development as well.

79

But anyway.

80

That is what we do.

81

Tanya Wall: Great.

82

Michelle Samson: Fascinating.

83

It's such a broad range and

so many different groups.

84

You've touched on it a bit in this

introduction, but I'm wondering if you

85

can talk a bit more about what it is

that Shakespearience is trying to change

86

or make possible with all of this work.

87

Marvin Karon: Yeah,

thanks for that question.

88

You know, here's the problem.

89

You mention Shakespeare and you think

old, dated, all that sort of stuff.

90

Shakespearience and Shakespeare

is about empowering kids.

91

Their perception is

Shakespeare is challenging.

92

He is elitist.

93

He's only for smart people.

94

And we go in with RH Thompson,

with Colin Feore, with Seana

95

McKenna, with Tom Rooney.

96

We've got like a hundred Canadian

actors on our roster, Sir Kenneth

97

Branagh, the Academy Award winning

British actor, and we go in and we

98

show them how actors get beyond the

challenges that the text presents.

99

And for me, the syllogism has

always kind of been, Shakespeare

100

is hard and challenging, and

only smart people get him.

101

As a result of what these actors have

shown me in terms of how to overcome

102

the challenges that the text presents,

think I have a way into this guy.

103

Ergo, I must be smarter

than I thought I was.

104

And you see the kids in

a classroom levitating.

105

I was in a classroom just last week

in Hamilton and there was a young

106

man there, I think it was a Grade 8

class, and he was not sitting still.

107

He was pacing.

108

And we got to the point in the

workshop where I said, "Well,

109

we're looking for volunteers."

110

And this young man popped up and he came

in and he read beautifully in a scene

111

that we were doing from The Tempest.

112

And this happens over and over again.

113

There are some schools that will go

nameless, canceling the workshop because

114

a new principal had come in and would

not have Shakespeare in her school.

115

Tanya Wall: Mm.

116

Marvin Karon: And, that's crushing because

certainly what we do with Shakespeare

117

is not about hoisting him up as some

secular God and singing his praises.

118

What we do is we try and show how

Shakespeare just in words, every aspect

119

of the human condition that we experience.

120

And that can be a comfort and that

can be a way of helping you appreciate

121

and especially young people appreciate

that we're not alone out there.

122

Like, other people have

felt what we are feeling.

123

We started in 1998 as an

exclusively text focused workshop.

124

Every school was studying Romeo

and Juliet in Grade 9, A Midsummer

125

Night's Dream or Twelfth Night in

Grade 10, Othello or Macbeth in Grade

126

11, Hamlet or King Lear in Grade 12.

127

And then about 10 years ago,

as Shakespeare more and more

128

became marginalized in the

curriculum, we expanded our reach.

129

And now we'll go into schools

with an overview to Shakespeare.

130

We'll ask, does he still have something

to say to a 21st century audience?

131

Maybe he doesn't.

132

Although Ian McKellen was on Stephen

Colbert again very recently, and he

133

pulls a chunk of Two Noble Kinsmen,

which scholars think Shakespeare co-wrote

134

with one of the Globe Theater Company

members, and it speaks to immigration.

135

A character says, how would you

feel if you were kicked out of the

136

country if you had to leave with

nothing but the clothes in your back?

137

And Ian McKellen was clearly addressing

what's going on in the United States.

138

So, we have gone into schools

looking at antisemitism,

139

racism, sexism, gender identity.

140

Went into a school on Remembrance Day

and looked at what did Shakespeare have

141

to say about war, both the heroic and

"majestic," in quotation marks, aspects of

142

it and the horrific awful aspects of it.

143

I'm going into a school tomorrow

Here in Hamilton and looking at

144

what Shakespeare had to say about

the whole issue of mental health.

145

We go into schools and what

did Shakespeare have to say

146

about communication skills?

147

So, it's a very long way of answering

your question, but I think that this is

148

what we've learned about Shakespeare.

149

He's not just for entertainment.

150

He can be a transformative force in

certainly young people's lives and I think

151

in adult lives, and he can show us paths

to what it means to be human and alive.

152

Michelle Samson: You gave us a lot

in that answer, but I'm curious about

153

this from the student perspective.

154

What is it about Shakespeare

and your program that can even

155

pull someone like that voluntary

mute student out of their shell?

156

Marvin Karon: I love the president

of my board, David Daniels, he's

157

been with us for many, many years.

158

He's so supportive.

159

He's just terrific.

160

But we have arguments.

161

He will tell me, "Shakespeare,

the stories are so great."

162

I say, "David, it's not the stories."

163

Like Shakespeare, he created

one plot from scratch.

164

We go to Shakespeare and I think what the

students get out of it is the language.

165

It's that soaring, exquisite,

beautiful language.

166

And like music that language gets

inside their bodies, it gets inside

167

their heads, it gets inside their

souls, and it resonates there.

168

And it's just like riding a wave.

169

That I think is what students find

so compelling and arresting and what

170

draws them in to Shakespeare and draws

them back to Shakespeare as well.

171

Michelle Samson: Hmm.

172

Tanya Wall: And I'm curious, when you

have those impactful moments and you

173

hear about them or you visibly see them

yourself, how do you take those stories

174

then and that impact, and how does

that translate into the work you do?

175

Whether it's fundraising for the

organization, building community,

176

volunteerism, how do you share

those stories in that way?

177

Marvin Karon: Well, we do try.

178

We're of course on all the

social media and we try.

179

But I'm hoping you have an audience

of at least 50 million listeners

180

because, well, it takes me aback.

181

We're 27 years in and we have

over a thousand testimonials from

182

teachers, parents, students, artists.

183

Over a thousand.

184

And I go into this school, and it's

not the first time it's happened

185

to me, I go into the school and

the teacher says, "This is great,

186

how long have you been doing this?"

187

And I say, "Well, 27 years."

188

He says, "I've never heard of you."

189

Michelle Samson: Hmm.

190

Marvin Karon: So we have a

terrific board and a lot of new

191

people, so I'm very excited.

192

We We've also, McMaster University here

in Hamilton has just been spectacular,

193

they've sent me some volunteers.

194

They sent me an email about six weeks

ago, "Are you looking for volunteers?"

195

I said, yeah 'cause Shakespearience

is still a one man band.

196

I do it all.

197

I deliver the workshops, administer, I do

all the promotion and publicity and stuff.

198

So, it's a bit of a challenge,

but these McMaster students

199

have just been a godsend.

200

And we are talking about strategies now

of getting the word out wider and to

201

larger communities, to fundraisers, to

administrators, to teachers, to parents.

202

Look, all of our programming, the

in-class workshops, the summer program,

203

the after hours program, they're

all provided at no charge to staff

204

and students and participants in the

interests of equity and fairness.

205

So through our generous corporate

foundation and individual sponsors, we

206

go into schools and we offer our summer

and after hours programs free of charge.

207

And despite that, we have three people

signed up for the summer program.

208

We should have a waiting list.

209

And, you know, so it's very

hard to get the word out there.

210

And then, again, as a result of the

trend in education over the last, I

211

would say 6, 8, 10 years, which is

not the way it was when we started in

212

1998, but there's been a real drive to

marginalize and minimize Shakespeare.

213

And that has meant, well, I'm not gonna

have to study for him on any exam, so

214

why would I go to the Shakespearience

after hours program and try to

215

improve my English mark that way?

216

Shakespeare isn't even on

the curriculum anymore.

217

So that's really a challenge for us.

218

And if anybody has any ideas on

how to overcome that challenge, we

219

would be wide open to suggestion.

220

Tanya Wall: Yeah, and you're not alone.

221

That, I think, is a common challenge for

those working whether it's in the arts

222

or in social services, your ability to

deliver the service can be challenging

223

enough, or to deliver the programs can be

challenging enough, let alone, you know,

224

have the capacity to get the word out.

225

So, hopefully, this will help.

226

And you know, certainly there may

be people listening that can offer

227

some help in that way as well.

228

Marvin Karon: Shakespearience.ca,

229

www.shakespearience.ca.

230

Contact me there.

231

We're always looking for

help from any quarter.

232

Tanya Wall: Right.

233

So, in terms of how you gather stories

right now, do you have any kind of

234

process where you're recording like these

impactful moments that have happened?

235

Or are they kind of all in your head but

not yet somewhere in terms of storage?

236

Marvin Karon: A couple of things on that.

237

First of all, in the Stone Age, I used

to hand out written surveys and then, you

238

know, just like try and crunch them into a

computer, into a spreadsheet or whatever.

239

But for about the past 10 years we've got

a QR code on the front of the programs for

240

the students as well as a link that I will

send to the teacher after every workshop.

241

And we've got about 2000 responses

from kids and we've got about

242

400 responses from teachers.

243

Tanya Wall: Wow.

244

Marvin Karon: There's a 10 question

survey, and then a box for comments

245

from both teachers and from students.

246

And then, I wish I could share this

with you, it's a video and it is

247

just from last summer, although it's

happened on more than one occasion.

248

There was a young man who will

go nameless, but he was in

249

Grade 12 and I would say he

was reading at a Grade 3 level.

250

And we recorded him, like on

my iPhone, I recorded him.

251

Then on the night of the performance,

I recorded him again totally

252

self-assured, confident, eloquent.

253

I have shown this video to people

on the board and to teachers and

254

donors and funders and various

friends of Shakespearience, and

255

they are all just gobsmacked at the

transformation this young man makes.

256

So we've got those two avenues and

routes we're pursuing to collect

257

feedback about the work we're

doing and the impact it's having.

258

Tanya Wall: Great.

259

Michelle Samson: That is such an

incredible database of stories.

260

Do you have any data

you've collected out of it?

261

How are you using it?

262

Marvin Karon: Well, yeah, a lot

of grant applications will ask

263

for, you know, do you do metrics?

264

And, it's great, you know, the software

today, you just keep adding the numbers

265

and the computer does it all for you.

266

And I think a hundred percent

of teachers have said they would

267

recommend the program to colleagues.

268

99.4%

269

of teachers said the presenters

knew what they were talking about

270

and seemed very, very skillful.

271

99.1%

272

said we rearranged young people's

perceptions of Shakespeare and the kind

273

of impact you could have on their lives.

274

99 percent of teachers say that

what we offer are transferable

275

skills that young people can use

in other areas of their lives.

276

So we certainly use all that data when we

are putting together packages for funders.

277

And, again, back to my board chair,

David Daniels, he's a very smart guy

278

and a really superb businessman and

an incredibly generous philanthropist.

279

And he really wants us to move more

and more and more into this area of

280

videos, and we've been working for a

period of time now on what he calls a

281

"sizzle reel," which is, you know, a two

and a half minute clip of who we are,

282

what we do, and the impact it's had.

283

Tanya Wall: In terms of how you're

gathering your stories, you've talked

284

about the surveys and different ways

that you receive feedback, and I'm

285

thinking about if another organization

is listening and they don't even know

286

where to get started in terms of getting

some of that feedback, it sounds like

287

you've had a lot of success with that.

288

Anything else that you would share as

far as how you've been so successful in

289

getting those testimonials and feedback?

290

Marvin Karon: Well, it sounds

impressive, but I gotta tell you, we've

291

been into about like 2,500 schools.

292

Now, you know, to be fair, we didn't

start the online survey until maybe six,

293

seven years ago, so that's, I don't know.

294

Our batting average is probably

like, we were probably getting

295

around a 35, 40% response.

296

Now if a baseball player was batting

four hundred, he'd win the batting crown.

297

So that's pretty good.

298

But I wish more teachers would take the

time to help us out and add more data that

299

we could incorporate into our metrics.

300

That being said, I taught to the

Toronto District School Board for

301

23 years, and it was insane then.

302

And now, like I have to get back

to a teacher, I've been going to

303

visit her, this will be the sixth or

seventh time, and there are new rules.

304

And it is like two hours of paperwork.

305

Tanya Wall: Wow.

306

Marvin Karon: Hoops, you know, forms

you have to fill out, police records,

307

it's gotten so much more complicated.

308

So it's getting harder and harder to

get people to, and I don't blame them

309

but God bless the ones who do, to carve

out the time to give us some feedback.

310

So you know, I think it's persistence.

311

Like I certainly, tomorrow I will go to

this school, I'll deliver the workshop,

312

and then I will come back to the office

and I'll send a template to the teacher.

313

I'll say, "Thanks so much

for having us in today.

314

In order to keep the workshop free of

charge in the interest of equity and

315

fairness, it would really help if we

had evidence to present to our funders

316

that what we are doing is worthwhile

both in terms of the pedagogy..."

317

and so on and so forth.

318

And then I'll send that along and then

I'll wait a week and then I will say,

319

"Having been a teacher for 23 years,

I know how busy you are, but if you

320

could carve out a little time, even

if it's to take, you know, five or

321

10 minutes to click strongly agree.

322

There's just 10 questions.

323

Strongly agree, agree, unsure,

disagree, strongly disagree.

324

You know, if you could just

take the time to do that.

325

Tanya Wall: Mm hmm.

326

Marvin Karon: And then I leave it

because I don't wanna badger them.

327

If they don't have the time,

they don't have the time.

328

Tanya Wall: Mm-hmm.

329

Marvin Karon: Yeah.

330

Michelle Samson: When you're

dealing particularly with underage

331

students, um, have you come across

any challenges trying to, you know,

332

collect responses or collect video?

333

Marvin Karon: Well, we have two

lawyers on the Shakespearience

334

and we have release forms.

335

So the summer program, after

hours program, they all sign

336

off on media release forms.

337

And actually, when we did the "Timeless

or Troubling," you know, is Merchant of

338

Venice anti-Semitic and should it still be

taught in schools and staged in theaters?

339

There were release forms for that

as well, even for the adults.

340

Michelle Samson: Hmm.

341

Marvin Karon: And the deal was okay if

you do not want to be seen on camera,

342

we have a section over here where we

will not shoot and you can sit there

343

and only about three or four people did.

344

But yeah, we're really, especially in

345

So we're very, very careful

and scrupulous about that.

346

For sure.

347

Tanya Wall: And for those who are happy

to have their experience shared and

348

the impact that it's had being a part

of the workshop or a program, what has

349

Shakespearience learned about what it

means for them to have their story shared?

350

Marvin Karon: I mean, gosh, at

the end of the day, our lives, our

351

stories, that's what it's all about.

352

And we we're all looking for those

opportunities to share our stories,

353

be it through religion, through art,

through music, however that works.

354

Just another story from

my bag of tricks here.

355

There was a lovely girl who came

to us, she was with us for three

356

years in the summer program.

357

She, um, was in a foster home.

358

Her mother was legally barred from

interacting or having any connection

359

with her whatsoever because she was

unfortunately a drug addict and abusive.

360

She was sitting on at lunch by herself,

and I sat down beside her on the second or

361

third day and she told me that she would

go home from rehearsals and she wouldn't

362

sit with the family, the foster family.

363

She would take her meals

upstairs and eat alone.

364

And that the time she was spending

with us was the best part of her day.

365

It gets even better.

366

Our summer and after hours programs,

we don't do a whole play 'cause

367

if you're doing Romeo and Juliet

and you lose your Romeo or your

368

Juliet, you're totally screwed.

369

Right?

370

So from the beginning what we do is

we do scenes tied together by a theme.

371

After I disconnect from

you, I'm off to St.

372

Mary's here in Hamilton and I've

got about a dozen lovely high

373

school kids working on scenes tied

together by the theme of fake news.

374

So we're looking at King Lear,

John Fallstaff talking about how

375

he killed 50 guys, he killed 100

guys, he killed 500 guys on the

376

battlefield, and so on and so forth.

377

Anyway, with this young

lady, the theme was villains.

378

And she was a black girl.

379

And we have a YouTube video, which

you can check out on the YouTube,

380

just go pop in Shakespearean.

381

And she talks more eloquently than even

I am now, about how that experience

382

changed her, how she always felt inferior.

383

And she learned from playing Othello

that Iago is a liar, and she compared

384

Iago to those thoughts in her head that

tell her that she is not good enough.

385

And she gets quite teary at the end,

and if that does not move you to

386

tears, this is our last conversation

because you have no heart or soul.

387

But she's just so incredibly compelling.

388

So, for this young lady to be able to

experience through art the falseness

389

of being inferior because of her

skin color, and then being able to

390

tell in a YouTube interview what,

I mean, it's like double-dipping,

391

gets to tell the story twice.

392

And I think that just sort of

underscores and reinforces the message,

393

hey, you know what Shakespeare knew,

and now I know, that no, it's crap.

394

I am not inferior because

of my race or my color.

395

And I think that giving her the

opportunity to tell the story both

396

on stage in a fictitious setting, and

as herself just went a long way to

397

expiating and to helping her understand

a horrible part of her past that she'd

398

grown up with that she was free of.

399

And she very, very generously attributes

to her experience with Shakespearience.

400

As I say, she was with us for three years,

one of the strongest actors we ever had.

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Tanya Wall: Hmm.

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Michelle Samson: Wow.

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And we can include links to some

of these videos in the show notes.

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Marvin Karon: Oh, great!

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I can send anything you want.

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Michelle Samson: Great.

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So Marvin, what advice would you

give to other nonprofits who want to

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strengthen how they use storytelling

to move their mission forward?

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Marvin Karon: Geez.

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I guess this all ties into Shakespeare

and my constant fear that we and he

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are perceived as somehow antique,

musty, historical, cultural icons

412

and not living in the here and now.

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I think that if I had any advice

for other nonprofits about how to

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utilize storytelling, make sure

that however you are delivering

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your story, it is clear that your

story is a living, breathing thing.

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It's not some historical tract.

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It's not a piece of history.

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It's a thing for right now.

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I think the idea is to focus on the

transformation that that process can

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have on the people you are serving.

421

What we try to do with Shakespeare

is we try to use Shakespeare as a

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tool of transformation, as a path

from "I can't" to "I can and I will."

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If you do that, I think you

move your mission forward

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for another 28 or 30 years.

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Tanya Wall: That's Great advice.

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And as we wrap up, this is

definitely an opportunity, Marvin,

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for you to speak to our listeners.

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We expect that people are listening

who are from other organizations, but

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we also expect people from general

community to be listening and maybe

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they do have time or resources to help.

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So what would be most helpful to

Shakespearience right now where

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people could make a difference?

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Marvin Karon: Well.

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Leaving aside funding

like a million dollars.

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We are a charitable nonprofit, so

you do get a, a tax receipt for that.

436

Tanya Wall: Mm-hmm.

437

Marvin Karon: As discussed earlier

on in our session, it would be

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great if we could get the word out.

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Couple of things to say.

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I

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always wrap up the in-class workshops

by telling a true story of how I went

442

to do a workshop in North York, in

Toronto at a high school for English as

443

a second language students, ESL students.

444

And there was an Asian fellow

sitting about five feet away from me.

445

I said, "Excuse me, where are you from?"

446

He said, "I'm from China."

447

I said, "Where in China?"

448

He said, "Shanghai."

449

I said, "You speak Mandarin??

450

He says, "Yeah."

451

I said, "Oh, who's your favorite

writer writing in Mandarin?

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It can be a novelist, a playwright, a

poet, a songwriter, TV writer, anything."

453

And he gives me a name.

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I say, "I'm sorry, never

heard of that person."

455

And he says, "They're the

most famous novelist in China.

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They've won awards."

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I said, "I believe you.

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I'm not proud of my ignorance, but I

just don't know who that person is."

459

I said, "But can I ask you something?

460

If we were to go to downtown Toronto

right now and ask a hundred passers

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by, can you name me one novel written

by this young man's favorite novelist.

462

Their name is.

463

How many people out of a hundred do

you think would be able to respond

464

affirmatively to that question?"

465

And he said, "Well, unless they

were recent immigrants or Chinese

466

tourists," he said, "probably zero."

467

I said, "That's what I thought.

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Now let me ask you this.

469

If we were to go to downtown Shanghai

right now and ask a hundred passers by

470

'have you read two plays by Shakespeare,

either in the original or translation?'

471

How many people out of a hundred

do you think would answer that

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question the affirmative?"

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And he said, "Well, certainly

85 out of a hundred.

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Maybe 95 out of a hundred.

475

There's even a possibility that all 100

people you asked would respond, 'Yeah,

476

sure, of course I've read Shakespeare.'"

477

There is something unique

going on with this guy.

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RH Thompson again, who helped me

start this program 28 years ago

479

now, he said once that Shakespeare

is the only international writer.

480

His plays and poetry they cut

across all times, all geographical

481

boundaries, all cultures, all

language differences, all religions.

482

And I think that is what makes him

unique and why on surveys where they

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ask who are the most influential

people of, you know, of all time?

484

Shakespeare always rates

so highly on those surveys.

485

If anybody is listening out there, we

have a bit of a challenge and we've

486

faced this for a number of years now.

487

We will go to funders that support the

arts and they'll say, "Well, you're

488

really not arts, you're really education."

489

And then we'll go to people

who support education.

490

They'll say, "Well, you're really not

education, you're the arts, right?"

491

So, this is a kind of a

frustrating challenge.

492

Tanya Wall: Mm-hmm.

493

Marvin Karon: And we use the artistry

of Shakespeare as a tool to develop

494

and to save soft skills that are kind

of disappearing in this digital age.

495

After 28 years of doing this, I'm more

convinced than ever that resilience,

496

teamwork, confidence, communication

skills, determination, persistence,

497

they are even more valuable than

ever for young people to learn how to

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work into their repertoire of skills.

499

And so the work we do is not

designed to train future actors.

500

I'm a graduate of the National

Theater School of Canada and there

501

are lots of really good schools

that train young people who are

502

interested in a career as actors.

503

And we're not even Bardologists who are

going into schools or offering programs

504

to sing the praises of Shakespeare.

505

Support for Shakespearience,

I think, is an investment in

506

the future of young people.

507

In people who will take leadership

positions in our community in the future.

508

One last story, I don't think

she will mind me using her name,

509

she's up on our YouTube site, Dr.

510

Alina Shaw.

511

She came to us in 2006, in our first

year of the after hours program,

512

and she's now a medical doctor.

513

She talks so eloquently about how

the skills, communication skills,

514

she learned in Shakespearience taught

her how to deal with her residents

515

when she was going around presenting

cases, you know, in hospitals.

516

She drew on everything she

learned at Shakespearience.

517

She talks about how, you know, you

have to deliver news to patients

518

that sometimes is not very favorable

and you have to put on a mask.

519

And she talks about how

Shakespearience helped her with that.

520

We're building an inner infrastructure

that kids can hopefully rely on to

521

serve them in every area of their life,

academic, personal, and professional

522

for the rest of their lives.

523

Michelle Samson: Wow.

524

This has been so interesting, Marvin.

525

You have made a very strong

case for Shakespeare.

526

Any final thoughts that you'd like

to share with us or leave us with?

527

Marvin Karon: Just, thank you.

528

Thank you for giving me this opportunity.

529

I don't wanna get political here,

and I'm gonna be very, very careful,

530

but, you know, an educated citizenry,

people who can articulate and who

531

can express what they feel and who

can think about what they think,

532

that gets us all to a better place.

533

That gets us all to a leadership

in government where our politicians

534

are looking out for the best

interests of the people they serve.

535

And I think that Shakespeare

can only help to that end.

536

Don't worry, I'm not gonna swear on your

podcast, but RH Thompson, I was doing an

537

LTO at York Mills Collegiate in Toronto,

and this is how Shakespearience I said,

538

" Robert, what are you doing next Thursday?

539

I'm teaching Macbeth or Hamlet to my kids

and my senior students, and can you come?

540

I have no idea what we'll do, we'll

just noodle around like two actors do."

541

And he said, "Sure, yeah, I can come up."

542

My department head heard that

award-winning Canadian actor RH

543

Thompson was coming to the school.

544

He said, "Well, he's not just doing

this workshop for your class."

545

And he booked the school auditorium

and we had all the 12s in there.

546

And we were wrapping things up, and I

547

What's the point?"

548

And he said, "Well, everybody

in this room, you know, you've

549

probably all felt despair.

550

You've probably all felt that

life was not worth living.

551

And when you feel that way, is it

better to express those thoughts

552

by saying 'to or not to be?

553

That is the question whether just

no in the mind to suffer the slings

554

and arrows, outrageous fortune,

or to take arms against a sea of

555

troubles and by opposing end them.'

556

Or is it better to say--" And

then he exploded with the F bomb.

557

I was looking at my department

head thinking, I didn't know he

558

was gonna say that, don't fire us!

559

You know, again, bringing

it back full circle.

560

That's what Shakespeare does for us.

561

He, you know, I think Robert

is right, much better to say,

562

"to be or not to be" than...

563

But we get into that state

of being and state of mind.

564

Michelle Samson: Amazing.

565

Tanya Wall: Thank you so much.

566

It's been our pleasure

chatting with you today.

567

Marvin Karon: Pleasure.

568

Thanks for inviting us.

569

Again, Shakespearience.ca,

570

that's our website.

571

And we would love to hear from

anybody and everybody even remotely

572

interested in keeping the cause

going, the cause as described over

573

the course of our conversation here.

574

Michelle Samson: Thanks for

listening to Raising Impact:

575

Storytelling for Nonprofits.

576

If your organization could use help

turning its stories into stronger

577

fundraising, visit collaborativecause.ca.

578

New episodes are released monthly.

579

Follow the show on Spotify or Apple

Podcasts to be notified when they drop.

580

Raising Impact is an initiative of

Collaborative Cause consulting and

581

is produced by Storied Places Media.

582

Thanks for listening.