In this episode, Pam shares her early calling into healing, sparked by an intuitive pull toward touch and massage therapy at a young age. Beginning her training at seventeen, she reflects on the mentors who shaped her foundation and guided her onto a path aligned with her own destiny.

She describes a transformative chapter in her twenties that invited deep inner exploration and shadow work, ultimately leading her back to spirit-led practice through BodyTalk. Pam emphasizes listening to the true voice of symptoms as meaningful messengers rather than problems to be fixed, and the importance of living in balance between light and dark.

She delves into non-judgment, embodied wisdom, and the golden alchemy that emerges when healing honors both the physical body and spiritual awareness.

Pam’s offerings to our listeners:

●      Check out all the services available on her website, pamdhillon.com. Be curious and explore, click the Booking Link  to try it out!

Connect with Pam:

• Pam Dhillon - Website
• Pam Dhillon - Facebook
• Pam Dhillon - Instagram

Connect with Rev. DeeAnne:

• Rose Hope - Website
• Rose Hope - Facebook
• Rose Hope - Youtube

Join Rev. Rose for a free 7 day journey into the Akashic Records by registering here: https://rosehope.ca/7-days-of-creation/.

About the Guest:

Pam Dhillon, CBP, is a practitioner of consciousness-based medicine and a guide for deep inner transformation and embodied wisdom. Through her Wild & Wise multidimensional offerings, she supports individuals in shedding old patterns, reclaiming inner authority, and living in greater soul alignment. Blending somatic practices, energetic medicine, and consciousness exploration, Pam is known for translating complex concepts into grounded, lived experiences and guiding profound healing with compassion, clarity, and devotion.

About the Host:

Rev. DeeAnne ‘Rose Hope’ Riendeau  B.Msc, HADM, PIDP, NLP is a thought leader in spiritual and business development whose mission is to elevate how we think and live. Experiencing a life of chronic illness, and 2 near death experiences, DeeAnne rebounded with 20 years of health education and a diverse health career.

She is known as the modern day Willy Wonka for giving away her company Your Holistic Earth, which is the first holistic health care system of its kind.  She is currently the owner of Rose Hope International, in which she helps those who are seeking more joy, love, freedom, and a deeper meaning in life using your souls library also known as the Akashic Records. 

She has spoken at Harvard University, appeared on Shaw TV, Global Television, and CTV and has been recognized as a visionary and business leader having been nominated for numerous awards including Alberta Business of Distinction. Along with being an entrepreneur, DeeAnne is a mom of 2 bright kids, publisher, popular speaker and international bestselling author who uses her heart and her head to guide others to create their best life. 

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WSC Intro/Outro: This is when Spirit calls and you on your journey, are in the right place. This show is about magic, miracles and meaning shared through stories, interviews and channeled messages. We have so much to share about who you are and your divine mission here on the earth, let's get to it when Spirit calls is right now.

Rev. Rose Hope: Our guest today is Pam Dhillon. Pam is a practitioner of conscious based medicine and a guide for those walking the path of deep inner work, transformation and embodied wisdom. Through her wild and wise, multi dimensional offerings, she supports people in remembering who they truly are beneath the noise patterns and conditioning they've carried for years. With a grounded, compassionate presence, Pam weaves together somatic practices energy medicine and conscious exploration to help individuals dissolve what no longer serves, reclaim their inner authority and live from a more authentic soul aligned place. Her work is rooted in the understanding that every challenge, physical, emotional or relational, has a deeper intelligence underneath it, and that healing begins when we are willing to meet ourselves with honesty, courage and devotion. Pam is known for her ability to translate complex, energetic and conscious based concepts into lived, embodied experiences, and for guiding people through profound transformation with gentleness and clarity, whether she is leading group work or supporting clients, one on one, she invites people into a space where healing becomes an act of remembrance and personal evolution becomes deeply inspiring. I hope you enjoyed today's show.

Hi everybody. Welcome back to when Spirit calls. I got to tell you, in the last few months, I've met some really incredible people, and I like to say it's because I'm leveling up that I'm meeting all these beautiful, bright souls. And in the last six weeks or so, I think was when we officially met. We saw each other online briefly, on a few calls, but we got to meet and hug each other at new human in October. So Pam, thank you so much for being willing to give us your time today and share a bit of your story. I know that I want to know you, and I'm so excited for our listeners to get to know you today as well. So welcome, thank you. I'm so excited to be here and just the invitation like lights me up and and to share more about the magic of the world and what's available for people. I just love being able to have really good, heart centered conversations, and I obviously want to know you more too. So this was such a beautiful opportunity just to be able to chat with you and be in your space and in your energy. So I'm just so excited. Oh, thank you so much. And you know, you mentioned them the magic of the world. And I gotta tell you, I haven't been feeling the magic of the world. You know, I had an experience recently, and I like to say that I went to heaven and I walked through Hell, yeah, and so I've been moving through a lot, and as I'm moving through a lot, I'm noticing all my clients desperate for support and for help, and we're kind of knocked out of our typical flow of that magic. So I'm excited to hear what you've got to say, because I have a feeling it's exactly what we need to hear today. So I would love for you to get us going with your story. I want to know when sphere called you what? What did that path look like? Because you're a profound, exceptional healer now, and always have been, but now you've really stepped into that and and that's the work that you do. So I'd love to know how you've gotten to this place.

Totally, thank you for asking, and it's such a beautiful thing to share those stories, because I think that we don't always know who we are until sometimes hindsight. And so I didn't know some of the places where spirit was already calling me, until I look back into my life and go, Oh, that was spirit, that was spirit, that was spirit. I was just all it was the whole time. But so if I go back and look at the breadcrumbs of what created me to become who I am now, honestly, that started in childhood when spirit actually called, and I grew up in a home that didn't really have any healing modalities in there. My mom actually does healing now, but we started studying around the same time, and so when I went to massage therapy school, when I was 17, she went to cranial therapy, sacral training, and we did a parallel but before that, there wasn't really much, but I felt this like innate calling as a little girl to always want to touch people and massage them. Massage was my thing from a really young age. I used to massage my grandma all the time. My grandpa Some, yeah, found family members who had just kind of felt called. Levels of the other they had a little pain in their body, my little hands would come up and figure out how to work it out. And I didn't even know what healing touch was. I didn't know what massage therapy was. I didn't know anything like that. I just knew that I had this kind of draw towards pain in somebody's body, and I wanted to put my hands there. And I did that at, honestly, a really young age, and I just kept on growing into that, wow, yeah, as an intuitive knowing, you know, as a little child, just to know I need to place my hands there. Wow. I love that. Yeah. And so then I continued into just kind of massaging classmates, even through high school. And I was literally giving that friend of mine a head massage at one point, and he's like, man, you're so good at this, why don't you become a massage therapist? And I'm like,

huh, that'll drop.

Rev. Rose Hope: I can do this for Hey,

literally for a career path. That was the first kind of, again, loud conscious Spirit just called me like there was no other option at that point. And literally, like everything narrowed down into this is it? You know, all the contemplations in your senior years of high school, you're thinking, What can I be? What do I want to do? I was not sure. And all of a sudden, this one comment made everything made sense. I was like, obviously, obviously, I'm going to go into the touch of some sort of healing of some sort. And I literally registered for massage therapy while I was still in high school to be in that program starting September. And so I was a child. I was 17 when I started training. That's incredible. Now, so, so young. I'm 42 now, so it's been a huge part of my conscious life of like, actually as a child, unconsciously doing it, but as 17, very consciously choosing it. Yeah.

Rev. Rose Hope: Wow. That's fascinating to me. I'm thinking back, I actually went, I was taking my EMT at 17 as well. I turned 18 while I was doing my practicum for my EMT. So I, like you, was an Early Achiever. I would call it

Truly. And then it didn't know that there was more than just, like, massage therapy. I didn't know about energy healing. Then I didn't know, like, where, what I was going to turn into now, because I I'm massage therapist anymore, but the journey, I needed that foundation. But at that same time, around 18, while I was in massage therapy school, I like somehow, I don't know how I drew this towards me again, Spirit showed up and delivered me two beautiful mentors outside of my schooling program. So there was at 18, I had two women who were both in their 50s at that time. One woman, her name was Jenny, and she was very, very galactic, very cosmic. She would read like she was all in the stars. And I had massaged her in the student clinic, and she just kind of saw something in me, saw that potential, and just kind of took me under her wing. And without me being even knowing how it happened. I would spend dinners with her and go to her workshops and go to her intuitive classes and learn how to, like, find that wisdom within me at 18. Wow. And she just would hang out with me and and, like, I would watch her talk to animals or talk to spirit or talk to the stars, and I was like, I don't know how she's doing all this stuff, but I'm fascinated. And so that was one of my, my mentors. And then my other one, Melissa, she was a yoga mentor, so very earthy, very Eastern, really understood the all the limbs of yoga and of that, you know, deep practice and devotion. And she was teaching at a gym I worked at, and all of a sudden she become, she came my other like the other wing that I was underneath and and these two women, when I was 18, just started to again. They both just saw potential. And I just hung out with both of them without even really realizing what I was doing than what I was seeping myself into. And I hung out with both of them for a number of years, probably until about 24 they were a big part of my life. And that same time, I was finishing up

massage therapy school, I became a registered massage therapist. I started my practice, yeah. And then after, you know, quite a number of years of massage therapy, probably tell about age 30. I was kind of like, okay, searching, searching for more, searching for something, and now that was going to take me just out of the physical realm, because I was noticing in my own practice that it just wasn't going deep as I wanted it to go.

Rev. Rose Hope: Yeah, wow. It's so interesting. Isn't that a thing in our 20s, right, where we're just in this deep seeking, searching kind of phase. I mean, I feel like I've been in deep seeking for my whole life, to be honest, but I really found that in my mid 20s, like I called it the quarter life crisis, you know, or I just kind of did this deep dive of like, who am I? Who do I want to be? Where am I going? All of the questions, big questions, started coming to the surface.

And I like when I stepped away from my mentors and my kind of 20 to 24 year old time, it's because, like that also was by spirit. Also I heard loud and clear, like it's time to get out from underneath the wings. And if you stay down here forever, you're not going to be to fly for yourself.

Rev. Rose Hope: Brilliant, brilliant, I love it. Yeah, it's time to leave the nest. Time to leave the nest.

And so I remember had like, like, you know, quote, unquote breakup conversations with my mentors. And there was like, I don't know what an I was hearing that I have to continue on. Thank you so much for your service. And yeah, and mentor Jenny, I haven't seen her since the day I I had to step away since I flew out of the desk. I haven't seen anything, but she's a huge presence in my life. But after that time, it's like I was very clear, told my spirit to leave at that point. But that's where I went into the shadow, when, when I went into the 20th just like being nice human, like learning about the grittiness of this life, learning about just the shadow, and I had shadow for sure, in my childhood too, absolutely, but I just really dove into it in like, a gritty kind of way, as you do in your 20s, also, yeah. And I just became very, very human for about seven years, until I hit about 30, when spirit kind of said, All right, let's pop you out of here again. And and that's when I found BodyTalk, and when that training, about 12 years ago.

Rev. Rose Hope: amazing, and so you've been like combining the BodyTalk, the massage and also the other gifts you have, because I know you got lots of other gifts. Yeah, there too, in the experience that people have with you.

When I first started massage, I just did that because they're very there's a lot of like regulations with the piece. So it was very separated. I would study BodyTalk kind of quite privately at the beginning. I didn't, I didn't really bring it into my public knowing I was sure how people were going to handle it 12 years ago, right, right? I mean, fully what I'm doing now, which is even way more Quantum. But even then, I didn't know how to have these conversations with some of my clients. But hey, you do want to try this other thing that I'm doing also? So I spent about three, three and a half years just studying and practicing and trading with friends and doing the modules and actually healing myself, mostly while I was in the training program, wow. And then after some years, I was like, Okay, this needs to come into my practice. At that point, I got, like, started to find again spirit. Say, Okay, you can't hide in the in the closet forever here. You got to bring this into the clinic. And I was terrified, because I didn't know what people were going to think about. You know, this, like, woo, woo work or consciousness based stuff that you can't tangibly feel necessarily. You can't tangibly feel it when you're when you get sensitive enough. But in that beginning for some people, and so I slowly start to just offer it kind of outside of my hours, you know, just kind of said, Hey, try it out. And that just slowly started to build and build and build over a number of years where it was, you know, just a few pie chart sessions a week. So sorry to the increase and increase and increase to the point where now I am no longer a registered massage therapist. I dropped my license two years ago, and I'm 100% full time in quantum healing in my PI talk practice. And I do that full time and embrace it fully, and I have completely stepped into that magic world and a regulated spaces. Yeah, it was out of freedom. I Oh, yeah. I respect that world as

well. Lived it really well. But now being in my freedom,

Rev. Rose Hope: yeah, I hear that. Oh, amazing. So can you tell our listeners what BodyTalk is? Because I know I understand it. I, you know, worked with some practitioners over the years, but I think there's still a lot of people that don't quite know how it works, what it is.

Totally so BodyTalk is a system that brings in a lot of different philosophies from lots of different modalities. There is a huge like Chinese medicine kind of foundation in it. There is lots of Ayurvedic aspects. There's astrological aspects. There is consciousness in there. There is Reiki, kind of built right in there's everything. There's so much that's kind of built into the system. But the lens that we look at it through is through consciousness versus even through energy. So we look at, okay, how does our consciousness affect these certain aspects of our body, if it's an energy system or physical system or an emotional part of the body or mental part of the body, what is our consciousness contributing to our dysfunction or our disease? And we the BodyTalk, you know, sessions, what they do is they the practitioner gets to tune into the body, gets to find parts of the system. It could be in any part of the layers, the subtle layers, or the physical layers. And we find things that are we don't blocked or not communicating well in the body. And so what we want to do is build links to help the body. Parts, or the energetic parts, to actually communicate better again, and sometimes when we break communication within our bodies because of a condition, an emotion, a story, a trauma, that could be something of your lifetime, or something inherited from your familial line, something maybe past life, something parallel life. So it could be anywhere from any Romani dimension. And so that's when the quantumness comes in. And what I really dove into is just really now, really viewing the soul as a multi dimensional aspect myself. And we know then when we want to look at healing that density, that thing that we want to shift and change, could be anywhere in the cosmos, in any dimension, in any realm. And then we get to, like the practitioner or I, get to peek into all those places, when, where is the place of priority for you, for me to bring

observation, bring my consciousness towards looking at your consciousness. How does the observer effect create that change through the quantum field. Yeah, right there. Just by simply observing change and observing potential, we create something new.

Rev. Rose Hope: I love this so much. It kind of reminds me I think it's the double slit experiment. Yeah, right. So when they shine a light through these slits as it comes out on the other side with no observer. It just comes through scattered as soon as you bring the observer and it sees the order of it, and now the the light is coming through in a you know, linear fashion, or whatever. It's wild observation, isn't it? Observation? Just observation can change everything. It changes everything. It changes everything.

Like we can say we're not a bias observer, but there's no such thing like we're observation a human being, being present, bringing their awareness to something, creates a new potential, creates a direction, creates an order, brings patterns into from chaos into a pattern. And so when we can really go, Okay, if I can observe something in somebody's system to bring order and ease and connection that just ripples through so much, and then ripples through that quantum field in such a huge way that reaches every layer of that, of that person's self, brilliant.

Rev. Rose Hope: I love this so much, you know? I oftentimes will tell people that I can't read my palm if my hand is on my face, you know. And I think that for us, we get kind of stuck in that where we can't maybe bear witness to some aspect of ourselves, yes, and so that's where I think the power comes in, and having other people in our world that can actually be the mirror or the reflector or the opener of the observation for us to be able to be witness to ourselves and to see the parts that maybe we're hiding or blind spots or what have you, or that are maybe just too close to us that we we can't see it.

And that's always the case. Like, I've been in this work, like, for again, like, a long time, and I always have an observer. I have regular sessions all the time, because right there is that place where, when things are so close, we can't see it properly, we need someone with that bird's eye view the one that doesn't have an emotional attachment to it. And so when the emotions are strong, or the story is strong, or we're really triggered and we're riled up, then it's hard to, like, just take a breath and see the way we need to see it. And some, lots of times we absolutely can. We can get that clarity. We can get grounded and see I do that observation for myself as a third party of self office, but a lot of the time, sometimes, like, I just can't get it by myself. I need someone else. And then could be the fact that, yeah, my hand is too close to my face, or it also could be the fact that I need someone else's medicine. Yeah, it's like, that's the beauty of interconnectedness. And then we actually truly can't do life without everybody else with us, like it's a team sport, and there's going to be, perhaps, no matter how good I am at self observing, there will be absolute times where no matter what there, I can't because that frequency I need from somebody else, they're carrying a code, an observation, an awareness, a mirror, perhaps going to be the locking key for my next release.

Rev. Rose Hope: Yes, oh, I love that. I think it's so important to have this conversation, because I think somewhere along the way, we forget that other people can be medicine for us, and in doing so, it allows them to also step into their soul responsibility and their life purpose. So it's that call or that invitation to be willing to to ask for help and to know that you don't have to carry it all by yourself. And I That's right, like, what? Thank gosh. You mean I don't have to do it alone. I just posted a little story, and it was a picture of a woman carrying. Wearing, like a dishwasher or like a dryer or something upstairs. And it was like, this comment about, like, oh, no, I got this like, you know, and that was much of my life, right? Like I got to do with my own, like, it's, it's all got to be done on my own. And, you know, brings me back to the Ubuntu philosophy. The Zulu tribe has this Ubuntu philosophy, right? That says, I am because we are, yeah. And there's a beautiful story about a man who approaches children and has this basket of fruit, and he says, if you guys want we'll do a race, and you guys can race, and whoever gets to the basket first, they'll win the basket of fruit. And so he sets it up, and he says, ready, set go. And all the kids get together, and they join hands, and they all walk to the basket.

I'm such a sweet lesson,

Rev. Rose Hope: isn't it? And and he's like, why did you guys do that? They're like, what joy is it for us if we're only there by ourselves, you know? And I think about that when I'm teaching my classes or whatever, it's like, what would I be doing if, if it weren't for these beautiful humans who are showing up for me, literally for me, you know? And I am, because we are. And I just, yeah.

so much where it's like, where, if, when I'm connecting with people. It's when I'm in my most joy, yeah? Like there's nothing that beats it when I'm in connection, when I'm in community, when, when I'm in that place where we're just jumping together, like there's nothing like that is my bliss. And I cannot do that by myself. I can't find that type of bliss just me on the couch, right?

Rev. Rose Hope: Yeah, not there, is it? Yeah? Oh, aren't you right about that? So I know we've already kind of shared a couple nuggets, but I want to kind of ask a question, because it's relevant to what I've been moving through. I did a little like, detox, or big detox, like I cut, like, all the things, anything I thought I might have an addiction or a tendency of power habit with and, like, caught it all out. So, like, sugar, sweet, like, like, all the things, and I, I ended up getting really sick. And so I've now been sick for two months. I have bronchial pneumonia right now, actually, and I had an ear infection at new human and so all the symptoms of, you know, covid or whatever, in September. And so it's been this, like, pretty long and drawn out journey. And so it's fascinating to me, having been immunosuppressed and having to heal fibromyalgia and some of the things and diagnose of IBS like so I've got some major history in the health realm. And so, you know, I think about how much progress I've made, spiritually, emotionally, you know, even physically, from, you know, working out to eating healthy, to sleeping, and all the things that you quote, unquote, should be doing. And so I got into this illness, and I thought, Oh my gosh. Like, what have I done? Like, I pushed myself too hard. I, you know, I started criticizing what I had done wrong to cause myself to get sick, right? And I thought, isn't that interesting? And so the first little bit of being sick was spent in that and I found myself ebbing and flowing over the last two months, still going back to that criticism, even though I have this awareness that, like, that's not helping me, and that there is something deeper happening, and I'm experiencing an upgrade. And you know, in fact, I did do all the right things, and that's why my body's able to actually do what it needs to. It needs to do right now, right? And I'm not in the hospital, or I'm not whatever else. So it's interesting the stories

that that kind of have been ebbing and flowing through this illness. So I'm curious to know, in the scope of Body Talk, like, is there a perception around us getting sick and whose fault it is, or, you know, where it's coming from or what it's rooted in. I'm curious to know what that might be, yeah?

So maybe I won't speak for BodyTalk, because I'll speak for myself what I've noticed, okay, for my own self. I mean, BodyTalk always says body is talking to you. So that's going to be parallel there. That's always going to be a conversation. Every symptom is a message, yeah? Like, I like to say when I'm if I'm having a cold or a flu, then I'm having to be an upgrade. I like to see, yeah, me too, yeah. I would say those upgrades, they hold a lot of information about our environment, so I like to see it that way. And so even in, for instance, in your story, you know, detoxing sometimes can then, like, reveal underlying layers. You're like, Okay, I released a bunch of stuff that was actually covering something, and then it's, I didn't cause something, I just revealed something that now,

Rev. Rose Hope: oh, I just love that so much I do cause something. I revealed something. I revealed something that is that really hit me, because I think for much of my life, it. Was this cause? Right? Like I was causing it, or an environmental factor was causing it, rather than understanding that we're just coming into new layers of experience and evolution. And so it's revealing itself. To me.

It's revealing and so there are something that, as you did your work and you were uncovering and de layering and exposing yourself, you hit a layer that said, Oh, thank you. Now it's my turn. Oh, I get to speak. I get to be a symptom to tell a story. Now with hidden underneath these other layers, thank you for doing the work so that it's my turn to be on the surface so I can reveal what my story is. I can I can speak. I can let my story be known, and I need an observer now and then, the symptoms are going to be clues to what wants to be shared. What party part is it in what? What's the emotion that's in there? We start to get curious about our symptoms versus concerned about them? You know, to that extent, the more curiosity and then sometimes it's depending. I mean, it varies. There's always concern. Sometimes, depending on the variation and how severe there, we need first aid, sometimes, for sure, right? There is always going to be a curiosity for me. I get curious. Yeah, I get really curious. Go, okay, this sucks. I feel like shit, awful. I don't know what's going on, and I'm really, really curious about what this upgrade is actually about, and what it what is my there's an opportunity in my body right now for me to listen to something that didn't have a voice before.

Rev. Rose Hope: Yeah, I love that, that it didn't have a voice before. And so now it finally has a chance to say, Hey, pay attention.

And then we go, when we go dive in, and we go into a bit of discovery of that. But okay, let's hear the story. Then, wow, yeah, this is go and then, and then, as soon as it like, I find that soon as the symptom is heard, the body part is listened to, there's such a relief. But oh, I just been holding on to that for so long. Now I can let it go and there, then your body actually goes through what people call healing, but it's not healing, it's just, it's just going back into a state where you didn't have that symptom.

Rev. Rose Hope: right? Yeah, yeah. Love that, yeah. Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. So what else to have you kind of gained in terms of your story and your experience, or your your wisdom through your body talk and your massage that you would just love for people to know, like what you know I mean, being the observer, and how powerful that is, and how that changes everything I think. And of course, these pieces around understanding that you know you've just revealed a new layer of your body. So a lot of or what your body's trying to tell you. And so adding to that, is there something that you know, that you find is a common issue that people come to you with that you're just like, oh, well, it's actually this simple. I'd love to know if there's,

yeah, in my own personal practice, maybe, because I'm a Libra, I like being balanced. I like the scale. I that's my, you know, in that, in my life's work, in gene keys, is to come out of the shadow judgment and into integrity. And so when we go into, like, these judging scales, and we have this energy here, what I like to really like, I think my, what my life's work really, truly is about, how do we bring humanity into the place where we're in the middle? Yeah, so a lot of what I talk about in my personal practice is the non judgment of the shadow noise, and how do we come into a balance, where, when? So, for instance, I could be in the shadow and have a judge a symptom as something that's bad that's happening. So therefore now I am uncomfortable in the shadow. There's something going on, and I'm judging it as wrong. Yeah, wrong versus not judging that shadow, not judging that darkness, being curious about it, understanding that there is alchemy there, there's experience there. That's going to help me with my next ascension, my next new awareness, as well as a light has that if I can stand in the middle of those two places and have a hand and a foot in the shadow and one in the light, then I'm really, really content. I find that that is some of the thing where I think that in some time in the spiritual world, we can try to, like, shut the door in the shadow and try to run and run and run towards that light, because we have this big, like, romanticism about what the light is.

Rev. Rose Hope: No, it's true, yeah.

And it's like, if we go to the the ends of either side of the spectrum, we were in distortion, yeah, true, yeah. So if we go, if I run into the light, but I go to the very end, then I'm actually afraid of the shadow, so therefore I'm in, I'm holding fear. I'm actually not in a place of neutrality. I'm in, I'm in a judgment. I'm in a fear frequency, because I think that I have to be way over here in the light, because something's going to hurt me over there. Yeah, and then same thing, if I go, Well, I don't deserve the light. I'm going to just run into the shadow and just be deep, deep, deep, over here in this misery. Then I also. Also, am in a distorted place also, and I'm judging maybe the light as being like, I'm not good enough for it, or whatever the energy behind that is, or I just can't find that. I'm just going to be the victim in the density here. But there's victimhood in both, yeah. And so when we actually find that freedom place is where we go, Okay, where is the place where I can dabble in the shadow, my shadow self, and be curious about it, and not be afraid of that, then I can actually shift that place in myself and where it can actually like be in the joy of the light and just kind of be curious and be playful in that, and not say that I need to only be there, and this is the only place I can find my joy and and there is this beautiful kind of teacher, like a thought for me too is like the reminder for me is like, when night turns to day, yeah, or when day turns to night, there's a golden sunrise and a golden sunset. So that at that place in the middle of light and dark is where golden alchemy is, is where the gold is. And I strive, and strive. When I was like, I question myself, like, oh, I should go into a shot in the shadow work more of I should go towards the light a bit more. And every time I contemplate that, and I dabble in those places, I always come back home to the center

Rev. Rose Hope: brilliant, yeah. I love that beautiful analogy of the gold alchemy, you know. And I think that's, that's what, that's the sweet spot, you know? I think for me, it's also like, I can have this and that, so I can be in grief and also have joy at the same time. And to me, that's part of that balancing act, or that's part of that golden alchemy of being okay with the fact that, like, Yeah, I've been sick for a couple of months. I've been really put through it, had lots of personal stuff to deal with. That's the season that I'm in, and I get to receive all the value and all the learning and all the magic from that too. Yeah, just like I can over here on the quote unquote, light side, right? Yeah. And so that's that I feel like is such a big part of my work right now, is like not being in a hurry to get through it, because I think that's been my MO is like, I gotta, I gotta get through this, you know? And it to me that, in a way, is almost resistance, right? Of like, why

we're not supposed to be there to better, get out of it really quick, right? Yeah, and we might miss the beautiful gold that's actually in there. So that you know that when you actually be paused, like, wait, wait, if I go to the depths of this symptom or this heart ache or this uncomfortable thing, and then I actually go right down to the root of this, and I find the reason why this was here. And I really have been the patience with that, the amount of gold that we receive, the gift that we receive in that place is like that is the ultimate high for me. And like that is the upgrade I get from diving so deep into that pain without judgment of it, like, Sure, feeling it, not biasing, feeling it, yeah, fully feeling it. Like, having all the big emotions. But in the background of those big emotions is deep curiosity, yeah. And also knowing that when I every time I go through into that depths, I always come out higher on the other side that I was when I went in. Yeah, absolutely. And then it starts to be this, like, really uncomfortable embracing,

Rev. Rose Hope: yes, uncomfortable embracing is a nice way to put it, yeah.

And I feel like, for the listeners, you know, if we can start to find comfort in their uncomfortable places. The amount of alchemy and shift and change we can do in our systems is profound that a lot of our problems and diseases and heartaches are because we don't, are not willing to sit in them, yeah, and to sit in them and breathe into them is what actually lets them actually be released. They're just, they're finally in flow.

Rev. Rose Hope: Yeah, brilliant. I love this piece on non judgment and finding neutrality. I think I think about the world, if, like, we could actually all practice non judgment. What a different world this would be, right? And I think it has to start with not judging ourselves. You know, I think that's my biggest practice right now, is like to not judge myself for whatever the experience is that I'm going through, yeah, and not until like, Oh, I'm judging myself as sick right now, right? Yeah, right, yeah. I'm judging myself as having gone into the shadow and having a bit of a dark night of the soul experience right now,

how dare you? You're a spiritual being?

Rev. Rose Hope: Yes, you're right. Yeah, totally.

of course. I can, of course.

Rev. Rose Hope: And in fact, it's necessary for me, if I want to be the student and teacher that I believe myself to be, then I've got to own it fully, right?

I mean. I don't know how many practitioners or teachers I would trust that don't know how to go into their their own shadows, right? I'm like, I don't know if I if you have never dabbled in your own shadow. I don't know if I like you dabbling in then, right? Yeah, what are you teaching? What work are you Yes, yes.

Rev. Rose Hope: I think for me too, I think I felt like I was, like, riding a bit of a high for a while, you know, I was like, in a really good groove, in a really good flow. And I think there's an aspect of humility that likes to show up for me when I'm, like, maybe pushing that edge of losing alignment, or losing my integrity, or, you know, like, and I'm not saying I did, I'm just saying, like, I feel like, Oh, I could see how if that would have progressed the way it was, how it could have been, maybe not the healthiest thing, and how spirit has now come in to say, hey, just keeping you in a space of grace here and reminding you who you are. So how brilliant, How brilliant is God is right?

Yeah, and truly. And it's like, sometimes when I get that high as well, I'm like, Oh, this is it. I nailed it, that I just kind of ride this wave until the day I die, right? Yeah. And I now, I think in the, you know, I'm not sure exactly when it transitioned. I don't really recognize exactly when that happened, but sometime along the way, I realized that's never gonna be a thing. Yeah, I'm that wave is not gonna last me till the day I die. I'm gonna have another ebb. I'm gonna have another dark night of the soul. It's so normal. And now, when they come again, I ebb and flow. I'm like, Ah, that's me today. I'm gonna be down today. I'm gonna be happy like it is what it is,

Rev. Rose Hope: yes, loving acceptance, loving acceptance of what is, yeah. And I think not only you know, is this ebb and flow important, I think it's necessary. It's necessary if we want to come into the space of expansion and enlightenment that we are here to pursue. So, yeah. So we're in for it, everybody we're in for it,

but we're vehicles that are made to feel, yeah? So for not feeling our life and whatever feelings are coming through, we're kind of missing the whole point of being human. Yeah, yeah. We got to feel it, embrace it. And if we embrace feeling, and we embrace our nervous systems, are meant to be sensory, and it's meant to experience all sorts of sensations and emotions, and then we can go, whoa. What a cool adventure this is. And I don't you know we're in these, in these vessels, these in these vehicles that have this, like ability to feel this much,

Rev. Rose Hope: these magic beings of incredible inner technology. It's wild. It blows my mind.

A really wild vehicle that we're in, like, really profound and not to provide, not to feed it with all the experiences and all the energies and all the emotions and all the ups and downs and the grit and the bliss is a disservice to all the things that it can do.

Rev. Rose Hope: Yeah, right, yeah, yeah. What reverence for our physical vessel? Yeah, beautiful, beautiful thing. Yeah, heart hard to come by sometimes, but that's something that I've really been working on over the last couple of months, and knowing that my body is going through this upgrade, and trying to hold that reverence for this beautiful vessel and commend it on what I've put it through and what it continues to endure. And sometimes that's just what the body needs is for you to say, Hey, I see you. I feel you. I hold you in high regard. Thank you for all you do. And already the body starts to say, Oh, okay. They see me, they hear me. Okay.

We're Yeah, especially as being like high spiritual beings when we're off in the spirit realms. I mean, forget about the physical body. Sometimes physical body goes, Hey, by the way, I'm also a part of you, and I also have really cool technology, and I want to bring awareness to me, to the body, so that you can stay in here, because this is also what it's about. And it's easy to kind of go, oh, the body. I can just leave it and travel and and around and forget that this is actually a deep, important part of my identity also.

Rev. Rose Hope: So, yeah, this embodiment, this embodiment piece is part of we cannot come through spiritual enlightenment without the physical vessel. That's very true.

Catch 22 when we when we first, kind of, you know, when I was first in that physical or that spiritual awareness, I would like take off out of my body all the time. I'm just, I think I'm just learning truly, the past couple years, and especially with me, I'm like, okay, groundedness. Be in my body. It's safe to be in here. You all need to escape. The safest place for me is inside. My own body. And so that is just, Oh,

Rev. Rose Hope: I love it. Pam, we can go on all night. I know having this conversation, and it's been so much fun for me. There's so many beautiful threads in there that I'm going to take with me as we leave today. But what do you have in store for people like, if they're like, I want to try BodyTalk, or I want to, I need to chat with Pam. What can they do?

Yeah, just go check out my website. It's Pamdhillon.com, so that's Dhilln with an H, so, PAMDHILLON.COM, and right there, there's my booking link. You can see all the services that I have. And if you want to try a session, you just either you can book in in person and come into my home office here in Vernon BC, or you can book in online. So doesn't matter where you are in the world, you can still experience a session, and we just dive right in. I used to add into your priorities, and that's the best way to kind of see all the things I have going on. I do group work as well, online and in person, I'm running a retreat with, actually, Kevin Preston in April in Madeira. So that's all on the website too, but for just kind of even one on one, care, yeah? Just Just try it out. Be curious, curious about it. And you never know until you try, and still harm in trying?

Rev. Rose Hope: Yeah, that's absolutely true. All it takes is a little bit of time and willingness to lean in. Thank you so much. Pam, this welcome. This has been such a wonderful conversation. Again, I've taken so much out of it. For all you listening, I hope that you have plethora of notes, or at least some mental notes about our conversation today, because there was some real potency and some real magic in it. I believe. Thank you so much for continuing to tune in and listen to when Spirit calls until next time. Be well. Bye, everyone.

Bye.

WSC Intro/Outro: So happy you could join us today, and we hope that you found comfort and inspiration with wherever you are at right now, if you feel you received a gift in today's message, please pass that gift along to a loved one by sharing this episode with them. To continue this conversation, please join me@rosehope.ca and when you do, be sure to access your free gift by signing up for the when Spirit calls newsletter. I'm looking forward to connecting with you again soon.