Our first episode of the 2026 season with March featured artists Erika Matías-De Jesús (she/they) and Olivia Robinson (he/she/they) hosted by co-curators Quajay Donnell and Robert Bell.

Olivia Robinson is a Rochester based documentarian who has a passion for being behind the camera and capturing life in its rawest form. She is dedicated to creating a space for cultural preservation and storytelling from her point of view.

IG: theorarchive

theorarchive.portfoliobox.net

Erika Matías-De Jesús aka edj is a Dominican born, NY raised multi-faceted lesbian artist currently focused on film photography. Their work is a boisterous ‘thank you’ to the immigrants and queers before her, in this moment and of the future.

IG: earth2edj

stungunedj.com

Mentioned in this episode:

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I guess it's me.

Hello.

It is you.

You're the guy.

Q. I am the guy in the hot seat.

So not sitting in Richard's seat, but I am sitting in his seat.

I guess the Richard Colon memorial seat is fully retired.

He's still with us, but we back for another exciting season.

So year four with behind the Glass, and if you've been following along our journey, we've, you know, pivoted spaces.

So we're now at Farmhouse, downtown Rochester.

Beautiful space.

We had our anniversary show there and.

And then kicked off with two amazing artists for this new season.

And, you know, as we change our format up just a little bit, instead of the three each month, we're highlighting two artists and we have some other exciting things down the road with additional spaces and, you know, bringing some of our alum back and some.

Some really fun, you know, one off shows and, you know, some other things that we want to really get involved with in this new year and, you know, kind of building the foundation for the.

The years to come, really.

Yeah.

And so shout out to Farmhouse table for hosting.

We're hoping to have them on the podcast at some point so we can.

Thank you, Jessica.

Learn more about the space.

It's great.

You know, parking right under the building, which is awesome.

Beautiful.

You get to really feel downtown from that, you know, that upper.

It's almost like being in the bridge.

Yeah, it's like being in a fishbowl almost.

Yeah, it's really cool.

Yeah.

Look at downtown.

Yeah, it looks awesome.

And also, Rob Bell, how you doing, man?

I'm good.

Good.

Happy to be here.

It was a great opening.

Yeah, we had.

We had Rob.

Many listeners may be familiar with Rob's voice since he hosted, I don't know, majority of our episodes last season.

But yeah, we appreciate you for that and appreciate you for.

For being a part of this upcoming year.

And, you know, we've got, like I said, when we talk about some exciting things, we just launched a substack.

So some.

A little more in depth looks at some of our.

Yeah, so kind of pivoting some pieces over there.

And you know, really a lot of this year is to, you know, I wouldn't even say double down, triple down, quadruple down on making sure we're Highlighting and giving space for the creatives that have, you know, really given us this, you know, ability to share their work and trust us to share their work.

I think the one thing that we learned through some of, I won't say adversity, but, you know, we ended our year on an interesting note.

We won't get into all of that, but I think what we learned out of that was that we do have a platform now, you know, and we have people who are paying attention.

That is because of the artists that we've been happy to have.

So with that platform, we want to be able to use it in a way that just, you know, goes back to our mission to uplift underrepresented artists.

And like I put in the opening article that I did for the substack, that's more than just hanging art on the wall.

You know, that's advocating for artists that's learning their stories, you know, really, really a holistic 360 view of curation and support that, you know, we may have not felt as artists, ourselves from places in the past, you know, so, yeah,

I think the thing that I've always been committed to and a lot of people often will send dms to the behind the Glass, like, well, we continue to highlight.

We continue to share people's works.

It's not like, hey, you're here for a month and see, right?

It's like we're continuing to, you know, someone's doing a photo walk.

Hey, you know, if you want to add us as a collaborator, like, we're down to collaborate, to push it out to us, or we'll just keep sharing it in our stories and people will say, thanks for sharing.

I appreciate the support.

And I'm like, oh, no, you're.

You're alumni.

You're family.

So, like, it really goes, you know, we want to continue to kind of push that and.

And use those.

Those channels.

It's one of the biggest privileges we all have is to be able to help others.

You know, it's something we take seriously on Lunchadore is helping others get their voices out.

You know, people that you want that and need the help to do that.

And, you know, behind the Glass, a big reason why we do the things the way we do them is because of what you guys did.

And, you know, you guys and Richard did to build this community and make all of us want to be better as part of that.

So this is really exciting to see the, you know, next steps and that, you know, the vibes at Farmhouse are immaculate.

Yeah, we're very appreciative to, to them for, you know, Richard started deck that relationship but, you know, really appreciative.

You know, it's a great kitchen.

You know, plug, it's a, it's a bar.

People here having a, having a drink, they're enjoying themselves.

So, you know, those amenities, you know, really definitely go a long way to, you know, you know, have folks engage in the, in the space.

But you know, as, as both of you and I've said to like, it's, you know, it's nice to be able to look out those windows and you know, kind of have that, that, you know, people look up and like, what's going on up there?

Like, I want to go see what's happening.

Like what's the light and what's the.

What's happening.

So we are truly behind the glass.

Yeah.

I got to say, like, I think, I think this is that little inflection point because the way I've always thought about is behind the glass of thing.

Like you should want to be involved and be invisible and having that opportunity.

Behind the glass of thing.

Yeah.

And when you see it, you should want to be a part of what's

going on for sure.

Which is cool.

And I don't know.

Let's dive in.

Let's dive into our interviews.

Yeah, yeah, we're.

Break or no break?

No, we're just going to dive in.

We'll do the break in between.

So we're going to, we're going to go to go to Erica first here.

Erica, how are you?

I'm good.

Thank you for, for being a part of the show.

Thank you for having me.

So this is, you know, our new format has been to record after.

So you have been in, you know, you've put your work up eight pieces.

Right.

Remind me, what was the process like finding those eight?

Did you already know like that this is, these are the eight you were going to share or.

No, it was actually hard to choose which eight.

But I think currently or while I was prepping for the show, I was taking a calotype class.

So I chose those prints that I wanted to transfer in the class.

And then I was like, oh, would it be kind of cool if I have like the original film shot and then also the calotype print?

So that's kind of how that came about.

And then those three images I would just, I was so stoked to see in Calotype.

So can you explain what calotype is?

I know we had a lot of.

There's a lot of questions when.

Yeah.

People Looked at the work and they were very interested.

So you probably have said this a million times.

I have.

And I apologize to the calotide community.

And I think people kept asking you.

It was like, one more drink.

You had another cocktail.

I know the bartender's being great at Farmhouse, but also, yeah, everyone being like, do you want another drink?

What are you drinking?

So it's an alternative printing process.

You combine two chemicals together on a sheet of paper.

That is poor calotype.

Oh, my God, I'm gonna butcher this.

They're gonna hear this at Flower City and be like, really?

And it came out.

But it was only two classes, so I don't remember the chemicals.

But it's two of them.

You mix them up, you put them on the paper, you dry it, then you take your shot that you, like, print on a special kind of paper and then you put it on there.

You put it under some UV light and then it goes through, like, a couple of wash processes.

So it's really cool.

Yeah.

And I was.

I was just so excited to see them, like, on.

Through this process.

I just did a couple months ago, like, developing, and I did printing.

Really loved printing.

Developing that.

It just took too long.

And then.

Yeah, then I signed up for this.

And that's it.

Shout out to Flower City.

Shout out to Flower City.

Oh, my God.

But it's a disadvantage of research.

When I wrote your article for the substack goes back to like, 18th and 19th century.

Yeah.

A really ancient form of processing.

Yeah.

That's awesome.

Did you know you were into that before you took the class?

Or was it more?

You were just curious?

So I actually went to, like, a winter event at Flower City and one of the artists, Jen, who's on the board and teaches the class, just like, laid out all her prints.

And I was like, oh, what's this?

Because.

So I can't paint.

Can I curse?

Yeah.

Oh, I can't paint for shit.

It's not even that serious.

So.

But I love, like.

Like, people who paint, like, looking at, like, the brush strokes and things like that on paper especially.

I love the, like, idea of mixed mediums.

So, like, photography, transferring that into, like, a printing process and like, making it its own separate kind of art.

So I saw Jen's pieces, I fell in love and she was like, take a calotype class.

And I was like, for sure.

So, yeah, just seeing her work, and again, just like the brushstroke, brush strokes, like, anything that makes me feel like I can paint.

I'm down for just, you know, don't Ask me to actually paint because it will be bad.

But yeah, so that, that's really what like brought me into it.

When you talk about things bringing you into to it, like what brought you to photography?

My stepdad, he was just, I don't know, he's like the Frida Kahlo of our home.

Was.

I guess he's so alive.

Just like fuck him though.

But no, he was always like always with a camera and I mean I think it was just like the time you just.

We don't have a phone so you had a camera.

Always had different kinds of cameras.

Was very into taking self portraits and I don't know, I really wanted to imitate him in that way and then yeah, he would like edit his photos and everything.

And so I think when I was like 11, I got my first webcam which don't Recommend Getting an 11 year old webcam but I didn't do anything about.

So maybe it's not that bad.

But then I think at like 12 I got my first camera and I was just in school every day like I would look forward to going to school so I can take pictures of my friends, get on lunapck.com and then edit the hell out of them.

Luna pic.

You taking it back?

Me and Luna pig, man, we were tight.

Those photos were horrendous though.

But yeah, it was, I think watching him and then getting my first camera.

Nice, nice.

Yeah.

Luna pick.

That brings back memories.

You gotta make sure that MySpace page was okay.

Nice.

I used to make sure like all my friends, their profile pictures are pictures that I took.

I feel like that's still the case in some, right?

Like, yeah, when you see someone's photo on social and it's your photo, you're like, okay, yeah, I guess I did.

Yeah.

Okay.

Even if it wasn't like, you know, some people are like, I need you to take, I need my portrait taken for this thing.

But then when it's like one of those one offs and you're like, oh wait, like that was at an event and I just took this picture and like they're vibing with it.

So yeah, so it sounds like your, your inspiration early was just like a really natural, organic, like liking the idea of capturing photos of people and things.

When did it transition into something that you consciously said?

I want to make this more of an art.

I think it happened when I started like collaborating, collaborating with friends on a creative side because I did some modeling when I was like younger and modeling was fun too for separate reasons.

But then I got Back behind the camera.

And I just started shooting with friends for fun, and that kind of inspired me to get into it more from the art perspective than, like, everything else that was doing.

Yeah.

And, you know, shout out to Erika J.

That was probably, like, one of my earliest collabs in that way.

I think we.

We, like, see photography very similarly and creativity very similarly.

So I think, like, collaborating with her, I was like, oh, I can, actually.

Because for a long time, and still, I guess to this day, like, I have a hard time calling myself, like, an artist or a photographer.

I'm just like, welcome to behind the Glass.

I think that's the organic.

Really the organic part of behind the glasses.

Why is this so hard?

I would say, I mean, it's a large percentage.

Yeah, it's a very, very large percentage.

Yeah.

Of folks that will say, I have a struggle.

And, you know, myself and Rob included, like, we have this, like, to say I'm a photographer, to say I'm an artist is.

Is not a natural thing to say.

I'm.

I'm.

I tell people I take photos of the moment or I capture what's happening.

I'm documenting my life and just happens to be with a camera.

And, you know, some people like it and maybe someone buy it or maybe my work's on a wall, but I'm, you know, But I think that's the beauty of the work that you do, because you don't need a title to.

To do it right.

You.

You know what you're doing, and someone will throw the title at you.

Well, you're a photographer, you're an artist, but what you do, what you're doing is.

Is definitely, you know, art.

It's definitely, you know, especially looking back at your.

Your work.

And I know I had seen your work prior to hearing you as a sidebar here is seeing you at the Eastman, which I thought was a beau or not show, but panel that Jackie, another Behind the Glass alum who also struggles with saying I'm a photographer, even though she has a photography business and takes amazing photos.

But that's the.

That's the beauty of it.

And so I remember hearing you speak about some of those.

Those things, and I thought it was, you know, cool to hear you talk about your work, but I think every person that was on that panel also said, yeah, you know, and you're up there with Berto and Rudy.

Oh, my God, so many.

You know, like, all of these folks are talented, but I think also struggle with, I guess, imposter syndrome, to put it lightly.

Yeah.

And it's so funny because I used to, I always had a lot of artistic friends, whether it was, you know, people who draw, who paint, who dance, who sing, who rap, who do poetry.

Like, I've.

I don't think I have not one not artistic friend.

But all I used to, I don't know, get a little annoyed when they'd be like, I'm not an artist.

Like, I'm not, I'm not a painter.

I just, you know, did this painting over there.

Like, shut the up.

You are an artist.

I basically said that to you a moment ago.

And I'm like, no, I'm not an artist.

No, they just do that for fun.

Well, I think that's part of it.

I've had these conversations before.

It's like when, when you.

I think it's the idea of when you don't identify so heavily with the art, just intuitively it causes you to be more curious, to be more, to explore more, to, to not play by the rules as much.

Right.

Because once you call yourself that thing, it's almost like, well, I have to do it this way because that's how a photographer would do it.

But like, if you're not so closely identified with it, it's just like, oh, I'm not a photographer.

So I can just go, you know,

I think that's serious.

I think exactly it.

Yeah, that's exactly.

Gives you freedom to do it your way when you don't.

Like, you know, I'm not like, I'm not a photographer.

Yeah.

You know, camera.

But.

And I, I think there's also like a little piece of me that fears getting bored.

And honestly I have before there was.

Before I started shooting film, I wasn't really shooting like digital photos either.

Maybe on my phone and stuff, but just not as much.

And I wasn't having as much fun.

So I just kind of let it go for a while and now I'm back and now I'm like the, you know, taking classes and learning all the, all these different processes.

So I don't, don't get bored again.

But I also don't want to say like, yeah, I'm a photographer because then like you said, like, I don't want to get pigeonholed into something or.

Yeah.

Then people start asking you to shoot weds stuff like that.

Although I would love to shoot a wedding.

I just have to shoot a wedding that like you, how much you care about these images.

Like really, I know it's your wedding and stuff.

Right.

Like, I, I think, I mean, you should listen to Rob's beyond the Glass episode where he talks about the wedding.

It was your beyond.

Yeah.

And he talks about taking someone's wedding.

And.

Yeah, it's.

It's a very interesting listen.

Yeah.

Because it, it helped him understand where he felt that.

But, you know, people do get in their minds of like, I need.

You gotta get the first kiss.

And we all know it's not the first kiss.

Or like.

Right.

Do I really, like, come on.

Like, okay, come on.

Now.

This isn't like, you know, love at first sight.

Like, you know, this is for real, but it's like the B roll.

Like, I want to go find your uncle that you reluctantly invited to the wedding and like, hang out with him for a little while.

Take pictures of that or, you know, someone having, you know, the fun that's happening behind the scenes as opposed to, like.

Okay.

Also because I'm a talker.

Yeah.

And so, like, if you let me know that you have an uncle that you reluctantly invited to the wedding, I'd be like, so what happened there?

Automatically that becomes the most interesting thing.

Right.

There's so many interesting stories that, you know, but I think people get lost in.

Okay, okay.

Bride and a groom.

Okay.

Mother to bride.

Like, those are cool.

Like, you know, those are great moments.

But I think of like, my wedding was 15 people at the wedding ceremony.

Like, it was really small, like, super chill.

And some of the photos were like, super chill too.

And we had it at the mag and then we went to dinner.

But like, it becomes more casual.

And I.

When I look at your photos, like, your photos are more about the, the vibe and.

Welcome to behind the Glass.

Because your photos are about the vibe and less about like this structured moment.

Yeah.

Like the example of your.

Your mother's backyard.

Right.

Can you tell us a little bit about that image?

It's.

Yeah, it.

It's became one of my favorite pictures.

Honestly.

My mom bought her house in Dr. She's, you know, been talking about it probably since she moved to the United States.

And so she was very proud of it.

It's a beautiful house.

She's done all kinds of stuff to it.

Oh, my God, that woman's a double tourist.

So she don't know how to stop spending money.

But I was just.

I took two cameras.

I always, whenever I travel, I usually take at least one camera and a bunch of film.

So I just woke up that morning and the thing about being on the island is everything is so slow paced.

Like, you just wake up whenever you want, Maybe you eat, maybe you Don't.

There's coffee.

I'm just, like, walking around the house, and I just sat on the.

I was behind the chair on another chair, and I kept just staring back there at, like, the light changing, the towel that was hung up, like, how it was moving.

And I took a bunch of photos.

Actually, I took, like, that photo once, which I can't believe I only shot it once.

And then I shot, like, some puddles and, like, a chancla that was on the floor, and I was like, oh, my God, I just feel so Dominican.

And this.

Everything feels so good.

Like, it really.

That was.

That was my train of thought.

Like, I feel so relaxed.

I feel so at home.

I feel so good.

Everything is so beautiful around me.

I think some of the images that I.

One of the images that I sent for, like, the preview was from my bedroom window of the mangoes that, like,

you know, such a beautiful.

Yeah.

Such a beautiful.

Right there.

I'm like, you just don't get that in the States.

You don't get that in New York.

So.

Yeah, I just.

I was in awe in that moment, really, of, like, the house.

And I have so many pictures of the house.

My mom has so many plants.

Just the house itself, there's something about it that feels so warm and fighting and, you know, I love being there.

And sometimes it's like, damn, this is my mom's hard work.

Like, you came to this country, and I get it, your dream was to come here and make money, but it was really to come here, make money, and then go back.

And I feel that.

So happy.

Yeah.

Not.

Not a lot of mango farms here.

No.

Very unfortunate thing, man.

There's, you know, right outside my mom's house, they're like, at least three mango trees.

There's avocado, like, on the sidewalk.

You know, you.

You go to put aloe in your hair, you got to go to the store to buy it.

Meanwhile, you're just walking down the street right there.

Right.

Good to go.

It's awesome.

So that's lovely.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So thank you for.

For sharing your.

Your story.

Thank you.

Yeah.

And thank you for being a part of behind the Glass.

I know.

Thank you for having me.

Now, we always talk about the.

There's only so much space that we have, and, you know, when I saw you at Eastman, I was like, duh.

Like, you've been on the list, and, like, let's kind of figure this out, and.

And I knew we wanted to start the year strong, and I'm.

I'm happy you were.

We're a part of that.

Thank you.

And speaking of starting the year strong, well, we're gonna pivot over to the other artists in this room, and I think it's.

Yeah, it's.

Look, we're starting this interview at 6:15.

Inside joke.

Right on the inside joke for the 15s.

You have to ask Olivia in person what that means.

But that is.

I mean, seriously, what.

What are the chances?

I know.

Olivia, welcome.

Hi.

Thank you for having me.

How are you?

I am tired.

I am exhausted, but I'm happy to be here.

Thank you.

So tell us.

Tell us a little about yourself.

Like what, you know, your.

Your journey to.

To photography and just creative work in.

In general.

Well, my journey.

But are you.

Are you okay with saying me calling you a photographer for a moment?

I prefer documentarian.

That's my favorite.

Because I. I'm gonna be honest.

My journey started when I was about nine years old.

And I've always had a love for photography and film just as a viewer.

So me and my dad would bond a lot watching movies of all, probably movies I shouldn't have been watching, honestly.

We'd watch documentaries together.

Reality TV show.

Like, that was my family's way of, like, bonding together.

So we got our first digital camera, which was like a Canon that was like a point and shoot double A batteries.

And I used to just go around the house recording videos of, like, me paying Barbie dolls, fake news reports.

And then I would go on, like, Windows Media, movie maker, edit them.

But I didn't know how to export them at 9, so they would just like, sit on our computer.

And once I got older, like around 12, I think was when I really started to, like, like, hey, maybe I could really do this, like, as a.

As, you know, a passion.

Then I learned how to do everything when I was around 12, 13, I had my first ever film photography class in high school when I was around, I want to say sophomore year.

So I got to learn how to load up the film develop.

We worked in a dark room.

Then I had digital photography.

After that, I had broadcast media production in high school.

So what high school was that?

Brockport.

I was in the urban suburban program.

So, like, I lived in the city.

She was like, man, what's the high school you go to?

Okay, she's like, you got everything.

Wait, you said.

The way.

The way Erica looked over, she was like.

She's like, wait, she said you talk about high school or college.

Well, at first when you're saying that, I thought you were gonna say, like, school of the arts, because I have some friends who were like, yeah, I did a dark room.

She was saying it was a struggle with.

But really, it was really natural for me.

Like, again, once my family got our first ever digital camera, I was pretty much like the only person using it besides, like my parents when they wanted to capture moments.

And I would just record videos all around the house.

So it was just like this natural draw to capture moments.

And that's one of my, like, main things.

I love capturing raw, authentic moments and like sharing them with the community.

That's my way of like, connecting with people, so to speak.

Interesting.

Your entry point.

Talked about, like, watching a lot of movies.

Yeah, because that was.

That was my entry point in photography.

I went to film school.

What were some of your favorite movies growing up?

Oh, my favorite.

Love Jones.

It was the first time I ever saw a black woman as a photographer.

Like a black lead as a photographer.

So I was like, oh, this is.

Oh, yeah.

I'm gonna be like, Nina.

I used to love Spike Lee films.

I like Bamboozle, the documentary that was one of my favorites as a child.

Players Club was a favorite movie as a child.

Classics.

You're right.

Maybe you shouldn't have.

Baby Boy was a classic in the household.

My dad used to also like older films.

So like, like the original Dracula's Frankenstein.

We watched Pinky, this film about.

I'm sure your dad ain't my dad.

I'm like, wait a minute now this

is sounding similar to my childhood.

Well, I think dads just, they don't be giving a fuck.

They be like, not black dads.

Rated R. You're gonna watch this film

classic and you're enjoy.

And my dad's like a huge, huge, like, cult classic film horror film guy.

So like Porky's Friday the 13th.

I can't even think of all the.

So you got the whole gamut.

Yes.

You guys, you got to really understand film.

I truly did.

And even with music, like the variety, like my parents, they grew up as preachers kids, so they grew up very restricted.

And I think that led them to want to raise us the exact opposite.

Now I do think maybe they should have had a little restraint, but honestly, it.

It raised me to be the.

The amazing, queer, crazy creative that I am today.

So I appreciate my parents for allowing us to have access to so much media and not like, you know, restrict what we watch.

Like, I was even watching like cross dressing documentaries when I was a child.

Like, my parents, they were like, they didn't really care.

They were like, you, you're gonna Learn about it anyway.

Why not watch something informational that'll.

Yeah, I think, I think something is to be said about like having an environment where it's not like taboo or it's not like, oh, we like.

I get that connection of understanding or seeing it like in, you know, safety of home.

Like I'm watching it, you're watching it.

I'm gonna tell you about it.

Got some questions like, let's talk about it.

I mean, I mean I watched all of Eddie Murphy's standups when I was a kid for sure should not have been watching Eddie Murphy's stand.

And I mean I was a big, you know, I was like 7, 8, 9 years old.

Eddie Murphy was like my favorite actor.

And this was like not family movie Eddie that people see today.

This was, you know, 48 hours, Beverly Hills Cop and you know, all of his like raw, delirious, like wild Eddie Murphy's.

As long as I didn't go to school, like telling Eddie Murphy joke like it was okay.

Does your red leather jacket still fit, Keely?

Oh, man, I wish.

There's this great.

Me and Robert talking about it's a great documentary was on.

It's on something right now, the documentary for Eddie Murphy.

Oh, it's on Netflix.

Yeah, it's a really great documentary.

And I remember watching it and being like, man, like Eddie Murphy back then was a wild Eddie Murphy.

But also I was like seven, eight years old, you know, going outside pretending I was Axel Foley.

Like that was like playtime on the weekends.

I'm Axel Foley, look at me.

And you know, I didn't have a leather jacket, but I did have like this like the letterman's jacket that I thought was me and Beverly Hills Cop.

So yeah, it was good times.

There's probably a photo somewhere.

You talk about an era.

I mean, you just talked about a lot of movies that you dropped.

But like the Love Jones, the Baby Boys, the Players club, like the 90s was such a ripe time for representation in black movies.

And I know you talked a lot in your article about representation and black women and black.

Yes, absolutely.

Is that influence, does that influence you in any way to create a representation that maybe we don't see anymore?

Yes.

In media especially, like I am all about again, authenticity and rawness.

So I think a lot of the times, my way of tackling representation is to be able to capture the multifacetedness and multi dimensionalness of black women and black queer people just in general.

I feel like even with the photo shoot that I did for black women is Art.

I got the emotion rage, which was so perfect because I have it tatted on my neck.

I felt like most of the time, Black women don't like to be associated with the emotion of anger, whereas I feel Black women are the most entitled to that emotion.

So in my understanding of, well, how do I represent this?

Just be as raw and authentic as possible.

I told my model, like, I don't want this to seem fake or phony.

Like, when you yell, think about somebody that pissed you off yesterday.

Think about something that makes you mad and feel that, like, from the gut of your stomach.

And I want it to come out as naturally as possible.

Don't worry about how you look.

Don't worry about how you sound.

Don't worry about what other people are doing in this room.

It's just me and you here, and we're creating art.

So just be as authentic as possible.

And I think black women are literally who inspire me to keep going every day, to create every day.

I have so many creative Black women around me because, like I said, I did go to urban suburban, and all the black girls, we didn't assimilate as easy as the black boys did.

So we all kind of, like, just, like, hung onto each other.

And a lot of my muses, my first muses were my friends, like you were saying.

Like, we would do photo shoots after school, and they really poured into my art.

So my goal is to be able to represent black women in a variety of different ways.

Not just stick them in a box or associating them with stereotypes.

Just letting black women be their authentic free selves.

I find it fascinating that the word was rage and not anger.

Yeah.

It's a very different thing.

It is because rage has.

Rages damage through things that can't be immediately fixed.

It's not an apology.

These are things that go to the core.

Yeah.

Is the rage.

The rage is the thing that you mentioned.

You got it on your neck.

Yeah.

What about, like, you mentioned that visibility of rage and that not hiding it?

Yeah.

Is that, like.

Is that the representation you have on there?

Because it should be.

It should be visible.

Yeah, absolutely.

Because I felt like a lot of times as a child, like, I was very emotional.

Like, I would cry at the drop of the job.

I'm a cancer.

I'm a crybaby cancer.

Like, I. I was an emotional child.

I used to stick to my parents.

I was very scary and anxious, and I felt like as a child, I wasn't allowed to express anger.

It was very inappropriate for children to express.

Express Anger or rage.

And then once I got older, into my adulthood, society told me, well, you can't be angry about that.

You can't be mad.

You have to just swallow it and take it.

And at some point, I literally just was like, no, I. I can't anymore.

That's detrimental to me.

So I have to release in some sort of way.

So I got this tattoo to remind me to feel all the feelings that may not look pretty or feel pretty, but they're human.

So it really is a reminder of me to just, like, humanize myself and remember that I am human.

And whatever emotions I feel are valid.

It's just all about how I express them and how I release them, not allowing those emotions to take me over, but to feel them out and let them go when I need to, you know?

Also ties to documenting the real that you're talking about, too.

Absolutely.

Like, it's not that artifice.

You're trying to capture somebody.

How do you balance.

When you have some.

When you have a subject?

You mentioned the rage, but if you're trying to capture somebody, how do you.

How do you get them in that spot?

How do you work with them to put them in that mindset you mentioned with rage?

Yeah, but, like, there's not.

I mean, each person is who they are.

Yeah, absolutely.

But it's hard for them in a different way.

And sometimes it's hard for somebody to show that when they're being.

Yeah.

Photographed.

Well, how do you get them comfortable?

Just honestly, not to sound, like, cocky.

I'm just.

That.

I'm just that guy.

Like, sincerely.

Like, yeah.

No, like, sincerely, I will walk in a room, and I.

No, like, dead ass.

My goal.

My goal in life, like, overall who I am as a person, is to make people feel seen, make people feel welcome, make people feel human, just to make, you know, that's my.

That's my nature.

So whenever I meet someone, I'm asking questions, how are you?

How have you been?

What do you like?

Like, I'm like, that type of person.

And depending on the.

Like, I just had a shoot for a show I have coming up Friday, which is supposed to basically show the different cycles that women of emotions that women go through or women or people who have periods go through while they're on their cycle.

And for both of the models, it different.

I asked them, I said, hey, when you're going through your period, what are some of the main emotions that you feel?

And I wanted it to be authentic.

I even told on them.

I was like.

Like, I want to see you look, like, down and sad.

But I don't, like, I don't need a fake cry or any of that.

Whatever is most natural to you.

What is.

What feels right for you.

I'll take it.

So, like, I don't.

If you can't scream, you don't have to scream.

If you can't cry, you don't have to cry.

If you want to sit there and look at me and disassociate, that's real.

That's.

That's how you express that emotion.

So it's more so making them, like, getting to know them, asking questions, but also accepting their display of emotion in a.

However way it comes.

What I hear is that you make people feel safe.

Yes.

That is my.

That is very important to me.

I read something because this thing in my house where, like, my daughter is, like, a complete asshole at home.

Rage.

Talk about rage.

Right?

She goes off.

She's only four.

She's about to be four, but, I

mean, that's the time to be an asshole.

Okay.

Okay.

Every day I would pick her up

from daycare and I'd be like, how'd she do today?

And they'd be like, you can stop asking that.

That was an angel here.

And I'm like, really?

And then I read an article that said that, you know, kids, when they feel safe at home and they go out other places, they hold all that emotion in because they don't feel safe.

And she's the perfect angel at school because she doesn't know if she can be herself.

Yeah.

And that the reason why she's going crazy at home is because you make her feel safe.

Yeah.

So it's a good thing.

Right.

And it reminded me.

That's why I'm like.

I feel like you make people feel safe enough to show what the world has told them not to show.

Yes.

And it's all about safety, but also just again, making them feel human.

Like, you can be yourself around me.

I'm not going to judge you.

Who am I to judge?

I've been through and done crazy things.

So it's all about making people feel seen, heard, and humanized.

For me, definitely.

Yeah.

Honesty.

Yes.

Truth.

Raw.

Authenticity.

Genuine.

And I think you can feel that in your.

The images that you.

You selected for the space, you know, from the beginning to the end of that, your run.

What was the process like for you to.

I mean, I saw the look on your face when I said.

But it's a. I think it's the realest.

Right.

Like, I think, you know, welcome to behind the glass.

Because people go through that.

Like, it's a process.

You're like, okay, I have, you know, six or eight spots or whatever I'm given.

How can I, you know, introduce myself to.

To people?

And I think you did a really nice job with the, you know, the range of images, but, you know, centered right there are people.

It's actually.

And I saw a couple folks pop in and, you know, take pictures next to it.

And just the excitement of, you know, being in a space, but also, you know, giving you your flowers.

Like, literally a lot of flowers there for you guys, which I love.

I love seeing it.

But giving you those.

Those flowers there.

So what was that.

What was that process like for you?

Honestly, I'm gonna be so real.

I've been battling imposter syndrome, like, most of my photography journey, like, even well into my.

Just record that as a drop

well into my teenhood.

And I had not filmed any or recorded anything or done, like, a official shoot since, like, September.

So I just.

I've been carrying a disposable camera and, like, playing with my film cameras since then.

But I was going through a really bad depression, and I didn't, like, pick up my camera.

And I wasn't editing.

I was just working and, like, trying to survive.

So when I got the message for behind the Glass, I was actually freaking the cause I've always wanted to do behind the Glass.

I really respect what you guys do, and I love just being able to share my art with the community.

And when you said Erica, I was like, ah, one of my fave people.

Absolutely.

And I am on the wall.

Yes.

So I was kind of freaking out because I was like, what am I gonna use?

Does it have to be, like, work that's new?

And I didn't wanna present the Rage project.

Cause I was like, I love it.

It's some of my best work and my favorite work.

But I've presented it at three different galleries.

I want to do something new.

And then I remembered I had my Muse series, which hasn't been showcased physically, at least digitally.

It has been.

And I thought, what better, better way to celebrate the closing of Black History Month and the beginning of Women's History Month than to put a bunch of beautiful black women and black queer people on the walls?

So that process was.

It was hard picking images because I have so many that I like.

And I did reach out to some of my models, except for Erica.

I wanted to surprise you.

I really did.

I was like, so it was hard.

But my sister and brother, funny enough My sister and brother, my best friend and my homegirl, they always help me with image selection.

I'll send them my favorite images and I'll be like, which ones do you guys like?

And it's.

Oh, it always coincides with my favorite.

So it helps me narrow down, like, my images.

But yeah, it was a pretty nerve wracking process just because I was doubting myself and just feeling that imposter syndrome.

But I had to remind myself, like, your art is beautiful.

It's worth seeing.

It doesn't matter how long ago it was that you picked up a camera.

Everything that you capture is worth putting on a wall.

So, yeah, that was basically the process.

And we, we always get these parallels with the group.

Sometimes it's intentional, we pick a certain group.

A lot of times it just naturally happens that, like, there are so many parallels in like the imposter syndrome conversation.

I'll just say again, like, I do think the best work happens when in that unconfident mode.

Yeah.

Because it's just like, it's something about that space.

It's almost like shooting through it.

Yeah.

You know, to use a basketball term, it's just like I just got to see one go in, you know, and then the ocean opens up.

So I do.

You know, it's interesting that you both talk about that imposter syndrome, but so many artists that I've talked to and I see their work and I'm like, what do you, what are you, like, unconfident about?

Like, that's great.

And I just think that the best work gets done when people are unconfident.

Yeah.

I think it's the overthinking that we do sometimes when you're out.

And I often piss people off when I say I wasn't thinking.

And they were like, what do you mean?

Like, that's a great shot.

I'm like, how'd you do it?

Like, how'd you set it up?

I was like, I didn't think about it.

I wasn't, I wasn't conscious of like, this is.

I was like, I thought it was cool.

I took a picture of it and it was what it was.

And there are times where, you know, there'll be a picture from years ago and I'm like, oh, I kind of vibing with it now.

And someone's like, what would you think?

I'm like, I thought I hated it at first, and then I thought I liked it and then I thought, maybe I'll put it out in the world and, you know, kind of go with it.

But I think, to Rob's point, and I think.

I hear that.

Not I think, but I hear that.

And in both your journeys, where it's.

When you're not conscious of that, when you're telling someone, just scream.

When you're sitting in your mother's backyard, you know, appreciating what she did to get there, and you're like, wow, that, you know, towel hanging.

There is a moment or this mango tree that, you know, maybe they.

That maybe she takes for granted outside her house, but you, you know, kind of revel in, like, it's.

It's a moment that you capture.

That's less of a. Oh, man, I have to wake up, grab my camera.

I have to go out and get these 10 photos, which I think we've all had to do at some point, where it's like, all right, I'm on assignment.

I'm doing this thing.

Or somebody wants these things intentionally.

But then those photos are.

Or those images often good.

But, man, the stuff that you did outside of that, like, you know, Rob, you know, working as a.

As a reporter for years, you know, you go out and I did the same thing.

I'd go out with a checklist.

Yeah.

Get a portrait.

Get this, get that, get this.

And then I'd go off on my own little journey, and then they would use half this stuff from my journey, and I'm like, yeah, but that wasn't a checklist.

Now we really vibe with it.

I was like, yeah, me too.

Because I wasn't thinking anymore, you know, so that's.

Whenever.

Oh, sorry.

No, go ahead.

Whenever I like.

Because I've been really loving the double exposures, which I used to, again, do on those editing sites and whatever app I had on my phone, but now doing it on film, I. I'm always.

I always can't help but laugh when I got a picture that people are, like, really with.

They're like, oh, this is nice.

Or even, like, my wife will say, oh, babe, I really love that one.

How'd you do that?

And I'm like, I don't know.

I was like, I put the double exposure on my camera.

I took one picture.

I was like, the first picture, definitely.

I'm way more intentional.

The second one, I was like, maybe this.

Maybe if I just.

And then, you know, those end up being the ones, you know, people really like or I really like as well.

And I'm like, yeah, didn't put a lot of thought into that one.

But most of the time, most of us don't know what the hell we're doing are unconfident about things.

I mean, make mistakes.

These are all the things that make us human.

And I think when we allow that to come through the creativity.

That's why I said you shoot through it.

It's like even though you both say you've had imposter syndrome or you were unconfident, you still decided to pick up the camera and do it.

So that mixture of I don't really know what I'm doing, or like Q said, I don't know why I'm taking this picture, but I should take it.

It's that mixture of being human and not knowing but doing it anyway that, like, makes a great product.

I think there's also something special about when you are down a little bit.

I know for me, as somebody who's trying to help others do their thing, when I get to sit down and just do this or interview somebody, I might be having a garbage week and feeling really bad about myself.

And that's the time you needed it the most.

Yeah.

Was when you got to bring that passion back out and you got to just try.

Yeah.

That moment.

You don't know how much you needed it until you just started.

And then you start and you're like, I'm captured something because my inner.

My inner passion needed to get out.

It had to.

And sometimes you don't know it because you're so into your own head.

I know that's where I get is like, you know how good you are at what you do.

Yeah, right.

Like, you both know how good you are at what you do, but you get in your own head and then you start and you're like, you know what?

Yeah, that's.

That's right.

Yeah.

If overthinking was a job, I'd be a millionaire, maybe even a billionaire.

I'll be in a different tax bracket.

Over think over.

Think over.

I think.

So I think we're take a quick break here, and then we're going to come back and maybe we call this news segment after the break.

Talk your shit.

Love it.

But we'll be right back after this break.

What a beautiful commercial break.

Off mic.

And also the actual break.

I don't know what's in the middle there, but it was great.

So we're back for, you know, kind of the last segment and before we go to what I guess we'll now call talk your shit, which, you know, you'll be able to plug things.

Coming up.

I just want to touch on one quick point because I know, you both had mentioned it vaguely.

You said, Erika J.

You talked about the Black Woman as art.

Can you just like give us a high level?

You know, what was that experience like for you?

And I know we were all, all recently, you know, sharing Coco's post about like, making sure that space remained.

It's relevant, right?

It's a very relevant space.

But that it remains here in the city.

You know, I know you both connected through that space as well, as well as other stuff.

So just kind of talk about that a little bit, Erica and Coco, but just that overall experience with.

Because I think oftentimes people say, well, there's not, you know, who are the, you know, women or queer folks of color in the city doing the work?

And they're like, I can't find any.

And so they go and find, you know, the same couple of photographers or same couple of creatives.

So yeah, yeah, for me, this show, the Black Women as Art show, was just such an amazing experience.

Like I said, I've been working with Erica now.

I think actually maybe like a year or two ago, I shot her in my backyard at my house and with a camera.

Yeah, she is alive.

It's like the third time where you've had to clarify someone being alive.

So go ahead.

You imagine she'd probably let me, Erica, what if I, like, shot you for a photo?

Sure, sure.

So, yeah, I posted about it and I was like, oh, Eric and I have been collaborating 10 plus years.

And then when I really thought about it, I was like, no, it's been way longer than that.

Like, so I'm, I'm at a place with Erica where she just has to ask me and I'm gonna say yes, like, and vice versa.

I'm, you know, working with Flower City and being one of the artists in residence there.

I'll be having my own show, hopefully.

Shadow Flower City Art Center.

I'll be having my own show there hopefully this year in the fall.

And I've already reached out to Erica and, you know, said, you're gonna do this?

And she's like, yeah, just tell me when.

So when she told me about this show, I think there was like an event prior where she.

Cause again, when I tell you, like, Erica and I think so much alike, we both love photography, but we also both love to talk to people.

And I think you as well like connect with that.

So she had an event where it was a bunch of, you know, women and non men and we talked about relationships and it was like, you know, folks were encouraged to bring their Cameras and take pictures.

And from there, that was like, the start, I guess, of the black women is art show.

So again, I just.

I said yes blindly, if I'm being honest.

And then the more she told me about it, I was like, this is beautiful because, like, you don't really see this a lot.

Like, you.

You see a lot of shows in Rochester, and not to discredit absolutely any photographer or any artist, but, like, a lot of them are CIS het white men.

Like, this show, from the models to the photographers, like, it just wasn't that.

And you don't see that.

And so that, like, the more Erica talked about it, the more I was like, yeah, no, I'm definitely down.

And, you know, I got to work with an amazing model, Brianna, and our emotion was peace, like serenity, which, funny enough, doesn't really come easy for me.

But the model.

Unless there's an aloe tree.

Yeah, yeah.

But I'm even that, like, I'm doing something with the aloe.

I'm not just relaxing with the aloe in hand.

You know, it takes so much for me to chill.

But, yeah, I had a great experience.

I had met Coco a few times before.

I'd been in that space when it was owned by Adrian.

Shout out to the gatekeeper.

Miss them so much.

Miss them so much.

But, yeah, I, I.

What was the question?

Oh, you answered it.

No, you got it.

You answered it.

Oh, my God, you answered it.

For black women is art.

You can't give me a mic.

We were talking about signs earlier.

I'm a Libra moon and I used to do spoken word.

I know I don't look like it, but I.

No, no, I could see the energy.

Yeah, we could feel it.

I used to also like the cadence and how you're.

The rap is the part that people don't expect.

Okay?

So I.

Every time I say it, I'm like, edj.

That's maybe a new one.

Yeah.

So

that.

All that to say is that once I have a mic in front of me, all I can do is talk.

You gotta, like, real quick.

Olivia, would you like to answer the question?

Oh, my.

I've been dying for this question.

I will.

I was literally thinking about it the other day.

I was like, I will never stop talking about black woman as art.

Because it literally changed my life in a way that I didn't expect it to.

I found it through Coco's page, and funny enough, I forgot.

I think I got connected with Coco through Instagram somewhere, and I saw she was having a black woman photographer Meetup.

And I think that's where I saw you for the first time and Erica J.

And everybody else.

And after that, I just stayed in connection with Coco, started using her studio, which I love.

I love Coco Studio.

I suggest everybody go and please keep that space alive because it is literally a necessity for black queer people in Rochester.

But she reposted the application for it and I was like, this sounds awesome.

Let me sign up.

I had no clue what I was signing up for.

And when I got accepted, I got the emotion Rage.

When I went to the photo shoot, I didn't know I was gonna.

I don't know if I.

Well, I'm gonna.

I got paid.

I didn't know that was a part of it.

Real nice.

Okay.

Shout out to getting paid.

Shout out to getting.

Yeah.

Hey, don't even have to.

Yeah, because I think that's very important.

I think that was the thing that really was like, oh, y' all really value me as an artist.

Like, it helped me get my prints ready.

And then when I got into the space to hang up my art, you, Deja Dominique, were such great helpers, like in helping me, like, curate my exhibit and how my space was gonna look.

And they were like, take the main room.

I brought this little dodgy little flat screen TV to pay my visual because I always.

I usually always have a visual element with my photography because videography is literally my main media mostly.

But I love both.

And they were like, no use the big TV take up the main space.

Like, you guys were all just super, super, like encouraging and insightful.

Like, I got so much wisdom and so many connections and resources from Black Woman is Art.

So it was.

It's such an amazing program and keep that alive too.

I don't know if any people with money are listening.

Funded.

Fun Black Women is art.

Fun to per.

Also, there's another space I'm a plug in called the Lab, which is a creative space that you can rent for photo shoots, events.

It's owned by poet Jordan Page.

She is a black queer disabled business owner and poet.

Amazing space.

Always putting on events for the community.

Always uplifting the community.

Just a great, safe space for black queer people.

So, yeah, Black Woman is art.

Shout out to Erica J. Shout out to Zaria, please.

If anybody is listening.

Keep.

Keep Black Woman as art alive.

Like, we want to have a third show.

We do.

Send that money.

I don't know.

Send the money in.

City of Rochester.

Information is.

But if you look them up on Instagram, Facebook, tick tock.

It should be funded by City and

Rogers, Erica is a Year One alum.

So it's.

So is.

Yeah.

Remember we were sitting and talking about the, you know, we're talking about your show and some of the Year One folks, you know, Erica J. Coco, Jackie, these are all folks from.

From Year One alum.

That.

But I, you know, I know we're.

We're gonna wrap up here in a moment, but I just wanted to give you guys the opportunity to talk about that because I, I know that's how, you know, you connected in.

In some way, but also I think it's important to, you know, give that some, you know, a platform as well, just to talk about how your journeys to.

To each other.

But I also know how, you know, important it is for.

For the community and, you know, the folks rallying behind making sure, you know, in the.

Geez, 11th hour, more or less, you know, making sure we got at least another month or two to go and, you know, how can we.

We move forward and have those spaces.

Yeah, absolutely.

Thank you.

So how can folks find you?

If they're looking for you, you know, and your work, how do they find you?

So for me, you can find me on Instagram @earth2edj.

I have a website.

Please go on it because I pay for that every year.

I don't know if anyone.

It's a really nice website.

It's a great website.

I've been on it before.

And I was like, oh, I didn't know she modeled.

You know how many people, though, be like, you should.

You don't have like an Instagram page for your.

No, it's on my website that I paid like almost $30 for a month.

So go on there.

Also, you know, restrictions on Instagram also.

I don't want to manage two Instagram accounts.

So Instagram shout out to.

Not wanting to.

Yeah, like, you know, people always like, oh, you should have.

The separate.

One is me managing behind the glass and two other ones that I managed.

I'm good.

I don't need to have three.

That's a lot.

No, it's four.

I managed.

I don't need to have another personality.

That is me too, literally.

And I think because my photography is me.

So it just doesn't make sense to have like a whole separate.

Right again also because.

So what's the.

What's the website?

It's stun gun.

Edj.com sun gun used to be sung on yourself.

Used to be my Instagram handle for years.

So.

Okay.

I love it.

Olivia, you can find me on Instagram at the or archive.

I also have a website.

It's the or archive.portfolio box.net's me on that.

I usually really only use Instagram and as far as like posting my work, Instagram, my website, and then Facebook, don't look me up on here.

And then you can catch me in real life.

Real talk.

Like, I'll be outside sometime.

So, like, if you see me, say, hey, say what's up?

Awesome.

If you want to shoot, hit me up.

I love it.

And I.

And I just want to plug that.

If you want to learn more about these two artists, there are two articles up on our new sub stack right now.

So subscribe to that amazing article to just learn a little more behind, you know, the great work that you saw and heard about in this episode.

So just wanted to plug that search

behind the Glass on substack.

That's all you got to do.

Yeah.

And then you can find.

Find Rob's work.

What?

By Rob Bell, everywhere.

Oh, yeah.

But why would they want to do that?

I haven't posted a photo in months.

Yeah.

Stay tuned for us.

I'm too busy.

Stay tuned for some more from Rob Bell on the lunch or podcast now as well.

We're looking forward to working with Rob Moore.

Yeah.

Q.

Any place you want people to find your stuff.

I mean, I'm outside too, sometimes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Come and check out the stories because I'll, you know, be posting the.

The work of great folks out there.

And maybe when the weather changes a tinge, maybe I'll.

I'll be outside.

Outside.

Oh, I feel that means in the summer, then you can get in the winter.

I'm in the house.

Not fake spring.

Real spring.

Yeah.

Well, if you want to check out all the other shows on the lunch at our podcast network, go to lunch door.org check out some of our new shows.

So, like, Rob Bell just joined the network with Plants and Beats.

Looking forward to catching some of those lo fi beats and talk about plants on the network.

We have a show coming up with librarians called Readers Advisory.

We're doing Rochester's Book Club.

We're super excited about that.

We have a lot of stuff going on.

A lot of fringe previews for Pittsburgh coming up that I've recorded.

Really excited for everybody to hear those.

So go to onshore.org and we'll see you next time on behind the Glass.

This has been a presentation of the Lunch Network.

Oh, when the librarians come.

I can't wait.

I can't wait to see that.

Catch us all outside.

Shout out.