Mike Garrison: Hey, Carl, what's going on? Dude?

Mike Garrison: How's it going.

Carl J Cox: How you doing? Bro.

Mike Garrison: Man. I'm doing great.

Carl J Cox: Okay, we got all that stuff. Good. So have you. Did you do any hunting or fishing this past weekend?

Mike Garrison: Fishing. I don't. Hunting takes takes me away from fishing.

Carl J Cox: So, okay, so your priority is the fishing side. And okay, okay, cool. I was just because why did I assume? Maybe because I saw you in your camo gear. I assumed you were hunting then. But you you

Carl J Cox: primarily just fishermen.

Carl J Cox: Yeah, okay.

Mike Garrison: Because I like to fish for wild trout, and they're pretty spooky.

Carl J Cox: Oh, okay. All right.

Mike Garrison: So try your.

Carl J Cox: You're.

Mike Garrison: Yeah.

Carl J Cox: You're in ninja mode. Then.

Mike Garrison: Well, I mean as ninja as a fat older guy can be

Mike Garrison: true story.

Carl J Cox: Oh, man! So good!

Mike Garrison: My goal is not to fall down

Mike Garrison: when I'm fishing. It's like it's not to fall in and bash my knees

Mike Garrison: so.

Carl J Cox: That's so. Do you catch any good fish? This weekend.

Mike Garrison: No, it was it was different. It was different because

Mike Garrison: I've been kind of in a funk spiritually for about a year and a half.

Carl J Cox: Really.

Mike Garrison: Just really struggling and like prayer. Life has been awful right, you know, and basically I cause I came to. I came to faith later in life, through A, B and I group

Mike Garrison: through Referral Group.

Mike Garrison: And so I I never have connected with church Christianity.

Mike Garrison: Right. And so, and every time I do I default into this

Mike Garrison: facsimile of who I am

Mike Garrison: right. And so and I've one of the st books I read that really spoke to me was John Eldridge, wild at heart, like it was a I don't know if you've read that book, but it was a good

Mike Garrison: I I kind of moved away from it because I had gotten really excited. My dad not was not a Christian.

Mike Garrison: and I shared the book with Dad and was like, Hey, dad, this book is like, why, I feel like you're I became a Christian because of how you love me. You love me like this.

Mike Garrison: like God loves people in this book.

Mike Garrison: It didn't work. Dad died

Mike Garrison: an unbeliever. I was holding his hand. It was awful right.

Carl J Cox: Oh, man!

Mike Garrison: And so like I've been like I I really have been in a funk ever since my dad died

Mike Garrison: just and like everybody's like, well, you know my God's in charge. You don't know that he wasn't saved. I'm like, actually, I have a great degree of confidence

Mike Garrison: because of the conversation that he wasn't

Mike Garrison: I? I would love nothing better. But I don't live the platitude life.

Mike Garrison: you know. I've got a severely disabled kid platitudes just offend me

Mike Garrison: right. They just don't work. I don't often react to them. I just kind of like, okay, whatever you know. But so anyways, long story short.

Mike Garrison: Eldridge

Mike Garrison: just came out with cinema

Mike Garrison: quality videos

Mike Garrison: about wild at heart.

Carl J Cox: Oh, wow!

Mike Garrison: On Youtube.

Mike Garrison: on you, and they are. They're amazing. He had thought about having them on Netflix. That's how how good they were.

Mike Garrison: And and so I I've known about him for about a month, Carl.

Mike Garrison: but I I watched it for a little bit. Oh, I gotta do something else right?

Mike Garrison: And so finally, I was so frustrated with my, you know.

Mike Garrison: sin, life and everything

Mike Garrison: I was. You know what

Mike Garrison: I'm gonna sit down and watch a prologue, and it was freaking, beautiful.

Carl J Cox: And.

Mike Garrison: It was John Eldridge.

Mike Garrison: Fly fishing was kind of the theme

Mike Garrison: at the end of it. He's like, I realize that every time I go fly fishing. I'm looking for my dad, and I never find him.

Carl J Cox: Oh, wow! That put the hair on the back of my neck.

Mike Garrison: Yeah. And then the then the st episode is this dude from Wales.

Mike Garrison: who's a world famous artist doing stuff I've never seen before. He basically etches

Mike Garrison: on cowhide

Mike Garrison: big skins

Mike Garrison: and creates these

Mike Garrison: I've never like. I grew up in Washington, DC.

Mike Garrison: Dupont Circle, Georgetown Galleries. My dad used to frame for the National Gallery of Art. Like so like I've been to Rodin, I've been to all the stuff right?

Mike Garrison: It's like it's not that I dislike local art. It's gotta be art. But you know.

Mike Garrison: anyways, that

Mike Garrison: stuff reconnected me. And so the whole way down

Mike Garrison: to go fishing. It's about our drive to where I wanted to go fish.

Mike Garrison: because I have a less chance of falling at that place

Mike Garrison: because it's flatter.

Mike Garrison: I mean, I have to wear knee pads, Carl. It's pitiful.

Mike Garrison: And so like cause, I've got bad knees as a paratrooper. So anyways, whole way down, I'm listening to a podcast that Eldridge is doing about the prologue about the st episode.

Mike Garrison: And I'm like.

Mike Garrison: like, and this one guy

Mike Garrison: Mark, that st episode is like he goes every time I tried to do it. I was the st guy at church, the last guy to leave. I tried to fit in the box, and I don't fit in the box, and then I realized, God isn't in the box. God is wild and God like, and I'm like, Oh, and I was like, Oh, I mean, I really

Mike Garrison: I really it was. It was a great experience. It was great. I only caught fish, but I really was kind of meditating as opposed to.

Carl J Cox: Yeah.

Mike Garrison: Really fishing, and which is fundamentally what I'm looking for. So anyways.

Mike Garrison: That's what's going on. And so that's why I sent you that audio clip

Mike Garrison: because this podcast.

Mike Garrison: Is a

Mike Garrison: a, really.

Mike Garrison: if it works well, a really subtle and really sneaky call to faith.

Mike Garrison: yeah, Luke, 

Mike Garrison: is

Mike Garrison: price marketing plan

Mike Garrison: right?

Mike Garrison: Set the out, out, by Find a person, they receive your piece, there remain.

Mike Garrison: And and so that's really what this podcast. Is about. It's what the new book is going to be about, why should I refer you? Is the book.

Mike Garrison: My tagline is the most important word is the last word you.

Carl J Cox: Yeah, yeah, right.

Mike Garrison: Because at the core of this system is that human beings are

Mike Garrison: unbelievably precious and unique.

Mike Garrison: right and and like, you're worthy of being referred.

Mike Garrison: if you're human.

Mike Garrison: But now we got to get other people involved

Mike Garrison: right.

Carl J Cox: Exactly. Yeah.

Mike Garrison: That's ridiculous. But, anyways, how are you doing.

Carl J Cox: Doing well. No, I appreciated the

Carl J Cox: the transparency. I shouldn't be surprised. You're very transparent. But I appreciated the transparency on the face. It's interesting.

Carl J Cox: well, actually, I'll share with you. It was it was really good. So

Carl J Cox: This was last night when our our call with

Carl J Cox: call with my kids. So of my were on the call, and

Carl J Cox: anyways, but this is this is this is a Seth Holbrook. And so my son played football with this kid. He's years. One of my sons played football with him, says my heart is full.

Carl J Cox: days ago I tore my acl.

Mike Garrison: Hmm.

Carl J Cox: Tonight I toured again.

Carl J Cox: so do not do not mistake the red eyes and tear streak faces for sadness. Over the last year there's been plenty of pain and disappointment

Carl J Cox: at times felt like wave after wave, physical, emotional hurt. I'm skipping over little things. It's not for the hurt, the joy of sharing the field with my friends and teammates might be diminished.

Carl J Cox: not for the struggle I might not see and love my family as they do now, not for the pain I might not know, and this must be his girlfriend.

Carl J Cox: I can see Christ working through the storm. I know that nothing happens outside of his control, and that he will use all things for my ultimate good.

Carl J Cox: so thankful for that he's chosen to work in broken places and through broken people.

Carl J Cox: Even now I see Christ clearer than yesterday. I rejoice, knowing that he will continue to use my broken body to mold me into the image of Jesus. My heart has never been fuller. God has never been more gracious and more merciful to me than he is right now, so I'll continue to go. The journey of joy and rest of hope in him. I'm looking for me years from now, standing in the presence of my Savior, praising Him for the way he used this period of time in my life for glory and good.

Mike Garrison: Not a bad call?

Carl J Cox: And

Carl J Cox: and so what? What was what? Why, I bring this up is is

Carl J Cox: It's been good. I'm a bike

Carl J Cox: by my

Carl J Cox: build. How, how I was made. As I am a I'm a doer achiever st over people. That's that's why how I operate.

Carl J Cox: But I

Carl J Cox: recognize the importance of I love my wife. Love my kids, love, you know, but I'll recognize if there's a a doubt of often I'll take a path to do rather than to be.

Mike Garrison: And.

Carl J Cox: You know, and and so I've been. I've been reflecting on this a lot. I mean, I do a pretty good job of daily Bible reading.

Carl J Cox: You know. Pretty good job of of praying daily.

Carl J Cox: but

Carl J Cox: sometimes you we miss. I. Miss

Carl J Cox: Ims is

Carl J Cox: it. All he's asking is to be

Carl J Cox: like him, to be in him, to be with him right is to be in his presence.

Carl J Cox: because we can't do anything that will overcome the Grace. Right? It's just the grace that's been given. And so I'm just sharing this in my own self-reflection. It's for whatever reason it's been hitting me more because when I had my the Hernias surgeries.

Carl J Cox: the part of this is I wanted to get back to the hernia that I mentioned, while everyone was saying where there were you know, everyone was like saying, out of I was like, of course, in my head, I'm like, you guys are a bunch of liars. But outside of outside, but maybe they were, and you know, maybe they were wonderful. But what bothered me.

Mike Garrison: Out of 

Carl J Cox: Exactly.

Carl J Cox: But what bothered me last night was when this was happening. I was not like this kid, Seth Holbrook.

Mike Garrison: Oh, yeah.

Carl J Cox: You know. And and so here, this year old kid.

Carl J Cox: last night, just put this. I'm embarrassed now, looking back

Carl J Cox: at what I just went through the last months, because here I have an opportunity

Carl J Cox: to

Carl J Cox: B or and I did not.

Carl J Cox: I complained more. I struggled more. I you know I did not do the things that I could have, and anyways, it's a little self-reflection on my own journey, and here, by the way, I was not. I did not grow up a believer, but at college I became a believer and

Carl J Cox: and so yeah, it's it's this journey is the good news about reading the Bible? Is this everyone, every single one, except for Jesus, who, of course, because he's God.

Mike Garrison: Oh, yeah, okay, I you know I I take great comfort from the fact that everyone else complained.

Mike Garrison: You're like, I've I've resigned. I'm not, Elijah. I'm not taking the fast train right like, I'm not going to be gathered home like that. So I'm like, Okay, well, I'm here right? And so like I would just encourage you. It's like like, and it's not. I don't come at this from cynicism.

Mike Garrison: but I like when I hear stuff like that

Mike Garrison: I

Mike Garrison: I just think it's beautiful.

Mike Garrison: Yeah.

Mike Garrison: right? I I don't know his heart. I don't know him. I don't know what's really going on, and I've seen too many

Mike Garrison: men, let alone women

Mike Garrison: that work that God works through, and they say beautiful, wonderful things that make a difference in my life

Mike Garrison: only to discover that they were just as struggling as much as I was in a different way. And so I'm not diminishing him at all. In fact, I think I'm actually like

Mike Garrison: appreciating what it really is. It's just this beautiful, wonderful

Mike Garrison: act of worship to share that right.

Carl J Cox: And.

Mike Garrison: And and and I I wish him nothing but more

Mike Garrison: of that.

Mike Garrison: Right, you know. It's like people ask me.

Mike Garrison: They always try to understand what it's like being the dad that I am with the son, with the massive challenges. And and I always tell them I'm like you don't really want to know.

Mike Garrison: like I said, you just don't want to know, because it's not helpful for you.

Mike Garrison: and it's also not necessarily helpful for me

Mike Garrison: to describe how tough it is, I said. What you do need to know

Mike Garrison: is how it changed me

Mike Garrison: right. It didn't remove sin from my life.

Mike Garrison: It did not.

Mike Garrison: It did not make me a better person.

Mike Garrison: but it gave me an opportunity

Mike Garrison: to

Mike Garrison: grow

Mike Garrison: and be used in spite of myself.

Mike Garrison: You know, and people will come to me like man. I'm so inspired by how you share about your son. I'm like, really

Mike Garrison: like, okay, I mean, like, I, initially, I'm like, why, like, I'm just talking about how awful it is. So like, Oh, it's so inspirational, I'm like.

Mike Garrison: you know, and like, and I and then I used to get offended, Carl, because they'd be like, well, what inspired me is you didn't leave, I'm like, was that an option.

Carl J Cox: And.

Mike Garrison: And like. So I like, why? Why? Why am I getting adulation

Mike Garrison: for doing the absolute minimum standard

Mike Garrison: like? Don't abandon your family

Mike Garrison: woo. That's admirable, right? But but I've gotten past that now. It's like, okay.

Mike Garrison: fundamentally, one of the reasons God has taken me. I believe this, and I know it. The reason he's taken me is, I've had a couple of clients say to me, you know, Mike, one of the most important things about work with you as a coach right?

Mike Garrison: The least profitable thing I do, by the way, but one of the the most important things is, I know that there's nothing I can bring to you

Mike Garrison: that you can't handle.

Carl J Cox: Hmm.

Mike Garrison: I went. Well, don't. It's not a challenge.

Carl J Cox: Okay.

Mike Garrison: Quick!

Mike Garrison: It's not a contest.

Mike Garrison: Don't.

Carl J Cox: Yeah. What else do you have for me? God.

Mike Garrison: It's like, it's like, like, you know, you're doing well. You're blessed. This is good. So anyways, this is really what the podcast. Is about

Mike Garrison: like when you get down to it. Carl. Did I send you the questions.

Carl J Cox: And yeah.

Mike Garrison: I guess.

Carl J Cox: well, maybe you did. But I just listened to the recording part, so.

Mike Garrison: Yeah, it's good.

Carl J Cox: No, I I've done a couple of these, so we'll be okay.

Mike Garrison: Good. Yeah. The the basic concept is is exploring the intersection

Mike Garrison: between being thoughtful enough and professional enough to anticipate needing to answer this question, why should I refer you?

Carl J Cox: Right, right.

Mike Garrison: Also understanding the the intrinsic opportunity

Mike Garrison: that is offered to you doing business this way?

Mike Garrison: Right? Yes, yeah. Yeah. And and what what scares some of my clients is they're they're like, this is a freaking love story. I'm like, yep.

Carl J Cox: Yeah.

Mike Garrison: This is what it is right, you know.

Carl J Cox: It really is, because.

Mike Garrison: Like one of my favorite books, is raving fans.

Mike Garrison: And when you look at raving fans, raving fans is a story about...

GMT20241022-190930-Recording-converted:

Hey, Carl, what's going on, dude?

2

How's it going?

3

Man, I'm doing great.

4

Okay.

5

We got a lot of stuff.

6

Good.

7

So have you, did you do any hunting

or fishing this past weekend?

8

Fishing.

9

I don't, hunting takes,

takes me away from fishing.

10

Okay.

11

So your priority is the

fishing side and okay.

12

Okay, cool.

13

I was just, cause why did I assume

maybe cause I saw you in your camo gear.

14

I assumed you were hunting then, but you.

15

That's right.

16

Fisherman.

17

Yeah.

18

Okay.

19

Because I like to fish for wild

trout and they're pretty spooky.

20

Oh, okay.

21

All right.

22

Yeah.

23

Try it.

24

Yeah.

25

You're ninja mode then.

26

As ninja as a fat, older guy can be

27

true story.

28

Oh man.

29

My goal is not to fall down

when I'm fishing with it's not

30

to fall in and bash my knees.

31

So yeah.

32

So do you catch any

good fish this weekend?

33

No, it was it was different.

34

It was different because I've

been in a funk spiritually

35

for about a year and a half.

36

Like really just really struggling and

like prayer life has been awful and

37

Basically, I am because I came to faith

later in life through a BNI group through

38

a referral group And so I never have

connected with church Christianity Right.

39

And and every time I do, I default

into this facsimile of who I am.

40

And and I've, one of the first

books I read that really spoke to

41

me was John Eldredge while at heart.

42

It was a, I don't know if you've

read that book, but it was a game.

43

I moved away from it because

I had gotten really excited.

44

My dad not was not a Christian

and I shared the book with dad.

45

It was like, Hey dad, this book is

like, why I feel like you're, I became

46

a Christian because of how you love me.

47

You love me like this, like God loves

people in this book and didn't work.

48

Dad died, an unbeliever.

49

I was holding his hand.

50

It was awful.

51

Oh man.

52

And I've been, like I really have

been in a funk ever since my dad died.

53

Just, and everybody's my god's in charge,

you don't know that he wasn't saved.

54

I'm like, actually, I have a great

degree of confidence because of

55

the conversation that he wasn't.

56

I would love nothing better, but

I don't live the platitude life.

57

I've got a severely disabled kid.

58

Platitudes just offend me.

59

They just don't work.

60

I don't often react to them.

61

I just okay, whatever, but so

anyways, long story short, Eldridge

62

just came out with cinema quality

videos about wild at heart.

63

Oh, wow.

64

On YouTube.

65

And they are.

66

They're amazing.

67

He had thought about

having them on Netflix.

68

That's how good they were.

69

And so I had, I've known about

him for about a month, Carl, and

70

I watched it for a little bit.

71

Oh, I got to do something else.

72

And so finally, I was so frustrated

with my, sin life and everything.

73

I was, you know what, I'm going

to sit down and watch a prologue

74

and it was freaking beautiful.

75

It was John Eldredge, fly

fishing was the theme.

76

At the end of it, he's I realize that

every time I go fly fishing I'm looking

77

for my dad and I never find him.

78

Oh, wow, that put the hair

on the back of my neck.

79

Yeah, and then the first episode is this

dude from Wales who's a world famous

80

artist doing stuff I've never seen before.

81

He basically etches on cowhide.

82

And creates these,

83

I've never I grew up in Washington, D.

84

C., DuPont Circle, Georgetown

Galleries, my dad used to frame

85

for the National Gallery of Art.

86

I've been to Rodin, I've

been to all the stuff, right?

87

It's it's not that I dislike

local art, it's gotta be art.

88

But, anyways.

89

That stuff reconnected me.

90

And so the whole way down to go fishing,

it's about an hour drive to where I

91

wanted to go fish because I have a

less chance of falling at that place.

92

Cause it's flatter.

93

I have to wear knee pads, Carl.

94

It's pitiful.

95

And so cause I've got bad

knees as a paratrooper.

96

So anyways, all the way down,

I'm listening to a podcast that

97

Eldridge is doing about the

prologue about the first episode.

98

And I'm and this one guy marked that first

episode is he goes every time I tried

99

to do it, I was the first guy at church.

100

The last guy I leave, I tried to fit

in the box and I don't fit in a box.

101

And then I realized God isn't in the box.

102

God is wild and god and i'm

like, ah and I was like, oh, I

103

really it was a great experience.

104

It was great.

105

I only caught a few fish, but I

really was meditating as opposed

106

to Really fishing and which is

Fundamentally what i'm looking for

107

so anyways That's what's going on.

108

And so that's why I sent you that

audio clip because this podcast Is

109

a really if it works well a really

subtle and really sneaky call to faith

110

Luke 10 is Christ's marketing plan,

111

right?

112

Set the two outs 70 out two by two

find a person if they receive your

113

piece there remain and so that's

really what this podcast is about.

114

It's what the new book is going to be

about Why should I refer you is the book?

115

My tagline is the most important word

is the last word you right because at

116

the core of this system is that human

beings are unbelievably precious and

117

unique Right and like you're worthy

of being referred if you're human, but

118

now we got to get other people involved

119

Exactly.

120

Yeah, that's what it is.

121

But anyways, how are you doing?

122

No, I appreciated the Transparency,

I shouldn't be surprised.

123

You're very transparent.

124

But I appreciated the

transparency and the fit.

125

It's interesting.

126

Actually I'll share with you.

127

It was really good.

128

So

129

this was last night when

our Call with my kids.

130

Three of my four were on the call.

131

And anyways but this is a Seth Holbrook.

132

And so my son played

football with this kid.

133

He's two years.

134

One of my sons played football with him.

135

It says my heart is full.

136

367 days ago.

137

I tore my ACL tonight.

138

I tore it again.

139

So do not mistake the red eyes

and tear streak faces for sadness.

140

Over the last year, there's been

plenty of pain and disappointment.

141

At times felt like wave after

wave, physical, emotional hurt.

142

I'm skipping over the little things.

143

It's not for the hurt.

144

The joy of sharing the field with my

friends and teammates might be diminished.

145

Not for the struggle.

146

I might not see and love my family

as they do now for the pain.

147

I might not know that this

must be his girlfriend.

148

I can see Christ working

through the storm.

149

I know that nothing happens outside

of his control and that he would

150

use all things for my ultimate good.

151

So thankful for that.

152

He's chosen to work in broken

places and through broken people.

153

Even now I see Christ

clearer than yesterday.

154

I rejoiced knowing that he will

continue to use my broken body to

155

mold me into the image of Jesus.

156

My heart has never been fuller.

157

God has never been more gracious and

more merciful to me than he is right now.

158

So I'll continue to go the journey

of joy and rest of hope in him.

159

I'm looking for me 10, 000 years from now.

160

We standing the presence of my

savior, praising him for the

161

way he used this period of time

in my life for glory and good,

162

not a bad call.

163

And so what was, what, why I

bring this up is it's been good.

164

I'm a by my build how I was made as

I am a, I'm a doer, achiever first

165

over people that's how I operate.

166

But I

167

recognize the importance of I love

my wife, love my kids, love, but

168

I'll recognize if there's a doubt

of often I'll take a path to do

169

rather than to be right, and and so

I've been reflecting on this a lot.

170

I do a pretty good job of daily Bible

reading pretty good job of praying

171

daily, but Sometimes you, we miss, I

miss is all he's asking is to be like

172

him, to be in him, to be with him.

173

It's to be in his presence

because we can't do anything

174

that will overcome the grace.

175

It's just the grace that has been given.

176

And so I'm just sharing this

with my own self reflection.

177

It's for whatever reason, it's been

hitting me more because when I had

178

my, The hernias surgeries, the part

of this that I wanted to get back

179

to, the hernia that I mentioned while

everyone was saying where there were 9.

180

8, 9.

181

7, everyone was like saying out of 10,

I was like, of course, in my head, I'm

182

like, you guys are a bunch of liars

outside of outside, but maybe they

183

were, and, maybe they were wonderful.

184

But what bothered me.

185

Out of 20.

186

Exactly.

187

But what bothered me last night

was when this was happening, I was

188

not like this kid Seth Holbrook.

189

Oh, yeah.

190

Yeah.

191

And so here this 20 year old kid

last night just put this phrase, I'm

192

embarrassed now looking back at what I

just went through the last three months

193

because here I had an opportunity to

194

be more.

195

And I did not.

196

I complained more.

197

I struggled more.

198

I, I did not do the

things that I could have.

199

And anyways, it's just a little

self reflection on my own journey.

200

And here, by the way, I was not,

I did not grow up a believer, but

201

at college I became a believer.

202

And And yeah it's this journey is the

good news about reading the Bible is

203

this everyone, every single one, except

for Jesus, of course, because he's God.

204

Oh, yeah, I, I take great comfort from

the fact that everyone else complained.

205

I resigned.

206

I'm not Elijah.

207

I'm not taking the fast train.

208

I'm not going to be

gathered home like that.

209

So I'm like, okay I'm here, right?

210

And so I would just encourage you

as and it's not, I don't come at

211

this from cynicism, but I, like

when I hear stuff like that, I

212

I just think it's beautiful, right?

213

I don't know his heart.

214

I don't know him.

215

I don't know what's really going on.

216

And I've seen too many men.

217

Let alone women that work that god works

through and they say beautiful wonderful

218

things that make a difference in my life

Only to discover that they were just as

219

struggling as much as I was in a different

way And so i'm not diminishing him at all.

220

In fact, I think i'm actually

221

Appreciating what it really is.

222

It's just this beautiful wonderful

Act of worship to share that right?

223

And I You I wish him

nothing but more of that.

224

It's like people ask me, they always

try to understand what it's like

225

being the dad that I am with the

son with the massive challenges.

226

And I always tell him, I'm like,

you don't really want to know.

227

I said, you just don't want to know

because it's not helpful for you.

228

And it's also not necessarily helpful

for me to describe how tough it is.

229

I said, what you do need to

know is how it changed me.

230

It did remove sin from my life.

231

It did not make me a better person,

but it gave me an opportunity.

232

To grow and be used in spite of myself,

233

and people will come to me

like, man, I'm so inspired by

234

how you share about your son.

235

I'm like, really?

236

Okay, initially, I'm like, why I'm

just talking about how awful it is.

237

Oh, it's so inspirational.

238

No.

239

And and then I used to get offended,

Carl, because they'd be like what

240

inspired me is you didn't leave.

241

I'm like, was that an option?

242

So I like why am I getting adulation

for doing the absolute minimum standard?

243

Don't abandon your family.

244

Woo.

245

That's admirable.

246

But I've gotten past that.

247

Now it's okay.

248

Fundamentally, one of the reasons God has

taken me, I believe this and I know it.

249

The reason he's taking me is I've had

a couple of clients say to me, Mike,

250

one of the most important things about

working with you as a coach, right?

251

The least profitable

thing I do, by the way.

252

But one of the most important things

is I know that there's nothing I can

253

bring to you that you can't handle.

254

And I went don't, it's not a challenge.

255

Like it's not a contest.

256

What else do you have for me?

257

God, it's you're doing

well, you're blessed.

258

This is good.

259

So anyways, this is really

what the podcast is about.

260

Like, when you get down to it,

Carl, did I send you the questions?

261

Yeah.

262

Yeah.

263

Okay.

264

Maybe you did, but I just

listened to the recording part.

265

Yeah, it's good.

266

I've done a couple of

these, so we'll be okay.

267

Good.

268

Yeah.

269

The basic concept is.

270

is exploring the intersection

between being thoughtful enough and

271

professional enough to anticipate

needing to answer this question.

272

Why should I refer you?

273

And also understanding the intrinsic

opportunity that is offered to you

274

doing business this way, right?

275

Yes.

276

Yeah.

277

And what scares some of my

clients is they're like, this

278

is a freaking love story.

279

I'm like, yep.

280

Yeah,

281

This is just what It's right.

282

It, it really is because one of

my favorite books is Raving Fans.

283

And when you look at raving fans is a

story about outrageous love of clients.

284

That's right, I remember I list the

first time I read it, but the first

285

time I listened to the tapes 'cause

there are no, I think they have CDs

286

now, but it's still not an audible.

287

I'm so angry about that.

288

It's still it's not on audible.

289

I like Blanchard.

290

Come on, man.

291

Anyways, but I wept.

292

I wept when I heard it because

I started thinking about this

293

is what made being I special.

294

All right, so I am about to do

the brief kind of intro, which is

295

basically letting my audience know.

296

Marketing guy know that he puts in

he's got like the voice for radio.

297

It's unbelievable Yeah, so then

i'm going to transition into

298

asking to introduce yourself and

then we're going to just jump in.

299

All right, cool All right, John,

this is the part where you do an

300

introduction that makes me sound

super professional and awesome.

301

I look forward to it.

302

Welcome, Carl, to the Why

Should I Refer You podcast.

303

I almost said, Can I borrow your car?

304

That works too.

305

But I think Why Should I Refer You

is actually more important because

306

that's the question that often is asked

unconsciously by people in our lives.

307

And answered unconsciously by us and

people are worth too much more than

308

that to take it for granted So carl, I

met you recently you once again proved

309

to me why I am Naturally inclined to

p and e and m and a people you guys

310

just make sense to me So why don't you

introduce yourself to the audience?

311

Yeah.

312

Mike.

313

Hey, first of all, I'm so

ecstatic to be on this.

314

It's been fun.

315

Our multiple conversations that we've

had since being in Charleston together.

316

What a great town that is.

317

I love Charleston and yeah.

318

So what I, my name, what's again,

project Cox CEO 40 strategy

319

also the CEO 40 accounting.

320

And so what do I do?

321

I help small to midsize business owners

help take their company to the next level.

322

And I do that in two ways.

323

I do it.

324

Pre.

325

Equity.

326

I help work with clients and helping them

to understand that they're this is the

327

sad part, 57 percent of business owners.

328

Their business value is discounted

and 90 percent of their ownership

329

is tied up in their business.

330

Yeah.

331

That's a bad combo.

332

It's a bad combo.

333

And what's, what we do is we help

unlock that risk combined with

334

improving the EBITDA to increase the

valuation before the private equity

335

firm firms take advantage of you.

336

Okay.

337

And so then, so that's

one half of my life.

338

And then the other half of my life is

I work with those private equity firms.

339

Okay.

340

So then Yeah.

341

Yeah.

342

I do.

343

I play on both sides and I really

enjoy it because their perspective is

344

so much different than the business

owner's perspective because it's a

345

different game and what the biggest

challenge is understanding the new game.

346

It's a financing game versus a loving

relationship of the, of your business

347

and your baby that you birthed, right?

348

And so the finance game is a

different game and it's very

349

uncomfortable for most business owners.

350

And so I help

351

private equity firms turn those companies

around to help them get through to create

352

the financing equity they were expecting

when they first got into the opportunity.

353

So I work both sides.

354

And so as a result, I can.

355

Hear, understand, empathize, have

sympathy, whatever you want to call it.

356

And I've been fortunate enough, I've

been in seven different companies myself

357

that have gone from 2X to 7X in size.

358

I've done it several times.

359

It's fun.

360

I have experiences and, as I started

out as a bean counter, a CPA I've been

361

a CFO, I've been a business owner.

362

You're so not a CPA.

363

Thank you.

364

I appreciate you saying that.

365

And I don't even, it's funny.

366

I didn't even have a listen on

LinkedIn that I'm a CPA because

367

I, just because of that thing.

368

I don't want people to

think, but we do it.

369

We do bookkeeping taxes, et cetera.

370

But but yeah that's who I am.

371

The more important side of

who I am is my home side.

372

Married my high school sweetheart.

373

And we have four wonderful children

that are all become adults.

374

We just became the empty

nesters this past summer, which

375

has been released the arrows.

376

It's hard but been good.

377

And now we get a chance to see, we've

been very fortunate that three of the

378

four of them have played college sports.

379

And so we get to observe and be

in contact and travel with them.

380

But but at the end of the day

my That so that's the two halves

381

and it's being with family.

382

And then, and of course, there's the

other important stuff of your own

383

faith and, and getting that figured

out and trying to help people out.

384

Because at the end of the day,

I'm going to just jump to the

385

important story, Mike, just because

386

I love the gaming business and.

387

Matter of fact, one of my favorite

experiences when I was working with

388

a PE firm, we were trying to hire a

new operator, which is code word for

389

those who aren't familiar, that's, CEO.

390

Okay, they call them operators

in the PE world, right?

391

Okay, like they're, like,

like a operator in SEAL teams.

392

So not that, okay, but they're

the operators in terms of

393

working in the business.

394

Sometimes they do kill people.

395

Figuratively.

396

Yeah.

397

Yeah.

398

Yeah.

399

It's like it, it transformation for sure.

400

And yeah, they do slash and

kill a lot, so to speak.

401

But I was working on this P operating,

he said, Carl, I, and he was bragging.

402

It was a little obnoxious.

403

Honestly, he was like, ah, I got this.

404

And this is, I got this homes

and I got the jet airplane.

405

But he said, Carl, if I spend

one more minute by a luxury pool,

406

I'm going to drown myself in it.

407

Okay.

408

Okay.

409

So that's issue one.

410

So my point is this for those who are

trying to get the Rolex watch and the

411

money that you never have to work again.

412

Don't fool yourself that

you've got it figured out.

413

Because I've talked to people who never

have to make money again and their

414

children's never have to work again.

415

And they're like, I need to get back in

the game because I need to have purpose.

416

So that's number one.

417

That's like the deep personal side of

things that people don't figure out.

418

You got to fulfill your purpose after

you've sold your company, right?

419

You got to figure out who

you are your purpose, right?

420

Yes.

421

Period.

422

Okay.

423

So then there's the end

game, the big end game.

424

And the story here is I remember I

was a 34 year old CFO in a company

425

that was growing three and a half

X and maybe it's 35 at this time.

426

And the CEO sorry, the VP of sales

passed away due to melanoma cancer.

427

And we got to be along his struggle and

he did everything he could to survive,

428

but it was a relatively quick event.

429

And So I went to his funeral and here

I expected to see everyone talk about

430

all the accomplishments and all those

different companies that he'd been with.

431

And that's, I was eager, excited

as a business person to hear of

432

the accolades of all the different

companies and buildings build

433

up over the period of time.

434

But what did they talk about?

435

All as I talked about, it was interesting.

436

There was literally people, employees.

437

From every single one of the companies

it was with throughout his career, but

438

not one person talked about the impact on

the company or the money that they made

439

all as they talked about was the impact

that Larry Stark had made in their life.

440

So why you bring all this up is I

love the tricks and the games that we

441

play to create value in organizations.

442

But the end of the day, the only thing

that matters is the relationships.

443

That we have with people, which

goes right in line with what

444

you do in the referral business.

445

Yeah, man, it's a beautiful story.

446

And it's, and it is the story

because you've heard me say it,

447

but referrals aren't for everyone.

448

They can be, but they're not for everyone.

449

And it's fundamentally, I

think, so surprise referrals.

450

I hope happen for everyone I hope

that when you do a good job and you

451

stick around that you're blessed

that these Spontaneous if I call them

452

spontaneous eruptions of marketing

by referral happen and you get a

453

nice sally field Oh, you like me?

454

You really like me, right?

455

You've won the oscar, right?

456

The challenge is at the next level,

which is really what the book's about.

457

And it's really what this podcast

is about is, are you prepared?

458

I always think of that felt the film about

Al Capone with Sean Connery and and Kevin

459

Costner about what are you prepared to do?

460

What are you prepared to do?

461

Not good fellas, but I can't remember.

462

Anyways the concept being is

To be strategic about referrals

463

is very much like deciding to

really be a business owner.

464

Because you're taking on a different

mantle of responsibility because

465

there's other people involved.

466

When you live in the spontaneous,

where people find an opportunity, it's

467

a unicorn, it happens, there's a lot

less risk involved in that transaction.

468

Generally, the prospect wants to

talk to you, the prospect is in the

469

market for what you do, and you have

to be a real rascal to mess it up.

470

On the other side, the proactive,

predictable side, you're

471

interacting with other people

in other people's relationships,

472

and you are being a caretaker.

473

For good or for bad.

474

And that's really what I want to start.

475

So you've done a lot of different

things and you've been involved in

476

a lot of different conversations.

477

And I know referrals

have been a part of it.

478

What's one of that was obviously

one of the good ones with Mr.

479

Stark.

480

That was a good thing.

481

Oh yeah.

482

That's a person that was a giver.

483

And he's someone that I bet got a lot of

introductions, not because of his sales

484

acumen, but it was because of who he was.

485

And at the core.

486

This is what I want the audience to get.

487

At the core of this entire process,

Is your referral partners if you

488

really want to do this are going to

be asking that question Why should

489

I refer you and if they have to

answer that inside of themselves?

490

Some of them will because we're

hardwired for this community thing.

491

So like You only do things wrong

if you're bad, but you're missing

492

a whole bunch of it because when

you Answer the question for them.

493

They are then able to share

that story Which, by the way,

494

Story is the universal language.

495

It's the universal

learning language, right?

496

You can say Auditory, Visual,

Kinesthetic, whatever.

497

Story is it, right?

498

But what is it, what is a really good

referral experience that you've had?

499

And why do you remember it?

500

Oh, 40 Strategies.

501

There's more than one.

502

I know there's more than one.

503

No yeah.

504

No, I'll just start with the beginnings.

505

40 Strategy was built on referral.

506

So I would not be sitting here

talking to you today if I did

507

not get referral business.

508

And so it, it started literally from

the beginning of left a previous

509

company and literally people were

like, I want to still work with you.

510

Ha!

511

So I had two people from the previous

company said, then the third one

512

said, I've been lurking and watching

you for the past three months and

513

I want to start working with you.

514

I was like, fantastic.

515

Let's get going.

516

Talk about because this is a scary thing.

517

My wife, I didn't share with you,

Mike, is when I opened Forty Strategy

518

and this is not a really happy

conversation between the missus and I.

519

It was one of the worst fights we ever

had when I opened up this business.

520

Because I left a very lucrative.

521

Secure job.

522

It was hard job, but it was

a lucrative, secure job.

523

And she's what, why

would you leave that for?

524

So when our wives meet and this will

happen, we need to remember this

525

conversation and not let it occur then.

526

Thank you.

527

Thank you.

528

Yes.

529

And again, good news is my

wife's tired of listening.

530

So she doesn't listen to my podcast.

531

So I usually can get away

with this conversation.

532

But literally she was like

Missouri show me state gal.

533

She was like, show me the

money at the end of the day,

534

because like how you prove this.

535

And so within what the coolest thing

is within two, three months, this is

536

not your typical story, but within

two, three months, third month,

537

I had highest checks I ever took

home in my career because I knew.

538

I was making a difference.

539

I knew I had developed the skills

over my career, but she was not

540

convinced of that yet, right?

541

Because she had seen other people

in her family and other people

542

doing things and she's Oh, I don't

want to be a part of that again.

543

So yeah.

544

So I built up, but how did

that business come from?

545

One was doing previous

good work in the past.

546

The second way it happened was one

of the best relationships I had

547

came through a get this served on

a board volunteer for nine years.

548

Okay.

549

Didn't get a penny out of it.

550

Okay.

551

Literally just give.

552

After I opened up Portis Strategy, they

introduced me to a private equity firm.

553

That private equity firm was willing to

take a risk in me because nobody wanted to

554

go Eugene, Oregon in the middle of COVID.

555

Went down to Eugene, Oregon, went

down to a client, you could take a

556

look at him, precision, precision

manufacturing, Don Lindsey.

557

Hey Don, if you happen to be listening

to this, thank you for what you

558

did to help change that company.

559

But, we, through that experience,

we had a Great results.

560

And so they, they kept on giving me

other opportunities to refer and then

561

through that it got me to another

private equity firm and then it got

562

me to another private equity firm.

563

And then there's the other side behind

it and but this is the thing that Mike,

564

I will warn on because I don't make

it sound like everything has been.

565

Rosie and perfect through this journey.

566

There is an enemy and he gets a vote.

567

Yeah.

568

The challenge is when it almost was

too easy for me upfront, I'm saying

569

this in a, it was almost too easy.

570

And so because of that, I

didn't create a process.

571

Oh no.

572

Okay.

573

And interestingly enough, as I reflected,

because I can, folks, if you go back

574

and you categorize all your sales in

the past, if you, especially if you're

575

a relationship based type business

thing, okay, you're going to find

576

that if you track it, there's going

to be like five to 10 people that

577

have brought you all of your business.

578

Yes.

579

Period.

580

And the problem is when you stop

nursing those relationships,

581

you lose.

582

You get to be, they think you're too

busy and they stop referring your

583

business that what's happened to me,

I was quote, unquote, conquering the

584

world and traveling around the U.

585

S.

586

and, turning around all these companies

that, but I was not nurturing these

587

relationships because I hadn't created

a process because it came too easy.

588

Yep.

589

That is one of the biggest fears.

590

Yeah so that's honestly one of the things

I'm doing now again is recommitting

591

to these relationships and not just

do but be with these really wonderful

592

people that I want to help give to them.

593

Cause I have things to help give

to them, but then there's maybe

594

ways I can help them out as well.

595

And so it's been a really,

that's why I love to actually

596

listen to your presentation when

we're in Charleston together.

597

And it, I've really done some

good self reflection even just

598

recently of, and what the literally

it's almost like timing of it.

599

Like the amount of

600

referrals I've just gotten in the past,

like it's almost I take all the credit.

601

Yeah.

602

Thanks, Mike.

603

Now I'll say this though, sometimes

too, sometimes it's a season of, okay,

604

so I'm going to throw something out

sometimes in, as a, as an entrepreneur

605

or a business owner or whatever you do,

606

not everybody needs what you're selling.

607

So true.

608

Okay.

609

And so it's showing up.

610

One of the reasons I, even though I was

doing it, we were doing concurrently,

611

I opened up 40 accounting separately.

612

was because people were always

asking me, I can't find a CPA

613

and never answers the phone.

614

Can you do my bookkeeping?

615

Can you do my financial reporting?

616

Can you help me, my

kind of interim CFO guy?

617

And I was like, yeah, of course, and so

I was just doing that work just alongside

618

I wasn't mentioning I was doing it.

619

Now that I've Turn the thing and

say, I'm doing it and yes, I'm

620

still an active CPA or I should say

actually I may I am an active CPA.

621

That's a starving crowd, right?

622

So I'm going to go to the

story that I didn't say there.

623

The story is if you're trying

to attract new business.

624

Where should you go?

625

If you're, I'm going to open up my

new business shop and I'm going to

626

open it and say, where should you open

up your location or your business?

627

And some people say you should

open on the busiest street corner.

628

That's what some people say.

629

If you have a restaurant, right?

630

Busiest street corner,

have a restaurant there.

631

Somebody else will say, Oh

no, put it behind McDonald's.

632

Cause the McDonald's is they do all

their research, take advantage of that.

633

And we won't go into the politics

behind that right now, but that's

634

funny if you think about it.

635

But then on the third side behind it.

636

Is The really best place to open your

restaurant is in front of a starving crab.

637

That can afford your stuff.

638

That's right.

639

That's right.

640

And so understanding Who and what and

where and what you're providing and who's

641

ready to listen because what I've really

interesting found is when I talk to

642

somebody about one thing now, I can also

now share a cross sell of my other stuff.

643

It's so huge and so

man, there's just a lot.

644

That's great.

645

A couple of things just

technically on the referral side.

646

Yes, please.

647

Just to rephrase it for the

audience, because I want to make

648

sure they got what you shared,

649

strategy is not apart from referrals.

650

Strategy is even more essential.

651

And this is what people miss, is

they get excited by the emotional

652

part of the referral process, right?

653

Oh, they believe in me, which

by the way is, man It's awesome.

654

Of course you're excited about it.

655

And of course, but you need to be

able to unpack how did this happen?

656

And you need to be able

to start isolating.

657

And if you're in the audience

and you're listening, go back.

658

This is why I always talk to my

clients, tell me about great referrals

659

and tell me about bad referrals and

let's try and gather retroactively.

660

So it's anecdotal, but anecdotes have

power to clearly let's gather the data.

661

Because so I'll just give you an example.

662

I was working with a pretty nice team

of wealth advisors in Cincinnati,

663

and whenever I start working

with a team, I'm looking for one

664

thing that has massive traction.

665

I'm looking for one thing that we

can discover that they already have.

666

So it's a person of peace.

667

I'm looking for a lieutenant,

looking for a rabbi, right?

668

I'm looking for someone that these multi

millionaires Have already got and is

669

underutilized like we talk about arbitrage

and leverage because it's what we do.

670

It's who we are, right?

671

Where is it right?

672

If you don't pee yourself,

somebody else will pee on you.

673

So that's very hard.

674

Man.

675

That dude's a good speaker.

676

He's a good speaker.

677

But that's the thing.

678

Referrals is you have to look at

it like a private equity person.

679

What opportunity is there?

680

For example, we discovered that they

had this really incredible relationship

681

with a young woman who's an AI savant.

682

She's young, attractive, dynamic speaker,

and is uniquely gifted at speaking to

683

business owners about something terrifying

and making it applicable and equitable.

684

And I had the biggest smile on my

face and I said, Hey, we're done.

685

I just, my consulting

fee is just paid for.

686

It's non-refundable at this point.

687

And they laughed like why I go gentlemen

your body language your energy when you

688

started talking about her and how much

you respect her and how You can't wait

689

to introduce her to clients She is the

rabbi that you are going to introduce

690

to other business owners that will

make prospecting less dangerous for

691

you psychologically and more exciting

and affirming because you're not just

692

doing it to make money directly for you.

693

You're not coming, you're giving to them

and you should have seen their faces.

694

You, I'm sure you've seen those faces with

clients of yours when you're in there.

695

after a transaction helping to get

things rolling again to hit that number.

696

It's the same kind of concept,

but people don't understand that

697

is completely dependent upon

understanding sales and strategy, right?

698

Because otherwise you don't know

how to answer the questions.

699

And when you don't know how to

answer the questions, you're taking

700

something that is amazing and you're

throttling it like a golf cart.

701

You're taking a Maserati, a Lamborghini

and you're putting a governor on it

702

and it won't go past 15 miles an hour.

703

What do you think about that?

704

I like the example you had of the

speaker side behind that, I've

705

just, once again is when you can

706

create once again of

707

excitement, right?

708

An opportunity you can combine the 2

and then which compels people to act.

709

But there's something else

you said, which you really.

710

Just said under the surface.

711

That is the I would say is the hardest

thing and it's a big part of what you do.

712

Mike.

713

It's a big part of what I

do and different things.

714

Not directly in the referral

side, but it's your own.

715

It's our own DNA of rejection.

716

I got my book, lost a CEO and right here.

717

I've got.

718

Please remove me from my mailing list.

719

Oh, nice.

720

Okay.

721

Okay.

722

Now, it's really funny.

723

Somehow this human being has, I don't

know how, but three times has, I don't

724

honestly know how it even happened.

725

He must be trying to

get on to get rejected.

726

Like it's the weirdest thing, but

regardless of that, so he could reject me.

727

But but all that being said is

that is the hardest thing is that

728

in the cold ish leads, in the

cold ish referrals, right?

729

What I mean by is there is in

deeper relationships, right?

730

Some of you don't know, they don't

know that the trust is a big gap.

731

That's why referrals are so helpful,

so you can help bridge that gap faster.

732

And just the sensitivity of the concepts

you bring up in Can I Borrow Your Car?

733

Which is that the psychological safety

of concerning a brewing an existing

734

relationship And then the other part

of just your own ego of failure, right?

735

And it's hard.

736

This is, this, these are the things, the

hardest things is that even when you have

737

a process, but I, it was not too long ago,

I ran across some successful coach thing.

738

I think it was on Instagram

or something like that.

739

And I loved it.

740

He said, if I didn't worry about,

if I would have worried about losing

741

94 percent of the time, I would

never have an eight figure business.

742

I Totally.

743

I'm saying totally it that has

direct relevance to referrals.

744

Absolutely.

745

And here's a couple of things I was

so I was talking to, I had a great

746

referral today, great referral,

a guy down in Florida, really

747

successful advisor over a million.

748

Take home super successful.

749

He was referred to me.

750

And so we just had a fun time

talking about stuff and we

751

got into real important stuff.

752

And then we expanded back

out to the regular world.

753

And he goes I'm really interested

in the referral stuff that you do.

754

He goes we get a lot of referrals,

but we don't know when they're coming.

755

And he goes but we're afraid.

756

And he said, we're afraid

you don't know what to do.

757

And I said I said.

758

Like, how about if I just fix that for

you right now on this free phone call?

759

And he's and I go, no, I was serious.

760

Give me five minutes.

761

We'll fix it.

762

And I took him through macro

micro strategies and he's damn,

763

I go, now here's the trick.

764

So now you, you intellectually

have got the construct.

765

I said, now here's the two

rules that you have to apply

766

to have any chance of success.

767

Number one, you're excited about

this concept having a system,

768

but it's not a system yet.

769

I said, so you have to buy the book.

770

It's 20 bucks, buy the book,

and you'll get the system.

771

I said, but you have to understand

there's two rules that make this

772

work, and you cannot escape them.

773

The first rule is you have to

develop the system That you believe

774

that if you do it, it will work

according to what your dreams are.

775

I said, my friend, he's a

multimillionaire, 20, 30 million, right?

776

I said, my friend, it's

no longer about money.

777

Money's how we keep score, but that

doesn't intrinsically motivate you.

778

Am I wrong?

779

He goes, no, not at all.

780

He goes, I said, That's important.

781

I said, but here's the other one.

782

That system has to be something

that you are excited about doing.

783

And my hack that I didn't find

until two years ago, when I wrote

784

that book hack is we're just going

to have an explicit giving system

785

because those dudes in Cincinnati

were excited about introducing her.

786

And all of a sudden the call

reluctance, which is real, and they

787

may or may not work with me going

forward because that's what I do.

788

You and I get paid, not conceptually.

789

We get paid on helping clients

execute on these strategies, right?

790

But that's the deal.

791

If you're listening to the audience,

understand that what Carl and I are

792

basically talking about is you have

to connect your heart to the business.

793

There has to be a purpose that drives it.

794

And when it comes to business

development, we It's very rare

795

that somebody is intrinsically or

extrinsically motivated to grow, sell.

796

Once you make your first million, once

you get to a position of success, your

797

risk tolerance completely changes and

you're not able to force yourself to do

798

things you did when you were starving.

799

You have to find a different way

to do it and the way to do it

800

is to find a way to get excited.

801

And when I work with millionaires, the

people that are relationship oriented, I

802

always trick them into doing prospecting

by having them do it for other people

803

That's brilliant.

804

Yeah.

805

And they're like, this is amazing.

806

I'm having so much fun.

807

I'm like, you are hard cold

sales prospecting, bro.

808

They're like, no, I'm helping people.

809

I'm like, okay, fine.

810

Whatever.

811

Just keep.

812

And they're three X ing

their conversations.

813

So real quick, I just got a couple

of questions I want to run by you

814

just because of what you've done.

815

I know that people are

asking you for referrals.

816

Oh, yeah, no question.

817

And I know half of them aren't even

directly asking they're trying to create

818

Some kind of convoluted conversation where

you spontaneously decide that you're going

819

to do their job and help them, right?

820

So let's not talk about that

By the way, if you're listening

821

do your job like if you want a

referral from me Know who it is.

822

You want me to introduce you to i'll tell

you if I know them instantly And then i'll

823

tell you if I want to introduce you or not

and we'll both save a lot of time You What

824

are some of the things that people have

done that are coming into relationship

825

with you that from your perspective,

which is cool I think it's really

826

bitching people but from your perspective,

what are some of the things that you

827

have found make you want to refer more

828

or be willing to refer first?

829

Yeah I, it comes down to this is, when

I see one of the really cool things I

830

get is because I'm usually involved.

831

Whatever you want to call it, the

strategic planning level, and with

832

that people confuse that, but I'm

really referring to the plan of the

833

company and all the major things

they're doing to move the dial.

834

I'm not talking about your day

to day stuff, but I'm talking

835

about what big things you're

doing to help grow your company.

836

And that piece that piece

beside it, I run into, I start

837

as an auditor, I see problems.

838

I see problems.

839

That's, it's literally my,

it's one of my horrible gifts.

840

I see a lot of crap and

it doesn't bother me.

841

It's just, I see it.

842

And the reality is I can't

solve all those problems.

843

I find it my duty when I see a problem

I can't solve, this is why I have

844

partners and referral partners I

connect with, is I need to connect

845

them with that trusted referral partner

because I have a duty to make sure

846

that my client is being taken care of.

847

And when you live in the, this is a

big world with lots of opportunity as

848

opposed to a scarcity it's only mine.

849

Then you can be more generous.

850

And then what you find is it is a big

world and the generosity can return

851

and come back if it does or doesn't,

but it will in some way, shape or form.

852

Perhaps that referral won't be,

the person you're helping with,

853

but that person 2 or 3 down.

854

I got a call today from somebody

I had no connection with.

855

found out they had a copy of

my book they were reading.

856

I was like, I had no idea, right?

857

And they were like referred to, and

I said if you're part of 40X, could

858

you talk to Jim Hewling and dah.

859

You don't always know where

the seeds are planted.

860

But what is important is that

you respect the process with

861

everybody that you're connecting

and meeting with as best you can.

862

Yes.

863

And recognize that we all have our gifts.

864

We served people in different ways.

865

So I guess that's the core of it.

866

Mike is answering.

867

I believe we have a duty to help our

clients and to not hold them back.

868

And when we can't do it

ourselves, even if it's in our

869

core business, that's not right.

870

If you know somebody else could

do better, it's your duty to make

871

sure that they're getting the best.

872

Absolutely.

873

And that's the core.

874

That's when I think is the difference.

875

But once again, it's when referrals work

better is when you're not afraid to give

876

and the good news is right when you give

it's just the just like why we like to

877

give a portion of our revenues to client,

out to charity is because we do it because

878

we believe it's the right thing to do.

879

But it's amazing.

880

The reciprocation comes back and

you end up getting business from

881

people you never dreamed of.

882

So that Dude, it's so cool.

883

Like it is so cool.

884

I agree with everything you said.

885

What's really cool is I just shared on

LinkedIn reposted a clip from a podcast.

886

I was on with my friends,

Larry Levine and Dale, Amy, the

887

sign from the heart podcast.

888

Those are servants, those guys.

889

Actually I've known Larry for almost

nine years and we've never met.

890

And yet every time we talk to each other,

we tell each other, we love each other.

891

It's so you can do it digitally.

892

But he's special.

893

One of the clips is what

people don't understand.

894

And this is, I want to run this by you.

895

I think I've talked about it.

896

People are like, what really makes a

strategic, scalable referral system work?

897

And I said the only limitation is your

commitment to personal development.

898

I said, because this referrals like,

and it's not a positive, this is not

899

a pro of referral systems because You

will be exposed if you're trying to

900

do this to scale your organization.

901

You'll be exposed as to who you are

And you so you need to know who you

902

are and you need to be comfortable with

your weaknesses and your strengths but

903

secondly your this game The referral

game is dependent upon your commitment

904

to personal development your commitment

to challenge yourself to be introspective

905

To look out and to grow and without

a doubt The best referral sources

906

that I've ever met are avid readers.

907

They're avid learners.

908

And I'm going to make it

real simple for the audience.

909

If you want to get lots of referrals for

me, lots to really successful people.

910

You have to be interesting to my client.

911

That's a multimillionaire when they're

not in the market for what you do.

912

That's right.

913

And so like earlier on, you were talking

about this transactional concept, like if

914

you're only interesting and valuable when

the client's ready to buy, that doesn't

915

mean I'm not going to refer to you.

916

Correct.

917

That is correct.

918

You're not dead to me.

919

That's right.

920

But the problem is, If you're in a and

this comes back to your the thing you're

921

talking about where there's traction

and high value And the crowd like when

922

I interact with someone like and you're

becoming that person who understands the

923

value of more socially type Introductions

to a target market at the very top of the

924

funnel before the buying process starts.

925

I hate to say it But if you're somebody

like carl that's only communicating

926

to me about you wanting to meet

people when they're ready to buy I

927

might have already had carl in there

928

and that's right.

929

And so that's what I tell people

is, but that personal development,

930

that, that ability, like the fact

you wrote a book makes it easier

931

for me to refer you because now I

can mitigate risk with these people.

932

Why should I refer you?

933

I wrote a book to make it easy for

you to let people figure out if

934

they like what I talk about before

they have to waste time with me.

935

Oh, how much is your book girl 20 bucks.

936

I bought it.

937

I can't remember what I

paid for it Doesn't matter.

938

I just bought it.

939

I heard you talk about the oil.

940

I was like damn Hey, that was super cool.

941

By the way, you wrote an article

About it right after that.

942

That was thank you.

943

That was really special that

you had done that I had to do

944

you have a little bit more time.

945

I've got two minutes before I gotta

pop it in So let's go real quick.

946

We're like, so thanks for being here

Folks you need to connect with carl

947

and if you're a business owner You

need to ask them about the oil well

948

versus selling a business Because

that was the most Useful way that i've

949

ever heard to talk to business owners

about whether they should really be

950

looking to sell or not It was and i've

said that to a lot of business owners.

951

It's amazing carl So brother in

every sense of the word, for coming

952

on the podcast It's been amazing.

953

Where can people find you?

954

Hey, Mike, thank you so much.

955

It's been an honor to be a guest.

956

I look forward to our

continued relationship.

957

So that's number one.

958

Number two just Google me, Carl J.

959

Cox, not Carl Cox.

960

Otherwise you're going

to come up with the DJ.

961

Okay.

962

But Carl J.

963

Cox or 40 strategy.

964

com.

965

Tons of information,

books, podcasts, et cetera.

966

And just reach out and my

L even share my Carl J.

967

Cox at four zero strategy.

968

And the book's lost at CEO.

969

It's freaking.

970

Anyways.

971

Thanks brother.

972

Appreciate you.

973

Thank you.

974

All right.

975

Take care.