Clients sometimes feel they’re a burden to their children—especially when it comes to retirement planning. Patti Brennan discusses how financial professionals can lessen that burden and help open up communication and transparency within the family.
Transcripts
John Diehl: [:
welcome Patti Brennan and we're going to welcome Patti Brennan, and
the topic is really interesting to me. It's helping to how to help
clients age with dignity. I don't know about you, Julie, but how many
conversations do we have when we're with clients, with advisers where
you know, the conversation goes well past the money? It goes well
past the financial part of the client's life. And we talk about
values and we talk about plans and we talk about really
relationships. And navigating those relationships can be tricky. And
so that's why I'm I'm really looking forward to it. Patti has to
share with our listeners. [:
Julie Genjac: [00:01:16] I agree, John, I know in my own life, my
grandmother passed away just about a year ago to the day, and we
unfortunately didn't engage with some of these conversations and I
certainly wish we had and it made for her last few days - some
challenges in the last few days. So excited to hear Patty's best
d shall we go talk to Patty? [:
John Diehl: [00:01:37] Absolutely. [00:01:37][0.0]
John Diehl: [:
Julie Genjac: [00:00:02] and I'm Julie. [00:00:03][1.3]
John Diehl: [:
human centric investing podcast. [00:00:08][3.4]
Julie Genjac: [:
inspiring thought leaders to hear their best ideas for how you
can transform your relationships with your clients.
[:
John Diehl: [00:00:19] Let's go.
John Diehl: [:
Patti Brennan. Patti is a graduate of Georgetown University. She's a
certified financial planner and CEO of Key Financial Inc.. Patti not
only provides comprehensive wealth management, she and her team
create integrated strategies that are unique for each client. Patti
is not just the number crunchers she is the ability to see the impact
of small details in the big picture. And she's known for
communicating complex financial concepts in simple, meaningful terms.
Patti's consistently ranked year after year is one of America's top
financial advisers. As a wife and mother of four children, Patti's
learned to balance the most important job in the world with the needs
of a growing company. Her husband, Ed, also owns a business so their
children have a real understanding of what it means to be an
entrepreneur. Patti is a believer in giving back and currently
resides on the boards of the Brandywine Valley YMCA Cuddle My Kids
Royal, the Royal Alliance Academy and Imani Advisory. Patti has
served the community over the years in a variety of ways, including
the Chester County Hospital's main board and former chairwoman of the
Retirement Planning Committee, the Chester County Hospital
Foundation's Investment Committee, the Chester County Economic
Development Council, Southeastern Pennsylvania Development Council
and the Royal Alliance Advisory Board. As a former chairwoman, her
favorite positions included her work at St. Agnes as a kindergarten
teacher and a field hockey and lacrosse coach. Patti, welcome to the
podcast! [:
Patti Brennan: [00:10:04] Thank you so much, John, and thanks to all
of you who are tuned in today. We're really looking forward to
information for all of you. [:
Julie Genjac: [00:10:14] Well, Patty, I think this is going to be a
very interesting topic, and I know that you've spent a lot of time
cultivating your approach around how to help your clients age with
dignity. But more specifically, opening up communication lines and
the transparency within a family. I know oftentimes, and I'm sure
those listening today can relate to this, that clients sometimes feel
like they're a burden to their adult children. You know what happens
if they get sick? How will their children face that reality? And I
know that you've spent much time with multiple generations of your
clients engaging in these deep and meaningful conversations. But I
think we should kick it off today. Bye bye. The tough part of this?
How do you start these conversations? Obviously, they're very
nuanced. They're very delicate, very emotional. How have you found
the best way to approach this with your clients and their adult
children? And what best practices can you share with us today?
[:
Patti Brennan: [00:11:15] It's it's all of this is it's a really good
question. You know, I often talk about retirement planning and
financial planning in general, as it's not just about money, it's
about the relationships, it's about having them retire with that
feeling of independence, not just financial independence, but that
that dignity that we all feel when we've got things organized and in
control. And for me, I try to kind of set them up and go through the
different kind of fire drills. If it's a husband and wife, know if
something happened to if one of you died and the other person is
sick. Who would you call? Would you call the kids? Would you call a
neighbor? Just kind of get a feel. Begin opening up those family
dynamics with the idea of we just would want to know so that we could
make those phone calls on your behalf as well. I think, you know, if
it's the parent, you know, to your point, parents don't want their
kids to worry, they don't want to be a burden. But I will tell you,
the kids worry anyway. You know, they're not. They're seeing things
they're saying. Mom and dad begin to, you know, get slower, maybe
lose a little bit of their cognitive sharpness, things of that
nature. And so they're going to worry. And so the more that you can
have an open dialog about these issues, the better because you worry
about things that you don't know whether let's I mean, this is me, I
don't want to create a problem that doesn't exist, right? So if mom
and dad are OK, that's great. If they're not, well, what are you
going to do to what? What's Plan B? Who, who? Who would you call?
What would you want? Then what would you? What would you want them to
do? What are you comfortable with? You know, because they may not
want the kids to help them. So those are the beginning beginnings of
the conversations when it comes to the kids themselves. We had a
meeting yesterday, a couple that was they were in their early 60s.
Parents were still alive and there was something that they said in
the meeting. And just intuitively, I just sort of picked up on and I
said, Well, tell me more about your parents, you know, do you worry
about them? And that's when they opened up and said, Well, we we we
don't know. We don't know if we should be worried about them, and we
don't know if they're going to need our help financially or otherwise
in the future. They just had no idea. And so that opened up a
different conversation in terms of, first of all, acknowledging,
Yeah, it's kind of a glitchy topic. You know, some parents don't they
don't want to share their. Many are in from the older generation and
it's none of it's none of your business. And so, you know, to begin
to at least share and say that the reason I don't I'm not trying to
be grabby mom or dad or both. We're not trying. We're just asking,
you know, in the event that you might need some help you, you might
be perfectly fine and you might have, you know, a lot of money. There
are some practical considerations, though. If you were to get sick,
who's got power of attorney? What bills do you have? How much of it
is automated? What are your passwords and and usernames? And where do
you do your bank? Just because we want to help, we want to make this
as easy and seamless as possible so that you know, you don't get
behind on certain things. So it's always that, you know, as long as
we approach this with that framework of helping wanting to make their
lives easier and not being nosy, you just want to you just in the
event that there is a need, you want to know where to go. Does that
make sense? [:
John Diehl: [00:15:14] Patty, how how often do you use stories in
conjunction with trying to get someone to identify some of these
issues? I I always laugh and share with my team that sometimes when
we're talking about the issues related to longevity and aging will
actually lead off the workshop by saying, Look, this may or may not
be you, but it might be a loved one, could be a parent or a sibling
that may need it. Of course, it's not me, right? But I've got a
friend who probably ought to pay attention to this. But as an
advisor, do you often use stories about maybe people who hadn't
thought about some of these practical issues and kind of the buying
nd that found themselves in? [:
Patti Brennan: [00:15:57] Absolutely, and to be perfectly
transparent. Some of them aren't even my stories, right? I'll hear a
story from somebody else, and I'll preface it by saying I had a
colleague who blankety blank blank because that it is the stories
that resonate with people. In fact, we were talking beforehand and
you were talking about the fast but form and what that felt like when
you realized that your daughter was going to see all of the data
regarding income net worth on her Facebook form. And I thought it was
interesting. I thought you articulated it so perfectly in terms of,
you know, for some people, that's perfectly fine. For others. It may
make them feel uncomfortable, cornered, et cetera. So. To even start
out with a story like that and to say the goal here is not to, I
don't want to make you feel that way, we're just really want to help
its stories are everything. [:
John Diehl: [00:17:00] It really helps. Yeah, I had mentioned that,
you know, in having to fill up fast foods for college scholarships
and things like that. We never made money a big point of discussion
in our family. And yet here we were. It was kind of a surprise to me.
You're laying it bare in front of your children because they're the
ones submitting the form. And Patty, I think what I mentioned to you
is a kind of cornered me, right? It's something I hadn't planned to
talk about, right? We never really sat down to talk about it. But
then Julie shared as well that that led to some new conversations
when she is a student experience the same thing of getting to share
with her parents about things that we might never have shared about.
But I wonder if that fast before wasn't there at the time. Would we
have waited until my 70s or 80s to have those conversations?
[:
Patti Brennan: [00:17:50] You know, what's also interesting about
that is that there are some unintended benefits to having the
conversations a little bit earlier. For example, true story, I wish
we were doing some estate planning and I was talking with my son
because we wanted him to be a trustee in the event that something
happened to one of us. And I was showing him the draw of where I keep
statements and things of that nature. And he looked at something that
I had prepared like 30 years ago, and then I showed him something
that I prepared. And he he basically looked we set out to do all this
like, here's a young man with a young family. And he said, How did
you really do this? And it really it was a rich conversation of,
believe me, we didn't have the money either. We started with nothing.
I was living on a home equity line of credit to pay our mortgage.
Like, talk about feeling some shame here. I am a financial planner
and I'm using debt to pay debt. Not a good strategy, by the way. And
so to share that with him and to say we started off with twenty five
dollars a month and then we bumped it down a hundred. And that was
the first thing. I never had a budget. We never did any of that
stuff, but we just automated everything so that I didn't have to
think about it. I couldn't think about it. And here we are today. And
so that that that conversation of. By the way, you're named in this
document led to a very rich conversation in terms of how to build his
own network. [:
Julie Genjac: [00:19:32] That's a great story, Patty, and I think is
so powerful and you're right, sometimes those situations that we
don't necessarily expect to turn into the deeper, richer
conversations really do. I'm curious what what shape or vision or
image do the conversations that you're helping facilitate among
multiple generations of families look like? Are they usually more of
a one on one with either the parent, the parent or the adult child?
Is it bringing the whole family together to have this? What are some
of those look like just for those financial professionals that maybe
haven't engaged in this type of conversation so they can begin to
wrap their minds around some of the different templates that you've
during these conversations? [:
Patti Brennan: [00:20:19] It's it's usually a one on one
conversation, either with the adult child or the parent, it's one or
the other, not typically both. OK. I'm always cognizant of the fact
that that a lot of times people will do more to avoid pain than to
get something good, right? So you kind of got to put the fear of God.
And I'm a little bit and I and I'm sorry to have to say that, but
sometimes that's the only time you can generate action. So to think
about the unintended consequences of this privacy and this desire to
maintain and keep it all close to the vest, both for the parent as
well as the child, for the parent. If I'm talking to mom and dad, I'm
saying, you know, I understand that this is something that is
important to you, that it's private. And I, I respect that
completely. And I'm also wondering if there's a way that you could
set it up so that if something, if you needed something, that you
could make it really seamless for whoever it might be that could be
stepping in to help you in that time of need. Unfortunately, there is
going to be that time, there's going to be this time if I'm sitting
with a couple, when we're I'm sitting at this conference table with
one of you. That's when this stuff really matters. And the more that
we can involve your, your family, your children to do the things that
you may not be able to do anymore, the better, make it easier because
I've seen a lot of situations where they didn't want to involve
anybody and then they got hit with one of these lottery schemes and
two hundred thousand dollars later, they're wiring money out to
somebody because of a fraud or Amazon. That's the latest one. You
know, the security department from Amazon calls mom and dad, and
somehow they get access to the bank account and and hundreds and
thousands of dollars get sucked right out of the account. Like, these
are the stories. They are true stories. They can happen to anybody.
And as we know, you know, a cognitive decline doesn't happen, like
people don't fall off a cliff and then not recognize their family.
They have good days and they have bad days, and that's when they
become that much more vulnerable. If it's mom and dad, just say, I
don't want you to lose everything because of some crock. So let's
figure out some, some some strategies to make sure that doesn't
happen to you. [:
John Diehl: [00:23:00] Patty, I want to throw you a bit of a
curveball if I can kind of change the narrative a little bit, let it
because I think what we're what we generally imagine is a
relationship where it would be better off if we got mom and daughter
or mom and son dad to get the family together to help one another.
But one of the more painful conversations I remember is an adviser
who said, I have this client and she's widowed. She's a but she has
children and her one son is going to bleed her dry. Right? Just keeps
asking for more money and more money and more money. And as a mother,
she's finding it really difficult to say no as a financial
professional. Do you have a role in that in that conversation? What
would you do if the woman knew that it wasn't going to be good for
her, but just had a lot of trouble saying no to her son? And the
adviser looked at the son and realized that he was kind of being
abusive in terms of the requests that he was making. Are there any
ou put in place for clients? [:
Patti Brennan: [00:24:05] I would just give it to them real. I mean,
it literally. This is our job to protect our clients from that kind
of elder abuse. And it is a form of abuse and call it what it is now.
It's uncomfortable for the parent. I would basically say to the mom,
Make me the bad bad guy. Blame it on me, OK, and say, you cannot do
that anymore. And if it's too difficult for you to do that, let's
take the money out of the bank account. We'll put it in the brokerage
account. Then they can't, then they can't come to. You can basically
look them in the eyes and say, I'm sorry, son, I have two thousand
dollars because that's all you'll have. And frankly, that's all
you'll have left if this keeps up. So what can I do to make it easier
for you to say no? And then if I have the opportunity to talk with
the son, I would say, Hey, listen, I'm Amanda, and I have a fiduciary
obligation to your mom as well as the regulatory authorities, and
they don't like this stuff. So it's really important that you're
going to find another source of capital because, you know, we're
tax. And they may not like, [:
John Diehl: [00:25:20] thanks for that, Heidi. I think what you said
is right, I think being straightforward as you can, regardless of who
likes it, we have an obligation to represent our clients. And so no
I think it's a valuable one. [:
Patti Brennan: [00:25:42] it's really where the relationship comes in
and and everybody listening to this show today, you're listening
because you, you care about your clients and you want to learn more.
And when when you come from a place like that, I already know you're
a great adviser. Your clients are going to appreciate that. They're
going to appreciate the fact that you've got their backs, no matter
who who might be involved. [:
Julie Genjac: [00:26:11] It sounds petty like the the foundation of
this is just being willing to have that. What I like to call a
courageous conversation sometimes with clients and be open and honest
and give that feedback. And I'm I'm sure that that just built such
trust and relationships over multiple generations of families. I'm
curious before we wrap up, have you found that engaging in these
conversations, either with the adult children that are your clients
or vice versa? Have you have have one generation or the other
consolidated assets with you as well after you've taken the time to
help go through these really special conversations with the family?
[:
Patti Brennan: [00:26:54] Yes, I would say it's one of again, the
unintended benefit. Nothing I really intend. And usually that
conversation goes something like, you've taken such great care of my
parents. And as we get into our fifties, in our sixties, in our 70s,
we'd like to maintain have a relationship was with you as well. So
it's just, you know, it is. It's just it's one thing to be. It's one
thing to tell prospects what you do. It's one thing to tell clients
what you do. It's quite another for them to experience it. And then
when they get to get to see how you've taken care of another member
of the family, there is that warm and fuzzy, that level of confidence
that they have just going into the relationship. So yes, that's
definitely happened. [:
John Diehl: [00:27:50] Well, Patty, a couple of tips as we close
today's podcast for for our listeners who have not yet checked out
our Hartford Funds material around a topic called Your Money Story,
there's some real good practical tools that you can use to begin to
understand the family dynamics. And secondly, I want to make sure
everybody knows Patti that you yourself have your own podcast called
the Patti Brennan Show. And if you're looking for that, you can look
at key financial dot com slash podcast and you'll be able to find
episodes. I know oftentimes advisors and financial professionals love
to hear from other financial professionals and want to make sure
everybody knows about your podcast and Patti just on our behalf.
Thanks for joining us today with your insight, as always. So. Always
good to work with you. [:
Patti Brennan: [00:28:39] Thank you both also for your time. I've
loved this, you know, these topics are so important because, you
know, it's not it's not what you're going to hear on CNBC, that's for
sure, right? Thanks to both of you, thanks to all of you who are
listening today, and I hope you all have a great day.
[:
Julie Genjac: [00:24:37] Thanks for listening to the Hartford Funds.
Human Centric Investing podcast, if you'd like to tune in for more
episodes. Don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts
inkedIn, Twitter or YouTube. [:
John Diehl: [00:24:51] And if you'd like to be a guest and share your
best ideas for transforming client relationships, email us a guest
booking at Hartford Funds dot com. We'd love to hear from you.