It seems there's a nonstop wave of messages saying you must hustle and grind your way to success, sacrificing your personal wellbeing and family to get closer to your professional goals. But is it really true and is it actually worth it? Joe Fier shares his journey from the relentless hustle and grind culture to achieving a more balanced professional and personal life, driven by a shift in his mindset and increased self awareness. Joe emphasizes the significance of setting clear boundaries and managing time effectively to avoid burnout while also putting into place support systems for maintaining overall well being.

Drawing on his early learnings, from his mother's work ethic and his father's people pleasing tendencies, Joe reveals how they shaped his perspectives and behaviors. With his dad's untimely death quickly followed by his first-born daughter's birth a mere two weeks later, he talks about the rollercoaster of emotional lows and highs that led him to reassess his habits and priorities. Joe is now clearer on who he wants to be and how he wants to be present, it's not just about financial success, it's now also about impact and actually living the life he and his wife want to live and call their own. Joe's story serves as an actual example of how intentional living can lead to both professional success and personal satisfaction.

In this episode, you will be able to:

·      Achieve work-life balance without sacrificing professional or personal success.

·      Discover the benefits of joining a men's accountability groups.

·      Explore the impact of personal development on professional success.

·      Understand the reason to move from the hustle to intentional living for a fulfilling life.

·      Learn to handle loss and build resilience for a brighter future.

The key moments in this episode are:

00:13:45 - The Dynamics of Partnerships and Boundaries

00:15:39 - Quietening the Mind and Breath Work

00:21:22 - Reflecting on Parental Influence

00:24:59 - Transitioning to Intentional Time Management

00:28:14 - Coping with Personal Loss and Gaining Insights

00:37:59 - The Power of Community and Intentional Choices

00:40:09 - Importance of Communication and Support

Connect with Joe Fier

Website

https://hustleandflowchart.com/

LinkedIn

https://www.linkedin.com/in/joefier/

Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/joefier/

Connect with Mike Forrester

Podcast Website

https://LivingFearlessTodayPodcast.com

Coaching Website

https://www.hicoachmike.com/

LinkedIn

https://www.linkedin.com/in/hicoachmike/

Youtube

https://www.youtube.com/@hicoachmike

Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/hicoachmike

Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/hicoachmike

Well, hello and welcome back, my friend, man.

Today I am with a friend, Joe Fier and Joe and I have had a chance

with Podfest and just talking about podcasts outside of this.

And honestly, as I was beginning my podcasting journey, Joe was

one of the presenters at like an online version of Podfest and man,

just dropped some amazing content.

But beyond just that content, Joe is such an encouraging guy.

He's a host of The Hustle and Flowchart Podcast and what you're going to

catch in those episodes It's not just the business side of things, right?

That's that's part of life, but it's also how do we live life?

How do I find balance and still be effective and live for joy?

Not just You know, my bottom line.

So man, Joe, I'm so excited to have you here today.

How are you doing today, my friend?

Hey Mike, it's so good to be here.

And yeah, we've been chatting about this, this concept in this

episode for a while now, so I'm happy we're making it happen, man.

Yeah, me too.

I mean, it's been one that as we've talked with each other about business

and the personal side, it's like, man, there is just so much that.

You know, we can get in our heads and think I'm the only one going through it.

And as you and I have talked about it, it's like, no, we're normal.

Yeah.

Give yourself a break a little bit, right?

You're, you're unique, but your situation might, I think a lot of others

have been through things like that.

And also a shared experience that we have is through not random,

nothing's random, but you know, you used to be essentially a neighbor.

Well, you were a high school rival of mine, different

eras, but same, same schools.

And, uh, you know, you're out in Kansas now, I'm in San Diego, but

I'm like, man, how cool is that?

So that's a shared, shared thing that we also have.

Yeah, the funny thing was we were still,

you know, talking about that.

I'm like, yeah, my wife actually went to your high school.

It's like, that's right.

All right, man.

We might as well have been neighbor neighbors and played baseball together.

Probably.

So yeah, man, I love what you're doing here for, for folks listening.

So yeah, this is gonna be fun.

I appreciate it, brother.

Yeah.

You've been super supportive and I appreciate that.

Thank you so much.

Got it.

Um, well, let's jump in.

What does life look like for you today on the professional side of life?

Professional side.

It's definitely expanding is what it feels like.

Um, I'm, I'm hitting my flow and you know, I've been doing this for over

15 years being an entrepreneur, a self starter I've had multiple businesses,

different partnerships along the way.

Yet now I feel like I've realized what my unique superpower is.

My, my unique abilities are in business translates to all factors,

but really for the business side, I'm seeing where, where, uh, the

scale of my superpowers can lie.

And really that's being a connector.

Like that's what it comes down to for me is, uh, connecting people,

connecting ideas, businesses, uh, strategies, strategies, like.

Yeah, it's connecting the dots and people have told me this

for years and now I'm realizing.

Oh, yeah, that's that's actually it It's not being in the weeds of everything.

It's It's not high level, but it's kind of like this middle

glue area is where I find myself.

So I'd say that's what's, that's, what's feeling, feeling good on the business run.

And that's awesome because it's like, if you look back, there's been

all these years of like startup and hustle and really grinding to get to this point.

And it, I think it's just a testimony to like, once you are persistent and

that momentum builds up, things change.

It doesn't always stay in that startup state.

So.

And we'll get into some of that here in a little bit as well.

So what does life look like on the personal side?

Great question.

I love that you bring both sides into this because I think of it all the time.

It's all, it all blends yet at the same time on the personal side, what

comes up is, so I have a four month old and I have a four year old.

So life is full in all, all regards.

Um, but when it comes to family, I feel tighter with my family than ever.

A lot more bonded.

Um, second child in different phase.

We'll talk about some of the ups and downs that actually have happened on both kids.

One of them you don't really know about, but very mirrored situations.

I'll just say that.

Um, so that's a little dog ear, but the, uh, the fact that it's brought me closer

and this is, It goes back to business.

I've settled myself into a like, what's my superpower where I can kind of

release mental, um, you know, the need to do a lot of other things in my mind.

So I could be more present at home because definitely family is

everything for me on the personal side.

Um, I'm feeling way more fulfilled with what I do, uh, with them.

But so I met, there's a lot of like time blocking and prioritization I didn't have

before that, that now I dedicate to them.

And, and myself, you know, there's, it's not just external to them, but,

um, my own being on the personal side, we'll get into some of those practices.

I'm sure.

Well, let's let's, since we're talking about time blocking,

let's jump into talking about, you know, some of the stuff that you've learned

along the way, because at one point.

Like part of your belief system was, Hey, I have to grind, grind, grind.

I have to put in all this work in order to see the success, feel

the success, and you know, be the business owner that I want to be.

Right.

It was a lot of investment of time, which means then you're going to

sacrifice in other areas, but you're now.

Like in a opposite position.

So what did it look like at that point?

When, when I say, you know, Hey, Joe, you were at this, you know, really

grinding kind of mindset to then how did you get to where you are now?

Yeah, so what I, you know, this transition from like the

hustle grind of like the day to day.

I probably made myself gray a little bit for doing that.

And, uh, I, I can't blame her, but I love her for it is my mom.

I think instilled some really heavy work ethic in me.

And there was a period of time I worked for a construction

company that she was a part of.

She was a, she moved her way up to be the VP of this pretty large.

Um, construction company here in San Diego, which there's no women in her role.

And her being the only woman that has basically done that in

all of like Southern California.

So it's like, you know, a lot of pressure that she put on herself and I,

there's a little history and I'm a big believer that, you know, I'm a, I'm a

result of conditioning and it's almost like the ceiling of what she knew for

herself and and saw as reality, you know, and I saw a cool quote is like our

parents and what they give us is like.

Ideally, it's their ceiling and it's our foundation or ground level that

we can continue to build from and I believe that's true and now experiencing

some wild stuff throughout life.

I think that is very true.

Um, so she gave me some great work ethic and at the same time.

It was, uh, it was me hustling and grinding, feeling like

I would have to buzz around.

People pleasing was part of it as well.

I know that quality, uh, was, and still is in me, which is great.

But at the same time, I think that also can go way the wrong direction.

And then.

You know, that's where you feel like you got to say yes to everything or

at least I Was kind of that guy and that led to a lot of grinding a lot of

hustle and not um, yeah Not taking a step back and prioritizing and again

going back to what are my strengths?

And what do I want out of this?

So i'm not perfect but at the same time now I I do slow myself down when

there's a decision or a new decision You know, uh, yeah, it's a fork in the

road in a sense where I know depending on the direction that I choose here,

it's going to open up different possibilities and I'm possibly closing

down others when I make that decision.

And, uh, and also it's like, what am I giving up by saying yes to this new thing?

You know, maybe it's time with the family or time with myself or expanding on a

project more than starting a new one, you know, it's like all of these different.

Things now pop into my mind and I'm a quick start by nature.

So I want to, you know, I mentioned right, right before we started the

KOLBE Assessment, K O L B E 55 bucks.

I think it's one of the best investments that you can make in

yourself and you get an understanding of who you are and how you like to

operate like quick start or not.

I'm on a nine quick start out of 10 so actually I think it's out of nine.

So, um, I'm up there and.

So I'm a visionary type and I know that, but I'm not one to get in the weeds.

Like that's where things will crumble, you know?

So it's like, that's why I'm supported by team.

Now I have team and I can, uh, really balance out my calendar by

time blocking, like you mentioned.

And it keeps me, keeps me in order.

You know, I'm not taking calls after three o'clock typically.

Yeah.

At least they can't get on my schedule without me saying yes to it.

It's gotta be the right reason.

So buffers like that have no calls on Fridays.

Except for you, literally, you were the only one and it is a rare thing.

Yeah.

And like I, I promise you it's, it's the case.

So that's what keeps me.

Yeah.

Not hustling and grinding too hard.

Well, I appreciate you making the exception.

I mean, we've been working the schedule and finally landed on a time.

So thank you for the flexibility there.

Of course.

Um, so.

When you're kind of on this quick start, you know, dude, I've, I

have personally gone through this.

I've met lots of other men where it's like, Hey, I can start.

I can start.

I can start.

But you can either get into the point of, Hey, I don't want to let this die.

Right?

So it's almost an identity issue, but you don't complete it.

Um, And then from the sounds of it, you also have, have

been able to transition, right?

You're not married to the idea.

It's like, Hey, this isn't working.

Let me go ahead and try something else.

Do you see that?

Hey, yeah, I'm still able to be flexible and finish things, um, without being, you

know, Committed right to that, that idea in order to, to be successful, I have

to finish this and I can't let it die.

And, you know, do you, do you see that you've got that kind of flexibility

. Joe Fier: Yeah.

And I do.

I feel like that's over the last handful of years.

I've molded that a lot more so than, um, I feel like I was pretty flexible

in the beginning because I didn't know a lot, you know, and like the beginning

of my career, especially online and, um, different scenarios, you know,

I had business partners and stuff.

So it's like, I, there's, there's different approaches

to solving the problem.

And, you know, I, I think there's a point to where I started learning a lot more.

So then, You know, it's almost one and it's like, okay, why

can't this just get done?

But then when, you know, you're working with teams and stuff, you, you gotta

be flexible or business partners.

And, you know, I've very experienced in, in all those respects.

I've always had teams of some sort, even from the very beginning,

I knew I couldn't do it all.

There was like a phase of me doing it myself for like maybe

a good year, uh, to start up.

But then I was like, Nope, need help.

Like start outsourcing on Upwork or whatever it was called back then.

And then, um, and then finally now I'm like, I can't do it without

someone that's supporting me, at least on the finer details.

And yeah, I mean now more than ever, it's, it's, uh, patience I think is

key because my natural ability, like I remember back in school, I would be

the one that didn't want to do team projects because I had to get it done

because I think I was burned at an early time when like these group projects

I'm thinking like elementary school and then like, you know, inherently.

Like, it wasn't like I wanted to necessarily do them, but I'm.

The people pleaser in me was like, it's got to get done.

So I guess I'll just do it myself.

So it's crazy, but like, I've done a lot of work on myself, like going

back in the, and like, it's that whole, like, it's got to get done.

So Joe's just going to do it.

And, um, that's what I've had to break, you know, like that

mentality going into things.

There's like, wait, hold on.

I can ask for help.

I can get a team around me.

To, to shore up the things that maybe I'm not great at, or I'm like burning

out on, you know, staying up too late, grinding it out where I should just

like, Hey, I'll pay someone this, but you know, what's my hourly rate or

whatever my worth is for this thing and get super intentional on, you know,

maybe there's a different approach.

That's, that's always going through my mind now.

Do you feel like that mindset was what led to burnout

as like you were going through the process and building the business?

Yes, it was that, um, you know, with partnerships or any team,

you know, there's a dynamic there too.

So it's for the longest time, you know, I had my, my buddy and, and, um, old

business partner, Matt Wolf, and, you know, you followed along for a long time.

I just hung out with him the other day.

We're still great buds.

And, and at the same time, you know, it's kind of like a marriage.

I mean, you're, when you're in a business partnership.

You gotta, you gotta support each other.

As you've talked about, like, Hey, I changed

my mindset from just hustling.

And you've built in these boundaries, like in your schedule, in your time, like

How did you make that transformation?

Because there's a lot of guys it's like can't imagine what they

would do with their life outside of like being focused on work.

How did you make that transition and switch your focus?

Yeah, it's, it's a solid question.

And it's not to say that, you know, I have a ton of free time because I still,

I enjoy the creativeness of business.

And what I've found is where, well, even the word business, I, I try to reframe

that in my mind, and not a lot of people see it this way, but it's busyness.

If you look at the word, it's busyness.

Do you really want to be busy?

I literally remind myself all the time, and that's where I'm selective

with calls, because that's the biggest thing that will take a lot of my time

are calls and switching costs, you know, switching from thing to thing.

And that's why I deliberately put, you know, after 3 p.

m.

no calls.

So I get some quiet time.

Either to work deeper on something or it is deliberate time with

the family during a time.

I know, you know, um, and again, I have two small kids.

So it's like, I know this is the time to leave a really good impression on him.

So, uh, I spend that time.

That's that's an investment that I know I can't get back later.

So, um, That's one of the reasons how I can keep my mind full because

like I'm when I'm with them.

I'm with them because I know if I'm like trying to solve business

problems, which can happen.

Um, you know, in the moment when I'm hanging out my

kids, that's let's be honest.

It's pretty hard to focus on business if I have a toddler or a, uh, you

know, a pretty newborn in front of me.

So it kind of supports me in that.

Uh, but back to like, you know, Friday is off.

It's not like I'm off working, but I definitely have more time to

think to, um, to not switch costs.

It's to focus a little deeper.

I kind of do that on Mondays a little bit as well.

Um, but yeah, when it goes to like, I like to think and I like to kind of

unload my mind and I have tools to do that so I'm not spinning around in my

mind, you know, with what about this?

What about that?

Or what do I got to do next?

Uh, tomorrow or whatever it might be.

So I try to unload my mind as much as possible and I have some apps for that.

You know, either write it down or use an app like the Oasis.

It's a pretty cool app.

It's like five bucks a month, but I just literally ramble into my phone

and it will capture my crazy thoughts and I could put them into a to do list

or maybe it's an email I want to write to someone and at least it's out of my

mind and I can move on with my time.

So that's a big one is quieting the chatter up top here, you

know, um, that's a good one.

And then, uh, you know, we mentioned it prior to, but breath work,

I love to do, it could be five minutes or it could be an hour long.

Typically it's something shorter end, but you know, like when I'm done working or

before work or when I'm feeling stressed, when I actually realize it in the moment,

I'll do like five to 10 minutes of like.

Wim Hoff style, something that gets my mind to kind of refocus,

you know, and that's kind of like deep inhales, kind of like this

whole, there's like three patterns.

You can look it up on YouTube if you're not familiar, but the whole thing is, it's

just heightening the energy in your body.

It usually clears out any, any kind of cobwebs I have might

have in my mind or stuckness.

I know it's hard to describe, but then when I do it, I'm like,

Man, I should do this more often.

And then it's just like, I'm, I'm kind of like a fresh person, you know?

Um, yeah, those are a couple of the ways I, I handle that situation there.

That's cool.

I like that you've built in the transition and you're also in the

process giving yourself grace, man.

You're not going, dude, I know this and then berating yourself.

It's like, I know to do this, you know, okay, let me work on this.

Let me look for the area of improvement.

Yep.

So, you know, being mindful and self aware,

man, I love that you've made that transition and brought that about.

Um, I do want to jump back.

Uh, you had talked about like how we can, um, get patterning

or like, you know, are we're impressionable from our parents, right?

Um, as far as, you know, Your hustle perspective had been, what do you see

that were things that were impressed upon you, um, as a kid, as a young

adult from both of your parents that then you may have reassessed as you,

you know, you're a husband and, and going along and becoming a father that

didn't serve you well at that time.

Yeah, there was so the hustle, you know, in terms of the work ethic, I

think is a great thing that was instilled.

But at the same time, I think, you know, I brought up the people pleasing

and I don't know where that came up.

But I know even in like the earliest child, like school that was,

Something, you know, it's like, Oh, the teachers all loved me.

And it's probably, it wasn't like I was the loudest or like answering

all the questions, but I was just like, I think I just showed up.

I was always nice, blah, blah, which is great, great qualities.

But at the same time, um, that was probably instilled.

I mean, you know, my parents, they divorced when I was in middle school.

So that was a time where, you know, I was still trying to figure out who

I am socially, where I fit in and.

I think that that probably triggered in leading up to that, you know,

there was parents loved each other.

But at the same time, there was this like, um, there was sometimes anger.

There was, uh, you know, like, not totally connected.

So I don't know if that rubbed off on me to be like, all right,

I got to prove myself somehow.

Or there's all these little things that I think about that, you know,

that shaped up to be like, okay, well, how did I shape up this way?

And like, yeah.

Um, I don't know.

And who knows the answers?

But the point is, like, I realized, uh, yeah, they did the best they could.

And like every parent, you know, we're all in our own place doing our best.

And I think we all hit that ceiling, you know, and we're not aware of what it is.

And the fact that, like, I try to recognize the patterns.

Um, you know, I learned a lot from my dad and I'm sure we'll talk about his,

you know, his, uh, untimely passing.

And, uh, I learned a lot after that point on, like there's different

points and phases where I'm like, Ooh, wow, that's where that came from.

Or, ooh, you know, that's something to notice and and maybe try to do a

little differently or teach my daughters in a way that might be slightly

modified from what I was taught.

Not saying anything was bad at all, but just almost like these adjustments where

I'm like, okay, I could see how that could shape up into something that's a

little little something that I don't want popping up in their lives, you know so

Yeah, I think that's the amazing power that we

as parents have right is to Look at who we are what we've experienced

and then how do we want that to to?

To bring that to bear on our children and you know, because you know, that's part

of the legacy We're gonna leave man, and

that's it

you you wanna Be as loving as you can with your children.

Um, none of us want to impart anything negative, but we're human.

It's going to happen, but it's how do I leave as much positive and

healthy and loving as I can and you making that change and being me.

You know, intentional on your boundaries and your focus,

dude, that's, that's amazing.

That's a large shift.

Um, yeah, absolutely.

That's a large shift in the right direction, man.

Um,

I think so too, man.

Yeah.

And I'm at home too.

And, uh, just to round this out, it's so interesting.

My wife was super intentional.

Like when she was young, she wrote out all of these things

that she wanted in a partner.

And I think she shared with her mom and her mom was like, that's never going to

happen because it was things like, and not like her mom is very supportive still is,

but it was like, okay, I want a husband.

That's at home with me all the time.

I don't want to have to work too much.

You know, and she's talking about herself because I want to support the kids,

but I want my husband there as well.

And we're both going to make a bunch of money.

We're going to have a great life.

We're going to have a A family that feels tight.

We're hanging out all day long.

And she's like, how is that even possible?

You know, and this is pre internet days, pre all of this other stuff, but.

Yeah, we look around.

I'm like, no, I've been hanging out with them all morning.

You're the first time, you know, halfway through the day that I walked

into my office to actually get on a call, was I doing work before?

Yeah, I did some stuff on my laptop hanging around, but I was hanging out

with them, enjoying a thunderstorm and hail storm in San Diego and all

enjoying recording videos, being silly, throwing snow hail balls at each other.

It's like, like that's.

We are living the life and then all of us have the ability to do that.

And it's just so interesting how she was so intentional with that.

And I could see, I mean, that's, it's, where do you want to go?

Right.

It's like have the North star, what do you want?

And then kind of like when you start to see it, you can believe it.

And I, and I hope this kind of gives that a little bit too.

It's not like you need to model what I'm doing, but they're just

believe that there's more in whatever ceiling that we all have.

Yeah, it, there is.

I think always more, right?

You and I have both talked about this is there's always more, but how

do we determine what it is we want?

Because so many of us, and I'm guilty of this as well, I got

focused on what don't I want?

And I wasn't clear on what I do want, where, when I look at you,

like, you know, you've talked about, Hey, we're going to Hawaii.

I'm putting the phone away because I don't want to be connected.

And I do want to be.

You know, present with my family and create these memories.

I mean, how long did it take you to go from like that grind to where you are?

Just, you know, recently you got back from Hawaii, right?

With the family.

Um, how long did it take?

Take to make that transition in your life because I mean, it's not overnight

that that you've got this to come about.

It helped with being intentional with my timing.

And this is still a work in progress.

And I got to give my wife a ton of credit because when it comes to me

being a quick start, one that wants to

I want to talk with more people.

I'm very social.

And, um, and I see there's a lot of ways to solve a problem.

And like, oh, I'm curious enough where I'm like, I bet I can help that.

I can fix that.

I can, you know, do that.

Whereas she's my stabilizer.

Like, she's the one that's like, okay, well.

Let's get intentional throughout the week and try to reduce switching costs.

So maybe like, you know, put certain like podcasting, for instance, I podcast on

just Thursdays every other week, but then every other week from that point on is

a Thursday where I guest on other shows.

Or maybe I'll have some other calls, but I try to kind of silo things in

their own little groupings there.

So I'm not thinking about podcasting all week long.

I mean, that's, that's probably the best way is like I can silo it out and I

can get ahead of things, you know, and.

Allow space so when I know I'm going to Hawaii or in what next

month going to Mexico for a week I'll still have work there.

But at the same time I'm gonna make sure that calendars blocked off.

No one's getting on my calendar Without me knowing otherwise.

And yeah, in my mind, I just know I can put down the cell phone

that I'm always connected with.

Um, you know, my, my notifications aren't going to blow up everywhere.

And my, you know, my Apple watch or all these things, I'm going

to be able to walk away, silent those, um, my team helps as well.

So I'm not going to lie.

It's not all just me, you know, it's, but I think being very intentional

is something I didn't do before.

Having partnerships, I mean, help, but sometimes don't help because

sometimes you feel like, okay, well, I'm leaving on a vacation, but I

feel a little guilt that they're back working in like handling stuff.

So that came up back in the day when working with Matt or even other people.

So.

And again, that's a conversation, that's just expectations as

well, and pre planning, so.

All that stuff helped me, you know, and, and again, I'm not

typically a super long pre planner.

My wife is, so got to give her a lot of credit to support me.

She's like my COO, I would say.

She's a partner in my company, so she's a very silent partner,

which is how she likes it.

She's like, you go be the face.

I will keep things organized.

Yes.

Yep.

But that's my whole team too.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's not just her.

It's yeah.

That's helpful is like knowing your strengths, right?

You get to work to your strength and she supports you through her strengths.

And it's like you guys are both supporting each other in raising your family.

Um, so it's like the cohesiveness in, in both areas, both personal and

professional and I'm feeding each other.

Well, you had alluded to this earlier back in 2019 your father did have an untimely.

passing and it was like two weeks before your first daughter, who's now four years

old, uh, before she was born, can you kind of shed some light on what happened?

And then, um, you know, like the insights that you gained from that,

because those insights then fed into how you were living your life or, or the

changes you made in living your life.

Yeah, Mike, you brought up a point in my life that, um, it was

very unexpected, but at the same time it, you know, with my, um, two weeks

from the time my, my daughter was born.

So my first daughter, you know, leading up to that point, it was nearly a decade

of trying to have her in the first place.

We did a whole, we had a whole infertility struggles.

You know, IVF paid a bunch of money, stress the whole nine, not fun, but so,

but we were having a great time, you know, almost, almost the time that we're

going to meet her and it was about two weeks, like two and a half weeks, got

this knock at the front door at six a.m.

Like, that's not normal.

And I peeked out there and it was a, it was a gentleman, you

know, just business attire.

I'm like, this is kind of strange.

And, um, Ended up kind of, I was like, who the hell can this be?

And then finally I open it up after a second knock.

I'm like, okay, that went a little bit more forceful.

I'm like, well, shoot, open the door.

Ended up being a deputy.

So Sheriff here in San Diego coming with some news and the news was that my

father passed away the evening before and, um, he sat me down, sat my wife down

pregnant wife, you know, and woke her up and, uh, essentially was told your dad

committed suicide last night at 6 p.m.

And, um, not a lot of details, but just, I was the very first one to know.

Luckily they were able to send that news somehow, but yeah, that rocked me

because that was completely unexpected.

Um, no indication prior to, but you know, as you, as you said,

there were patterns, right?

Like I, I started understanding not immediately, of course I was in shock,

but also in wondering like how, why, you know, it's all those things and

losing A parent in general, you know, like that was the biggest fear of my

life, you know, is, is losing my dad or my mom and my mom, both of them.

And, um, this one happened out of the blue and, uh, way too early.

So yeah, that was two weeks, you know, and there's this, that immediately

took my head out of the game.

And these are one of the points where I'm happy.

I had a business partner, Matt and I, and I think we were supposed to record

a bunch of podcasts that day too.

So he's like, dude, I got it.

I got you.

Be with your family.

Do what you got to do.

So I appreciate him tremendously for, for handling that.

And, um, on, on that side, cause I literally, my brain was not in it for

probably a good, another two weeks.

And then, and then, and then I had the birth of my daughter,

um, which was so wild.

I mean, it's surreal where this like the lowest low, and then.

The highest high and I don't even know what to call it, but, um, I had tears

in my eyes when I saw her for the first time and I don't cry much, but just

like, bam, turned on, you know, and did that with my second daughter as well.

Well, this is so crazy how that happens.

I remember in the moment I was just like, wow, bodies are weird, but you

know, it's just like, like stone cold, not saying I'm still in cold, but

you know, it's just like emotions.

And, um, Yeah, so just that feeling of that big low, big up and I'll say,

you know, Mike, like the last, like that, I would say it's a good two years

of time where it was me going like, holy moly, something like my life just

got turned around in so many ways.

And it had me analyzing.

What I learned about my dad and how ultimately how I see a lot of the

patterns that he had and I also have them embodied in me, you know, they

were conditioned in early, early life.

And now, you know, I've seen some markers of like, okay, like looking back and this

was a little bit of time after he passed is like, I could see some of the patterns.

He You know, he used to be a really avid runner and get out

and move his body, get outside.

And he stopped doing that.

Um, he used to play music, guitar and sing and hang out with friends and, and,

you know, perform and stuff like that.

He stopped doing that.

Uh, he moved to a different location and was with a girlfriend.

Don't think the girlfriend was that great.

So that was a different change, you know, and kind of took him away from him.

I think like is really what ultimately happened.

Um, communication wasn't happening as much and as men, um, well, let's just

be honest, suicide in general right now, not just in men, but just in general

is up, uh, when it comes to driven men.

And this is where, like on my podcast with entrepreneurs, I

think that's a serious issue.

And, and, you know, COVID didn't help at all.

And, you know, he passed right before COVID, but shoot, I mean, it would have

been probably even worse during COVID for him, to be very honest, you know, and,

um, and I feel for a lot of men and women, that's not, and honestly, the younger

generation, too, there's a lot of people who got stressed out during that time and,

and, you know, Not to jump or get out.

I don't think it's off topic, but like with AI and all of these changes in

the world that are happening so fast.

I mean, people's livelihoods are changing right now more than they

probably realize or like their jobs are changing the ways that economy.

There's all these factors that are happening so quick that

most of us can't keep up with.

And I just think of like, how does that, how does someone deal with that

if they don't have the support or they're not communicating, you know,

and I, I don't, I hope the trend doesn't increase, but honestly, it might, you

know, for a little bit, um, unless and that's why I urge anyone listening

here is like, you know, know that.

You are not alone and know that there's always people to talk with.

And I'll just, I'll just give the shout out right now here.

Mike is like, if you want to reach out to me, obviously you could follow the podcast

and feel like you have a community.

You have this with Mike too, but hit me up.

Like my email is Joe@hustleandflowchartcom.

Like.

That goes straight to me.

My team might help kind of, uh, let you know if I'm busy or not, but like, I'll

see it, you know, it'll be starred if it's coming from someone who's listened,

because like, if you relate to any of this, just know that, you know, you're,

you're not, not the same, uh, not alone.

So, yeah, I don't know.

I, I, I, The two years, there were a lot of shifts after I lost my dad, gained

a child, um, ended up actually ending a long term business relationship with Matt.

And, um, so it had me like, there were a lot of these things that I was like, whew!

And, you know, I noticed.

My anger popped up in some of this.

My anxiety level, my, there were like feelings of panic attack in my chest,

like after certain days of work, because I felt like I wasn't going down the

right path and these were all signs.

I'm like, no, no, that's not me.

Like, that's not normal Joe, right there.

Something needs to change, and the change ain't go unalive myself,

because that's how some people go.

Or, um, run away from my family, or not talk.

Or, you know, all these things.

Those are They're all patterns are all things like the key is

to like, no, like lean into more of who you are, like slow down.

What's that thing that makes you happy?

Is it go outside, take a walk?

Is it play guitar?

Is it sing whatever, like go run, um, find those things.

I think those habits that make you, you are like more life

changing than you ever believe.

And they could be the most simple things.

Get enough sleep too.

That probably is a, is a good starter because most of us don't get that either.

Man, I think that that is such a prime example, Joe, because we

can postpone our personal growth, right?

Or making changes, improving our self awareness, any number of things that it's

like a one day when things calm down hint.

They don't,

what's one day.

Yeah.

It's when is one day it doesn't occur because it's like, I look at what's

gone on for you for the last five years.

And it's like, for me on the last five years, you know, it's

been like, um, I've had two.

Grandchildren born.

I've had my father in law pass away.

My dad passed away.

Um, we've now got my mother in law that's, you know, in assisted living

and, and we're primary kind of involvement, you know, with her making

sure she's okay and everything like that.

I mean, she's in assisted living, but that's not hands off, you know, and

it's like, If, if either you or I were to postpone, Hey, I'll work on myself

when things calm down, it doesn't come.

So you, you've created like, Hey, I'm involved with a men's

group, specific group of men.

You check in regularly, accountability, and this, this

kind of creates that insulation.

You know, like where you talked about the life changes your dad went

through that weren't who he was.

You've kind of created almost like a.

A monitoring system, like an alert system.

Uh, I mean, is, is that kind of what you would see as well,

or is it different for you?

That's a good way to put it.

It's an alert system because there we have a, there's a men's group, you know,

smaller group of men, just about five of us, but there is a larger group.

You know, there's kind of a larger community as well that, um, but the

small group we check in very often, um, used to be every single day.

Now it's, it's more on the weekly basis because we're rearranging some of the

things, but we check in on our patterns, how we're doing, um, habits, You know,

this is a group where we actually track pretty dang closely our daily habits.

You know, like there's checklists, there's typically like 10

things we want to stay true to.

And they're all personal things.

And like I mentioned, sleep, working out, um, getting enough water, even hydration.

It's like a lot of simple stuff.

But again, it's like you're, you tick the boxes, you're, you're starting to

compound in the right direction, you know, of, of what you actually want.

So the men's group has been great, man.

Um, I have them on the, on my podcast sometimes we talk about it and the

ultimate thing is being more conscious and aware of what we're doing because

it's the choices we're making now, you know, like I was kind of mentioning, they

steer the direction that we want to go.

So as long as you have generally a North star or a vision of

what you want to accomplish.

If you surround yourself with people that can actually, like, understand

and, you know, not only, you know, keep a lookout for if you're going off

course, but at least they can support you, give you feedback if, uh, maybe

you're saying something that's not aligned with what you say you want.

And I think that's the biggest thing is like, you got to know what you want.

Or else, like, what are you doing all this for?

Yeah, you might as well, I don't know, like, wrap it up and go do

something else, unless you really figure out what you got going on.

Because, yeah, you got to be the leader of your life, but know

that there's a team to support.

That's what the men's group's great for.

And, um, I think that's what you do so well too, is you're supporting,

you know, uh, men in this kind of way.

And, you know, there's groups, there's, it could be one on one, there's a

lot of formats, but the key is to communicate and to have people you

trust around you to support your vision.

Yeah.

Not, not lone wolfing it in isolation because that's like, if we look at

the suicide, you know, statistics that you talked about earlier,

and that's a big thing withdraw.

And then it's like, there's nobody around and you just feel like.

Detached unwanted.

Your worth goes, you know, out the window and dude, what you're

doing keeps you in that spot.

Um, so as you've gotten to this place, what is it that you're doing

to get yourself to the next place?

Like you've mentioned.

10 things like that.

You're doing with the men, but I'm assuming you've got things that

you're like, Hey, these are my goals.

Um, and then you're taking daily actions.

Um, maybe habits to get to that point.

Like, what have you begun incorporating to get there?

Yeah, for me, it's, it's really, it's, it's getting clear on,

It's kind of shaving off a lot of the things that just aren't serving.

It's kind of a iterative process.

I'm always going through, I mean, it's an endless journey to know oneself,

you know, it's like, you know, I have all the philosophers, like, you know,

I've said this kind of stuff and it's like, man, I honestly, I love it because

I'm like, oh man, I didn't think about that, you know, and maybe it's a way I.

To ask myself a question or what I said earlier.

It's like when I say yes to something, what is it that I'm giving up?

Like, what's the trade off here?

And there's a lot of that, I would say.

And because I'm at a point where I'm surrounding myself with, with a lot

of old friends, which is kind of cool.

But with that, like, these are friends I've, I've I've worked parallel with,

but now I'm starting to come together with certain friends who have, you

know, some have great networks, some have great ideas, and we're all kind

of like collaborating and co creating.

And I think that's, what's the coolest piece is I'm doing

that in personal life too.

Like there's other friends and like one of them, I'm sometimes forget this,

but I'm the VP of his company is, is a old friend of mine from a band days.

I have a guitar over here.

And he runs a very successful company in, uh, Riverside County, in San Diego.

Uh, basically, uh, supporting kids with autism, people on the spectrum

in home and giving them care, and he has hundreds of, People, you

know, doing this every single day.

Um, I'm technically his VP, I don't think I've ever actually said that publicly,

but it's more of like advising, hanging out, but we're discussing problems

and way to arrange what we're doing.

But at the same time, I find it as fun because I'm hanging out with one of my

best friends and we have a lot in common.

Like, ultimately, that's what it is.

We're bouncing ideas off of, he doesn't want to live in a bubble.

That was why he chose me.

Uh, similar.

It's like, we get to talk about the deep and dark things that

are stressing him out as well.

So what's really cool is, you know, when I'm working with, uh, it's

like I co create more, you know, in this example, I'm telling about

my, my buddy who has this company, that I'm a VP with, it's like.

Well, we're actually traveling to Mexico together as well.

Like I mentioned Mexico earlier.

It's like, well, going with him and his wife and his kid

and, and my family as well.

You know, it's, it's technically it's for the business, but it's also, you

know, it's also for ourselves and, you know, these little bits of co creating

in terms of my life, that's honestly what I would love to do in general.

It's co create with people that I enjoy who have expansive visions, people

who are doing great things for people.

Like in his case, helping a whole bunch of people that are underserved and don't have

funding and all that, you know, uh, people on the spectrum, but at the same time,

it's like, and then what I'm doing with businesses or in the podcast, you know,

in my show and similar to what you're doing, I see that there's an impact.

So.

That's what lights me up is co creation, impact, and, and family, honestly, and

it's making sure everything's grounded and going the right direction that

we're always busting through those ceilings that we may or may not be

aware of, but yeah, it's, it's just always upward, you know, and I don't

know my brain, it's infinitely curious.

So it's never going to stop.

So I'm going to stop.

I don't think it should.

Should it really stop though?

Because that curiosity feeds everything.

I mean, that's part of that.

That joy, right?

It, it, it feeds into all areas of your life.

That's right.

Well, dude,

Joe, thank you so much for joining me today to, to share about

the fact of, Hey, your self awareness and watching what we're doing and

surrounding ourself with relationships and being intentional, you know, to

where we're spending our time and having boundaries to protect, you know, both

our professional and our personal lives.

Dude, I really appreciate all you've shared and brought to the

table because it's something that.

You know, we as men need to look at and be aware of and practice.

But dude, I think most importantly on that is the grace that

you've shown to yourself, Joe.

You're not being hypercritical or demeaning belittling of yourself.

You're continuing to grow and giving yourself that room.

So I really appreciate it, brother.

Mm.

Thanks for seeing me that way,

man.

Yeah,

absolutely.

Um, cause that's the way you're presenting yourself, you know, that's how

I want to be seen too.

So it's, it's nice to hear the validation, you know, so

absolutely, man, my pleasure.

Well, outside of this podcast, how can men get in touch with you, Joe?

Yeah.

Thank you for, for that setup.

And, and, and genuinely, you know, I mentioned earlier with the

email, reach out to me personally, joe at hustle and flow chart.

com.

If you want to bounce any ideas or just, just say something,

get something off your chest.

Like that's, that's how you get directly, uh, holding me there.

Go listen to the podcast.

You know, we mentioned Hustle and Flowchart, find it

HustleAndFlowchart.Com or on YouTube.

You can look up my name, Joe Fier.

Yeah.

F I E R.

Um, I mean, that's how you can see more of these topics wrapped

in kind of a business sense.

But I'd say it's great for any driven person, you know, because the whole thing

is, I'm always, you know, do the best he can and excel kind of like what we've

been talking, but find your enough, like find when it call it a balance, more

like a harmony in what you're doing.

And that's, that's what I like to talk about there on the show.

So those are the two ways.

Thank you.

Fantastic.

Absolutely, man.

I appreciate it.

So thank you so much, Joe.

Yeah.

And Hey, can't wait to hear from y'all.

So, uh, reach out.

I'll be waiting.

Absolutely.