On this episode, the B2B team discuss their recent Vet Net Ally seminar, a training program that helps faculty and staff better support veteran and military-connected students, as they transition to college. The episode explores how the training builds awareness of veterans’ unique experiences, communication styles, and challenges while providing practical strategies for creating a welcoming, supportive campus environment. It also highlights the importance of connecting students with the right resources and meeting their needs through research-based, student-centered approaches.

Mentioned This Episode:

Website: Vet Net Ally

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Website: Lansing Community College Center for Veteran and Family Support

Welcome to B2B, Boots 2 Books, the show where we explore the journeys of veterans and military connected students, as they navigate their paths from service to the classroom and beyond. I'm Dustin Abrego. And I'm Rebecca Allen, your hosts. Each week, we will dive into powerful stories of resilience, determination, and success. Whether you're a veteran yourself, a military family member, or simply inspired by the strength of those who serve, you're in the right place. Let's turn the page and start this incredible journey together.

Hello. Welcome back to B2B. I'm Dustin Abrego.

And I'm Rebecca Allen.

Rebecca, what are we chatting about this week?

We are going to talk about Vetnet Ally. So, as you know, Vetnet Ally is a training that we offer here at LCC.

Today is June 23rd and we did the training this morning, so it is fresh in our minds.

But I thought it would be a good idea for us to kind of share it a little bit more in case there's anyone that's interested in learning more about the training and taking it with us the next time we offer it.

Yeah. So I guess this is a promo for anyone that's going to be at LCC taking it in the future. Couldn't sign up because this was during the summer and.

Or this training or similar type trainings exist nationally. So if you're at a different company, different school, for sure these type of trainings do exist.

If you give you a broad overview of working with veterans, what the, what's that like?

Yes. So for those who maybe aren't at lcc, other schools will offer it and they'll call it Green Zone training.

So some schools will offer vetnet, some schools will offer Green Zone. I have seen, like mental health first aid has a veteran specific format and they'll talk about some similar things.

Obviously it's not education oriented, but there's, there's a lot of very similar trainings out there. So for anyone that is interested, I'd highly recommend looking into those. So I wanted to just kind of give a little background on Vetnet Ally.

So it was developed by Dr. Marshall Thomas at the California State University, Long beach, and he modeled it after an LGBTQ Safe Zone training.

So it kind of gives the same format of how to provide a welcoming environment, I guess, for members of the particular community that the training is targeted towards. So it's got three main goals.

It is to educate staff and faculty, which is obviously the biggest thing is making sure that staff and faculty understand how to interact and how to support veteran and military connected students and then foster a supportive campus atmosphere, making sure that those students understand that this is a place where they are welcome and then establishing a network of visible allies for veterans and military families. So when we complete the training here, we give all of the participants Vetnet ally stickers and a lot of them will put them on their doors.

So then that way, especially for instructors, if a military connected student goes to speak with them, they can see that and be like, okay, you know, this, this is someone who could potentially understand where I'm coming from things. You obviously have been here a little bit longer than I have. Sure. How long, how long have we been offering this training?

I'm not totally certain. I believe, I think we'd have to double check with Andrew. I think eight years at least.

I think in the timeframe that Andrew's been here for in some form or fashion. It's been something that we've been offering as institutions. Sometimes twice a school year, sometimes once.

It depends on demand and what that looks like overall. Right?

Yeah. And I know this is the second one that we've done since I've been here. We did the last one right before Veterans Day last year.

And I know that we're looking to do it at least a couple of times a year and I wanted to talk about why we offer it and who benefits from it.

Again, I think it's really important that we are educating staff and faculty with this information because it can be a very intimidating setting to be in as, as a military connected student. You know, we, we talk a lot in Vet net ally about what that transition looks like.

And for a lot of our military connected students, it's their first time coming into higher education.

And so having civilian faculty and staff that understand that there's still an aspect of what our military service looks like that can affect how we're approaching this. I think it can be really beneficial.

I think that the. I should have highlighted it earlier again that transition time of.

And what we had talked about last time when we were with Travis of saying three months was very quick, I was still just shocked. And when we said three years, that's the actual time frame. Because again, this training is research backed, focused.

I believe it was in their dissertation, something like that. Right. Of this Dr. Marshall Thomas. So it's all grounded in research.

When we're talking about why you should attend and other things, it can sound very oh feelings.

I want to make sure that whatever these are psychological principles, gun in theory and research and other things of how the adaptation for veterans who are at a risk population for not continuing graduating overall with a degree should be focused on. And I think it's a. To pull another psychology term like the Dunning Kruger effect, like you don't know what you don't know type deal.

And I think working with veterans, people don't know that.

Yeah.

And today we had several different times where I would say something or one of you all would say something and there was some, oh, that's why, oh my gosh, that makes so much sense. Or I didn't realize that there was a lot of aha. Or like moments where it clicked for people.

And I think that's what the training offers is a lot of a broad view depth, but allows some like, interpersonal aspects that people will come across, whether they're in a, like customer service facing position role or in a classroom facing role that they don't know. They don't know these type of things. And I didn't know that.

Ironically enough, I didn't go through this training before I was in this role working with veterans because I had done that a little bit previously.

But I was lucky to supervise some people that were in ROTC and also National Guard and stuff when I worked at Central previously that they were really accommodating for my knowledge to be able to. So I got a preface on some things. But this overall has shaped it. So you don't know what you don't know and unless you are, it's helpful for everyone.

Yeah, I did enjoy those moments today when you could see some of those people go, oh, yep, all right, that explains this interaction or this interaction. We did have a couple of participants that mentioned that as well.

And even when I was talking about some of my pieces with Understanding Identity and that shift there, there were some people, like, you could see their eyes get a little bit wider as they start thinking about, oh, yeah, what would it be like to be 18 and fresh, graduated from high school and to go into this, this entire culture and then to just be dropped back out of it into what we consider the real world again. You could, you could see the look of like, yeah, they were processing that. And I always enjoyed that kind of stuff.

Yes.

Because it does help me feel like, yeah, we're making that connection for people so then they understand when they're talking with that student next time.

I don't, I can't convey the interaction outside of having people really convey it.

Like when we've had Dylan and Roy talked about where we made the reference to Dylan waking Up getting ready for PT in the morning and all those things in movies. Because again, this is civilian facing. Like, I'm not calling this the same thing, but it's similar to people getting out of like being incarcerated.

Like I think of like Shawshank Redemption movie that a lot of people have seen where he's out and he just goes to the apartment and he's like, someone has to pick him up, right?

Yep.

Might not have your own vehicle, what that looks like. And then he's just in an apartment, he's like, now what?

Yep.

Like I was on a set schedule, I was on all these things. And I mean, very different and similar opinions. When there's people fresh out of high school and it's like, so when do I go to class?

When you have class, when do I study? Whenever you want. And having that freedom can be freeing, but also infinite possibilities are not good overall for people.

Yeah, it can be incredibly overwhelming.

Yes, yes, exactly.

So I feel like when we talk about who this training benefits and obviously it's meant to benefit our students, our military connected students. So then that way they have these support systems that are in place.

But again, going back to being able to make that connection, I think this is extremely beneficial for our staff. And it's not just faculty that we're training. It's not just the instructors who are seeing students in class every day.

We've had people from financial aid, we've had people from. We've had a lot of success coaches come through. We've had, I believe some academic advisors that have come through Starzone staff.

We had someone from tech careers today.

So I really like that we get such a diverse spread from across faculty and staff here because some of these individuals may not interact with these students very often, but now they are able to have that moment of, okay, well now I know that this is a veteran student or a military connected student. And now I can think back to, okay, what did Dustin say about this particular situation?

Like, oh, I am suddenly the person that this student feels comfortable talking to about concerns and I know how to it a little bit better.

And I think it's, it's similar when I would train like RAs and stuff for what I had done before. It's, well, what do I do if this, if you don't know, you come talk to you or Andrew or me and then we can go from there.

Yeah.

And even sometimes you all have to call the va. Like there's lots of scenarios where it's more of how do you not commit a social Faux pas.

So that way that person will continue to treat you like a normal person because you didn't know what you don't know and you slipped up and you made it awkward for. For them and other things and how you can make them feel comfortable in the classroom.

We try to be accommodating for all people of all different identities and backgrounds and races, ethnicities. And this is one of the biggest, broadest groups of students that are would be a not high risk.

I would have to check the research of what the actual term would be. But students at risk coming back would be people transitioning out of service and then trying to pursue a degree. How do you not mess that up?

Yeah, I think that's more or less the takeaway. Or here's a lens of reference to understand why the student is portraying or acting or communicating in this way.

Like, we talked about the directness of emails. I mean, that was when we went to NASPA two years ago.

That was one of the keynote things, was talking about how a student was at this individual's institution was being sent to student conduct because their emails were just so like this. And it was. The faculty was taking it very personally, which I can understand. It's email. You don't have emotion behind it sometimes. And it's.

Well, each one of your students is one email away from being in trouble for communicating the way that they were trained to communicate through no fault of their own. So we have to be able to perceive students from all these different backgrounds and understanding and not put her own topical on top of it.

Well, and even with that, one of the participants mentioned getting an email from a colleague as well. And so it's not just. It's not just how to deal with students.

So we had a participant today who shared that they were working with a veteran and received an email that was very direct and to the point. All caps, all caps, no introduction, nothing like that. Just, we need to talk about this.

And the participant went and spoke with their colleague, like, I don't know what I did wrong, but can we talk about this? And their colleague was like, what do you mean?

Like, what's wrong?

I just need to know this. Yeah, and it's because. Yeah, and it's because, you know, we are told be direct.

And as they were telling this story, all I had in the back of my mind was, I bet anything this colleague of theirs was at least an nco, probably a sergeant first class or higher, someone who was very used to just, I need this, I need this now. And also probably not like great at interpersonal communication. So I'm.

They haven't had the practice.

Yes.

Right. So like that's where. Yes, I agree with you. But circling back, the student hasn't had practice in this civilian type world.

And sometimes I have frustrations with students not just over the email aspect, but other things. And then I have to check myself and go, I might be the first person that's showing them the correct way to do this or not necessarily correct.

That's very entitled.

But it's civilian acceptable.

This. Yeah. This is the way to not get fired at your. At your next job.

Yep.

Is I might be the first person to show you this. Someone showed me that and like practice mentored, whatever for me, I guess that's me in this scenario. And I have to be aware of that sometimes.

And I think people assume that they're. The student is in our age range so they just should know how to do these things. And that is not the case at all. I found out. Not at all.

Yeah.

What are some other ways that you think that. When we talked about earlier, I mean we talked about email, we talked about the directness and other things.

What are some other you think from earlier, like aha. Moments for.

Ooh.

I think knowing that we're trying to navigate what the student needs are based around how things are done here at lcc, especially with it being a commuter campus. There was, there was the question about setting up like a female peer support group for veterans. Yes. And I mean I love the idea. I really do.

Like, I'm all about peer support, but I think there is, there's been a misconception about what is.

Is what we're capable of doing when it comes to student buy in and staffing and just like there are so many other resources that are available in the area.

100%. Yes.

And not, not that I wouldn't love to set up peer groups and mentorship programs and all of that, but I think there was the expectation that that was just something that we were going to be able to.

And I should have hit on this earlier. Why reinvent the wheel? Because we have the resources. Like you're even aware of the resources and have connected people to them, which is great.

It's all of us that sit in a room and I should have said this earlier and I didn't. And we go, this is what the students want.

But we're not the students.

Right. Exactly. Do we even ask the students is this what they're looking for? Because we go, this will look good.

And then I can pat myself on the back that I've done the thing for that group of people, and I know it's well intentioned, but oftentimes that's where things will like, be really poor as we go. I think this is a good idea. No one had interest in that.

So the participant that asked that question I've worked with several times and they've reached out to me directly regarding several students who have had some concerns.

Sure. Yes.

And so in the moment, I absolutely knew where this individual was coming from and would put money that this individual and I were thinking about the same students in that moment when that came up.

Correct.

But also knowing what I know from a female veteran perspective and even some of the limited interactions I've had with some of the students that this person and I have had mutual contact with, even if this were something that the student would want to participate in, knowing what their background is, it really needs to be in a more professional setting, in a more almost clinical setting.

Sure.

And again, I would love to be able to do that, but we have.

Other resources for that. We have counseling, we have other things in the area and other things.

That's not the direction I thought you were going, but that's agree with you totally. The. I was gonna say that even if we provide it for one, is that what they want?

And is that like the methodology, I guess, that they would even want it in, because. Do you think that that's what a group of female veterans want, or was that them transposing their own personal.

And again, like, I'm not focusing on this one individual. Like it's a great idea and it probably would have been sent in the room by another person anyway about this.

And the other thing could be said about like service members of color. Right. None of us up there were presenting on that because that's in our background. Is that what they want?

Yeah.

Would they be receptive of that?

Yeah. And I think a lot of the suggestions that we see just in general across the veteran space is more based around.

Well, we've seen evidence that this works in certain settings that are not correct. Settings that work in.

Yes, yes.

And while the VA does it, why can't we do it? Or MSU does it, why can't we do it? MSU does it for. For this particular group.

Correct.

Okay. But that's not a veteran group. They're different cultures, different communities.

And again, I. I'm not knocking any suggestions that we have suggestions so much.

I think that's trying to ground to make sure that what we do in practice and these suggestions are great idea and we need to shape it to fit the community always.

Absolutely.

And the aspect of. Would they be receptive to it?

Yeah.

And for this to make stereotypes again based off of research and other things would be. Do you think the veterans. I'm asking a question and you can say yes or no, whatever.

Knowing how I am and how I interact with our student veterans, if I was less direct, more soft spoken and much more focused on their emotional well being than I am about action items like bullet point emails and all that stuff, do you think I would be received as well as I personally and what they've told me received as well from our veteran students? I don't think I would be.

I don't think so, no. And I think that's where like a lot of the interactions and a lot of the suggestions that we get, they're coming more from a. An academic standpoint.

Agree. Yes.

And I mean that's understandable considering the field that we're in.

Right.

But I think the academic and the almost. I keep going back to clinical.

It seems to be focused on emotional well being only possibly. And I think that it's a multifactored approach.

Approach in the sense of the students aren't going to be receptive of that, especially depending on where they're at in the transition. Like some of our students that I met with at first, I don't. Even though I wrote the notes, I've met with them before.

They ended up being one of our work studies. Previously they were a different person. And I'm like, I even wrote the notes. I was like, they were short and kind of rude.

And then we ended up being really close. They're doing well at msu. I know that I've connected with them since then via email and stuff. But like way different person.

Yeah.

I don't think they would have been like, well, how are you feeling today? They'd be like, you're wasting my time. I don't think it would have went well.

So I think how is it trying to meet this very broad group of people whether or not they're just out, possibly still in. We work with people that are active. I know we've been focusing on veterans to people that have been out for decades. Right.

Those needs are way different all over the place, across the spectrum. Yeah.

And I'm definitely someone who, I mean I have a big focus on mental health. Obviously.

Same.

But at the same point, like I've got students that I meet with where I can Tell like they need.

Correct.

They need someone to have those conversations with them, but they still need it in a very direct manner.

Yeah, yeah. And that approach works sometimes. Right. They need someone to say, this is a bad idea.

Yeah.

And I said that with some students where I was like, I don't know how you're going to go full time, which is comparable to a 40 hour work week. Work 40 hours. You have three kids and you're commuting 40 minutes. Not because you're not capable. You're very capable.

I know you've done harder things than what I'm asking you to do. But are you going to be the parent that you want to be? The spouse that you want to be? Are you going to be the.

The student, the employee?

The student? Are you going to hit the grades? Are you going to feel as good about yourself?

Maybe you could have done that when you were like 19, 20, but did you feel good or were you just like young and full of springy magic and stuff? Right. That we all were, which is a little different.

Well, and one of our participants mentioned that today as well, when they have a student coming to them wanting to drop a class or falling behind or anything like that, they said, well, it's time. You know, it's all about time. You feel that you have to drop this because you don't have the time to complete things.

Sure.

But you know, where, where do you find that time still? Are you able to find that time? Right.

And I think that's a concept that your academics is not about grit, enforcing it because you can't, because it's learning. So it's not just a linear process of more effort equals more knowledge.

It can be through certain applications, but you're going to grind to a halt because you're not going to follow all of it or have the understanding of the concepts because it takes repetitive practice and you're not going to pass every single thing with a four point. You're going to crash out at some point, which is. Okay. That's part of learning and being human overall.

Yeah. So I wanted to discuss about, or discuss some of the sections that we actually talk about during vet n. Sure.

But one of the big focuses I wanted to put on today was the section in particular that you discuss and making those connections with the students, like what you can see, what you see in the classroom, how to handle some, I don't want to say situations, but circumstances that you can come across that faculty and staff may be more prone to seeing.

Sure.

We cover the directness the focus on the email communication, highlighting saying, hey, you can be direct back letting you know, this is not how I expect. Personally, I have like examples in my syllabus of this is my expectations.

Because if you go, here's your rules and expectations, people can grasp that. Usually people that are military members or veterans understand that. Or when we've had. I highlighted this earlier as an example.

If we have people using words that are not appropriate to use on campus.

Yes.

Regardless of what that is and regardless of their viewpoint. Because I've had that discussion before you started in the office with people that said, well, this is my freedom of speec.

I go, you're very valid and I understand where you're coming from. You agreed and signed off on the student roles and responsibilities here. You've already agreed saying that you would not act like this.

So I need you to go review those. I will walk you through them if you'd like.

Of course, I'm not restricting what you can say, but while you're on campus and interacting here as a student and representing the school, because you're a student, especially because, like, are here, you have to follow these.

Yeah.

And if not, and if you want me to file a report, like, I don't want to do that. I'd rather just talk to you about classes and ask you how things are going. Referring back to policy always gets you out of you're being mean to me.

And I go, no, no, no, no, you're not going to pay me. The school does. I need you to follow these rules because that's what the rules are there for.

Yeah.

I think that.

I think in situations with students that are frustrated in group assignments, group projects and stuff, I think understanding that the hierarchy of authority, understanding that students will be possibly asleep in class. Right. And that our military members might go off on them, as you've referenced, being like, hey, don't do that.

And they're not doing it to get people in trouble. They're doing it because camaraderie of the team or the group that they're in. Right. Is like, hey, if you do this, I also get in trouble.

So we're going to hold each other to this higher standard, right?

Yes. Yep.

And that might be a reaction that some people have.

Probably not possibly frustration in group projects, I think is a totally valid thing that you were probably in a group or a group of service members before where some people were just really not committed to the assignment. How did you handle that then? What does that look like? I know, I know. It can be different in the application. Right.

Because you can't just be mean to them and yell at them. Right. But how would you go about doing that? How are you going to practice this skill? Because this is a practice.

The classroom is a practice for the workplace. Because if you act like that in the workplace, you're done.

Yeah.

And that's what I reference it back to. If they're still not getting it of I'm not doing it because this is Dustin's way. I go, this is a civilian world way.

And if you act like that and treat everything personal, you're the one that's being soft right now because you don't like the rules. They don't like it when I say that because I'm not the service member, which totally makes sense.

But those are some different examples that I think I've run across where if you're not sure, reach out, don't freak out. They're going to be fine. And if you don't know how to address it and handle it and other things, reach out to us, reach out to our office.

There's always resources or whatever campus that you're on of what those things look like.

So, yeah, I feel like if we can get more people to join in on our trainings in the future, it would be so immensely beneficial for students, for staff. And of course, always when there are questions, even after the training, we always ask people, just reach out to us.

You told them today if you're confused, because it's totally valid to be confused about a lot of the stuff that we talk about. That's what we're here for too.

Yeah. I don't expect to understand either of us how the ins and outs of financial aid work and other things. And we know enough to be helpful.

But once it crosses that threshold, I reach out. I don't want to do it wrong.

Yeah.

Which like they should reach out to us. That's why we're here. And we can help them figure it out. But that's what we're doing. Overall, absolutely. Cool. Well, thank you so much.

We'll talk to you all next week.

You've been listening to B2B, Boots 2 Books. Thank you for joining us on this journey through the inspiring stories of veterans and military connected students. If you've enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, leave a review and share it with your community. We'd love to hear from you, so connect with us on social media or take a listen to previous episodes at LCCConnect.com or find us on your favorite streaming platform. Remember, every story is a step forward and together we can build a bridge from Boots 2 Books. Until next time, stay strong and keep moving forward.