On this episode, the B2B team are joined in the studio by Roy Fernandez and Dillon Bowling, both veterans and students navigating their academic paths at LCC. They share their unique experiences as veterans, who have not only transitioned back to civilian life, but also transitioned into higher education. As they attest to, many veterans feel unprepared for life after service, highlighting the importance of support systems like the Veteran Center.

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Website: Lansing Community College Center for Veteran and Family Support

Welcome to B2B boots to books, the show where we explore the journeys of veterans and military connected students as they navigate their paths from service to the classroom and beyond. I'm Dustin Abrego.

And I'm Rebecca Allen, your hosts. Each week, we'll dive into powerful stories of resilience, determination, and success.

Whether you're a veteran yourself, a military family member, or simply inspired by the strength of those who serve, you're in the right place.

Let's turn the page and start this incredible journey together.

Hello, and welcome back to another episode of B2B. I'm Dustin Abrego.

And I'm Rebecca Allen.

And this week we are joined by

Roy Fernandez

and

Dillon Bowling, colloquially going by Red.

Okay.

Yes.

So thanks for joining us. What do you all do here? We're all at lcc. So we're students going here, right?

Yes.

Yes.

Okay. So what do you do here, though, at lcc? Because again, people online don't know.

You want to go first or you

want me to go first?

I'll go first.

Okay. Okay.

So we work at the Veteran center for Family and Veterans.

Right. We hit record, and then everyone just always stares at it. Cause you both answer phones all day, and you just nail it every single time.

And I go, what do you do? And you go, bucks.

We help veterans with how to navigate the college pathway. You know, we. We help them with figuring out what benefits they're, you know, allotted to, what benefits they're not.

If, say, their family members need benefits or something like that, if there's any hiccups or anything. We get some calls sometimes that aren't really needed, but we still try to do our best to answer them.

I. I bet Roy and I have probably had our fair share of those.

So your student employees for the college or for both. Right.

It's important to the VA for those listening in.

Dillon and Roy are work study students for us, meaning that they are veterans who are also students here at LCC and are being paid by the VA to work for us.

So it's a VA benefit type aspect of those things. Sorry, I'm not trying to grill you guys. I was like, well, your work study students. But I don't expect you guys to remember.

I was trying to figure out the

formal way to say that I'm employed by Said. Please, someone, please.

I'm triggered. I help veterans that come in.

Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. So, Rory, would you like to start? What, like, what semester is this for you at lcc? What are we doing here at lcc? What's our plan?

Have we been in college before? What does all that stuff look like?

The plan kind of shifted in my life and then I had some circumstances that prompted me to return back to schooling, which is nice because I gave my wife the opportunity for her to get her degree, and now she's kind of really given me the opportunity for me to finish, pursue my degree. The goal is transferring over to Ferris State University.

So I'm kind of just knocking out some classes that transfer over there in the program I want to go into with computer information technology. So I'm just kind of navigating life again as if I was 18, 20 in the, in the simple world. But it's, it's really beneficial.

I feel like for me, even though it's like 10, 12 years later, being in my 30s now.

Okay, cool. Dillon.

This is my third semester here at NCC. I've never been to college. This is my first time being to college, one of the first ones in my family to go to college. So it's pretty wild.

My mom would argue that though. She would say like, oh, I went to a certification school, but it's not

like a four year degree. There's not a tight definition of first generation. If you have. The loose definition is like, if you had direct support.

And support is like, not necessarily financial, but like, this is how you do all these things. Which, like, my dad went to college, didn't finish, but like kind of did that stuff.

But also when I went to college, it was like, oh, you know, it was way different stuff.

The, the plan, you know, just become a teacher, history teacher to be exact. I'm knocking my basics out here that way whenever I transfer to msu because MSU has one of the best education programs in the nation.

I'll just be ready just to focus on my education degree all together and get my degree and start teaching for the new generation of this country.

Okay. And both of you, like you had said before, are veterans. Dillon, do you want to explain like, when? Because we're kind of hit on it.

Like when you exited service and what that looked like, like, how long ago is that before you started here at LCC?

And whenever you come back from a deployment, whether it's overseas or in country, they do this thing called the rat assessment. They noticed that my shoulder was beyond fixable. I torn the labrum completely off the bone. They said, hey, you're gonna have to get out.

So I got out and, you know, I did a couple odd jobs here and there. Coached garbage man for a little bit.

Oh, dang.

Yeah, I worked for waste management. It was actually a really fun job, believe it or not. It's. It's. You meet a lot of cool people, I will say that.

And then I think my final job I did before I moved up here to Michigan was family dollar, just family dollar. It was bounced around from job to job. A lot of things that they don't tell you whenever you leave the service is that if you truly don't have a plan.

Like, I didn't, I didn't have a plan. My plan was to stay in the military.

Like, be a lifer. Yes.

I loved it. It gave me a young man who came from an impoverished background with no structure. Gave me structure that I needed. So when I got out, I had no plan.

I had no idea what I was gonna do. I had a idea of what I wanted to do. But to take an idea and turn it into a plan, you have to bring it into fruition. You have to actually act on it.

And for the longest time, I didn't act on it. I just, you know, I just bounced around from job to job.

And then we finally, me and my family moved up here to Michigan and I was like, you know what? I'm tired of working these dead end jobs. I want to go back to school. I want to get my degree. I like teaching. I want to teach.

So I just, I took the leap. And I think I was more scared of starting it than I was even like getting into it because I wasn't the best at school when I was in school.

Okay.

You know, so.

So is that the reason why I. I firmly starting.

Yeah, to starting. I. Me and school just never really clicked when I was younger. And it doesn't help whenever you come from an area where school isn't a priority.

School, school itself wasn't a priority. Sports are a priority because it keeps you out of the gangs and the drugs. After school programs are priority. The schools that don't get funded a lot.

People don't really care about the academic side of everything because there's no bright lights. There's no way to get out of poverty through academics unless you want to take that. Everyone wants A quick way.

No one wants to take their time, you know, because sometimes you can't take your time route. Sometimes you have to get it right then and there. So it's. That was my big thing. I was scared because I was never really good.

I graduated high school, but I was never really good in school. And by good, I mean I struggled. And I still struggle in college, you know, with studying and everything.

But I realized that I have more resources now than I did back then.

Then we're getting into this immediately. And also, I'll let Rebecca talk, because I've just been yapping the whole time. Sorry.

And I just see the thread and I want to go with it when you talk about. Because you'd use the term, like, afraid to type, start, right? But it was not because of what it is.

It's because of the back and the story of, like, yes, oh, school isn't me as someone not serving when it's like, I was scared to let come in here, and it's like, you're scared to talk to me.

Like, I know I don't have, like, a friendly resting face type deal all the time, but, like, I don't know, you guys were in the service and to do really hard things, and people were like, I was afraid of the school. And I was like, bro, what? Like, I feel like that's.

But I know that it's not just that on the face value, it's all this other stuff is a lived experience. All those other things with it, with the service.

I mean, at that point, everything you do, it's chopped up to live or die. I think we can all attest to that. Every service member in here, from basic training to AIT or what is it, C school for y' all or something.

Whenever you learn your job. The Marines, man, I'm drawing a blank. It was just the school.

I mean, after mct, after like the combat training, you just got sent to whatever your job school was. I don't remember exactly. What if there was a specific termination for it?

Well, in the army, it's AIT where you learn anything like that. You. You gotta learn to do it. If you don't learn to do it, you're gonna get kicked out. There's no if hands or buts and some sort.

Like, there's no fail safe. And I. I think, honestly, there's a level of. In that type of pressure, in that type of environment, you kind of learn how to thrive.

And the people that can't learn how to thrive, they.

They fall out.

And it's not against them. It's not for everyone. But I feel like the, the people that are made for.

Because people forget they're always like, oh, just the basic veterans, just the basic military members. Not the, not the top tier lead or anything.

We're not talking special Forces even just a normal military member has to go through extensive training, has to do this to make it to just go to a normal unit. So again, it's just a pressure. There's more. You know, it's not like school where you have resources. So you have to either you do it or you don't.

There's no choice.

There is no choice. You don't get no choice. So. And I feel like there's. There's some rewarding, you know, hey, if I don't do this, then I don't know.

You find out who you are. I know a lot of people that have gotten their bachelors and still don't know who they are, you know.

Yep. Yeah, partially that. Yeah. Agree.

Schoolhouse, by the way, the Marines kept it real simple.

Schoolhouse.

I was trying to think, I was like, was there something was an acronym for the school? Was it really that special? No, it was just the school house.

Just schoolhouse.

Just had to keep it nice and simple.

Just basic.

Come on.

Some Marines

does that track with what you felt experienced thought Roy of like the choices, the in and out type deal of things. Like I don't know when I've heard like Dillon talk about this or any of you talk about this.

It's cause I get and only interact with you all once you're out right after you've had this experience. And it's always interesting to me because you didn't have a choice.

And I thought that that would like ingrain in people, which is a stereotype in my head that I've had to break for sure of. Like, well, that's just how they are now. But then they get out and they're like, nope. All that's gone by. That was never my thing. I gotta.

Nope.

See you later. Does any of that track for you or.

Yeah, I mean I definitely thank. Everyone has their own experiences and I think all their experiences that they have lead to how they really interact while they're in.

While they're out. We all have different reasons why we enlisted. Some people family traditions.

Some people are in neighborhoods and areas that are a lot less fortunate and are trying to do better for themselves. So they find this opportunity.

Recruiters come out and kind of tell the kids, hey, this is a way to be able to get out where you're at, you can see the world. You can learn a job, you can learn a trade, you can do so much.

And a lot of people end up going into, into the military with that mentality of, I'm going to do better for myself. Sometimes it goes their way, sometimes it doesn't. It's just a matter of like, again, your experiences.

I know a lot of people that were in my schoolhouse when I went in through boot camp that are still in. I know some that are lieutenants, There are officers that went in enlisted. I know some people that are now are like gunnery sergeants.

So it's like an E7. I was one and done. I did four years and I was out. Once a Marine, always a Marine, so why reenlist? That was my mentality on it.

Right.

Initially when I first went in, I was like, oh, if I can do 20 years, I can retire. I'll be 38 when I get out. I was 17 years old. I spent my 18th birthday in the hotel before I went out to Maps.

So I was as young as I could without getting my parents to sign, but I didn't really know what I was doing. Also, I was a first generation immigrant. I was born in Cuba. I came to the United States when I was three and a half. And I was raised by my parents.

And while my parents did get an education in Cuba, they didn't know the, the way that the United States really operated in public schooling and higher education. It was just, this is a better

place in Cuba, so there's no Castro here, right?

Yeah, exactly. So the higher education, I didn't know what I was doing. I had no idea.

So the Marines came to the school and I was like, there's no way I'm doing the Marines. All I know Marines is shooting, gunning, infantry, front lines. And I told them, with someone like me, with two last names, I'm the first one out.

Like, there's no way I'm doing that.

But we, you know, I gave him the opportunity to have a discussion with me and, you know, we sat down and we discussed different job titles and different job roles and different things that the Marines do. And it opened my eyes of, like, the opportunity that this could give me, and I took it.

You know, I got out after the four years, obviously, but I learned a lot.

I feel like one of the things that I took away from it was being a man, learning how to, you know, have honor, have integrity, doing the right thing, having your friends back. One of the things I always talk about Is blood isn't always family. You know, I've got some of the closest friends was in the marines.

I had their groomsman of mine when I got married. I've got a wedding this September in Boston for one of my guys. I'm his best man.

Nice.

So, I mean, I think I've been to four weddings now from all of my guys that were.

So if you want to get married, be a marine is what I'm hearing

out of all this. Okay. I just came back from a wedding. A buddy of mine just got married and I was one of his groomsmen. So yeah, it like that. That bond never stops.

I definitely understand that.

The term I always say is I miss the clowns, not the circus.

Gotcha.

Rebecca, you're being awfully quiet.

Dustin likes to. Yeah, it's fine.

I enjoy listening to you guys talk. That's why I wanted to bring you on. So, Roy, one thing that I did want to ask about.

So you mentioned that you came to LCC after you got out and then you took a break from school. I know we've discussed a few times. You had. You had a real big boy job before you came back to school. What was that like?

Like coming from being in service and then going to school and then going into real world civilian jobs and then transitioning back into school. How was that?

It was very interesting for me. I worked in the financial institution world and I learned a lot.

Honestly, it's probably one of the most beneficial things I could have done for myself personally and financially because I learned how to. The entire credit system works, how financial institutions can help you or hurt you, depending on how you handle your finances.

And I was able to be very, very impactful in other people's lives, giving them an opportunity, having great conversations to some degree. I was an educator. A lot of people in this country, whether they were born here, speak English, speak another language.

They don't know how it honestly operates.

I still don't know how give me a class.

My credit is horrible.

I was able to instruct people and teach them and being in the industry for as long as I was, you were able to kind of see them start from scratch or start from like, this is a bad place to be in financially and then make a turnaround or be on the right path and get them started. And then seeing them two, three, four years down the line and seeing how well they've. They've come along, I think was great.

It was great for me as a person. You know, it's like. No, they listened and look at them now. And now they're flourishing. It was an awesome feeling. So I learned a lot. It was great.

You know, my wife still works in that industry, so I'm still kind of in tune with a lot of things that are happening, but it wasn't my passion. While it was very beneficial, it wasn't what I wanted to always be known for and do.

So it was set of circumstances that happened for me that prompted me to come back to school. And honestly, at the time, I thought it was like, it's the worst thing that could have happened to me. I was scared. I was awful. I was in tears.

Not in front of my wife, but I cried in front of the Ingham county director, I believe, for Veteran Services. And, you know, my wife was crying for what. What had transpired. But I stayed strong in front of her because I couldn't. Couldn't see her.

Yeah, I couldn't have her see me like that, so. But then I just bawled like a. Like a baby.

You almost feel defeated whenever because you feel like you failed. You're having to go back I. The same situation. I understand. I really do. You almost.

You've done so much, you've gotten so far, and then you're like, really? I'm back at square one. That's what it feels like. I understand that.

I felt like it was, you know, I was taking so many steps forward, and then it all got ripped down and I was like three steps back from where I first started when I started getting into the real world, jobs in the civilian sector. But now, after giving it some time, getting back into schooling, getting back into the flow of things, because it really is. You had to.

You have to get the mentality right. You have to get everything right. You have to understand your resources available to you.

Speaking with the benefits advisor, Rebecca Dustin, you need all the resources you can get to put this plan together, because we're not an expert in this field in schooling, and you shouldn't have to be. Right. And that's what you guys are there for, to really kind of guide us. And it has grounded me, I felt like.

And it has helped me tremendously emotionally, mentally, to be able to be back into schooling, into what I want to do, into the degree I want to pursue, and then also the work study program that allows me to kind of really interact with veterans a lot more and interact with you guys. It's been honestly a blessing. Even though what happened to me, I felt was awful at the time.

I would like to piggyback off of what you said and what Dustin said, not being an expert and we don't have to be. Well, what you might not know and what a lot of civilians might not know is whenever you get out of the military, you go through classes.

They say that, okay, you take this class, you'll be ready for the civilian world. You take this class.

And I don't want to throw it out there like that, but I feel like that's a area that the military fails a lot of veterans because the classes. I don't, I can't speak for Rebecca or Roy, but I know whenever I was going through those classes, they were half assed. The people did not care.

The, the civilians there were there to, you know, make their money more respect to them, but they were there to make their money. You know, they, they read from a script, like literally my financial one read from a script. This is how you have a bank account.

Like that's literally how I went. And I feel like the military in a whole fails the out process for veterans and it.

And I feel like, you know, at that point it's like, hey, you served us and everything, but you're no longer with us. We're not going to put our full resources into you. You're leaving. And that's why there's like so much on retention as well.

Yeah, they would rather retain you than be like, okay, we're going to help you get out.

I remember before I got injured, I had re upped and they were so gung ho on getting me to sign that contract that they even gave me the base I wanted to go to. I wanted to go to Fort Hood. They were like, you're signed. Which I look back on. I was like, for Hood?

Wrong.

Well, they were like signed. You know, never once were they were like, well, if you don't want to re up, we have great resources.

And it, I feel like that's a, that's somewhere where the military fails U.S. veterans.

I think the problem with that too is. Yeah, so there's the TAP program when you're getting out. I don't know if it's the same thing for Marines.

I know that active duty though, it's across the board. You're supposed to have those classes with the Guard. That doesn't happen. You're supposed to go through those class.

Yeah, you're supposed to go through those classes. But it's hit or miss if they're even being offered.

They don't force you. I had to go. I was not allowed to leave the base until I had My everything felt really.

When I got out, it was all right, see you.

That's absolutely wild.

Yep. I had. I had people that didn't even know that I was getting out. Like, we had a formation.

We had our final formation, and I remember standing at the back of that formation going, okay, this is it. Like, this is seven years of my life. And people are just. They're walking out the door. I'm never gonna see some of these people again.

There were no classes. There was no, like, checking out anything like that. My sergeant was like, hey, make sure that your gear is turned in.

Or at least like, you know, it's in the locker over in the armory.

Like, they really say, oh, well, goodbye.

Yeah, drop off. Drop off your keys with the. With the supply sergeant. Make sure that the supply sergeant can get into your locker, all your gear, like, so.

Now, like, you do have to go through cif. You got to turn on your gear now. But, like, when I. When I got out, it wasn't like that.

It was, make sure that supply sergeant knew where your gear was.

Slowly, it's getting better.

I guess I. I guess.

But when I was in Japan, I just remember I had to get signature from every department head.

Yeah.

From every single person in the squadron regarding every single thing.

And.

And I remember going in to my sergeant major's office, and he's just hounding me on, like, why I'm getting out. I just. It's not for me. I just. I just want to be a civilian. I want to go back to the civilian life and pursue and use my benefits job, go to school.

And I remember him telling me, just getting so upset, just so mad and telling you that all you're going to ever be is a McDonald's employee. And I was like, beats being here.

Yep.

Like, if that's your attitude, then I don't even want to. Like, I don't want to be in your unit. Like, I had somewhat the similar thing with my battalion commander. The same thing.

He got mad at all of us that were getting out. And mind you, I was getting out due to medical reasons.

Right.

And he would.

It's so petty. I'm sorry, Combo. For you all, it was just like, why are you leaving our group?

Yeah, that's exactly what it is.

Mean girls.

Mean girls, yes. Rolling in a certain age demographic. You can't tell for the movie reference.

It is very much a mean girl's ideology of it. Like, oh, my God, I can't believe that it. It's really. That it's.

But you have this Grown man or grown woman looking at you and be like, you're really go, sir, I tore my shoulder. What do you want from me? Like, but the military fails, veterans and military members alike in lots of aspects.

One big one is getting out, and I think another one that honestly, the VA and the military in general fail is just the initial outward processing. Like, right after you get out. I remember when I got out and I left the base, I was driving the U haul.

My little brother was in the U haul with me and he was like, he looked at me, he's like, what are you going to do? And we're driving from. Because I was stationed in Louisiana and I'm driving back to Texas and it was quiet for a while.

We were just listening to a podcast. And he turns down the radio and he looks at me, he's like, so what are you going to do? And I was like, I don't know.

My past four years of my life, I have been told where to go. I have been told when to wake up. I've been told time. I have been told all of this, and now I just have freedom.

It's like if you were to take an animal in a zoo, they have been on a schedule their entire lives. They have known nothing but that zoo. And then one day you take that animal and you throw them back into their original habitat.

That animal, nine times out of 10, is going to die.

And it is said, I wouldn't say nine times out of 10 for the veteran community, but I would say more than 7 out of 10, they get back out into the civilian world and they just can't readjust. And by readjust, I'm not saying just become a regular back to being who you are for the longest time.

And every military and veteran person can attest to this. Whenever you're in the military, whether you're out, you can always remember your time in. You were the army, that was your personality.

You were the Marines, that was your. Am I wrong? You like, like you, you were that service. And whenever you get out, you genuinely feel lost. I did not know.

And I think that scared me more than not having a job or not having money. That scared me more.

Follow up on this. For those of us listening in, please stick around for part two. We're going to keep talking about this, so stick around and we'll be right back.

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Until next time, stay strong and keep moving forward. Sam.