What is the secret to delicious hot sauce? Hot peppers or chilies? How many species of Capsicum are cultivated for their spicy fruits? What qualities are worth seeking when purchasing a grow light? These questions answered and so much more as the ChilliChump shares the spicy details about all things Capsicum!

Opening tune: Solanaceae by Carmen Porter (https://carmenporter.com)

Shaun (ChilliChump) connections:

main page: https://chillichump.com/

seed shop: https://chillichumpseeds.com/

awesome software: https://seedsio.com/

videos: https://www.youtube.com/chillichump

Capsicum annuum.

2

Welcome to Song and Plants.

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My name is Carmen Porter.

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In this episode, I was joined

by the Chilli Chump, to

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discuss all things Capsicum.

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His website offers a plethora of chili

resources to satisfy the needs and

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curiosities of heat seeking gardeners.

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He offers a spicy cookbook, a seed

store, growing videos, detailed articles,

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and amazing software for tracking,

documenting, and organizing plantings.

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I hope you enjoy our conversation.

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So welcome to Song and Plants.

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Would you mind introducing yourself?

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Shaun ChilliChump: Hi, my name is Shaun,

also known as ChilliChump online, and

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I've been growing chilies for a couple

decades now, and I decided to start a

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YouTube channel around about 2016, where

I share my adventures in chili growing,

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making hot sauce, and also a bit of

the techie stuff that I like to do as

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well around automation of the growing.

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But yeah, that's me.

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Carmen: So you say

automation of the growing.

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What's your setup?

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Shaun ChilliChump: Some

of it's quite complex.

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When I talk about automation, obviously,

when I first started doing YouTube,

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I wasn't doing it full time and I

had other jobs to be dealing with and

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the only way I could do that is by

automating some aspect of the growing, in

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particular, the watering side of things.

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When the season gets fully underway,

you obviously have quite a few plants,

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I have at the moment about five, six

hundred plants and having to water

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them manually, that's a good few hours

each, well, every second day or so

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during the height of the growing season.

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So being able to automate

that was paramount.

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And I started building out some basic

systems doing that when I first

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started growing in bigger numbers.

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But, it's got a bit more

complex than that recently.

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Built out some really interesting,

watering systems, but also controlling

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my fans, doing some things like

temperature monitoring, humidity

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monitoring, optimizing when things

are watered based on some machine

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learning algorithms that I built.

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And I built out a bit of software

as well that allows other

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people to do similar things.

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It got a lot bigger than

what I originally intended.

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Originally it was just to help me out,

to allow me to actually still live

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my life and not be watering 24 /7 but

it's turned into a bit more than that.

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And yeah, it's good fun.

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I'm quite a techie at heart.

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So that's, that's kind of my background

before getting into gardening, but it

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allows me to mix the two loves of my life.

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Carmen: And where are you located?

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Shaun ChilliChump: I'm in the UK.

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We moved about three,

about three years ago.

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We moved a bit further

north than we used to be.

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We used to be just outside of London.

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The reason I mention this is because

if you are living just outside London,

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the last frost dates are a little bit

earlier than when you go further north.

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So if you're going up more towards

Scotland, which is kind of, you

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know, the direction I'm heading.

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So I'm in the middle of the

country, what's called the Midlands.

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Yeah, three years ago, we did that

move because I wanted more space, but

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it does mean that we have a bit of a

later Last frost date and as you know

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that obviously impacts you're growing.

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So I think we have about three weeks

Later, which is quite weird because

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the UK is not a big place but moving

just, just as far north as I am now,

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it changes the whole game, and I had to

learn things pretty much all over again.

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Optimizing my strategies with growing

and that sort of thing, because obviously

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chilies are not native to the UK or

anywhere in our sort of hemisphere.

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But, yeah, it was a shift, but

it's the best move we made because

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we've got a nice big old spot here,

about an acre of land, and I get

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to grow loads and loads of chilies.

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Carmen: Nice.

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Do you have to provide light?

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Shaun ChilliChump: Only in

the beginning of the year.

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So at the moment, all

my plants are started.

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I started the majority of my longer season

plants and most of my superhots, the

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chinense varieties, and I'm sure we'll get

into the different species a bit later.

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But the longer season plants, the ones

that take about 120 to 160 days, I start

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those very early in the year, around

about January, just after the 1st of Jan.

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And to do that, because again, we

are in the middle of winter at that

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point, there's not enough light,

but there's also not enough heat,

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so I'm having to use a heated grow

space that I call my germinator.

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It's just a shed that I've converted with

some lighting and, some heating in there.

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And that's the only way you can

really start if you want to get

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a good, good start to the season,

because the last frost dates here

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are around about the end of April.

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I do have greenhouses, which means

I can go out a little bit before

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those last frost dates, but that

still means it's early April

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that I'm taking plants outside.

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And if I just start my plants early April,

there's no way I'd get the harvests I get.

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So, Starting a few months before, getting

them to a point that they are starting

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to mature and they're ready to go into

the final pots around about end of April.

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That's essential and that means

obviously growing them under grow

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lights in the beginning of the year.

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But once they're outside in the

greenhouses, after April time until

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October, November even, there's no

need for any supplemental lights.

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So we just use the sunlight.

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Carmen: So when you're starting the

seeds are there any recommendations

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that you'd have for getting good

germination other than having good seed?

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Shaun ChilliChump: Good

seed is the first way to go.

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Too many times when I'm responding,

I get a lot of people asking me

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questions, sending me emails and

messages and asking, you know, I'm

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battling to get my seeds to germinate.

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Most of the time it's because they

are using bad quality stock, so seed

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that haven't been dried properly,

or maybe seed that's older than what

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the seed vendors are saying they are.

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But beyond that some varieties can be

a bit more challenging than others.

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So, typically, if you're using something

like Jalapeno or Cayenne, you know,

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some of the Capsicum annuum varieties,

those are a lot easier to germinate.

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Generally, you'll get about 5

or 6 days for them to germinate,

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and they're not too challenging.

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Some of the hotter varieties,

some of the longer season ones,

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like the Capsicum chinense they

can take you know, 12, 14 days.

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I wouldn't really go too far beyond

that sometimes can take longer and

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some of the very rare ones can take

Up to a month, month and a half.

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It's quite difficult.

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But some tips to actually get them

to germinate just get some good seed

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stock and typically the same way that

we would germinate most seed varieties.

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Keep them moist.

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Keep them humid.

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So I use a, a dome

obviously on a propagator.

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Keep that covered.

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And then very important is the heat level.

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You need to be germinating at

around about 28 degrees Celsius.

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That's what I germinate at.

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I think that's 82 Fahrenheit.

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But a minimum there is

probably 20 degrees Celsius.

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You're not going to get very good

germination if you don't sit at

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at least 20 degrees Celsius, which

is again around 68 Fahrenheit.

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But the 20 degrees Celsius, those

are going to help with those easier

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varieties like the jalapeno, the

cayenne, even peri peri or bird's

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eye Thai chilies, that sort of thing.

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The other little trick that I use, I

actually made a video about this fairly

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recently because again beginning of the

season I'm always reminding people some

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tips and tricks on getting some good

germination rates is to soak your seeds.

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So I Soak them in a tea.

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So it'll be a just normal English black

breakfast tea or chamomile tea as well.

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And the reason you're doing that is

it has tannins within the tea and the

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tannins is kind of an acid type of thing.

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And it helps to scarify the seeds.

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And what that means is scarifying, it's

similar to what happens when a bird eats

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seeds, it goes through the digestive

system and it'll break down the shell.

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So it'll soften the shell somewhat.

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And it allows the seeds

to germinate a lot easier.

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By using black tea or chamomile

tea, it has a similar sort of effect

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and it softens the shells And it

allows those seeds to come through.

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It helps from two ways Number one is going

to help you germinate a lot quicker and

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have better success with germination But

the other one is it avoids helmet head.

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That's probably most important.

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I don't know if you've grown chilies

before but One of the problems you

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have sometimes is the seed will

germinate But the shell of the seed

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will stick on the top of the cotyledons,

the two little leaves that start

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out, and the shell won't come off.

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And if it stays on there too long,

then the plant is going to die.

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Most of the time, the seed will end up

being able to get the little cotyledons

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out, and the shell will pop off.

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But when that doesn't happen,

you're having to do that manually,

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and oftentimes, if you are

trying to cut the top off, you're

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going to end up damaging it.

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But if you do soak it in that

tea , then it definitely helps out

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and it'll stop that from happening.

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It'll allow that seed shell

to pop off a lot easier.

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Carmen: That's fantastic, thank you.

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I actually I'd never heard it called

helmet head but that's perfect

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Shaun ChilliChump: it's just what

I call, I don't know, somebody,

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other people might call it something

different, but I call it helmet head.

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Carmen: It's great

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Shaun ChilliChump: it's very annoying,

especially when it's a seed that you

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really want to germinate and then you've

got that and it's like, okay, now what?

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Now I have to do some surgery

on the thing to get it off.

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Carmen: So one little thing that I

have definitely heard people talk

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about is if they don't have a proper

Lighting, like really good lighting.

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They'll end up with slightly

leggy plants when you start early.

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Is there anything that you'd recommend

for getting the plants ready to put out?

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Shaun ChilliChump: The good

news is you don't need to

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spend a lot of money on this.

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Yes, there are tons of

grow lights out there.

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Sorry about that.

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It's my puppy.

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Making lots of noise.

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Um, So we have, we have so many,

options today with led grow lights.

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The problem is people rush out and they go

buy these expensive led grow lights, which

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are fantastic, however, most of the time

they're way too strong for your plants.

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So the bypass spectra, the Mars

hydro, the Spider Farmer, those are

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some of the brands that I use quite

frequently and they make some fantastic

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lighting, but you're having to turn

those lights way down or take them

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very far away from the canopy of your

plants or you're just going to burn

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the leaves because they are so strong.

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So what you can do instead of spending

the money on these LED grow lights,

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you can use a standard light bulb, a

compact fluorescent light bulb, I don't

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know if you can really get them too much

these days, but the old helix sort of

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shaped light bulbs, they work fantastic.

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Get one that's in the daylight

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know, down to maybe 5000 Kelvin.

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Not any warmer than that.

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When the light is too warm, you get too

much of the red light coming through.

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That's not what you're looking for.

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You want the blue spectrum, which

is the daylight, the white light.

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But you can use those bulbs

and they work perfectly fine.

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In the beginning when I first started

growing, I would use T5 lighting.

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So the old shop lights,

the round, long, bulbs.

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They work fantastically but again,

those get a little bit more difficult

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to get hold of too much these days

and people tend to just go with LEDs.

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Now the benefits of these compact

fluorescents and those t5 fluorescent

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bulbs is you can't overdo it.

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You can't damage your seedlings, you

can have those lights directly on top of

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the canopy of your plants, so on the

leaves themselves, like almost touching,

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and they won't cause any problems

because they're not very hot and also

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they're not putting out too much light.

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The problem is if you're going beyond

that first month of growth where your

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plant now starts to really develop

and you've got a far more mature

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plant, they need a lot more light.

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So at that point that's when the LED

lights really come into their own.

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But the problem is people buy one

light and it's going to fix all their

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problems and they use that from the

very beginning, not realizing hey

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it doesn't look so bright to me so

I'll just turn it up because they're

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plants, obviously they need a lot of

light and they end up giving it way too

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much light and it stresses the plant.

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So even if you don't see any

physical damage you might not see

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the crispy edges of the leaves which

sometimes happens, what will happen

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is your plants just won't grow.

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They'll be stressed and they'll Just

decide to not put out any more growth

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on the roots or on the leaves and you

won't understand why that's happening.

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So Be careful of too much light

as much as yes, you do need a lot

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of light and chili plants love

light, too much is still a problem.

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So I did some tests, there's a video,

if you really want to get into some nerdy

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detail about it, I did a video on this,

and there's an article on my website as

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well, where I'm talking in depth about the

different types of lights, and also going

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into details on the amount of lumens that

are being produced, or lux, that's, sort

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of how we measure light for humans eyes.

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We measure it in lux, so when you

buy a light bulb, it tells you, hey,

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this is a 300 lux or 300 lumen bulb.

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I did some tests on quite a few different

bulbs, and I also tested it with the type

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of light reading that you'd get for what

plants actually see in terms of the light.

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It can get quite complex.

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There's a phrase called

lumens are for humans, right?

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So lumens are what, we know when

we see a light, light bulb that

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I have above my head right now.

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That looks bright to me because

those bulbs are manufactured

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to be bright for human eyes.

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But plants, they have a

bit of a broader spectrum.

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So human's eyes can see yellow very well.

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So, there's a big focus on the yellow and

even the green part of the light spectrum.

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Whereas, plants don't really get

affected too much by the green

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part of the light spectrum.

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They get very much affected by the

blue and the red, which is on the

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two opposite ends of the spectrum.

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If you're looking at a light spectrum,

the yellow is in the middle, and

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then on the two sides, blue towards

the left, red towards the right.

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So, to measure that,

you're measuring PAR.

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PAR is basically what you'd be measuring

the light spectrum on for plants

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themselves, because it takes into account

the blue and the red part of the spectrum.

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If you're looking at it, how

it's measuring it, it'll be more

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of a square box rather than a

curve, which is what we see.

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That article does go into a lot more

detail about that, but it also helps you

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because PAR-meters are very expensive.

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The one I had is like 700

pounds or 700 US dollars.

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Whereas a normal lux meter

probably costs about 20 dollars.

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So I measured these lights and compared

what they would be on the PAR spectrum

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versus what they'd be on the lux spectrum.

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So if you do want to measure how much

light your plant needs, I've got a

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graph that shows you exactly how much

it needs at each stage of growth.

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So, nice complex answer to a

very simple question, but, yeah.

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Carmen: Well, just to interject,

what is your website so that

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people can go check that out?

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Shaun ChilliChump: Chilichump.

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com, C H I L L I C H U M P.

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com.

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Carmen: And as always, I'll put the

links in the show notes as well.

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So when they've got these beautiful

little seedlings, but they need to

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get more light and then they need

to get them ready to go outside.

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What would you suggest they do?

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Shaun ChilliChump: So again, it really

depends on what you're going to be doing.

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So are you taking them outside or

are you taking them to a greenhouse?

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It really depends on where you're living.

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Even in the UK, I've done lots of

experiments on this, on planting

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chili plants directly in the ground.

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So not having any cover

and it's going to work.

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You'll be okay.

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You'll probably get a few chilies, but

you're not going to get the type of

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harvest that you'll see on my YouTube

channel, because, there's two reasons.

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Number one is, when they're outside

in the elements, chili plants,

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they do not like to have wet roots.

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They like to be able to

breathe through those roots.

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So if they're constantly wet, which is

obviously in the UK, we get a lot of rain.

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When it's raining, and let's say it rains

for an entire week, that plant has now

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spent a week with its roots sitting in

water and it's not going to enjoy that.

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By having it in the greenhouse or

polytunnel you're able to control

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just how much water is getting to

those roots and you can dry them out

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in between watering cycles And that's

going to result in a far better plant.

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The other thing is the plants

like to have warm roots.

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So if you're growing, especially in the

early part of the season, April, May,

289

and you plant directly in the ground,

it might survive, but it's going to be

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sitting in the ground where above ground

you may be at 20C, but below ground

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it's sitting there at about 10 or 12C.

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And that's just going to completely

stunt the growth of the plant.

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So If you are going to be growing in a

greenhouse and I can give some advice

294

there, if you get to a point where you've

got some lovely seedlings and now you've

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had them in a nice cozy environment like I

do in my grow shed and it's in a perfectly

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warm environment, the temperatures never

dip too much and it's getting artificial

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light so it's not getting full sunlight

yet, when you take it outside then

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you're going to have to consider that the

sunlight it's putting out way more light

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than any grow light you can possibly buy.

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So you have to be careful on just

how much light you're exposing it to.

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Now there's two ways again to do that.

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The one way is the way I do

it, which is the lazy way.

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You time it right so that you don't

need to harden off your plants,

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you don't need to protect your

plants when you take them outside.

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So when I put my plants outside in

early april, I know the sun is still

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coming in very low in the horizon.

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It's not hitting me directly and those

plants aren't getting direct Full

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sunshine for a long part of the day.

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So they're able to adjust a lot easier

without me having to protect them.

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The second way if you're not going

to be lazy about it, or you can't get

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them out that early in the season,

then you do need to protect them.

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So you need to use some sort of

sheet where you're protecting it,

313

putting in a little bit of shade.

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So it's still getting some

light, but for most of the day

315

you're still shading it somewhat.

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And that'll help the plants to adjust.

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You'll need to gradually adjust how

much sunlight it's getting per day.

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It'll take about two weeks

to do it effectively.

319

That's why I said I prefer the lazy way,

because when you have so many plants,

320

I do not want to be moving them in and

out of the sunshine all day, and I don't

321

want to be shading them, shade cloth and

things like that, but that's essentially

322

what you'll need to do if you are putting

them out into some strong sunshine.

323

So if you do live in a place like Spain,

or you're lucky, you know, in Africa,

324

yes, you need to protect your plants.

325

You're going to definitely need some shade

cloth, but you're probably going to use

326

shade cloth most of the year, because the

sunshine is just way too harsh for them.

327

Carmen: You mentioned a

couple of different species.

328

Would you mind expanding upon what are the

different species that we grow as chilies?

329

Or hot peppers?

330

Shaun ChilliChump: Sorry, I call

them chilies, but I actually

331

did a video on that as well.

332

I got a few Americans upset with me

because I said that peppers aren't

333

actually peppers, they're chilies.

334

So peppers, People call them

peppers because there was a bit

335

of a confusion way back when.

336

When Peppercorns were very expensive

and they found these spicy plants that,

337

hey, well, this is kind of like pepper.

338

And they brought them back to, I

think it was Italy, and they said,

339

hey, well, this is pepper, right?

340

Meanwhile, it was actually chilies, and

that's kind of why they call them peppers.

341

But anyway, I digress.

342

So species, there are five main

species that, well, five of the most

343

common species that we grow, and

unless you are like me and get into

344

the wilder side of chilies, then

that's probably all you've ever seen.

345

Most people that have never grown chilies

before have probably only ever seen

346

Three types of chilies, three species.

347

The most common is Capsicum

annuum, so A N N U U M.

348

And those are your jalapenos, your

cayenne, quite a few other varieties.

349

Most of your sweet peppers, so if you're

talking about a bell pepper, those are

350

going to be Capsicum annum as well.

351

Then the second most common

is Capsicum frutescens.

352

And there's a little bit of debate

about this, whether frutescens and

353

annuum are actually the same species.

354

But frutescens typically are your

bird's eye, your peri peri, so

355

your African bird's eye, Thai

chilies, things like that.

356

I would describe a frutescens as

being a plant where the fruits are

357

pointing upwards, they point skywards.

358

Whereas annuum, they typically

point downwards, right, or sideways.

359

But there is, yeah, there's

some confusion there.

360

People will confuse the

two, and that's fine.

361

It's not a problem.

362

Then the other one that people

are going to be familiar with

363

are the hots, the real hot ones.

364

And those are typically the

Capsicum chinense varieties.

365

Not Chinese, chinense.

366

These are things like habanero, scotch

bonnets, and then some of the really super

367

hot ones, Carolina Reapers, and then

some of the more interesting ones that

368

probably the layman hasn't really heard

of, like the 7 Pot Primo, the Primatale,

369

the Chocolate Jigsaw, you know, some of

the real exotic stuff that is killer heat.

370

Those are all gonna be from the

chinense family of chilis, or species.

371

And then the other two common ones,

and these are the top five common, you

372

can imagine there's at least 35 or

so species that I could go through,

373

but these are the most common.

374

The next most common I would say

is, and it's one of my favorites,

375

is the Capsicum pubescens.

376

Which is a beautiful chili.

377

What makes this fairly unique

is the seeds are black.

378

So all chili seeds that you

get, they're white seeds, right?

379

Similar to tomato seeds, but the Capsicum

pubescens, they have black, black seeds.

380

And I just love that.

381

They look so cool.

382

The other way that you can tell a Capsicum

pubescens besides the seeds is the fact

383

that the leaves and the stems are all

furry, hence the name Capsicum pubescens,

384

but they're all like a furry type texture.

385

But they yeah, they're

one of my favorites.

386

They have a good amount of heat, they're

very thick fleshed most of the time.

387

Things like the Ricotta Manzano is

one of the varieties that are quite

388

common in the Capsicum pubescens.

389

But this year I'm growing about

six different Capsicum pubescens.

390

I'm trying to collect up

more and more varieties.

391

There's, there's not a lot that I've

been able to get hold of, but some

392

of the more common ones are like the

Ricotta Manzano, Ricotta Marlene

393

is another very interesting one.

394

And I've got a few others growing.

395

They're very thick fleshed, very,

very juicy and fruity, but they do

396

have a bit of a kick to them as well.

397

Then you've got the last one in the most

common, which is the Capsicum baccatum.

398

So these are quite

popular in South America.

399

They call them the Aji varieties.

400

One of the very common ones or very

popular ones over the last maybe

401

five years is the Aji Lemon Drop.

402

Which is yellow.

403

It's got a good bit of spice, and it's

got a almost a citrusy sort of flavor.

404

Those are quite common

because they look wonderful.

405

But it's not one of my favorites

really, but they look great.

406

I mean, there's a ton of other Aji

varieties and, well, Capsicum baccatum

407

varieties out there, tons and tons.

408

They've got quite a unique flavor profile.

409

Not my favorite flavor to work with,

because obviously I make hot sauces.

410

I tend to work more with the annuum,

frutescens and chinense varieties.

411

Just I prefer those flavors

when we're making a hot sauce.

412

But baccatum still, there's so many

beautiful plants in that species.

413

One of the nice things with that

is, also, the flowers are purple.

414

So, this is what attracted me

to chilies in the first place.

415

I love growing things anyway, but

chilies, obviously they taste great,

416

they look awesome, there's so many,

there's tens of thousands of varieties

417

of chilies, but each of the flowers

they look different, each of the

418

species they just look amazing.

419

The Capsicum pubescens also has

purple flowers, it's stunning.

420

There's just so much so much variety.

421

You'll never run out of

new varieties to grow.

422

So it is a great hobby

if you haven't done it.

423

One of the first wild types, because

there's quite a few different wild

424

types out there, one of the first

ones that I really wanted to grow,

425

and I've never had success with

it, is the Capsicum galapagoense.

426

And this is something that's

native to the Galapagos Islands.

427

And it's a stunning little chili, a

tiny little fruit, but it's really

428

difficult to get that thing to germinate.

429

That will typically take about

a month at least to germinate.

430

And the problem is if you have

something sitting in a humid

431

environment for that long, the chances

are you're probably going to make it

432

rot before it actually germinates.

433

So it's a bit of a balancing act.

434

But that's, that's one

of the interesting ones.

435

There's so many Plenty, plenty

others that you can get into.

436

The chacoense, eximium,

flexuosum, some beautiful ones.

437

And most of them are more

on the wild varieties.

438

And there's quite a community, a sub

community within the Chile community

439

that love to grow these wilder varieties.

440

And it fascinates me.

441

There's so much choice.

442

Carmen: How do the wild varieties

differ in terms of the fruit?

443

Shaun ChilliChump: Most of

the ones that I've seen, they

444

tend to be quite small fruit.

445

Like I said with the galapagoense,

they're tiny little round things

446

and maybe about a quarter of an

inch, maybe even smaller than that.

447

They have some heat.

448

And, and some of them, some

interesting flavors as well.

449

But, Yeah, it depends.

450

Like I said, there's another 30 or so

species out there, and they all have

451

something a little bit different to them.

452

But typically the ones that I've seen,

the ones that I've grown before, Capsicum

453

exile is another one I've grown.

454

I did that successfully, but those

are also small little tiny fruit.

455

Tons of seeds, which is never great when

you have a small fruit, but They are,

456

yeah, they're interesting to look at

more so than for me to use in a sauce.

457

Because again, I'm growing a ton of

chilies, I'm not just growing them just

458

to look at, I'm going to eat the things.

459

So I like to grow the bigger varieties.

460

Carmen: Would you say that there are

differences in general flavor between the

461

species or is it more between cultivars?

462

Shaun ChilliChump: Species definitely.

463

Obviously I review these chilies on my

youtube channel But I also sell seeds

464

for quite a few different varieties and

one of them that I'm selling this year

465

is, It's a chinense variety, so it's a

chinense species, but it has no heat.

466

So what's unique with this

one is you get the flavor of

467

a super hot chili but no heat.

468

Now that's not really a good

thing because the chinense species

469

Don't tend to taste fantastic.

470

It's a very unique taste.

471

I'll be able to tell you, even from

the smell, I'll be able to tell

472

you that it's a chinense variety.

473

So yeah, definitely between the different

species they have very unique flavor

474

profiles and also spice profiles too.

475

You obviously get heat from

the Capsicum annuum species and

476

also the Capsicum frutescens.

477

If you've ever had a Thai chili,

you'll know it's got some spice to it.

478

But there we're talking maybe 50, 000 to

100, 000 Scoville in terms of heat levels

479

compared to a chinense you know, some of

these super hots like Carolina Reaper 1.

480

3 million Scoville, you know,

the heat levels are drastically

481

different, but the flavors are

certainly very, very different.

482

So.

483

My favorite chili is probably the peri

peri, so it's an African bird's eye.

484

I am from Africa.

485

And the flavor of that I would

describe it as smoky and sweet

486

and it's got a good spice to it.

487

spice profile, it burns, your

lips and your tongue but it

488

also goes away very quickly.

489

So it's a lot of heat very

quickly, but then it goes away.

490

Whereas quite a few of the Capsicum

chinense they'll build, build, build.

491

And again, even the different

varieties within the Capsicum chinense,

492

they'll burn in different ways.

493

Some will have an upfront burn in

your tongue, some will burn the back

494

of your throat, some will burn the

entire mouth, some will take a while to

495

build, some will hit you very quickly.

496

So, yeah, they will have their own little

intricacies, but you can typically

497

tell which species it is by the

smell, the flavor, and even the heat.

498

Carmen: And certain ones can

actually be cross bred as well.

499

Shaun ChilliChump: Yeah, so that's,

that's one very cool thing about

500

chilies is they are very promiscuous.

501

They, Not in that way, But

they, well, kind of, yeah.

502

Number one, they can self pollinate,

and number two, they are promiscuous,

503

and they got no problem pollinating

within the different species.

504

Now some species cross,

easier than others.

505

Some you could probably cross but

you'd have to do some very specific

506

things to get that to happen.

507

So if you consider if we take two Capsicum

frutescens species of chilies and cross

508

them, they're going to be highly fertile.

509

The F1, the first generation, is

likely going to be very fertile, and

510

you're going to have no problem seeding

that and creating a new variety.

511

So let's say you want to cross a

jalapeno with cayenne right, you're

512

going to cross those over, and they're

most likely going to create a new

513

variety of that species, and it'll,

you know, it'll be quite interesting.

514

You might get something unique,

you might get something that

515

reverts to whichever was the most,

you know, longest living gene.

516

So if the jalapeno has been around

for many, many generations, then

517

that specific one is likely to

come through in the genetics.

518

But then when you get to the more

interesting things is when you want to

519

cross something like something from a

baccatum species with a frutescens, right?

520

That's not going to be easy, right?

521

Your hybrids are going to germinate

okay, so you'll be able to cross them.

522

The hybrid, the combination of the

two will likely germinate, but

523

you're probably not going to

have too much luck going into F2

524

or F3, so the next generations.

525

The big one that people try and do is

the chinense variety, so the super hots.

526

They try and cross a super hot

with something that's large, like a

527

Capsicum annuum, maybe a bell pepper.

528

It's always the the comment I get

on my crossing videos is hey, you

529

know what you should do you should

take a Carolina Reaper and cross

530

with a bell pepper and then you'll

have a massive Carolina Reaper.

531

It doesn't work that way unfortunately,

you might end up getting a very small

532

bell pepper you know, so It's a lot

of fun, and it does take a lot of work

533

because obviously F1 is easy enough,

but then you have to then stabilize

534

it, isolate it so that it doesn't

cross again with something else.

535

You've got to make sure that it's going

to pollinate itself, like I said, they

536

self pollinate, so you can isolate them

by using mesh bags, things like that,

537

or put them in a location that they

don't have access to any other pollen.

538

And then you can self pollinate these

things, and then you have to grow

539

it out over multiple generations.

540

So, it takes about seven generations

before you get to a point that

541

they're going to be fully stable.

542

And that means that, from there

onwards, You don't need to be very,

543

very specific about, isolating them.

544

Those seeds that are going to

be coming from those plants,

545

they're likely to grow true.

546

They'll have the same look and

taste of the chili that came

547

before it, the parent plant.

548

But anything like F2, F3, F4, the

likelihood is it's going to keep changing.

549

And you might have something that

looks a bit different, tastes a bit

550

different, it might not grow very

well, it might not be very healthy.

551

And That's where the challenge comes

in because you can't just grow one

552

or two of these resulting seeds.

553

You need to grow, you know, 50, 60 of

them and then decide which of those

554

50 or 60 have the traits that you're

looking for and then isolate those

555

further and then grow another 50 or 60

in the next generation and keep doing

556

that down multiple generations until

you get to something that, I'm happy

557

with this, this is exactly what I was

looking for, the color, the look, the

558

shape, the taste, and there you go, at

F7 there you have a brand new variety.

559

So, it can be a little challenging

to get it happening, but it is

560

worth it when you've now created

a brand new variety of chili.

561

So I do have a few.

562

I don't know if you've come across that.

563

I have a few that I've done.

564

I have one that's at f5 right now.

565

That was really challenging, and that was

crossing a baccatum with a frutescens.

566

So I mentioned before Peri Peri

is my favorite chili, and I have

567

my own variety of Peri Peri that

I've been selectively breeding for

568

a while, the Chili Chum Peri Peri.

569

And I crossed that with an Aji Lemon

Drop, which again I mentioned earlier.

570

So it's called the Lemon Peri,

and It's at f4, well f5 this year.

571

But it's been a real challenge to get

that thing to, number one, to fruit.

572

I can get a massive plant, a

beautiful plant that looks amazing.

573

The fruit that come off it, I love

the shape of it, but I'm getting

574

three or four fruit on this plant.

575

Now what I have to do is try and make

it so that it's gonna, You know, grow

576

out, I'm going to grow out another 30 or

40 of them this year, maybe 50 of them,

577

and then choose the plants that grow the

most fruit, and keep isolating it down

578

until I get to a point that I've got a

prolifically growing plant with a lot of

579

fruit coming off it, but with the unique

traits that I've been looking for, and

580

the taste, which is kind of a sweet taste,

the citrusy taste, mixed with that smoky,

581

spicy, sweet taste of the peri peri.

582

So it's, it's challenging, but

it's a lot of fun, very rewarding.

583

Carmen: I'm a little curious,

because I know that when you

584

are crossing, stable varieties.

585

So within the same species, when you make

your F1, you'll get mostly dominant traits

586

that are going to be coming out, but then

when you plant out those seeds, you're

587

going to get a lot of recessive genes

manifesting, so you have to plant a lot

588

of them, and then select plants from that,

and then continue down the line if you're

589

dealing with a self pollinating plant.

590

I guess what I'm wondering

is when you're going cross.

591

species are the challenges different?

592

Shaun ChilliChump: There's a study done

593

that I read about, and it talks about

some of the more common varieties, I think

594

there's 12 species that they worked with,

and they did the crossing between the male

595

and the female parent, and they worked out

which were going to germinate normally,

596

which ones would be partially fertile,

which ones would be highly fertile.

597

So the one that I crossed, the frutescens

and the baccatum, it says there

598

that the hybrids germinate normally.

599

So that's fine.

600

But beyond that, that's where

the challenge comes in, right?

601

Because your first F1, it's

fine and it's going to be great.

602

But then after that, that's

where you have problems.

603

I remember when I tried F2 of that

specific species, it took me, it

604

took me about 150 seeds to get four.

605

to actually germinate and ended

up having to keep doing that.

606

That's why it's taking so long.

607

I started this project

quite a few years ago.

608

It's quite challenging.

609

But yeah, there are different

challenges when you're crossing

610

between different species.

611

If you're crossing within

the same species That's easy.

612

That's fairly easy.

613

You've still got a lot of work to

do because you're going to have to,

614

like you've said grow out many, many

different plants to try and get the

615

traits that you're looking for and hope

that you don't get any recessive genes

616

popping in some of the stronger genes

coming in from one of the parents.

617

But, yeah, it's when you start

crossing between species, that's

618

where it gets pretty difficult.

619

Carmen: So I guess viability

is something to overcome when

620

you're going cross species.

621

Shaun ChilliChump: Viability,

the health of it as well.

622

What I've found, I've got about

12 different crosses that I'm

623

working with at the moment.

624

There's a few that

actually sell in my store.

625

I've crossed a few chinense varieties

with each other and come out

626

with some very interesting stuff.

627

Those I see as fairly easy to do.

628

It's still a lot of work and you

have to really be careful with it.

629

But, some of the others that I've

tried, I just, I'm getting nowhere

630

with it because the fertility of it.

631

I have these seeds that look beautiful

and healthy, but getting them to even

632

germinate, it's not happening, right?

633

That's the some of the challenges

that I face with the crossing piece.

634

But it is, it's something as long as

you go into it, understanding that

635

you're not going to just, Hey, I'm

going to take this flower, take that

636

flower, squish them together, and

now we're going to get new species.

637

As long as you're not going to think

like that, then you should be okay.

638

As long as you understand that

there is a challenge to it.

639

It makes it more worthwhile when you

actually do get something interesting.

640

Carmen: And I imagine because there

are so many different species and

641

even varieties within the species,

stable varieties within each

642

species you have a lot to work with.

643

There's a lot of different flavors,

there's a lot of different shapes,

644

even if you are just going to be

crossing varieties within one species.

645

Shaun ChilliChump: Absolutely.

646

The challenge that I have found

is I don't necessarily trust that

647

the seeds that I've purchased in

the past are isolated or stable.

648

So, you know, even though you might

grow it out and, hey, I've got exactly

649

what I was told it's going to be.

650

When you try and grow it out the second

season, if you save seeds from it,

651

the chances are you're probably going

to get something that's a little bit

652

different than what you originally had.

653

So you have to then isolate.

654

Before you even get to the point of

wanting to cross your different varieties.

655

You need to make sure they're

fully stable and isolated.

656

So, most of the time I'm buying seeds,

I have certain suppliers that will help

657

me out with this, and they'll be quite

candid with whether it is isolated or not.

658

So it helps me out.

659

But otherwise I treat it as if it's F1.

660

And I will grow it out for 7 generations.

661

Now you can do multiple

generations in a year.

662

But typically, A generation

happens once a year.

663

So that's seven years just to get

your plants to a stable, position.

664

Once they're in a stable position,

then you start doing the crossing.

665

Because if you're using an unstable

variety to then make a cross, it's

666

unstable with its two parents.

667

So now you might have recessive

genes coming in from two different

668

parents that you're now trying

to cross with another variety.

669

Which one is actually going

to come through, if you have

670

something specific in mind.

671

So you can do it if you just want to

have a go and see what you're going

672

to get from a cross and you're not too

bothered by the parents or what the

673

end result might be, then that's fine.

674

Go ahead and, you know, do that cross.

675

But if you are looking for something

very specific, maybe it's I want a

676

plant that is going to grow massive, be

very healthy, it's going to germinate

677

very quickly, and I, at the end, want

the fruit to look a certain way, and I

678

want the flowers to look a certain way.

679

Then I'm going to be very

specific about which varieties

680

I'm using to cross to get that.

681

If you're not bothered by that, and

you just want to make a new variety,

682

and it's going to be fun, then,

yeah, you can go ahead and do that.

683

Carmen: Have you found particular

traits that are dominant

684

within the different species?

685

Shaun ChilliChump: Not really.

686

It's more down to the varieties.

687

I've been isolating, you know,

selectively breeding my CC Peri

688

Peri, for example, the Chili Chump

Peri Peri, to be something that

689

has all the qualities that I need.

690

Number one, I had to choose a variety

that had chilies that were bigger,

691

because Peri Peri tend to be quite small.

692

And we're talking about like an inch maybe

half an inch even sometimes and harvesting

693

those smaller pods is a bit of a pain.

694

So if you are making sauce from

these things you want bigger pods

695

but you want to maintain the taste

and the heat of the smaller pods.

696

So Selectively breeding to get bigger

pods, that was one of my initial things

697

that I was looking for and then secondly

it was for the size of the plant,

698

so how prolific it was going to be.

699

And then after that, well, I mean I'm

looking for all these things at the

700

same time so, I keep track of all

these things, the app that I mentioned

701

around the beginning, it's Seedsio,

anybody can use it, it's not just for

702

chili growers, s e e d s i o dot com.

703

And basically it helps you to track your

germination rates and things like that.

704

So, I can keep track of all the plants.

705

Growing out the peri peri, I would

know, this plant here took four and

706

a half days for me to germinate.

707

So that's great.

708

I love that.

709

These ones here are

seven days, eight days.

710

Yes, the fruit are nice, but it

took a lot longer to germinate.

711

So I want the ones that germinate quicker.

712

Then I want the plants

that have a bigger yield.

713

So if i'm getting three kilograms of

chilies off a specific plant versus

714

this one over here has only a kilogram

and a half, then I know that I want to

715

save the seeds from that specific plant.

716

And you keep on doing that over and

over again and you keep on isolating

717

it to a point that now i've got a plant

that every year i'm going to get that

718

same quality, i'm going to get the

same virility from the germination.

719

I'm going to have easy fruit setting

and I'm going to have a delicious fruit

720

that's going to be the size that I want.

721

That's kind of what you're aiming

for, but it's keeping track of

722

everything as you're doing this.

723

That's where the real challenge comes in.

724

Some plants are bigger than others.

725

Some will grow into monsters.

726

So, some of the Capsicum chinense

varieties, some of them grow very

727

small, so it'd be like a small bush.

728

But, things like the naga

morich, that's a classic.

729

I absolutely love that chili.

730

It grows massive, very hot chilies.

731

It's not the hottest in the

world, but it's massive chilies.

732

You typically get a very large

tree, pretty much, from this plant.

733

And, in a single season, you'd have

tons and tons of fruit coming off it.

734

Now crossing that with something else,

so one of the crosses I've done is

735

between a Naga Morich and a Viper.

736

So a Naga Viper.

737

It's because I like more heat,

but I want the size plant

738

that the Naga Morich puts out.

739

So yeah, it definitely, it's

not down to species necessarily.

740

Yes, some species like the

baccatums can grow massive.

741

You can get four or five

meter high baccatums.

742

There's a friend of mine in Finland.

743

He runs Fatalii Seeds.

744

So, he calls himself Jukka Fatalii.

745

And he grows these monster baccatum

plants that It's unbelievable.

746

Every year I see his growth

and it's amazing to me.

747

But those things can grow huge.

748

So, you can imagine you might want

to cross a baccatum with something

749

like my peri peri because again,

I want these massive plants.

750

Unfortunately, the plant size

is more the size of my peri peri

751

rather than the baccatum, that

lemon peri that I'm growing.

752

But yeah different species They do have

certain traits, but within the species,

753

there's so many different varieties

that they can make such a difference

754

in terms of the yield and size of

the plant, the health of the plant,

755

germination rates, things like that.

756

Carmen: So you've mentioned a couple of

different, of your favorite varieties,

757

but would you mind talking about

a few other recommended varieties?

758

Shaun ChilliChump: Another favorite is

something I recommend to people that maybe

759

aren't too interested in the hotter stuff.

760

One of the most tasty ones

out there are the peppadew.

761

Now, This is something that many people

have had access to, so in the shops,

762

I don't know if you can get them over

where you are, but it's very popular

763

here in the shops, peppadew, pickled

peppadew, they're like little round

764

pods, and it's like a sweet pickle.

765

So I have a recipe on my website

which, on my YouTube channel actually,

766

to show you exactly how to make the

exact stuff that I'm talking about.

767

It's a sweet pickle and it is delicious.

768

But these chilies are just perfect for it.

769

They grow abundantly and they

grow into massive plants.

770

If you are wanting to start out with

growing chilies, number one peri peri

771

is obviously great because if you like

peri peri chicken and nando's and things

772

like that, then you can make some awesome

stuff with that and it makes great sauces

773

as well, but the peppadew or otherwise

known as the Malawi piquante, those are

774

amazing because they're just so sweet.

775

They have a bit of spice so enough

to you know, let you know that it's

776

there, but when you pickle them

in this way, it's just delicious.

777

And also you can stuff them with

cheese and things like that.

778

Then there's obviously the

classics like the jalapeno.

779

Every year I grow many,

many jalapeno plants.

780

You can imagine, I mean, I have access to

so many different varieties of chilies,

781

but I still grow some of the classics like

that because it's a classic for a reason.

782

It tastes great.

783

It's versatile.

784

It's good in a sauce.

785

It's Good on the barbecue, wrapped

in bacon, stuffed with cheese.

786

I mean, there's so many different

ways you can have it and it

787

does make fantastic sauce.

788

So a lot of people don't

know like jalapeno, they

789

think it's just green, right?

790

That's how it grows and then you end

up with a green pod It's not ripe

791

Jalapenos go red and that's safe.

792

Yeah, I get that question quite a lot.

793

It's like hey, my jalapeno is

changing color I think there's

794

something wrong with it.

795

I'm like, no, it's just ripening.

796

So sriracha is made with

jalapeno, ripe jalapenos.

797

They're also made with serranos.

798

So it's another classic as well but

those are some great varieties to grow.

799

They're fairly easy.

800

They germinate quite quickly and You

won't have too many problems with them.

801

Their season is fairly short.

802

So even if you are living in a place like

I am and you don't have a greenhouse, you

803

want to grow on a windowsill or something

like that, then those are good options.

804

But a lot of beginners they'll end up

rushing over to the superhots, like

805

they're the scary sounding ones, I

understand why I love growing them but

806

the problem is they need a long season

and they get very disappointed and very

807

disheartened when they start them in April

because sometimes on the seed labels it

808

says hey, you can start these in April.

809

That's great but by October,

November, you still haven't

810

got any pods or any ripe pods.

811

It's gonna make you feel

very despondent about things.

812

So those ones can be

a bit more challenging

813

Carmen: So you touched on a couple things

that I'd be curious to elaborate upon.

814

One is the preparation.

815

So what are some recipes

that you would recommend?

816

Shaun ChilliChump: So I'm a big

supporter of fermentation of chilies.

817

So a lot of people don't really know

that most of your most favorite sauces

818

out there are actually fermented.

819

They might not say fermented

because fermenting it's kind of

820

a scary word for some people.

821

It makes you think something

is rotten or whatever.

822

So a lot of these brands will say it's

aged chilies, which just means fermented.

823

It's a natural process that uses

a naturally occurring bacteria

824

that's on the chilies themselves to

actually process them into something

825

that is a little bit more acidic.

826

So lactobacillus is the

bacteria that's on the chilies.

827

It's the same bacteria that's on cabbage.

828

So if you're making sauerkraut,

it's the same stuff that

829

you use to make sauerkraut.

830

It changes the flavor of a chili so much,

and the sauces I make with my fermented

831

chilies, I far prefer to anything else,

because it mellows out the green taste.

832

There's kind of a green taste to

chilies, that's the way I describe a

833

green taste, and you'll know when you

try it, but it's a bit more of a harsh

834

taste, like eating leaves a little bit.

835

I'm not selling this.

836

But when you're fermenting it,

it mellows out the flavors.

837

The flavors all come together.

838

It sort of evens out the peaks of some

of the harsher flavors that are there.

839

The heat level is still there, but a

lot of people think that fermenting,

840

it actually reduces the heat level.

841

It doesn't, really.

842

It might seem like it, just because

the rest of the flavors all come

843

together and, like, supplement the heat.

844

But if you're fermenting a super

hot chili and you try that, believe

845

me, you're still going to have

a lot of heat coming through.

846

So, fermenting is one way that

I love to prepare my chilies.

847

What's great with that as well is

you get an abundance of fruit late in

848

the season, and you can't necessarily

use them all at the same time.

849

So by fermenting them, it allows you

to make sauce throughout the year.

850

So I have buckets and buckets

of fermenting chilies right

851

now for my sauce business.

852

They're all ready to go, and when I

need to make new bottles of sauce, I

853

can then process it from these batches.

854

Yes, you can freeze them, but that's

a bit of a different ballgame.

855

Carmen: Do you salt them?

856

Are they in a brine or

what's your process?

857

Shaun ChilliChump: Yeah, so there's

two, two different ways that I do it,

858

kind of three ways, but two main ways.

859

There's a brine fermentation.

860

So that's where you're adding salt

to water typically at about a 2.

861

5 to 3 percent ratio.

862

So 2.

863

5 percent by weight the salt to the

water and then you're rough chopping

864

up your chilies covering them over

with this brine and then sealing it up.

865

I use airlocks similar to if

you do homebrewing then you'd

866

use these little airlocks.

867

I like to use it that way.

868

I see some people saying you can use like

a mesh cloth over the top and not seal

869

it, but I'm not a fan of that because it's

not as foolproof as the way that I do it.

870

So that's one way of doing it.

871

The other way is a mash fermentation

where you don't add water.

872

This works better for juicier chilies.

873

So you basically blend

up the chilies with a 2.

874

5 to 3 percent weight

of salt to the chilies.

875

So you'll weigh out all your ingredients

that you're going to ferment and then

876

you measure out the salt as 2.5 or 3

percent depending on how you want to go.

877

But 2.

878

5 I would say is the minimum.

879

And then you measure out that salt,

mix it in, blend it up, and again seal

880

it and let it go at least 3 weeks.

881

Let it ferment at temperatures of around

68 Fahrenheit or 20 degrees Celsius.

882

And by the end of that you'll

have a nice fermented, Chili

883

mash or chili fermentation.

884

Then you process it into your sauce.

885

You can do so many different things

and this is again where you probably

886

want to go to my youtube channel,

I have probably about 40 or 50

887

different recipes up on my channel.

888

On my website I've got a bunch

more and I've got a recipe book

889

as well that's got a few in there.

890

But there's different ingredients

you can add you can keep it simple.

891

Have you had Cholula before?

892

Cholula hot sauce?

893

So that's a fermented hot sauce that

they use fermented chilies in there.

894

I believe it's fermented

cayenne if I remember correctly

895

and they keep it very simple.

896

They add in some vinegar, there's

some salt and there's chilies.

897

That's it.

898

Tabasco same thing.

899

Tabasco is fermented chilies.

900

Tabasco use a lot more vinegar but they

ferment their chilies for about three

901

years four years, so you can go that long.

902

The longest I've done is three years,

but three weeks is the very minimum

903

I would normally recommend a month, a

month and a half, two months, and then

904

you can use it but you can keep it

for a lot longer than that, obviously.

905

But Tabasco, they do about, it's about

70 percent of the ingredient is vinegar.

906

So they add vinegar after which is

why it is so watery and vinegary.

907

But most of your big brands,

Sriracha is fermented Who else?

908

Franks.

909

Franks is definitely fermented.

910

Franks uses cayenne as well.

911

Franks is straightforward.

912

It's probably the type of vinegar they use

is what changes the flavor a little bit.

913

But other than that, there's

no other ingredients in there.

914

But if you do want to start playing

with ingredients, some of the

915

ones I like to use, especially

when you're doing hotter chilies.

916

So, ones that can be a

bit more overbearing.

917

You want to get that balance right.

918

You need to use stronger

other ingredients.

919

So, garlic is obviously a good one.

920

Garlic works great.

921

So you can add that in there,

blend it in with your sauce.

922

One that I like to use

as well is Cardamom.

923

If you have got an extremely hot chili,

something like the Carolina Reaper or

924

7 Pot Primo, something like that, and

you're making a sauce from it, If you

925

go and add something subtle, you're

not going to taste it, because the

926

heat is just going to overwhelm you.

927

So you need something

that's going to be strong.

928

So green cardamom, I like to use

that, roasted green cardamom.

929

Blend that up into your sauce, and that

really brings out some amazing flavors.

930

And there's some other great ones.

931

Cumin is great.

932

You know, a lot of the Indian spices,

they work really well with this.

933

Ginger, always a good one, but that's,

again, it's quite subtle in my mind.

934

If there's something missing, and

I'm battling to get past the heat of

935

something, and I need to get some flavor

in there, then cardamom is normally one

936

of the things I'll start playing with.

937

But yeah, there's so many

different ways to prepare it.

938

That's just the sauce side of things.

939

Then you've got the other side, pickling.

940

Pickled chilies are amazing , but

doing it is so so easy again, I have

941

some very simple recipes on my channel

which will help you with pickling.

942

There's the sweet pickling that I

do with the peppadews, the Malawi

943

piquant, and those are great.

944

You can do it with many different chilies.

945

Malawi piquant is one of them

that are particularly nice.

946

Pickled jalapenos are always good.

947

Sliced pickled jalapenos.

948

I put those into salads

and, well, into most meals.

949

Chili con carne, I'd go and

stick it in there as well.

950

So pickling is fantastic.

951

Yeah, the other way is every

year we have lots of barbecues.

952

I'm South African, so barbecues

or braaing, what we call a

953

barbecue, that's like our life.

954

But every time spring, summer comes

along I am doing my stuffed jalapenos.

955

So what we call jalapeno poppers.

956

Basically you slice it in half, take

out the seeds and stuff it full of

957

Philadelphia cream cheese, and then

wrap it in bacon, and then barbecue

958

it and it's awesome, tastes so good.

959

So yeah, there's so many different ways

so many different ways to prepare them.

960

And then the obvious way which is just

chop them up into whatever you're making.

961

Making a bolognese?

962

Throw in some chilies make it taste

nice and spicy or chili con carne.

963

It's always good

964

Carmen: Well, a quick little interjection

there if you're chomping them.

965

So do you have any remedies for the burn?

966

Shaun ChilliChump: Yeah gloves no,

So again, I'm processing chilies,

967

especially when it gets to around August,

September, October, I am processing

968

chilies daily and I use latex gloves,

but I'm still burning because some of

969

the hotter stuff that I use, even when

it aerates and if I'm sweating and

970

it happens to stick to my skin, I'll

feel that burn for the next few hours.

971

There's no way around it really.

972

So you just kind of get used to it.

973

Enjoy the tingle.

974

But yeah, I mean, there's obviously some

remedies if you are eating some hot stuff.

975

If you're going to eat a hot chili and

you want to try and cool that down.

976

Milk, fine, but there's

better things than milk.

977

Milk you'll end up just drinking

way too much and make yourself sick.

978

A bit of ice cream will solve

it if it's a really hot one.

979

Anything that's kind of greasy, try

and eat that before, because it's not

980

the burn initially that's the problem,

because that normally goes away after

981

about 10 minutes, the burn in your mouth.

982

The problem is when it gets into your

stomach, and it's not I'm not going to get

983

too graphic here, but it's not about what

comes out of the other end, it's actually

984

the process of your body digesting it.

985

It can give you such serious cramps.

986

That's my biggest problem because

I eat these super hot chilies to

987

figure out the flavors and how

I'm going to use them in sauces.

988

My biggest problem is not

the heat in the mouth.

989

I can get through that.

990

It's the next two, three hours while

it's going in your digestion system.

991

Your body is detecting that capsaicin,

the hot stuff that's in the chili,

992

and you get such severe cramps.

993

So anything you can do to avoid

that, that's hugely beneficial.

994

That's normally where I'll drink something

like a milkshake before or something

995

like that, just so it lays your stomach.

996

But in terms of your

hands, yeah, wear gloves.

997

That's the only real way.

998

There's no other way to do it.

999

And if you do happen to get it on

your hands, be careful of where

00:55:35,131 --> 00:55:36,321

else you're going to put your hands.

00:55:39,361 --> 00:55:42,271

Carmen: So the capsaicin

is fat soluble, right?

00:55:42,691 --> 00:55:44,131

So that's why no water.

00:55:44,131 --> 00:55:47,801

Shaun ChilliChump: Water is going to

do the same as milk really, it cools

00:55:47,871 --> 00:55:51,203

your mouth down while it's in your

mouth, but then it's going to feel even

00:55:51,213 --> 00:55:53,453

hotter once you've swallowed the water.

00:55:54,293 --> 00:55:55,743

So that's why milk kind of helps.

00:55:55,743 --> 00:55:59,723

It will kind of break it down a little

bit, but it doesn't matter when you're

00:55:59,743 --> 00:56:01,843

going to some of the more extreme chilies.

00:56:02,338 --> 00:56:03,898

It doesn't matter what

you put in your mouth.

00:56:03,908 --> 00:56:04,798

It's gonna hurt.

00:56:06,208 --> 00:56:09,938

But yeah, if you're doing things like

the Peri Peris, then just eat something.

00:56:09,938 --> 00:56:10,798

Eat some cheese.

00:56:10,848 --> 00:56:11,778

That's a good one.

00:56:11,828 --> 00:56:14,705

Some cream cheese or some cottage cheese.

00:56:15,695 --> 00:56:18,565

Anything like that to just cool

your mouth down for a while.

00:56:19,255 --> 00:56:19,945

Yogurt's good.

00:56:20,015 --> 00:56:20,285

Yeah.

00:56:20,486 --> 00:56:24,591

Carmen: So you mentioned that some

of them require a longer season.

00:56:24,611 --> 00:56:27,611

I have heard of people

overwintering their plants.

00:56:27,941 --> 00:56:29,971

Is that something that can help?

00:56:30,791 --> 00:56:31,321

Shaun ChilliChump: Absolutely.

00:56:31,401 --> 00:56:35,091

You get a nice early start, but it

can also present its own challenges.

00:56:35,091 --> 00:56:37,161

So I've done some experiments

with overwintering.

00:56:37,231 --> 00:56:43,191

I think certain species, certain varieties

are more adept to being overwintered.

00:56:43,921 --> 00:56:47,321

I tried overwintering my jalapeno

plants because I wanted some nice

00:56:47,391 --> 00:56:49,301

early jalapeno poppers on the barbecue.

00:56:50,101 --> 00:56:54,461

And I did, I got some early

fruit, but they had no heat.

00:56:54,781 --> 00:56:58,591

So even though it's the same plant the

second year of growing and the third

00:56:58,591 --> 00:57:03,355

year of growing, I found that it

changed the heat level of these chilies.

00:57:03,475 --> 00:57:04,885

So that didn't really work out too well.

00:57:05,375 --> 00:57:09,365

With some of the super hots, Capsicum

chinense varieties, they seem to

00:57:09,385 --> 00:57:13,495

do quite well especially because

of the fact that they take such

00:57:13,495 --> 00:57:15,372

a long time anyway to set fruit.

00:57:15,722 --> 00:57:18,972

So if you are someone that has started

at one of the super hots or something

00:57:18,972 --> 00:57:22,502

like a habanero for example, and

you started that in April, May you

00:57:22,502 --> 00:57:23,862

might not have fruit that first year.

00:57:23,912 --> 00:57:26,042

That's not a problem

you can overwinter it.

00:57:26,352 --> 00:57:29,425

So trim it right back, get

rid of a lot of the leaves.

00:57:29,435 --> 00:57:30,835

So there's only a few leaves on there.

00:57:31,465 --> 00:57:35,820

Clean out the soil and clean off

the roots, put in some fresh soil,

00:57:35,870 --> 00:57:37,720

and keep it indoors, somewhere warm.

00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:40,530

You don't necessarily need any

light or anything like that,

00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:41,720

because you want it to go dormant.

00:57:42,140 --> 00:57:45,180

And then just lightly water it,

maybe once every two weeks or so.

00:57:45,460 --> 00:57:50,050

And when it comes to the next April,

and you're ready to take it outside,

00:57:50,050 --> 00:57:51,260

you're going to get an early head start.

00:57:51,270 --> 00:57:53,160

So that's what overwintering really is.

00:57:53,710 --> 00:57:57,320

But it is important not to overwater,

because that's what a lot of people do.

00:57:57,320 --> 00:57:59,500

They think, well, it's growing,

I need to give it water, right?

00:57:59,500 --> 00:58:00,210

It looks dry.

00:58:01,420 --> 00:58:04,110

But yeah, all that's going to

do is just sit in there with wet

00:58:04,110 --> 00:58:06,730

roots because it's not actively

going to be sucking up that water.

00:58:07,580 --> 00:58:10,890

So yeah overwintering does

work with some varieties but I

00:58:11,020 --> 00:58:12,830

don't do it myself too much.

00:58:13,130 --> 00:58:16,510

Number one, I really enjoy growing

from seed I love that whole process

00:58:16,510 --> 00:58:20,380

starting off from seed and seeing

them grow and you know If you time

00:58:20,380 --> 00:58:21,850

it all right, then you're fine.

00:58:21,850 --> 00:58:24,185

I get good harvest, so it's all good.

00:58:24,575 --> 00:58:28,215

And the second reason is, some

varieties, I just don't get the quality

00:58:28,305 --> 00:58:32,765

of the chilies that I'm expecting

or wanting when we get to, you

00:58:32,765 --> 00:58:34,105

know, the second year, third year.

00:58:34,795 --> 00:58:36,985

And also some varieties, they

don't do very well in terms

00:58:36,985 --> 00:58:39,865

of overwintering too many times.

00:58:40,165 --> 00:58:43,605

So the first three years

typically is when the plant is

00:58:43,605 --> 00:58:45,185

going to be producing the best.

00:58:45,845 --> 00:58:48,285

After that it's not

going to produce as much.

00:58:49,205 --> 00:58:52,695

I found that to be pretty much

most varieties are like that.

00:58:52,949 --> 00:58:55,309

Carmen: Just one last

thing is seed saving.

00:58:55,319 --> 00:58:57,189

So you mentioned you

like growing from seed.

00:58:57,879 --> 00:59:03,499

If somebody wants to save their own

seeds, they're only growing one variety.

00:59:04,909 --> 00:59:06,419

They are self fertile.

00:59:06,419 --> 00:59:08,319

I guess that would mean you

wouldn't have to bag them.

00:59:09,184 --> 00:59:11,694

I guess if they have two

varieties, they might need to bag.

00:59:11,694 --> 00:59:13,954

Like, what would you suggest

to be good seed saving

00:59:13,954 --> 00:59:16,074

practices, if it's not a hybrid?

00:59:16,739 --> 00:59:18,459

Shaun ChilliChump: So if it's not a

hybrid, if it's an heirloom, or if

00:59:18,459 --> 00:59:22,539

it's something that is considered

stable, some of the less exotic type

00:59:22,539 --> 00:59:25,719

of chilies, you know, like a jalapeno

or cayenne, if you're growing something

00:59:25,719 --> 00:59:28,479

like that, or scotch bonnet, and you

happen to know that it's good seed

00:59:28,499 --> 00:59:33,462

stock, good seed source that you've

started with, then take a chance.

00:59:33,462 --> 00:59:34,362

It's not going to be a problem.

00:59:34,372 --> 00:59:37,710

Save the seeds from your healthiest

pods and grow them on the next year.

00:59:37,780 --> 00:59:42,220

If you want to be very, specific about

what's going to come through and be

00:59:42,220 --> 00:59:46,660

very certain of making sure that it's

exactly the right variety, it's the

00:59:46,660 --> 00:59:49,330

same as what I've grown this year,

then you're going to need to isolate.

00:59:49,910 --> 00:59:54,000

So A flower, chili flower

can pollinate itself.

00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:57,110

So it's not just the plant

pollinating itself it's the actual

00:59:57,110 --> 00:59:58,590

flower can pollinate itself.

00:59:58,590 --> 01:00:01,770

So the pollen that's produced by

that individual flower can then

01:00:01,820 --> 01:00:05,320

pollinate itself, which is why

we use things like favor bags.

01:00:05,330 --> 01:00:07,860

There's something called

organza favor bags.

01:00:07,860 --> 01:00:11,010

They're like little mesh bags that

you can buy quite cheap on ebay.

01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:17,430

Cover over the flower before it opens up

and that'll stop bees and other insects

01:00:17,430 --> 01:00:21,660

coming along and pollinating it with

potentially pollen from another plant.

01:00:22,070 --> 01:00:24,550

Which then means you could have

some sort of hybrid growing.

01:00:25,230 --> 01:00:27,690

So that's only if you

want to be very specific.

01:00:27,750 --> 01:00:31,010

Like I want to make sure that I get

this exact scotch bonnet next year.

01:00:31,010 --> 01:00:33,470

I want it to be that color, I

want it to be that flavor, I want

01:00:33,470 --> 01:00:34,940

it to be the same type of plant.

01:00:35,370 --> 01:00:36,630

You're gonna need to isolate.

01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:40,000

Otherwise you're just taking

a little bit of a risk.

01:00:40,540 --> 01:00:43,850

Most of the time you'll be perfectly

fine especially if it is something

01:00:43,850 --> 01:00:48,340

that is a fairly stable variety

because the genes are gonna dominate

01:00:48,380 --> 01:00:50,070

and it's going to take over.

01:00:50,100 --> 01:00:53,770

So if something else has tried

to pollinate with it then it

01:00:53,770 --> 01:00:54,690

doesn't really matter too much.

01:00:54,690 --> 01:00:57,820

You might get something a little

bit different, but by F2 it's

01:00:57,820 --> 01:00:59,640

gonna be back to what it was before

01:01:00,115 --> 01:01:01,795

Carmen: And is there

anything for seed storage?

01:01:02,208 --> 01:01:04,918

Shaun ChilliChump: You've got to dry

it first properly, and yeah, it's

01:01:04,918 --> 01:01:06,478

the same as with most seed storage.

01:01:06,478 --> 01:01:10,378

Just make sure you're drying it properly,

not drying it at too high a heat.

01:01:10,808 --> 01:01:14,778

So obviously for my seed store

I dry things very slowly.

01:01:15,188 --> 01:01:21,193

I simulate drying in the sun, so

I won't exceed 30 degrees Celsius.

01:01:21,843 --> 01:01:25,153

And I will then do that for quite a while.

01:01:25,193 --> 01:01:28,793

And I'll make sure that my humidity levels

are set to a specific humidity level.

01:01:29,493 --> 01:01:31,333

At that point, you can

then seal it in a bag.

01:01:31,943 --> 01:01:35,443

Now, if you don't dry it properly and you

seal it in a bag, you're going to end up

01:01:35,443 --> 01:01:39,553

getting fungus or some sort of growth on

there and it's going to kill your seed.

01:01:39,923 --> 01:01:40,713

So that's not good.

01:01:40,973 --> 01:01:43,693

The other thing is, as well,

anything that I want to keep beyond

01:01:43,693 --> 01:01:45,273

a year, I'll store it in the fridge.

01:01:45,773 --> 01:01:49,753

You can't do that if the seeds

haven't dried sufficiently.

01:01:50,473 --> 01:01:54,728

Because you can also store them in

a freezer and again, if you do that,

01:01:54,798 --> 01:01:58,028

and they aren't dried sufficiently,

you're just going to break the seed.

01:01:58,438 --> 01:02:02,988

So, you could store it as you would

any other seed, just in the dark, in

01:02:02,988 --> 01:02:06,958

a space that's going to be fairly

dry, and you'll be perfectly fine,

01:02:06,958 --> 01:02:09,948

but just make sure that you prepared

them right in the first place.

01:02:10,358 --> 01:02:10,628

Right?

01:02:11,023 --> 01:02:14,083

Carmen: So just quickly, would you

mind running through some of the

01:02:14,123 --> 01:02:20,078

connections where people can find your

YouTube channel, your all your stuff.

01:02:21,098 --> 01:02:22,438

What's the name of your book?

01:02:22,488 --> 01:02:23,128

That kind of thing.

01:02:23,908 --> 01:02:27,138

Shaun ChilliChump: So I have a little

bit of a tagline at the end of my videos

01:02:27,148 --> 01:02:31,648

which I say "stay spicy" and that's

what I named my first recipe book.

01:02:31,648 --> 01:02:36,068

So Stay Spicy the recipe book, but that

you can only buy really on my website.

01:02:37,055 --> 01:02:37,235

ChilliChump.

01:02:37,265 --> 01:02:37,535

com.

01:02:37,535 --> 01:02:40,795

So C H I L L I C H U M P dot com.

01:02:41,385 --> 01:02:43,975

I also have my seed store,

which is ChilliChumpSeeds.

01:02:43,995 --> 01:02:46,985

com, but you can get that

link from my main website.

01:02:46,985 --> 01:02:49,185

So most of my links will be on

my main website, if you don't

01:02:49,185 --> 01:02:50,255

want to remember all of these.

01:02:50,795 --> 01:02:54,355

And YouTube, of course, just search

ChilliChump and you'll see , a big bearded

01:02:54,355 --> 01:02:56,555

man showing off his lovely chilli plants.

01:02:57,155 --> 01:02:57,785

But that's on YouTube.

01:02:57,785 --> 01:02:58,575

YouTube.

01:02:58,575 --> 01:03:01,285

com forward slash ChilliChump

and you'll find me there.

01:03:01,715 --> 01:03:06,378

But I release videos most weeks,

slow down a little bit at the moment

01:03:06,388 --> 01:03:10,976

because obviously running multiple

businesses and coding seedsio, that's

01:03:11,026 --> 01:03:12,536

taking a lot of time these days.

01:03:13,316 --> 01:03:15,906

But you'll see at least

a few videos every month.

01:03:16,256 --> 01:03:20,346

And then, also, hope to see you on the

next one, actually, my live stream.

01:03:20,346 --> 01:03:23,946

I do a live stream on the first

Sunday of every month at 5 p.

01:03:23,946 --> 01:03:24,126

m.

01:03:24,126 --> 01:03:24,376

GMT.

01:03:25,266 --> 01:03:26,156

And that's good fun.

01:03:26,206 --> 01:03:29,056

People get to ask questions, and if they

have any problems with their plants,

01:03:29,056 --> 01:03:32,906

or if they've got some problems making

their hot sauces, then they normally ask

01:03:32,906 --> 01:03:36,206

me questions there, and it's a good bit

of time I get to spend with my viewers.

01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:40,700

Carmen: Yeah, it seems that

chilis do have quite a community.

01:03:41,216 --> 01:03:42,006

Shaun ChilliChump: Yeah, it is.

01:03:42,066 --> 01:03:43,946

It's because there's

so many aspects to it.

01:03:44,296 --> 01:03:45,736

It is a massive community.

01:03:45,736 --> 01:03:48,436

When I first started out, it was

about, I mean, I've been growing

01:03:48,436 --> 01:03:50,526

chili since I was very, very young.

01:03:50,996 --> 01:03:53,351

But, Not on purpose, right?

01:03:53,361 --> 01:03:56,851

Back in South Africa, we had a few peri

peri plants, but it was just in the

01:03:56,851 --> 01:04:02,121

garden growing wild and didn't have to

do too much to make them do their thing.

01:04:02,321 --> 01:04:05,751

But when I came over to the UK,

obviously you have to do it on purpose

01:04:06,311 --> 01:04:07,641

if you're going to grow some chilies.

01:04:07,681 --> 01:04:11,091

when I started doing this.

01:04:11,551 --> 01:04:15,451

And even back then the community was

massive and it's very passionate.

01:04:16,113 --> 01:04:20,193

It used to be quite male

dominated, and these days less

01:04:20,193 --> 01:04:21,803

so, which is awesome to see.