Great news! The key to feeling stronger, leaner and more energized isn’t about eating less, but eating more strategically. This episode is a deep dive into the ways carbs, proteins, and fats shape your body composition and my top macros for getting lean. 

Finding the right diet system is an individualized process that requires trial and error. Experiment! There are, however, underlying truths across diet systems which I share in this episode. For instance, no system should make you feel really uncomfortable or like you like herculean discipline to stick with it. The results of one of my amazing 70 year old clients who realized incredible results on her DEXA scan by shifting her macronutrient intake and building muscle will definitely inspire you to focus on your macros!

Did you know that getting enough carbs is just as important as getting enough protein? And enough fat? This is where macros strategy comes into play. I share the two things you must do to improve your body composition AND my macronutrient distribution strategy that I usually only share with private coaching clients! Wherever you are in your fitness journey, prepare for some fine-tuning! 

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Topics covered

• The importance of finding the right diet system for you
• Understanding the science behind macronutrients and nutrition
• How to balance macronutrients for ultimate health
• The 50/25/25 eating strategy 
• Two things you must do to improve your body composition 
• Why overdoing it on protein isn’t an optimal strategy for building muscle
• My top secret tip on how to eat if your body fat is above 40%

Resources Mentioned

• Research on diet strategies to protect muscle during energy deficit 
• Research on macronutrient imbalances
• Research on dietary guidelines 
• Research on how macronutrients impact body composition 
• Transcripts can be found on the official blog page for this episode at hollyperkins.com/blog

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Find me on Instagram: @hollyperkins

Learn more on my website: hollyperkins.com

Connect with me on Facebook: facebook.com/HollyPerkinsFitness

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What if the key to feeling stronger, leaner, and more energized isn't about eating less, but about eating more strategically—and maybe even, dare I say, eating more. In this episode, I'm breaking down the essential role of macronutrients—that is, carbohydrates, proteins, and fats—in shaping your body composition and giving you the best macros for getting lean. So keep listening.

Hello, and thank you for being here. This podcast has become the joy of my life and the passion of my week. I love it so much, and it would be nothing without you. So thank you. If you are new, welcome. I'm Holly Perkins, and I help women—mostly over 40—improve body composition to at least 70% lean muscle so that you can reduce your risk of disease and stay in the game of life and out of the rocking chair. I know there's a pretty good chance that you're confused by what to eat and when to eat—even I. I also know there's a really good chance that right now, you've just been failed by some diet approach that you tried for a few weeks and it didn't work out.

The trend I see with incoming clients is that they hear a very compelling message from media or social media about a particular diet approach, and so they jump in and they try it. And sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it works for a few weeks, and then something mysterious knocks you off track. It's a bit of a crapshoot. So you find yourself back to the drawing board in the end, when it doesn't work, looking for a different solution. And I know there's a good chance that may be why you're listening to me right now.

And I'll be honest—this really is actually how I found my way to a system that works for me over and over and over and over. And that system got refined and perfected, and it's now what I teach my clients and what I use for myself, over and over, for about 10 years now. So in other words, trial and error and experimentation does have its place in you finding the system that works for you. So I encourage you to experiment until you find the system that's a win. But there's something to watch for, because it can be incredibly damaging—and that's feeling as if you've failed when, in fact, a diet approach didn't work for you. And while I do believe there is some degree of discipline that's valuable and necessary—you've got to have some of it—you won't need as much willpower when you've got the right approach.

And after 30 years—30 years in practice, day in and day out, coaching women—I will tell you this: if you need to white-knuckle your way through a diet or an exercise plan, really, to be successful, it is the wrong system for you. If you have to fight and battle your way through hunger and cravings in order to win, it is not the best approach for you, for your lifestyle, for your body, or even for your philosophies. If you have to rely on discipline and willpower in order to succeed, you are off the mark, my friend. And I promise you, there's a better way. If you haven't yet found the methodology of eating that works for you just yet, it's not because you're lacking willpower or discipline—and it is not your fault.

Please hear me loud and clearly. And if you don't agree with me and you feel that it is your fault, let me ask you this: ask yourself, do you demonstrate discipline and willpower in other areas of your life? Do you show up each day? Do you do hard things? Because if you do, your failed experiments in nutrition are not because of you and because of lack of discipline—because if you can do it in other areas of your life, you can do it here too.

So when you've got the right system—and at the risk of sounding like just another slick marketing message—I'm going to share with you today the macronutrient approach that I personally use and employ with my clients to help you get lean with the least amount of physical discomfort, that requires the least amount of willpower and discipline. Now, it might require the challenge of learning new behaviors and practices, but at least you won't be fighting through hunger, food cravings, or even extreme fatigue in order to win. If you've ever felt stuck in the cycle of dieting, calorie counting, calorie restriction, or just general weight loss frustration—

—this conversation will shift your perspective. In this episode, you'll learn the real science behind macronutrients and how they fuel muscle growth, fat loss, and metabolic health. You'll learn why focusing on body composition—not just weight loss—is the game changer for long-term strength and vitality, and the biggest myths about carbs, protein, and fats, and the best macros for getting lean. So, I literally just—I think a couple nights ago—received a DEXA scan from a client who just completed six months of coaching inside of The Body Composition Project. Comparing it against her first DEXA scan six months ago, she improved her body composition by 4.2%.

And if you aren't familiar with these metrics—or looking at DEXA scans in particular—I'm not talking about InBody scans or any kind of, like, a bathroom scale. I'm talking specifically DEXAs. 4.2% might not sound like that much to you, but the truth is, it is, once you understand the conversation. And in fact, I'll be honest, it's huge. A 4% change in body composition is a big deal. But let me break it down for you. So, her body fat percentage six months ago went from 34.1% to 29.9%. And if you know me, you know my goal and the category that I want my clients to get to first is 70% lean muscle. Now listen—disclaimer—the equation that I'm going to share with you now is not actually 100% accurate, but it's a conversation that I use to make this conversation simple, relatable, understandable, and easy to coach from.

So the first thing to understand is that if you get a body composition scan, there are a million different types of scans that you can get and a million different machines. Every report is going to kick out different numbers. Some of them are going to kick out your BMC, bone mineral content. Some of them are going to kick out your lean muscle mass in pounds, and some of them are going to kick out your VAT. But they're all different. The only number that is a through-line on all body composition reports is the percentage of body fat. It's the only number you will find on any report. So what I do inside of my community to make it easier on your brain and to make it easier to coach from: I take 100%

which represents your body weight at the time of the scan, and I subtract that body fat percentage from the scan to arrive at your lean muscle mass percentage. So, for example, I took 100 minus her original body fat percentage, which was 34.1%, and we arrive at a lean muscle mass percentage of 65.9 — let's call it 66%. As you know, my first target is to get you to 70% lean muscle. So she's got 4% to go. Now listen, if you're one of those nerdy people that like to get real specific about numbers, I am saying this is not actually 100% accurate, because part of the 100% of your body weight is bone mineral content. But after looking at DEXA scans, I can tell you this is anywhere from three to seven pounds. It's a very small percentage of your overall body weight. That's why, for this conversation, I take it out of the conversation and just say: what is your body fat percentage subtracted by 100 — that's your lean muscle mass percent.

And get that to 30% to start, and then ideally, let's get you to either 75 or 80% lean muscle mass. You'll be in fighting shape, and when you get there, you're going to significantly reduce your risk of diseases that are related to body fat. Follow? So let's go back to the story. Her body fat percentage went from 34.1% to 29.9%. She got to that 70% lean muscle mass category. That is a big deal. She has officially crossed into the territory where she is at a reduced risk of disease. Big deal. But wait — it gets even better. These numbers equal 5.7 pounds of pure muscle lost, and 4.1 pounds of pure muscle gained. Do you want another real kicker? The scale only went down.

Have you done the math? It only went down by 1.6 pounds. Depending on the scale she was standing on, that might have only shown as a one-pound weight loss on the scale after a six-month program. Can you imagine how upset with me she would have been if, after six months, she only lost one pound? And I wonder, have you ever been in that situation where the scale didn't change that much, and so you thought, "Wow, this experiment was a failure"? That's because you don't know what was underneath your skin. You don't know how that body weight was composed.

That is why body composition is everything. So if we didn't have that DEXA scan, we wouldn't have known what had happened off the scale, right? We never would have known that she gained so much muscle. And you might say, "Oh gosh, four pounds of muscle is not a big deal." But wait, there's one more kicker — it gets even better than that — and she lost, as I said, almost six pounds of pure fat. This is exactly what it means to become leaner, and it doesn't relate to the number on the scale for some people. So you want to know the final kicker? She's turning 70 this year. That is right. A woman over 40, over 50, and over 60 just improved her body composition by a significant amount — because she added muscle.

This is a big deal. Can you imagine how much stronger she feels, how much leaner she is, and how much better she looks? You can imagine. I'll reveal her story down the road. We're talking about doing a podcast episode with her, but I can tell you right now, she looks and feels a whole lot better. I share this story with you because I need you to know: if she can do it, so can you. She will tell you she did not do anything magic. She did not do anything that required extreme effort in terms of workouts or her diet.

She was rarely uncomfortable — maybe a little bit sore — but other than that, it was really quite sustainable and quite doable. So let's talk about the real science behind macronutrients and how they fuel muscle growth, fat loss, and metabolic health. You might find that you've been making the mistake of choosing the foods that you eat each day based on an "eat this, not that" or "this food is good and that food is bad" approach — and that some foods are just good for you, like protein, and some foods are definitely really bad for you, like sugar.

Right now, I don't really ascribe to that thinking, because I do believe there's a time and a place for almost everything. Instead of looking at foods as good or bad, I invite you to think of them in terms of their predominant macronutrient — carbohydrate, protein, or fat. These are the three — and only three — nutrients that provide calories. That is why they're called macronutrients, and these days, people just refer to it as macros. And each has importance in terms of your body's functions.

No one with a degree would argue that your body only needs one or two of these macronutrients. We know that you must have all three. If you were to eliminate carbohydrates from your diet, for example — and if you were to eliminate them completely for an extended period of time — you would develop significant health problems down the road, because you need carbohydrates just like you need protein and fats. One is not better than the other. Once you understand this, everything will change for you in terms of hearing all of this mixed messaging that comes at you in the media.

Don't make the mistake of thinking one is better than the other. Instead, I invite you to learn which macronutrient is predominant in your go-to foods. For example, beans have protein, but they have way more carbohydrates. So they are classified as a carbohydrate because it's the predominant macronutrient—carbohydrate. Get this: one large egg has between six and seven grams of protein. Wow, that is a protein food, right? Nope, wrong—because it also has five grams of fat. Now you might be thinking, "But wait, there’s six or seven grams of protein in an egg and five grams of fat. So there’s more protein than fat, right?" No, we base it on the percentage of calories.

Protein has four calories per gram, and fat has nine calories per gram. Therefore, in one egg, you've got about 45 calories coming from fat and only 24 or 28 calories coming from protein. Now I know this is a lot of mental gymnastics for your brain, but once you understand it, calorie for calorie, an egg is categorized as a fat because the predominant calories come from fat. Each macronutrient in your body has a role. Carbohydrates are important for metabolic health. They're important for energy—sustained energy—and glucose for both your brain and your muscles. Protein is important for building muscles and repairing other structures in your body.

Dietary fat is important for brain and nerve health, the creation of hormones, and the absorption of fat-soluble vitamins like A, D, E, and K. So each is equally important, and each has a minimum effective dose, if you will, for optimal health. As I always say, too much protein is just as bad as too many carbohydrates. Too little fat is just as bad as too much. Too much fat is just as bad as too little carbohydrates. Do you get the picture? It's about a strategic balance. The key is to be strategic and intentional in the amount of each macronutrient that you're getting from your foods.

What I found, after all these years in practice, is that the easiest, fastest, most effective way to balance your macros for getting lean is to aim for 40 to 50% of your daily calories coming from carbs, and 25 to 35% of your daily calories in total coming from fat and protein. Here's why: when you choose your foods and portion sizes to meet this macronutrient strategy, the following happens. Your blood sugar will be more stable because you've got the right blend of carbs and protein, and you've got just enough fat to slow down digestion a bit. When blood sugar is stable, you'll feel better, you'll perform better, you'll think more clearly, and you'll burn fat steadily all day long and at night while you're sleeping. You'll also get the right amount of protein without calculating your target or adding up your grams all day long. Every single time I hop on social media, someone else is talking about how they get—

"X grams of protein per day." They show you what they ate for every meal, and they add up the number of grams of protein. Personally, that's more mental bandwidth than I have the space for. I don't want to be adding up my grams of protein all day long. I want to be plugging my foods and my meals into my food tracking app. In general, I calculate total calories based on current body weight, not the target body weight. So my 50/25/25 strategy ensures the perfect amount of protein for your body weight at this time, so that you can recover from strength workouts and build muscle optimally without getting too many calories from protein.

Remember, too many calories, in general, causes weight gain because of fat accumulation, and it doesn't matter where the calories come from. To some degree, a calorie is a calorie, and if you're eating in an energy surplus, you're going to accumulate fat if you're not burning off those calories through your energy expenditure and activity. When you choose your foods and portion sizes to meet this macronutrient strategy, insulin sensitivity improves because you're giving your blood the glucose that it needs to first support your brain, and therefore reduce the reliance on muscle and liver glycogen to be offered up as fuel for your body and for your brain.

This means there's going to be less up and down, and a steady stream of glucose for your brain without tapping into muscle glycogen. This leaves your muscle energy in the form of stored glucose—which is glycogen in the muscle—so that it's ready for workouts. Up next, you'll hear why focusing on body composition, not just weight loss, is the game changer for long-term strength and vitality—and the biggest myths about carbs, protein, and fats, and the best macros for getting lean. But first, I've got something extra special to share.

If you think about it weight loss is a poor strategy for long term strength and vitality because we know from the US Army Research Institute Study, which I’ve linked in the show notes, that even a moderate calorie deficit can cause 25% of the weight lost to come from muscle. Recently I reviewed the DEXA scan of a woman whose weight loss was 30% muscle.

Think about that. You lose nine pounds on the scale, and three pounds are coming from muscle. That is an eye-opener, right? When you lose weight, there is a very good chance that you'll lose muscle, because you might be thinking, "Well, that's not going to happen to me. I eat a lot of protein." Let me tell you—even my clients who work with me run the tendency of losing muscle when they lose weight. And muscle is your organ of longevity because it keeps you strong, protects you from injuries, reduces your risk of diseases, and improves bone density.

Even if you need to release some body fat in order to be healthy, you'll be far more successful if you focus on building muscle instead of losing weight. Just like the story earlier, my client did need to reduce her body fat in order to be healthy. But instead of putting her on a weight-loss protocol, I calculated her calories and her macros to support muscle first so that the muscle would burn off the body fat. It's often a slower process, but it's also more sustainable, and it leads to permanent results.

So, to improve your body composition, you need to do two things. Number one, eat at a mild calorie deficit, where you ensure that you're getting the minimum effective dose of protein. This will allow you to build muscle and lose fat during the same training cycle. And this is in contrast to a different strategy that's out there that suggests that you should first eat in a calorie surplus so that you can optimize muscle building. But when you do that, you will inevitably accumulate body fat as well. And then, once you build that muscle, you then shift your strategy. You go into a calorie deficit, and you burn off the fat that you gain. So it's kind of like a bulking phase and then a leaning phase. And...

There are a lot of voices out there that still do this, and it's a strategy that works, without a doubt. In fact, I would even argue that might be my favorite strategy. The problem is, it's not necessary. And two, you have to be willing to deal with some body fat that comes with that muscle growth. Most women, in my experience, don't like the way they feel when they're in a bulking phase. They don't like to feel bigger. They don't want to see the body fat go up for six months before they can enter into a phase to take the body fat off. And so, you can do it that way, without a doubt. I just don't think it's necessary, and I would even argue you don't build muscle statistically significantly faster.

Yeah, you're probably optimized for muscle building. My argument is: the juice isn't worth the squeeze, as they say. The muscle that you get from that isn't worth the discomfort of gaining body fat. And oh, by the way, gaining body fat is rarely a good idea unless you are underweight and severely under body fat percentage. So ultimately, this assumes the truth, which is: yes, you can build muscle and lose fat in the same phase. And if you get your nutrition and your macros right, it works beautifully. I see it every single week with my clients.

So, number two: use progressive, resistant strength training to actually build muscle, because muscle growth will not happen without it. And this rides on the words progressive resistance. You have to be progressively using increased resistance or effort levels in your strength training, otherwise the muscle won't grow. Just because you're strength training doesn't mean you get stronger or build the muscle. You have to be pushing the envelope and pushing the edge of your ability in order to optimize your performance, so that you can work hard enough during your workouts to actually create the stimulus for muscle growth. You need carbohydrates then to optimize muscle recovery after those high-performing workouts. You'll need carbs to recover from the workout. Frequently enough, I will get a call from a new client who has been emphasizing a high-protein diet in an effort to build muscle.

Sometimes, I even have people come to me who are eating as much as two grams of protein per pound of body weight. Listen up. That is way too much for a mere mortal. If you are a male competitive bodybuilder, have at it. But if you are a mostly average woman between the ages of 35 and 70, you do not need to be eating two grams of protein per pound of body weight. I would even argue you don't even need 1.5 grams of protein per pound of body weight. And to their surprise, they're actually struggling to build muscle, even though this seems to be the strategy to build muscle. So why isn't it working?

And then, to me, what's saddest of all—when they're eating all this protein but not gaining the muscle—what happens is, to their surprise, they actually believe that they're struggling to build muscle because of hormones or age. And that's just not true. In my experience, that's not the case. Instead, what's happening is they aren't getting enough carbohydrates with the protein to optimize muscle recovery and, therefore, growth at the right calorie energy balance or energy deficit in order to manage body fat. See, it's a dance. It's a blend of macronutrients and calories and strength training.

The biggest myth I continue to hear is: if you want to lose weight, cut back on carbs. You've heard that, right? You might even be like, "Well, yeah, duh. That's the way it goes." It actually isn't. If that was the way that it goes, it would be working for more people. I often also hear: more protein is better. Do you have that assumption? I wouldn't be surprised if you did—and no fault to you, because a lot of people believe that. And another myth is: eat more healthy fats. Healthy fats are healthy. Healthy fats are healthy, right? Yes, healthy fats are healthy. But all three of these statements really are...

Misguided, because, while healthy fat is healthy, it adds up super fast because of what I just said—racking up your total daily calories. Every gram of fat has nine calories. The more healthy fats you eat, the more total calories you're getting in for a day. And while someone might think, "Well, that's not a problem," you've got to be in a calorie deficit if you want to release extra unnecessary body fat. You have to be. And for every time I hear an expert say that Americans don't eat enough protein, another source will tell you that, in general, Americans eat too much protein.

So instead of arbitrarily, quote-unquote, eating more or less of something, wouldn't it make more sense to eat the right amount of each? And every time I explore all of the different calculations for the recommended amount of carbs, protein, or fat, most of the time, every calculation lands around 40 to 50% of total calories coming from carbs and 25 to 30% of calories coming from fat and protein. So, if you're ready for something wildly unpopular, I'm going to share one of my secrets. I don't think I've ever revealed this publicly. I do share it with my coaching clients, but it's one of my secrets that will inevitably rock the boat. If your body fat is above 30%, as per a DEXA scan, aim for a 40/30/30 macro distribution. This is 40% of your daily calories coming from carbohydrates, 30% of your daily calories coming from protein and fat each. And if your body fat percentage is below 30%, you get to increase your carbohydrates to 50%, and get 25% of your daily calories coming from protein and fats. So, in other words, if your body fat is higher—regardless of your body weight—you can eat a little less protein.

But in general, I do not coach anybody to go below 40% of daily calories coming from proteins. So, if you love my message and you want to work with me, but you are committed to a low-carb lifestyle, I am definitely not the coach for you. And if you are struggling and you've been eating low-carb and not reaching your goal, this might be a hint. And before you speak up, or before you disagree with me, let me say this: this works every single time for my clients. When a client follows my strategy to a T, it works every single time. And it's the most comfortable, most sustainable, most realistic way of achieving a goal, but also living a life. One disclaimer is that this assumes you are strength training at least three times per week, and that you're generally active—as you should be.

And there you have it. Those are the best macros for getting lean, according to my experience coaching people for 30 years, looking at all of the research, and testing out a number of different strategies. So if you feel stuck, if you feel frustrated, if you feel like you've tried everything, I've been there and done that. So have my clients. Listen to this episode again, take some notes, and give it a whirl. The one thing that I always recommend is: implement a strategy and stick to it 100% for a full two weeks before you make any assumptions, before you make any judgments.

It takes about a full two weeks of consistent activity and behavior to really start to see progress. And remember, progress is not gonna show on the scale first. You want to be looking for all of the different signs of progress. And lastly, you might be tempted to think, "This all sounds great, but I can't do it myself." I promise you—you can. When you try out some of these strategies, and you give yourself two weeks to experiment, to refine your behaviors, and to just get into gear, I promise you'll see that you too can change your body, improve your muscle mass, reduce your body fat percentage, and improve your body composition in general so that you reduce your risk of disease, so that you feel better tomorrow, and so that you live into a bigger, brighter future ahead—so that you can stay in the game and out of the rocking chair. I hope you love this episode. If you did, please take a moment now to rate and review. Share your thoughts with me. Every review really helps me.

To grow this episode so that more women can hear the message, get healthier and live better and stay tuned for another brand new episode on Tuesday of next week. Stay strong, my friend.