In this episode we meet Nas, who works as a Staff Nurse at Leeds Teaching Hospitals NHS Trust. He is a Gay Pakistani Muslim and he has HIV. He uses the pronouns he/him

LINKS

You can find out more about HIV here

You can find out more about HIV and AIDS prevention on the following websites

• NHS
• Terrance Higgins Trust

You can find out more about working at Leeds Teaching Hospitals here

United Colours is an Under The Mast audio production. You can find out more about Under The Mast here

United Colours hosted by Caroline Verdon and Paul Carruthers

voices from the LGBT plus staff network at Leeds teaching hospitals NHS Trust.

Hello and welcome to episode four.

Thank you so much for joining us.

If you have missed any of our other episodes, don't panic.

You can go back and listen to them at any point.

Uh, but this week we speak to Nas . Now Nas is a staff nurse

at Leeds teaching hospital's NHS Trust, and he's also a gay man.

This episode resonates probably the most with me being a gay man.

Um, and NAZA's story I find really powerful.

And during our conversation, you know, I had to try and, and

hold back some emotions myself.

I think he's an incredible individual and, and I hope you

all enjoy listening to his story.

I put like a, it's like an nap on when I come to work.

Um, my uniform is like my armor in a way, and my sexuality and

me is not really important.

What is important in my patients, my patient experience and their

journey in my private life.

Yeah.

I like to be identified as a gay man, but in my professional life I'm

more kind of busy and about their needs and how can improve their

journey and the experience more than.

Uh, but if people do question, cause I do like to wear my, my rainbow badge.

I like to wear my rainbow lanyard.

You get people looking at you , and that, that's probably, I liked a

bit, like a bit of attention, sequel,

But you know, we're onto, we're onto episode four and again.

Another person that is very much, it's not about me.

My sexuality isn't about me.

I come to work for my patients.

Yeah, absolutely.

Because coming to work, my focus about others mm-hmm.

It's about what can we do for that per, for our patients.

And that's where I come from really.

Mm-hmm.

And I, I can completely understand why that is, because

you wouldn't enter that profession unless it was all about the patients.

Unless you had that kindness, that nurturing nature within yourselves.

But, . There's one thing about my identity and my sexuality.

It, it's not important in the workplace in that sense, but equally

it's quite a large part of us as individuals and and who we are.

And I've always been afforded the privilege of being able to

turn up to a workplace and just.

instantly just be able to be myself because I've never had, well, I would,

obviously, I've had to worry that people might be like, oh God, she's here again.

But I've never had to worry that people will be prejudiced towards

me or treat me any differently.

Um, and that isn't necessarily always the case.

, Nas: and I think with LT HT

within L T H T, personally myself, I feel safe in being me.

So therefore, I don't have to work as hard whilst in a very male istic

kind of vulnerable, uh, environment.

, I've always been on, tend to hooks.

So someone's gonna look at me one way and it just takes one

kind of glance and that's it.

you can't dis smart in a way cuz the, you had become a target.

Mm-hmm.

, I've had a heightened awareness in a, in certain environments.

Uh, but in this workplace I've been very lucky.

Everybody's embraced me as myself.

I didn't have to sound stupid to say that I'm gay.

I think for some people can work it out as by talking to me, you know?

But I tell that's Jess.

But in certain work environments I have been a fairly kind of aware of

how I approach and speak to people.

Here.

It's much more safer, I would say, and identity and sexuality at work, it's

never been important, but in different environment has been I, I have to be

more aware about myself and how I kind of speak to people, if that makes sense.

How draining that must be to be in a workplace where

you can't be yourself and for fear of.

Even attack, I guess.

Yes.

And I try to do my best, but there's always looking for that chink in

the armor where they can kind of

target you.

And you say, you know, you've always felt like you could be

yourself at lead teaching hospitals.

Do you think that's because.

Of the job role and the work, or do you think that's because of an

environment that's been cultivated?

I think it's the environment.

To be fair.

I've been force with my colleagues.

It has been relaxed.

It's been easy.

It's not been very difficult for me at all.

If you ask anybody at work, I'm, I'm.

Straightforward and honest.

Mm-hmm.

and whatever they want to ask.

And I'm happy to educate and enlighten people's thoughts of

about me and what I represent.

Probably I'm, I'm some kind of person.

Statisticians probably dream what I . Well, I represent Well, would you,

I mean, and it, you know, and it's great that you are happy to tell

your story and you hear on this podcast episode, that's what it's all about.

I wonder, you've sort of talked about, you know, Aesthetician's dream.

Um, I know because we, we've met before, but I mean, would you be able to talk a

little bit more about, I'll, I'll give

you the, I'll give you the headings, . So, yeah.

I, I'm gay, I am Pakistan, I'm Muslim, I'm hiv, and with all of

that, makes who I am and I'm not afraid to tell that to anybody.

My journey where I am today has not been quite easy, but with the tools

I've been give, given as, as a child and use that, I, I, I've been very

fortunate to have my faith and to have that my, my faith is personal to me.

And my faith is only that I'm only answerable to my God.

And that, uh, that has been.

Without that, I don't think I would've got to where I am today.

And that's been kind of my, the molecule little toolbox I would go into and

say, right, what do I need today?

My faith and my journey has been very important through that.

and you say it's, you know, it's, it's

not always been easy for you.

Did you realize you were gay at a young age?

Did you realize later?

Yeah, I

always had a kind of an affection and, uh, I was drawn to

men and that's who I, I, uh, kind of sexually was satisfied with.

So then coming out was not the easiest of journeys because by coming out.

Was seen as taboo because I'm from a very religious family and I was

disowned, uh, from a very young age.

I'm talking about.

You know, 15, 16.

So I had to bring myself up and I was, I've been homeless, I've been street

homeless, and, and when I do talk about my journey about being homeless

and having these experiences, wish I would never, uh, wish upon anyone.

Um, some people I've gone on to probably drink and drugs, I haven't.

I went into something completely different and again, I don't mind

sharing, but it's part of me.

I, I went into, um, let's say paid work.

I think you can work that one out and, and, um, yeah, and, and that's

only because I just to have a roof over my head to able to have a meal.

And that's what I did to survive.

And I would not be here today had I not.

Met the people, which are my guardian angels today that have, can go

to for more support and guidance.

When I was diagnosed with hiv, to me it was a relief and, and I've seen it,

sorry, as a, a long-term condition.

I didn't see it as a, like your headstone is written then in about

you gonna die in a few months.

I says, okay, if I have it, let's move on.

I can't really explain it.

It.

I had to just in, in inner drive.

Mm-hmm.

If I'm in a situation and just battle through it, I

just never, I never look back.

I just Okay.

Moving forward a survivor,

I mean, that's all I, that's all I hear when you're

talking, you're a real survivor.

I mean, I think.

I'm driven, but the thought of 15 and being homeless and my son is nearly 12,

I just can't imagine how, how scary that must have been, um, just because of your

sexuality.

My family didn't mince any words.

In about saying that's say even to the point I just send you to

somewhere to be cleansed or there's a demonn inside here that's say,

we need to get that out of here.

Uh, there's something the society's corrupted.

Yeah.

Well, like it's me, . Yeah.

That's the way.

And my family couldn't really register.

They couldn't really understand that.

Did

you know that this, that this was how your family were

going to react before you told them?

Yeah.

Uh, it was, um, yeah, it was, um, yeah, it was a scary moment.

And when you say that your faith is very personal to you, um, I

don't know enough about the Muslim faith.

Um, What does your faith say about homosexuality?

Uh, it's wrong that people of the same sex are not to lie in

the same bed together, and that it's basically just haram is wrong.

Um, that this mind is corrupted.

and I don't believe that it's me.

It's who I am to say God creates in his own image.

And if that, that's I am, then I'm not gonna change that.

I don't let those things get me down.

They're not important to me.

What is important is, Basically being good and able to help other people.

I think that's where my kind of mindset goes really.

How

, Paul Carruthers: how did you go from

staff nurse?

I mean, that's, uh, ex, well actually that's my second, uh, degree.

The first one's in council psychotherapy, so I might a very cool guy.

Um, A, and it was through him and from there to get my ology degree, this is

when I, um, got in my late teens, twenties and through his support and guidance.

And then when I worked in drug and alcohol within mental health for,

for a while, um, I then decided nurses got the cool jobs and, um,

, and that's before I got diagnos.

And got diagnosed in 2004, 26th of April, the date you never forget and . Um,

and from that day, fourth, I thought, you know, it's not a death sentence,

it's not an end of career, uh, moment.

You can actually.

Turn it around and bring it to a positive.

I think that's what I've done with myself.

How, how did not be for a and, and that's why I said the RD Angels in my life and

had I not met these people and what we sat here talking to them and they kept

me in the straight and narrow and able to go through my own counseling and my

own kind of psychotherapy in terms of just like understanding me as a person.

So you talk about your guardian angels?

Yes.

And a.

Um, I'm interested to know, were they LGBT plus?

Alan was Oh, those others one.

Okay.

Um, they were just people I just met through.

walks of life through Alan's friends, through support groups, not

necessarily sexuality, even, uh, being a Samaritan for a short while as well.

I've done many things.

I met wonderful people and, um, I've been very fortunate.

Okay.

I'm 90 to, from my family and to be true to myself.

I've sacrificed my culture, I've sacrificed my family.

Um, and I don't wanna say I'm alone or I'm on on my own.

I do find it.

Um, cause you like relationships and you, you try, you think, oh, this is going so

well with someone Broing the HIV bomb.

That's it.

It's, it's a, it's a, it's a game changer and nobody wants to know you're a lepar.

. Caroline Verdon: So about

documentary for the N H S on H I V.

Um, and I went into doing this documentary as the most ignorant person in the world.

I'd seen extenders.

Um, I knew what H I V was, um, and it was an absolute eye-opener.

I went into it thinking HIV is a death sentence, and then I.

, all of these 20 or 30 different people who completely proved that

that was not the case in, in any way.

And I remember one of them talking to me and saying,

well, it's a bit like diabetes.

You know, it's something that you have to manage, but you go on and

have a a life just like everybody else because there are medications

aren't there that you can take that.

Lower the viral load.

So you actually, you can't pass on h I v, you can't transmit it.

I've been quite proud of that, Caroline, I've been quite proud.

I am.

Um, you equals you.

I'm still on the same medication and, and I, I am undetectable

and which is transmittable.

How does it work with patients?

Um, obviously it's not something that you would, I I I mean I

presume it's not something you'd never have to declare to , you

know?

Well, that's an interesting one.

Cause they, they are precaution you need to take.

So if you are taking blood, blood, uh, double glove, they are set of precautions.

But I do tell my manager because I think they're managing me.

I'm my sickness, so therefore I think it's important for them to know, and

equally occupational health as well, they need to know about it as well.

I think for me it's important for them to know because it then safeguards

me and I know I'm being protected.

I think that's what it's about.

Should it be, and a different employer, I don't think they

would be as, as warming into it.

Well, we're lucky to

have you as a nurse.

So I've gone through, I mean, I'm sorry you've gone through some of the life

experiences that you've gone through, but I mean, you're an incredibly.

Positive person and talking about how it's made you who you are.

And I think that in turn has made you a fantastic nurse that probably has

great empathy to, to your patients.

Thank, thank you.

I think for me it was, um, I want to pass this kind of.

positivity to others.

Yeah.

I think the hardest bit is accepting yourself first and that

till you get across that hurdle.

For years I thought it's dirty.

I've got a dirty disease and it took me a long time.

I struggle with it, but it's like a long-term condition now.

It's part of me, it's my long-term condition.

Do you know what?

It's not the be on end all and that we need to speak up, especially.

, the kind of, uh, minority, uh, I represent and I don't think that's well advertised

or spoken much about in the community.

Cause it's, do not talk about it.

It does not happen.

Well actually it does.

Mm-hmm.

, I think we need to have that more open and kind of, uh, that open candor really with

people that say this is what it is and you need to be open and honest about it.

I'm not saying that it's easy, it's difficult.

You just gotta find that place or not find someone that you trust.

And not many people will find that one person, and it's something they may

want to keep with themselves to the rest of their life, and that's okay.

Yet it can manifest in different ways.

If you don't share it, yeah, you'll become male or things

will happen un unintentionally.

What can workplaces do to.

Not just be supportive because sometimes that's, that's not enough to just support.

We were saying when we spoke to Ellie in our last episode and she was talking

about how, um, you have to not just have a policy in place but be overly welcoming

so people know from the get-go that this is a space that is going to accept you.

Um, what does that look like for you?

I think if on an employer's perspective, a manager's perspective,

I've not had that much of a difficulty.

Di been interested.

to ask me questions.

I don't think they've had this kind of honesty before.

And, and they listened.

And I, and then when I spoke on a World AIDS Day, uh, with the

I C U and they asthma, a similar question for their patients.

What can they do more for their patients?

And I'm says, this is about listening, going back to basics again.

And it's about those people looking after people who have gender

and identity or status as mine.

Is those managers not to say, oh, I'll support when you need it.

Necessarily open, open dialogue and say, right, this is what you need as a trust.

What can we do to support your needs?

I was talking about the other day, about the BME side of things, and I

don't think that much is spoken about.

You do have a BME network and which I'm part of again, that bm, E L G B T.

Is there a need?

I don't know.

I don't know.

The stats are, I don't, that's, uh, required.

I don.

That's

really interesting, like whether or not there's room for a,

a multi minority network or something.

Yeah.

And because some, not in a bad way.

Yes.

It's nice to have a little lgbtq plus support group and a core group.

That's fantastic.

Learn ideas to see what other peoples are doing.

But yet there are certain things where it's difficult to express unless

somebody knows about it from your.

Background, they may not able to get it.

Cause when we, when our parents or our people that came from, from different

countries, they brought with them their kind of values, their cultures, their

beliefs to this country, which to the, the bigger population was very alien.

And now try to explain to someone who's not from that

background, it's very difficult.

So, which

is why I get it.

Yeah.

I really do get it.

Absolutely.

I think it's important.

Culture is important and, and culture.

And as you've, you know, eloquently talked about tonight, you know,

the, the impact that's had on you because of your sexuality.

Mm-hmm.

is something that I.

wouldn't have had to have thought about certainly from being white.

Um, so I think it is important that there sometimes is the cross cross

network.

I think that's really important.

That is just to even get it off the ground in terms of people say,

you know, I am struggling with this identity that I may have.

Am I thinking the right way?

What's happening?

And, and with Onika from a male perspective, And the expectations from a

male of a, of, of a certain background.

There's so much, much expectation that side to provide, to look

after, to bring a family.

And it's so difficult just to move away from that, that you are seeing,

that you are abandoning any family.

There's so much kind of that's captures in that kind of.

Culture, faith, tradition.

Mm-hmm.

that people will struggle and I couldn't live up to it and I

just was more true to myself.

And you know what?

That's all I could deal with was be honest to me.

Such a powerful story and so important to tell it

as well and, and to listen and.

He's a person who sees a hurdle and doesn't think, well,

that's the end of the road.

Instead just jumps it.

He's so inspirational and he's achieved so much in incredibly difficult

circumstances and it, it actually makes me really excited about,

oh, what's he gonna achieve next?

Yeah,

it's incredible.

I mean, when you start telling this story about becoming homeless, and I thinking to

myself, but you are here as a staff nurse, how did you get to the point of applying

for uni, getting through uni qualifying.

Getting to this point.

He's just, as you say, he's just overcome every hurdle and he's a real

inspiration to all communities that he talks about in this, in this episode.

Well, that is about all we have time for, not just in

today's episode, but for this series.

So we would like to say a huge thank you to our guests for sharing their lives with

us, uh, because I know that can't have been easy, but personally as well, I'm so

grateful because hearing these stories, It's really made me understand a lot more

and see how I can be a better support.

So I'm really grateful for that.

I have just learned so

much.

Yeah, me too.

I mean, you know, you started this as, as an ally.

I've started this as a somebody who's part of the L G B T community,

but I've learned so much and, and.

This series was supposed to be a conversation starter, and I really

do think that's what we've done.

Now, if anyone listening, working at leads teaching hospitals, NHS

Trust wanted to be a part of the staff network, how do they go about doing that?

Anyone that

wants to get involved will be very welcome to, um, all our

information is on the trust intranet pages and we've also got a Twitter

account, so you can find us on there, um, by search and lt, h t LGBT plus staff

Network.

And so that's it from us.

Thank you so much for listening.

Feel free to listen again, and if you do have any feedback, please do get in Touch.

United Colors hosted by Caroline Verden and Paul Carruthers.

United Colors is an audio production from Under The Mast