1. Redefining Neurodivergence in Finance:Neurodivergence includes ADHD, autism, dyslexia, and other ways of thinking outside the “typical” brain. Traditional personal finance guidance usually isn’t built for these experiences—so it’s time for new, more compassionate systems.
2. The VIBES Framework:Andrea’s 5-step approach—Vision, Intention, Baseline, Engineer, Streamline—centers self-acceptance, automation, and upfront decision-making to minimize overwhelm and maximize financial empowerment.
3. Eliminating Shame and Embracing Automation:Regular budgeting advice often causes guilt and decision fatigue. By automating savings, bill payments, and allocations for fun money, you can break negative cycles and focus energy where it matters.
4. Societal & Gender Differences:Women are often diagnosed later with neurodivergence and taught to overcompensate—masking symptoms and fueling perfectionism. Andrea’s approach emphasizes why it’s crucial to address these unique pressures.
5. Community and Support:You don’t have to be diagnosed as neurodivergent—or even a woman—to find value in Modern Lady Vibes. If traditional advice leaves you overwhelmed, Andrea’s inclusive, strengths-focused community and resources might be a game-changer.

Welcome to Don't Retire, Graduate, brought to you by BFG Financial Advisors. We're here to rethink what retirement really means to you so you can graduate into your next chapter of life with purpose and with passion. I'm your host, Eric Brotman, and in this, our 7th season, we'll be bringing you interviews with guests who will share their money stories with us every other Thursday. If you haven't already done so, please subscribe so you never miss an episode. Today, I'm pleased to be joined by Andrea Ewalefo. Andrea is the founder and CEO of Modern Lady Vibes, where she helps neurodivergent women break free from financial overwhelm by building systems that actually work with their unique brain function, not against it. Her signature 5-step Vibes framework prioritizes frequency over consistency and eliminates the shame spiral by replacing it with sustainable set-it-and-forget-it strategies that lead to real wealth. Andrea, welcome to Don't Retire, Graduate.

Thank you, Eric. So nice to be here. Thank you for having me.

Absolutely. So, so I think it's important for our audience to know where we met first, because I think that does tell part of the story behind the fact that we were friends immediately. Like, so Andrea and I met in a karaoke bar in Oregon because that's, as you do, uh, and we were at the same conference and I was trying not to embarrass myself on stage, whereas you have— you, you have a career. When I ask you what you want to be when you grow up, if you say pop star, I'm going to believe you. So let's start with that. Um, the truth is we, we immediately hit it off and I can't wait to hear your story. And, um, and I want to start with the fact that you were just featured in a CNBC article. Like, that's a big deal.

I mean, I, I don't know who you have to know to make that happen, or if you can put in a good word for me, but my gosh, what a great thing. Tell us about this.

Yes, I am so grateful and honored to have been featured in this article. Um, I had been attending— well, where we met, it was karaoke, and we were both attending FinCon in Oregon, um, which is how I came about being able to be a part of the CNBC article. I was, I interviewed while at FinCon just to talk about my company, what I do, which is predominantly helping neurodivergent women, you know, with work through their executive dysfunction in order to be able to come financially independent. And I was so grateful to be able to talk about my experience being a neurodivergent woman myself, as well as just kind of discussing some of the not so typical concepts that I have around financial independence and how to achieve it. Because a lot of what is explained and a lot of what is taught in the financial education space right now, it just, it just doesn't really work for people like me and the way my brain works.

All right. Well, we talked before we went on the air that you are a JD MBA, which is something I contemplated for about 4 minutes and then didn't perceive, didn't So we know you're wildly educated. I don't really know necessarily that everyone knows what neurodivergence is, and I'm asking for a friend, of course, but what does that mean? What does it mean to be neurodivergent?

Yes. So the term itself is making its way into mainstream conversation, but the concept or the people who fit the category are not new by any means. Neurodivergence just really represents an a group of people whose brain functions and thinks and operates differently than the societal norms. So the converse of a neurodivergent person is a neurotypical person. People with neurodivergence typically have different diagnoses like ADHD, autism, dyslexia, dyscalculia, you know, anything that probably would've required a little extra help and assistance while growing up in school, maybe some extra tutoring or alternative ways of learning. That is really what encompasses neurodivergence as a whole. And one piece of it that many people who are not neurodivergent don't understand is, and it's important to understand, is that what typically comes with it is executive dysfunction, which means that you know, our brains, we have about 12 different areas in which we function, whether it's, you know, our ability to be on time, our ability to, um, you know, uh, avoid being impulsive, um, uh, just having, you know, uh, regulating our emotions, right? Different things like that, uh, where the neurotypical person is just able to navigate through life and not even think about how their brain is processing these different areas. Where a neurodivergent person, it is a nonstop, like, conscious thought of how to stay on top of these different functions.

And when the dopamine is low, it's, it's not good for us. It's not.

Well, I can't promise that I'm going to give you a dopamine hit during the show today, but maybe you'll give one to the audience. Which is always helpful. Now, now, you know, you work with primarily women, but not exclusively, I presume. And you have what you call the VIBES framework for modern ladies. And I don't know that I qualify. I don't know if I'm divergent or typical. Typical doesn't sound like a nice thing to call someone, actually. So I don't know if I'm typical or divergent.

Executive dysfunction, when they say you have ED, that's what they mean, right? That's executive dysfunction. I'm, again, I'm asking for a friend.

Yeah.

Oh, okay. So let's talk about—

I don't know about for men.

Listen, I, I, I'm, you know, this is the worst episode ever. No, we're having fun. All right. So let's talk about the Vibes Framework because, you know, you're talking about going from zero to automated and doing retirement savings and starting to build wealth. And it sounds like for people where some of that executive functioning is a little more difficult, the more automated you make it, the better it's going to go because they don't have to consciously think about that decision on a regular basis. Am I, am I close? Is that sort of the, the, the gist of it?

Yes. Yes. That is 100%. So one of the things I talked about in, um, the CNBC article was how we have this concept called, um, spoons, right? So imagine that every day you woke up, you were given 100 spoons and every time you had to do a task, from literally getting out of bed to brushing your teeth, to making a major decision at work, um, to conflict resolution with a loved one, you had to give away some of your spoons. If you got to zero spoons midday, by the end of the day, you would be absolutely spent, right? Just no more energy, no more willpower to continue the day. And so this concept of spoons creates a visual for people to understand what it's like to operate through the day with executive dysfunction. Every time a decision has to be made, and yes, something as simple as brushing our teeth can take away a lot of energy because it's not something that ever— how do I want to explain this? For many of us, the simple tasks or the everyday tasks of life never become automated to our brain. It's always a conscious thing we have to do.

I always have to consciously get up and go brush my teeth. It's never going to just happen. And there's some days I wake up, I'm 42 years old, and there's days I wake up and I'm like, I don't want to, you know, I have to, like, fight my way through it. It's just not, it's not something that is automatic. And so my vibes, right, is all about how do we reduce the cognitive load? How do we eliminate as many decisions as possible, particularly in an area like our personal finances, which can just be so overwhelming and intimidating to begin with? How do we automate as much of that as possible so that anyone and everyone can achieve financial independence, even if they're having a bad day, even if their brain just does not want to do what they want it to do, you know, that shouldn't be a reason why you can't be good with your money.

Okay. So, so, you know, managing personal finances is now very similar in my mind to oral hygiene, which both of which are important. We want to make sure we do that. And I hope when you get up and don't want to do that, I hope you force yourself to do it. I think it's a healthy, healthy habit. Um, now, is there a difference between how, um, a neurodivergent woman or a neurodivergent man might approach or think about this? Is it, is it, um, is it really the same regardless of gender and you just happen to work with women, or is there a difference particularly where it comes to finance, where sometimes there's other baggage around gender issues? Is, is there a difference in, and why that framework is specific for women, or is that just your, your preference in some of the work you do?

Yeah, so I wouldn't necessarily go so far as to say that like neurodivergent men are different from neurodivergent women. What I would say is that society has very much treated us differently. It's a huge reason why women typically aren't even diagnosed with ADHD or autism until their mid to late 30s when men are typically caught in childhood. You know, the DSM-5, most studies throughout my lifetime has only ever studied men when trying to figure out, you know, what are the symptoms? How do you identify this? How, how do these different disorders present themselves? Right? And so what we're finding more recently is that people are beginning to study women and how these disorders represent and present in women, and we're seeing differences. So a perfect example is a lot of the reasons why ADHD is not recognized girls like it is in boys is because for most boys, and again, we're not going to assume or like extrapolate to the entire population, but for most boys, they will be antsy, they're running around, they, you know, can't focus or think straight, and they cause distractions in the classroom. It's a very obvious type of symptom that could lead someone to believe, oh, let's go get them evaluated. For most girls, however, It's more of an inattentive type of distraction. So they're daydreaming, they're doodling on their notebook, they just like blank out into space.

So you're, you're still sitting there quiet, not bothering anybody. The teacher is happy, so it's going to be less noticeable. On top of that, women are— we're typically taught from very young childhood to mature quickly, be responsible, look after others, you know, overperform, especially, you know, eldest daughter here, right? You've always got to just— you bring perfection from day one. And so a lot of times up until the point we hit our mid to late 30s, our— that anxiety or that overcompensation for perfectionism masks a lot of the executive dysfunction. And it's until a few decades go by that our bodies literally start to give out and we can't keep up that overcompensation, that masking, so to speak, that our world kind of just falls apart. We're like, what's going on? And then we get checked out and it's like, oh, you have ADHD. You were never treated. You never figured out how to work with the way your brain works.

Wow. Well, first of all, first of all, I am delighted to know I was not the only disruptive member of the class. I, I, I was never diagnosed with ADHD. I was just told I was H. And, and so I think that's something I just continue to live with, that it's fine. That, that's actually a very interesting thing, that, that women would be, uh, or girls in, in a classroom might be just as tuned out but not bothering anyone else, so they're sort of ignored or left alone or not, not even diagnosed, not even seen, whereas boys are bouncing off the wall, and therefore it's like, hey, timeout, you can't do that anymore, sport, let's, let's change this, you know. And, and that's a very interesting That's a very interesting thing. So let's shift this and really talk about personal finance and the ways in which you're helping women who are, who are, whether they're late diagnosed or I assume even if they're not diagnosed, but they're having some challenges with, with this, that you can help them.

I'm going to step into the role of modern lady momentarily and just sort of learn what this framework is and let you teach all of us what it is and I guess how powerful is.

Yeah, so, um, as far as, you know, what we're doing with Modern Lady Vibes, the community we're cultivating— and Eric, you brought up a really good point— you do not have to be diagnosed with anything. You do not have to even necessarily know you're part of the neurodivergent community to be a part of the Modern Lady Vibes community. It's really more so if you've been out there trying to figure out, you know, how do I get my finances in order? How do I achieve financial independence? And you've struggled with maintaining consistency. You always hear you've got to be consistent. And that is something that has always evaded you. If you are overwhelmed every time you try to open a browser tab or open a book and learn about this, it just becomes so daunting that you shut down and give up. If the way that financial education has been taught typically just does not resonate with you, then hopefully come check, you know, Modern Lady Vibes out, see if this is a type of community and this is the type of education that does work for you. Because that is really what my goal is here is to, you know, redefine what it means to achieve financial independence for women.

We're not coming from a place of shame. We're not focusing on how much we're spending. We're not focusing on all the things we're doing wrong. We're just acknowledging where we are. We're acknowledging what we're capable of doing, and then we're using the strengths we have to achieve our goal. So, Eric, I didn't know if you wanted me to go into the VIBES framework right now. I do.

I'm feeling vibes already. I want as many vibes as you can give me, and 5 sounds like the right number. 4 didn't sound sufficient and 6 felt excessive. So let's go with the 5 VIBES right now.

Yes. Okay. So VIBES is my 5-step framework that I personally implemented in order to be able to go from about $20,000 in my savings to over $100,000 in my retirement savings in a 3-year, 3 to 4-year period. Um, it's really about setting intentions and getting yourself mentally prepared in order to be able to stick to your goals, right? So the V in VIBES is for vision. For many people, when they want to achieve a goal, we're here, you know, it's the start of the new year, people make resolutions and it's always like, okay, yeah, I'm going to lose weight or I'm going to you know, um, run this marathon or achieve this goal, and they immediately start looking at, okay, what do I need to do to achieve it? And as we know, for many people who start resolutions, they end up falling off about 2 weeks, a month into their goal. And I really believe that a lot of that is because they didn't set their vision and they didn't understand their why. Um, when things get hard, when life gets tough, when distractions come, you have to be rooted in your why, in your purpose for achieving that goal so that you have the fortitude to keep pushing even through the hard times. So the V in VIBES is knowing your why and understanding the purpose.

And it could be something like, I want to be able to retire my parents. It could be, I want to be able to just retire by 50 and travel the entire world. Whatever it is that's motivating you to achieve financial independence, really sit in that and understand that so that anytime that impulsive buy shows up or, you know, that emergency happens and it kind of puts a ding in your emergency fund, instead of getting discouraged, you just pick yourself back up because you remember your why. The I in VIBES is for intention. So this is where we're going to set our goals. We know why we want to achieve things. Now we're going to lay out exactly what we want to achieve. And I use the SMART goals framework, you know, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

So we use SMART goals and we set goals across all of our different financial areas and even personal non-financial areas, right? Like if you want to get married and have children, that costs money. And so it's important to set a goal of, okay, what kind of finances do I want to have in place in order to be able to start having children or to be able to have my dream wedding, right? So there's non-financial goals that end up having a financial component to them as well. And so we set those goals.

So what you're saying, you're saying kids are expensive? Nobody told me that. Nobody, nobody told me that.

No one. No one told me. My pocketbook told me.

Oh, man. Yes. Having children is a huge decision, and financial is just the icing on the cake. But yes. All right. So what's the B?

100%. So the B in VIBES is baseline. So now that we know our why, we have set our goals, you now need to know where you're starting, right? You can't start training for a marathon and just start running 20 miles a day if you've never even gone for a mile walk. So you have to know exactly where you're starting with your finances. And that means just kind of taking an account of, you know, your past few months to a year of your bank statements, seeing what your typical spending looks like, looking at where your debt is, looking at what your current savings, both short-term and long-term, are looking like. Just getting that baseline understanding of where you're at so that we know how to get where you want to be. And then that's what leads us into the E of our VIBES framework, which is engineer. We begin to engineer our plan, right? I know in the financial education space, the word budget has kind of negative connotations, which is really sad.

Don't say it. That's the B word.

Don't use the B word on my show.

All right, go ahead.

I know, and it is unfortunate, which is why I try to stay away from it because of how people think of a budget as some constraining thing that keeps them from having fun. But have they never, you know, take time to think like, maybe a budget is really my, my like freedom pass, right? Like, You can budget in travel. You can budget in fun money. You can budget in whatever you want.

It's just not—

Let's stop saying that. I'm gonna twitch.

I know, I know. It's like, I want, I want—

You've made me uncomfortable.

I wanna dismantle the negative connotations around that word. And so that's why I use the word engineering. You know, we're engineering our game. Yes. And we're simply saying, hey, this is my money. I work hard for it every single month that comes in and every single month it seems to go out. I want to make sure I know where it's going. Right.

And I want to prioritize the things that matter to me first. So let's prioritize future self by putting money into retirement. Let's prioritize, um, our fun and our life experiences. By putting into, you know, our short-term savings goals, our sinking funds for that trip or, um, gifts for Christmas and things like that. You know, then we can get to the rent and the mortgage and the bills and the blah, blah, blah, you know, all the not so fun stuff, but by engineering our game plan and really taking time to determine exactly where we want all of our money to go, that's going to free us up to be able to spend how we want. And one thing that is different that I really focus on with my modern ladies is that I do not allocate every single penny to something. Okay, that's like typically called the zero-based budget. And I think that I've, and as someone, I followed a zero-based budget for a very long time.

And so I've learned that for my brain, for people like me, it is not ideal because it can just feel like you really are trapped in this, the B word, right? You're trapped in the budget. And if you go a penny over, if you spent $42 in one area that you only meant to spend $40, it's like you can begin to start to beat yourself up. And so we don't want that. We don't want shame. We don't want guilt. Um, and there's no need for that either. If you have already allocated your money to the important things, you've allocated to savings, you've allocated to your bills, you've allocated to your food so that you make sure you got— you can eat right. You've taken care of all your basics.

Then the rest of that should just be spend it on whatever you want. It should just be free. For you to enjoy life how you so fit. And so I really focus on just engineering the game plan for what is prioritized, and then we leave that extra for however you want to spend it. And so that's what leads to the S of VIBES, which is we're going to streamline the process by automating as much as possible, right? You can automate money from your account to go straight into your 401(k) or your Roth or traditional IRA. You can automate into your emergency fund. If you have a high-yield savings account, which you should have a high-yield savings account for your emergency fund, you can automate most, if not all of your bills, right? And you can even automate food if you have a subscription service, or maybe you've got like a set meal plan. You can get that delivered every month, right? There's ways to automate as much as possible of the, the, the things that take priority that you need to spend money on, and then everything else can just be spent how you want to.

So that is the concept of the V.I.D.E.S. framework. It's automation, it's leaving room for fun, it's just getting rid of as many decisions that have to be made as possible because we've already front-loaded the work, we front-loaded the decisions, and And the automation, and now we can set it and forget it.

Okay. All right. Uh, Andrea, here, here's the thing. I, as a financial advisor, first and foremost, I agree with all of this entirely, literally chapter and verse. Um, and, and, and I think it's really good stuff. So I, I think, uh, I feel more like a modern lady than I expected to half an hour ago or when I woke up this morning just by, by knowing this and having this. Um, I think the visioning, the why does matter the most. Like, why do you want this? And trying to prioritize, you know, what are the most important things? And then SMART goals, for anyone who doesn't know, that's specific, measurable, actionable, repeatable, and time-sensitive.

Is that right?

Yeah, that sounds about right. Yes.

Right. I think I'm on to something. Maybe that's not the R. Maybe it's not repeatable.

I know, you've thrown me off now.

Well, listen, I'm just here to challenge all of your assertions. But no, I think, I think setting goals is obviously part of the financial planning process, no matter, no matter what stage, the baseline, that starting point, you know, we sort of call that inventory and transparency is important. So if you're, if you're in a marriage or a relationship where you're, where you're sharing financial, whether it's because you're sharing rent or sharing bills or because you have children together or whatever that looks like, I think being incredibly transparent and honest, not only with your partner but with yourself, is super important. You know, I sort of call that the "you are here" sticker on a mall kiosk because I have no spatial ability. The XY chromosome eliminates spatial skills, so I can't find my way out of a mall any more than I can find my way out of a casino. Not that I would ever go to one of those as a financial advisor, but, you know, I think that's the— no, no, I would never. All right. So that's the "you are here" sticker.

Like you have to be honest. Yeah, you're starting. I love the engineering. I do think that in order to figure out— you've already figured out your why, you've got your goals, you know where you want to go. Now you know where you are. You can start building that path, engineering that.

Yes.

I think of budgets a little bit like diets. I think nutrition is important, like cash flow is important. I think diets are restrictive, just like budgets are restrictive, you know, and we teach people to pay themselves first, which is to put money in that 401(k) or savings or other things before you do other things. And then the automation is critical. There's nothing— and not just for neurodivergent, for people who are— who are— yeah, I'm going to call somebody typical now, but for people who are neurotypical, neurotypical, I feel very average.

The names, Eric.

I feel very average. You're making me feel very, very like a C student. All right. So, but, but the automation matters because even if you're not struggling with with getting it done, there's the psychological torture. If you were to put money in your 401(k) every paycheck and you were to decide every 2 weeks or whatever how much you wanted to put in, first of all, that would be a process and a calculation and manual work. But secondly, you'd be— there's a tendency to say, well, you know, this was a tough week on Wall Street. Do I want to do it? Is it a good time? Should I do it? Whereas just automating that process creates enormous abundance without the torture. So I, I actually think I have more vibes than I, than I knew I had, which is pretty exciting.

You do.

And, and I think it's interesting, it's interesting that, that men and women, we certainly have different, um, we certainly have different experiences with money growing up, I think, a lot of times. And we have different experiences with education growing up. And of course, there's almost no financial education growing up. You know, we learn from our parents sort of. They don't teach us. We just watch them not do it right or fight about money or have issues related to that. So I think this is really, really great. I want to ask, I want to ask how, how, how you utilize this.

How do people engage you? What is the, what is the process? Because you're not a financial advisor, correct?

Right, right. Former, former financial advisor in the past.

But a reformed financial advisor. A recovering financial advisor?

No, I, I was a financial advisor pre— see, now I'm gonna date myself, but I already gave you my age earlier.

Uh, you did.

Pre-housing crisis. Pre-housing crisis. I was a financial advisor. So the, the housing buzz kind of just depleted the whole market and that sent me on another path. But I came, you know, the reason Modern Lady Vibes is back and what it's doing and why it exists today is because I never lost that love of educating people, of helping people achieve their financial goals. And, you know, I, I learned that I don't need to be doing this from like my 9 to 5 in order to be able to help people. And it's all about really empowering individuals to know that they can take charge of their finances and they don't need a financial advisor really to be able to do these things. Everything is available.

So, well, yeah.

And the reality is, the reality is that nothing that financial advisors do, and I'm saying this as a career financial advisor, nothing we do can't be done yourself. It is not. We are not neurosurgeons.

Right.

People can do it. What tends to happen, though, is they don't or they don't want to, you know, or they say, you know what, this is something I want to outsource. Like, at the end of the day, there's lots of things I could do that I choose not to do. I could mow my own lawn., but that's not how I choose to spend Saturday. You, you know, right. You make choices and you, you have accountability partners. You know, I liken a financial advisor to a trainer at the gym.

You know, if I have a— I'm literally going to say the exact same thing.

Yes. I know how to do sit-ups and push-ups. They're not always pretty, but I know how to do 'em. But I might not unless someone's saying, give me 20 or else. And so the accountability of that I think does matter. So I, so before, before I let you go, I gotta ask you one really important question because no one comes on this show and leaves totally unscathed. And so what do you want to be when you grow up?

Huh? Honestly, Eric, I want to be retired.

So you want to be retired?

Okay. I want to be retired.

Yes. What does that mean?

What does that mean though? Okay. When I was a little girl, I wanted to be an artist. I wanted to be an actress. I wanted, like, I wanted to be a creative and, you know, you grow up and people look at you and they say, you can't do that. There's no money in that. Go get a real job. Go, you know, and so you fall in line and you just start to do the things that society says you should do. And I've always been so envious of people who just said, no, I'm still going to follow my path.

I'm still going to be a creative. And so for me, I want to be retired so I can get back to that young girl. I can get back to the joys and the loves that I had where I could just paint all day and I can, you know, go karaoke and I can do the things that I want to do and not feel constrained to, well, gotta go make that money, gotta go, you know, truck and do the things that I have to do because society says so.

Well, first of all, it sounds like either someone else or you have should on yourself, which shoulding on yourself is not great. It's not. Don't do that anymore. But can't you integrate some of those joyful things into your world now? Yes.

Can you do it? I'm, I'm trying right now. Remember though, being neurodivergent, it's, there's, there's a, you got to be careful because if I take on too many things, something's gonna fall, right? And so you get hyperfixated on on stuff. I do have my little joys. Like, I keep karaoke in my life. I think for me, that's probably the one way that I've made sure I still have a creative outlet. It's something that I can just— when I want it, I can go and I can do it, and it's a set amount of time, and then I come home and I'm back to whatever life is, right? But if I started buying a bunch of canvases and paint and they were just all around the house, who knows? Maybe I'd like forget to go to work on Monday because I'm too busy painting.

That's not usually good for the bottom line. No, no, not at all. Although now we've come full circle because the only reason we know each other is because we both love karaoke. It is karaoke circles around all of us. I mean, I was just trying to hold my own. Going after you is no fun. It's unfair. No one should have to do it.

How can folks get in touch with you if they want to learn more about Modern Lady Vibes?

Yes. Well, um, you are so kind to show my website in the beginning. If you think you may be neurodivergent or you feel like some of the things we spoke about, uh, today with the executive functioning or dysfunction might be speaking to you, then hop on the website and sign up to take my free executive functioning skills assessment. And you can learn about the 12 different areas of function and where you might, where your strengths are and where your weaknesses are. You can also join us over on Instagram. We've got a nice little community going there and on YouTube as well. All social media accounts are @modernladyvibes, so very easy to find. But those would be the best places to find me.

I love it. I know you're doing good work. I know you're— I am— I can only imagine that the community is a really welcoming, warm, supportive one. Andrea, thanks for doing this. It is so nice to see you again, and I want to sing with you again. So I don't know how to do that geographically, but, but you're, you know, I think if, if, if we could harmonize, I think the world would be a better place. And let's, let's try and do that at some point. Thanks for being here.

This was wonderful. I love Eric. Thank you so much. We'll pick a song next FinCon. We'll make sure we do a duet together.

Whether it's there or somewhere, you're on. It's a, I'm holding, I'm holding you to that. I'd like to thank everyone for watching and listening today. If you enjoy our show, please share it with family and friends so they can join you on your journey to financial freedom. We'll be back in 2 weeks with another engaging guest. And in the meantime, next Thursday, be sure to check out BFG Financial Advisors webinar series, Diary of a Financial Advisor, which you can find at bfguniversity.com. For now, this is your host, Eric Brotman, reminding you, don't retire, graduate.

Securities offered through Kestra Investment Services, LLC, Kestra IS, member FINRA/SIPC. Investment advisory services offered through Kestra Advisory Services, LLC, Kestra AS, an affiliate of Kestra IS. Kestra IS or Kestra AS are not affiliated with Brotman Financial or any other entity discussed.