In this follow-up episode, business owner and mom Kat Eddy returns to chat with host Emily Hessney Lynch about the reality of life with two under two. We play back some clips from our first interview about her expectations for two under two throughout this conversation; it's definitely worth listening to part 1 if you haven't yet, but you can totally listen to part 2 as a standalone episode!

We dive into Kat's experience with postpartum anxiety, crying at Wegmans (apparently now a theme on this podcast), getting formula through WIC, applying for government assistance for childcare, the sleep struggles of the newborn era, and the upsides of returning to work after having a baby.

Check out Kat's business, Katboocha, online (they ship nationwide) or on Railroad Street in Rochester! And find Emily on Instagram at @servemethesky.

This is a production of the Lunchador Podcast Network. Our logo was created by Tenderchomps Art.

Mentioned in this episode:

Joe Bean Coffee - Coffee that Lifts Everyone

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Behind the Glass

Behind the Glass Gallery podcast is a monthly talk with the current month's BTG Roster. Artists are interviewed about their submissions and we dive deep into their process, inspiration and thought process centralized around their artwork in the Behind the Glass Gallery located in the heart of Downtown Rochester NY.

Murphys Rank The World

Meghan, Skye and Tim know you have a lot of choices in life. That's why they're undertaking the herculean task of ranking the world! Join the siblings Murphy as they rank everything from sandwiches to cryptids in their neverending quest to help you find the best. Find it where you get your podcasts!

They made a feelings collage. It says, "how am I feeling today?" Hers were "sad, angry, tired."

Is she a grown up?!

calm and happy.

Okay.

But I'm like, oh my God, am I torturing my daughter?

Like, talk about contradictory feelings.

I know, it was hilarious.

Hello and welcome to It's a Lot, podcast about things that are a lot. On this show we have honest conversations about the highs and lows of social media, parenthood and more. When it comes to complex topics, online discourse can lack nuance and empathy. That's why we're leaning into deep conversations, making space for conflicting, messy feelings and keeping it real about how we feel.

We could all use a little more of that sometimes. I'm your host Emily Hessney Lynch and today I'm so excited to have a past guest back for a follow up episode this summer.

I talked to mom and business owner Kat Eddy about her expectations for having two kids under two. She had her second in July and now it's October somehow. And Kat is back to talk about what the reality has been like. She's already in the home stretch of two under two and her oldest is going to be two really soon. I'm excited to catch up and hear how things have been going. Welcome back, Kat.

Thank you for having me.

How is it going? I want to hear just the high level overview before we play back some clips and react.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I made it to the other side. I've got both now, so I don't know. It's...I am for sure very much in the throes of newborn life right now. It's been good though. It's been really good. And she's wonderful.

Will you share her name and like the story of the name? I know you hadn't decided when we last talked for the show.

Yes. So we did end up going with the name Winona. Her name is Winona Sterling. And you know, it was kind of one of those things where it was just a feeling we were between two names and when she came out, she just had this kind of like wild black curly hair and I was like, "she's Winona." So...yeah.

I love that. Such a pretty name.

Thank you. My daughter says, "is it Nona? Is it Nona?" So cute.

Awww. Have you seen any glimmers of her personality yet or is it too, like newborn potato still?

Yeah. She smiled early, which is a crazy 180 from Sylvie who is like complete stoneface, which is so funny. Like, it's so funny. I love her. She's just deadpan constantly. But Winona, she's just a big old cheese ball. She lights up a room with her smile.

I was saying before we started recording, she's got like a zillion chins, so her, like, smile is huge. Her chins are aplenty. She is just. And then she's. She's a sweet little talker. I mean, you know, obviously she's a baby, so. But it's just her little coos are just so happy. So that's really fun.

I love all those sounds they make at the beginning, other than the screaming, crying sounds.

Yeah, there's that and then there's two doing it, trying to one up each other. So, you know, there's that.

overstimulating to be sure.

Oh, yeah.

Well, let's hear our first clip and then we'll talk about it.

Okay.

It all seems great and I have no idea really what I'm in for.

That was it. I have no idea really what I'm in for.

What was surprising then in this first part?

let me think, because I feel like I have anticipated the difficulty of it. Here's something that's different from this time versus last time. And, you know, it's your podcast, so we get personal on it, I suppose. But I definitely did have quite a bit more PPA this time. Postpartum anxiety or depression, I don't know. I did the little forms, the depression side of things didn't like, come out to being that many numbers. For anyone who doesn't know what I'm talking about, they like make you rank on a scale of one to whatever and then you add it all up.

And so on the depression one, it wasn't like that much, but the anxiety one, it was like, yeah, I'm like constantly worried, constantly crying. So that was a bit more this time around.

And there's definitely some different factors, both like globally, family, personally, you know, but all of that kind of took a little bit more of a toll. And I got, I've got Sylvie, my daughter, who's all that to say is it's a little bit different this time because I have this little tiny pill I take at night and it just lifts a little bit off of me.

That's almost surprising for me to hear you say since you had like the preeclampsia and all those issues with Sylvie's birth and like stress from your work too. So I'm surprised. But I'm glad you got some medication and some help and support, it sounds like.

Yes. And I will say that, like, looking back on things, I think it definitely could have helped me then. And I'm not saying, like, nobody offered it or anything. I think most people's reaction before going on something like, what? I'm on Zoloft. It's like, okay, yeah, it's, it's, it's hard, but I'll get through it. Like, you know, I feel like a lot of people just try to, like, downplay it, me included.

And so this time just felt a little different because I literally was just crying to everybody, and I felt a little bit more of the need to have my shit under control a little bit more, because I have, like, a fully formed kid. I. I don't have, like, not just the little baby where I can be like, okay, I can hide from the world.

Like, I actually have to do something with my other daughter because she's a person and she needs stimulation and she needs to be. And then I can't just be, like, crying to the checkout person at Wegmans.

I mean, you can. Maybe they'd be empathetic.

I can. I have.

Yeah.

But I'd rather not.

That sounds really hard.

Yeah. No, it. Well, yes and no. It was what it was.

I wonder sometimes about the line between, like, regular anxiety and postpartum anxiety, because I don't know if I ever was truly diagnosed with it, but I had plenty to be anxious about. But I kept saying, "oh, my anxieties are all so valid because we have all this stuff going on."

I mean, they can be valid and all. You can also still, like, need help with it. Yeah, I don't know. I...it's hard because nobody ever wants to be, like, feeling like someone's pushing this on them. And believe me, like, my mom has tried to push it on me in the past, and I'm always like, "can you believe she would suggest I need this?!" You know?

But I don't know, it was just, like, kind of a big load off, too, to just be like, "all right, well, I'm, I'm just going to take this thing and see what happens." And it actually really solved the crying thing, like, right away.

Wow. Did you have, like, a therapist in place that helped you get that, or. It was through a.

It was my OBGYN. I went to my. You know, after you have a baby, like, about six weeks afterwards, you go for your postpartum visit.

And I walked in and she was like, "okay, let's get your height and weight." And I was just like, "okay." Just crying. And she was like, "it's gonna be okay. We'll do this we'll go in and we'll talk."

And I'm like, "all right, sounds good."

Well, let's go to our next clip.

Sure.

What are you expecting will be really hard about having two under two?

I don't know, like, everything, I guess?! I

I would say that is very true. My expectations became the reality. Yes.

What kind of specific things have been hard? You mentioned some of the crying at the same time stuff, and you were crying. So it's three crying humans, right?

Right. Like, they're all crying all day, and then by the end of the day, I'm crying. My husband's like, "I literally don't have the bandwidth for you to be crying too." Shout out to him. Being so patient and wonderful that I would say, like, the crying situation is, like, definitely the extreme hard thing.

But, like, in general, most of your everyday life is a lot harder because you have to juggle both kids and they need different things. I think it's going to even out, though, here, like, kind of soonish, too.

Like, I think Sylvie's really starting to realize that when known as a person, she smiles and she interacts with her. And, you know, at first, I feel like Sylvie was just kind of like, "okay, like, but it's still my world. Right?"

Like, but now I feel like she kind of acknowledges her. She likes to touch her nose, mouth, ears, and eyes and label those things. Sometimes when she's in the bouncer, she likes to rock her.

So anyways, all I'm trying to say is, like, I think it'll become less of, like, taking care of, like, two different islands, and they'll become, like, one island soon.

But figuring out the schedule between me and my husband and, like, who's watching who, when, and even the littlest things of, like, when are we going to the grocery store, who's doing the laundry? Like, any of that is sort of. We're still in that stage of where it's so new that it's a discussion. And so that's, like, exhausting and feels somewhat like, judgy or accusatory until we have a routine of it all. And it doesn't need to be, like, spoken.

It is such a tough adjustment, even with us having one kid. Like, it's, "oh, I would love to go walk the dogs, and you can go to Wegmans, but someone has to be in the house because he's napping." Like, we can't leave him there.

Right.

And it's just so hard to figure out how you're divvying everything up.

Right?

Yeah.

So Sylvie I mean, I don't mean to, like, keep talking, but okay. It is a podcast.

That's what we're here for! Yapping.

She did start daycare, and that has alleviated some of that because, like, yes, they both nap, and it's, like, slightly different times. I feel like with Sylvie was so easy to be like, okay, yeah, she naps from this time to this time, like, and she's a good sleeper. Winona.

No, no, no, no, no. Girl doesn't like to sleep very long. She just wants to party, you know, she's happy, and she wants you to know it. And I haven't been as good about, like, putting her down at certain times because I don't know what the f time it is. Are you kidding me? Like, I really don't know. Like, how did it get to this?

They sleep so much at that age or they're supposed to.

Well, she slept for, like, a week straight, like, when she was born. Like, I swear to God, I didn't see your eyes for days.

Yeah, all our pictures from the first month are just, like, his eyes are totally closed. He's out.

Yes, yes. But no, now she's awake. She's awake. So, yeah, Anyways, I was gonna say Sylvie's in daycare, so that's helpful, because then she's. I know she's there, she's having a good time. Winona. I can just kind of plop her in the car seat. We can go and do stuff or whatever.

You know, it's actually when we're just home, no plans is, like, the hardest because then she's, you know, easy to cry, kind of almost.

But I wanted to hear more about the childcare situation because we had talked offline about that. So I'm curious how the daycare situation has been and if you've heard anything about, like, assistance and stuff?

Yeah, yeah. Okay. So basically, we started her at a daycare that's very near where we live, which is wonderful. It's, like, always been my dream to, like, walk her to the daycare, and, and it's happening, and I love it. And she's got a little classroom with a couple other kids.

She's super shy in general when she meets new people, so I think she's finally starting to open up. But the little kids love her. They all come over to her, so this makes me feel happy. At first, it was tough to let her go there.

I mean, I think I was more open to it than my husband, but part of that's just because I had to do a crap ton of work to get her in. Like regardless of like applying for government assistance to help pay for it, they need like the daycare.

Like there's a wait list and then you have to act on it and then you have to like download stuff and fill out forms and pay a deposit and be do. And then on top of it I'm trying to apply for government assistance because do we qualify for it? So, and why not? It's very expensive.

It's over $400 a week to send her to this. So I am going to try to do that. And if that's cringe for anybody, sorry, but that's what we're, we're doing. And because I am self employed, I own my own business, I have to supply all of these financials that are...it's like a worksheet that they give you that's broken down to all these different categories that some of them apply to things that I've purchased versus not, but I don't know. And then there's like an other section but it's very like not conducive to. What's silly is like, why can't I just submit my taxes, you know?

That would be so much easier. The taxes are hard enough to begin with.

Literally, like I actually pay somebody money to do this and here I am asking for money. So can you like not make me poor just doing this? poorer? I don't know. Anyways, the long and the short of it is that I've applied and I haven't heard back. They wanted more information.

They wanted me to bring by something to like prove that my last name changed and they wanted a Sylvie's birth certificate. So I did all that and like I went there and like gave it to them and they were like, we'll let you know in 7-10 days.

That was after 7-10 days. And so thus far we have paid for like a full month of daycare, which I kind of expected at least a couple weeks. But it's, you know, and now with, you know, this isn't going to be totally evergreen, but like the government. Yeah, this shutdown, I don't really know, like it's been on my mind to reach out like tomorrow and be like, "hey, did, do you?...?" Because sometimes they'll do this, they'll just send you a rejection letter and be like, "you didn't respond to us during this time." And. But they're supposed to reach out to you. So I just want to like be like, "I am still here."

This is why it's wild to me that people think everyone's, like, scamming welfare and getting government assistance when they shouldn't be. It's so fucking hard to get it in the first place. Like, it's not an easy task at all. And it's people who genuinely need it. And it's a huge amount of work to get it. it is wild.

I don't feel guilty about it.

No, I don't think you should.

I really don't. And, like, just before coming here, you know, yeah, they. They're saying that SNAP and WIC, we don't have SNAP, but, you know, potentially we probably could get it. I just don't feel like going through it, to be honest. Just to be denied. But we do have WIC, which goes off your taxes, believe it or not.

And I just posted on the, on my Instagram and I was like, "I don't really care who knows it, but we get nine cans of formula every month." And this girl does one can every 2-3 days. They're $21. That doesn't get us through the whole month. So. And I'm like, I don't really care who knows, because I paid like, thousands in taxes, like, like tens of thousands. So I will take the formula.

Now I'm thinking I should have applied for our formula last year because that was expensive.

It's so crazy. Yes, yes, yes.

So I do want to get back to our clips, but you mentioned the formula, so I want to hear about how breastfeeding was going too.

I was so hopeful. I was so hopeful. Is there a clip to say?

I don't have a clip about it. But you said the milk was going to come in right away.

Wasn't it? Wasn't it? It actually did kind of, though. So maybe it's genetics. I don't think I'm like a big overproducer. I'm not even like an enough, I'm not even enough. But it's also became one of those things where Winona, she just didn't latch. So if she had latched, perhaps our, obviously our journey would be different on that. But I was pumping. And just with the fact that there's so little opportunity in the day to do anything at all. Anything at all. I tried my best.

I mean, I was probably pumping, like, you know, at times, 6 times a day. That was really hard to keep up with. 5 times a day and get down to, like, 4 times a day. And then I'm like, okay, well, I'm gonna pump before bed and After I wake up. And then, you know, before you know it, here we are. I don't know.

Pumping is brutal. I don't remember if I ever did more than four times a day, but I would do really long sessions to make up for doing so few sessions. And it was miserable.

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I even have, like, the wearable ones too. It's just so.

You seem to get less milk with those, I think.

I think it kind of depends on. For me, I don't get that much to begin with, so I'm like, okay, it's roughly the same, but at the same time, like, ugh. I. Is this TMI? I shared my wearable prompts with one of my husband's family members who's on her fourth kid. Her kids all get plenty of breast milk. She's doing fabulous. I'm happy for her.

But she was taking one of her older daughter and she didn't bring anything to pump with. And I'm like, dude, come over to my house. They were visiting, and I was like, I'll sanitize this. You can use it. I was so jealous when she took those out. It's like, come on.

Yeah, it's just disheartening. And then people will sell you all the teas and cookies and things to eat to optimize it. I'm just like, "curse you, capitalism!" I just want to, like, feed my child.

Yeah.

Buy a bunch of shit to make it easier when it will not be easier.

I know. And then there's like, the medical professionals kind of being like, "oh, like, do you want a referral to this?" I'm like, the girl screams on my nipple. I don't know. I. I can't. I can't do it. Like, I'm, you know, mentally on the fringe already. We're just gonna do the best we can here.

Yeah, I'm glad you made that change, because it sounds like it's probably been gonna be a lot easier on your mental health.

Yeah.

I mean, when things are already hard.

Yeah. And she's. She's great. And she did get, you know, probably about three months worth. Ish.

Yeah. Whatever you do is great. Well, let's hear our next clip.

Okay.

You can't sit down. You have like, zero mental space for yourself. It's so exhausting in that way. I'm looking forward to it not being nearly as exhausting that way since I've done it before.

Mmm. Okay.

So is it not as exhausting cuz you did it before?

Well, in some ways, yes. And in some ways, no. But, like, I identify with myself from earlier, where there's no mental break. Kind of putting yourself last all the time. Yeah, I've been feeling that a lot lately. Like, it's very hard to sneak in the shower, sneak in the. You know, anything that's, like, for yourself. But there are definitely pluses to it being my second time around, you know, I'm not rewiring my brain. Not quite as, like, it's not quite a hard reset as it was with Sylvie, with your first kid.

And I have, like, the context clues to kind of figure out, like, what maybe needs to happen next, what is wrong. For instance, she's sailing through diaper sizes right now. Whereas I think if this were my first kid, I would still be, like, in ones. Being like, "why is she blowing out three times a day?" Right. So. But now we're in threes, and she blows out once every other day. I've got. Probably got to get 4s soon.

It's crazy how fast they move through those.

Dude, she is a chunk. I love her, but girl can eat.

Why don't we hear our next clip?

Will my relationship change with Sylvie? Yeah, well, of course. I think TBD on, like, how that really feels later. I don't really know. I'm expecting that our hearts grow.

My feelings for Sylvie?

Yeah. And your relationship with her, how it's changing since having a second boy.

We're very close. I felt a lot of guilt, like, right away, I think. I think Clayton felt guilty, like, the entire pregnancy. But I felt it right away when we brought her home that all I wanted to do was hold Sylvie. Like, I didn't really want to hold my newborn baby.

I did, obviously, but I was, like, really craving holding Sylvie and making sure she felt my love and making sure she understood how much I love her and that my bond is so strong with her. So we have a very, very strong bond and relationship.

And it only grows more every single day as she starts to become her own person and understand who she is, what her place is in our family, in the world. She's so funny. I love her. She's always. She doesn't make jokes. We don't really talk too much, but she does. She makes jokes. It's just. She's so funny.

They can be so expressive even before they have a lot of words.

I. Yes. And she's just. She's just a goofball, you know? Like, I just posted this video of her earlier on my Instagram of, like, her going up the stairs, and each step she's like, "ahhh." Because I think she thinks, like, she must hear us, like, moaning and groaning, but she's not really, like, tired. She's just, like, one step. She's step. "ahhhhh."

It's just, like, so silly.

Yeah, that's the kind of jokey she is.

That's really cute.

Yeah.

Well, why don't we take a quick break, and then we'll talk a little bit more about Sylvie and Winona after.

Sounds good.

All right, well, let's jump back in with another clip that is also about Sylvie.

I'm expecting her to, like, all of a sudden start really confidently going up and down the stairs by herself and, like, maybe even talking a lot. Honestly, if she doesn't have, like, a big developmental leap with that kind of thing, it's going to be exhausting.

These are so funny.

So developmental leap or...?

Oh, yeah, actually. I mean, yes, for sure. And she definitely is going up and down the stairs by herself. I mean, we don't like her to go by herself because we live in an extreme, extremely vertical house. And she does still need to be watched. She's not even two yet, but she's practicing the stairs quite a lot. The words are there, people. They're there.

Whether she says the whole word, I don't think so. But she knows what she's saying. I'm kind of knowing what she's saying. You know, she's really good with colors. She knows she has purple. Purple. She does say purple. Like, she would love your hair "pink," she says, but it's, like, not really pink. She's, like, "peeeeenk?" and then green. "Is it geen?"

Is it geen in like Ed Geen? Oh, my God. No, that's not. But is it geen? She used to say dao for cow, but now she says cow. So, I mean, like, she's. She's really getting there. And.

And she's really interacting, too. Like, today I had her on the counter while I was making dinner, and she loves to play with, like, whatever's there, and the dog treats her there.

And so I'm making dinner. I'm not really facing her, and I hear her say something like, "is it ZZ? Is it ZZ? Is it?" She always says, "is it? Is it something? Is it ZZ?"

And so I look over, and she's got a little treat in her hand she wants to give to ZZ so I'm like, "yes, you can give that to ZZ," our dog. I feel like we're very. We're getting there. And the daycare, I think, is definitely, you know, expedited. Some of that, which is good. It was kind of the point. It's kind of the point. I wanted her to start feeling like she could start to, to tell us what's going on.

It's so interesting watching them learn language. because we've got like a lot of one syllable words like you've mentioned. Like we're getting bir for bird and boo for book and mo for more. But not much more than that. Like bye bye is his main thing right now.

He does not differentiate hi and by. He says like bye bye to everything when they arrive or leave. He says bye bye to every skeleton in our neighborhood. It's like his favorite thing.

Yeah, he understands a lot more than he can say. It's crazy.

Yes. Yeah. Like he knows what you're saying. It's weird when they just come out with something new though too. Like she used to just say bye bye too, but now she'll say hi and then neither of those things are often at the right time. But you know, sometimes she'll just say "hi. Hi!" I think you'll find too that like one day it'll just kind of come out.

Yeah, I'm excited. It'll blow my mind, I'm sure.

It is so cute when they find their voice. She's really obsessed with her slide. Clayton got her a slide for the backyard, like one of those big plasticky ones. Her side, that's what we call it. "My side. Is it a side? Is it a side?"

You mentioned that she's like interacting with Winona a bit more. Is she enjoying being a big sister?

I think she's still trying to wrap her head around like her role there. But before we had Winona, I did get Sylvie like a couple of baby dolls and they had like bottles and stuff like that. So she likes her baby and she'll feed her baby and we would talk about that. And so now sometimes she'll like go and get the binky and give it to Winona, which is so sweet.

Like I said, she'll like sort of like bounce her in the bouncer a little bit. Or if Winona's crying a little bit sometimes she'll come over and put her head on her head. That's if she decides that she doesn't want to like one up the crying. So I think she is. A lot of that I think is because Winona has started to become more of like a person versus like a "what's that?"

Do you have loop earplugs?

Uh huh.

Yeah, I just got some. Recently it's been helping. Especially during dinner when things are a hot mess.

Okay. What do you think of them?

I like them. I think I have to get the settings just right, but...

there's settings? I have, like the lo fi ones.

I have like three settings for being able to filter more or less sound.

Really?

So the first time I used it, I filtered out too much sound and my husband was trying to talk to me and I was like, "what?" Totally clueless.

Deal with it.

Yeah. I was like, wow. I feel so much calmer inside because I don't hear like the barking dog and the screaming and the throwing and.

Right. Yeah. Yes.

Dinner is like my least favorite time of day.

Why is it so crazy at dinner? Just because everyone's hungry, I guess?

Yeah. And usually he's like throwing all of his food and one of our dogs hasn't eaten all day and will just bark for food.

Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. So that's intense.

Yeah. The barking would be hard for me.

Yeah, it's like the last straw.

It's a lot.

If she just ate at normal times, we'd be so much better.

Yeah. Okay. So this is your dog, though?

The one that doesn't eat, yeah.

yeah.

Hunger strike dog.

ZZ does love to be like, right up in Sylvie's business in the high chair. And she'll like. Her nose will be like just right there. And sometimes she'll get a little lick in or something.

Yeah. All three of them will like, clean his hands during meals.

Yeah.

Or he holds out a spoon and lets them lick it, then puts it back in his mouth immediately.

This is a thing.

Building the immune system.

It's fine. It's fine.

The least of my concerns.

Yes. But sometimes she is a little bit like, we'll steal a piece of bread right out of her hand and I'm just like, "dog."

He's been like running around with crackers lately and holding them out to Monty and like taunting them and then eating them and then holding them back. And then when Monty steals it, he's like, crying.

been there too.

I'm like, "you had this coming to you."

But it is so annoying when I. Cuz I do like to feed her, like especially lunch or something is some. Is not really a structured meal for us because it's. Her nap is weird and so we're not all sitting down.

So I like to like plop her on the ottoman or something like that and have the lunch just free there, not at a high chair. And that's like nose level for ZZ and she's just like on her so that does bother us. But it's, it's a struggle and you have to pick your battles a little bit. And you know, she's not aggressive at least, so there's that.

Good. We have to, we might have to try like a free range lunch like that. Because he eats lunch after his nap, but he naps till 3 o' clock sometimes. So it's like a 3:30 lunch.

Yeah, that's kind of like us too.

But then we don't eat dinner till like 7, 7:30. Then he goes to bed at like 9. Yeah, we're on a totally different schedule.

Yeah, right. Yeah. Her lunch is like pretzels and hummus. It's not like a meal really. I suppose. But that's working for her for now.

Always changing.

She gets a real meal at the daycare though they do provide meals so there's that. And they tell you in an app like what she's eaten and they all nap together. It's really cute.

I'm glad it's going so well.

I'm really happy with it. It's definitely given me a lot of like a feeling of not only freedom but just like I'm happy for her. I'm happy that she's there doing fun stuff. Like she does little art. They take the pictures of the art that she makes. Oh my God. The first thing she ever made there. They made a feelings collage. So hilarious.

It says, "how am I feeling today?" I think they give them stuff to paste it on. I'm not even sure what the options were that she could have chose, but hers were "sad, angry, tired."

Is she a grown up?!

calm and happy.

Okay.

So there was happy in there, but I'm like, oh my God, am I torturing my daughter?

Like talk about contradictory feelings!

I know. And they're all like with an emoji face of like showing what kind of emotion that is. I'm just like, oh my God, that's really funny. It was hilarious. And I still don't know if I feel like bad about it, but I'm just gonna choose to laugh about it.

Well, let's hear another clip from past Kat.

You kind of know somewhat of the timeline of things. Like how long are we gonna be sleepless?

Still in a sleepless era?

Yes. I know everyone was wondering, but I am not getting any sleep. So. Yes.

How often is she eating at this point? Ugh.

does she need a bottle every time then?

Yeah. And I'm just like, totally free. I'm sorry, but this is definitely second child thing. But, like, we just batch a thing of formula and we have a little mini fridge up in our bedroom, and we bring it up, and I just, like, sleepily fill the bottle to wherever I think is, like, good enough. I don't know. And then I bring the bottle back and put it in the fridge. If she hasn't finished it, like, I'm like, this is second child. We're fine.

I'm lucky, he would do room temperature. So he just shake it up and. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, they're cold.

Yeah.

Like, it's from the fridge, at least.

For now, you know, so rough in that early stage. And they have to eat so often. Like, I think it was close to when he was six months old that we were like, I cannot stand getting up for these night feeds anymore. Like, he has to drop the last night feed. He has to. And, like, the next day, he did.

Really? Okay.

Yeah. It was crazy. We were like, "we're gonna have a breakdown." And then he just was like, "okay, I'm done."

It's hard to remember at this point what was going on with Sylvie. I. I mean, I do know she slept through the night between five and six months. And so that is. I think my husband and I are both, like, clinging to that information. Like, we've got a long way to go. And she's three months old, so.

But you're halfway there then, right?

At least at, like, four months old, I might be able to, like, try the whole rice cereal thing. You know about that?

I think so, yeah.

I know. I feel like there's gonna be some angry people listening to this, but you guys can relax. I'm sure you're fine and lovely, lovely people and everyone is doing their best, but I'm gonna try it probably and see if...

he eventually would do, like, a much bigger bottle before bed. Like six or eight ounces before bedtime.

That's what we're doing is six. She's like.

She's a good eater!

15 pounds.

Yeah.

A 15 pound three month old. Can you imagine?!

She's got to be so cute.

She really is.

Let's hear another clip.

It gets tense with your partner, and I think a lot of that comes from just being like, depleted on every level.

Yep! Next! No, I'm just kidding.

Only as much as you're comfortable sharing.

No, we're good. I mean, it's, it's tough. It really is. And you lack the ability to have patience with your partner. They're the only other person that knows what you're going through.

Yet at the same time, it's very hard not to feel resentful constantly because I don't know why, really, you know, like, it's just tough and you're, and you feel like you're doing everything in your power to make sure all needs are met and you see the other one do one silly little thing for themselves and you just like, it's like you can't stop the thoughts from being like, wow, how dare you? When it's like, no, they should be able to. Everyone needs a break. If you're not needing a break. Yes, you are. Yes, you are. So, you know, and just.

It's fine. Oh, boy. I said it's fine. It's good. But we're definitely in the throes of it and luckily I do know that will come out of it and it'll be, it really will be fine. And I do remember this quite a lot from Sylvie. It's just very, very tough on your relation. The newborn stage is so tough on your relationship.

And perhaps there are some people out there where that doesn't happen to them. But I would say that I, you know...

it's probably like the Kardashians with full time nannies and live in chefs and cleaners.

Yeah. And then like, do you want that? Like, part of what makes it so great is the sense of feeling like, "yeah, I did that." I also don't have like five kids, you know, one every year or something like that. And in that case, it probably would be nice to have a house cleaner and somebody making my meals.

I feel like we all know on some level that being tit for tat in our relationships is like not a good move and not healthy. But sometimes in that early stage, it's so hard to not be like, "well, I did this, this and this," and like, "you didn't do this."

Or just all the things that have to get done and feels like there's no time for anything. But all those tasks!

Wanting to share the load I think is really important. And part of sharing the load is communicating about how you're going to do that. And inherently communicating about how you're going to share the load does sound a little tit for tat.

"Well, I'm gonna do this and this and this. So can you do that and that?" Then all of a sudden the problem is

I swear I'm not being passive aggressive!

Yeah, exactly. It's like, it's, it's. And you know, when you have like zero ability to have patience or honestly even, it gets hard to see the other person sometimes in a kind way. That's I think where it gets like a little bit dangerous and you want to just.

I mean, for us at least that's when we come together and say like, okay, we really need to chat and be like, be on the same page here. And I'm very grateful that I have like somebody like Clayton, my husband, who's able to like meet me there too. You know what I mean? Instead of just. He could potentially be gaslighting me. A lot of partners are not nearly as supportive and like. And he's just such a good father too, so.

Well, that is a perfect segue to our last clip. Let's hear that.

I guess I do have a slight expectation that my husband will take a little bit more of the lead with Sylvie because he won't necessarily be like tethered to her in the same way that I will be with our new baby. I know he's fine with that.

I think that way especially like initially, even though I feel like we are still like initially right now, but like really within like the first month or so for sure. There's so much going on for me, not only with figuring out breastfeeding and, and being with your newborn, but I did get a C section again.

And there's just healing that goes on you. Whether you have a C section or not, there's just healing that goes on.

And so you're not able to like lift a little kid and barely even able to lift an eight pound baby. So yes, that was the case. But I think now our responsibilities are pretty even with both girls. But at first, for sure.

And that was part of, I think, why I felt so much guilt with coming home with Winona for my relationship with Sylvie or like the fear of that she might see that in a certain way, that it's just for a time. But it's hard still too. Cause emotions are high and hormones are hormone-ing.

Well, I think we might have time for one more question that I'm curious about. We talked last time about the maternity leave you took from your business and how it wasn't much of a leave.

So I'm curious how it went this time around and how often you were over at Katboocha versus how much you were able to step away?

Right. So I pretty much didn't go in for work work for about a month this time, which was good. And I mean, I wasn't, like, hardcore working, like, as, like, a lot of physical labor, but I was there doing the ordering, making sure bills were getting paid, we were depositing checks, doing the schedule, anything online, like, any of that, that was what I was doing. And then I actually did, like, throw out my back, like, a month into having Winona, and that rocked me.

Like, I've definitely, like, tweaked my back several times in my line of work in my life. But, like, specifically with, like, lifting kegs and all sorts of things. This one was different. I was really, like, I couldn't even...I couldn't sit, I couldn't walk. It was horrible. Eventually it healed up, but it definitely took, like, a good three weeks to a month. And that happened, like, just before. I was considering going back, like, one day a week to do certain things. So that was kind of a bummer, but it really was.

And I felt like the moment I did it, I, like, my heart broke in two, because it wasn't even about, like, the pain. It was more like, "oh, my God, we're both so tired." My husband, I are both so tired. I know he is.

Like, there's so much going on for him, not only with us, but in other aspects of his life, too. And I'm like, now you have to, like, I can't bend over. Like, I can't do anything. Like, I can't get up in the middle of the night and pick her up out of the crib. I can't change her diaper. Like, that was, like, probably, you know, this was before the Zoloft and stuff.

It all kind of, you know, added to the situation. But as far as, like, going back to work, yeah, I did kind of do like, a month and then maybe more like, chill stuff coming back.

And now I'm, like, definitely doing, like, 2-3 days a week, which is about where I was before I went for, like, maternity. So that's good. I got actually back to where I was faster. I mean, it's, I mean, probably most people are thinking, why wouldn't you want to take more time? It's like, I'm sorry, I can't for me, it also does kind of give you a big mental break. It's flexing a different muscle. It's feeling needed in a different way. I have a lot more control and a lot more. I don't know, there's like, a little bit more levity to it than being at home, but I still haven't turned my email notifications back on my phone, so there's that.

Maybe just leave it that way.

I kind of am, like, liking it. It was causing me a lot of stress to see the notification come down, even if it wasn't. And I'm just like, why? I'll just get. I'm sorry.

But yeah, if you need something, business owner, you'll just text me or call. We have a phone number for the shop. Call the shop. Otherwise, I'll check my email morning and night, ish.

Well, I'm glad you were able to return in a way that felt right to you this time, even with the setbacks.

Yes, yes. Things are going very well with all of our brews and everything, so that's also been, like, really encouraging as well.

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining me and updating us on your life with two under two. I hope things keep getting a little easier and you'll get more rest as things progress.

I know we'll have to do a, like an update.

Part 3: 3 under 3.

That's not possible, actually.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Timelines, growth.

Well, and also I got my tubes out.

oh! So congratulations, I guess. that's a good thing!

Yeah! She said I had cute tubes.

Wow. That's quite a compliment.

I know. I was like, what? I didn't know there could be ugly ones.

Yeah, me neither.

But mine are cute, so be jealous. Well, they were. This

This has been a presentation of the Lunchador Podcast Network.

Nice!