With half a million annual visitors contributing over $300 million to the regional GDP, Unama’ki - Cape Breton’s tourism sector is robust, but nowhere near saturated. In this episode, we highlight a tourism investment case study in Cheticamp, the rapid growth of marine tourism, and the emergence of Mi’kmaq tourism. The consensus is that there are lots of opportunities for investors, and that collaborating is the way to go.

• 00:33 Introduction
• 01:38 Cheticamp: A Case Study in Tourism Investment
• 09:06 Housing and Accommodation Projects
• 16:29 Superyacht East Coast: Turning Atlantic Canada into a Marine Destination
• 18:58 Businesses That Can Benefit From Superyachts
• 25:40 How Communities Can Attract Marine Tourism
• 30:40 NSITEN: Developing Authentic Indigenous Tourism Experiences 
• 38:26 Building Trust and Partnerships with Indigenous Communities

Andre Bourgeois is the Project Manager for La Pointe and Le Cap

• Le Cap Hotel
• La Pointe (Cheticamp Island) Facebook group

Adam Langley is the President and CEO of Superyacht East Coast

• Superyacht East Coast website
• Facebook
• Instagram
• LinkedIn

Robert Bernard is the Executive Director for the Nova Scotia Indigenous Tourism Enterprise Network (NSITEN)

• NSITEN website
• Facebook
• Twitter
• Robert Bernard on LinkedIn
• Kwilmu’kw Maw-klusuaqn (KMK)

Other Unama’ki - Cape Breton tourism organizations

• Destination Cape Breton

About the Invest in Cape Breton podcast

Unama'ki-Cape Breton is on the cusp of an economic renaissance. Invest in Cape Breton is a podcast that will challenge your assumptions about the island’s economy through in-depth interviews with local changemakers. We go beyond the headlines to reveal the untapped potential for investors and entrepreneurs, and offer a preview of the island’s coming transformation. Right from the first episode, we’ll show you why there's never been a better time to invest in Cape Breton.

This podcast is an initiative of the Cape Breton Partnership. It is hosted by Michelle Samson and produced by Storied Places Media. The theme music is "Under My Skin" by Elyse Aeryn.  This episode’s special theme song is 'Je m'en fus à sa porte' by Nicolas Boulerice, Olivier Demers, and Cape Breton's own Robert Deveaux. It is provided courtesy of Editions de la Compagnie du Nord  and David Murphy et Cie.

It's an exciting time to be in Unama'ki- Cape Breton.

2

We're having an economic Renaissance.

3

Andre Bourgeois: They're already coming,

so it's not build it and they will come.

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Build it because they're coming.

5

Michelle Samson: Throughout the series

we'll show you why there's never been

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a better time to invest in Cape Breton.

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Robert Bernard: All those elements

were part of the visitor survey.

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And it came back that the

interest was high, very high.

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Michelle Samson: Welcome back

to Invest in Cape Breton.

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I'm your host, Michelle Samson.

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Unama'ki - Cape Breton draws half

a million visitors per year who

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contribute over $300 million to our

regional GDP and support 8,500 jobs.

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These visitors come for the awe-inspiring

Cabot Trail, the monumental Fortress

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of Louisbourg, our world renowned

golf courses and our rich Acadian,

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Gaelic and Indigenous cultures, among

many, many, many other attractions.

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For investors, Unama'ki - Cape Breton

is swimming with opportunities because

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while the traffic is robust, this

island is nowhere close to saturation.

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In this episode, we illustrate these

opportunities by highlighting a tourism

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investment case study in Cheticamp,

the rapid growth of marine tourism,

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and the emergence of Mi'kmaq tourism.

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Thank you to our episode sponsor,

the Nova Scotia Indigenous

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Tourism Enterprise Network.

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Let's begin with that case study, which

really does illustrate how Unama'ki

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- Cape Breton's potential is so enticing

that a simple plan to build a cottage

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snowballed into a massive tourism project.

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Cheticamp is a community on the

island's northwest coast that serves

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as one of the gateways to the Cape

Breton Highlands National Park.

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It isn't far from other recent tourism

developments like Cape Smokey in

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Ingonish and Cabot Links in Inverness.

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The investor behind the Cheticamp

project is Kirk Hopner, CEO of the

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Ontario- based Nautical Lands Group,

which owns, builds, and operates

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residences for adults over 55.

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Kirk's boots on the ground partner, and

our guest for this episode, is Andre

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Bourgeois, a Cheticamp local with a long

track record of community involvement.

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It was actually Andre who planted a

lot of the seeds for this project.

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It all started when Kirk bought

a historically and culturally

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significant piece of land on

Cheticamp Island, known as La Pointe.

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The community was eager to find out

what this stranger planned to do

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with it, so Andre went to find out.

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It turns out that Kirk had simply

planned to build a cottage,

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but was open to other ideas.

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So Andre got to work, feeding him

intelligence about his new community.

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The first lesson was that Cheticamp

was founded by Acadians, an ethnic

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group descended from the French

who settled in Atlantic Canada

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during the 17th and 18th centuries.

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Through their early history, they

were persecuted by the British

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and ultimately deported from the

region en masse in the 17 hundreds.

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But many came back.

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And some set up a fishing

outpost in Cheticamp.

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Many visitors come to learn about

this ethnic group they might know

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a little about one that is distinct

from the communities surrounding it.

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Andre Bourgeois: There's a lot of Acadian

history here, there's a lot of Acadian

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culture here, there are buildings, there

are trails, there's lots to talk about

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and lots to get people interested in.

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Cheticamp has maintained an identity

and it's a very vibrant community,

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the music's vibrant, the culture,

the food, everything like that.

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But we're surrounded by basically,

and have been forever, surrounded

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by Scottish, Irish, Gaelic,

English speaking communities.

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Cheticamp is a gem in the sense that it,

it's exceptional, and what we're finding

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through everything that we're doing,

that there's a real opportunity there.

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Modern tourists want to

experience something different.

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They want to experience something

unique they want to be, uh, taught.

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They want to learn like,

what, what's Fricot?

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Well, it's, it's a brothy soup

that can have chicken or beef

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or potato, and it's very simple.

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And there's another

dish it's called Chiard.

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And, and same thing, it's super simple

potato and meat and a bit of broth.

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Uh, and, and just, again, an opportunity

to tell a story because suddenly you're

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linking back to, well, at the turn of

the century, people lived in these houses

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and, uh, they had no insulation and the

weather's brutal and they had potatoes

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in their little cold cellar and maybe

a little bit of meat, chicken or fish.

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They didn't have all kinds

of, uh, ingredients, so

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they had to keep it simple.

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Michelle Samson: Cheticamp's economy.

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Isn't only based on tourism that old

fishing outpost has grown and modernized

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into a substantial fishing industry.

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Which brings even more

people to the community.

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Andre Bourgeois: It brings a

lot of activity, a lot of people

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who don't live here year round.

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Our fishing season starts with offshore

crab, which usually begins in April

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when there's no ice or little ice.

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And, uh, and that segues into the lobster

season, which is usually June, July.

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And then July into early August,

there's an inshore crab industry,

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and mixed throughout that, there's

halibut and tuna fishing and so on.

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And somehow, right around the end of June,

July, the tourism season comes alive.

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And so the place goes kind of nuts.

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It's, it's like a beehive because

you've got all this fishing happening

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and the vehicles and the people and

the work and the activity, but you

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also have all these tourists coming.

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And, uh, for someone who maybe

doesn't know Cheticamp that well,

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we really have only one main street,

which is actually the Cabot Trail.

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Not only are we on the Cabot Trail, but

we're also right at the entryway to the

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Cape Breton Highlands National Park.

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So, those two things conspire to

really, uh, bring a lot of people

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here, uh, at least passing through.

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And that dovetails into some

of the things that we're doing.

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Uh, if you compare Cheticamp, for example,

to a smaller community like Baddeck.

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Baddeck has, gosh, I think maybe 10

times as many hotel rooms as we do.

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So we need more accommodations.

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So people love to come to Cheticamp.

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They love to drive through Cheticamp.

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But other than Airbnbs, for the

greater part, and some small businesses

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that have cabins, we don't have

that kind of large hotel facility.

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We probably could do with

two, three or four of them.

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Uh, so when you talk about investment

there is an opportunity here.

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I mean, we've had studies done that

tell us that they're already coming,

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so it's not build it and they will come.

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Build it because they're coming.

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Michelle Samson: The accommodations

gap, on top of the lessons on

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Cheticamp's history and culture got Kirk

really excited about this community.

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Andre was more than happy to point out

the opportunities, and do some legwork.

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You could say the project snowballed.

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Andre Bourgeois: It started with

Kirk and this beautiful piece

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of land and building a cottage.

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Adjacent to that, there is

the old original harbour for

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Cheticamp, which is La Pointe.

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And it was decommissioned by DFO

a few years ago and deeded to

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the Cheticamp Harbour Authority.

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So one day I was standing on Kirk's

land looking down at the harbour

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and he said, "That's beautiful.

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Who, who, who owns that?"

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You know, cause there's

nothing going on there.

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And I said, "well, I believe the

Cheticamp Harbor Authority owns it."

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He said, "do you think they'd sell it?"

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And I said, "I don't

know, but I can find out."

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And anyway, ended up

negotiating to purchase that.

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And so what that did is it created the

idea along with, because there's such

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a rich history, the idea of a museum,

and then it's, well, you can't really

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make money with a museum, so how about

we build a building right on the water

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that has a museum, and also a little

gastropub, you know, and maybe upstairs,

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we can have a multi functional space that

people can have readings, demonstrations,

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workshops, art shows, whatever.

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Then, we started looking at building

a trail, uh, at La Pointe because

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there are historical foundations,

there's a cemetery there.

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But then what also happened is there's a

beautiful piece of land at the other end

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of the village, uh, near the opening of

the harbor, that's about 14 acres, and

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Kirk always had a personal dream of, you

know, building, designing a boutique high

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end hotel, right, because he travels a

lot, he's stayed in a lot of these places.

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So, I was walking my dog there,

and the property was listed, and,

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and he just bought this other stuff.

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And I sent them the link,

and I was making light of it.

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I said, oh, what a great

place for a resort, eh?

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Like, that's, that was all.

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Phone rings, and it's like,

Do you know the agent?

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Do you know the guy?

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Okay, all right, talk to them.

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And, and so that's, that's become

Le Cap, which is going to be a

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really great project, hotel, spa,

there's going to be a retail sort

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of market, uh, component to it.

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Uh, and we're tying La Pointe at

the end of the island to this,

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like probably with a water taxi,

like some really cool things.

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And in keeping with these things,

we've got a couple of housing

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projects we're working on.

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Selfishly, we're going to need some

housing for our employees, but Maybe

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not so selfishly, the community

needs housing, several businesses

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need housing, um, housing's a real

problem here and everywhere else.

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So we've created a not for profit

organization to address those things and

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those things are very challenging to do.

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But nonetheless, they're projects that

serve a real purpose for the community

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and help other businesses and just

help people who want to live here.

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Michelle Samson: Are you able

to give an estimate of how

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many units we're talking about?

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Andre Bourgeois: Yeah, with one

of the projects, we're looking at

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probably between 50 and 55 units.

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Uh, and they'd be affordable, different

than low income, but affordable.

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You know, one bedroom, two bedroom,

a couple of three bedrooms, so

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that people who have work.

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and qualify for, you know, a

long term lease can live there.

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not what we're doing with the hotel,

it's a completely different thing.

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It's very community minded.

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And we're working on, uh, possibly

a retirement age community like,

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55 plus, uh, probably 20, 25 units.

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Um, and a lot of the numbers I'm telling

you are are not pulled out of thin air.

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They're actually what The research

and data tells us is required.

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So it's not as though we're

building an 18 story apartment

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building thinking, oh it'll be full.

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No, we're trying to be smarter than that.

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Michelle Samson: Right.

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And then how many rooms in the hotel?

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Andre Bourgeois: The hotel is going to

be, we're just entering the construction

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design point, where it gets a little

less theoretical and more practical.

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Uh, we're either side

of 40 rooms right now.

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Um, so not too big, but at the same

time, big enough and it's going to

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have a restaurant and a bar and a spa.

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There's nothing like that here.

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So we're not taking

business from anybody here.

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All the places that are currently

full, whether they're Airbnbs, cabins,

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cottages, or small motels, they're still

going to be full, you know, because

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again, there's a greater need, in fact,

for that kind of midline offering than

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there is for a higher end offering.

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But Kirk's dream was to

do something like this.

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He's found the perfect place to do it.

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Michelle Samson: I know it's, it's very

early, but, uh, are there any target dates

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for when some of this stuff might be open?

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Andre Bourgeois: Open is, tough,

but, uh, for example, at La Pointe,

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construction on things is happening

now, uh, we're building six, uh, rental

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cabins up in the woods, um, we're just

waiting for some permits and zoning,

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but, uh, we'll probably start building

down by the water either late this

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fall or early in the spring, and once

things start they move very quickly.

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As far as breaking ground on the hotel,

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just because it is such a large project.

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And, uh, in the case of some other

projects, we have to wait for deals

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to close, et cetera, et cetera.

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But again, 2025 is, I'm

very excited about that.

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More so than now, a lot of the things

that I'm talking about with you are,

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they're not tangible, they're not visible.

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So even though you're working

hard and a lot's getting done and

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a lot of people involved, it's

nothing that the community can see.

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So it's a little bit like yak, yak, yak,

you know, sort of show me the money.

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So I'm looking forward to 2025

when the community can start to see

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some of these things coming up and

that's going to be really exciting.

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Michelle Samson: Yet another part of the

plan is to build a marina for leisure

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boats at La Pointe in proximity to the

gastropub, beach and walking trails.

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As of now, there's nothing like it on

the northwest coast of Cape Breton.

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Andre Bourgeois: People would think,

oh, Cheticamp must be a great place

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for people with boats, whether

they're sailors or power boats.

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But the truth is, it's not at all, because

it's a working harbour in the summer.

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You've got these huge fishing

boats, and they're working.

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And so it's like the equivalent of saying,

yeah, I'm going to take my brand new

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Maserati and I'm going to go drive around

a gravel pit and park it next to a bunch

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of dump trucks and front end loaders

because that's exactly what it's like.

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So Cheticamp actually is not well set up.

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We need some sort of even small, uh, it

doesn't even need to be a full on marina.

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That's where we're working with

tourism to try to create a little

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bit of a marine destination, because

we're extremely well positioned as

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you leave or enter the Gulf of St.

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Lawrence.

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Uh, as the crow flies, you've got Les Iles

de Madeleines, uh, just either side of a

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hundred kilometers away, and then the same

with the, uh, east end of PEI, there's all

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kinds of things, and then once you have

that, it gives you the opportunity to do

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things like have a, a race that, that,

that goes round the island, you know,

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from Baddeck or Sydney, all the way around

the north tip to Cheticamp and back.

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And then when they arrive in

Cheticamp, there's an opportunity

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to perhaps have a festival with food

and music and people stay overnight.

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And these are the building

blocks of growth, you know.

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I know that more people would like to

spend more time here, and it's just

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that when it's really busy in July

and August, it's challenging because

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all of the Airbnbs, which are, by

the way, serving a very necessary

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purpose at this point, because we

don't have hotels, they're all booked.

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They're all full.

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So, you end up again having to

say, well, I'm going to stay in

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Baddeck, where they've got, you know,

lots of rooms, or Sydney, or Port

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Hawkesbury, or wherever it might be.

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So, uh, again, the word opportunity

keeps coming up, and, related to that,

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I think this is important, it's no

secret that on Cape Breton Island the

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focus is on growing the shoulder season

of tourism, uh, winter tourism, you

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know, that, that essentially summer

tourism is at the mature stage of, of

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marketing and promotion and sales, the,

the work needs to be done elsewhere.

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However, there's so many chicken-egg

catch 22 situations going on.

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You know, how do, you, how do you

encourage, uh, small accommodation

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operators to open in November,

December, January, February, March,

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if there's nowhere to eat open?

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And how do you encourage the person

who runs the little cafe or restaurant

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to open if there's nowhere to stay?

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And then, both of those folks, how

do you encourage them to open if our

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national park, for example, is, you

can drive through, but none of the

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amenities or facilities are open?

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So we always use the word

opportunity, not problem.

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You know, when something's not

open, it's like, well, there's an

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opportunity to have something open.

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When there's nowhere to stay,

there's an opportunity to have

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something open for people to stay in.

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And maybe they can stay

and eat in the same place.

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And maybe if the National Park isn't,

you know, the trails aren't open, the

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parking lots aren't plowed, whatever it

might be, Well, maybe, maybe you create

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experiences outside the park because

there are mountains, the same mountains,

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in fact, you know, outside the park,

uh, borders are generally imaginary.

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Uh, so there's opportunity there.

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And I think that Cheticamp is wonderfully

positioned geographically and otherwise to

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create and capitalize on all those things.

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Michelle Samson: One of the organizations

Kirk and Andre are talking to in regards

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to the marina is Superyacht East Coast,

which is leading the charge to turn

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Atlantic Canada into a marine destination.

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They have a hand in everything from

infrastructure development to marketing.

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Of course, you might guess from the name,

the core of their work is attracting

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superyachts, and helping communities

maximize the benefits of hosting them.

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Our next guest is Adam

Langley, the President and

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CEO of Superyacht East Coast.

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Adam says Unama'ki Cape Breton has a lot

to offer these massive pleasure boats.

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Our beautiful scenery is an obvious

one, but our cultural diversity is a

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big attraction too . Not to mention the

friendliness that helps these owners

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feel secure and welcome to the community.

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If you've spent any time in Baddeck, St.

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Peter's, or on Sydney's

waterfront, you already know

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that superyachts spend time here.

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But how many are we talking about?

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Adam Langley: It's

increasing significantly.

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We work closely with the Atlantic

Pilotage Association which uh, provide

289

guidance to yachts over 500 tons.

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The bigger yachts you might see

come into Sydney and and Baddeck

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Um, usually over 200 feet.

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So they had 58 assignments

last year in Nova Scotia, about

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which half were in Cape Breton.

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That's up from, uh, 12

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That's quite a jump, but that's

only capturing the big yachts.

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The superyacht as defined by

the United States Superyacht

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Association is a yacht over 80 feet.

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So the.

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numbers I'm referring to are only

capturing the rather large ones.

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There's a lot of yachts that are certainly

under 80 feet, or in between 80 and

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150 feet that are kind of the perfect

size for exploring Cape Breton, coastal

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Cape Breton and the Bras d'Or Lake.

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So as part of our work, we're working

with communities to begin and more

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coordinated effort to track these numbers.

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In Baddeck, uh they had

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Uh, in 2022, they had three and

then last year they had ten.

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for that.

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And those yachts didn't

just come to Baddeck.

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We call it a port of confidence that

are getting a lot of the services

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to support their, their itinerary to

further explore, uh, the rest of Cape

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Breton, uh, by both land and sea.

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I mean the visitors come ashore and they

do excursions and, and it kind of leads

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into the economic development side of

it, where you have a lot of, businesses

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that are able to access this opportunity,

from haircuts to helicopters.

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Michelle Samson: I prompted Adam to expand

on the economic development opportunity.

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There are all kinds of businesses

that can benefit from the huge

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budgets of the superyachts.

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Adam Langley: So, the immediate

benefactor would be the port or the

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waterfront, they're paying berth fees

to be at these locations . And as these

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destinations improve their services,

they can continue to increase those

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rates to reflect what they're offering.

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So that would be the immediate benefit.

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I own a small boat and they cost

money maintaining using them.

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Um, so the numbers just increase as

the size of the vessel gets bigger.

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So, I almost call them

floating debit cards.

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And if there's a community that can

support their visit, they plug in

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literally and just start spending.

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So, the larger yachts can spend,

based on the availability of services

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and experiences, thousands to tens

of thousands of dollars a day.

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Uh, we had a boat last summer

that spent about 10 days in Cape

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Breton, largely on the Bras d'Or

Lake, and they, spent $50, 000.

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And we had a vessel in 2022 that

cruised Cape Breton and Nova Scotia

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as part of a broader itinerary.

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They spent $400, 000

American over 6 weeks.

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And the captain, whom we know quite

well, said, I don't know, I would

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have spent more, but, I just spent

what I could on what I access to.

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So these things are significant

economic opportunities, but it needs

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to be approached in a balanced way.

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Our approach to building marine tourism

is ensuring that we're building for locals

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first because that's the attraction.

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And that's the opportunity as you develop

the waterfronts to have local businesses

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emerge and the supply chains are engaged.

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Everything from, you know, locally

made products and artisans, to cultural

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experiences, to natural adventures,

but then the nuts and bolts, the

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hardware stores, the grocery stores,

fuel, you know, general provisioning.

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These bigger yachts, you have the guests

spending, you have the crew spending, and

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you have the maintenance of the vessel,

inclusive of ship repair and maintenance.

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And that becomes part of the attraction

for these boats, knowing that they can

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be serviced, in these destinations.

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Michelle Samson: These superyachts

could be spending even more

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money in Unama'ki-Cape Breton.

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If you're a business owner or an

investor, there's a big opportunity

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here if you're willing to raise the

bar to their exacting standards.

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Adam Langley: The gaps that

we see are really the gap in

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the delivery of the service.

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Like, how can we elevate the services

that we have to meet and exceed the

357

visitor expectations, and how can we,

through that, invite new opportunities

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?

I know a couple boats that have come in with their pets.

359

And the first thing they asked

for was, is there a dog groomer?

360

And, you know, one wasn't

able to be sourced locally, so

361

one had to come from Halifax.

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I had a yacht come in once and

they needed an HVAC service.

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And so I called up an HVAC

company and said, "would you be

364

interested in servicing a boat?"

365

" What kind of boat?"

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I 200 foot yacht."

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" How do we do that?"

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I was like, " just think of it

as a building that's floating."

369

I said, "but here's what you need to do.

370

You need to put on a really clean uniform.

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You can't smoke.

372

You gotta take your boots off.

373

You gotta be very professional

in how you deliver the service."

374

And, uh, and they did that and then they

became one of our go-to resources on

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our long list of service providers to,

uh, clean HVAC systems on a superyacht.

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But one of the biggest gaps across

not just Cape Breton, but, you know,

377

kind of, you know, rural, Atlantic

Canada, where a lot of these boats

378

want to go, because they want to

explore and experience these coastal

379

communities, is ground transportation.

380

Since the pandemic, that's been

hard to recover and, uh, it

381

certainly has been a challenge.

382

We've been able to piece things

together through a lot of

383

partners across the island.

384

We really appreciate all the

efforts people put in, but

385

that's certainly an opportunity.

386

Michelle Samson: Adam says the way for

Unama'ki-Cape Breton to attract even more

387

of these superyachts is for our tourism

development organizations, communities,

388

ports, and businesses to band together.

389

Superyacht East Coast is growing the

Marine tourism sector by fostering

390

cooperation over competition.

391

Adam Langley: So we're not just

saying everybody come to Sydney or

392

everybody come to Baddeck or Cheticamp.

393

It's come to Cape Breton.

394

Here's the bigger experience of

the island, exterior and interior,

395

which is a huge advantage.

396

How many places can say

they have an inland sea?

397

Not very many.

398

So it's having understand that

we're promoting the product of Cape

399

Breton in the context of Nova Scotia,

in the context of Eastern Canada.

400

A lot of organizations that run

waterfronts or wharfs or ports,

401

they don't have the bandwidth to

do the marketing and to tell their

402

story and to attract the audience.

403

And if you can't do that, then you

can't build a sustainable operation.

404

So that's where we come in.

405

We take that heavy lifting of going out

and finding the audience and the visitors

406

and just driving them to your product

within the bigger product of the region.

407

Michelle Samson: If you follow Superyacht

East Coast on their very polished social

408

media channels, you'll see Adam and his

partner, Amanda, the marketing brain

409

of the operation, promoting the region

at strategic events and boat shows

410

like the Newport Charter Yacht Show.

411

New England is a particular target

market because once a boat is in the

412

northeast us, it isn't too hard to

extend the itinerary to Atlantic Canada.

413

So, if you're an investor interested

in Unama'ki - Cape Breton's growing

414

marine tourism sector, where

exactly should you put your money?

415

Here's what Adam recommends.

416

Adam Langley: You got to figure out how to

partner with our, waterfront developments.

417

A lot of them are attached to main

streets that are underperforming as well.

418

So you bring those two together

and I see tremendous development

419

opportunity in the kind of the

waterfront districts of our communities.

420

So that can be new

restaurants, new businesses.

421

Getting people on the water too,

like, where do I go to rent

422

a standup paddleboard like,

there's not a lot of that.

423

Michelle Samson: Another major

opportunity, which Andre brought up as

424

well, is for the sector to coordinate

in order to be open year round.

425

Adam Langley: I think the big, critical

piece of the whole puzzle is we need

426

more elevated accommodations and

experiences, and that are open year round.

427

I look at the Cape Breton economy and

I see in the wintertime where places

428

like Baddeck close, and it just breaks

my heart because I know all these

429

people that want to come and snowmobile

and ski and do all these other winter

430

activities, but the availability

of places to stay and eat is thin.

431

So, looking at these nodes,

Baddeck, Cape Smokey,

432

Ingonish

433

Adam Langley: District, and how

do we build up capacity there

434

to create a year round economy.

435

I know there's other things at play

that make it challenging and especially

436

around getting staff and whatnot.

437

There's a taxation incentive

that needs to be reversed.

438

But the conversations are happening.

439

I think if there are investors

that are willing to take a chance,

440

I'd be looking at some of these

diamonds in the rough, so to speak.

441

Michelle Samson: If you're a business

owner, looking to work with superyachts,

442

Adam invites you to give him a call

and join his list of service providers.

443

Adam would also like to expand

the network with more communities.

444

He emphasizes that the work is about more

than superyachts or catering to the rich.

445

Adam Langley: Superyachts has been

a hook and it's been very good at

446

opening up a conversation, but it's

where you take the conversation that

447

matters and where we take it is publicly

accessible waterfronts for everyone.

448

And getting rid of these stigmas that

boating is just for people of means,

449

boating is about access to the water, and

once you get that access, it's how you

450

get on the water, that, that's up to you.

451

I mean, my first boat was a leaky

little rowboat that I spent more

452

time bailing than rowing, but I

was on the water, so I was free.

453

So that's what it's all about.

454

Build for locals first, which attract

the visitor, increase the animation

455

of the platform to then build a stage

for people to perform, businesses to

456

thrive, and communities to really re

engage with their waterfront assets.

457

So, you know, a lot of communities

around Cape Breton Atlantic Canada

458

have, you know, derelict waterfront

properties and just they're not being

459

productive, and a lot of times they

don't know how or where to start the

460

kind of reinvention of their waterfront.

461

And that's where we come in.

462

We really help build the case to

then activate the waterfront and

463

make it productive, but doing so in

context of this collaborative marine

464

destination network, because no

yacht is just going to one place.

465

They're going to

a network of experiences.

466

And the more destinations

you have, the more viable you

467

become as a marine destination.

468

Michelle Samson: So many of our

communities are waterfront, would

469

you say if we did a really good

job of promoting tourism, is

470

there an upper end of saturation?

471

Or do you feel like there are just

so many opportunities here for these

472

communities to take advantage of?

473

Adam Langley: I think our

waterfronts are low hanging fruit.

474

In my experience over 10 years,

taking the Halifax waterfront from

475

an underperforming space to the most

visited destination in the province,

476

that was a tremendous success story,

and those foundational elements that

477

made that property successful can be

implemented across any waterfront.

478

And you're not trying to replicate

Halifax anywhere, but you need

479

to have those foundational

pieces that make it work.

480

It's just a matter of where you want

to take it, and how you're going

481

to get there, and you need to have

a committed group of people in the

482

community that say, yes, we want to be

part of something bigger than ourselves.

483

And we want to work collaboratively

to attract a market that's

484

going to spread across a larger

landscape that we're included in,

485

Nova Scotia has 13, 300 kilometers

of coastline, Eastern Canada is

486

over 43, 000 kilometers of coastline.

487

So, it'll take a long time for us to

overpopulate our region with visitors.

488

So that's a great advantage because we

see other parts of the world, but they

489

are over touristed and over visited.

490

Places like the Med are becoming so

busy you can almost walk across areas

491

from deck to deck of these boats.

492

It's important for us and part

of this network development that

493

we're spreading out those visitors.

494

So they're not just all

congregating in one spot.

495

So definitely there is room for growth.

496

And the marinas have a great

opportunity in this story as well.

497

So, a lot of our marinas are uh,

traditional, small recreational boat

498

focused over the years, because that's

what the local market had largely been.

499

But now even local boats are getting

bigger, so marinas need to expand.

500

And part of our work is

having business cases heard.

501

So a lot of, times, you know, investors,

especially in the public side, they've

502

tried running away as fast as possible,

"I don't wanna invest in the wharf."

503

So I coined the term flexible

marine infrastructure.

504

What's that?

505

Well, it's, you know, investing in a

marina or a wharf, like a public wharf

506

that serves multiple users and you try to

make it accessible and usable year round.

507

So perhaps in the off season it's

accommodating fishing vessels, or you're

508

bringing a niche cruise vessels or other

research vessels, it doesn't matter.

509

But you try to make that asset

as productive as possible.

510

And in doing that, you're able

to attract more partners to

511

support the initial investment.

512

Michelle Samson: What would you say

are the lowest hanging waterfronts?

513

Adam Langley: St.

514

Peter's Canal, big time.

515

Port Hawkesbury waterfront.

516

These are gateways, like, St.

517

Peter's is a gateway to and

from the Bras d'Or Lake.

518

Port Hawkesbury is a gateway

through the Strait of Canso.

519

Cheticamp.

520

Ing onish, amazing, like, I've

talked to Cape Smokey folks about a

521

marina that's that's in their plans.

522

Sydney, there's lots of exciting things

going on in Sydney between the Main Street

523

and the waterfront and campus, et cetera.

524

Grand Narrows slash Iona.

525

East Bay Ben Eoin Marina is

kind of for boats 50 foot and

526

smaller, but doesn't matter.

527

We had boats anchor off of Ben

Eoin last year and tender in,

528

because they have 50 foot tenders.

529

And I'm excited about Indigenous tourism

opportunities in Eskasoni and Goat Island.

530

Michelle Samson: That is the perfect

transition to our next guest.

531

Robert Bernard is the Executive Director

for the Nova Scotia Indigenous Tourism

532

Enterprise Network (NSITEN), which also

happens to be this episode's sponsor.

533

This volunteer not-for-profit

534

and as the mandated regional indigenous

tourism organization representing

535

the national body, the Indigenous

Tourism Association of Canada (ITAC)

536

The organization supports capacity

building opportunities through cultural

537

training and business development

specifically for Mi'kmaq owned tourism

538

businesses in multiple sectors.

539

NSITEN also works with many ally partners

to provide protocol welcomes to visitors

540

from around the world to the ancestral

homelands of the Mi'kmaq people.

541

They are also very proud to showcase

the beautiful Mi'kmaq culture

542

through authentic experiences in

the arts, dance, music, crafts,

543

culinary, and immersive experiences.

544

Jukwita’q – Come!

545

Knu’t+masi – Learn!

546

Jiks+te’n – Listen!

547

Pjila’si –Welcome!

548

Robert says the acronym N S I T E N is

a Mi'kmaq word pronounced in-suh-dan,

549

which means "we want you to understand".

550

Before NSITAN could help others

understand Mi'kmaq history and culture,

551

they had to understand themselves.

552

Back in 2012, Mi'kmaq tourism was

just a seed that needed help to grow.

553

So they went on a trade mission to

British Columbia, where Indigenous

554

tourism was more advanced, and

came back with lots of ideas.

555

Robert Bernard: Here in

Mi'kma'ki, where people know it

556

as, uh, the Atlantic region, the

Mi'kmaq people are the majority.

557

Um, and we have been first to make

contact with settlers for over 500 years.

558

And so we've had a lot of

cultural loss, from our language

559

to our, uh, authentic practices.

560

And so authenticity was a big thing

that we came back with and how,

561

how do we deal with that ? And so

we've been really working with our

562

elders and working on who are we?

563

What is ours?

564

How are we going to share it?

565

Who is going to share it?

566

And ensuring that people from around

the world that visit our beautiful

567

location are actually experiencing

authentic songs, dances, food.

568

Our people, have been essentially

tried to be wiped out and we're still

569

here It's a story of resilience,

it's a story of, uh, keeping our

570

culture alive and our language alive.

571

I'm blessed to still speak my

language, but there's a concern that,

572

that might not be the case in the

next 25 years if we're not careful.

573

So in terms of the work we've been

doing coming back from that big trip,

574

we were excited about being a part

of the tourism industry and growing

575

the businesses, but we realized that

we need to know who we are first.

576

We need to understand and share

our cultural protocols working

577

with the tourism industry to help

them to better understand that we

578

are the ones to welcome people to

these ancestral lands of our people.

579

It's been a few years of focusing on

those efforts and building stronger

580

relationships with, industry and,

um, accessing government funding so

581

that we can start building those um,

elements of cultural recovery, while

582

we're growing the opportunity of our

business owners to develop market

583

ready, business ready opportunities.

584

Michelle Samson: These opportunities

have already started hitting the market.

585

There are indigenous tourism

offerings available across Unama'ki.

586

Robert Bernard: There's a number

of communities that are taking the

587

lead with sharing their cultural

experiences and cultural stories.

588

I mean, right away you hear of Eskasoni,

uh, cultural journeys and Goat Island.

589

And they, cater to thousands of

visitors every year in the summer.

590

And then of course, uh,

Membertou Heritage Park and the

591

work they're doing over there.

592

They're right, in Sydney, so many of

the visitors that come to Sydney, whether

593

it's major events or tournaments or

cruise ship, whatever it is, um, they

594

actually have like a museum set up where

people can actually walk through, um,

595

different time eras of the Mi'kmaq people.

596

My community here, uh, Waigoma'a, we

have a beautiful sky river trail.

597

And, um, we have people that work

from the community that know the

598

culture, that share the stories.

599

They offer, uh, uh, authentic foods

and, activities they basically

600

showcase the beautiful landscape

and the river and, the cultural

601

dances, all, all of those elements.

602

There's been a lot of work, um, also

with creating partnerships, and St.

603

Peter's Canal is, is one of those.

604

We just hosted our, uh, Provincial Tourism

Conference , and, uh, we announced two

605

things, the creation of the first Mi'kmaq

Music Association, which will focus on

606

bringing, musicians from different genres

together to be available and ready to go

607

on quick notice when major events happen.

608

And so, they just hosted the

Junos in Halifax, as you know.

609

And so, our people were involved

in the opening protocols, and

610

sharing our music and dance.

611

So we want to have more of a coordinated

effort in moving that forward.

612

The other element that was announced

was um, that we're creating a,

613

uh, Mi'kmaq culinary project with

Nova Scotia Community College.

614

So we're targeting youth in our, uh,

high schools so that they can start

615

learning about culinary from the kitchen

perspective, but also from the land.

616

You know, our diet was always, connected

to the land and the berries and the

617

animals and, you know, we didn't waste.

618

There's words in our language about,

um, things like Netukulimk, which

619

means, um, you only take what you need.

620

So it's based on sustainability.

621

We want to reconnect our youth to, you

know, traditional ways of, knowing and

622

being and connecting with our culinary

and showcasing that sometime down

623

the road as an authentic experience

for tourists, uh, to come and, uh,

624

participate in from around the world.

625

The other project that we talked

about was, um, maybe this fall, but

626

likely next spring, the Jajiktek

Seawall International Hiking

627

Trail, is going to open up, uh, in

northern, uh, Cape Breton, Unama'ki.

628

Um, so just past Pleasant Bay area, and

it's going to go all the way to Meat

629

Cove on the northwest side of the island.

630

Which is a 54 kilometre trail

, four overnights and five days.

631

I just got off a call in terms of

getting all of that sorted out and

632

planned, uh, the construction of the

trail and, uh, the overnight stays

633

and safety, all those elements.

634

But a big part of it is how, how do we

represent Mi'kmaq people on that trail?

635

How do we educate visitors

from around the world.

636

How do we educate people that live

next door to those communities

637

about the Mi'kmaq people, right?

638

Michelle Samson: Robert says the

demand for education and authentic

639

indigenous experiences is high.

640

Incident recently collaborated

with tourism, Nova Scotia to access

641

their list and run a visitor survey.

642

Robert Bernard: They have a list

of probably 25,000 visitors from

643

around the world that, uh, come

to Nova Scotia on a regular basis.

644

So we wanted to ask, Do you

know about the Mi'kmaq people?

645

Would you pay to experience an

authentic Mi'kmaq performance?

646

Or, do you know what authenticity means?

647

Have you visited a Mi'kmaq community?

648

Like, all those elements were

part of the visitor, uh, survey.

649

And it came back that the

interest was high, very high.

650

And people wanted to know more.

651

But it also came back that people

didn't know much about our people.

652

Authenticity was important, but

they didn't know what was

653

authentic versus not authentic.

654

So that's something

we're working on as well.

655

Through the Assembly, our

leadership approved the

656

Authenticity Guidelines process.

657

And so now we're going to run all of

our businesses and artists and crafters

658

through this so that everyone will know

that they are certified as a Mi'kmaq

659

person to provide these services.

660

So now the other goal is going to be to

educate tourism and visitors from around

661

the world, look for the stamp of approval.

662

So this is something that we're right

now, um, just starting to implement

663

into the communities and the businesses.

664

Michelle Samson: Let's bring this

conversation back to investment.

665

There are great opportunities

in indigenous tourism.

666

But it's important for investors who are

not Indigenous to come with an open mind.

667

Robert Bernard: We see things

differently in terms of investment.

668

And when someone comes here from another

country or another land, learning

669

about the First Peoples history should

be a first responsibility before

670

you try to make money off the land.

671

You know, I've had conversations just

even recently about companies not taking

672

the time to get to know, the true history

of the people and, how they can be part

673

of reclamation, part of reconciliation.

674

It's like, what can you do as an

investor to help correct the wrongs

675

that have happened to the First People?

676

That's a big question and

nobody wants to tackle that.

677

And if they wanted to tackle

that, all they have to do is come

678

and talk to us and work with us.

679

And there's many, many different ways

from small projects in communities that

680

could, you know, create employment and

training, but larger projects where we

681

can, you know, talk about land back.

682

Wow, that's a scary thing.

683

Land back.

684

We still deal with a lot of

issues with access to land.

685

It doesn't make sense.

686

We're the first people of this land,

you know, like, yet we're struggling

687

with access to our own homelands.

688

For whatever reason, we have

land claims in the court

689

systems for past 40, 50 years.

690

That is ridiculous.

691

So, I'd like to send a challenge to

any investors to make a difference.

692

If you're going to come and you want to

do something with the Mi'kmaq people,

693

help change the course of history and

help us get back what is truly ours.

694

And it starts with building

those relationships and, uh,

695

it starts with one project.

696

But, um, you know, I think if that

was a standard that was developed,

697

then you would see true investment.

698

Not just in the form of revenue and

dollars, but in people, in culture, in

699

reconciliation, true reconciliation.

700

Michelle Samson: Robert welcomes

investors to reach out to NSITAN

701

who are the doers that create

partnerships and relationships.

702

And also to the Assembly of

Nova Scotia Mi'kmaq Chiefs,

703

which is the place to present.

704

Whether you're in the public or

private sector, if you're intending

705

to do anything that involves

Indigenous heritage or culture.

706

The time to engage Mi'kmaq people

is at the very beginning of the

707

planning phase and leave lots of

time for open-minded conversations.

708

Here are some of the

questions you should ask.

709

Robert Bernard: What do

you think we should do?

710

What kind of timelines do we need?

711

Who do we engage with?

712

What are the priorities of the community?

713

Those are the questions you need to

have conversations with Mi'kmaq people

714

here and anywhere around the world that

you're working with Indigenous people.

715

Because each of the communities are

different and they have different

716

issues that they're facing, whether

it's, you know, employment issues or,

717

or business development or land issues.

718

Don't assume that each of the communities

have the same things going on.

719

So you need to be able to be flexible.

720

And when you're dealing with communities

for Indigenous people, our process

721

very different . It's not as political

as, you know, the outside world.

722

Our direction and leadership

comes from our communities, our

723

mothers, our youth, our elders.

724

It's very holistic.

725

So this is why the timelines

from outside don't work with us.

726

If you're going to put six months on

engagement, I would easily triple that.

727

Minimum double and, um, we

might be able to get it done.

728

That's just the way it

works, so be flexible.

729

And be willing to invest time and, and

dollars into, um, learning about our ways.

730

And if anybody wants to make a difference,

they can help us with finding ways to

731

create, you know, entities and funds that

would be accessed by tourism, business

732

owners and organizations like ours, where

we're struggling to access government

733

funding to help business grow, to help

tourism grow, to help cultural recovery.

734

Like those are elements that we're

working on on a daily basis, and I

735

think we'd get lots of good stuff done.

736

Michelle Samson: Robert recognizes the

challenges of planning major projects and

737

the temptation to have a solid plan before

seeking input from Indigenous communities.

738

But he emphasizes that

is not the way to go.

739

Robert Bernard: Don't come forward

with something that's already created

740

in terms of a plan with structures

and timelines and everything.

741

I can almost guarantee that, plan is

going to be re evaluated and, um, broken

742

apart and then brought back together.

743

And it's not going to look the

same as, as you did coming.

744

So just being smart and flexible.

745

And you know what?

746

Our people want to get to know you first.

747

They don't want to get to know the money.

748

Sure, that might come after, but

they want to be able to trust you.

749

They want to be able to understand

the work and the company and the

750

people and who are you and your

family and your connections and your

751

culture and, like, all those things.

752

Michelle Samson: Building

trust is a reciprocal process.

753

Robert says the best way to learn

about Indigenous communities.

754

His boots on the ground.

755

Robert Bernard: Come and visit.

756

Dance and sing.

757

We want you to understand who we are and

that's not going to happen from your desk.

758

That's not going to happen from a

transfer of money to our accounts.

759

That's not going to happen

from, you know, giving us an

760

award or us giving you an award.

761

It's going to happen from you

experiencing the smell of our food,

762

the brilliance of our music, and the

connection of the story to that song,

763

to what has happened to our people.

764

It's also the smiles of our children

when they come and see you and

765

they're happy that someone actually

took the time to come to be with us

766

and to build that trust, but more

than anything, to earn that trust.

767

So if they come with a blank canvas,

knowing that they can create an

768

idea and a project, having that in

mind and then create it together,

769

that would be a beautiful thing.

770

Michelle Samson: Thank you to Robert

Bernard, Adam Langley, and Andre.

771

Borzois for sharing your

insight on tourism investment

772

in Unama'ki - Cape Breton.

773

For more information on their

organizations and projects, check

774

out the links in the show notes.

775

That's also where you'll find

links for other organizations

776

that support tourism investment.

777

This episode's special theme song is

'Je m'en fus à sa porte' by Nicolas

778

Boulerice, Olivier Demers, and

Cape Breton's own Robert Deveaux.

779

It is provided courtesy of

Editions de la Compagnie du

780

Nord and David Murphy et Cie.

781

Thanks again to our episode

sponsor the Nova Scotia Indigenous

782

Tourism Enterprise Network.

783

There are more episodes to come on.

784

The invest in Cape Breton podcast.

785

To make sure you don't miss a single one,

hit that follow button on apple podcasts

786

or Spotify to be notified when a drops.

787

Invest in Cape Breton is produced

by Storied Places Media, a

788

proudly Cape Breton owned business

operated by me, Michelle Samson.

789

Thanks for listening.