Welcome back to Branded: your comprehensive guide to creative branding. In this outside-the-box episode, we explore the world of agricultural branding. This might not be the first industry that comes to mind when you think about branding, but as we found out, it's deeply intertwined with the agricultural sector.

We were thrilled to welcome two experts to the show: Dr. Autumn Pickett and Dr. Shea Mackey. They shared their insights into how branding is applied in agriculture and the historical significance of branding in this field.

Dr. Mackey and Dr. Pickett walked us through the different methods of branding cattle, from the traditional hot iron method to the more humane freeze branding. We also explored how these different methods can impact both the animals and the final products, such as leather goods or the cattle’s value in show competitions.

This episode was not just about cattle branding but opened a broader conversation about how a ranch’s reputation and breed choices can act as a form of branding in agriculture. Plus, we had a lot of fun diving into the quirks and oddities of cow culture and how cattle can have chiropractors, yes, chiropractors!

Let's break down the key takeaways:

1. Historical Roots of Branding: We learned that branding dates back thousands of years, with the Egyptians pioneering the practice, and how it evolved significantly in the Americas with the Spanish influence. This history highlights the longstanding significance of branding in agriculture.
2. Methods and Implications of Branding: Dr. Mackey and Dr. Pickett differentiated between hot iron and freeze branding, noting the latter as a more humane and preferred method due to its minimal stress on the animals and clearer visible results.
3. Branding as Ranch Identity: As we explored, brands are more than just identification marks; they symbolize a ranch's legacy and reputation. Certain brands, like the 4-6’s, convey a story and set a standard for the animals that carry them.
4. Modern Innovations in Branding: Even with tech advances like RFID tags and ear tattoos, the permanence and tradition of physical branding still play a vital role. These electronic methods, while useful, present issues like getting lost or removed, which hot and freeze brands do not.
5. Branding Beyond Cattle: The conversation extended to how branding principles apply more broadly in agriculture, with ranches known for specific breeds much like companies are known for specific products. This highlights the broad applicability of branding concepts across various sectors.

We hope this episode has expanded your perspective on branding. Whether you're thinking agricultural or entrepreneurial, the principles of creating a clear, lasting mark resonate across all fields. And, of course, happy April Fools Day!

What is happening, everybody? I'm Larry Roberts.

And I'm Sara Lohse. And this is Branded, your comprehensive guide to creative branding.

And on this really interesting outside the Box episode, we're going to talk about different types of branding and branding in different industries. And it might surprise you to think that branding is even like in agriculture.

Yeah, we've, we've talked about branding in a lot of the industries that we work in. We've talked about it and we've talked about finance, we've talked about entrepreneurship, we've talked about personal brands. But we really wanted to take a day and dive into some of the industries that we don't talk about a lot. And we are lucky enough to be joined by two. One doctor, one almost doctor, a couple months away from her PhD, but two doctors in, in the agricultural space and talking about how to. How we incorporate branding in that space.

So with no further ado, Dr. Shay Mackey and Dr. Autumn Pickett, welcome to Branded.

Thanks, guys. We're excited to be here for sure.

We've talked, we talked a little bit before about, about branding. How is branding really relevant in what y'all do? And how are you bringing branding into your everyday life within the agricultural space?

Yeah, so branding, Autumn, you know, a lot of times what we do in the industry is for identification. You know, a lot of stuff like that. Branding can be individual ID numbers or it can circle back to an operation or a kind of like ownership type deal.

I mean, going back, we can definitely tell that branding is been around for a long time. I mean, even in ancient civilization times, we go back to branding. The earliest known branding actually happened with the Egyptians. They started branding their oxen about, you know, 4,000 years ago. But this was typically used to ID their cattle. But branding really didn't take off until in the Americas when Spanish people brought the practice to Mexico and Texas, the 1500s.

Wow, you're like a real doctor. You got all this historical knowledge that you're bringing to the table today. I'm being educated as we speak. So let me ask you this because, you know, in branding, a lot of times, you know, there's like symbols and logos and colors and fonts. How do you, how do you go about, how does that impact agriculture?

So the main ways. Yeah, like the main ways that you're going to brand cattle, because that's all we know is cows. But you can probably brand other types of livestock. Like, you're either gonna burn it on them or freeze it on them kind of thing. Yeah. So there's like A metal rod that has your specifical, like specific shape.

Does it make that little noise too? It makes.

It absolutely does. Yeah. Yeah. So think about it. You're going to be kind of frying the upper layer, like that dermis layer right there. If you do have any tattoos.

Yeah, right.

Yeah. See, they kind of. They get just underneath that layer skin. Right. Same concept where you can damage the hide, essentially. And. And it stays there forever.

Personally, I don't prefer the hot iron branding method just because it does. Cause, you know, it doesn't come out as clear. Your brand isn't really showing through like I would like it to. And it actually kind of creates like a permanent scar. So it actually causes higher cortisol levels in these animals. So there are different methods that you can use. Yeah, I know. Look at me using science.

So I prefer freeze branding. That's kind of my preferred method of branding when it comes to agriculture. Just because it typically doesn't cause as much stress on the animals. It actually causes. You use the extreme cold rather than the heat. And this kills pigment producing cells in the follicles. This actually causes the hair to disappear, but then when it comes back, it causes the hair to be white or lighter colors than the animals are typically. So if you use a black cow, then you're going to have this white brand on their side come back.

This one's typically more humane, the hot brand, than the hot branding, and provides, you know, a better end product in the long run. Yeah.

But location also plays a very big role in value of the hide.

Right.

If you think about the shape of the cow, if you're going to put it like a rib brand. Right. Right over their rib cage, then you're going to. There's going to be less expansive piece of hide that can be utilized in further production for like baseballs and footballs and such.

Your car seats. This is true. I can talk personally on one. Growing up, we did a lot of freeze branding. So I kind of knew what I was doing. Whenever I went to my masters, I got paired with somebody that didn't really know what they were doing when they were freeze branding. And so we were doing.

Real quick, you said when you were preparing for your masters, where are we going with this?

I was just, I was getting to that. Let me just finish the story that I was going to do. Yeah, just let her speak.

Okay, yeah, sorry.

So we were branding this big group of cattle and we were going to do the entire side, but this guy was like, all right, so you're going to space it, you know, six inches apart. And I was like, no, no, sir. Like, you can't do that. These are growing animals. Like, their hide's going to extend in. What's it going to take 20 minutes for you to read the letters once this thing gets done? I mean, you're going to have to look down the entire side of this cow. What. What are you going to do? That's just.

I don't know. But I. I definitely still am one that kind of prefers breeze branding. But we also have to think about, like Shay said, how is that going to affect the end product in the long run? So we can. There are also kind of modern technology that we started looking at as far as RFID tags or tattoos and ear tags. But we do have to think about the possibility of these animals losing that sort of brand. How well do these tags stay in these animals? How well are they actually going to read? I mean, I know Shea can talk personally about having issues with these RFID tags for days when it comes to research trials.

Yeah. And that's a hot topic with, like, the usda. Like, recently, in the last couple of years, kind of started identifying like a. The RFID tags is like permanent identification. Whereas a lot of people disagree because it can come off right. Like a brand is there forever. Whereas an ear tag can get caught up in the fence and ripped out.

But, yeah, I mean, so if we're.

Talking like an earring getting, you know, getting in a fight, hearing getting ripped out, I think.

Yeah, yeah. They can't say my jewelry almost.

You've had that happen one time.

Oh, you had earrings. Interesting. I have, for some reason. That's not surprising.

Man. I don't know. I don't know how to take that honestly.

So. Okay, so. So we're not. We're not talking about building, like, a brand for a company. We're. We're talking about cattle brand.

Yes. But it's also. You're building a brand for your own individual. I mean, this calls back to being culturally accepted. I mean, these. These brands go back hundreds of years for some of these ranches. So, I mean, in turn, it is. It is a brand.

Yeah, they're. They are, like, specific as well. Like, you. You have to register your physical brand so nobody can take it. Right. So if yours is, you know, Autumn's is a big A. And she registers it in the state of Texas, like, nobody be using that because Autumn has registered that for her kind of thing.

Could you use it in a different. In a different state? Like, if I went to Oklahoma, Could I have a big A?

You would have to register it there as well.

Yeah, but if it was a fat.

A, a fat A still have to register it.

But it's not like you can just grab somebody's branding iron and just start making marks. These brands are very highly regulated. Most states in the U.S. like Shea said, do have these brand registries and you need to apply for this brand to be able to use it. You need to use these brands, come up with one that's unique and readable so animals aren't confused between these ranches.

Because as so the animals read them.

I think, oh no, they can't.

No, I don't.

It depends on what breed that it.

Sounded like that they had to be clear so the animals could read them clearly. So that's how it's more of.

So people can read them clearly. Not only is it, you know, a unique ID for that animal on your specific ranch, but if you have these animals going to different ranches, people are going to identify that as this is coming from 10 triple X Ranch in Texas, like, and people can hold these cattle to a certain standard. I know Express ranches is a huge operation and you see their brand on the shoulders of these animals and you expect higher quality animals. The ex brand is always very intimidating to me. Whenever I was showing cattle, you know, beauty contests for animals, they were always, I, I would see an ex brand, I'm like, well, that automatically gets first. Like there's no possibility.

What about like the four sixes? Isn't the four sixes ranch? Isn't that supposed to be the cat daddy?

Four sixes is very well known. I, I think they're more well known for having horses, which they do brand horses. Typically you're not going to hot brand iron horses. You're going to stick with that freeze branding method. Just because typically your horses are more high, high value than cattle. Especially because they're more of a hobby animal rather than anything. People kind of cherish them a little bit better than cattle.

Has there ever been a turf war between the different ranch brands?

Probably, yeah, I think Shay would probably know more about that. She's kind of more on the turf wars when it comes to show cattle. I don't think really in production settings we have as big of an issue, but I could definitely see on the show cattle side there would be some give and take with some of the brands.

Yeah, probably, I guess I don't any specific examples. But it may be like when you're like back in those cow beauty contests, right like you can identify certain brands and then some people are gonna be like, oh, yeah, well that one's gonna win the class because they had that brand. Well, then they get beat and then you're like, oh, there's gotta be beef there.

There's been nice eth. There.

Are you. If a cow loses the. The beauty contest, it goes to slaughter.

Oh, not always, but.

Oh, well, you said there's beef there, so I just assumed that all the way.

I meant like fight.

Oh, okay. Oh, you mean like beef.

It was. It was a pun.

I gotcha.

I was Penny.

Yeah, that was very punful.

Do you know what, what happens if they hurt their back? They go to the chiropractor.

They really do have chiropractors.

They really do. We were actually talking about it the other day and that was. It was a very interesting topic because she did not believe me how I got it work.

I mean, you got to be a strong some to pop a cow's back.

Oh, you got to be like very.

Strategic and ready to run.

Yeah, they're just big grass puppies. I mean, there's only the occasional that'll, you know, make you. Make you run up a fence.

Just. Just put a 350 pounder up on top of them or something. That'll. That'll snap their back.

I don't know. I pushed pretty hard on some cow's backs and nothing ever happened.

Yeah, I have too. But anyways, good wife. Live. Live the full life.

What else should we know about branding and agriculture?

What is the oldest recorded brand in the United States is the, like the running W for the King Ranch. Did you know that the King ranch is the size of Rhode Island?

Wow.

Oh, wow.

I did not know that.

I was googling the top land owners in the United States out of curiosity, and I found that fun fact.

Wow.

Weren't they the. They made. What breed did they make? They made Santa Gertrudis Saniger Trudis. That's what it was. That was such, such an odd combination of frees who just. Yeah, let's just take a short horn and a Brahmin and be like, all right, this is a good idea.

Yeah. One of them is frail, light muscle, you know, just not very good. Kind of ugly. And the other ones are Brahmin. That's late maturing. Let's put them together.

Yeah.

They're just trying to provide some balance there, you know, some balanced beef.

I. I really don't think that was a good balance.

But.

But yeah, I mean, I typically like 20, but whatever. Whatever works.

I don't know. It was. Yeah, I. San Agatrudis is not my favorite, but that's fine.

Me either.

So are wine.

Are breeds of cows almost like brands then if like different ranches have their own.

Yeah, I think typically you can. The bigger ranches I feel like would be branded by their type of cattle that they produce or what they raise. Speaking specifically about, you know, my ranch growing up, we were definitely branded with Black Angus. Shea over here being more simmental. I respect simmental, but you know, that's the, that's cool. But at least mine don't have to worry about having asterisks by their names.

Oh, okay. Now that was a low blow.

Oh, now.

I think we're getting into a turf war.

Yeah, beef right here on the podcast.

Sorry Simbras. My bad.

Those also questionable.

Is Wagyu like a brand?

I. Yeah, I guess I, I don't have much. I don't want to say I don't have respect for the Wagyu's, but I do think yeah, you can. They have their place. Yeah, they have place for sure.

It's just, you know, like for regular black hided medium frame cattle, days on feed is like 200, right? That's until from 8 when they enter the feedlot to when they exit the feedlot to be product. These Wagyu's, you got to feed them for like 400 days. Like right. Like you have to feed them for so long.

That's my. Economically they're not the best and attitude wise they are also not the best. I've been chased up the fence by Wagyu, so I've seen you chase up.

The fence a few times.

Hey, I get agile.

That one time at mpc climbed the solid fence. That was wild, man. That was an athletic thing I've seen you do.

Yeah, she's out of the club by a Wagyu once.

I'm still not totally sure how I made it up the fence, but that's, that's just, that's I guess adrenaline. I don't know.

I was legitimately scared of cows as a kid. I didn't, I didn't like getting around cows. They scared me because they're big and mean.

Not all of them.

Not all of them.

How many cows did you have the opportunity to be around as a kid?

A bunch. I mean I grew up basically in the country. My trailer park. I grew up in a trailer park out in the middle of nowhere. So it was. There was farms and ranches all around us.

So there's there's ranches all around me, but they don't let me pet their cows.

Well, we probably shouldn't have been on their land either, but. But we would go on their land all the time and hunt and fish and.

And you go, cat.

Yeah. Well, not really, but yeah.

Okay. Is cow tipping real?

No.

I mean, no, I don't think you could actually get that close. You know, it's like that scene on Tommy Boy when he falls down. You know what I'm talking about? They're cleaning him off with the gas.

I had never personally tried tipping a cow over just because. I don't know. Maybe I have more respect for cows than that. I don't know. But I. I've never tried.

Yeah, they stand on four corners. You know, it'd be kind of hard.

They're pretty stable.

They got a strong base. But, I mean, my showbowl growing up, you could just scratch him on his stomach and he'd fall over for you. So is that the same thing as cow tipping? I don't really know.

Yeah. Volunteer. Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I think we've tipped this episode, haven't we? We. We got more than just a tip out of this one. So.

I mean.

I mean, I think we got our branding across.

I think we. We have a deeper understanding of branding and the impact of branding in a variety of different industries, including agriculture.

I. I learned a lot about branding, and I will be able to incorporate so much of this into building my brand. I hopefully won't get stabbed with a hot iron, but the rest was Freeze brand.

Oh, it doesn't hurt forever. I learned something about Autumn. You know, I've been around Autumn quite a bit, and I've never heard her talk this much. I know, and I'm like, wow, this is. We're just having a con. We don't even have conversations like this in real life, like, in person. So this was. This was amazing.

You do realize if you talk about cows, I could talk all day.

Yeah.

Bring up other conversations. It's a different story. But, I mean, I've literally personally branded myself with cows.

I. I got in three different locations.

Three different locations.

We don't need to know those. Just that one right there is fine. Anyways. Well, hopefully you guys learned some. Something new about branding as well. I don't recommend the hot brand either. I mean, if you're gonna do anything, maybe the freeze. Maybe just get a tattoo, maybe.

I don't know, maybe an ear tag or something. Rfid. I don't know. Whatever. Whatever your brand is. May it. May it bring you peace and joy and happiness on this wonderful burgers on this wonderful April Fool's Day. So y'all be cool.

We'll see you on the next episode. Bye.