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Codependency in Entrepreneurship: Thriving in Business without External Validation -28
Episode 2815th May 2024 • Marli Williams - Let's Lead Together • Marli Williams, M.Ed.
00:00:00 00:36:58

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In the latest episode of the Marli Williams Podcast, we dive into the intersection of codependency and business with guest Alyssa Zander, a codependency and relationship coach. Together, we explore how professional challenges can be opportunities for personal growth, stressing the value of separating one's self-worth from external validations like business success (or failure). Alyssa elaborates on her personal journey overcoming codependency, providing insights on non-attachment strategies along with a guidance for doing inner child work. They emphasize building genuine connections in business, highlighting the importance of authenticity in communication and marketing and sharing who you are with your audience. Alyssa shares more resources, including her podcast and community, on her Instagram and through her Codependency Alchemy platforms. This episode is for anyone who struggles with codependency in any area of their life or business.

Alyssa's Bio:

Alyssa is a codependency and relationship coach, supporting women in stepping into their authenticity and joy through shadow work and healing codependency. She is the creator of Codependency Alchemy, a podcast and membership that is designed to support you in feeling seen and supported while breaking through the generational cycles that are keeping you from standing in your power.

Links:

Inner child healing guide: https://open.substack.com/pub/alyssaaazander/p/how-to-do-inner-child-healing-in?r=1p636g&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true

Podcast: https://alyssaaazander.substack.com/podcast

IG: https://www.instagram.com/alyssaaazander

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@alyssaaazander

YouTube: https://youtube.com/@alyssaaazander 

Transcripts

We feel it is important to make our podcast transcripts available for accessibility. We use quality artificial intelligence tools to make it possible for us to provide this resource to our audience. We do have human eyes reviewing this, but they will rarely be 100% accurate. We appreciate your patience with the occasional errors you will find in our transcriptions. If you find an error in our transcription, or if you would like to use a quote, or verify what was said, please feel free to reach out to us at connect@37by27.com.

Marli Williams [:

Hey everybody. What is happening? Welcome back to the Marli Williams podcast, where this week I'm hanging out with the incredible Alyssa Zander, who is the author of Healing the Mother Wound. She is a codependency and relationship coach, mentor, and guide. And I'm really, really excited about this conversation. It is full of gold nuggets, really around how to unattach from the codependency around our businesses. Right? So how can we create businesses that feel alive, aligned, and authentic? And how do we heal the parts of ourselves that get in the way of us fully doing that and embracing that. So I cannot wait to dive into this powerful conversation with you today. Let's do this.

Marli Williams [:

Hey, everyone. What's happening? I am super stoked to welcome you to the Marli Williams podcast, where we will explore authentic leadership, transformational facilitation, and how to create epic experiences for your audiences every single time. I am your host, Marli Williams, bringing you thought provoking insights, expert interviews, and actionable strategies to unlock your potential as a leader, facilitator, and speaker. Thank you for joining me on this journey of growth, transformation, and impact. Let's Lead Together the Marli Williams podcast. I will love you. Welcome back to to the Marli Williams podcast. Super stoked to hang out with Alyssa Zander today.

Marli Williams [:

She is a codependency and relationship coach. And she's just a phenomenal human being. We got to have a super fun adventure together going to the alt summit in Palm Springs a few weeks ago. And we really got to explore just this whole idea of, like, codependency as it's related to our life, our businesses. When we think about codependency, often we think about it as it relates to relationships specifically. So, Alyssa, I am super stoked to have you on the podcast and get to explore and dive into this really rich, juicy conversation with you today.

Alyssa Zander [:

Thank you so much for having me. I love when anyone wants to talk about codependency outside of relationships because I'm like, listen. You know, it shows up everywhere. Let me show you all the ways. So thanks for letting me have this conversation with you. Oh, thanks for being here.

Marli Williams [:

And, you know, it's so true. Right? When we think about this idea of codependency, so many people focus on the relational aspect of it, how we relate to one person versus, like, how do we relate to the world, our friendships, our clients, our business, our life as a whole. And I would love for you to share a little bit with the audience, like your journey, your background, kind of what brings you to this work that you do in the world. And then I'm really excited to dive in today. Yeah.

Alyssa Zander [:

I know. I'm like, where do I even start with, like, what brought me here? Like, that can be just like, it's a journey, and I will just give you guys, like, the cliff notes. I used to be a Montessori teacher, so my my background is actually in early childhood education. And that's when I started realizing I had a lot of unresolved trauma just from my own childhood, and that led me on a whole journey. Fast forward to pandemic, parents are with their kids. I'm not with their kids anymore, but I had spent years doing a lot of inner work and seeing how my codependency showed up in all my relationships with my work, with my with the children in my relationship. So once parents were with their kids, they were like, help? I need help, please. My child's crazy.

Alyssa Zander [:

And I'm like, actually, the child's great. Like, the child's perfect. Like, we're the ones that have some work to do. So that's kinda got how I got into coaching, I would say, in general. But now I'm just I'm sharing my story. You know, I'm sharing my story, my relationship with codependency and my romantic relationship and in my business as an entrepreneur. Because I truly believe that our business is our relationship with the deepest darkest parts of ourselves. And if we're not willing to bring awareness to that, then it will literally run us over again and again and again.

Marli Williams [:

It's so, so true. Right? When we look at our business as it's a relationship that we have. It's one of the relationships that we have. Right? We have a relationship with our business. If you're a business owner, if you have a job, you have a relationship with your job, relationship with your partner, with your kids, with the world, looking at all of these layers and all these levels. And, like you said, if we don't look at this, it will knock us over. It will knock us sideways. We we won't know how to handle it.

Marli Williams [:

We don't really understand the dynamics that play out. I think about my own journey. You know, I think we've all we've both been on our journeys of of codependency, of really, like, I'm okay if you're okay. Like, as, like, kind of a baseline of codependency. Like and I learned that and I've really had to unlearn that in my romantic relationships. But when I think about my business, it's like, I'm okay when my business is okay. Like, I'm okay when I'm making the money, when I'm getting the clients, when I'm booking the speaking, when people are signing up for the retreats. But when they don't, when the money isn't flowing, when the people aren't signing up, when the offer doesn't land, I make it mean so I make up a lot of stories about what that means about me.

Alyssa Zander [:

Once you're an entrepreneur for a certain amount of time, there really is no going back. It just doesn't seem possible at all. As you were talking, the thing that was really standing out for me in that, like, well, when my business isn't good, then, like, I'm not okay. When our business isn't good, quote, unquote, whatever those metrics are for you, that is to me, like, the sweetest spot to be in, and I'll tell you why. Because what your business is showing you in those moments where there's the dips, when there's like the ebbs or the contractions, you can whatever you call or however you relate to that to that time in your business. We all have them. It's happened before, and I promise you it's going to happen again. Those are moments where I see my business giving me an opportunity to grow my capacity for more.

Alyssa Zander [:

So when nothing is working, quote, unquote, right, when everything's broken, when, like, the followers stop or the likes stop or no comments are happening, no one's buying, nothing's selling out, like, everything's just kinda, like, plateaued, I use that time as an invitation to go within because those stories that you mentioned, we all have them. Right? No one likes me. No one wants to pay me. I'm not good enough. Why am I doing this? I don't provide value. Whatever the story that is coming up, that's your access point. Whatever the intrusive thought is, that's your access point. And what I mean by access point is, like, that's where you do the shadow work.

Alyssa Zander [:

If no one buys this retreat, if no one joins this retreat, what am I making that mean about me? It means I'm not good enough. If I'm not good enough, then what does that mean? Then that means I don't have value. If I don't have value, then what does that mean? Then that means that I'm, like, worthless. If I'm worthless, well then why am I here? So it's like, okay, well now that I've identified that this retreat is attached to my aliveness, my purpose, of course, I'm feeling some type of course, I wanna push it. Of course, I'm, like, grasping, trying to get people into this thing because I've made it mean something about my purpose. Right? So then what I do is I ask myself, where does that fear of not having purpose live in my body? And I go through a whole inner child practice. It's a 10 step guide where, like, basically all those questions I just mentioned and what I would go into after that, It's all laid out and, like, why the questions are important. We wanna get to the root of that wound and tend to it, and this is how I practice non attachment in my business.

Alyssa Zander [:

It's not nobody signing up for the offer. It's not about that. That's the mirror, Right? But it has nothing to do with that. It has everything to do with what I've attached to that offer.

Marli Williams [:

Yeah. What you're making it mean. Again, the story is around if someone signs up, then I'm valuable. So I'm relying on some external validation of my own sense of value and worthiness. And then, again, that story that gets made up when they don't sign up, I'm not valuable, and I'm not worthy. I love what you said around this, like, nonattachment. Like, how can I show up in my business with love and conviction and passion and energy and not be attached to the outcome, to the results, to the to that external feedback or validation that we oftentimes, like, associate with our value? Like, where do I build this capacity, like you said, in myself to know that, like, this is innately valuable. I am innately valuable.

Marli Williams [:

So I'm super curious. Right? Like, when we look at that spectrum of, like, overcaring and being attached versus not caring at all, where we can land in the middle and really find that, like, that sweet spot in our self and our business where we can show up from, like, a clearer, cleaner, more grounded place, especially when we're making offers or we're making invitations? Like, where's the come from? Where are we coming from?

Alyssa Zander [:

So I'll tell you what I do when it comes to offerings. So that can be when we when I'm saying offerings, I'm talking about a mastermind. I'm talking about a membership. I'm talking about some sort of, like, group container or even 1 on 1 coaching. Right? Some sort of offering where I am providing a service of some sort for my community. When I want to create and share an offering, the way that I see it is I am the channel and this is its own entity. So I'll use the solopreneur mastermind as an example. It dropped in the idea to hold a mastermind for solopreneurs because of everything that I've experienced, all the growth I've experienced in the last year.

Alyssa Zander [:

Right? I have learned a lot. I have started a podcast. I've gotten it to top 5%. I've built an email list from 700 to, like, almost 8,000 in, like, a year. Like, all these things that I've grown. My my social media account, right, like, in Palm Springs, like, that was popping off. Right? So I've learned a lot, and I felt like, okay, I have all this knowledge, this idea to hold a mastermind dropped in, instead of me saying, I wanna hold this mastermind because I wanna make money or because I wanna, you know, feel successful or I wanna pay my bills. I was just like, I have a lot of ideas and a lot of knowledge and information that I've learned because I've done it the wrong way a bunch of times to figure out, like, maybe a less, rocky road to take.

Alyssa Zander [:

And so I wrote down this is and this is the process I do for all of my offers. I wrote down solopreneur mastermind because that's what came through. And I said, what are you? Who are you? What does it look like? How many people are in this? What is the price? What's the intention behind it? So I started just talking to it like it's its own entity, and it's something outside of me. So now I'm just mother, and I'm just birthing it. And as mother birthing in in a non codependent way, it's like you come through me, but you are not mine. You do not belong to me. You are not validating that I am a good person or kind or generous. Like, I'm just the channel birthing through this idea.

Alyssa Zander [:

So when I put something out, if no one in my community wants it, I just like talk to it. Right? I'm like, hey, no one needs you, right now. No one in my community needs this. Maybe if it's supposed to drop in another time, it can. And I just like wash my hands of it. Right? Now, I'm not saying that, like, I don't get triggered as fuck in that time. Launching will bring out all your shadows. It's not so beautiful like how I just described it in that launch where no one is saying yes.

Alyssa Zander [:

I'm doing a lot of shadow work because I'm judging myself. I'm thinking I did it wrong. I'm saying I'm not good enough, but all of that is growing my capacity for the next time. Right? So it helps me when I see it as its own entity because it helps me take it less personally just slightly, just a little bit. Right? It's like, here's this thing that wants to come through me. Here's the container. Does anyone wanna join the container? Nope. Nobody wants it right now.

Alyssa Zander [:

Okay. Let's close it. And there's been a lot of times where when I was in that graspy energy, I like I needed people to sign up because I needed to pay my bills. That's a very real thing for entrepreneurs, right? Like we have bills to pay and our and our incomes fluctuate. Like, that's a real feeling. And when I was in that graspy energy, I'll never forget it, I put out this offering. No one joined. No one.

Alyssa Zander [:

Zero people. And it broke me and it actually made me completely reevaluate the way I was relating to my my business. I was like, I don't want to ever need people to pay my bills in that way. Like, if I can't pay my bills through my business, I'm not gonna ask my business to run a marathon when it just birthed it. When we're new in business, it's just like, it's wild that we want it to, like, make us a $100,000 a year when it just, like, came out the womb. Right? It's like such an unrealistic expectation.

Marli Williams [:

We don't wanna skip that kind of infancy kinda toddler phase and be like, I have a college student. Like, I have an adult you know? It's like, it's fully formed versus, like, it really requires a lot of of patience, especially at the beginning of that journey. And it's a very noisy world out there, and there's a lot of information coming at people all the time. Again, how do we share our message in a way that can cut through the noise and break through the screen to the other side to the people that, you know, I think that we all have medicine to share, and we're all kinda healers in our own way. And I think some people are like, again, it's like, help me help you. Like, I have medicine, and I wanna I wanna support you in your journey. And we also can't want it more than they do. Right? And so I think one part of, like, codependency in business as far as, like, service based entrepreneurs that I've gotten stuck in and caught up in is, like, being overly responsible for people's results.

Marli Williams [:

And and this kind of again, when we're sharing our offers, I think everyone wants to see, like, as a result of this retreat mastermind program, you're gonna make 6 figures in 6 days. And, like, everyone wants this, like, silver bullet, blue pill, instant gratification, and, like, we're taught as kind of entrepreneurs to, like, what's the outcome. And I remember even, like, trying to sell camp or retreats or things. It's like, what am I gonna get people? What am I gonna get out of this? I'm like, you're gonna get exactly what you need to get. People like to see the list of the bullet points. And then I think my fear as an entrepreneur has been like, you know, when we see these all these crazy results and testimonials that people have gotten in their ROIs and their 6 figures, 7 figures, And most often, those are, like, anomalies. And yet that's what ropes people in, draws people in because they're like, oh, I want that because it's like hitting some, like, wound in them or whatever. And I really hesitate to share those types of outcomes because I don't wanna be attached like, again, feeling responsible for someone else's result.

Marli Williams [:

So I'd be curious to hear your thoughts about holding these containers, how we can, again, Marli, offers, sell things in a ethical authentic way, and not hold ourselves hostage to feeling responsible for other people's outcomes and results. And, like, that codependency, like, if you get the result, then I'm a good coach. But if you don't, I suck.

Alyssa Zander [:

Yeah. You had said something like, how do we break through the noise? And it's like, authenticity. Like, authenticity is how you break through the noise. People don't say yes to work with me because of the result I'm promising them because I'm not promising any result. I can't possibly freaking know what you need or what your inner child needs. Like, I can tell you the questions to ask for you to figure that out. Right? But also you have to take the time and have the curiosity to do that work. But I think people and I've been told this from clients.

Alyssa Zander [:

Like, they pay me because they know me. Right? And they know me because I share my story very intimately publicly. Like everyone knows everything that I've been through and everything that I'm going through, whether that's in my relationship or in my business. I'm modeling what is possible when you do this work, when you are continuously bringing your awareness to your codependency patterns, the process of what that looks like. I'm doing it in real time, whether that's off of my Instagram stories or on my podcast. So it's like, I think that's how you cut through the noise. I'm hardly ever selling. I feel like I'm telling people what's available.

Alyssa Zander [:

I mean, a

Marli Williams [:

couple things that you said, really shifting from the idea of even selling, of just like, this is what I'm up to. This is what's happening. If you wanna hang out and play in the playground, like, I'm here. You know, sometimes for me, and I've seen this happen for other people, our illusion in our own mind of when we share something one time, we think everybody knows about it.

Alyssa Zander [:

Everyone's knocking. They're just waiting at the door. Right?

Marli Williams [:

We shared it once, and then we're like, why is nobody signing up for the thing?

Alyssa Zander [:

Marli, seriously, I mean, I can't tell you how many marketing books I've read, you know, because you wanna get it out. What are other people doing? I don't know. I'm trying all these things. But I'm like, people say they open cart or whatever, and then they sell out in 30 seconds. And I'm like, I've never experienced that. And I only just now with the Mastermind, or, you know, for lack of better words, I like open the doors for a Mastermind. And I had 3 people buy in the first 30 minutes, and I was like, woah, that's the first time I've ever experienced that. But I've been in business for over 3 years.

Alyssa Zander [:

Like, that took time to get to that point. And those people have been following me in my journey for who knows how long, but I think I I had to ask myself what changed? Why why did that happen this time when it's never happened before? When I've done email marketing, right, like, I've done, like, email sequences, and it's never worked before. And I was like, oh, because for the last year, I've sent newsletters every single week with a lot of value. Right? There's just more trust. So it's like also remembering that things take time. And oftentimes we just show up that one time and say, hey, I have something for sale. And then have you even talked to them? Have you talked to them for the last how many months? When was the last time you reached out to your email list and told them what was up with you? Right, what's going on with you without trying to sell them anything. And most of us haven't ever done that.

Alyssa Zander [:

And I so last year, I was like, I'm just gonna write to them. I call it a newsletter and write to them every week and let it be what I'm processing and what's messy and what's moving on, moving through me, and sharing podcast episodes, and free resources, and just, like, constantly connecting. And now that I'm selling things, people give a fuck. I wonder why. There's a book

Marli Williams [:

that I love. It's called the go giver. Essentially, this philosophy of giving to people, again, from a a really a genuine authentic place, not to receive anything, not to get anything back in return, generosity and then making offers or invitations and kinda looking at, well, what is that ratio? Is it anytime I'm sharing, I'm always making a pitch and always making an ask. What ways and this is a good question to ask yourself if you're listening to this and you're an entrepreneur or business owner. In what ways am I building that know, like, and trust factor through value? And I think that that's sometimes one of my spin outs is I I can get frustrated. I'm like, I've been doing this for 8 years. Why isn't it working? Why isn't it landing? What am I missing? What am I not saying? What am I not doing? What am I not communicating? And I love retreats, and I love creating transformation. I love holding those containers.

Marli Williams [:

And if they sold out, I wouldn't have to focus on, like, all the the marketing and sharing and inviting. I could just focus on creating really epic experiences, which is, like, what I'm here to do. So it's all a fascinating journey.

Alyssa Zander [:

Yeah. That in between of, you know, sharing the retreat and holding the retreat where you're trying to find the people who are the best fit for the retreat when you're in that selling mode and all those stories are coming up. Like that inner work is preparing you to hold the retreat. Right? And so I think that when we can use that, because that's a launch, right? You're in launch mode at that point. Like when we can really use that time to not only do the shadow work, but like the inner child work is what's so important. That's what usually people aren't doing. Just like where does that fear live in your body? How old is that part of you? Because there's a part of you that keeps playing it out, especially if you notice that it happens every single time. There's a part of you that's playing that out.

Alyssa Zander [:

I noticed, like, if something continues to repeat and the more inner child work I do, the less activated I am in launches. Yeah. I'll still get, like, I'll still get those feelings from time to time, but I'm like, okay. I know this part of me that's coming up. I'm gonna sit with that part. I'm gonna validate it. You're scared. You're scared no one's gonna show up.

Alyssa Zander [:

You're scared you're gonna be alone. You're scared that you're not worthy. Like, that's valid. What do you want? What do you want? Belonging, acceptance, to feel loved. Right? Okay. What do you need? I need you to see me. I need you to hear me. Okay.

Alyssa Zander [:

How will you feel when you get that need met? I'll feel happy. I'll feel joyful. I'll feel easeful. I'll feel at peace, I'll feel free. Okay, well now I need to do that work to tend to that part of me. That means spending time with myself, hearing myself. What does that look like? Does that look like journaling? Does that look like going on walks outside? Does that mean having conversations with myself?

Marli Williams [:

Right? Yeah. And I I really appreciate you walking walking people through that process. Right? Because so often, we're on to the next thing. We wanna distract ourselves. We wanna just power through. That's like the old way of doing things and realizing, like, actually, that doesn't work. Something isn't working. Instead of trying to power and push through.

Marli Williams [:

Oftentimes, what it looks like is just what you described. It is the slowing down and getting quiet and being with ourselves, which for many people can be really uncomfortable, or they've never sat with themselves long enough or asked themselves those questions or connected to their inner child. Because, you know, I think, again, in that launch mode, we're all wired for belonging. And kind of that the yes that we get from somebody else is like, I belong. And it's this this feedback loop that we're constantly looking for versus the invitation in unraveling from codependency as it relates to our business is, you know, one of my mantras that I've really worked on cultivating is, like, I belong everywhere. And, again, unraveling from the offer even of, like, whether or not this fills or this doesn't or this flops or this is great or it's not. Like, it has nothing to do with my innate value and worthiness. What did you need in that moment? I needed to know that, like, I was okay no matter what.

Alyssa Zander [:

You just spoke it so beautifully. Right? There's our higher self kind of version of us that's like, I have belonging everywhere, and we love that part of ourselves and we need that part of ourselves. And there's a part of you that doesn't believe that though. Right? And I think that's what we miss is that we actually invalidate that part of us by coming in and saying, like, you belong everywhere. But this part of you doesn't believe that you belong everywhere. It believes that you don't belong. So it's actually more the healing is actually more in you don't feel like you belong here And being with that, you don't feel like you belong here. It it's like when you're a kid and, like, you're upset and your parents go, it's okay.

Alyssa Zander [:

You're okay. You're okay. Right? It's like, that's what we're doing to these parts of us when we're like, you make such a big difference in the world. You're so important. You're this, you're that. It's like, but this part of you doesn't believe that. So basically what you're saying it, like, so that part of you that says I'm not good enough.

Marli Williams [:

I don't belong. No one cares about me. No one's listening to me. And me being like, no, people hear you. Like, that's just saying like, nope, you're wrong. That part of ourselves just wants to be heard and seen and loved.

Alyssa Zander [:

That is what we need to say. It is what you're feeling makes sense. It makes sense why you would feel that way. It makes sense why you don't feel like you belong. Like, watch what happens when you say that, when you're really in those deep moments. Like, the other day, something really exciting happened in my business. I was so happy and immediately I had this intrusive thought come in and I was just like, what part of me is this? I'm doing this while driving. Right? It's like, you don't need to, like, close your eyes down and being in a meditation.

Alyssa Zander [:

You absolutely can. You know, that's that's accessible to you. Great. But I'm like driving and this intrusive thought comes flying in like you're gonna get hit by a car. And I was like, okay, what is going on here? What part of me is this? And I could just, like, feel this very, very young part of me kinda like coming through. And I was like, talk to me. What's going on? What are you afraid of? And she was like, there's too much good stuff. Like, there's too many good things going on.

Alyssa Zander [:

Like, something bad's going to happen. And given my childhood experience, it makes sense why I would feel that way. You know? And so I just said, yeah. It makes sense why you're afraid. There is a lot of good stuff going on right now. That can be scary. She immediately softened and I went into crying. I actually saw you right after this.

Alyssa Zander [:

I immediately went into like crying and bawling my eyes out, but but it wasn't because I was sad. It was because, like, she finally softened and I started feeling the joy, like, actual fucking joy, like deep joy. I just was so happy. I don't know if I've ever felt so happy in my entire life. Like, actually felt it to where it brought me to, like, hysterical tears. Not because I didn't say, oh, it's not so scary. We got this. We got this.

Alyssa Zander [:

We're gonna be okay. We're gonna persevere. The next thing is coming. No. I just said, yeah. This is fucking scary. It is a lot of good stuff at one time. I just and then it was like she let me feel.

Alyssa Zander [:

That's what it felt like. It felt like she was like, okay. It's safe enough to feel now.

Marli Williams [:

Thank you for sharing that example, because I think it's so helpful for people to to really get this. And in order to get to that place that feels genuine and authentic, not force and contrived, we have to be with the parts that we have maybe shunned, closed off, invalidated, repressed. I shouldn't feel this way. Suck it up, champ. It's not really that hard. Whatever the things that we heard even as little kids.

Alyssa Zander [:

What do we go and do usually when we are invalidating that part? We say I have to do more. Right? We go and do more. It's like, oh, well, if this isn't enough, then I need to do more. I need to do more. I need to do more. When really, you need to do less and, like, actually sit with what's present. And then the more is gonna just come naturally. When I'm doing this work with clients, they can move through so much in a 10 minute session with me of us going back and forth.

Alyssa Zander [:

And because as soon as they tend to it, they have direction, they know exactly what they need. That part of you that you're not meeting has all the answers. It has all the answers. Every single I've never seen it not. I have never seen it not have the answers to exactly where you're meant to go and how you're meant to achieve that. The the way that that entrepreneurs and even just people who are experiencing things with their relationships, the way things take off after you just do that work, 10 minutes, you guys. Like, less than 10 minutes sometimes.

Marli Williams [:

Versus trying to force, again, force the answer or optical illusion in our mind and, again, our our society. It's like, if I wanna win and achieve, I have to do more versus slowing down, seeming like we're doing less, but we're doing this, like, really intense, deep, beautiful work to hold ourselves in that moment, it allows us to go inward rather than outside of ourselves, again, for the validation, for the answers, for the doing, for the action, for the more. It's like, okay. What's here? And then, like, you know, when you were with that part of ourselves, where do we wanna go from here now that I've held space for all of it?

Alyssa Zander [:

So good. When people talk about quantum leaping, that's what they're doing. You hear people talk about, it's like, how do you do that? This is how you do that. You collapse timelines when you do that. What would have taken you probably all week to figure out is now gonna take you an hour.

Marli Williams [:

Beautiful. So good. Oh my gosh. This conversation is gold. So if you listen to this the first time, go back, relisten to it. I always like to ask people their their golden nuggets, what they got out of the conversation, and what really resonated and landed for you. And before we end, I would love for you to share any final thoughts that you would like people to know on really kind of unraveling ourselves from codependency in our businesses and our life and any anything that you wanna leave people with? And and then where can people find you and your work? You have an incredible podcast, an incredible community, a newsletter. Like, she's amazing resources.

Marli Williams [:

So I'd love for you to share where people can learn more about you and your work in the world.

Alyssa Zander [:

Yeah. I think my final thoughts are just, it's okay if it's not working. Like, what if it was actually working? Like, what happens when we change the thought? Right? How does it feel in my body when I believe the thought that it's not working? And is that how I desire to feel in my life? The number one question I ask all my clients is how do you desire to feel in your life? Or how do you desire to feel in your relationship? Or how do you desire to feel in your business? And if what you're feeling isn't aligned to that, then that is your opportunity. And maybe that means you need to change something out physically. Right? Like like, I can't be doing newsletters and podcasts the way I've been doing it every single week. That is a lot. When I think about doing that for a whole another rest of the year, I'm like, I'm gonna burn out. So that doesn't feel aligned to how I desire to feel, which is, like, peaceful, easeful, spacious, and slow.

Alyssa Zander [:

So what can I do in my external environment to help provide that felt sense? And sometimes it's not something physical in your environment, it's mental. Right? It's the thoughts. How do I need to change the thought around this in order for me to feel spacious, peaceful, easeful, slow? Right? So that would be like my last thought, how do you desire to feel? Insert life, business, relationship, and then filter everything in your life through that. You are the creator. If you don't like it, change it.

Marli Williams [:

So good. Gold. Boom. Boom. Mic drop. So where can the where can people find you out in the world beyond this?

Alyssa Zander [:

Yeah. I live on Instagram y'all. So Alyssa Zander, live on Instagram. I have a podcast called Codependency Alchemy. I also have a membership also named Codependency Alchemy. It's the name of all the things. So it's the podcast. It's the membership on Substack.

Alyssa Zander [:

If you wanna join a community of like minded women who are are healing from codependency in the mother wound, we don't have to do it alone. We absolutely can, but the point is is that we don't have to. So I would love to see you. Send me a DM if you listen to this episode and say hi. I literally check my DMs every single day. It brings me the most joy to interact with everyone. So you're welcome in my DMs, always.

Marli Williams [:

Well, I just wanna say thank you so much for sharing your heart, your love, your knowledge, your wisdom with the people out in the world today. I just think the work that you do is just so important unraveling from codependency so that we can be more aligned, more authentic, more in our sovereignty, our power. I'm so excited for people to get to witness you and your wisdom and your work. And thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being here with us today. And like Alyssa said, if you love this, if you like this, if it served you, it resonated with you, share this with your people, with your friends. Rate and review the podcast.

Marli Williams [:

Send Alyssa a DM. Tell her what you loved. Send me one too while you're at it. And can't wait to see you next time on the podcast. Alright, everybody. Take care. Thank you for joining us on another inspiring episode of the Marli Williams podcast. We hope you're leaving here with renewed energy and valuable insights to fuel your leadership, coaching, and speaking endeavors.

Marli Williams [:

I'd love to invite you to subscribe, rate, and review this podcast to help us reach more aspiring leaders and speakers like you. We have more exciting episodes and remarkable guests lined up, so make sure to tune in next time. Until then, keep leading with purpose, coaching with heart, and speaking with conviction. This is Marli Williams signing off. See you next week.

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