The Lions survived an unbelievable overtime battle against the Giants, powered by Jameer Gibbs’ 220-yard masterpiece and a 69-yard walk-off TD. In this episode of the Secondhand Lions Podcast, Bill and John break down the wild swings, defensive breakdowns, Branch’s penalties, O-line concerns, and standout special teams moments. They also look ahead to the Thanksgiving showdown with the Packers, discussing matchup risks, playoff implications, and predictions for a must-win NFC North clash.
Detroit Lions, Jameer Gibbs, Lions vs Giants, overtime win, Lions podcast, NFL Week, Lions Thanksgiving game, Packers vs Lions preview, Detroit vs Green Bay, Amon-Ra St. Brown drops, Lions defense struggles, Dan Campbell, Brad Holmes draft, Sam LaPorta injury, Brian Branch penalty, NFL overtime, NFC North playoff race.
Transcripts
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Bill: Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Secondhand Lions podcast. I'm here with my great friend John Drennan. I'm Bill Radford, and if you want to check us out, it's theshlpodcast.com. SHL stands for Secondhand Lions, and we're here to talk about the improbable
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Bill: win over the Giants yesterday.
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Bill: And looking forward to the traditional Thanksgiving contest this year between the Lions and the Packers.
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Bill: So I'll start off with just talking about Jameer Gibbs.
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Bill: What a phenomenal game that was. 220 yards rushing, and 69-yard…
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Bill: to the house on the first play of overtime.
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Bill: He was amazing, and it takes me back to when the Lions picked him.
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Bill: Brad Holmes and Dan Campbell in the draft room. I remember seeing a video of this, and whoever was choosing number 11, I don't remember who that was, when they didn't pick Gibbs.
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Bill: Holmes and Campbell were giddy. They started high-fiving and cheering because they knew what they had, and then, the supposed experts like Mel Kuiper and his lot were commenting that,
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Bill: they… reached
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Bill: For Gibbs. Now, if he did the draft over, he would probably be 1, 2, or 3. But, he was phenomenal yesterday, he's been phenomenal all year long.
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Bill: And it was just amazing to watch him Also.
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Bill: Our field goal kicker, Bates.
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Bill: Really came through. 59-yard field goal to tie the game.
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Bill: And the punter, Fox, kept the…
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Bill: Giants pinned down deep most of the game, and I was glad to see that,
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Bill: Dan Campbell didn't go for it once on 4th down, so…
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Bill: Those are my opening comments. John, let's hear what you have to say.
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John Drennan: Well, Bill, I gotta say, as Fox kept pinning them inside the 10 and the 20, I was thinking, what if we'd have done that against the Eagles every time?
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Bill: Yeah, we'd have won the game.
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John Drennan: Yeah, but it's easy to look in that rearview mirror, but man, improbable, that was a good word you used. What a win.
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John Drennan: I remember late in that fourth quarter, with all the developments in that game, I'm thinking the Giants are either destined to win this game, or the Lions are destined to have some kind of miraculous finish and win, because it just felt weird.
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John Drennan: And, you mentioned the Gibbs draft.
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John Drennan: You know, a lot of these experts, I don't… I think you're as much an expert as they are. You mentioned Mel Kipper, but so many people thought Gibbs was a bad draft pick at that point, number 12 in that year's draft, but you're right, what a great pick, and…
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John Drennan: What an absolutely amazing game, and you know, Bill, the amazing thing about the NFL, it was just a few games ago that Gibbs rushed for, I think, was 35 yards?
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John Drennan: And the big question was, where was he? What happened?
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John Drennan: I think that leads me into some of my comments, Bill. I want to make some general comments.
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John Drennan: Actually, that I found my confidence in the Lions shaken more this game than any time in the season.
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John Drennan: You know, all year long, I've been talking about this roster, these coaches, and I somewhat downplayed the rebuilding of the O-line. I somewhat downplayed the change in,
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John Drennan: coordinators somewhat downplayed that they didn't add another… add another edge rusher. But I'll tell you, I think the offensive line's got real hurdles.
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John Drennan: I… well, let me say this. I think the Lions have lost their mojo to some extent. Kind of that magic that we could see and feel, and
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John Drennan: And if that's the case, I think, A, they have to get it back to be a playoff contender, but B,
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John Drennan: there's no better time to get that mojo back than Thursday, Thanksgiving, playing the Packers. That's a game, Bill, I've said since the first game of the year.
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John Drennan: I was excited and couldn't wait for, because I wanted to exact some payback on Green Bay, and I think that's gonna happen. We'll get to Green Bay in a minute. Anyhow,
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John Drennan: I got a lot of comments that I haven't even gotten to, but those are some initial comments.
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John Drennan: You talked about the two really great things, I thought, Gibbs and then Bates' 59-yard field goal. How about some of the
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John Drennan: The problems that we experienced this game.
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Bill: Well, one problem is the defensive line
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Bill: Until the last play of the game did not get to Winston.
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Bill: Kudos to him.
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Bill: He… Was able to step out a couple of them. One time, he was…
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Bill: in the grasp of two of them, and he wriggled out. I mean, he's a big, strong guy, and he was the number one draft pick in 2015, so he's got a lot of talent.
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Bill: but he…
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Bill: He didn't get sacked, he didn't get pressured all that much, and he was able to find Oh.
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Bill: basically open receivers, most of the game. And sometimes, They just made great catches.
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Bill: There… there was 2 or 3 plays where they just made phenomenal catches, which… you juxtapose that against Amon St. Brown, who statistically had a fabulous game, but he dropped 2.
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Bill: that were right there. And one of them…
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Bill: ended a really good drive by the Lions. They'd start, I think, on their own 10, or near that. They'd gone all the way down. I think they were inside the 20, or close to it.
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Bill: And Goff hit him right in the hands.
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Bill: And he didn't catch it, and it deflected, and the Giants intercepted it, and that killed a…
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Bill: A drive that would have been points for sure, at least 3.
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Bill: And possibly 7.
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Bill: And I don't know what's going on with him.
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Bill: He corrected it the rest of the game, but he… he has been dropping passes that he never dropped before.
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John Drennan: Oh, you're right about that, and who's to know?
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John Drennan: We just hope that trend shifts, as it seemed to somewhat in this game.
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John Drennan: The other thing, Bill Jamo went missing again. He had one drop.
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John Drennan: Or 2. I think it was only targeted 3 times, and I don't believe had a catch.
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John Drennan: So that was a bit of a mystery. You know, I'm…
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John Drennan: I think at one point, he got kind of a pitch…
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John Drennan: I know I've been texting you non-stop during these games, get it to Jamo, pitch it, hand it off.
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John Drennan: Have him take the snap, give him a short slant, do something to get the ball in his hands, because he is also electric, and they're just not doing that.
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Bill: Well, he had one play, John, where he, he gained…
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Bill: I think it was about 30 yards, and it was called back for illegal man downfield, and I have to tell you, that penalty
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Bill: is… so wishy-washy in the NFL. I've seen so many plays
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Bill: Where the linemen are 3, 4, 5 yards downfield, and it's not called.
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Bill: And that was called when one of our linemen was about a yard and a half downfield, and you're not supposed to be more than a yard.
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Bill: So… That was,
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Bill: That was unfortunate, because he was on his way, and he hit… it was a really good game, and we… I think we ended up having to punt.
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Bill: But, you're right, they don't…
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Bill: Use him enough, or he's not getting open enough.
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Bill: or golf is… I think he… when he's feeling stress.
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Bill: His go-to guy is St. Brown.
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Bill: And… you know, he had a nice game. I think he had…
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Bill: 9 or 10 catches for over 100 yards, but
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Bill: He's gonna have to stop those drops.
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Bill: You know, Bill, you must…
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John Drennan: What's that.
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Bill: Absolutely.
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Bill: Tesla is… Non… a non-factor.
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John Drennan: Yeah, he had a target that last drive, and it came up short. Now, the announcer mentioned pressure, that might be why it came up short, or Tesla might not have cut the route to where Goff threw the ball. We don't know, but I'd like to see more of him.
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John Drennan: And I'll tell you, Bill,
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John Drennan: I mentioned my concern for the offensive line, they seem good on the run.
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John Drennan: But pass protection is still an issue, and with Green Bay coming up, you know, talking about things to clean up, that's one thing.
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John Drennan: Secondly, And I…
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John Drennan: Early in the year, I was talking about Brian Branch, one of the top two safeties in the league, and what an awesome player, but I'm starting to be annoyed, as is the entire fan base, how he's getting a
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John Drennan: You know, personal foul every game, another helmet-to-helmet.
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John Drennan: And I've always defended player, you know, a lot of those plays are happening so fast, and how do you adjust when you're running full speed? You don't know what the ball carrier's gonna do. Sometimes you just can't prevent it. But for him, it's like an every-week situation, so another 15-yard penalty there.
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John Drennan: And…
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John Drennan: I mean, I don't know what they'll do to clean it up, but I feel like they have to.
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John Drennan: You know, the defense gave up two trick plays for touchdowns, which, kudos to the Giants for pulling that off, but this combination of, and you said it, Bill, lack of pressure from the defensive line.
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John Drennan: makes it impossible for the D-backs to cover even these second-rate receivers that all looked like all-pros. You know, the defense gave up 517 yards and all those passing yards, but you gotta pressure the quarterback.
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John Drennan: So, there's a lot to work on, what else you got?
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Bill: Well, Campbell says… keeps talking about cleaning it up,
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Bill: They need to call somebody to clean it up, because…
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Bill: They're talking about that every week. We have a few things to clean up, and we will, but…
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Bill: It seems like…
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Bill: You know, they… they… they don't clean it up.
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Bill: And I feel bad for Branch, because on that play, he broke up the pass, stopped… it was an incompletion.
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Bill: I mean, if he hits the guy, 5 or 6… inches lower.
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Bill: You know, he doesn't hit his helmet.
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Bill: I don't think they call it, but it's gone to the point in the NFL now where if you hit a guy too hard, you get a penalty.
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Bill: And, there's… there's some… that was helmet to helmet, so it was justified, but…
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Bill: Some of that is just, unnecessary, I think.
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Bill: But you're right about the… the line, the defensive line. I mean, they… they sacked,
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Bill: Didn't they sack Hertz a bunch of times, and they sacked…
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Bill: somebody else, I forget now, 5 times.
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John Drennan: I think Hertz was just one and a half sacks.
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John Drennan: But yeah, there was somebody before that.
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Bill: Well, they… then they… they had a lot of pressure.
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Bill: I think they sacked McCarthy a few times, but…
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Bill: You know, for… you mentioned 518 yards.
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Bill: To only score 27 points on 518 yards is pretty good.
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Bill: I mean, that's 5 times down the field, With 18 yards left over.
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Bill: So…
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John Drennan: Yeah, and Bill, so many of the Giants' plays, I'm thinking… that's why I was thinking maybe it was… they were…
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John Drennan: divinely gonna win the game, because they were such unlikely plays. Let me go through this real quick. On the last drive prior to the overtime, the Giants, at 8 minutes and 20 seconds, they have 3rd and 10, and it's looking good.
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John Drennan: That's when, Winston threw it from his end zone, looked like a lob, like it could have been picked off. No, it was completed at the 38-yard line.
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John Drennan: First down.
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John Drennan: Then at 5 minutes, 36 seconds… er, I'm sorry, 6 minutes, 40 seconds, they're at 3rd and 6.
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John Drennan: Incomplete pass. Brian Brands gets called for that penalty where his hand reached out and grabbed the thigh of the receiver, but…
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John Drennan: you know, that happens every play. That… even the announcers said, you know, I've seen worse, they questioned the call. But then, Bill, the mind blower, 5.36 to go. 3rd and 17.
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John Drennan: It looked like we've got Winston sacked.
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John Drennan: He steps out of it, cuts to his left, throws the ball 40 yards in the air, completed to the Giants, 19.
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John Drennan: Now, at that point, we're going, they're gonna score a TD, and we are in big trouble. What do they do? They gain a yard on a run.
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John Drennan: Had a loss of 3 through an incomplete, and not in that order, by the way. They had a gain of 1, then an incomplete, then a loss of 3. What do they do? Give us a gift. They go for it on…
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John Drennan: 4th and 5, incomplete pass, allowing us to tie it with that field goal, so…
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John Drennan: That was a gift, and you know, Bill, that… the Giants up till yesterday, and by the way, we're recording this the day after.
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John Drennan: Which I should have said up front, because we haven't had a chance to process all this, but it is Monday, the week of Thanksgiving, and up until yesterday's game, Bill, the Giants had leads in the fourth quarter four times where they lost the game.
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John Drennan: So yesterday was number 5, so…
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John Drennan: I don't know, maybe the coach said we're supposed to lose, let's, go for it and not kick the field goal a bit.
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Bill: Yeah, that… that… well, you know…
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Bill: If he goes for it and they score, then he's a hero.
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John Drennan: Yep.
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Bill: I really think he was looking at the clock, thinking 2.53,
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Bill: is when the Lions got the ball back.
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Bill: And he's thinking, if we kick a field goal, they're gonna… Get the ball on…
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Bill: Probably their own 30 or better.
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Bill: And so they're gonna have to go…
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Bill: 65, 70 yards for a touchdown with
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Bill: Two and a half minutes, which is plenty of time.
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Bill: Right.
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Bill: He's trying to win the game on that play.
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Bill: And fortunately for the Lions, they didn't get it.
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John Drennan: And Bill, he's not only trying to win the plays, he's trying to win the head coaching job, maybe thinking, we score here.
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John Drennan: I'm a strong candidate.
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Bill: Yeah, that's… that's true as well.
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Bill: But there's gonna be a lot of people that are gonna want that job. I've heard names like,
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Bill: Bill Belichick.
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Bill: Coming back to the Giants from Carolina, he's denied it, but…
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Bill: Those kind of denials are taken with a grain of salt.
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Bill: Anyway, you want to talk about the Packers?
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John Drennan: Yeah, just a couple more things from the Giants. First, I want to make sure everybody saw, and if not, go back to the Gibbs 69-yard touchdown run.
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John Drennan: in overtime, after Gibbs cuts through and gets past the initial line and past Panay Sewell's block.
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John Drennan: Panay Sewell turns, sees Gibbs running, puts up his hand showing the touchdown. He knew, and Gibbs still had 50-plus yards to run, but that was just kind of hilarious.
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Bill: fun.
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John Drennan: I want to make these points, Bill. Lions had 9 penalties for 81 yards. That's one thing they absolutely have to clean up.
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John Drennan: Last, special teams were very good in this game, so kudos to that.
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John Drennan: The stadium was so loud during that overtime.
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John Drennan: And kudos to the fans, because there was a lot of booing prior to that.
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John Drennan: We obviously missed Sam Laporta big time, so we got a challenge.
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John Drennan: With tight-end position going forward.
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John Drennan: The play calling, to me, lacked, again, in many ways.
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John Drennan: And then finally, I want to give kudos, because Hutch has given so much attention for the last play of the game sack as he deserves, but Aleem McNeil just bull-rushed his guy into Jameis Winston, causing Winston to have to cut in, and that's when Hutch got him. So, to me, that was McNeil and Hutch, and
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John Drennan: Love seeing those two guys kind of finishing it off, so…
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John Drennan: I just wanted to get in those comments, and… So, Bill, in regard to Green Bay, I've been saying since, that very first game, I can't wait till Thanksgiving. I want payback, I think the Lions will, and…
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John Drennan: As I said earlier, I've got some real loss of confidence in the Lions, but if you're a Green Bay fan, I think you're thinking the same. Wins they've had lately, they've won barely, their offense seems to be in shambles, they've had a lot of injuries, they're…
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John Drennan: They're great tight ends out for the year. They've got their share of struggles.
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John Drennan: But I tell you, Micah Parsons has been a game wrecker, and their defense is very good, so… What are your thoughts on, Turkey Day?
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Bill: Well, I really… I don't like playing the Packers on Thanksgiving, because historically.
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Bill: It hasn't gone well for us. Two years ago, we played them on Thanksgiving and lost.
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Bill: The year we went 12-5, But,
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Bill: I'm hopeful. I don't think they're as good as…
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Bill: People expected them to be at the beginning of the year.
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Bill: I'm just looking at their stats for, parsons had 2 sacks.
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Bill: on, Sunday against Minnesota.
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Bill: But, you know, they give up a lot of sacks. They gave up a lot of sacks to Detroit when they beat us.
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Bill: Yeah, I'm with you. It's like the Bill Parcells thing. You are who… what your record says you are.
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Bill: And they're 7 and 4, and in my mind, they should be 9 and 2.
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Bill: They should not have won.
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John Drennan: about the Lions, right?
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Bill: Right.
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John Drennan: Yeah.
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Bill: They're 7-4, I think they should be 9-2, they lost…
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Bill: to the Vikings, which they should never have done.
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John Drennan: Right?
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Bill: And… and I think… Like you mentioned, if they would have punted the ball on those fourth downs.
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Bill: Against the Eagles, and that horrible weather day.
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Bill: When the Eagles' offense wasn't doing anything.
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Bill: They'd have punted the ball and pinned them deep, I think they would have won that game.
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Bill: So… I think they should be 9-2.
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Bill: But they're not… That's their own fault.
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Bill: Some of it's the players, some of it's coaching, some of it's injuries.
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Bill: had a couple unfortunate penalties called on us, but every team has that.
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Bill: So…
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Bill: I'm not overly confident that they'll beat, the Packers, but I'm still picking them anyway. They're 3-point favorites.
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Bill: Which… You know, the Lions were 14.5 point favorites against the Giants.
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Bill: So… You can take the… Vegas odds with a grain of salt. They're usually More accurate than that.
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Bill: but anyway, they're 3-point favorites, which means it's a pick'em.
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Bill: Because you figure a home field is worth 3 points.
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Bill: So… -Oh.
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Bill: I think it'll be close.
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John Drennan: You got a score?
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Bill: I do.
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Bill: 2320, Lions.
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John Drennan: Alright.
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John Drennan: Well, and folks, again, we're two long-time fans, been watching Thanksgiving games since… I'm sure I watched my first in the late 50s if we had a TV. I… to me, Thanksgiving always means Detroit Lions.
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John Drennan: And so, it's a fun one.
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John Drennan: And Bill, like you, I… so I mentioned earlier, I think the Lions have kind of lost their mojo, I've kind of lost some confidence.
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John Drennan: So, I'm going to predict we see a return of their mojo here on Thanksgiving Day, and as a result, they get a win. If we don't see that, we're not gonna see a win.
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John Drennan: But I predict, 2120
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John Drennan: in a close game, good defense. Our defense has to play better, and I think they will.
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John Drennan: And, it's gonna be fun, seeing the Ford Field.
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Bill: We're predicting a one-point victory.
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John Drennan: 2120.
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John Drennan: The new one.
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Bill: Are you ready? Are you ready for a same old Lions from Thanksgiving Games?
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John Drennan: I hope not.
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John Drennan: We've had too many of those.
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Bill: Well, I'm gonna give you one.
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John Drennan: Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you meant we're gonna have a new one. No, give me one from the past.
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Bill: This is a long time ago.
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Bill: I think it was about 1980.
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Bill: Lions are playing the Bears.
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Bill: Lions are ahead by a touchdown.
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Bill: The Bears have the ball, it's 4th down and goal from about the 5-yard line.
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Bill: And… The quarterback scrambles around and
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Bill: Runs it in for a touchdown to tie the game. The Bears win the toss, they take the ball, and they run the kickoff back for a touchdown.
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Bill: So, in the space of two plays.
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Bill: And what I remember is… we're sitting in our basement in Garden City, Michigan. I'm sitting on the couch with my dad, my Uncle David, my Uncle Charlie, and
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Bill: We're watching that game together.
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Bill: And when the… bears… Kickoff, return.
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Bill: Went for a touchdown, nobody said anything.
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Bill: We just all got up and walked upstairs to the Thanksgiving dinner, but nobody said a word.
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Bill: We were all pretty glum.
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Bill: So… I'm hoping that doesn't happen.
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Bill: I'm hoping for a win.
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Bill: And, I think it'll be close.
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Bill: But like you, I think this is, almost a must-win game.
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Bill: I think they can go to the playoffs if they don't win it.
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Bill: But it'll be harder.
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Bill: 8 and 4 sounds pretty good.
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Bill: 7 and 5, not so much, so let's hope for the best here.
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John Drennan: Yeah, Bill, and I think it could, you know, a Lions win could end up leading us toward a showdown, the last game of the season at Soldier Field that could be very exciting, as the Bears continue to win. However, the Bears have a gauntlet coming up. They play the Eagles, they play the Packers twice.
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John Drennan: And, not sure who else, but…
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John Drennan: Anyhow, right now, we gotta take care of business on Thanksgiving Day, and you know, you've shared that same old lion's story, and…
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John Drennan: as you're sharing that, I'm feeling good knowing that
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John Drennan: We haven't had a same old Lions game experience.
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John Drennan: I would say since Campbell took over. I mean, that first year, they lost games, but they showed grit, they showed progress, and they didn't have the kind of game where, like you said.
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John Drennan: your basement's so excited because the Lions score, they're gonna win, and literally one play later, it's like, well, let's go eat. I mean, we haven't had that, and it's so refreshing. What we have done is done that to teams.
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John Drennan: I mean, think of being a Giants fan right now, and they're saying, there's another game, there's no way we should have lost that.
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John Drennan: There's…
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Bill: Yo?
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John Drennan: And…
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John Drennan: you know, you mentioned we should be 9-2. Well, based on yesterday, let's adjust, we should be 8-3, you know, because we had no business winning that game.
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John Drennan: But… we feel like we had no business losing to the Vikings, so it all…
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John Drennan: Tends to even out that way.
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Bill: Yeah, I'm just looking at the Bears' schedule. They got Eagles, Packers, Browns, you know, the Browns can beat you.
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John Drennan: Yeah.
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John Drennan: Especially now with Sanders, because it's a wild card.
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Bill: Eagles, Packers, Browns, Packers, 49ers… at 49ers, and then ending with the Lions.
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Bill: So… That is a gauntlet.
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Bill: I'm hoping they lose… At least 3 or 4 of those.
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Bill: kind of mixed, feelings about playing the Packers.
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Bill: Depends on what we do on Sunday, or Thursday.
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John Drennan: Yeah.
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Bill: John, I hope you have a great Thanksgiving.
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John Drennan: Hey, Bill, just one more thing. You mentioned on Thursday. I mean, today's Monday.
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John Drennan: They're playing in 3 days, and so, obviously, the Packers and Lions both played yesterday. It's a very short week. Knock on wood, the Lions seem to have come out of yesterday's games with no real injuries, no additional players out. Packers, I think, got banged up a little bit, so it's,
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John Drennan: this short week for both teams, it's gonna be interesting, and I think coaching's gonna be a huge part of this game coming up for that reason, so…
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Bill: They got two Thursday games in a row. They got this week against the Packers, and the following Thursday against the Cowboys.
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John Drennan: Yep, at home again.
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John Drennan: So, hey, I know you're traveling for Thanksgiving. I'm not, but we're hosting a bunch of people. We will be watching the game. I don't know, folks, when we'll be doing the podcast, maybe the day after. It might be the following week, most likely, as we prepare for the Cowboys coming in, but…
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John Drennan: You guys have a great Thanksgiving trip, my friend. Go Lions!
