Can art therapy for healing unlock new pathways to emotional resilience and self-discovery? In this inspiring conversation, Mindful Arts Coach Susan Day joins Jeanne Willson to share how mindful arts therapy and creative expression for mental health can help people of all ages. Discover how using art for anxiety relief, healing trauma with art therapy, and building emotional resilience through creativity can transform lives.

We also explore art therapy for teens and adolescents, the benefits of art therapy for women over 50, and how mindfulness and art therapy practices integrate with meditation and art for deeper self-awareness. This episode highlights self-discovery with art therapy while connecting to six figure business coaching, blueprints for brilliance, and coaching insights.

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Welcome everyone to today's episode.

I'm thrilled that you join me today, and I'm also thrilled to have Susan

Day all the way from Australia.

She is an arts therapist and an art coach, so I'm excited to hear more about that.

So welcome to the show, Susan.

It's lovely to have you.

Thank you for having me.

It's so lovely to be here.

Let's start out telling everyone a little bit about you and your journey

and how did you become an art therapist?

So I started, I've always been drawing, I've always been writing

and I had various careers.

I, uh, used to be a teacher and an English major with all sorts of stuff like that.

And I was living in the country, small country town, and somebody asked me

to edit their thesis actually been rejected because the English was so poor.

And it was about art therapy.

My gosh, this is a thing you can do.

Like it's about a hundred years old.

So I've taken a bit while to catch up.

It was one of those moments and I was like, this is, I get this.

I don't know anything about it.

I didn't know.

I assumed it was really complex and the color is in some ways.

It's a little bit like a pyramid approach.

You, you conduce a few marks on a piece of paper, but underneath there's these layers

and layers and layers of stuff happening.

Yeah.

So it just really spoke to me and I was already, I've always, always

been interested in meditation and mindfulness and for me, the more I

learned about art therapy, the more I realized that you need to be in a

mindful state to get the best out of it.

You, you don't have to be.

So I just felt the two were just married together beautifully.

I love that.

So how long have you been doing it?

That's seven or eight years.

Yeah.

Okay.

I can't believe that it started with you editing a thesis

that's just so serendipitous.

Yeah, absolutely.

Isn't it?

Yeah.

It was just this moment of, and, and the lady was very funny.

She's very casual, you know, she was like, oh, you know, I, you know, and

I was reading this stuff and, and I edited it and I, and you know, as you

do when you edit, you pull things apart.

And I said, you, I hope you don't mind.

And she loved it.

She was great.

And she got a pass and yeah.

But it was just this, oh my gosh.

You can use art not only to heal yourself, which I think most artists and most people

understand art do, but also you can.

You can use it to help others and people who don't, you

don't even have to like art.

You don't even have to be good at art to really benefit from it.

I actually have two kids who are artistic.

One is at small, uh, private university for the arts, and

he's actually an illustration, and the other one is starting.

Actually, she's leaving this Saturday to start university and

uh, she is in the arts program.

She wants to study sculpture.

Two very worthy modalities.

Yeah.

It's so interesting though.

The classes they get to take, I mean, it's not just, you know, whatever

they're doing, you know, illustration, what I say sculpture, but get to do so

many other really interesting things.

The first year they always have them try out all different modalities

just to see, you know, there might be something else that jumps out at you.

Tell me about art therapy.

What kind of people come to you?

What kind of people do you help?

How do you help them?

You know, you mentioned you put two lines on a piece of paper, you

know, how do you interpret that?

So, I, I tend to work at either end of the spectrum of age, so predominantly

teenagers as well, particularly terrible issues with anxiety, but

also work, work with older women.

They're, they're my focus in many ways because we've brought our families out.

We've made all these sacrifices, and now it's time for us to find ourselves.

In Australia, there's a phenomenon they call the silver splinters, which is

where older people, once the kids have left home and everything's happened,

suddenly, a couple might decide they don't really like each other anymore.

They're separate.

And this puts women at a terrible, a terrible financial disadvantage,

but also an emotional one as well.

They're the two extremes.

I do obviously work with people in between, but on the whole it's women in

the over 50 and sort of pre-teens and the early teens, that sort of areas.

So when they come to you, let's start with the teens.

You know what, where do you start with them?

It's really difficult actually.

I was talking to a, a coach here in Australia and I said to her one of the

most difficult things about working with teens is they're usually not made to come,

but they're usually encouraged to come and they can be quite defensive, and they,

and they're obviously very suspicious.

And a bit worried.

And you know, who's a strange woman and why does she like pencil so much?

And you know, most of the adults in my life are not that keen on

paint, but she's woman, she's crazy.

It's not like, uh, when, uh, when an older adult comes to you, they, they, you know,

they might have paid their money, they wanna listen and they want your help.

And, um, so there's a lot of, I guess there's kind of a lot of dancing,

not dancing around, but you have to skirt around certain things.

Yesterday, for example, I had a young lady and I said, how did you go?

Like we, we work on Zoom with online a lot.

And she said, oh, it's, I can't tell you it's a secret 'cause she'd done.

And I said, okay, that's fine.

And that, that's cool.

She, she also has moments where she turns the screen off, whereas an

adult probably wouldn't do that.

She says, you know, she needs to, whatever's happening and, and so I

could be talking to a blank screen.

So they, they're, they're the, they're, the major differences I find is that

obviously adults much more engaged, much more interested, and they want

you to tell 'em everyth, but the teens are a bit like, oh, I don't

dunno about this, you know, that.

Well, it, that totally makes sense.

And, and from having, you know, not long ago had teenagers, you know,

I can totally understand that.

And them turning off the screen and stuff.

And as mine were.

In school during COVID, the horror stories they tell about the kids who didn't,

you know, didn't even, weren't even in the room and just turned their cameras

off, but they were allegedly there.

How do you choose what type of, I don't know, instruments you use color.

How does the art part come into the therapy?

Uh, I suppose essentially, if we keep in mind the art therapy is not

about producing a piece of artwork.

It's not about producing something you might hang on the wall.

I always encourage people to keep a journal because they can see the progress.

Progressive stages they've been through.

But if you wanna chuck it away, if you wanna rip it up, burn it, you do

that too, because that can be very,

but there are different materials and mediums that I would use

for different conditions.

So broadly, somebody who's suffering from anxiety, they might be quite heightened.

Um, the breath is very short.

So definitely start with a guided meditation that I will write.

In a way that it leads them into the first or the theme of the session.

Every session has a theme and also, so we might look at using things

like, like color pencils or gel pens.

Take a little bit.

You have to slow down to use them.

That's what I'm trying to say.

So like gel pens are fabulous.

You know, you get that beautiful sort of uniform, bright, thick color,

but you have to use 'em slowly.

So we use it.

We do that with breath work as well.

So you take a nice, long, deep breath and you might just

then begin to color something.

Very, very slowly.

It just brings a whoosh, your nervous system down.

On the other hand, you might have somebody who's oppressed

or, or feeling very blue and.

It's used color, but, and so you might use paint.

So paint moves quickly.

It's fluid.

There's a, there's a lovely sort of textual experience with it's very sky.

You get you, so that, and that can lift your mood, that can

make you actually feel better.

And as for colors do tend to guide people a little bit.

So obviously we have cool colors and warm colors that all your listeners

will know that, you know, red's red is a vibrant, powerful color as

opposed to blue, which is calm color.

Every color has a positive and a negative as well.

So if you're working, say again with somebody who's feeling a bit down or a bit

depressed, then we use the warm colors, the yellows, orange reds to, you know, to,

to sort of lift their mood a little bit.

And, you know, I have a painting over here that I created using yellows because,

and I, and it actually hits when I see it, it actually just, just slightly

lifts my mood and helps me refocus.

It's very, very powerful.

There are many, many art therapy activities where you allow

the client to choose color.

Because it has to resonate with them.

And that tells me where they're sitting emotionally, particularly preteens and

teenagers who may not have the words to say, oh, I'm feeling a bit down today.

Or, you know, I'm frustrated about this, or I'm scared, I dunno what to do.

I'm scared.

And they don't, you know, they don't have those words.

But the psychology, this, the subconscious is scream.

Yeah.

How do, if you're working on Zoom with someone, do you tell them ahead of time,

you know, get yourself some watercolors and let's you know we're gonna use them.

So obviously I have everything planned out and I said, so next week, we'll,

we're gonna work with modeling clay.

We might work with collage if, if we're in studio, if someone's coming to me.

It's a lot in, in many respects, it's a lot.

It gives me a lot more to work with because I've got all sorts

of different kinds of paper.

I've got all sorts of different materials and I can just pop

them out and, and work with them.

Went off online and, and with distance, you know?

But to be honest, I haven't noticed that it's a real disadvantage.

To the client.

Yeah.

Yeah, because they get what they get out of it.

I'm so grateful for people like you who can help people who need, especially

teens, like you said, with them.

They don't know how to speak and say, but they can draw and can, like you said,

I'm assuming that can calm them down and they can some breathing and then

maybe they can articulate it better.

Is that what you find?

Oh, absolutely.

Feel better.

No look and even within, and it doesn't take a particularly long time.

A lot of art therapy works alongside traditional talk therapists, whether

counseling and psychologist or other, other modalities as well.

What it does is it bypasses that need to verbalize something to explain.

It's gotta be a certain part of your brain and often we don't have words.

Trauma can block it.

Trauma.

Trauma can just overwhelm.

We get that, we get that freeze, you know, that flight, flight or freeze form,

all those sorts of things happening.

But if you are not being confronted, if you're not asked

to explain, how do you feel today?

You're like, oh, I dunno if I tired, you know, this happened.

I'll be excited.

Your subconscious will express that.

Through color line.

So things you may ask, you know, if we working with somebody who's

been bullied, for example, might ask them to paint the bully.

And usually at the beginning of the session it will, the bully

might be a, it might be a shape.

Doesn't that necessarily have to be, you know, but it'll fill the page.

Or if it's at the top of the page or if it's at the bottom of the page

when you ask them to add themselves, where they put that figure.

Shape on the page matters.

How the size of it on the, it's really, really interesting stuff.

Oh, that's, and you can see that transform even a matter of weeks.

So tell me, um, if you would, some of your favorite stories or some really

amazing transformations from when someone came to you and then when they left you.

And obviously we don't need names.

So there was an older lady I weren't working with just

casually more than anything.

One of the things I'm, I'm really, it's really piqued my interest

is older women who are now being identified as being on the spectrum.

They're autistic in some form, whether it's a DHD, leads on to all sorts

of issues, whether it's full blown autism, and a lady in particular

who's 72 years old has just been diagnosed with autism and all of a

sudden her life suddenly made sense.

Why she can't communicate people, why she doesn't like doing.

I I, and I've actually in the same boat.

I can't cope with supermarkets, you know, it's too busy,

it's just too much happening.

There's all these things shouting at me from the shelves,

you know, it's just like, no.

And it's, it's something now that researchers are actually looking

at, because autism has, has been defined by young teenage boys who do.

They behave in a certain way, whereas girls don't, it's quite, quite different.

And now they're suddenly realizing that there's been a lot of women in their

fifties, sixties and, and like this lady in her seventies who ha just have

been slipped through the net, who could have even, and we're not talking about

a great financial support or medical support, but just a, a little bit of an

understanding that my brain is not quite ticking over the ways other people's are.

And maybe that's why I don't fit into.

And this may be why I, I can't do this particular job.

So for me, for example, I probably had more jobs than most people in the world

because I go, I that, I'm quite curious.

I'm like, oh, I know how that works.

And so I just go try that down and, and I don't have a fear of

failure because my, my sense of curiosity just overwhelms that.

And, and it's, it's, it's just sort of really interesting

that we see these people now.

And of course what art therapy can do and as a coach or therapist is I can.

I can, we can use the art materials to express a sense of loss and it and

that, and sort of from that develops through to a sense of empowerment.

And of course my main goal is always to build emotional resilience, whether

that's in a 15-year-old or a 72-year-old, because that's that ability to bounce

back to process things that go wrong.

Everything.

'cause everything goes wrong for everybody.

And being able to overcome that and yeah.

And, and say, you know what?

That's just the way the world is, but I'm okay.

Yeah.

And I can paint it out.

Paint it out.

Yeah.

I love that.

Paint it out.

My son is, we actually, we laugh.

My business partner and I said, any entrepreneur is probably has some kind

of form of a DD or a DH because if we're like, and we can do that, but

my son does have it and he does have trouble sometimes when it's too loud in

a restaurant or too, too much going on.

Too noisy and he's like, you know, I'd really like to not stay here.

Can we move on?

I mean, but now we have noise canceling headphones.

I used to run an art therapy class 'cause I've just sped one

side of the state to the other.

And a lady used to come with, with her noise canceling headphones and some of

the other people would look at her and think, why should your headphones on?

You know, she can still hear me, but it shuts out a lot of that noise.

Yeah.

I walked into other people's houses and got, geez, the TV's a bit loud and I just.

Look at me.

What's going, you know, I'm having an argument at the moment with

the windscreen wipers in my madda.

It's like, no, they're too loud.

I dunno if you're gonna win that one unless you get new ones.

Brilliant.

So tell me a little bit about what favorite ritual do you have to help keep

you grounded and able to work with people who you know, in some ways are like

you, but in other ways are struggling?

I, um, really like doodling.

I've actually researched that.

I read a big article about that on my website.

Um, and I will, I find, I like to work with just pens.

Sometimes I, I have now, I have a dedicated art time once a week,

which is usually Sunday afternoon where I listen to an audio book and

I have no idea half the time what I'm going to, to create or paint.

Last week it was an avocado.

Then you have to do some guacamole after that, right?

That's right.

The Doritos.

It's, it's really interesting.

And I, and I go, no, I need, and whatever I do, obviously it's significant

and, you know, and when you're busy, I don't often have time to, um, go

understand it myself in, in some ways.

But it, for me, it's a, it's an emotional release.

It's a time being creative.

It's just being creative itself is really good for your mental health.

And, you know, it comes back to that need to play.

And, and play therapy is really important as well.

And you know, we need to give, as adults, we need to give ourselves that space to,

you know, just to play and be creative and, and it perhaps even a bit silly.

I don't think enough people do that.

It's, you know.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I totally agree.

It was funny, we used to get, when I was a kid, we had paint by numbers, right?

Oh yeah.

But now they have like really beautiful, like famous art pieces.

And you can get them on a canvas and it, it's the number they're numbered.

Exactly.

So we would Exactly, we would just sit there.

My daughter and I would just sit there and paint and these teen tiny little pieces.

It was, it was very therapeutic.

It was lovely.

It's a lovely thing to share as well.

And worked with a gentleman who had an, uh, an acquired brain injury from,

he from fell of a horse and he, he and I watched what he was drawing and

it was, it was very, very controlled.

Almost very, very tense, you might say.

And everything happened at the bottom of the page by this one.

And he said, and I, I was a bit unsure and I thought, I thought,

oh, I don't think, I don't think he might get, sort of start complaining.

But he looked at me and his face was full of joy and he went, I haven't

done this since I was at school.

And then he says to me, why do, why do we stop doing that?

And I said, that's a really, really good question.

You know, there were very few, uh, I, I, your family would

be, I assume the exception.

But there are very few people who continue to draw and do art as they

get older because they're off to uni.

They've got families they need to get a job and important stuff.

Yeah.

Actually it wasn't all that long ago that I, I started doing Legos again.

Oh wow.

How much fun are Legos?

And they have these sets now, they're actually not Lego brand, but they have

like lights in them and I just did one that was, it was a, a garden center and

I have one that's a cafe and they've got plants in them and it, yeah, it's really.

It's fun, but I almost have to force myself sometimes.

Like you, I love the idea of having a dedicated art time, um, because like

you, you know, I almost have to force myself to do it because I don't feel,

I don't know, entitled to do that.

Yeah.

Like, I should be doing something else.

I should be Yeah, that's right.

Yeah.

Mow the lawns and Yeah, that's right.

Getting the dishes done.

Yeah.

No.

All right.

Well, just because we talked today, I am gonna have a dedicated art time

at least once a week, if not more often, and it can just be five minutes.

And sometimes if we establish a ritual around that, that really works as well.

So you might light a handle, you might, there's a, a, a program I'm

working on at the moment where you people get up, people, people with,

uh, you know, sort of deep emotional issues and, and pathology, um, issues.

They might, you might get up and just go, just draw a lines across a paper.

All you do, and as you do, you take a deep breath in, and as you draw

the line, you exhale very slowly and you just, and that's all you do.

So creating a ritual is like, as an, an artist would know that already because

they'll get their paints ready or the, the artists already know they have

a, well, they may not be conscious of it, but they'll start to prep their

stuff, whether it's getting the paints ready or the clay ready or you know,

figuring out where they're gonna work.

And that's where, you know, you'll have a studio, everything around you.

But you know, for everyday people, that's a really important.

Aspect as well to, to being creative and releasing whatever

tension, you know, you need to do.

And I worked with, with very, very troubled teams for a few years, and I

found that art, my art was very jagged.

It was, it was, you know, I was, I was, had all this tension, you know,

but it, it got it outta my system.

And in a lot of the ways, that's what it, you need to do that

almost immediately when you're dealing with in these situations.

And then it gives you space to process as well.

Yeah.

I love that.

Oh, I just love what you do.

It's amazing and it's doing so many good things for so many people.

I wanna ask you if people are listening, thinking, wow, I really want, I, I've

got someone in my family who could use that or, or I know someone who could

really use Susan's help, what is the best way for them to reach out to you?

You can find me on all the socials, my websites, mind mindful arts therapy.com,

if there's a contact form there, or you know, if, if you look at, at

Mindful Arts Therapy or Facebook or Instagram in particular, you can reach,

I'd love to hear from people as well.

I have books available on Amazon and last year I, I developed a, an app, uh, an app.

The app therapy app.

Ooh, I love that.

Okay, last question for you that I ask all my guests.

If you could give the world one tip to make it a better

place, what would that be?

Oh, I know this one.

Take back the crayons.

Had a lady and I was working with her and you know, we were

talking about she, she was a horn.

I dunno what I'm doing and what's this art therapy stuff.

And by the time of it, I'd finished, she went, you know what, I'm going downstairs.

I'm taking back that crayons from those four year olds

and I'm getting, I loved it.

I thought that's just so brilliant.

Yeah.

So, you know, we enjoy your art, enjoy it, and take it back and

reclaim, reclaim that beautiful child within you that love to paint.

I mean, kids know about art, they love it.

They do it on the walls, they do it everywhere.

It doesn't matter.

I love that.

What a great way to end.

Take back the crayons.

And with that, I will thank you so much Susan Day for joining me today, and I am

excited to check out all of your socials for people to hear this and be inspired.

So thank you.

Thank you very much for having me.

It was such a joy.