The podcast episode focuses on the role of driving instructors in fostering safer driving practices. Terry engages in a conversation with Olly Tayler, a former traffic officer, to explore the challenges of motorway driving and the misconceptions surrounding it.

They discuss the importance of proper observation and maintaining a safe distance between vehicles to prevent accidents. Additionally, they highlight the Honest Truth initiative, which aims to equip new drivers with essential life skills alongside their driving training. Throughout the episode, Ollie shares insights from his extensive experience in traffic policing, stressing the need for heightened awareness and responsibility among all road users.

Access more from Driving Instructors to Vision Zero

Find out more about The Honest Truth

Takeaways:

• Driving instructors can play a crucial role in shaping safer driving behaviours among new drivers.
• The podcast emphasizes the importance of understanding motorway driving beyond the misconception it's easy.
• Olly Tayler shares insights from his extensive experience as a traffic officer on motorways.
• Effective observation techniques, including scanning far ahead, are vital for motorway safety.
• The Honest Truth initiative aims to instil essential life skills in new drivers beyond just passing the test.

Now, as driving instructors, I believe we can do more to help reduce those numbers.

That's why I've created this podcast, Driving Instructors to Vision Zero, where the staff.

Every month I'll be giving you information and ideas for your driving school so you can create even safer drivers.

Thank you for joining me on this sixth episode.

And today we're talking motorways with Ollie Taylor.

Now, Ollie spent 15 years as a traffic officer, so he's in the perfect position to discuss some of the problems that occur on motorways and how we can prevent them, including the need to accommodate poor driving by others undertaking and why there's a misconception that motorway driving is easy.

We also take a moment to look at some of the features of the honest truth that people may not be aware of and on this new job.

But I just want to remind you that Driving Instructors Division Zero is part of the Instructor Podcast Network.

To find out more, head over to the instructor podcast.com where you can find a bunch of road safety resources and a whole heap of content for ADIs and PDIs.

But for now, if you click follow on your podcast player of choice, enjoy the show.

So today we are joined by the the wonderful Ollie Taylor.

How we doing, Ollie?

I'm absolutely great.

Thank you ever so much, Terry.

Great to be back again and to be back in the United Kingdom.

For those that listened to last last month's wouldn't have been that I was elsewhere.

I am back home now, so back in a rather chilly England, but I'm okay.

Well, it's.

The United Kingdom is a better place for having you back within it so that's good.

Oh, you say all the right things.

I know when my bread's buttered.

But there's a few things I want to talk to you about today.

But I think I want to start off with the most important question which is why have you recently retrained as an ice cream van man?

Sorry.

It was.

It was so much fun.

It was brilliant.

So basically I was offered an opportunity by many.

Many of your listeners will know James, James Evans from First Car & Co pilot and the sort of his work in road safety and he was putting together a advert for the highway code, the hierarchy of road users and the highway code changes and asked additionally asked if I'd become.

If I'd be part of the production team.

I've worked with James extensively since I retired.

He knows my capabilities.

He knows, you know, the way I think the way I work.

And he said, look, I'd love to have you on the production team for this.

And I said, yeah, brilliant.

So he gave me a bit of an overview of what the project was and at the time I could say, yeah, I like the concept.

Like, I can't quite see how it's all going to come together.

I was thinking, yeah, it sounds really good.

And knowing James as I do, anything James is involved in is going to be great.

I just know it.

Terry, you know James, you know, many people know James and it's going to be great.

So without a doubt, I said, absolutely.

And then I got a random phone call from James one evening a few weeks later.

He said, ollie.

He said, ollie, we've been thinking, we've been casting for this, this advert that we're doing this rotated film and we needed an ice cream app.

And he said, he was chatting somebody else on the production team and said, look, why don't we see if oil would do it?

I said.

So he ran and said, would you be a nice female for us?

I said, yeah, absolutely.

I've been a pizza delivery boy on moped after motorway driving.

I've done other bits and pieces.

I said, yeah, of course I can.

And I don't know if any of your listeners have seen it, Terry, I know you've seen it.

The end result is spectacular, I have to say.

Not just because I'm in it, not just because I'm in it, but I think the overall end result, to articulate a really important message around the hierarchy of road users and the changes to the highway code, which now are a couple of years old, admittedly, was inspired and so, so memorable.

I really enjoyed being part of it.

I genuinely really enjoyed doing that.

And it was, it was great fun, it was a great crew.

It was, you know, three days, three days of filming and learning to pour the perfect Mr.

Whippy, which I, I had to learn pretty much on the hoof.

I had plenty of practice because during the filming, take after take after take, fresh off screen, fresh off screen, fresh.

I must have bored 150 Mr.

Whitby's over the course of three days just so we could get the filming done.

But what turned into a two minute advert, basically.

Are you now hoping they do one on drink driving so you can practice pouring the perfect pint Absolutely, yes.

Yeah.

Although I used to work in a bar, so I'm all right.

I know I can pour a fairly good pint.

But, you know, I would encourage any of your, any of your listeners who haven't seen it, actually.

It's, it's widely available, it's widely circulated on social media that actually, I think it's a really, really good.

At the moment of seriousness here, Terry.

I think it's a really good visual aid that all new and young drivers should watch.

It explains it so well and in such a memorable way.

It really does.

No, I will say I shared it on my social media and I'll admit I did put the tagline, you know, saying pay attention to who's driving the van, you know, and they got some interesting, amusing comments.

But I will include a link for anyone, for sure notes for anyone that hasn't seen it.

But I think, like you said, on a serious note, I think the video is amazing.

I really do.

I've shared it with my learners.

Interesting feedback as always.

And I think the one question I want to ask you is do you think it's disappointing the video needs to be made?

As in, more people should be aware of this rule anyway.

It should have been better put across by National Highways or dvsa, the government.

When these rules come into force, is it disappointing the video needs to be made?

Yes and no.

I know that that's not the answer you want to hear, Derek, but for me, yes and no, it is disappointing that videos like this have been made.

Now, I remember when the changes came out, there was a certain amount of media around the changes that there was, there was, you know, there were.

There was a communications campaign around it, but actually it wasn't memorable.

You know, I can't.

I remember it being there, but I can't remember what the communications campaign was around it.

Clearly I was still a serving officer then, so we had the information through at work, so we had to know about it because of obviously enforcing legislation and things like that.

So, yes, it's in one, in one respect, it's disappointing that these sorts of films have to be made to educate the general motoring public, but actually, how many people in the general motoring public?

And I'm going to broad brush this, you know, it's not something I tend to do.

We're going to broad brush it anyway.

How many of the, you know, your motoring public in the United Kingdom are aware of, you know, aware of the highway code anyway?

Yes, they know what the highway code is.

When was the last time they opened a copy of the Highway Code, actually looked at what the Highway Code says about just about every aspect of driving.

So that's the.

Yes, I'm disappointed, but no, I'm not disappointed.

Is because it gave an opportunity to, for James and the team and for myself to be involved in making something really memorable that actually, yes, is needed out there.

You know, it's clearly needed out there because people don't know about the rules, the changes to highway calories.

And actually, if they don't know about those changes of the Highway Code, is there a.

Is there a, you know, a call?

Is.

Is there a place to actually have a series of these types of films and adverts and videos done in a very clever, memorable way to re.

Educate the great British motoring public?

Yeah, no, annoyingly, you give the answer of yes and no, and I agree with both parts of it.

So.

But it's almost like when we look at charities, in reality, there shouldn't be a need for a charity, but there is.

And I think that's a disappointing aspect.

But just as kind of a final point on this with a.

In terms of giving ways, vulnerable road users and the hierarchy within the Highway Code, it's really interesting talking about it with my students because so many of them come in with either a preconceived idea about it or when we first start speaking about it because of obviously the history and the culture of driving.

You know, people crossing the road should give way to us aspect and all this kind of stuff.

But usually within sort of a few minutes of talking about it, they're on board.

They get it because they can think of a time when they would have liked to have, you know, cross the road or as a cyclist, why someone shouldn't turn in front of them and that kind of stuff.

And I think that often we're too quick to dismiss people because of a stereotype or because of history.

And I think actually people coming into lessons at 17 or sports, what average.

But at 17, this is the perfect time to talk about this stuff, isn't it?

It absolutely is.

It's ingraining those behaviors and those attitudes right at the beginning of somebody's driving career, because if they get those ingrained right at the beginning, that becomes business as usual.

That becomes just a normalized attitude for them when as, as they grow and develop as a driver.

And the bit I, the bit I particularly like and the wording of the hierarchy of road users rule H1 of the highway coast is that those that can cause the greatest harm on the roads bear the greatest responsibility to reduce the risk they pose to others.

And I think that's almost word perfect, I think, and I really like that I love the idea of if you, if you've got the potential to cause the greatest harm on the roads, you bear the greatest responsibility to reduce the risk you pose to others.

It's simple that it is not rocket science.

That is simple and it's, it's such a simple concept that actually the next generation of drivers having that as a bedrock of, you know, of their sort of driving attitude of behavior has got to be a good thing.

Absolutely, yeah.

Let's move on then.

Because one of the things I wanted to speak to you about today is some of the things around the honest truth that people don't necessarily know.

But I do want to speak to you about something else because I've driven back from Coventry today and most of that is motorway driving and sort of looking at two and a half to three hours and the bulk of it's on the M1.

Let's just say they tend to see some interesting things when you're spending that amount of time on a motorway.

So I thought it'd be interesting to ask you a little bit about this.

So I suppose first of all, if anyone doesn't know, I think it'll be appropriate for you to remind us a little bit of your background sort of in this vicinity.

So yeah, absolutely, terry, no problem.

So 30 years as a police officer that many of your listeners will know, retired about 18 months ago and I spent about half of that time on roads policing.

So out on the, on the major road network, effectively Devon, informal and into Dorset.

So we have the M5 running out of Devon.

You've got the A38 running sort of from the end of the M5 down the southern edge of the force area and then you've got the A30 as a multi lane carriageway running on the north edge of the, along the north side of the port area.

So again, I spent many, many hours driving on carriageways, many hours driving on patrol or the motorway.

And also in my own time going off to conferences, going off to meetings.

I've spent much, pretty much like yourself, Perry, I have spent hour after hour after hour driving on motorways and I've learned an awful lot about motorway driving during my time as a police officer.

And also, you know, how, why, how safe they are.

You know, we'll come back to that predominantly how safe multilingual stuff in the main is where the, you know, very, very few collisions occur on motorways and dual carriageways, although when they do occur they tend to be the more catastrophic ones because of the season.

Well, I think that's interesting because one of the things I hear a lot and I hear it from students sometimes and I hear, you know, online and you know, what not is motorways are easy.

That that's what we get.

Motorways are easy.

Do you think the fact that there is very few collisions on there, do you think that's what breeds that motorways are easy kind of mentality?

It's very possible that that is definitely a contributing factor to that, that mindset that motorways and motor lane carriageways are easy to drive.

In fact, Harry, they're not.

They are, you know, the, the concentration levels required on a motorway and multi lane carriageway.

We'll talk motorways, but I'll include multi lane carriages when they talk motorways.

The concentration levels you have to have are, you know, are as high as any other road.

Without a doubt.

You can't afford to switch off on a motorway.

Motorway driving can become very mundane, especially on a motorway for a number of hours it becomes very mundane.

They're long, they tend to be fairly straight, they're wide, it's just mile after mile, rolling mile after mile after mile of, you know, a tarmac under your tires.

So yes, in some, in one respect they are relatively easy to drive because there aren't junctions, there aren't roundabouts, there aren't sharp bends, there aren't other hazards around that you would get on an a road or a town driving situation or some rural driving.

But actually there are many hazards on a motorway that you're not going to get on another type of road.

And the hazards on a motorway will appear an awful lot quicker than on other roads because of the speeds and vehicles involved.

So you have to be on point when you drive on a motor where you have to be thinking an awful lot further ahead than and when you're driving on other, other road types because things come up to you so quickly.

So by the time if you're driving 10 foot in front of your bonnet, you know that is a rescue for disaster.

You've got to be driving, you've got to be looking at your limit point, you've got to be looking at that limit point, the Furthest point on what you can see the furthest point I can see on the road, you know, whether it's a limit point, the furthest point I see, to be clear, that's my limit point, or actually the furthest point visible, which could be a couple of bends away.

But actually I'm always looking at that far ahead.

And the thing I'm looking for are things like banks of brake lights.

Is something ahead of me I need to start thinking about now.

You know, it's, it's those sorts of things.

And when I'm on the motorway, my mind is probably going quicker than when I'm on driving other road types because I know how quickly things start to develop on a motorway, how quickly things start to go wrong on a motorway.

So if I'm trying to predict what's coming up, what is my next hazard and you know, in its, in its rawest form, who is the next person on this piece of road in front of me, who is going to try and screw up my days?

And I've used another phrase than that, I'm not going to use forum because it is an, it's a slightly impolite word, but I'm confident, I tend to think, right, who's going to screw up my day for me?

And I will try and deal with them and I'll recognize and I'll look for them, I'll actually scan, I'll be constantly scanning motorway side to side, front to back, back and forth, backwards and forwards, all the time looking for that individual who is not, who isn't concentrating, who's on their mobile phone, who's daydreaming, who's not thinking about what they're doing, because that's the person that's going to cause the greatest risk to me and other people around them.

So I want to manage that as quickly as possible, either get past them or, you know, however I, however I decide to deal with it.

But it does mean that those concentration levels have to be peak all the time on a motorbike.

So obviously what you just described there is what you're doing is correct and 100% what we should be doing.

But it's almost a little bit like that's contributing towards the problem because the people that are driving poorly on a motorway are being accommodated by us good drivers.

So it's annoying.

We obviously have to do that.

But by driving correctly and therefore prevent preventing the crash, we are making these other people think that it's easy because they can just swing from one lane to other way without Signaling, because that guy can slow down for me plenty of time.

And Terry, you make a really valid point.

You really do.

And my answer to that would be, I can't take everybody's drive on my motorway.

I can only take my drive on the motorway.

It's my drive.

I want to get to my destination safely.

If these people aren't that bothered by getting the destination safely, well, kind of, that's down to them.

But I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna get involved in whatever they're getting involved in.

So I'm not going to worry too much about them.

Apart from if they pose a risk to me and I see them as a hazard, I'm going to deal with them.

One of my police driving instructors many, many years ago told me something that never left me.

I've remembered it all the time.

And any driver assessing I do, I get to entertain or sort of driver inductions that I do things like that.

If we get out onto a motorway or a motor encounter, I feel like the key to this is be a spectator, not a participant.

If there are people up ahead and they're tailgating and they're all bunching up and they're brake light, brake, brake light on, brake light off, brake light on, brake light off, weaving lanes, just drop back, drop back and just spectate, don't become a participant.

And I've never forgotten that.

And when I'm driving a motorway, I am a spectator, not a participant.

You, you know, I like to play devil's advocate now and again.

Let me ask you this and kind of a two part question, I suppose I'll let you answer this as you deem fit.

I suppose what are some of the things that you see recurring on a motorway, Some of the things where you think people could improve and therefore I suppose some of the things that as instructors we could and potentially should be teaching our learners on these motorway lessons that ideally we would be doing okay.

So that's a relatively easy one actually for me, Terry is, and that is observation is a big thing, is people clearly aren't looking ahead.

They're not looking nearly far enough ahead than they should be.

They're only looking maybe one or two cars ahead.

And that's the bubble that they're sat in.

They're not necessarily looking at what's going on inside them and potentially not what's going on behind them either.

So by having that 360 vision, and for me my vision is what I call far ground, middle ground, foreground, background, far ground, middle ground, foreground Background and it's that constant backwards and forwards of those observation skills and as well as up ahead is also coming down the sides as well.

It's like a pinball machine.

So I'm flying that ball as far ahead as I can get it and I'm watching it come down inside of the road.

So I'm scanning them for signs of issues on the near side, broken down vehicles in the hard shoulder or you know, potential breakdown, breaking up in lane three, for example, or you know, other issues like that.

So I'm constantly looking.

So I think that a lot of people, what they don't do is they don't throw their observations nearly far enough ahead.

And the other big thing for me is they don't leave nearly enough room between vehicles, nearly enough.

You see vehicles all bunched up together, all doing 70, 75 miles an hour.

Sometimes they know more than cars length between them.

But if the one at the front of the queue, the one at the front of that little queue of three or four vehicles, somebody has an issue, there's three or four behind, they're never going to stop.

They haven't got a chance of reacting at all.

So what I try to do is leave a nice big gap, you know, a minimum 2 second gap on a good dry road, minimum 4 seconds in wet conditions.

That's absolute minimum downside of that.

And there'll be plenty of people listening to this will go, well, the minute you do that, someone's going to pull into that space.

Okay, that's fine.

So all I do is I just ease off the accelerator and I just let that gap, gap open up again.

Because what always makes me laugh is you see these people kind of tearing past you on the motorway and you might travel another 5, 10 miles and you come up against a bank of traffic, be it slow moving in traffic or roadworks or an issue on the motor.

And you also have a chuckle to yourself because you find them about two cars ahead of you.

Well, that did do the world of good, didn't it?

You've literally got two cars, two cars ahead of me.

I'd be traveling at the speed limit or speed appropriate conditions.

Obviously in poor weather, bringing those bring that sleep back in poor, in poor visibility and rain, things like that.

And again, these people that come scorching past in really poor weather at 75, 80 miles an hour, I can only assume they're driving using the force.

That's the only way they can be doing it because they can't see anything at all.

And if something happens in front of them, they've got no time to react.

So I think for instructors it's, for me it's about ensuring that the next generation of drivers understand the reactionary gap, giving yourself as much time to react as possible.

Something going on ahead of you.

When you're traveling at 70 miles an hour, you are covering ground extremely quickly and by the time something happens in front of you and your brain has registered it and you thought, what am I going to do about it?

I need to formulate a plan, right, My plan is going to be now I'm going to apply the brake, now I'm going to change lanes.

Whatever it might be, you've probably passed whatever it was anyway, so your decision making sort of be like this.

So actually, I think it's all.

It's about two things for me, Terry.

It's about throwing those observations as far forward as possible, getting those observations out and doing that, that scanning, that 360, scanning of the road constantly.

And it can be hard work and it can be tiring, don't get me wrong.

Which brings us on to taking appropriate ropes on the motorway, but also is keeping that reactionary gap around you and it's keeping that safety bubble around you.

Simple thing, you know, a simple thing.

If you've got, you know this.

If you've got, you're overtaking a heavy goods vehicle and you've got a vehicle in front of you, maybe you might have a couple of heavy goods vehicles in lane one, for example, if you've got a car in front of you that starts to over in lane two, that starts to rotate the first heavy.

I'm not going to follow that, trolling behind that first heavy and find myself trapped next to a heavy.

I'm going to wait until that car has cleared the gap between them and into the next one, then I'm going to do a nice progressive overtake past the first heavy, into the gap between the two, wait for the current heavy, then I'm going to make a nice progressive carry on along lane two.

Then it just means I just have to hold back for a moment while that vehicle is clearing the next heavy.

I'm not left in a position of risk by being right next to a heavy because, you know, anything can happen.

I want to, that's my.

I want to get out of that danger area as quickly as possible.

I want to just spend as little time as I need to next to that HGV and people will sit next to HD for mile after mile, I think in that H.

Can't see you For a start, they have no idea you're there.

The chance of knowing you're there is very, very limited.

Even more so with a foreign XGB because the driver's on the wrong side of the cab.

So they can't.

They're.

They're as far away from as they can be.

So actually, things like that, staying out of danger, keeping this safety bubble around you, they, they.

For me, they're the key elements in safe motorway driving.

I'd be interested in your thoughts on this.

This is one of the things I do both for myself as a driver and with my learners.

And it's cruise control and it's a challenge around cruise control.

So we get the carbon 70 Bobby cruise control on.

It's like, right, the challenge is how long can you go without having to touch the brake?

Because that makes them plan ahead.

Because if they're looking far enough, they can you touch on this, they can plan that overtaking because they'll start looking behind and think, all right, I'm going to have to go now, otherwise this car is going to be there or whatever the situation may be.

And I do that to keep me alert because it can be quite tiring driving on a motorway.

And if you.

Prevents your breaking.

No, that's wrong with us.

Prevent.

It encourages you not to break and to keep your speed up and to plan further ahead.

So I just wondered, what were your thoughts on that little.

That little game, if you like, Terry?

I play exactly the same game, exactly the same.

And it's, you know, it comes as no surprise that something like yourself drives in that way.

There should be no reason to break on a motorway unless it's an emergency situation.

You shouldn't have to break because you should be able to plan your drive and plan that reactionary gap that if something does start to develop in front of you and, you know, I use cruise control on my way all the time.

70 miles an hour.

Happy days.

And all I do to adjust my speed is just tap my cruise control on and off.

And it was bizarre.

You say that about, you know, try not to brake.

I was driving back from.

Where was I coming back from?

And tell you where I was coming back from.

I was coming back from Newark not too long ago and I got back to Bristol and came through, down the M5 through Bristol, carried on down the M5 towards Exeter and I didn't touch the brakes from Bristol or.

No, it was before Bristol, actually.

It would been probably the services, the services up the M5.

So kind of Gloucester, Gloucester and Micklewood services And I didn't touch the brakes for well over 100 miles and drove down the motorway.

You know, it wasn't, it wasn't stacked, it wasn't a stack motorway, but it wasn't empty.

And I was having to adjust my speed, but exactly as you say, I was doing it by acceleration sense.

So knocking in, knocking the cruise fuse control off and using the engine in an eco, in an eco friendly way, in an eco driving way to be able to do the overtakes, to slow up if something's coming up lane three and I need to come out to lane two, just ease off, let them come past.

And then three, whatever it might be, I did exactly the same.

And again, it keeps the mind active, it keeps you thinking about what you're doing, it makes you plan your journey better.

But fuel economy, it saves masses, It's a great fuel economy.

You're not putting excessive stress on vehicle components, you're saving your braking system by not breaking.

And like I say, I had to brake.

It was the other side of Exeter, so it wasn't that far from me.

So it was well over 100 miles.

Didn't need to.

Well, you beat my record.

My record is 74 miles, but I'm still happy with that.

I think 74 is good, very good.

I do think it's worth mentioning here, just for people listening, especially maybe newer ADIs or PDIs to consider brake lights as well.

You know, consider the.

Using nebbers indicators, the car behind.

So just because you don't need to break physically, it might be beneficial to break to tell the car behind what's going on.

And also on motorways, in fact, you know, I think maybe I'll get your clarification on this because this is something I would do.

In fact, I did it on the way down on Friday, something I would do.

And it's hazard warning lights.

So if you're potentially coming to a stop on a motorway because of the traffic coming front and it's a bit more prompt than you would like, hazard warning lights let people behind know you stopping rather than slowing down.

Yeah, basically, I think.

And what you will find is quite a lot of modern vehicles, if you undertake fairly dynamic braking, you'll actually find hazard lights automatically come on.

So I know my Audi, certainly if I, you know, if I apply the brakes with some pressure, that my hazard lights will automatically come on.

And again, I quite like that idea because actually if somebody has kind of gone into kind of automatic mode and they're just, yeah, there's another mile of motorway and, yeah, they're just lights ahead of me and not really taking much, you know, not focusing what's going on.

The minute you get those flashing indicators that can snap them out and go, oh, there's something going on here I need to deal with, which is great.

And that way you don't end up with people piling into the back of stationary traffic.

I'm always a bit.

Always a bit cautious about dabbing the brakes.

You know, people can see that as brake checking people.

And I've seen that on motorways, campus time, where somebody's been tailgated and they dab the brakes and, you know, and you have this ripple effect back through the traffic.

So I'm always a little bit nervous about dabbing the brakes.

If somebody's like that or somebody's tailgating me, all I do is let's move across and let them go.

Just let them go back to being.

Back to being a spectator, not participant.

You know, I'm not gonna.

Nobody's gonna roll me on Motorway.

Nobody's gonna follow me on anybody.

Just know it's just.

It isn't worth it.

Just move out of their way and let them get on with it.

Yeah, Just to clarify what I meant there, it wasn't meant as, like, bridge or anything like that.

It's more like.

So the car behind, not necessarily a tailgate, but one behind, can see you're going to be slowing down because obviously, if you come off the brakes.

No, no, absolutely fine.

Yeah.

No, no, yeah.

Sorry, Terry, I'm slightly misunderstood what you were talking about there.

But.

No, absolutely.

And, you know, yes, if you're slowing down, though, of course you want to let the vehicle behind, though.

But the other thing, as well as when you're doing that, is keeping a really close eye on what's coming in behind you.

Because actually.

And then I've seen it happen where, you know, you've gone to slow down, all the traffic in front of you slowed down for whatever reason.

It could be any one of a multitude of reasons.

And suddenly you see the vehicles coming in behind you, coming in pretty far.

You're thinking, I'm not happy with this, that people coming in lane two behind me is coming a lot quicker than I want them to.

Right.

I'm going to get myself into lane one.

And, you know, and I have an occasion where I moved to lane one, and the vehicle in lane two has been under heavy braking and it would have flashed right in the back of me.

So it's as much.

If you, you know, when you get into that situation, yes, of course.

See what's going in front of you.

Look at what's going in front of you.

Don't forget to look at what's going behind you because actually that's where you're probably your greatest risk is coming from.

I'm going to ask you one more question and I'm going to ask it in a very careful way because I don't want to load the question.

So I'm going to say one word and then let you respond as you deem appropriate.

And I will not challenge you on it because I don't want to debate undertaking.

So.

Okay, there are, there are two, there are, yeah, there are two answers to this.

I'm.

I'm going to give you one.

Have I undertaken on a motorway?

Yes, I have.

Because again, you know, and this comes to, comes down to middle lane hoggers, you know, and lane three hoggers.

And I've seen it so many times.

I see it every time I go out on a multi lane carriageway.

I see people who for some reason seem to think lane one is a slow la.

No, it's not.

It's lane one is the inside.

Lanes two and three are overtaking legs.

The highway code says there's another film coming here.

The highway code says once you finish an overtake maneuver, you move across the lane of the left hand lane, the clearest left hand lane.

If that's lane one, you move into lane one.

I've been on M25 and some of these other big motorways that have got four or five lanes and I've been driving along, you know, relatively, relatively.

I know M25 is never clear, but relatively clear motorway.

And a few months ago it was the M25 fact.

And you've got five lanes, in fact, lane four of five.

And I was coming up, there was somebody sat in lane four or five, okay, lanes one, two and three, completely empty, Completely empty for a good quarter half a mile.

Nothing.

I've seen nothing at all.

Relatively quietly in 25.

And then we just sat in lane four, sat in lane four.

I come up behind, kind of behind them, thinking I was in lane one, thinking, why are you sat in lane four?

I don't understand it.

There are three empty lanes to your lap.

You should be in lane one where I am.

So I'm not going to go out into lane five to come back into lane one.

So I actually undertook him in lane one.

Kept a really close arm, don't get me wrong, Terry, a very close eye on them.

They had any indication that they were going to start to move across, which I felt they probably weren't going to.

I've been seeing them sat in lane four for a good two or three miles that I was ready to react if needs be.

But yes, I have undertaken, you know, yes, you shouldn't be in the shilling in this country, but actually people don't know how to drive multi lane caratoids, particularly when you're talking three, four lanes.

They just why they sit in lane two or three.

I just don't get it.

And it's a massive pet pep paint of mine, a pet hate I've got.

So I said I wouldn't a bit.

And I walk because I agree.

But I will decide one tiny example from myself which is mini roundabouts or double mini roundabouts in particular because where I used to live there was a double mini roundabout industry and everyone always did it incorrectly.

I shouldn't say everyone.

Often people do it incorrectly.

So it got to a point where I was doing that roundabout incorrectly to accommodate other drivers.

And that's kind of how I see that, that undertaking in the someone else is driving incorrectly.

We have to find a way to accommodate them.

So, yes, thank you for clarifying that for me.

I appreciate that one.

And again, Terry, you're right.

Talk about you're accommodating poor driving and you are absolutely right on what you say, but a car is at its safest when it's traveling in a straight line.

Yep.

The minute that you start changing lanes and things, you're.

You're destabilizing your car, basically.

A lane change will destabilize a car.

It will start to put weight.

You know, we're not going to get into weight differentials on cars and you know, braking, accelerating and cornering.

But actually if somebody's in Lane Lane 4 or 5 and I've got two empty lanes between me and them and I could undertake in lane one perfectly safely when I'm going to do it because that's the safest option for me, making sure they're not going to suddenly start something across, which often it's not.

They don't because they're not thinking about what they're doing and they're just sat in that lane.

Well, that's the lane I'm driving in, not what the Harmonico says.

So.

Yeah, but it's this whole idea of accommodating poor driving.

That's a really interesting thought, Terry.

A really interesting thought and probably one for a campaign.

Well, I love talking to you and I think driving instructors that listen, appreciate the fact that you're willing to go up your time to sort of share this knowledge not just with on the podcast, but also everywhere else as well.

I think they, I hope they appreciate how lucky they are.

And yeah, I suppose speaking of how lucky we are, we're also lucky to have the honest truth.

So let's just talk a little bit about this because I want to speak about a couple of things that members may not necessarily know that the goes on with the honest truth.

But before we dive into that, I think it's worth just for maybe the handful of people that don't know, just go give us a quick summary of what the honest truth is.

Okay, easy one.

So honest truth is a way of embedding rotating education seamlessly within course of drive lessons through a series of short puncher videos covering 10 rotating topics delivered by two young people who talk about the truth.

If you like the topic in discussion, the truth that's up the discussion to open up debate and conversation about that topic within the car.

With a new or young driver delivered by an app and a driving instructor facing out where an instructor can track their pupils or students Progress through the 10 truths I think is probably the simplest way to explain what it is.

Yeah.

Very carefully thought about, very carefully.

It's been through behavior change experts, it's been through rotate experts and it has been designed full driving instructors to deliver those key road safety messages, those key life skills messages, alongside the mechanical skills of learning to drive in a way that becomes seamless within driving lessons.

Basically.

Yeah.

And I will include links in the show notes to previous episodes where we've done, where we've discussed it in more detail.

But just check out the website honest truth.co.uk I think I've got that right.

Excellent.

But I want to talk about a couple of things that people may not necessarily realize that's available.

And the first one I want to address is the fact that when a student watches the Honest Truth, they sign up and they put their name and their email in, they get a follow up email to their email address with the video on, don't they?

Do you want to tell us a little bit about that?

Absolutely.

So each time a student is shown a truth as the truth of the day or the truth for that lesson, the topic for that lesson the following day they'll receive an email from us, an automated email which will have a link to the video so they can show anybody they want, mum's dad, whoever's at home.

It also have some hints and tips around that topic as well.

So it will give them some, some follow up information that they want to do.

But more importantly it's got that link to that video.

And really interestingly, really interestingly I was talking to a driving instructor on Friday morning and they said oh just let you know, you know had a pupil who's made that we talk about drink driving and his mate had only not wrong passed his test, got picked up to drink drivers lost their license, they over the limit, they lost their license.

And the next lesson the pupil came back and then was talking about this and said oh I, I showed showed my video showed I made the ring drive video and I said this is you, you idiot.

You know and this is what, this is a story coming from the driving structure.

So this is, this is you idiot.

And the young driver who lost their license as a result of and driving had said, said to his mate if I'd watched that video I'd still have my license says all done it.

But I haven't, I haven't told you this actually.

So this is news to you but this happened I think twice now and I think both times it was the, the mobile phone video.

I might be misremembering that but what it happened twice where students come back to me and said they've shown this video to their dad, their dad is now going to change the way they drive.

And I don't think it was a revolutionary never touching the phone again.

I think it was more do it less aspect but that's still better than nothing.

And I think that shows the importance of that follow up email because it's giving the student a resource that they can then go on and share other people.

Well interesting as well Terry.

What we have learned is that obviously through these follow up emails we send it, we can see our open rate.

Now you compare it against the open rate of something like gaming emails for example.

So gaming emails big with that, that demographic, that age group, you know, Xboxes, PlayStation, all these sorts of things.

The average open rate for gaming related emails is about 31, 32%, something like that, 30 ish percent.

The average open rate for honest truth emails is sat just under 63%.

Almost double what it is of a lot of other emails that people will get.

And our unsubscribe rate from the emails from young people is about 1 in 200, it's about half a percent.

So that tells me that.

Absolutely.

One we get an hour ahead and two it's something that young people want.

And your example, and your example you said there about the student showing dad the mobile phone video and the lad who showed his mate the Dream Drive video.

I have no doubt these are not the only examples that there are going to be chancellor examples where these videos and this information is being shared, it's being shown around a wider audience and actually if it can then through osmosis almost start to affect, positively affect the attitudes and behaviors of some of the current generation of drivers, the lost generation, I call them, because I've seen them on the roads all the time.

You'll have seen them driving from Coventry today.

That's got to be a good thing.

That can only be, you know, that's not an intended outcome and consequence of the campaign, but it's a byproduct that is a positive, a real positive.

That 63% is massive because I know a little bit about open rates and makes me want to try harder because my open rate for the instructor podcast email is 55%.

So, you know, I've got a new target now.

But no, I'm genuinely impressed by that.

But that just shows the buy in, you know, when that stereotype of they won't care.

You know, I'm sure you hear that sometimes talking to instructors about why Instructors don't sign up.

70, sorry, 63% of students are opening these emails.

That's massive.

But let's move on to the next one then, because what I wanted to mention, I don't know if this is a feature, but I think it's worth mentioning, it's the map that you've got where you can go and read yourself on your map.

So I'm right, you're thinking the honest truth has sort of about 600 members now, is that right?

Yes.

So I've got the moment.

There's just under 600 drums that's registered on the app, if you like.

Yeah.

I'm guessing there's nowhere near 600 people that have logged in and put themselves on the map.

What's the benefit of an instructor doing that?

So we are in the process, we're just in the process of going between two mapping systems as well.

So in fact, our current map has got many current map.

It's nowhere.

It isn't anywhere near 600.

Second.

So the benefit of being on the map actually is that you're showing yourself as a drive instructor, you're showing yourself to not just be delivering those mechanical skills of learning to drive and getting a new driver to the point of zero to hero being surpassing a DBSA minimum standard, because that's all the driving test is, it's a minimum standard required to get that piece of paper in your hand to say that you passed a practical test.

But it's actually, it's about giving them the life skills for years to come.

So one, they make the right decision at the right moment in time when they haven't gotten accident structure so they don't get involved in a serial supper collision.

But also they harness their license for a lot longer as well because it's an awful lot easier, it's so easy for a young, a young person to lose their license in the first two years of having it.

And thousands do.

Every year thousands of thousands lose their license.

About half of them, interestingly, for incorrect or no insurance, bizarrely.

But if you know, you think about, I know you know, virtually every young driver will tell you, well, if I'm caught, my mobile phone, that's six points, 200 pounds, my license stopped, you know, if I caught speeding, that's 3.11.

So if I get a speed fight, it's two speeding bikes, that's gone.

Yeah, we all know that.

How many young drivers know they get caught with a bald tire, that's three points on their license.

And that's the sorts of things that a lot of young drivers are going to let inch as much life out of the tire as possible because they're not cheap.

So if you know, but incorrect, you know, over bulge, tears, cracks, cold, showing insufficient tread, all these sorts of things that can lead them to losing their license just as much as speeding or using mobile phone or driving out to get an attention.

So actually the reality of a young driver losing their license in the first two years, probably far higher, far, far higher and far more likely than them getting involved in a serious effect collision.

So actually the honest truth is all about giving young drivers giving you drivers those essential life skills to make the right decision at the right moment in time, which results in them not being stopped by the police or not getting involved in the collision.

That's what it's all about.

And using a driving instructor and recognizing a driving instructor for the road safe road safety professional, you and every single one of your colleagues is terrible.

You know, you are always safer professionals and you are in this unique position of influence to be able to influence the next generation of drivers.

And all we're doing at the honest truth, giving you, hate the phrase, it's an old headquarters phrase, giving you the tools to do it.

Here is the tool.

Here is a toolbox.

Here is a toolbox of resource to deliver that road Safety seamlessly as car driving license.

It becomes business as usual, as promoting business.

I'm going to tell you a very brief anecdote of.

Because this will amuse you, but I'll keep it brief.

Google Maps is supplied.

Just to clarify, not the honest truth map, but I got an email a little while ago from my local brewery.

Brewery, can't say it.

Brewery.

I really can't say the word.

My local ale house, Saltair.

Saltair Brewery, yeah.

Saying that I'd accidentally register my.

Put my driving school on Google Maps to their address, not mine.

So TC Drive was registered to Saltair Brewery.

I also wanted to touch a little bit, just briefly on the webinars that you do, so.

Cause a lot of people won't realize that you run these webinars.

So do you want to just tell us a bit about the webinars?

Absolutely.

So every quarter we look to run a webinar.

We are due one.

It's actually just after Christmas this year because we've got to Christmas now.

So we try and we look to run a webinar every quarter and we look to get guest speakers.

So I actively look around for guest speakers that I think would be of interest to driving instructors.

So we've had Alan Hiscott, the British Horse Society was very popular, but Sophie Lydon from Fresh Drivers UK talking about tyre safety, Again, very popular.

And the last one we had, the most recent one we had was all September to August.

Time was a chuckle.

Jack Collins from a company called Accusensus.

Now, Accusensus are involved in the manufacture and deployment of AI technology cameras for police forces around the country to detect mobile phone and seatbelt fences.

And that was phenomenally popular.

Really, really popular.

A lot of very positive feedback from that particular one.

A lot of information that the instructors that were present didn't know.

Understandably, it's very new technology, but actually some really useful things that they could then pass on to their students.

So what I tried to do with the webinars is find somebody who can give information that can improve your knowledge as instructors to be able to pass on to your pupils.

So make it relevant to your pupils, basically, and for yourselves to improve your, you know, improve your own knowledge as well.

We consider that any webinar that if a driving instructor attends one of our webinars, that actually counts as CPD as well, that there's no reason that can't count CPD towards your.

You stand as checks when they come round.

Yeah, so we mentioned there the webinars, we've mentioned the map that we can sign up to and also the fact that students get that follow up email with some sort of tips and the video included as well.

They were the three things without, to me, I think a lot of people won't be aware of with the Honest Truth.

Is there anything I miss said you think?

I think those three really good points, Terry, and I've run on some digress when it talks about the map.

So the idea behind driving instructors going onto the map is that actually particularly safety partnerships that we are working with, they're encouraging parents and young people who are looking for driving lessons to actually actively find a driving instructor who delivers the Honest truth and they're encouraging people to do that.

So, you know, because they know that those that are delivering on this truth are delivering those essential life skills alongside the mechanical skills and learn to drive that, that they've.

Those instructors who are Honest Truth accredited, if you like, have committed to investing in road safety as much as they have invested, they are investing in getting a young person through that DVSA standard test.

So this is something that we really encourage parents and pupils and what have you to say, look, look for an instructor who delivers the Honest Trip because they're delivering this added value and benefits around these lessons.

They're delivering these life skills associated with driving, not just the mechanical skills.

So we understand and I've spoken to a lot of driving instructors as to why they've not been on the back and they said, well, I don't need the business, you know, I know so many instructors at the moment have got waiting lists of two or three months that students and pupils want lessons and they don't need the extra business, they don't need to market all those sorts of things, which is great.

And I'm so pleased the industry that's the case.

That isn't always going to be the case.

So actually you've got nothing to lose by putting yourself, you know, onto the Honest Truth map at all.

The new pro, the new registration process, it's an opt out, not an opt in process.

So actually I would expect probably to see a lot more driving structures appear on the map as new ones register.

With the new mapping system we've got coming on board, all those who are currently on the map will all be transferred across to the new map in due course once that new map's up and running.

So if you're on our existing map, it will be transferred across to the new maps framework.

I want to also tag in there and say it makes the industry look more professional, so You've got those parents looking on there and there's a difference between seeing six instructors, 600 instructors and 6,000 instructors.

You know, I think that the more instructors on there, the better the industry looks.

At least that's my opinion.

And I'm sure there's instructors that disagree, but, you know, whatever, I wouldn't.

I wouldn't disagree with that.

Cool.

Well, I think we've covered a lot today.

I've really enjoyed getting into some of these bits a bit more deep.

So just before I let you go, is there anything else you want to touch on or do you want to take a moment to remind people where they can find the Honest Truth and sign up?

Absolutely.

Honest Truth.

You can find us at www.the honest truth.co.uk We've got a Facebook page website.

Again, you can join up via the website.

Really straightforward.

There's a join button on the website.

Automatic process.

You can be.

You can have the app downloaded, done the onboarding and be delivering on the streets your pupils within about, probably under 30 minutes from your first inquiry.

So, really straightforward.

And we have funding in a number of areas still as well.

So we have got funded areas that, again, when you pick your area on the website, it'll tell you if that's funded or not.

So, yeah, basically we're working with a number of road safety partnerships now that very kindly provided funding for instructors in their area to be able to access the Honest Trees at either half the normal cost or completely free, depending on which area it is.

Cool.

Well, big thank you for joining us today on this extended version of all these final thoughts.

Terry, I'm so pleased and I'm so sorry.

We get ourselves down rabbit holes doing these and I know that it's my final thought and my final thought then turns into an awful lot more than that, but I am very grateful for you for giving me the time to talk about these things.

It's great.

It's really good.

And, oh, one last thing is both to yourself, Terry, and to all your listeners and all those around, the instructor podcast is to have a very safe, happy and relaxing Christmas and New Year.

Indeed.

And you too, all of you too.

Thank you, Tillery.