Today’s episode dives deep into the challenging dynamics of family relationships, particularly when it comes to in-law issues. Kassie, our caller, shares her heartfelt struggle of supporting her husband as they navigate the emotional turmoil of cutting ties with his father, compounded by the loss of his mother and the complexities of a new step-parent in the picture. The hosts, Dave and Ashley, offer empathy and guidance, emphasizing the importance of maintaining a balance between being a strong advocate for one's spouse and providing a listening ear. They discuss the grieving process that accompanies such decisions and highlight the significance of prayer and healthy boundaries in fostering healing. We'll discuss navigating these tough family waters while keeping love and compassion at the forefront.

If you'd like your questions featured on the podcast, click the link below to submit your questions! https://lp.daveandashley.com/call-in

In This Episode:

• Creating boundaries with in-laws can be challenging, but it's essential for family health.
• Empathy is crucial when supporting your spouse through difficult family dynamics and grief.
• Prayer can help soften hearts, allowing for healing and hope in broken relationships.
• It's important to recognize the grieving process involved in cutting ties with family.
• Maintaining a united front with your spouse during tough family issues strengthens your marriage.
• Understanding that healing takes time and is a journey can help manage expectations.

Show Notes:

Navigating the complexities of familial relationships can often feel like traversing a minefield, especially when the dynamics involve emotional and narcissistic abuse. In this heartfelt episode of the Marriage on the Line podcast, hosts Dave and Ashley Willis engage with a caller named Kassie, who shares her poignant struggles with her husband's familial ties. Kassie's journey has been fraught with disappointment as her husband grapples with the fallout from a toxic relationship with his father, worsened by the loss of his mother and the introduction of a new stepparent. The couple has made the difficult decision to cut ties for the sake of their family's well-being, a move that has led to deep emotional turmoil and grief.

The conversation delves into the dual roles Kassie wishes to fulfill as both a protective partner and a compassionate listener. The hosts offer empathetic advice, emphasizing the importance of balance during such trying times. They discuss the grieving process inherent in severing familial ties, particularly when one must grapple with the realities of a living parent who is emotionally unavailable. The hosts encourage Kassie to remain a supportive presence for her husband, advocating for open communication and the necessity of acknowledging their shared pain.

Throughout the episode, Dave and Ashley draw on their own experiences to provide practical advice, suggesting resources like their book, 'Married into the Family', and the classic 'Boundaries' by Dr. Henry Cloud. They emphasize the significance of prayer, not only for healing but as a means to maintain a tender heart amidst the hurt. The discussion culminates in a heartfelt prayer for Kassie and her husband, encapsulating the episode's core message: that amidst the pain of familial division, there remains hope for healing and reconciliation, grounded in faith and understanding.

Links referenced in this episode:

• @daveandashleywillis
• @marriageonthelinepodcast
• Ask Dave And Ashley Your Question
• daveandashley.com

Well, hello there.

Hey, friends. Welcome back to the Marriage on the Line podcast. And we are so excited about today's caller. It's going to be a good one.

We're so glad that all of you are here. Just a reminder, you can be featured on this podcast. We would love to hear from you.

We don't have to use your real name if you want to remain anonymous, but we would love to talk to you on air about your marriage question. So the easiest way to get that process started is to write us on Instagram.

Aveandashley Willis, send us a DM there or on the Marriage on the Line Instagram page. Or you can click on the link in the show notes and that will start the process.

That's right. And so we have our caller today and her name is Kassie. And Kassie, welcome to the Marriage on the Line podcast.

Yes, thanks so much for having me.

Well, we are so excited to hear your questions. So what would you like to talk about today? What's your question?

So, just a little bit of a backstory.

My husband and I have recently been going through some in law issues actually, and I know that you guys have a book on that and wrote a lot of articles on it. And so just brief history.

Sorry, it takes a little bit of an explanation, but it's just been years of us just kind of dealing with some emotional and narcissistic abuse for my husband and watching him kind of struggle to try to keep a relationship with his father. And his mom passed away a couple years ago. So there's a stepparent involved and it's just kind of made things really difficult.

And so we've recently decided to cut all ties with them. And it just kind of made sense for our family. It was causing a lot of hurt and a lot of not only with him, but with our kids.

And so we decided for the health of our family to kind of take a step back and say we're not going to deal with this anymore. Which has been really sad and hurtful and really hard.

But the hardest part is watching your spouse kind of go through basically losing a parent and the parent not wanting to even fight for the relationship. And so I guess my question is it's been really hard for me to know the balance of being defensive for my husband also, but also like a listening ear.

So when your spouse is going through this thing where they're losing a parent, how do I best support him in this time? And how do I be a balance of, I guess just like a strong voice for him? But Also like a listening ear.

Like what's the right way for me to navigate this season in our marriage?

Wow, that's so hard. Yeah. I'm so thankful for this question because I know that so many, so many listeners can relate to some. Every family dynamics different.

But there are so many similarities in some of the struggles and we've experienced in our own marriage. Some of what you're describing, not the exact same scenario, but certainly some of the difficulties that you're talking about.

And it can be so difficult when somebody that you hoped and believed and dreamed were always going to be your biggest fan and one of your greatest allies in life, a parent. And then to have this severed relationship. It's heartbreaking. So you did reference a book that we have on this. It's called Married into the Family.

It's a book we wrote with the exomarriage ministry when we were part of that team and encourage you to check out that resource. It's a great book and we're proud of it. It has a lot of our own story in it. But talking specifically about your situation.

Kassie, sweetie, where would you start?

Man, I just. I think I can just feel the heaviness. Kassie and I have a kind of an inkling that this has probably been a long journey for you all.

And I bet you're just emotionally exhausted because, you know, it just.

Just to get to that point, I know it took a lot of prayer, a lot of talks, a lot of, you know, trying to make this work and then when someone you love isn't going to make it work. And it sounds like too you said that there is a new wife involved and it sounds like maybe she's not willing to bend too. Is that correct?

And so it's kind of made things worse.

Yeah, not willing to bend, but also like causing a divide between siblings, like, oh, pitting siblings against each other. And so the siblings had to come together and kind of be like, hey, did you say this? And did you say this?

And siblings fighting for years over things that were just not true in situations that were not true. And so it's called cause healing between siblings. But just ultimately all of the kids have decided to step away from the parent situation.

So wow, I'm so sorry I went through that.

But I mean, to cause anybody causing just outright dissension in a family, I know that that's just heartbreaking and I'm glad you guys have come together. But I know that this decision, you know, didn't come lightly. And there is. And I think you've Recognized this.

There is a grieving process with the cutting off of ties because not only. You said your husband has already lost his mother, and so there's the grief from that. And grief is such a unique.

I mean, we go through some of the same stages of grief, but it's unique in how long we spend in each of those stages. And so to lose the mother and then now the father, but he's still living.

You know, I've heard some people say that when you have to have these kind of relational cutting of ties, that knowing someone is living but you can't really be around them is almost worse than them actually dying because they are, they are still here in the world. They are. You know, I mean, it's like, I'm sure there's this part of you guys that is like wishing it could be a different way, but it's not.

And knowing, you know, we, like you said, for our own mental health, our own marriage and our own just sanity, we cannot continue on in this relationship as is. And so as far as supporting your husband, the first and biggest thing is just empathy, I think.

And I sense that, you know, from you, Kassie, very much so. But I think like on really hard days for both of you because I know this is hard on you too.

I know he's not your parent, but he's still your, your father in law. And I think, you know, there's probably feelings in you knowing some of the hurt that your father in law caused not only to you, but to your husband.

It can, it can. I think you referenced this earlier. It can make. It's easy to get very defensive. Right.

And to let like resentment really kind of build up in your system.

And I think, you know, so number one, have empathy for your spouse and for the situation, but also being really careful to not like feast on the anger. I think anger is part of any grieving process.

Recognize the anger which you rightfully have, but not allow the anger to really take root and become like this, us against them mentality.

I'm going to close the door because.

Our speaking of anger is going crazy.

Little chihuahua here.

I'll close it. I got it.

She has some real anger issues of her own and we're working on her. We're praying for her salvation, working that she can get that under control.

Oh, my goodness. Chi Chi.

Yeah. Everything Ashley said so important. And Ashley is such a gifted counselor.

So when she speaks this, she's speaking as one who has walked through a lot of this, having to navigate relationship with a dear family, loved one who went through a period of years where there were some real mental health issues, some very narcissistic behavior, very unhealthy and hurtful actions, where we had to create some hard boundaries in our own life, similar to what you're describing, and we had to grieve ourselves through that. So let me say a few things just to kind of go along right with what Ashley's saying.

Number one, God actually hates it when there's drama being stirred up. The way that it sounds like, you know, this one person has been actively stirring up drama, and we think, how could God hate anything? God is love.

Well, because God loves so much, he hates the things that harm those that he loves.

And in the book of Proverbs, there's a list of seven things that God actually hates, the Bible says, and so it shows us his heart because he has such a passionate response to these negative behaviors, showing how much he loves us.

And the last of those seven, kind of the exclamation point on the list of that seven things that God hates, is someone who stirs up division in the family. Someone who stirs up drama. Stirs up. And part of that, too, leading up to the drama. It's kind of a recipe for what creates drama.

He hates lying, and that's been part of creating this drama. He hates, you know, the things that create it just being disregarding other people.

So when there's someone that's acting in a really unhealthy, unhealthy way like that, I think it's wise to create some separation. We still love them, we still pray for them, but we don't have to be a doormat. We don't have to allow ourselves to be manipulated or bullied.

That's not love, you know, that's enabling really unhealthy behavior on their part and also wounding ourselves in the process. So creating boundaries.

The book Boundaries by doctors John Townsend and Henry Cloud is a longstanding masterpiece on this subject that helped us 20 plus years ago when we were walking through this. And putting those firm boundaries in place was helpful. The grieving part that Ashley mentioned is important too.

Just when you get to these holidays and we're coming up on holiday season, and that's when we feel these family tensions the most. I think we feel the loss. We have to kind of grieve what we thought Thanksgiving and Christmas was going to look like with these loved ones.

We have to grieve what's been taken away from us.

And we also have to pray and kind of hold out hope and still have that empty seat at the table for hoping and believing one day there will be reconciliation and doing our part to leave bridges intact as much as possible, even though right now there has to be some boundaries on those bridges because every time they've crossed them, they've wounded you.

But to say our hope is still that there's gonna come a day when there can be healing, there can be reconciliation, and when that day comes, we wanna be in a position where we can look back and really not have regret for how we've handled it. And saying, like, we're not doing anything on our part to. To stir up things more or to turn people against them.

We're not doing anything on our part to allow our hearts to grow hard in the process. Because God will always bless a broken heart, but he won't bless a hardened heart.

So when the Bible says he's close to the brokenhearted, he rescues those whose spirits are crushed.

It's a reminder to us that he's with us in our pain, but it's also a reminder that in our pain to stay tender and not to shake our fist in anger toward God for allowing this to happen, or toward these people who wounded us. Because when somebody wounds us the way they're wounding you, it's because they are broken, right? It's a brokenness in them.

And so to try to look at them with pity instead of with anger and saying, lord, there's a wound there, there are lies. They're believing there's brokenness in them. And I pray that you'd heal them. I pray God you'd reveal, you know, any.

Any blind spots I have, because we all have those. And as a family, as a marriage, help us to stay united.

So, Kassie, you're so wise to want to minister to your husband in this difficult time, to want to love him and be a listening ear, to want to build him up.

Because when a son at any age feels like he doesn't have his father's approval, it can be an identity shaking blow to a man at any age, or a woman at any age for that matter too, if it was you and your father or mother for that matter. But there is something that. That whole father son thing, and you look in Scripture and you see a lot of. A lot of broken father son relationships.

And I think that the recipe that God gives us for all of them is to find that affirmation we need in our heavenly Father first and foremost, who's so pleased with us and so loves us, receive all his words about us, and then to look at our earthly father is as broken as they may be, with love, with compassion, with honor, as best we can, and with a lot of forgiveness for the things that they've maybe done wrong. So, Kassie, this is such a great.

Question, and I just want to say too, I think one of the best things you all can do is keep praying together for your own healing, but also praying for the healing of your father in law and his stepmom as well.

And I feel like when we pray for others, it really protects us from that hardened heart that Dave is talking about, because it's really hard to pray for someone and be angry at them and stay angry at them at the same time. And so just keep praying.

And I know there's probably part of you that's like, well, gosh, I just don't want to keep on bringing it to mind because distance really does help heal. But I think you can keep that prayer short, but just, just so you're keeping yourselves in the right heart posture. It really, really helps.

And I think too, on really hard days, if your husband comes to you and he's just having a rough day and he's, he's kind of getting down in the dumps about it and maybe bordering on building up resentment, I think one of the most loving things you can do is kind of kindly but lovingly, you know, have that empathy and say, you know, yeah, I know this is hard. And I'm, I hate this dynamic too. I don't like what they did.

But remember, you know, we, we don't want to get, we don't want this anger to become resentment. And let's say a quick prayer for them right now. And so he's, he can express those feelings. You can too.

And you guys can have that posture of curiosity and not judgment, like, well, why are you feeling triggered today? Like, what happened today that brought that in? Was it something you saw on tv?

Was it a friend who was talking about his dad and it made you miss your dad? Was it the fact that Christmas is around the corner? And back when you were growing up, you and your dad always went and bought the tree together.

And now that just can't happen. Like, you know, like thinking about why is it talk about it.

But then if it starts to border on, like, the resentment, I mean, you both giving each other permission to gently remind each other, hey, the thing how this situation could steal more of our peace is if we allow this to become an us against them dynamic, and we don't want that, you know. Yeah.

And be okay with them misunderstanding you and.

Right.

And even saying things that aren't true. I think I saw a quote yesterday.

We reposted it on our Instagram about sometimes maturing in Christ means learning to be okay with people misrepresenting you, thinking wrong things about you, saying wrong things about you, and trusting God to fight your battles. And I would just say keep trusting God to fight this battle.

And Kassie, we don't always do this, but we want to pray for you and for your husband and for anybody that is wrestling with these in law dynamics, especially with holidays going up. So is there, other than what we've talked about, any specific ways we can pray for you right now?

I think just. Yeah. Healing for him, it's been really hard. And you were right.

The father son dynamic, he's tried really hard for a long time to create this relationship that just isn't going to happen. Or right now at least isn't going to happen. And it's been a lot of just disappointment and hurt and.

Yeah, just praying that he wouldn't parent in spite of his dad. I think that that's important. We've been praying that a lot, like a book fair is coming up.

And he was like, I was never allowed to get books at a book fair and my daughter will get whatever she wants. And I was like, well, let's not look at it like that.

So just things like that, that he would parent, you know, not in spite of his dad, but because we have a great father and that teaches him how to parent. And so, yeah, that's just kind of where we're at right now.

Yeah, that's. Yeah, that's really good.

Yeah, you all have so much wisdom. But sweetie, you want to pray.

Yes.

And last thing I'll say before I pray is that, you know, we mentioned we walked through a really difficult situation that had a lot of similarities to what you're describing. And at the time it felt impossible. It felt like surviving it was all we could hope for.

But a relationship, a healthy relationship, seemed out of the question. And I will say that 20 plus years later, God's over time, done a miracle, and those relationships have been restored.

We actually enjoy each other's company now, celebrate each other, love each other, even like each other. And I'm telling you, I could have seen somebody walk on water right in front of me and it would have been less surprising than this is true.

This is true than that. So God still does miracles.

He does. And it did require distance, I will say.

Yeah, it requires distance and boundaries and a Lot of the pain that you're walking through right now, but God did the miraculous. God is going to do. He's going to.

He's going to fight some battles for you and just, you know, just believe that it never comes as quickly as we want, but he's doing that. So I want to pray for you, Kassie, and for everybody listening who might be going through something similar. Let's pray.

Father, thank you for the gift of family. It is such a gift. It's a gift you instituted.

The very first gift you instituted, Lord, was bringing man and woman together in marriage and then giving them family. You created family before you created government, before you created the church, before you created really anything, any other structure.

And it's your idea. And it's a beautiful gift, guy, but it's so complicated.

It reveals our own brokenness, and it brings some of the deepest joys in life, but also some of the deepest pain. And I want to lift up Kassie and her husband right now. I want to lift them up specifically. Thank you for their faithfulness.

Thank you for their courage. Thank you for the way they're navigating this difficult road. With wisdom, help them continue to be peacemakers.

Help them continue to work for unity among the siblings, and help them, Lord, to someday have a healthy relationship with Kassie's father in law and his wife. I pray, God, that you'd reach that father and his wife and help them, Lord, grow closer to you.

Help them, Lord, just see the blind spots that maybe they've fallen into and help them work toward peace and reconciliation as well. And I just pray for a miracle in this family. And I know you're still in the miracle business.

And I pray for every family, every individual listening whose hearts are heavy because they're walking through something like this or they've walked through it, maybe that loved one is now dead and on this side of heaven, they know they're not going to have that moment of reconciliation they'd hoped for, and they grieve that. But as they grieve, Lord, hold them close.

Let them know that heaven's a place where you're going to wipe every tear from our eyes and that you have healing in store for us. And sometimes that healing doesn't happen here on earth the way we want it to.

But ultimately, Lord, we know that because of what you, Jesus, have done for us, the end of the story is always reconciliation. The end of the story is always healing and joy. So we look forward to that. But we also pray for the miracles here on earth.

In Kassie's story and in many other stories. Like hers, like ours. And we thank you for the faithfulness of the miracles you've done in our own lives and countless others.

And we pray for that miracle for Kassie. In Jesus name. Amen.

Thank you so much and thank you all so much for joining us on this episode of Marriage on the Line.

And be sure if you love this content, the best way for you to keep getting it and to spread the word is to make sure that you like and subscribe and share this with a friend. And also we would love to hear from you.

If you want to be like Kassie and ask a question, you can go to Instagram and DM us and we'll get you in touch with our producers and our Instagram handle is aveandashleywillis. Or you can go to our podcast podcast handle at Marriage on the Line podcast. We will make sure that we can get you on here.

But we just are so grateful for you all and we will see you next time.