HOORAY!  We made it to March and part two of Theron Olivar’s marvelously encouraging story.  In this week’s episode, Theron revisits his “Gold Star” Mormon mission, how coming out led to the loss of community and friendships and discovered that when allowing ourselves to let our deepest desires lead, we beautifully impact everything around us; love and support spreads through our family and community.  We also discuss interesting post Mormon shenanigans and his decision to run for tribal council. 

Theron’s story is definitely one for the books and too fascinating and hilarious and to cut short.  You can listen to the first part of our conversation here:

https://leaving-in-color.captivate.fm/episode/returning-home-to-yourself-with-theron-olivar-part-1

About our guest:

Theron Olivar is an Arizona Native (Apache) who was raised Lutheran and converted to the LDS faith at the age of 18. He volunteers his time to support ALL (Arizona LDS LGBT), a cause that speaks to his heart. He works in compliance and has a long career in the world of finance. Theron now believes that he is who he's meant to be, that life is too short to over analyze everything and is excited to see what the future holds. He currently lives in Arizona with his long-time love and partner. 

Mentioned:

ALL: Arizona LDS LGBT https://www.allarizona.org/ 

LDS Mission Training Center https://provo.mtc.byu.edu/

Connect with Leaving in Color:

Instagram - @leavingincolor.pod 

Email - leavingincolorpod@gmail.com

Music by Tucker Winters

Art by Jen Cagle Gilmore

Editing by Particulate Media

Hello, welcome to Living In Color, a podcast about uncovering your

radiant self after losing your faith.

I am your host, Christina Elmer.

I'm so delighted you found us.

Hello everyone!

We have made it!

We survived the drudges of January and February, and

thank god we made it to March.

We are in the season of rebirth and growth, revitalization, everything's

starting to bloom again, and the world is green and just amazing and glorious again.

Well, here we are, part two of Theron's story, Returning Home to Yourself.

I am very excited for this week's episode.

And just a content warning before you continue on with this episode if you

have kids in the car or are sensitive to, just a sensitive soul, just a

content warning for this episode.

You might want to pause on this episode and wait for upcoming episodes.

Speaking of which, we are going to take a small hiatus here at Leaving in Color.

Don't worry.

We will be back at some point in the near future.

But please keep an eye out on our socials our only social media

account on Instagram, leavingincolor.

pod for any further updates on when we might be back.

But without further ado, here is part two of Theron's episode.

I hope you enjoy and we will see you very, very soon.

So how was your mission experience overall?

You mentioned you had baptisms, which I mean, that's the marker for any person

serving a mission for the Mormon church is like, you know, there's that scripture

that says, like, if you bring but one soul unto me, you know, yours is a kingdom

of God like, What was, your mission,

It was great.

How successful were you Elder Olivar?

So the key is stars.

So within your mission, you'd have to get stars, right?

So for reference, I'm showing her my

journal.

Oh, oh,

These are all the

stars.

Yeah.

So he's showing me his mission journal.

And I had 110

Wow.

baptisms.

Yeah, so they're all labeled.

It's like whether, gold stars are for when I found them, taught them and

baptized them, and I got to do the baptizing like, and so silver stars are

if I came in within the discussions and, um, taught them a little bit, but they

still wanted me to be the baptizing one.

So red stars are just people that I taught, but somebody else baptized.

Interesting.

I didn't know that that was a my, my ex husband never mentioned

anything like that on his mission.

Was it?

Do you think that that was just specific to the Argentina Buenos Aires mission?

Or,

yeah, it's, it's, it's not a common thing.

I learned from, from my trainer.

Cause he, he started it.

So when you get the, uh, stickers from like the dollar store and you

pay like one peso for like a hundred stars, and that's how I got the key.

And I'm like, okay, like, let me just put these down for the names

that I, so I wouldn't forget them.

And like, so I got track of like the districts that I was in, um, their

names, the dates and all that stuff.

So I would keep track.

It didn't matter on the mission.

But it was just for my, my reference

Very cool.

It was an awful, amazing time

Mm.

out on the mission.

Just because like being away from my family for so long being, because

originally we're tight knit and all of a sudden now I can't talk to

them, you know, like, and I didn't understand why I didn't understand.

I could only speak to them for, you know, half an hour.

And I've got four siblings, my parents, my grandparents.

They'd all go to the house and hope to speak with me.

And I was just like, Oh, hi guys.

Like, how are you guys?

And you have to make it short.

and then just say like, Hey, give me your number.

I'll call you.

And I'm, I'd have to say no.

Like I, I can't talk to you.

Cause I have to free up the line for my companion who's going to call.

And sometimes you're living with four dudes in a house,

Mm hmm.

which is another another story to go along with.

But yeah, it's just, it's great because you learn how to approach

people, you learn how to have that human aspect and that human contact

and spark conversation about religion.

That's not an easy thing to open up conversations these days.

Yeah.

Yeah.

so it's just, it teaches you a lot to get outside the box.

It teaches you a lot of life skills.

Like I'm an excellent salesman.

If I went into sales, it would have been amazing.

But.

I went the accounting route.

Yeah.

But if I could do it again, I wouldn't, but I'm glad I did.

As contradicting as that is.

No, I don't think it's contradicting at all.

You know, because from 19 to 21, you're answering to somebody and

you're giving up two years of your life.

You're taking, you're putting your education on pause.

Yeah.

To go out and recruit, which it

is

Yeah.

It is recruiting, yeah.

recruiting, One of the, one of the pivotal moments within the, the

mission was, um, so the ceremony we were speaking about, about the, um, coming of

age of women and when they become women.

Mm hmm.

I only have one sister, so I've got three brothers, one sister.

She became a woman while I was out on the mission.

So she was like 14 and so I was just like, okay, now I have to go home.

And so I had to have a discussion with my mission president and I was just like,

Hey, you know, like, this is going on.

I have to go home.

Because my dad was on the tribal council.

So he was one of the council members.

And my mom was like, Hey, this happened.

I'll see you at the house.

Like you're coming home.

And so I had a discussion with the mission president.

First he tried coming at me to say sins of the fathers and all that stuff.

And I said, no, this isn't religious.

This is ceremonial.

And we got to talking and he's like, he had my best friend,

the friend that I studied during high school and he was Mormon.

And I kind of went in, went in with him.

And then he's the one that actually baptized me, but they got him

to call me, uh, because he was serving a mission in New York.

So, my buddy called me to try and talk me off the cliff as I

was ready to get on the plane.

I'm like, my parents

Mmm.

just to get me home.

Yeah.

And, yeah, I stayed and I missed my sister ceremony.

That's so heartbreaking.

Was there any resentment from your family when you got home?

Because that's a, that's a, that's a big thing.

Your only sister, you know, you're serving a mission and you're serving

a church that they view as a cult.

Yes, but they were kind enough uh, they were, they

were gracious enough not to throw it in my face or anything like that.

It was, it was more me.

Like, I was like, my sister's my best friend.

Yeah.

You wanted to go home, you want to support there, support her and be there for it.

And they were manipulating you into staying.

They used actual manipulation to keep you from going home to be with your family,

which is just completely mind boggling.

As you and I both know that the Mormon church claims to be very family oriented.

Like they have the motto, families can, family first,

families can be together forever.

Families are forever, right?

Right?

Yeah.

Oh, Theron.

Which is what, I guess, uh, the regret comes from for the Church

is because they said, if you break this act, um, more or less, it's going

to affect the viewpoint of my family.

So if they want to be with me forever, and if I want to get sealed to them, what

impression am I making on them by just leaving, you know, the missionary work.

And I was just like, you're right.

So I guess this is any, and he would tell me this, my mission president.

Uh, he told me like, this is just an instant compared to eternity.

And I'm like.

You know what?

You're right.

You know, if I want to be with my family forever, cool.

Now did I actually believe in everything?

Now, looking back, I didn't.

I wasn't in it for the right reason.

I just, after a while you repeat it for so much, so many times that you,

you, you buy in now, now I'm vested.

And so I listened and I stayed, I told my family I was staying.

And even to this day, my sister will take jabs at me and be like,

Oh yeah, you should have been at my, like, we call it dance.

And it's, um, it's a social event.

It's the social event of the year, like of every girl's life, and I missed it.

So, and I'm just like, man, it's like I wish I saw it.

And how far into your mission was this?

Like a year and a...

I was district leader, so it was like a year into my mission?

And, you know, the effects of it really had gotten to me just because

it was like crap, I missed this pivotal moment in my sister's life,

just to stay out here and work on me.

You know, it's like, who the hell am I?

Who am I to miss stuff?

And by then I met Tucker and Tucker and I became friends

because we'd just talk trash.

We'd talk trash about nonsense.

We'd just go on walks.

We were in a pretty much in a dying, we call them dying areas where

nobody would talk, speak to us.

But yeah, we just would just block off our days, say we had

appointments and just hang out.

I love

that.

So it was great.

Were you guys ever companions?

we were never companions.

We went on splits one time and splits is just when you trade

partners with within your district.

Trade companions, yeah.

And yeah, so we did splits one time and then we just clicked and I

was just like, hey, you're, you're cool.

And he's, and so we just, talked about back home, you know, I found out where

it was from and it was just chill.

He was a good break and I used him as my therapist sometimes,

I'd sit there and on our walks, I just talked to him, but, yeah.

You picked a good one.

Yeah.

I love that kid.

Thank you.

I like to think so.

I like to think so, but yeah.

I'm glad he's, he's shared some fond memories of his time on

his mission with you, I think.

if nothing at all, like the people that you meet during those two years, you

know, sometimes they're there for a moment and other times, like, you know,

you have people that are in your life forever and they just kind of pop up and

Which is what it is, it's, because the weird thing about the mission

is you never really get to know each other because you're under a whole facade.

You're elder, your last name, and you're a representative of Jesus Christ.

And, um, so you never really get to open up.

And I feel like he and I, we just bonded.

We just shot the shit and we just opened up and that was it.

To this day, we still keep in touch.

I mean, and we spent maybe the equivalent of three, four days together,

Okay.

over the span of two years.

But whenever we saw each other, that was just it.

I was like, Oh, you're my brother.

Yeah, I love that.

I guess we connected under trauma.

Who knows?

Yeah, there's something to be said about that for sure.

You know, it's difficult.

I can't imagine serving a mission and everything that you go through and then

finding someone that's like, almost feels like home That's just like, okay, this

is, like you said, this is my brother.

Or for me, it would be like, this is my sister or brother and,

you know, you just hit it off.

And you know, if we want to put it in Mormon terms, it's like somebody

that you knew in a past life or, you know, in the pre existence,

like, you know, it's probably like.

We fought together.

Yes, did you ever watch the crazy?

It's not crazy.

I shouldn't say it's crazy, cause I was obsessed with it.

The movie Saturday's Warrior.

It came out in the 70s.

Tucker hasn't seen it either, and I was obsessed with it.

You may be able to find it on YouTube, but like, it's, it's a Mormon musical

that essentially like, tells a story about a specific, a certain family

Uh huh.

and how this family knew everybody in their preexistence and

how they chose to come to this specific family at a specific time, like it

shows them choosing their birth order.

And so, since leaving Mormonism and doing a lot of study and reading into all

the things that we're kind of, Illegal in Mormonism, you know, looking into

like past lives and things like that.

I know that souls have met, you know, the people that we meet in this

lifetime, we've known it's some fashion in a former life and a past life.

And Mormonism does have, you know, I think that's one thing that I

did enjoy about it was like, you, you knew somebody before you came.

And this time in your life, you know, in this, in this form.

And so I told Tucker is like, I feel like I know you from earlier.

And I wanted to sing songs from Saturday's Warrior.

And he's like, I don't know what you're talking about.

And again, you don't even know either, but I was, I love, I grew up on that

movie was like, the movie that we always, I always picked to watch.

And I just loved it.

Cause there was a little bit of romance and you know, a girl

doesn't want to like send a boy off on a mission and wait for him.

And.

all the goofy things.

It's so goofy just talking about it.

I'm like, oh, this is cringy.

Hopefully they wait for him.

I mean, that's

Spoiler alert.

She doesn't wait for the boy that she sends off on a mission.

She falls in love with the guy that he converts on the mission.

So anyway, it's kind of funny.

Oh, my gosh.

If If Tucker and I ever can visit you, I'm

going to bring a copy of it.

We're going to sit and I'm going to educate you guys on Saturday's Warrior.

I think I'll need wine.

I will

bring wine.

Yes, well I'll need a lot of alcohol to make it extra entertaining

because it's bizarre, for sure.

So, oh yeah, I, the mission, Well, I'm glad that you met Tucker and

that you guys were able to have a little brotherhood on that.

otherwise difficult experience.

I mean, like you said, there's a lot that someone can learn on a mission.

You already obviously went in with an amazing work ethic.

Like you were like, okay, this is, you know, how do I keep myself busy?

Which it's sad that you felt like you had to keep busy in

order to, mask your true self.

Well, cause like, the end goal still like throughout

the two years is like fix this.

And the weird thing, I mean, I will say like Argentina also one

of the gayest countries there is.

And not, not as a diss.

So nobody please come for me.

No!

I mean,

We love the gays.

It's fine.

We love the gays like I, I have, yeah, if you see people

like everybody would just give each other kisses on the cheeks.

And then if you really got to know with somebody, like they'd kiss you

on the mouth, whether they be men, men would kiss you on the mouth.

And I'm like, this is weird.

Like at first I'm like, what is this?

But within missionaries, we did it as jokes, you know, with every,

whoever we saw, we're like, Oh.

And just kiss each other on the mouth.

And I'm there and I'm like, I am trying to fix and stop this.

So I don't do this.

What's going on?

You know?

Yeah.

I still have that thing in the back of my mind and

I'm just like, what am I doing?

Was I really sent here for a reason?

Which I should have taken as a sign.

Like, Hey, it's okay.

Other people do it.

Yeah, we're so young.

Like, you know, I had signs that I was like, I probably shouldn't do this.

Like marry the person that I did marry, you know, there was like warning signals,

but it's like, well, you know, I prayed about it and God said I should do it.

I felt fine.

I didn't feel anything negative.

So it's probably fine.

It's just, you know, the mental gymnastics set where we get rid

of the signs of the spirit if it's not anything negative, you know.

Doubt your doubts before you doubt your faith.

Right.

And you probably ask, like, should I get married?

And they're like, yes.

And you're like, oh.

Yes, I should get married.

But not to him.

I know that missions are good for people.

I have a friend who, who's kind of, she's like physically in, but mentally

out the, the, the acronym is PIMO.

It's the weirdest thing ever.

Chemo?

PIMO, P I M O.

Yeah.

Physically in, mentally out.

Yeah.

In the church.

Yeah.

There's all sorts of acronyms.

I mean, you know, the church loves acronyms, you know, and I mean, what

organization doesn't love acronyms?

I remember when I spent a year in education, it was like all these acronyms.

I'm like, I don't know what the fuck half of these mean, um,

SSA!

SO

I hate that.

I

we can talk about

SSA.

you know?

Yeah.

Let's talk about that.

Let's, since we're on it, let's go ahead and talk about the, the acronym, S S A.

Same sex attraction.

Oh my god.

yeah, the church says SSA, and so you have to be like, I have SSA.

Like you have a disease.

Did you go to any of those groups?

You didn't?

Okay.

Was it for fear of like being found out?

Oh yeah, so I, because coming from like an all Mormon, um,

town at the time and all Mormon, like majority Mormon college,

okay.

Eastern Arizona, I mean, it's the BYU of the South

is what they call themselves.

And, uh, I had a calling.

I was active in my church.

I was like, Priesthood quorum.

I forgot what it was, something, but a teacher, I think.

And I just left one day.

I was just like, came up to Phoenix, met my bartender, made my friends.

I came up like three weekends before I decided, Hey, this

is, this is where I want to

This is where I want to be.

These are my people.

Yeah.

Right.

And it's, it's almost like I can be me, even though I don't know who that is.

I can relax and I don't have to create a facade just to impress anybody else.

Yeah

It was great.

Eastern Arizona my my dad's family is from that

area, like my great grandmother was good friends with Spencer W.

Spencer W.

Kimball,

He actually cussed.

That was my excuse.

I like, so I would cuss every now and then, and then I'd be like, Oop, convert.

And Spencer W.

would cuss too.

I didn't know that.

He was a prophet of the Lord.

Yeah, he would say ass all the time.

Well, I, I also had a friend when we were living in upstate

New York who was a convert to the church.

And she said, well, I can say hell or damn, cause it's in the Bible.

That makes sense.

Good for you, sister.

At that point, you're, you're quoting scripture.

And talk, yeah, ass is in there too.

Why not?

Yeah, so SSA, um, same sex attracted, that word is so dirty to me.

Like, I cringe now even out being outside of the church.

Like, I cringed in the church, obviously.

cause yeah, I don't, that term, it's like, why can't we say gay?

Why can't we use the word gay?

Right.

I think it just normalizes the whole thing and that makes it too normal.

Like the normalcy of having SSA is being that you are gay.

And that's the accepting part is that you, Hey, I'm gay.

You know, like I, I always joke and say, like, I'm like, my partner

is the gay one and I'm just here.

He happens to be male.

I'm not gay.

Yeah.

So, but it's just like, it turns it into a, like a bad word.

And I, and even to this day, like, I don't say like, Oh yeah, I'm saying I'm gay.

Like, I just say I have a partner and then I'm that it shows up and I'm like, Oh,

this, this is my partner and that's it.

And it's just, one plus one equals two, and that's it.

Am I different?

No.

No.

But one of my friends, he actually comes from, um, from Utah,

so he, not turned me on to, but he enlightened me and disclosed that there

are groups up in Salt Lake City for, um, freemies and ex missionaries married,

and they would just be cuddle parties.

So as long as you have your garments on, you can, you can cuddle.

Uh huh.

What?

Yep.

They would just like cuddle.

Yeah, I have confirmation that those happen.

Like I know.

I know that they do.

I was, I was shooken.

Yes, I can imagine so.

Even on, the other side, I was out one night and then

we met this guy and he was great.

He was funny.

He was hilarious.

He's like, Hey, I live nearby.

Come over for like a follow up drink.

And I was like, okay, cool.

So we went to the house to where the guy had a, had a fetish.

And then I realized what it was.

I'm like, okay, we got to get out of here.

And one of his things is he's an ex, he's, he's an ex missionary.

He's like, I even have a pair of Gs.

In case people want to see them because they get curious about it.

And the amount of ex, ex Mos who want to see me in them, you'd be surprised.

And I'm like, if I see G's if I get to know somebody and I, I see

garments, I'm going to be like.

I am being set up,

Right?

The Mafia's gonna kick down the door, and I'm gone.

Yeah.

Like the Mormon Mafia is going to bust through these doors and

they are going to handcuff you and take you away in a black van.

Like, right?

Right.

And then I'll be at

Like, garments garments are not sexy.

They are not.

They invite all kinds of heat.

They, and, yeah, that's, that's a whole other episode right there.

But,

In itself.

I'm sure for ladies it's the same way.

oh,

Fiber they use, you have like three choices.

Yeah, I think they've gotten better.

Like, I remember, It was within 10 years ago they sent out an

email to members of the church asking for feedback, particularly

women, feedback on garment styles.

And I remember filling it out, because I was like, this is bullshit.

And, I mean, I was one of those women that like, got the smallest size possible.

So that I could like, you know, wear a slightly longer shirt

that would just cover it just enough, you know, just enough.

And then I could wear a skirt that kind of like hit slightly above the knee.

Cause I would get petite and sit in my, you know, just where you're like,

cause sometimes you would just hang.

My ex husband would be like, your skirt is too short.

I'm like, excuse me.

It covers my Gs.

Yeah.

So, and I'm like.

Okay, whatever, it's, no, just stop.

Stop policing my body.

Anyway, but yeah, garments.

That's so interesting that he kept them because ex Mormon, like other

ex Mormon gays that he would meet would want to see him in that?

That's kinky.

Yeah.

Even, he said even gentlemen who weren't affiliated with the

church love the idea of garments.

Yeah.

I don't know if it like fetishizes the, I'm your first,

Kind of does in a way.

I mean, I can, I'm kind of here for it.

I mean, whatever, whatever floats your boat, right?

Everybody has a flavor.

Everybody finds their flavor.

Whatever works for them, right?

That's just really fascinating.

There are people all over TikTok that like, Show the garments, it's out there.

People can find the information out there.

Like the church at once, at one point even had on their website, you could

go and they had pictures of them.

So I had friends that were curious, like, Oh, what does it look like?

Yeah.

Cause they were trying to be less secretive about it.

Right.

Which I appreciate, but they're the least sexiest things ever

They are not attractive.

One time I was like at a gym and I was changing, I got out of the shower and

then this guy got out of the shower too.

And then I saw him put on his jeans.

And first of all, I was taken aback because I'm no longer in

the church at this point, right?

And I looked at him.

I'm like, what are you doing?

You're showing these garments in public, you know, and I remember I

looked around like, you know, read the room and I saw some guy look at him

like What kind of underwear are those?

Like

You can't get those at Costco.

those are, yeah.

And, and I remember like looking like, what are you doing?

You're showing everybody else, even though I wasn't even affiliated with the church.

That's how ingrained it was.

It's like, you don't show that stuff.

So yeah.

So the guy, he's like, do you want to see them?

And I'm like, Oh yeah.

So I saw them and I, and I didn't realize that he wanted, wondered

if I wanted to see him in them, and I'm like, no, I'm gonna go home.

Thank you.

My partner's at home.

And it does nothing for any of the parts

that are fun on a human body.

It doesn't do anything for them.

It does

Nothing.

nothing.

Oh, God.

Goodness.

Oh, that is, oh, that's, that is, that's wild.

That is very rowdy.

I love it.

That would have been wild.

But yeah, okay, so you finished it to your mission you come home

Go back to school.

Yeah.

So I go back to school.

Um, I go back to school with that's predominantly Mormon.

So they gave, they made me the athletic director for the Institute.

Uh, so that was my calling.

And then I started dating, almost got married.

Oh

It would have been picture perfect, right?

And then it gets, it got to the point where I'm like, Hey, well,

internally, of course my monologue's going off and I'm like, would I

love her the way she deserves it?

Cause I, like, I genuinely love her, so, as a person.

And there we go, we revert back to preschool or junior high where

I'm like, I like these people.

I want them to be my friends.

But I'm too scared to show them who I really am.

So you've got all these layers to protect yourself.

And then, with her, it was just like a matter of, that's not fair because

I would love her for having my children, not for being my partner.

Yeah,

It'd be fair to, in a sense, to say, you

want a husband and kids?

I can give you that, but it's transactional because

I still got this going on.

So finally, I did a year.

Um, I moved in with my buddies who all went on missions.

And, um, within that year of school nothing had changed.

So then I was feeling defeated.

I was like, I went on the mission.

I sacrificed two years.

I sacrificed, you know, everything with my home life, my family, for what?

So I went through a depression phase.

And then finally I was just like, you know what?

If you're depressed, you lost on everything, you know, go explore.

So, I decided.

And this is when the internet was new.

So, I MapQuest gay bars in Phoenix, Arizona.

Because that's the nearest big city, right?

Because there was nothing coming up around my vicinity.

And so I printed out the directions, how to get to these gay bars.

And the funny thing is, um, I took time off from school.

I took a weekend off, came to Phoenix, rented a hotel room by

myself, and then went to this gay bar that's no longer there, Amsterdam.

And the first thing I walked in and it was empty.

It was at 7 PM.

I didn't realize that it didn't open until 9 PM.

So I walk in and I'm like, Oh, there's nobody here.

So there aren't any gay people, right?

So I'm like, okay, I need people because I need a social, like

a friend group to function.

Yeah.

And, um, I remember I sat at the bar and they just put the

bar stools down and I sat at the bar.

And so the bartender comes over to me and he's like, Hey, what are you having?

And I looked at him and I was just like, I don't know.

All I do know is I don't like beer.

And he's like, okay.

He's like, well, you know, we're not open.

Right.

And I was like, no, what time do you open?

And he's like, oh nine, but it'll be fun.

And then he asked me where I was from.

So then I found out that he was from Salt Lake and, uh, his name was Josh.

And he was my first bartender.

And he's just like, and back in the day is like, there was,

are you of the yes, right?

That slogan.

he's like, are you, yes.

And I was like, I'm an RM.

And he's like, Oh, me too.

I'm from Salt Lake.

And I was, and I'm thinking, I'm like, how can he bartend at a gay bar?

Like, and so he gave me a drink.

And then he's just like, Yeah, he's like, I'm I'm one too.

And I was like, huh, what?

So we had a whole conversation of like coming out, how hard it is the

impact that it had on family, how you pretty much just have to bunker

down in a city create that friend group to replace your family, right?

And your friends.

Your chosen family.

Uh huh.

Yeah, your chosen family.

And he's like, once you, once people find out it's going to run rampant.

And I didn't know what that meant until it happened.

So I was like, okay.

So I just stayed there.

I'm very social.

So I made friends, talk to people.

I had two, what were they, midori sours.

I've never had one.

I know that that was Britney spears like drink of choice.

Was that an influence?

Like, are you a Britney fan?

Was that an influencing factor?

See, I am, but, uh, I didn't know, I didn't,

I didn't know what that was.

I didn't know what that was.

He was like, Oh, you'll like this.

Cause you don't like, you don't like beer.

Right.

And I'm like, no, I don't, I don't like the smell of it.

I don't know what beer is.

And, uh, so I had a couple of Midori sours.

And then, um, but I talked to people, I made some friends, got invited out the

next weekend and evolved from there.

Made the best friends.

To where I was ready to leave school, ready to leave that life,

and ready to leave it behind me.

And I did, and the second I did and people found out, it was

like, okay, the light's off.

Everybody said their piece amongst each other, they gossiped

about it, because they don't,

They don't know how to have this difficult conversation,

like to have the empathy to be like, Hey, so what's going on with you?

Like, how can I support you?

I've heard this thing.

And instead they just, like a bunch of pecking hens.

Yeah, they spoke amongst themselves and just shut me off.

And all of a sudden my phone stopped ringing.

And I went through my little depressed phase, but um, I got a

second job just to keep me busy.

And um, I just never looked back.

And it's not until actually recently that my old roommate came around and was like,

Hey, I just wanted to say, I'm sorry.

And I'm like, for what?

By then, by this time I'm numb, right?

Like I got teary eyed when I was talking about my sister,

but like, I was like, for what?

And I was like, you have a family, you're married, you're doing all of this.

Um, we were best friends back in the day in college.

And when he stopped talking to me, when he stopped all communication and

everything, I was hurt at the time and then I found out who my real friends were.

I had met my partner, built my life up from nothing it was legit, the dark

ages just because my, you know, my family didn't know how to deal with it,

Had you come out to them as well?

I did.

So it was all in one and I, I told my parents.

And my, my friends found out because I was actually living with a buddy

because we're living in his older brother's house and he got married.

So we lived in that house.

And, um, one weekend, my buddy comes home and he's like, Hey.

The neighbors said there was a Honda Civic parked in the front yard all weekend.

And that's my current partner's old car.

And I was like, oh yeah, I had a buddy over.

I was like, because I didn't want to be home alone.

And he's like, oh, but they said they've seen that car here before.

And I'm like, oh, like, yeah.

So, totally insinuating.

And then finally I was just like, what are you asking?

They said he looked gay.

And I'm like, oh.

I was like, how do you tell, I was like, who said this?

And I was like, oh.

And so apparently we lived in a predominantly Mormon community

to where they were watching the house and I was home.

So they saw, uh, my now partner walk into the house and they're like, Oh

yeah, some gay guy was going to into the house and they stayed all weekend.

So then I was like, you know what?

You caught me.

Yes.

So I told him, luckily my brother lived nearby, like within 20 minutes, and

we weren't really talking, but I was like, I called him up and I'm like, hey,

I gotta move and I gotta move today.

I'm getting kicked out of the house.

And he's just like, okay, no questions asked.

Pulled up.

And like I'm five, nine and a half and 210 pounds.

And, um, my brothers are like, I'm the shortest of my family.

So they're 6'1 6'2 6'3.

And, uh, so he comes over, he's just maintaining the peace, just helping

me move out of my little room.

And, uh, and he asked, he's like, what happened?

So I told him and I'm like, yeah, I was like, I'm all distraught at the

moment, because everything's a big deal back then when you're young.

And I was like, yeah, I was like, he said this and I'm like, Well,

you know I don't like girls right?

And he's just like yeah, I've known since you're a kid and I'm like Well,

you could have freaking told me.

I'm like, you would have saved me some time.

And he's just like nah, he's like It's for you to figure out and

he just was just super accepting.

He's like, he's a former police officer, so he's very matter of fact, and

like emotions are run off his sleeve.

So he told me that it was okay.

I could stay with him for a little bit until I got on my feet.

And yeah, so I just picked up from them.

Because when I was up here, I tried to juggle between the lines of between

Mormonism and the lifestyle, right?

And it wasn't until then that I figured out, like, hey, why

not just, go full throttle?

And after that it spread out, my friends stopped talking to me.

They started talking about me.

About you.

So I just got sad and everything.

Every negative news was bad news.

Until I finally cut them off.

And then once I cut them off and I said, Hey, you know what?

You guys can talk your shit.

I'll be over here living my best life.

And I did, I joined, uh, the sports group, did all this stuff and I just,

cut everybody off in the church from like Facebook, I unfriended people.

Back then.

It was Myspace, like that's how old I am.

You know I used

Top eight.

Yeah.

Yes.

I don't remember my names, but yeah I totally had the same thing.

Yeah, so I deleted everybody and I was just like

okay in my mind if they add me then they want to be my friend.

Yeah.

So I waited and nobody really added me

Yeah.

Did you bump into anybody at some point?

Like, Did you run into anybody from your former life while you were

going through this life transition?

In the mall one time,

Mm

But that was easy to avoid just because I went to the other side.

I was

Hmm.

Okay.

So they didn't, you didn't have like a face to face interaction with them.

I just chose not to, just because I was like, what, what I'm going

to say probably won't be as articulate as, because I didn't have the words still.

I didn't have the words like to figure out who I was, like, I really don't

know what I'm doing, but I know that this is okay, and this is who I am.

And they kept saying like, well, you know, one of the things that, uh, my

old roommate said was that I was lying, that I lied to him about who I was.

And I told him, I'm like, well, yeah, I was like, but this is me now.

Like I, I'm finally not lying to you anymore of who I am or who I like.

That's the only thing I've lied to you about.

Everything else has just been me.

And he's like, you've seen me shower.

And I'm, I looked and I'm like, dude, you've seen me shower.

Yeah.

So what does that mean?

What does that

Yeah.

Right.

We were five guys living in a, in this house with one bathroom, so there'll be

somebody on the john, somebody brushing their teeth and somebody in the shower.

Like, that's just, that was just the normal rotation.

Cuz boys are disgusting, by the way.

And that's what I said.

I have two.

And I was like, look, I don't see you guys as that.

I was like, I see you guys as my brothers.

I don't have those kinds of feelings for you guys.

Like, you guys look at it as like, Theron's like this, he's seen me naked.

And it's like, everything is just skewed to where it turned dirty.

And I'm like, Whoa, those are, those were funny times.

Those weren't serious.

And that's hard to translate or to say to straights because according

to them, we are just perverts.

And all we want to do is talk to them and like get them in bed.

And I'm like, no, we can have friendships.

Like, you're my friend.

You were my brother.

yeah,

Until you chose not to

be.

Yeah.

It's unfortunate but also not surprising that they chose to

weaponize something that's, like, they immediately sexualized something.

Like, why do you have to take it to that point?

You know, like if you want to look at it from a secular point of view of like men

in a locker room, you shower together.

Right.

You know?

Chances are.

That's just so interesting and unfortunate.

I wonder what the conversation would have been like, that person at the

mall, if you had like spoken to them.

It's just, I'm just going based upon my own experience with people that I've

run into, like, I had to go to sacrament meeting a couple of months ago, my

young, you know, my ex is still in.

And so my 10 year old did the primary program, which is like, for listeners,

a, once a year, it's like the summary of all the things that they learn in junior

Sunday school, all the songs, you know, they have little speeches that they give.

And so my 10 year old was, was in it and he asked me to be there.

So I went.

And there are people that live in the neighborhood that I live

in that I could run into at any point, they know where I live.

And one lady came up to me, she's like, Oh, I haven't seen you forever.

You know?

Are you still living where you're living?

I'm like, yeah, I am.

I was like, it's like, oh, that's, that's awesome.

You know, let's get together.

So I'm just like very superficial and you know, I can play the game too.

I'm not, I'm not a dummy.

You know, I'm, because it could, it could go both ways.

Right.

If I wanted to see, these people, but it just, it feels, again, you leave

this community, this group of people that are so initially welcoming, but

then, you know, there's just like the undertone of an ulterior motive.

Like they only want you if you're here or they only want

you if they can convert you.

And I'm not saying that goes for all members of the Church of Jesus Christ

of Latter day Saints, there are some really decent people in the church.

I have, loved ones who are still in, and I, they're the

greatest humans I've ever known.

But it's just, it's difficult.

Because you being a social person, you want to be able to have connections

and have people in your life.

You want to have a community, and then you're immediately ostracized.

So I can imagine why you did not intentionally, you know, kind of, thank

goodness malls are big, you're able to avoid them, but, you know, being in a

situation where you can't avoid them, it's just the conversations are very,

very superficial and, but, you know, I can be super superficial and petty

too, you know, I can play that game.

And unfortunately that's what it comes to is

like, I hate to say fake.

But I mean, it's just like casual like, oh my god.

Yeah, let's let's get together.

Get together.

Yeah.

And we never see each other again

Yeah.

Until we see each other.

Not that those interactions are ideal.

I don't care for those anymore.

Like, I would rather just be straightforward and intentional

and like not saying things that I don't actually mean.

Like I wish.

You know, it's nice to see you today, hope everything is well.

I don't need the, oh, let's get together or I don't, I don't need that.

You know,

Yeah.

And worst case scenario, the missionaries are there and it's like,

Yeah.

Yeah.

And It's like, no, actually I'll pass, but thank you.

Yeah.

so moving on, you've moved to Phoenix at this point, you've built a new community.

You met your current partner there in Phoenix.

You're, you're building this new life.

We talked about this outside of the podcast, but you did

mention, um, your advocacy work.

I'm going to call it that because that's what it is to me with, um, ALL.

Do you want to me what ALL is?

A beautiful organization.

So one thing that I wish I had when I first came out here because pivotal

moments for people, once they move away from the hive, and, uh, move to cities

that they're unfamiliar with just to start a new life and start over, is that you

have to decide if you're going to live the lifestyle or unfortunately, or if

you're going to off yourself, pretty much.

Like, why am I going to go to hell?

Is it because I'm going to be live a gay lifestyle?

Live as a gay person and accept who I am, or am I going to go there in the

fast route and just send myself there?

Um, so all Arizona, it's like Arizona, LGBTQ, LDS.

What we do is we just meet up.

It's like family home evening and is a way to get people in contact.

Because there is an organization in here in Phoenix, which is 1 in 10.

So it's a youth organization that helps youth, you know, homeless

youth and everything on that on the streets, because 1 in 10 kids is

gay, statistically of what they say.

But, um, ALL is just amazing.

There's, there's no bad thing I can say about them, but they help youth because,

like, people we have from Utah that come down, they don't have any resources.

They don't have family.

They don't have friends.

And so they turn to drugs, alcohol, because now they've just

pretty much given up on life.

We have kids who come down from Salt Lake that just turn into prostitution

because now it's just they don't have the means to make ends meet and

they're shunned from people back home.

And this isn't for everybody.

It's not everybody comes down and now they're hookers or drug addicts.

It's just a communal place that says, Hey, it's safe.

So we have parents, who are still active in the church, but they have, one set

of parents have, um, two gay sons.

who are both returned missionaries, and they're both temple worthy.

The parents are temple worthy.

Uh, they just don't believe that their sons are evil, quote unquote.

So they're, they're out there fighting the good fight.

They put themselves in the awkward situations to where

they can speak about it.

Uh, we have other parents who have, uh, you know, a single child who is

gay and they're the mama dragons.

They, they legit have a Facebook group called the mama dragons

and they've started that and they advocate and they say, Hey, don't

you dare talk crap about my kids.

Don't you dare film and make my child feel uncomfortable.

And it's amazing.

The amount of resources that they have is amazing.

And to be involved in a group of that, we actually do have conferences

where people come down and speak on certain issues, uh, revolving around

juggling LDS and LGBTQ lifestyles,

Yeah.

Yeah.

just to expand that knowledge.

Are those conversations different than the typical, like,

the normal, like, suppress, are

Yes,

I'm assuming that it's more welcoming, like, come as you are.

Yeah, yeah, they legit come as you are.

The phrase, I'll walk with you is legit what they mean.

They're like, if you don't have a mom to stand with you at your

wedding day, I'll be your mom.

That's

just amazing.

Like they, we, they, we showed up to Pride one week, one year, and

it was like free hugs, like, like, Hey, I'm a father of gay child.

I'm your father.

Give me a hug.

They are the advocates.

Um, so the group, I mean, so there are members like me, uh, we just come

as normal ex mos and, uh, ex mormons.

And, um, that's essentially our coming out is if we're active or not.

It's like, I'm, I'm X, you don't pressure me to come back to, to church.

If I want to, I know I can go with them and just say, Hey, I'm going

to go with you to sacrament meeting.

Is that okay?

Obviously we know the scriptures.

We know enough to where we can just.

walk into sacrament meeting and be like, oh, I'm visiting and that'll be that.

It's not an advocacy group.

Um, it's a support group.

It's like family home evening.

It's a safe space.

If you have issues, you can bring it up.

They have resources.

They have, they can point you in the right direction, whatever you need.

But it's pretty amazing.

ALL.

com, just look it up.

It's.

There's a Facebook group, granted it is private because we do have

people who aren't completely out yet.

Yeah,

Yeah, so we protect everybody in there, in

the groups, and just show what people post that may be public.

And it's like pretty much like, on this if you're okay with it being seen.

So, but we give that disclaimer.

Yeah.

There's a lot of agency in that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I do feel like there's a little bit of, I mean, tell me if I'm

wrong, but there's some advocacy, just like advocating for Inclusivity and love.

Right.

Yeah.

That's beautiful.

I, I'm glad that you're, you're a part of that and giving the space

as you were telling about, you know, youth that identify as LGBTQ+ that the

spectrum and, being a member of the LDS church, there's a conflict within that.

And in having a group.

I'm thinking about the lost boys that come from the FLDS, which

is like the fundamentalist LDS.

Cause there's been a lot of documentaries put out about that group and the boys

that are kicked out because they're competition for the older men and

how there's not supports in place.

And I'm grateful that there are organizations like ALL that, you know,

have supports in place for these, these teens and these young people that are left

without a community, a home, a family.

Being a mother myself, I can't imagine hating my child in that way.

You know, just saying that you are not good enough because I believe

a higher power is telling me that what you're doing is wrong.

You know, like if we want to go back to the belief in, with the Apache people

that you are from your mother, you're the tribe of your mother and being so close

in that way and being a mother and saying.

No, thank you.

You know, I can't, I can't love you like that.

The mother wound in general, and regardless of who you are, is a

difficult wound to heal, but to then like ostracize your child because of

a belief system is, is devastating.

A taught system that,

Yeah.

is

Yeah.is skewed

Is.

It's skewed and, you know, we're taught in Mormonism that, you know families

are forever and yet, you know, we keep people out of coming into the

temple to see people get married.

You know I think about my kids my oldest if he ever decides to get, my

parents weren't there when I was sealed to my ex husband and, I have like I

said I have friends that are in and you know, dear friend of mine whose,

whose daughter is out and, but just the love that she has, you know, she's,

she can never abandon her child and

Yeah.

I can't imagine.

I mean, I mean, being the child thereof.

Yes, it's tough.

But I mean, I can't imagine being the mother is like

you gave life to this child.

Yeah,

And I mean, luckily enough, it's like, I sit and talk to my mom now,

like, I make my confessions to my mother.

Now we have a beautiful relationship.

Like, she's my walking diary.

And, you know, she even apologized and she's like, said she's sorry

for the dark ages, for when we weren't on top on speaking terms.

It's just for that status within religion and she didn't understand

the, um, the steps I took, you know, to kind of rectify everything.

So, once I explained everything, she looked at me and she's like,

you know, she'd ask, I wish you told me and I'm like, how?

I couldn't.

And it was that aha moment of like, yeah, transparency is key

because I did have that outlet, but I didn't know how to say it.

In a way like being a male, like you don't want to disappoint your

family, your family, You don't want to make people feel sorry for you.

Even in the least, like, luckily enough, like I was good enough in sports.

I was smart.

I was social.

I, um, was student body vice president in high school.

I was FFA president.

I did all these extracurricular things just because I was overcompensating.

You know, like I had girlfriends.

It's like I was almost a dad at 16.

It was,

Wow,

it was just everything just to fix it.

And, and I did everything but have an honest conversation.

Yeah But we're not taught that.

you know?

I think, I wonder if it's just like, I love my parents, but I wonder if it's just

that our generation of parents is just, they weren't taught to have conversations.

A lot of families weren't.

I know that mine, like we still don't have conversations about tough things.

Um, and so it wasn't something that we talked openly about.

You know, my parents also divorced when I was 13.

And so just, you know, there weren't things that we, I was able to talk

openly about or, you know, come to my parents from a space of curiosity

because everything just felt fearful.

And I don't know if it was just because of the Mormon upbringing

or even a religious upbringing in general, if you were raised religious,

like being fearful of being honest.

Cause if it wasn't falling in line of, you know, the belief system, you

know, and your parents who are there to teach you, it's kind of like, you

know, you don't want to disappoint them.

You don't want to offend them.

Right, which is, now, if I could go back in time and just

be like, Theron, shut up, have a conversation with your mom, it'll be fine.

If I could go back and say that to my younger self, it would be pretty amazing.

If I knew there was a hotline to sit and get the dialogue that

I needed, or the words that I needed, the verbage, the verbage,

The

and, the verbage.

And just to be, you know, cognizant about, like, my choices, and

they are just choices, and it is

Yeah.

temporary.

Like, Yeah, you know, because Unfortunately, we're not taught to sit

and actually ponder on the fact that like, you know, coming out, you have to give

it time for people to come in, you know?

Like you tell them your biggest secret that's been causing you

stress like for all these years and now you dump it on your family and

now they have to deal with this.

Okay, cool.

But you have to give them time.

You have to give them grace.

The same that you want, you've got to give it.

And like, now I have such an amazing life.

Like my, my brothers, even like who are married, have kids and all that.

And they look at me and they're like, you've got a charmed life, man.

And I'm like, yeah, no kids.

Ha ha.

Like I joke about it, but I really do, you know, I've got a great career.

I've got a great partner.

I've been a legal guardian to my niece.

So my brother trusts me with his kids.

Like I'm raising one of his kids so she can go to high school and play ball.

You know, that's my happy ending.

Like I've, I'm out of the church.

I no longer affiliate with religion and I'm happy.

I still have that dialogue with Heavenly Father, you know, like.

Even though I don't affiliate with the church, like, I know that I'm

not doing anything wrong that is detrimental enough to send me to hell.

I've got a sassy attitude, but that's about it.

That's amazing.

That's just a testament to living an authentic life.

Living authentically doesn't mean, you know, we're taught in

the church, you know, if you leave the church, where will you go?

There's, you follow anything on ex Mormon.

It's like, if you leave the church, where will you go?

What will you do?

And, but look, look at Theron Olivar.

He's, living a beautiful life.

Sometimes it's even much more beautiful than we could

have ever imagined, you know?

It's not like life is perfect and without struggle or hardship but the

fact that we can live authentically and say this is who I am and come

to the table and there's definitely something to be said about that.

It's a normal life.

I go to work every day.

I'm raising a child.

Yeah.

Got a great career.

It's a great, great car.

Like, I mean,

Yeah.

tell me I'm doing something wrong.

No, you're not

That's my normal.

Yeah, I love that.

Before we wrap up I did see on Facebook a little thing that you had posted

about you moving back or that you are running for Council for Tribal Council.

Will you talk a little bit about that?

That's very fascinating to me.

Well, yeah.

So, I mean, growing up, you're always taught, um.

You know, you have to get off the reservation to gain an

education, gain experience, and then eventually come back to help,

you know, your people, your tribe.

Right.

Yeah.

so my dad was in politics for the majority of my childhood.

So I grew up in it.

So I saw him like as a leader.

And, um, I've been working in grants and we developed this, um, a few programs

that assist other tribes here that are more metropolitan, like within Maricopa

County, which is like the big city, right?

So urban tribes.

So while I develop these programs, it's always been like, okay, I'm going to get

it to where it's streamlined and then I can take it back to help my tribe and

get this program started because why not?

Like, why not go home and help your people?

And so, you know, like, back when I left, yes, I was shunned, but now it's,

mm

I don't want to say mainstreamed, but it's to the point where

it's like, everybody's like, okay, cool.

That doesn't affect me.

So not that I feel safe or that I ever felt unsafe going home.

Like I would go home for tournaments and, uh, see people

and say hi and all this stuff.

But I think I just got to the age to where I'm like, okay, like I've lived my life.

I've had my quote unquote selfish time away.

And it's time to go home.

It's time to go back.

Uh, I will be running for tribal council, which is like, I hate to compare it

to like, I mean, on the topic, Christ and his apostles, but there, I believe

there are 12 council members for all the districts within the reservation.

So I would be one of them and I would speak for the people,

I would fight for the people.

Um, I would get in touch with the resources.

Like, I, I'm an accountant for grants and contracts.

Right?

So, who knows, like, if I get the green light to go after a grant or

contract and review contracts and everything, um, I work in compliance

now, but I was like, I can still do it.

Yeah, it'll benefit your people.

I was like.

And I have all this stuff that I'm helping other people.

So I'm like, well, why not just take it home?

And I finally got to that point.

It's like, okay, it's time to help.

That's beautiful.

And as cliche as it is, I think it's, it's time.

Like I am, I'm older, uh, I'm experienced, uh, I'm.

social.

So it's like, and I'm approachable.

That's, that's the beauty of all this stuff is like, people can come right up

to me and be like, Hey, Theron, and it's an, it's a first name basis back home.

And it's a smaller community.

It's a tight knit community.

And I love it.

It's honestly, I love, I just love being home.

There's nothing like being home.

Uh, granted, I made a home up here, but it's

Yeah.

home away from home.

Yeah.

So that's, that's where that comes from.

So we'll see.

That's where your heart has always been.

You, you know, I think about you leaving to find, find who you are.

And as heartbreaking as a lot of that was, you know, leaving your family.

the, they disowning you in a way because you joined the Mormon

church, you missing huge things that happened within your family.

You've reconnected with them, obviously, but, um, just the things that you

gained, even though they were tough.

And now you're, like you said, you're able to go back, give back to the

people, reconnect to your heart and soul.

I think that's,

It just took a little, you know, I don't think we ever, we ever

know, um, we're going to end up.

But, it's always, it's always surprising where we do end up where we are like, oh,

I didn't see this for myself when I was 18 years old and I left the church and

things around me or I you know left the Mormon Church after joining and felt like

everything was scary and falling apart and you've built this beautiful life.

And.

Yeah, And it, it's, it, the hard thing is like speaking

to a friend, um, about that.

Like I almost got married and I was talking to him and I'm like,

you know, I almost got married.

I almost had kids, you know, that's not fair for them if I would have still had

another secret life or anything like that.

And he actually thanked me and it was like, thanks for not doing that

to somebody else because trust me.

It hurts.

And I, I was like, you know what?

Okay.

Like, I not necessarily isolated myself, but it's like, okay, I took

the bullet and I'm not a martyr.

I'm not anything like that.

It's just that was the path that agreed with me and that

was the path that I chose.

Yeah

Why not?

Why would I bring somebody else into my mess?

Yeah.

And a lot of people don't recognize that, unfortunately, and it,

And it's hard to explain because there there's no conversation.

It's not a conversation starter because it's so sad, you know, on both ends.

Yeah.

And I think, especially within Mormonism, you're taught since

you're little to just put off.

You know, you're a convert, but I'm sure you heard these exact same messages of,

we can go back to fasting, that you, put off all physical desires, right?

Like the bad ones, you know, you put that aside to be able to serve God.

You need to overcome your physical struggles and trials in order to

become more like Jesus, right.

Christ like, yes,

Yes, to become, to become as Christ, because

ultimately that's our goal.

We go to the temple, we make these covenants.

Ultimately we go and we We become like Heavenly Father

and we create our own planets.

It's a whole other conversation, but, I wish that, and I don't, I don't

foresee the church ever doing this.

I think sadly, I don't think it'll ever change, but just teaching people

truly, that they do have agency and that through agency and through the atonement

of Jesus Christ, that any mistakes we make or any struggles that we do have.

If we are responsible for ourselves and we don't hurt anybody else.

I wish they advocated for that.

Instead of like, you need to sacrifice for yourself, you need to put off

whatever you're desiring, push it to the side, marry, you know, marry a man.

If you're a woman, you identify and you think that you're gay or vice versa.

You're a man, you marry a woman and then 14 years later you realize,

oh, I'm actually really attracted to

Right, right.

And,

You know, and just the devastation it causes.

And instead, the church could be teaching honesty.

They believe in honesty.

I think to the core of what they want to believe but I don't

know if they actually teach.

Because they do ask you in the temple recommend an interview Are

you, honest with your fellow men?

but do they actually know what honesty means?

Because I think even being honest, regardless of religion, people

say they want an honest, they want honesty in a relationship.

My therapist and I have talked about this.

People want honesty in a relationship, but they don't,

they're scared of the truth, right?

They're scared of the honest truths that are going to come out of someone's mouth.

We want someone who's honest, but we're, we're actually terrified of what's

going to come out of someone's mouth and we don't know how to handle it.

We have to build up and we have to learn how to be resilient

and be able to accept that.

But I don't, I don't think the church necessarily teaches honesty

in the way that it promotes truth.

That's the word right there.

I mean, if they just taught acceptance and, you know, I don't

want to say tolerance because it's not something to tolerate.

Yeah.

we don't need to tolerate.

Yeah.

You don't, you shouldn't tolerate.

Just accept it.

Like it is the way it is and people are the way they are.

Like if I could choose, like it, my biggest fear is the lifestyle

going to my niece or nephew.

It's hard, you know?

And that's the thing is like, I live a beautiful life, but

it took me a lot to get here.

Yeah.

I would not wish that that on anyone.

It's great once you're here to this point where you have that realization

of like, I'm safe, I'm fine.

But until you get there, it's awful.

Yeah.

I, I, I appreciate that you're doing work with ALL, because you have a lot to offer.

You've been, you've been through what these kids have been through

Yeah.

The loneliness, The depression, the, the thoughts of like,

it's better that I'm not here.

And I wish that there was something like that back in the day where

somebody said, Hey, reach out, reach, do you need resources?

Come to us.

You need a, like a father figure to give you a hug.

Come to us.

You need a friend.

Come to us.

You want to go to a game, but you don't want to go by yourself.

Come to us.

Like we will accept you open arms and be happy about it.

What makes me happy is just knowing that there are resources now and acceptance

is being taught and being fought for.

And in our own little way of like maintaining what is out there right

now and who's brave enough to come out to with their true selves.

Like, my hope is that one day we don't have a group.

That one day we just.

It's just fine, you know?

And so, until that day happens, come to ALL.

Yeah.

It's a great program.

Find a local chapter somewhere.

Yeah,

Call me.

Theron, you are just,

I'm a sissy lala, is what I am.

I mean, that's what I need to knock off.

No, I I appreciate it.

I, I can cry at it, at anything.

And your, your story is just so touching and you are just the epitome

of resilience and strength and I just see it all over your face.

And I'm so thrilled to see this next chapter of your life and

Same.

to get to know you more.

Cause you're just a phenomenal human being.

And I I adore you.

I adore you.

this was an amazing episode.

Like I said, I, I want to have you back.

We'll do an episode, probably in Coloring Outside the Lines, and we'll

talk about your experience in the temple because, you know, we went

through right around the same time.

I went through in 2002, and so they were still doing, you know, the

initiatory the first part of the endowment process with the being,

I heard they stopped.

they changed it.

Yeah, but you know because that it's it's us.

Let's be honest.

Yeah, we'll definitely have a very interesting conversation.

I can't wait for that one.

But I appreciate you so much for taking the time out to talk to me about all

the things and that you've just lived a fascinating and beautiful life and it's

It's still going and you're just you know,

It's beautiful.

and you're, you're here and I am just so happy to know you, and

thank you again for taking the time.

Ah, thank you for having me.

I love you.

And I can't wait to meet you in person.

I love you too.

I know in person I'll have to come and I wanna, I wanna experience Native

culture and ceremonies, and I've been I've been fascinated with it forever, so.

You'll love the food.

I promise.

Um, I'm sure I will.

All right.

Hugs to you.

And uh, and tell Tucker hi.

I will.

Thank you so much.

Thank you so much for listening today and allowing us to be a part of your day.

If you'd like more information on leaving in color or to be a guest on

our show, please reach out to us on Instagram at leavingincolor.pod or

email us at leavingincolorpod@gmail.com.

If this episode resonated with you in any way or made you think of a loved one

or a friend, please tell them about it.

Your support generates more abundance collectively, so please

subscribe to Leaving in Color wherever you listen to podcasts.

Like all beautifully crafted pieces, this podcast was created

by the most talented humans.

Our music is by the melodic master, Tucker Winters.

Our lovely, beautiful art is by the multifaceted Jen of

all trades, Jen Cagle Gilmore.

Leaving in Color is masterfully produced in conjunction

with Particulate Media, K.O.

Myers, executive producer.

And I am Christina Elmer.

See you soon.