The episode explores the complex topic of cancel culture and how people's backgrounds, experiences, and perceptions shape their views. While considering both the benefits and drawbacks of cancel culture, the discussion examines the balance between accountability, community or generational values, and personal identity. The hosts also discuss its potential impact on creativity and self-expression, offering a thoughtful look at its role in today's society.

Website: Social Science and Humanities Department at LCC

Welcome to the Sociological POV. This podcast emerged from some fascinating discussions in an introductory sociology course at Lansing Community College, where we attempt to gain insight into other people's perspectives, the good, the bad, and the world around us. We hope to mirror that concept with this podcast as we welcome a range of voices from diverse backgrounds to share their thoughts on a current event or topic that matters. So with that said, let's get into it and start gaining perspective.

All right, we are back with the Sociological pov. We've got students, people from the community here to talk about cancel Culture today.

My name is Eliza Robinson. I'm a teacher here at lcc Sociology and anthropology. And today we've got

Kaden Rice.

I am a major in digital media here at lcc.

And I am Erick Diaz. I'm a former LCC student. I did journalism here.

Awesome. Thank you guys for being here.

No problem.

So we're going to talk about cancel Culture today. I haven't seen it in the news as much lately, but I think it still exists and it's worth a conversation.

So the first thing I wanted to ask is, is how would somebody's culture or their social background play a part in how they think about cancel culture? How might that influence them to think about cancel culture differently? Or you can talk to your own definition and ideas of cancel culture.

What do you think it's based on? It's a basis by basis case based on the person and based on where they're from.

But depending on the person's values and they get their values off, their upbringing is going to depend on how much they care about the situation in the first place.

So if your values are inward and you're not really concerned about the external world and things going around like on around you, then I can see you not caring so much or having much of an opinion.

But if you also value a different type of attention from another type of world, where you think that attention is something that you need in order to garner like a sense of self worth, then you might be more in tuned to the cancel culture and to the community because you feel maybe that being in tune with that can maybe give you also a sense of self worth. But somebody on that same coin doesn't feel that at all. So it's really based truly on what you value.

But like I said, you get that off of your upbringing and where you come from. If I said that in the best.

Way I possibly could, it's got me thinking. It's got me thinking because I almost want to say age would vary A lot by that because it's connected with social.

I also believe Gen Z and below really don't care also about a lot of things. I think Gen Z don't. Doesn't care a lot about voting. I think they don't care a lot about cancel culture too much.

As much as somebody that's really deep into it.

Okay. What do you think, Erick?

I think it's part of the. You know, when I think a console culture, I think about this. Let's say I want to say in Spanish chisme, which is tea or gossiping.

Okay.

So it's a way to know. Let's say about bad things.

Right.

It's a scoop in quotations. Bad things about somebody that way, you know people in your community. Right.

But I think it just what evolved or had different types mutations in different societies. It might change in the classroom. It might change in American neighborhood or. Or in a neighborhood somewhere else.

Okay.

But I think it is necessary for everyone.

Oh, it's important. It's a way to connect.

It's a way to connect to know like people around you.

Okay.

Agree with your same opinion that you have on this person. A sense of community.

Yep. The solidarity people have together relies on kind of checking each other. Okay.

I mean lately with. Let's say what. I'm not gonna say woke culture, but I will say what liberal ideas, progressive ideas. It turns.

It turned out more into like a witch hunter.

Yeah, more like that. The extreme definitely is. Yep. For sure. I think, I think there's on both.

Sides, but I think it's basically the same dynamic. Right.

Yeah.

Just. Yeah. Telling you what person did and if that person did something wrong that goes against your. The what the values.

Very group outlining. Yes, outlining the definition of the group.

Asking people if they don't have the same opinion issue.

Yep. Yep. Okay, so tell me, what are the pros and cons you think exist for having cancel culture right now? Would be a pro.

Yeah. I believe a pro is the power to give certain people.

Like it gives a little bit of power back to the people that aren't at in the same position because they get like a say so in like that other person's position in their power. So if they do something wrong in their head, they can voice it and gather up a crowd with them so they can like defamate someone's career.

So it gives them like a sense of power. So I believe that is a pro. And also the community. Somebody who has. Doesn't really have much of like connection.

You can get it through the community of knowing you share the same opinion.

Right. Yep.

So I'll say those are two pros.

Okay. You're a pro. To add to that. Erick, do you agree or.

I think pro is more like being connected.

Okay.

With people, not just community, but being, you know, a group with same ideas. A classroom group or, you know, high school, college or neighborhood or different ages to.

Yeah.

It's a way to stay connected and know each other. I mean, the cons will be that it goes under a perspective.

Okay.

It's a gossip. Is.

Yeah.

Like it will be told by somebody who's. Who follows. A perspective is biased.

Right? Yeah. Yeah. Oftentimes doesn't have evidence and proof behind it.

Yeah. There isn't like an investigation of something.

A lot of false cancels have occurred over the years I don't agree with.

Right. Like I think of the Wild west stories of people like the mobs going after someone.

Yeah. No.

Where there's no checking point for. Yeah. Which is. Is that human nature. I mean, connecting that.

I guess it always happened. Right. They just, as I told you, just, I guess evolve and have different mutations in different societies through time.

So maybe it's not as common in some societies.

Different societies.

That would be a great study. Yeah. Okay. And I know Kaden wanted to touch on this. Which one weighs out? Which one do you think is more.

I believe the cons because not only do I feel that people walk on eggshell, people in high status have to walk on eggshells because they basically can't do anything that's deemed bad in the social eye. But like, as we were just mentioned, the social.

I falsely accuses people of or falsely deems people that people do bad, but it's really not bad in the grand scheme of things. So I feel like it just creates this negative culture of judgment and it is limits what could happen. And I just don't believe. I believe this is not.

I don't know. I believe it does not weigh out the pros for sure.

It's too harsh. Yeah.

I definitely believe it's way too hard.

Okay. Okay. Thoughts on that?

I think sometimes it might be valid because there are some attitudes or behaviors that as a society we do not punished. We just saw them as, oh, it's just bad. But let's say like her husband in high school, like. Like bullying or they. They don't always go.

Like they don't punish because we don't have laws for it. Or they don't punish because they're.

I'm trying to think Something like that. Like, yeah, some. Some behaviors that we think, oh, just bad, but they are not punished by law.

Yes.

Like, I have a good example. Like, yeah, maybe like Elon Musk, for example.

Like, he's, like, really, really, really wealthy to the point where, like, he can't give his money in a lifetime. And some people basically believe that him not giving back to, like, any nonprofit is immorally bad.

And if you don't agree with that, people see that you're a bad person.

Yeah. So they're checking his behavior outside of a legal system design.

That's a moral system.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It is very interesting.

It is to have. And it's almost like we've got at least what we're familiar with in this country is these competing morals sets.

Which set of morals is more right and wrong? And maybe we can't assess whether there is an ultimately a right or wrong, but, like, which one is more powerful? Which one is going to win out?

Because it does seem like the values that come with Elon Musk, you could compare and contrast that with the values of the party, the group going against him. And it does seem like they're competing politically, but also culturally, socially, we're looking at whether those things are good or bad.

And it does seem like it is very healthy for our society to go over those things.

Right.

But it does. Does it make people more afraid to state their ideas like the average person?

For sure. Because not only is the average person not fully formed in their idea, they're also scared to make the wrong choice because of scrutiny from others.

That's a great point. Yeah. What do you think?

Yeah. It's a way to align with group values.

Right.

So it limits people thinking outside of the box. Okay. That is a. That is a concern. It is.

I mean, we're social animals, so I guess we somehow we move in groups. Even though, like, you know, United States goes more individually, we have this cancel culture from either side.

Not just the progress you live, but also the other extreme. They also use cancel culture among their people. But. But it's a way to pack. Right. The group.

Yeah.

Like, do not go outside of us. It is a way of community.

Very functional. You're sounding very functional. Yeah. Yeah.

While in other places, let's say the gossiping works the same way. Right. Like, we just gossip about what a neighbor did, and the neighbor didn't tell anybody, but everyone knows around him.

Something uses a very weak example, but something like that.

Yeah. Why do you guys think it's.

It's so strong in our culture right now, this pointing the finger and working as a group to pull somebody out of a position of power. Why. Why is that so strong right now?

Maybe the political polarization we are living. Going through.

Okay.

I don't know, maybe the United States was not that polarized, but I guess other places they have been through the same thing.

Okay.

Like every country that has had, like, political coups or they. That were etched in the Civil War or something. Yeah, I think they went through the same.

Especially during the 80s or 90s in the Latin American countries.

Okay. So a lot of, like pulling people down without legal.

Yeah.

You know, systems backing up.

So they were just snitching somebody who didn't align with the political views of their ruling power or something like that. I mean, it happened in my country in the 80s. It happened in Chile in the 70s.

Okay.

But I think United States is something new.

Well, just to be this strong, I think I would say when I was growing up, everything was just kind of like, it's accepted. If you're in a position of power, that's just okay. Like, everything you do is okay.

There was a lot less vocalization of criticism and, you know, for the good and the bad of it, I think. What do you think, Kaden? Can we separate artists work from personal lives? What do you think about that?

From the personal lives of the people that we're canceling? Maybe. Maybe artists or politicians or some of. I'm trying to think of some of the types of people that we're canceling now. Leaders.

Can we separate personal decisions from the things that they do as a leader or as an artist?

Again, this is very case by case. It varies on the person in the situation. I personally can separate many arts from the artist.

Like, there's many cases where I've seen a movie or I've listened to a song, or the person may have the crime or did something illegal, but I can't take away the fact that it's art. So in my head, I can't. I can't logicalize. I don't know that's a word, but I can't logicalize. Not like demon it as art.

I can't take that away from the person.

Okay.

But I also can, on that same coin, can say that this person is bad and I don't support this person in his endeavors. But I also can be a fan of this one piece of art he makes.

Okay. Separate the art from the artist.

But I will say I do not blame anybody that can't.

Yeah, good point. Good Point to bring up. Yeah. What do you think, Gary?

I think it's also a case by case.

Okay.

I mean, for me it might depend. For example, have you heard about Pablo Neruda? He's a Chilean poet from what, 60s, 60s, 70s.

Okay.

And he. He focuses. He focused when he was alive. I mean, he's not alive anymore, but he was very romantic.

Like the extremely intense romantic poet, Something like that.

Okay.

And then like 10 years, five, 10 years ago, he was accused. There was some document showing that he raped a teenager in the 80s, something like that.

But now in that case, since his poems talk about sexuality, that makes it really romance.

Really, case by case.

Right. He's like, that's uncomfortable. That's no by. No.

So that makes the art bad or that makes the.

Yeah, when the. When the art's about.

Yeah, that's a very specific case.

When the art is about the what? The. The crime. Let's say the crime. When the artist. Crime.

When the art is associated with the crime. I can't do it. Like there's another.

Oh, the art is associated with the crime.

Yeah, there's like.

As in. Because his art was about women and romance. That there was too much. Too much connection. Interesting point. Okay.

That's nasty. There's another example of this movie called Jeep. I don't know if you know about Jeepers Creepers sounds familiar. It's a renowned horror movie, but.

But the director, he's a convicted sexual offender. He had. Did actual jail time.

Okay.

And in the movie, there is some. Some dicey scenes inside the movie, but it's a renowned horror movie.

Okay.

So as a fan, I still derive a little bit of enjoyment of the movie. But I also can't admit that it is tinkered knowing the fact that this person sure. Wasn't the person that would want to make this movie.

Okay, interesting. Is it any different for political leaders because they're in a way moral leaders as well, I would say also.

Yeah. It matters more if you're a political.

Leader than an artist.

Yeah. Because people are affecting people's lives. Unless they choose, let it affect it, but keep other people in position. We don't have a choice.

Right. You're making the laws that we all have to.

Yeah, they're public servants.

Yeah, those people too.

It's not like they are on the private something or they are literally public servants.

Yeah, it's a great point. So how could it. Or has it challenged social issues today? How is. Cancel culture?

What are some examples of challenging certain social issues that we have for example, I mean, I think treatment of women has been a big one. I mean, the MeToo movement was a big conversation people were having. Black Lives Matter movement.

I think those are probably the most visible ones we've seen. And I think now, obviously, politically, there's a lot going on with several different angles.

Looking at our administration of things that, you know, could be canceling people.

I think counseling somebody will depend on the power of that person.

Okay.

Because let's say it's very easy to cancel somebody from the lower status because they don't have power to defend themselves. But if you cancel somebody from the upper levels, it's like, yeah, lol or something like that. Right? It doesn't matter. It doesn't care.

Because people, they will just keep following their lives because they have the power to do that. It's like, let's say something that comes to my mind is when. During the.

I mean, still going on, but during the Palestinian genocide, like many Palestinian activists, they tried to boycott or they were canceling Zionists, shops, stores, businesses. And there were. Many of them were small business owners. There were others that were like big owners.

But I was wondering, like, if a small business owner will be able to defend or something, because people work that.

There too, would it make that much of a difference?

Like, how would that make a change? Just to make you morally superior than.

Others, You've got to bring down the bigger.

Like, is this. Is this necessary? Yeah, yeah, something like that. I was just thinking it was more. They were just looking for an ethical superiority or something.

Because that's part of identity too, right? Individuals identifying with a certain group. You know, we were just talking about that.

So when an individual does those actions, it might not be functional, like you're pointing out in actually fixing the larger problem, but it's more about this individual identifying with. Aligning with a group. What do you think, Kaden? Are there examples you could see of social change happening because of social.

Some of the cancel culture.

Yeah. I just think it makes the overall world just seem more phony and fake and artificial. Really.

In the entertainment industry, you just see, like, people not like, just pulling their punches and not giving you the same, like the same. Same level of creativity, the same level of raunchiness, the same level of things they used to do back in the day that they would never do now.

There's a lot of people, like, if you were to make a certain movie, they would say, like, you could never make that today because of the way the world is. But like that, that's just One example, but that's a. That can bleed into, like, a lot of different examples all over in different type of genres.

But yeah, I just overall think it just creates a. Just a less creative world. A less restrictive. A more restrictive world.

Okay. Yeah. You see some artists and politicians saying, I'm not gonna go along with it. I don't care if I'm canceled.

And then, then it's like, if you're in their camp, you can't be in the other camp.

Yeah.

So that's always going to be the minority camp, unfortunately, too, because the majority is always going to be what's we all deep down inside feel like is the right thing to do.

Okay.

But that's also difference between person to person.

So I had this other question about family. Can you. I was thinking about this in connection with how our culture has become very individualized.

And I see more and more people disconnecting from family. So I thought, I wonder if we're canceling family. Like, I'm not going to go to.

Thanksgiving this year because we call the friends giving now.

Right.

People don't do Thanksgiving well. They do it before Thanksgiving to call it friendsgiving.

Yeah. But I mean, we've moved pretty quickly in this direction of.

From one extreme of, you know, still being with our family and accepting them for who they are to, you know, somewhere in the middle, like, I'll still see you, I'll still spend time with you, but I don't really, you know, connect with what you're saying. And to the other of, like, I'm not even gonna have anything to do with my family. You know, there's.

There's this range right now we're seeing, but there's more and more of that other extreme of not connecting or not speaking to. Do you think that's. Yeah.

Also that felt the same thing.

To do what we talked earlier about Gen Z and how their whole mindset is they're like, really quickly to move on and, like, try to get on through life because they feel like life's coming at them really fast.

Okay.

And they don't want to miss life while they're young. So they try to, like, grow up really fast instead of spend time with their family.

So I feel like it's a little different than it was before because now it's a lot to compare themselves to. And since there's so much to compare to, it speeds up their perception of reality. So they try to grow up faster than they should, maybe.

Huh. Interesting. Yeah. There. It does seem like there is a lot of Pressure for the younger generations to grow up quickly.

Yeah. And it's scrutinized to spend time your family past a certain age or something.

Okay.

But that's what maybe could be a. Yeah, that's connected.

What do you think?

Yeah, I think it's. I think the same is generational.

I think it's generational because I. I feel like I'm between missing millennials and Gen z because I'm 27th, and my sister, she's a view a few more years older than me, and she feels that she has to visit our families, that we don't agree with opinions, but she feels she has to, like, we must go. We have to visit grandpa. We have to visit like once. Once per month or something. I'm like, the way.

Yeah, do you want to listen what they have to say or something? I mean, but it's still somehow I feel the pressure too, but I still also can't make decision of. No, you know what?

But when I met some other, like my cousins, Genti, they are like, what, 17 or 23? 20. 21. They are more. More direct. Like, no, I'm not going.

Yeah.

No regrets.

Yeah.

No hesitation. I'm not going. Bye.

Do you think that's the same thing as cancel culture.

In a very passive way?

Maybe.

Yeah, I think it's adjacent. It looks a little similar.

I think they. They don't cancel their families publicly. It's just. I know. So I'm not going, you know, something like that.

Yeah. In a way, they're creating a new group, though, like you were saying, friendsgiving. Like you're creating a new family sometimes.

I mean, there are people that do that. My chosen family is. Is this group instead of. So it's almost like solidifying a separate identity, you know, going along with individualism.

And then also, like, I have a new group and I mean, I think it aligns somewhat with how we're using cancel culture to outline groups and individuals. I think that's all. That's all I have to say about cancel culture. Any other thoughts that you wanted to throw out there? Questions?

Final replacement remarks?

Final remarks. What are your final remarks on. On this trend?

I would just like to say, personally, I'm not the most avid fan of cancel culture. I just, I think I.

It creates this space to where you have to just be very careful and cautious, and you always have to think your next two steps ahead. And I feel like the world would be a more open and fun place that wasn't in place.

Okay.

I think it's about perspectives okay. Either generational or society plays.

I mean, somebody being canceled here won't be canceled in another place or won't be canceled 10 years ago or will be canceled 100 years from now.

Right. I feel like this cultural relativism really comes in here. It would be useful.

Yeah.

You could understand people. Not that you excuse them. Right. For any wrongdoing. I don't think we should do that.

But understanding why somebody might be behaving the way they're behaving would help.

Cultural relativism coming back in real life.

Coming back. Yes. Well, thank you guys so much for joining us. Awesome conversation.

Thank you.

Thank you.

You've been listening to the Sociological POV. Thank you for your time. This podcast is featured as a part of LCC Connect, a podcast network developed by Lansing Community College. To listen to this episode on demand or explore other LCC Connect podcasts, visit lccconnect.com. We hope you'll join us again on the Sociological POV, as we explore the good, the bad, and the world around us.