This episode explores how society views aging and the stereotypes that shape those perceptions. Join Alisa, Isaiah, Jaffret, and Camille, as they examines cultural beliefs about older adults, including assumptions about wisdom, decline, competence, and social visibility. The discussion also highlights how media and culture influence these views, and how an empathetic understanding of aging is especially important.

Website: Social Science and Humanities Department at LCC

Welcome to the Sociological POV. This podcast emerged from some fascinating discussions in an introductory sociology course at Lansing Community College, where we attempt to gain insight into other people's perspectives, the good, the bad, and the world around us. We hope to mirror that concept with this podcast as we welcome a range of voices from diverse backgrounds to share their thoughts on a current event or topic that matters. So with that said, let's get into it and start gaining perspective.

All right, welcome. Today we have myself, Aliza.

Jaffret .

Isaiah.

Camille.

And thank you for being here with us, you guys. We're going to talk about aging today.

Just the whole process, not just the older part of it, but the whole process of as we go through life, being being looked at by other people as a different age as we go through our lives. So my first question for everybody is, what are the current beliefs and norms and stereotypes around aging in this culture?

I can think of a very common one that, like, as you get older, you get dumber. That can be from a multitude of factors, from, like, cognitive decline or eyesight decline. You know, you're assembly, you're more clumsy.

But, yeah, I think that a lot of the younger generation views old people. I know. I'm guilty of this, too. Like, oh, my gosh, that person's so old.

I don't like, you know, But I think that there's more to it than just that they're dumb or that they're, you know, they're. They're getting old.

But we do associate that. Yeah, for sure. And then there's. You're saying, like, there's dementia. That kind of is the scientific part of that.

Although that's not what everyone's experiencing, obviously.

Right?

Yeah. Yeah, that's a good stereotype. Any other thoughts?

I kind of had, like, almost opposite perspective. It definitely changes now as I grow older.

But something that definitely stuck with me from when I was a kid was old people having or having wisdom and, like, life advice.

I've always, like, taken the advice, especially my older relatives give me to heart, because they've probably already experienced what I'm talking about.

Yeah. Do you think that that applies to the average person? Do you think that's what we see in our culture as a whole, our national culture?

I feel like you'll get mixed responses because right now, probably a majority of people in our national culture feel that old people are more senile or however you say it just. But that could also be because our values for what we want to see within our politicians is probably influencing our perspective on older people.

Because right now a lot of people are saying politicians need to be younger and we're seeing them like have cognitive decline while in office. And that is probably shaping views on how we view old people just in day to day life as well.

Yeah, Good example. What do you think, Isaiah? What are some beliefs and norms?

I'd actually say that aside from people in positions of power, old people are kind of getting more, I'll say invisible.

Invisible? Yeah.

The average, say, elderly person, their thoughts, concerns, how they connect to their friends and family, all that is kind of just fading away as time go by. They kind of leave the societal spotlight.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Why do you think that is?

I don't actually know. It's. I think younger people just really aren't as concerned as about that kind of thing. I don't really think it's a thing that's observed.

Younger people are concerned about aging.

Yeah, they aren't really.

They're not thinking about it.

Yeah, they don't, they don't think about it in that way. Aging is a bit of a future decline to them. They don't really conceptualize it.

Okay. Do you think young people have a lot of interaction with elderly people? And why not?

I think it's mixed. I would say that younger people, they tend to have connection with elder people as sort of authority figures, not so much as people.

Yeah.

People that you're able to understand, interact with, know just more so authority figures that you're supposed to respect and categorically acknowledge.

Yeah, yeah, that's a great point. Do you guys have any other thoughts on that?

I think that we see older people go invisible because they're no longer the key marketing demographic for a lot of things. Like, I can feel myself, I'm only 20 years old and I feel myself getting like, aged out of things that used to be made for me.

Like, I look at like the new celebrities popping up and I'm like, who? I don't, I don't like this guy. But he. They will have so many, like, followers and then they'll see like new trends and I'm like, this kind of stupid.

But then the kids, they love it. And I'm like, wow. Well, I guess it's not made for me anymore.

Interesting. So I mean, that must mean that there's a huge market or available money source in people younger than 20, which is really shocking to me.

I think scary.

It's like with like social media now because I feel like when you say invisible, you're mostly talking about like what you see in the public Eye with social media, I feel like it's less about your dollar and more about your view. Like specifically talking about like the trends and public figures who I no longer relate to. They are looking for our money.

And of course that would be like parents money, like, oh, can I please have this for Christmas? But they're also like, they want word of mouth. They want to get as popular as possible. And that is going to be done within the younger generations.

Mostly because when you're in school, like it's even different from college.

When you're in school, everybody knows everything that's going on and they're always talking about it because I know I wasn't talking about class in high school, you know, I was talking about random celebrities. And that's kind of how it gets so popular. And why older people don't see themselves represented as much is because they're at work.

Do you think a good number of older people right now we're talking about that as +20, apparently look at the younger generation and want those things because you could say that they're constructing the dominant ideology of what the ideal is. Do you think that that's part of that pull towards the market?

I think that what is kind of forming the market now is the people that are profiting. They're the ones that are targeting a certain demographic and they might be older.

But I think the main idea with that is getting as much money as possible. Which is like the most popular thing for 20 year olds or like for 15 to 20 year olds?

You know, I think that is shaping it more than, I mean they probably are elderly. These CEOs are very, are very old. Some of them are pretty young.

But for the most part I think usually think of a CEO and like an older white man pops up to your head.

Although I see like a lot of trends for older people being like the clothing, right, like it's supposed to look like and it's almost copies of what the younger people are wearing, but just not as risque or not as like not as trendy.

You can't be, you know, like when you go to Target or something, there's like the young version, which is the coolest, and then there's the older person's version. More low key. Yeah. More modest. Yeah, exactly. So it's almost like it's set up to be like, okay, young people, you set the tone.

So what about when I was asking about relationships you have with people and you mentioned just authority figures.

Looking at other cultures, you see extended family households where you have Like, a lot of older people living with you, aunts and uncles and grandparents, we don't have that. Do you think that plays into this?

The relationship you have with your grandparents, for example, if you have one, is probably pretty disconnected because they're probably living independently or in a nursing home. Or do you think that plays into our ideas about the elderly and our lack of understanding?

Yeah, I would say it's a lot more individualistic.

Yeah.

I think that's the reason why it kind of feels like elderly people are almost invisible is because they kind of get shoved away in a little box, which is like, the nursing homes or wherever. And you don't really tend to think about that. These were once younger people. Younger. They were kids.

They were teenagers once, and now they're just hidden away.

Mm. Mm. Yeah.

I definitely think about how, like, I wish I called my grandparents more, but then I don't, you know, And I think that we do that because we just get so caught up in our lives, and we think, oh, well, they'll understand. Like, they were busy once too. But then you think, like, well, they are getting older, you know?

But then is that the stereotype where we just think old people are, like, just walking towards, like, dying?

Right. Yeah.

When I mean older people, I'm talking about more elderly people now, which I definitely don't think is true, that stereotype. I really don't like that people just see old people as, like, oh, they get sick and they have cognitive decline, and it's just end of life.

Because for the most part, my grandparents are, like, very full of life, at least the ones who took care of themselves when they were younger.

What do you guys think could be done to change those stereotypes about aging, about being older? Or do you think it's functional the way it is?

I think it is functional the way it is.

And although that sounds very sad, I think once you realize that people think like, oh, they're just rude, like, from a customer service point of view, like, it's always the elderly people that are gonna be rude or, like, older people are gonna be, you know, slow to order, like, things like that. I think that is functional because, you know, as we age, that does happen. And from.

You're talking about, like, generational differences, and it makes it awkward and. Okay, so the stereotypes kind of fit the understanding and the relationship of it. Okay. Okay. Yeah.

So, like, it's. It's easy to see because, like, my train of thought is, like, I'm going to be like that. So, like, they're.

They're being rude right now, and they're doing all this and, like, you know, I'm going to end up like that, too. So if I was an older person, it's kind of an empathetic point of view. Like, I do the same thing.

Okay.

I definitely share that perspective. I interact with a lot of older people at work and I feel a lot of empathy towards them.

Like, of course they can be grouchy and, like, slow to understand things, but at the same time, I think I would be very grouchy if everything just changed and everybody expected me to be able to figure it out. The coupons at my job, they used to all just be physical, but now there's certain ones that you have to get online.

And it's very frustrating for those older people. And to me and a lot of other customer service workers that see 100 of these older people are very quick to get frustrated that they don't understand.

But I think it is functional to have some of those stereotypes, I guess, because you have a preconceived notion of treating them kindly and letting them take their time.

Yeah, that's really interesting, you guys. Yeah, yeah.

I have a bit of a different view on it. I think, pragmatically, I don't think it's ever going to change.

I think that generally, society, as far back as it's ever originated, is probably going to favor vitality and youth over any younger perspective.

And you're talking about societies if.

I think, if I'm on the same track as you, societies where you don't have a long life expectancy, so somebody who is going to live a long time is an exception. And so you would. You could see them as wise and valuable, but it wouldn't be the majority of the group where now it's different.

Where you have a large population, you're talking about being young and being able to be a successful hunter. And like that part. Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

I also just want to say on my own perspective, a lot of the older people in my life that I've interacted with are usually far more competent and individualistic than I think older people tend to usually be seen as or experienced as. I don't really think that's a common place really to see.

I think people kind of view them as just kind of individualistically trying to move on, just kind of drag through life.

So do you think that most elderly people are competent and it's just the youth misunderstands it because we're usually in the youth setting, we're in these like, I mean, you guys are talking about settings that are moving along quickly with technology, which. It does make sense that it's hard for people to adapt to that, but outside of that context, I think, I.

Mean, I mean, yeah, to live long you kind of have to be competent.

Sure, for sure. Yeah.

I don't know. I don't know if I completely agree with that, but I think the life expectancy now in the United States is because of the resources that we have.

Not necessarily.

You know, you could be a pampered person all throughout your life and you can still survive without knowing what the price of milk is or like a price of egg. Eggs are, you know, like a price of egg, but like, you know what I mean?

Yes, that's a good point. Yeah. Were you talking like competent as in something else?

Like just generally aware of how to take care of themselves, how to take care of, how to speak to people, how to perform socially? Usually if they can't really do these things individualistically, if they're disconnected from family, they don't really have a way to survive.

Right. Maybe that's the key there is not having the family. Yeah, yeah.

Do you think that like you say like competence. Do you think that older people, like elderly people, are held to the same Standard they were 20 years prior?

No, definitely not. Definitely not, no. No.

Yeah. Because you were just like saying like competence and being able to take care of yourself improves life expectancy.

But in our like more industrialized society, we have ways to go over those barriers. Like nurses, you know, like in her home nurses.

And just mobility aids in general, like, have advanced so far to the point where you don't even have to be able to really move yourself to be able to live your life. And of course it comes with hurdles, but I'm sure they can find happiness.

What I will say is I don't think that shift has happened completely because we haven't really reached a generation where the people who grew up on that same kind of reliance on industrial advancement have really come up and gotten older and entered that sort of place yet.

Okay.

I definitely think predominantly as well to this age right now. Older people, at least the ones that don't have like many connections, powers, family, they're usually very individualistically competent.

Yeah, I would agree with that for sure. I kind of wanted to. On a related topic, why does our culture tend to be so anti elderly?

You've kind of talked about the technology changing and so it's hard to adapt, so it's hard to Relate. But I do think something in here has to do with avoiding death.

So I wanted to ask you, why do we avoid talking about death and how is that connected with kind of our anti aging stance?

Well, I think age usually is seen as a slow declining drop towards, you know, the end. And you know, that's a pretty scary thing to see. Like you're just gonna have this exos thought of, oh, I'm not going to be here.

I'm going to be like them. I'm going to be like that person who slowly withered away in their bed. And that's not really something a lot of people want to think about.

It's just a pretty scary thing to think about.

Yeah.

Slowly just losing your agency.

Yeah, yeah, I agree.

I definitely agree with that. We probably don't like talking about death because we're scared.

Nobody wants to die, but I think also nobody wants to get old because we hear more about people talking about people dying from unnatural causes than we do people dying of like, older age. And so I think the stigma against death is just like associated with older age. And I think that the stigma lies in the values of our society.

Like for men those values are like labor and education attainment. And then for women, they're becoming more like men. But historically in the past it's been like, can you have a child? And are you beautiful?

And since those things decline with age, age is also associated with just negative because we, to the dominant ideology no longer have value in society.

Yeah, yeah. Death has always been, I think, for the most part, something that people stray away from talking about just because it's kind of unknown.

You know, you can have a religion that tells you all this, this and this, this is going to happen with death, but no one really knows. And you can't ask someone that has been through it.

I mean, theoretically, yeah, someone that died for like three seconds and then was brought back to life. But you know, I haven't met one.

Of those people yet.

Right. It's very, the, the chances of meeting someone like that is very slim.

But also I think that when we talk about why elderly people are kind of pushed away and, and I think it, it has to do with productivity. Like they have.

Not to say that they haven't met their prime, but I think that their health and that the amount of stuff that they could do for like, let's say a company or a workplace or things like that, you know, it's kind of like at a decline. You know, they're after their, their health prime and they start to decline. It's kind of hard for them to be productive.

And in a society that focuses mainly on work and doing things and getting things done, you know, it's hard for them to kind of fit that mold when you're an elderly person.

I think too our healthcare system is so robust and a big part of our belief system replacing a lot of ideas, supernatural ideas. And so the goal there is to avoid pain and death with aging.

As you were describing Isaiah, withering away in a, in a bed instead of having like a glorious exit, you know, whether it be I'm going to war and I'm going to die for my country or I'm going to give birth and that's my job, you know, and if I die during labor, so be it. This was my job. So kind of pairing with what you guys were saying. But that ultimate end is no longer glorified. It, it has very little.

And we wanted to avoid it the whole time. Right. Everything in our system, what we're eating, what we're taking everyday vitamins is all to avoid this inevitable, the inevitable.

Thanos,.

I like how you said that, that we kind of went away from this dying of glory because in ancient Greece there was a thing called kleos and that was kind of like dying in battle and being what you're remembered as.

And I like, I like how you put that because now a post industrial society is like you just die from old age because you know, we have the resources to do that, but it's not as cool and what is it, what is the word I'm looking for?

Gratifying.

Yeah, like dying a meaningful death.

Well and like you guys mentioned, there's no more productivity. So yeah, you don't, you can't if you die early.

And you mentioned like we hear about these deaths of young people and we think, oh, what a tragedy, you know, and it is sad, but it's not different in the loss of life than somebody who's older and yet we look at it differently. I was going to ask that next real quick here. How do we learn about death?

Like what's the presentation of death in our social media and movies and all that? Does it give us a real picture of what that is like?

I think the presentation of death is honestly, I think it's completely unique to how someone experiences life. I haven't seen a common portrayal of death in any type of culture or media that can culminate into a single image.

It's just kind of treated as the end. Sometimes treated as sad, sometimes treated as positive, peaceful, sometimes treated as scary, sometimes it's treat as meaningful. It's.

I don't think there's really a core idea towards death.

Okay.

I think we first learn about death when we experience the death of a pet. But it really depends on the parent, on whether or not that pet actually died or was relocated to a farm.

Right. The control over a child experiencing death is, is different than it would have been in the past or in other cultures.

We see something, we see death as something to protect children from, which is another, like, example of how our society views it. Because we just see it as this like, horrible, horrible thing. And it definitely, in like being able to live a long life is definitely a privilege.

And the fact that we kind of de. Glamorize dying of old age is a wild concept because you live such a full life and you think that would be celebrated, but it's not.

And it just really shows how privileged our society is because so many people, like, so many societies have life expectancies like 30, maybe even lower. And I just think that is partly because of the way we are introduced to death.

If we were told we had our first pet die, oh, this is just a circle of life. You know, beings come, beings go, it will happen eventually. And you just live life until. Until the way you want, until it happens.

We probably wouldn't have such bad notions about death.

Interesting. And now there's. Genetically, you can get clones of your pets so that you don't ever have to let them talk.

I don't agree.

Just throwing that out there. I saw that in the news the other day. So, I mean, clearly we're trying to avoid that now.

That's a freakish thing to think about.

It is, it is. Yeah.

I think for at least Americans, it's definitely something unknown. And again, it's like, don't, don't. We don't really speak about it. We're just like, oh, she died. Like, oh, grandma died, grandpa died.

You know, And I think as a Mexican, I think we really emphasize death as something that's not. Not. It's permanent, but it's not the end of them. So we offer up like foods and treats and things like that for the Day of the Dead.

You know, we celebrate all the people that have, have died before us. And you know, growing up, my mom would always be like, well, she'd see hummingbirds and she'd be like, those are your past.

You know, I'm like, girl, what are you talking about as an American? But I think that's a very beautiful. Beautiful concept.

Yeah, it is. It is. The beauty of dying is not often described in that way. Yeah. Or openly.

This is a great topic, and I feel like we could keep talking on it, but we got to wrap up for the day, so thank you for joining us and we'll talk to you next time.

Bye.

Bye.

You've been listening to the Sociological POV. Thank you for your time. This podcast is featured as a part of LCC Connect, a podcast network developed by Lansing Community College. To listen to this episode on demand or explore other LCC Connect podcasts, visit lccconnect.com. We hope you'll join us again on the Sociological POV, as we explore the good, the bad, and the world around us.