With Steve out on college tours, I sit down solo with Beth Carter, the self-proclaimed badass bookkeeper who talks to trades clients like actual human beings instead of reciting profit and loss statements like a robot.

We discuss why your aunt Sue probably shouldn't be doing your books, the difference between quality bookkeeping and data entry, and how a negative $250,000 bank account on a balance sheet is a pretty good sign something's gone horribly wrong.

We explore the generational divide in how business owners value bookkeeping services, why price shopping for bookkeepers is a terrible idea, and what happens when you try to sell your business with $200,000 in phantom accounts payable.

Highlights:

• Understanding why specialization matters because your general contractor isn't an electrician and your office assistant probably isn't a trained bookkeeper.
• The generational shift in how younger business owners view bookkeeping services compared to those who rely on family members and checkbooks.
• What quality bookkeeping actually includes beyond data entry and why investing in good systems and expertise pays off.
• Real examples of marketing gone wrong and how an experienced bookkeeper knows to spot inconsistencies to help business owners save money.
• The importance of monitoring your numbers closely especially during growth periods to avoid spending profit before securing your business foundation.

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Brad Herda:

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Welcome back to this episode of Blue Collar BS. This episode, again, Mr. Stephen Doyle is vacant because he is still on the college tour trip with his daughter. We wish them all the luck as his daughter's looking at colleges in Michigan and other places. So he is out. So I get to have the pleasure today of having a one on one conversation with our guest, Beth Carter, bookkeeping's go to gal.

and the spirited CEO of BBA Bookkeeping with a knack for numbers and a flair for fostering growth. is at the helm of, I'm sorry, Beth isn't just at the helm of your typical bookkeeping firm. She's pioneering a way for small business owners not to only survive, but thrived, arms with years of experience and expertise and an insatiable passion for making business personal. Beth's philosophy, empower any value.

Elevate not evaluate at BB. I can't read reading is not my fun things to do, especially when it's on this script. So anyhow, Beth is a she's got this puppy Mario Speedwagon. So that's always a fun nickname for Beth Beth Dog. But she is truly a badass of bookkeeping. A friend of mine. We network. We're in masterminds together. She knows her shit.

And I am grateful that she's come onto our show to be able to share her knowledge with our audience because most of our audience I'm going to assume has no fucking clue what their numbers mean or what they are at times. So, Beth Carter, welcome to the show.

Whoa, thank you for that warm welcome. Can you read that again? I missed it.

Well, it was... No, no, I can't. My go-to gal. Bookkeeping's go-to gal. Go-to gal! Who the hell wrote that for you? No, no, I have it on video. You said you're so smart. I have it. I have a clip that you've told me. I was so smart.

Yeah.

I don't know why you're my friend.

Sometimes you're smart, also you're awful.

Well, true. You're not wrong.

Yeah, no, I'm usually not. Ask my husband.

true. I would doubt no, no thanks. He's never right. I'm sure of that. I'm sure that he is always in a deficit mode of of wins versus losses. So before we get started, Beth, what generation are you part of belong to or identify?

comment.

Well, I guess it depends on who you talk to, but I am, I know Brad. I am technically an elder millennial. I was born at the end of 1980.

Talking to you.

Okay. So in 1980, whether it's the beginning or the end, it's still 1980.

Well, no, because like 1981 is where it kind of gets hazy, right? We're like, you know, 1980, 1980 is kind of hazy. 1981 is really when Millennials started. But maybe it was 79 or 80. So I don't know, I'm gonna go with Millennials.

Okay, so would that be like saying that that's kind of like an expense, not really, it's an investment?

Is this whole fucking podcast gonna just be you being an asshole?

No, no, it's not, but I appreciate the concern.

Brad Herda (03:34.21)

So how did you find your desire and passion for empowering and elevating bookkeeping?

well, I found it because I realized I'm really good at it and a lot of people are really, really bad at it.

How'd you stumble into it?

I stumbled into it just from being put in that place in jobs. Like, hey, you're good with numbers. Can you go take care of this? Can you go take care of that? And then one day someone said, hey, do you want to do bookkeeping? And I was like, sure. And it just kind of worked.

So instead of fixing it, can you make sure it doesn't become a problem?

Yeah. And I was just, I was really good at it and I loved it. And then I started working with small businesses and realizing, wow, these people really have no idea what's going on in their books. not only am I really good at the numbers and figuring that shit out, but I'm also able to talk to people like they're human beings, not like expecting.

Not like me, you don't talk to your clients like me, do you?

No, a little bit. Some of my trades clients I do. Yeah. Yeah. Some of them, some of them, but only in a loving way, friend. But, you know, really it was like, I know how to talk to people, you know, and I, thank you.

You don't call your clients assholes, do you?

OK, thank you.

That is the truth. That is true.

And I will say in a previous job, I will never forget this. I was in my early 20s and I had said something and one of my coworkers said, yeah, Beth talks like she's a Valley girl and ready, ready? The other person said, yeah, like a trucker from the Valley.

From Jersey.

So either way, I've always had this way of speaking that totally works well with the trades world. And I love those clients, right? Because I can talk to you like a human and I can be like, hey, dude, you spent too fucking much money on advertising last month. Like, let's talk about what's going on. Not like.

And got and your top line didn't go up. what are you doing?

Right, not something like, well, I was reviewing your profit and loss statement and what we discovered was, you know, basically something that sounds like my bio. Right? So I don't speak like my bio.

That's why it was funny when I saw it. like, my gosh, this is not even close. Bookkeeping's go-to gal.

Okay, it's better in reading

Right?

Oh, that's a lot. But you're right. It is it is it being able to understand have that type of conversation of, you spent $2,000 advertising, you got nothing done with it. There were no results. What's happening? Right? Having those

not that marketing is a bad thing marketing. I'm a firm believer of you cannot cut your way to profitability. have to sell your way to profitability. But there are ways to do it and ways not to do it.

Sure.

Absolutely and at some point like I had a I have a roofing client and He was spending shit tons of money on advertising For a long time he got sucked into a really really long-term contract Which is obviously something to be careful of like there's a balance I think if we're gonna talk about advertising like there's a balance between

letting it go long enough to see if it's going to make a difference and impact, because it's not going to happen in a month, but also not letting it go for so long that if nothing's working, then you're still paying for it. But this client thought that that was what he had to do. And he was just sort of stuck in that place of working with this advertising company, when in reality, that's a...

when you're generally speaking when you're into the trades, you're looking for local advertising, right? You're not nationally advertising things. So it really needs to be specific to your physical location. the first thing I did when I was talking to him about his marketing costs, I looked him up. said, Roofing Company near me. He lives in the next town over. It's a roofing company near me. Nothing came up.

Correct.

He had been working with this company for like eight months. Nothing came up. I put in his company name and nothing came up. Like another company three towns over came up. He said, well, I have an Instagram. I said, do you think that your clients are checking Instagram like for a roof, like when they need a new roof? Is that, really?

And he said, well, I've never gotten a client from it. And I said, let me take a look at it. And I looked at his Instagram. He had one follower and it was him.

Wow, wow. Unfortunately, you've got a bad deal.

But it was opposed three times a week.

Unfortunately, he got taken to the cleaners. And that's that's what happens. And if you don't have anybody paying attention like Beth and her team following what's going on as they carry that through, that can go on for years and years and years. And at the end of the day, you need to buy batteries for your tools. You need to get shit for your truck. And if you're spending things aren't getting a return, then you don't have the money to do those other things.

Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

All right. So, so being able to speak in their terms and provide them those opportunities is, a huge value add. How do you find, let's talk about your, demographics, maybe of your clients, right? Your younger clients versus your older clients, older like me, let's just say. I know you didn't say it. I did. I took it away from you. Sorry.

I didn't say it.

I know you're being kind because you're a guest. get it, but that's OK. I don't know if I had a guest call me an asshole before though. Yeah, I don't think I've ever had anybody do that. Well, really. Again, you're not wrong. What? How?

Really? That's actually really surprising.

Anyone that knows you, anyway.

Right. Because you're a specialized service provider and and it's it's true. It's an ex theoretically it's an expense to them versus an investment or a necessity. Are you seeing a difference between younger and older business owners as to being accepting of that necessity to to make that part of their business versus not my my my bias as I think younger individuals might be more receptive to saying this is what I have to have.

to be successful versus the older owners. That's my perception. Bookkeeping, your services, bookkeeping in general.

we talking about advertising or bookkeeping? Bookkeeping. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So that's a fun question, Brad, that I'm gonna try and answer without offending anybody that is maybe a client of mine.

You won't offend them unless the only way you'll offend them is if they listen

Yeah, no, the only the older generation in the trades, whether it's a generational company, or, you know, it's just been around for forever, just the same, you know, dude, or whatever. They don't seem to generally find the value in bookkeeping.

and what that means is they think that it's just to get your taxes done.

because I got a checkbook.

I got a checkbook. Why do I? I don't I don't need you. have a checkbook. I know what I got.

Exactly. And, you know, that was the way that their dad did it and their dad's dad did it and, you know, and it's maybe they're like cousins, best friends, teacher who's doing the books. Yeah.

No, and Sue's taking care of it. And I'm paying and Sue way more than I'm probably pay that I'd probably pay you to take care of it and get way better results.

Or I'm not paying on Sue at all and she hasn't done anything in three months and I'm annoyed.

Well, that could be that's also very true.

Yeah. And so yeah, definitely they don't they don't see the purpose in in bookkeeping because they think that Anzu can do it. And unfortunately, unless Anzu is actually a bookkeeper by trade, then she probably isn't doing it well. She's probably doing it well enough that you think that she's doing a good job. But there are things I have a business and I have a career.

for a reason. Bookkeeping is a very specialized thing. Okay, that too. But like, we're here for a reason. Like my job is freaking hard, Brad. Like if it wasn't, it would be, and I know that everybody listening can relate to this. It's hard to hire staff, right? And I know you have your whole platform that you stand on for that. So we're not gonna even go down that road yet. But.

Let's not talk about the casino, okay?

I'm not gonna disagree with you.

It's hard to hire staff, period. It just is. Like for whatever reasons, it's complicated. Sure, complicated. If my job was, if being a bookkeeper was easy, then I would have no problem, no complications hiring staff. But it's not. The same way, you know, I'm not gonna go and climb on a roof and start, you know,

I'll use the word complicated, not hard.

banging in some tiles. Is that even what goes on roof? I don't know.

Sure, tiles, shingles, depends on what part of the country. It could be tile, could be shingles.

Same thing. Same thing. Yeah, you know? But like, it's just, it's very undervalued, I believe, in that generation. This generation understands, I think, I don't know if it's because they grew up on computers, and they grew up in a sort of different world, and a world of small businesses, right? Like, there are so many small businesses out there now.

that they know, maybe maybe if they don't value it yet, or even understand it, they know that their friend who has a similar kind of company, they have a bookkeeper. And what is what does that bookkeeper do for you guys? they do. Like, you know, and it's sort of it passes itself along in that way. And then they're interested, I think there's more openness in the younger generations to the value and the need for for bookkeeping.

I think there's just more willingness to understand that there is specialization and that to surround yourself with teams that can provide you value versus not is is a different behavior. I've got I got I got a client that bought it bought a business from his from from his family, right? Essentially, and I got asked what why wasn't this done before my response was

Yeah, and you know that one.

The things we've been working on. Why was it? Why am I picking up all these pieces and the response I got was because surrounded themselves with people who were there to just collect the check and do the very specific task and that's it. And there was no additional question. There was no. Yep, the tax guy. You got your stuff. I do your taxes great. I'll see you next year. There was no.

Mm-hmm.

The insurance person. Yep. Here's your renewal. Great. I'm not going to shop it around. I'm not going to ask you questions. Did you hire more people? Did you not hire more people? Did you have safety issues? Did you not have safety issues? We're not going to have those conversations to see what's what risks are going to that exist or are going to be, you know, taken away because of things you've done in your business. I don't think that's the same way with the younger entrepreneur, the younger business owner in that.

Yup.

Mid-millennial and younger. I think there are more curiosity because so do you find that people using this phone thing to be there? Asking questions about financials and different things possibly that they're getting misinformation comparatively to being able to talk to that professional bookkeeper, etc that the young

Or the same thing if they're hiring somebody for 20 bucks an hour, you know, to do their books. it's, you know, back to the idea of value is that, yes, I said idea. I did. Yeah. There's my New England accent coming out.

We're gonna talk about the package.

So, no comment.

What was I gonna say? I totally lost my train of thought now, In terms of, mentioned shopping around for insurance. There are places where you want to shop around, where you want to find a lowest price because with insurance, for example, you're very rarely requiring something from your insurance carrier, hopefully, right?

Here's an idea.

depends.

And, but you don't always necessarily want to go with the cheapest. Like I remember like Geico, when Geico first came out, they were so cheap, but they were awful. And so you have to make that determination. With bookkeeping.

If people don't recognize the value of it, they are price shopping. And the first thing I tell people that come to me is that if you are price shopping, then we are not it. Nor are any of my friends who own firms who do a phenomenal job. You're not going to find great bookkeeping unless it's like, you know, a diamond in the rough for a value price. that's not what you're looking for with bookkeeping. You want bookkeeping to be

somebody who can talk to you and somebody who can make things make sense and provide that value.

So what are those three minutes? What would be those two or three misconceptions of value?

Sure, so we are very tech savvy, for example, at my firm. And a lot of the older generations might shy away from that. Like they're still using QuickBooks desktop, which they've been on for 30 years, which by the way is no longer supported by QuickBooks. So.

Well, it is this year. did decide to do it again this year. They didn't get rid of it completely because they pissed off.

Yeah.

But it's going bye bye. A lot of firms won't even work with companies who are on desktop. And so the value that we bring, for example, because we use lots of technology is we have a quality assurance system, for example, that we pay for. So.

Eventually,

Instead of just having a second set of eyes review everything, we actually have a system that goes in and checks and makes sure that there's no issues with what's been entered. And that costs money, right? I have to pay for that system. I have to pay for the staff to, the time and the staff to train on that system and then to use that system. And so for that, you know, our prices are going to be higher, but our quality is going to be better just because of that.

So let's take a step back though. What's the difference between a quality set of books and not a quality set of books? And I don't know that many people understand the difference. So if we could spend a short minute just kind of going through that.

Yeah, so let me give you perfect-

Yeah, let me give you a perfect example. A lot of business owners have heard of, at least, they have heard of a profit and loss statement. And they've probably maybe heard the term balance sheet, but have no idea what it is or what it means. And that's not a diss to anybody, that's just how it is.

a balance sheet is where is the health of your company, right? It's like a quick image, a snapshot of what's going on in your company. so what I think is that a lot of like a quote, how am gonna word this and be nice? A, all right, a shitty bookkeeper.

where you your retained earnings from, good or bad.

Don't worry about it. It's okay.

is not paying attention to the balance sheet. They are only paying attention to the expenses and the income, which are what's on the profit and loss statement. The way I like to explain a balance sheet to people is that a balance sheet is a snapshot of a day, a moment, a day in time with what you own and what you owe. That's it. Okay. And

Because people aren't paying attention to that, so many errors can come out. I had a client, an electrician recently that came to me and thought his books were in great shape. He just needed, he just wanted to convert to QuickBooks Online. Yep. And the very first thing I saw, negative $250,000 asset.

Just tidy these up.

When was the last time your bank let you go negative $250,000 on your bank account?

Okay? I know. But Brad, people don't know!

Well, I'm I'm only laughing because I know it's true, right? Because because.

People don't know to look for that if they're not looking at the balance sheet.

I just got done doing some work with some folks that were looking to acquire a couple units in a franchise locations and stuff and we're doing some reverse calculation to give them an opportunity to go and negotiate and stuff and these financials were horrible they were terrible like my gosh how are you

someone reach out last weekend, he's selling his business, he's got a cleaning business. and he's selling the business he thinks for about $2 million, but they need financials. And I said, so everything's in good shape, then it's just you need to get a little late. said, like, I just need like, January and February caught up. I said, Okay. And I looked at his books, and

Brad, you would cry.

Oh, I, I, I know I'd probably laugh hysterically going, Oh my God, you think you're going to get $2 million for this business? It's probably going to only be worth about $140, $150,000 by the time you get the paperwork.

Right, one of the reasons there was a ton of accounts payable and a ton of negative accounts receivable, which are things that shouldn't happen. So you're saying with all the accounts payable, I said, you owe other people like $200,000 in bills, why haven't you paid them yet? Because I paid everybody, I'm all paid up. I said, not according to your financial statements, you're not.

So you try and go and sell that company, but it looks like you owe other people $200,000. Well, guess what? That's probably what? $400,000 off of your valuation. Right? So that's what I talk about, what I mean when I say value, is having somebody who really truly understands accounting, not just somebody who's doing data entry.

least.

I think that's a big, big opportunity to understand across everybody. And for me, for what we do and Steve and I and clients work, the financial piece is so important and, understanding the difference between your financials and your taxes. Those are two very different things and how you categorize things and do different things. That's, that's, that has an impact on your taxes. That is not an impact on your

Whether you put it into meals, entertainment, or travel, that has a tax implication, not a financial statement implication. So being clear and working with, having your bookkeeper working closely with your tax advisors to understand what your strategies and initiatives are is really important because...

Yeah, and I think too it's important to sort of reiterate that your office assistant is probably not your bookkeeper or probably shouldn't be your bookkeeper. Unless they are a trained bookkeeper who also does some office assistant stuff. And I might make some people mad with this, but.

You know, it's, it's my, my general contractor is not an electrician.

You know, it's that simple. And it's unfortunate.

Numbers do matter. Numbers matter more than people believe until when they want to go get the line of credit, when they want to get the loan, when they want to buy the truck, when they want to do all these other things. It matters to be able to show what's going on with your business and I cannot.

when they want to get a better interest rate. mean, you've got you're sitting there with, you know, I saw the same set of books this weekend. He had like, 10 loans on the books, but only five assets on the book.

gambling problem.

Yeah, it just, looked really bad.

taking out loans for gambling? That's her what? Right. Wow. Right.

Yeah, yeah. And so you've to think about those things. You got to think about like, it's not necessarily just today that it matters. It's like, yeah, I'm probably going to get a loan at some point, whether it's just a little loan for, you know, a trailer, or if it's a big loan for a, you know, giant piece of equipment.

Building right. So if people want to. Get a hold of. The bookkeeping's go to gal and spirited CEO. How do people find you? But you almost flip me the finger you really wanted to. I could see it when you put your go come on. My hand just moved that way. Whatever it's OK. I get it. I get it. It's OK. I hear you. How do people find you Beth?

my god, Brad.

No I didn't! My hands just moved that way!

Okay, on Instagram, no, I'm just kidding. The best way would be my website, which is bbabookkeeping.com, two O's, two K's, two E's, or you can just email Brad and say, I need Beth.

Tick tock.

I need that gal. Who's that go-to gal?

You got go to gal.

I didn't expect this whole podcast to be like a you know sale for why you need bookkeeping so This kind of went off the rails a little bit

all good. No, it's no, because we each generate. Yes, it's generationally different, right? You we've explained that yes, there's the value difference and understanding the value difference and that the younger generation may have a greater value than the older, but also understanding the importance of making sure that it's good is just solid business practice and solid understanding. And and in order to do that, how do know how you how do know what you can afford to hire that next employee at if you don't know what's really going on? How do you know

what piece of equipment you can go out and buy if you don't know what's going on, how, right?

Or if you should rent the equipment or buy the equipment, what the long-term cost of that's gonna be, like all those things.

And being in a position to know what that looks like other than just yeah, got money in the bank and I can write a check today and I think it's all good, but we don't know what our backlog is. We don't know what all those other things are the financial aspect and you know, the biggest reason businesses fail because they don't have the capital to sustain what's going on and there's usually that capital runs out because they're spending it in the wrong places at the start.

Mm-hmm.

instead of investing where it needs to go because they don't have somebody on their team to support them through that conversation.

because they think that that accounting people are just a waste of money and know, Aunt Sue can do it and then Uncle Tom can do the taxes. or the misconception that your tax person is going to review everything that your bookkeeper did to make sure that it's right. And guess what? They're not.

Yeah, nope. Nope, it's not. So Beth, so here's a portion of the show that Steve came up with. It's called Bite Your Tongue. And I'm sure that that's never happened to you where you've had a situation where you should have bit your tongue and not said something that you actually ended up saying, like calling the host of a show an asshole, maybe, I don't know. be one. No one's arguing, but could be one of those things. I'm not sure.

Still no one's arguing with that.

Is there a time where maybe you should have maybe stop thought and then reevaluated? And if so, what maybe did you learn from that experience?

God, 100%. I mean, can you call yourself an entrepreneur if you haven't had that moment?

Well, but what did you learn from it? What was the situation? What did you learn?

I mean, I, you if we want to talk numbers and books, I grew too fast at one point in our history of BBA. I wasn't paying attention to the staffing, the way that I should have been and really running my numbers to see what can I afford, what can I do.

And I was so excited because I started making a really big profit. And that kind of went to my head. And I was saying, well, this is my money now. Instead of saying, well, right at this stage of the business, that should be the business's money, not my money.

and you see all the pretty things behind me. clearly have a shopping issue.

Really we're not gonna talk so yeah, we're not gonna talk about the 70 pairs of glasses that you have to to fit the brand They are awesome 100 % agree, but yes, you do have a shopping habit. I'm not gonna lie

mean, they're pretty awesome though, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Because now, now because of what I've learned in the past, now my money is my money. And there's money in the business as well. And I don't have to feel guilty about the money that's my money. Because I, I've been able to hire staff that that are full, but not so overloaded that they can't breathe.

Right? And I've hired extra. I have contractors who can kind of fill the spaces that I didn't used to have before because I didn't pay attention. You know, and then there's every time you've given me advice and I don't listen and then I go, shit, I should have listened to Brad because guess what? Brad's smart. Brad is smart.

Hey, just so you know, this is being recorded.

perpetuity Beth I can't thank you enough and and you are 100 % true on your philosophy right to empower and elevate and I can say with 100 % certainty that you You care about your customers you care about your the people you you support

And you've learned that if you care more than they do, it's a problem. And that is where great service providers know their value, right? If you care more than they do and they're not willing to listen, then they need to be shed and go find somebody, go finance, go find the thing. But the opportunity you provide your clients to understand their financials is nothing short of spectacular because they're going to be in better spot long term.

Hahahaha

They may not recognize it, but when it comes to that time to go sell or transition or be ready for an opportunity, it's about creating options of opportunity and you support them to make that happen. So thank you for what you do for the community. I appreciate it. And if anybody wants to talk to bookkeeping's go to gal, just let me know. I'm more than happy to connect y'all.

You what, can you just call me the badass bookkeeper instead, please?

It says first thing, meet Beth Carter, bookkeeping's go-to gal and spirited CEO of BBA Bookkeeping. Nowhere does it say in your bio, badass bookkeeping. Nowhere does it say badass bookkeeping in here at all. It just says BBA. I know you are the badass bookkeeper and I completely adore you for what you do and I appreciate all you do. So thank you, Beth, for being here today and sharing your wisdom and knowledge with our audience. All right, thanks.

Okay.

Am I not fucking spirited? Alright.

You know! You know I'm the badass.

Thanks, Brent. You got it.