On this episode of The Story & Craft Podcast, we sit down with showrunner, executive producer, writer and director, Stuart Zicherman from the FX Network series “American Sports Story, which is now available on Hulu!” We discuss Stuart’s extensive work in the film and television industry, including his projects like “The Shrink Next Door”, “The Americans”, and his latest project “American Sports Story” about football player, Aaron Hernandez. Stuart shares insights into his career, the creative process, and the challenges of working on true stories. The conversation also touches on personal anecdotes, storytelling influences, favorite movies, and future projects.

SHOW HIGHLIGHTS

03:12 Stuart's Early Career and Breakthrough

15:26 Transition to TV and Working with JJ Abrams

20:33 The Writing Process and Screenwriting Insights

26:11 Personal Projects and Inspirations

27:27 Personal Stories and Casting Choices

28:34 Transition to American Sports Story

29:00 Exploring the Aaron Hernandez Case

31:07 Challenges of Portraying Real People

34:04 Casting and Character Interpretation

40:09 Future Projects and Interests

43:23 Personal Reflections and Preferences

45:12 The Seven Questions

Listen and subscribe on your favorite podcast app.  Also, check out the show and sign up for the newsletter at  www.storyandcraftpod.com

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#podcast #StuartZicherman #ExecutiveProducer #Showrunner #Writer #Director #FXNetwork #Hulu #AaronHernandez #NFL #Football #Screenwriting #Moviemaking #storyandcraft

Watching Stand By Me, I mean, it is a perfect movie.

2

And like, it gets to the end

and I just, in tears in my eyes,

3

like, I couldn't believe it.

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I looked over at my son, he

was like, yeah, that's good.

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I'm like, no, dude, that was great.

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You know?

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Announcer: Welcome to Story Craft.

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Now, here's your host, Marc Preston.

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Marc Preston: All right, here we

go, another episode of Story Craft.

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Welcome.

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How are you?

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I'm Marc Preston.

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If this is your very first stop by

the show, I want to welcome you.

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Thank you very much for

just checking it out.

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Today, sitting down with Stuart Zicherman.

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Now, Stuart's an executive producer.

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He is a showrunner, writer, director.

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He's done a lot of work.

19

Projects over the years, you

may know of like Electra also

20

did some writing on the show.

21

The shrink next door with

Paul Rudd and Will Ferrell.

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He also did the Americans

on the FX network.

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The new project he's got out is

called American Sports Story about

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the football player Aaron Hernandez.

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It is currently on Hulu.

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Very talented guy when it comes

to just the Sheer breadth of work.

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He's done.

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Uh, like I said, he's producing, writing,

directing, very talented for sure.

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Now, if you would do me a favor, I

always ask this humble, this humble

30

request is to pop on over to story

and craft pod forward slash rate.

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Do we say forward slash or just slash?

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Let me just do slash.

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Let's see how that sounds.

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Storyandcraftpod.

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com slash rate.

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Okay.

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That feels good.

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We'll, we'll do that.

39

What you do there is just kind of

hop on over to your favorite podcast

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app and rate the episode, rate

the show, uh, followed the show.

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If you would, that way you get notified

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also leave a review, if you would drop a

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Just pop a note in there.

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opportunity to discover story and craft.

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Also, the website, as I

mentioned, story and craft.

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Pod that's where you can find out

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past guests, of course Past episodes and

uh, you can also send me a note You can

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drop me a line if you would like leave a

voicemail you can do that also and just

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You know, it's a way for us to connect.

53

All right, uh, let's go

and jump right into it.

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Today is Stuart Zicherman day

right here on Story and Craft.

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Where are you joining me from today?

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Stuart Zicherman: Uh, I'm in New York.

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I'm in Rye, New York.

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Marc Preston: Rye, New York.

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Where is that?

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It's just outside the city.

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I, uh, Jewish kid from Dallas and We

had a couple of good delis there, uh,

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but now I'm living on an island in South

Texas and, uh, not a deli for, uh, I

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don't, I think I'd have to drive to

Austin to find a decent deli, you know?

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So it's kind of a, my heart breaks

a little bit, so I'm very envious

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that you got easy access to

Katz's and all that kind of jazz.

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So, um, I'm glad we had

a chance to connect.

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I was taking a look and just kind of

cursory, you know, preparing, noticed,

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uh, the diversity of stuff you've done

is, there doesn't seem to be a kind of a

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common thread between the type of genre.

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So you're not really kind of locked

into doing documentary or whatever.

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Action type stuff.

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So what was like kind of

the beginning for you?

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Were you originally a writer or were

you originally a screenplay writer?

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And what was kind of the Genesis, uh, to

kind of gotcha where you are right now?

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Stuart Zicherman: Well, yeah, I

mean, um, I've always wanted to

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be a writer, you know, at the

beginning of your career, you're just

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trying to find a way in, you know?

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Um, and I, you know,

I was, uh, it's funny.

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I was, I got into film school at USC grad

school and, um, you know, I You know,

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it started to sort of get some writing

under my belt, you know, for school.

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But, um, uh, but when I graduated from

film school, I, I had no money and

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I, I really needed to figure out a

way to go, you know, make some money.

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So I, I got a job as a PA

on a movie in New York.

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Um, uh, I said originally I actually got

a job cause I knew how to work a video

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camera to work the video camera for the

casting department, but it was this big,

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big casting director named John Lyons.

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who um, had done a bunch

of the cone brother movies.

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And I was just so excited to be in

any room getting paid to do anything.

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You know, he was casting a new movie

called city hall and it was, uh, Al

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Pacino, John Cusack, Bridget Fonda

movie directed by Harold Becker.

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And so I'm in these casting sessions and,

and Harold Becker is like sitting there,

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you know, he's, he's just sitting there.

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When the casting was over, he's

like, you seem like a smart guy.

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You know, you should, uh, you should

be my assistant for the movie.

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So I ended up being his

assistant on this gigantic, like.

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You know, a hundred day

movie shoot in New York.

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And, um, the best part of being,

you know, being on a film set like

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that is all the people you meet.

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Um, you know, I didn't even know what all

people did in all the departments, you

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know, and you just, you just get to know

people and it turned out that, um, you

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know, on the set of this movie over, over

months and months, I got to know this guy.

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He was one of the, one of the

ADs and he had written a movie.

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And he's like, Oh, you

went to film school.

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Would you read my movie?

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And I was like, sure.

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And it was an action movie, you know, and

I was like, I gave him the disclaimer.

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I'm, I went to film school.

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I'm not looking to write.

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You know, actually, but I'll give

you notes, you know, um, I was

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so arrogant, you know, and I,

um, anyway, so I read his script.

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He'd written it with this other guy.

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You got

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Marc Preston: that arrogance of

only a freshly minted, uh, film

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school student can have, yeah,

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Stuart Zicherman: like bonehead, you know?

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And, um, but it turned out I gave

these guys notes and they really

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liked my notes and they said,

would you want to rewrite it?

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You know, uh, with us and if we

sell it and I'm like, yeah, sure.

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You know, we'll, we'll sell it, you

know, and it all seems so ridiculous.

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Um, but I did, I would, I would

PA for like 15 hours a day.

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And then at night I kind of rewrote

their movies, uh, their movie.

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It turned out that one of those

guys knew a guy who worked in

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the, at William Morris and they

sold the movie to Warner brothers.

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And so I went from being a PA

one day to being a, you know,

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and it was an action movie.

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And so like, and that was,

that was the movie that.

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you know, I made my first Marc on.

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And so like, from that day forward, I.

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It was an action movie writer, you

know, without really, it was my way

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in and, um, that movie never got made,

but from it, I got an agent and started

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writing, you know, you're writing that in

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Marc Preston: and of itself.

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It was its own lesson.

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It always blows my mind whenever I'm

speaking with folks and I take a look

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sometimes at their, you know, a quick

glance at their IMDb is how many seemingly

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really cool projects just were either

made and just never got released.

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Story, you know, how.

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There's some stumble in the process.

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Yeah.

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Stuart Zicherman: Yeah.

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No, I mean, I worked on action movies for

the next 10 years, you know, um, and I

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think two of them got made and one of them

I got credit on and, but it's, it was,

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at the time it was a very funny thing.

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It's probably still this way, but, um,

you know, it's a, the action movie world

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was like, you, you, you pitch an idea,

you know, and, and you write a movie

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and then you get rewritten and maybe you

get brought back or you get hired on a

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different movie to rewrite, you know.

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I worked on a small piece of Rush Hour 2.

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You know, I worked on, like, I worked

on all these different things, but

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it was a cool experience and, um, and

you really, over time, start to figure

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out what you really want to write.

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Marc Preston: When you, uh, you decided

to go off to film school, what was the

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original plan where you're like, okay, I'm

going to be, uh, I'm going to be a writer,

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director, I'm going to be a producer.

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Executive producer.

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What was there originally

a plan as a freshman?

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What your game plan was?

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Stuart Zicherman: Yeah.

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I mean, I, I got into college.

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I was a classics major.

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I was an English major and I, um, I

loved drama and I loved, um, stories.

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And, and so when I applied to

film school, my hope was just to

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sort of learn something about it.

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I didn't come from a family

or a world where anybody had

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any connections to that world.

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I just loved.

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I love movies and TV, you know, and

I, I, um, so my hope was just, yeah,

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I want to be a writer director, but

what was great about, you know, the

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graduate program at USC is they, they

teach you everything, you know, you

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learn about sound, you learn about

cinematography, you learn about all the

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different elements of, you know, sound.

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And, um, you know, it was,

it was just for somebody who

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didn't know anything about it.

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Um, it was just a great

learning experience.

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Marc Preston: Well, you mentioned,

uh, you were, you know, nobody

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in your family was doing this.

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What, what were your folks up to?

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What was their, uh,

what was their vocation?

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I'm assuming, by the way, you, you,

uh, did you grow up in New York or

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is that where you're originally from?

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Stuart Zicherman: Yeah.

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And, um, Yeah, my mom was a teacher on

Long Island, um, a grade school teacher.

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And my dad worked, uh, as a stockbroker

and, and, um, you know, to their

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credit, they were always like, well,

you know, you know, it's a business

185

where one in a million make it.

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And they were up to their credit.

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They were always like, Somebody's

got to be the one, you know,

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so I always believed like

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Marc Preston: that.

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That's, that's a rarity, you know,

usually a parent, there's always that

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inclination to like, you don't want them

to hurt themselves or go down a path.

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That's going to be negative.

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You know, somebody has got to

do that was my mentality when I

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got into doing stuff like this.

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It's like, well, somebody has

got to do it, you know, so no

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inclination to, uh, go into, uh,

uh, stock brokerage, uh, brokerage.

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I can, I talk for a living.

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I know it's hard to believe there

was no inclination to do that at all.

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Stuart Zicherman: No, um, I'm not.

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No finance was not my, uh, my jam.

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It's funny, you know, for years,

like, you know, like you were

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saying before, you know, especially

in the movie business, you write

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movies and things don't get made.

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So for years I was working, writing

movies, making a living, you know,

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and, you know, I don't think my dad,

you know, my dad worked in finance.

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He understood like, yeah, Paychecks,

you know, like, um, like I couldn't ever

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show anybody, nothing ever got made.

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So like, they were like,

what are you really doing?

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You know,

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Marc Preston: But you can say, you

know, stockbroker, you're, you can say

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your job's very speculative as well.

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You know, when you think about it.

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Stuart Zicherman: Yeah, it is.

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Marc Preston: So when you're growing

up though, uh, of course you want to go

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and you said you love movies and were

you like just movies in general or did

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you really like going to the theater?

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Was the actual theatrical experience, was

that like a big thing for you or you just

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didn't care if you know, TV, theater?

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Stuart Zicherman: I loved,

I loved going to the movies.

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I mean, I loved it, loved it.

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You know, my parents were divorced and

like, you know, and I just, I felt like

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everything I learned about, there's a

sounds cliche, but everything I learned

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about the world was, you know, movies.

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I mean, I remember going

like with the colleges that.

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I thought that colleges were like where

everything looked like in Dead Poets

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Society, you know, um, even though that

was not even a college, it was a prep

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school, but, um, you know, um, so yeah,

I mean, I, I love going to the theater.

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I love the movie experience.

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I remember, you know, there's a lot of

movies you can, you can say to me, you

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know, like, oh, uh, Empire Strikes Back

or Princess Bride, or, you know, uh, and

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I can tell you, uh, The theater I was

at, you know, I remember the experience.

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Marc Preston: The movies kind of

became a timeline for you, like a

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little notches along the timeline

where you can say, well, no, this

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movie came out at, you know, a grade

you're in, what you were doing.

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Stuart Zicherman: Yeah.

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And it was such an event thing in your

life, you know, it was like, um, you

237

knew when he was coming out more all

day weekend or summer, you know, it was,

238

it was such a big part of our, because

obviously we didn't have, You know,

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we didn't have it in our homes yet.

240

Yeah.

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I loved it.

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I loved it.

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I, uh,

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Marc Preston: did you have any brothers

or sisters that, uh, were you an only kid?

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Stuart Zicherman: I had a sister,

um, and I have a sister and, um,

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yeah, she wasn't, they didn't do it.

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It was mainly like a thing I do with

my friends and, you know, I loved it.

248

I loved storytelling and I loved reading

and I loved, um, just loved storytelling.

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And it

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Marc Preston: was funny that what you

mentioned about Dead Poets Society,

251

cause I thought, oh, that was cool.

252

Small, uh, you know, uh,

college in Northeast.

253

And then I got a little older.

254

It's like, well, Van Wilder, that seems

like kind of a fun college experience

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also, you know, you know, what were the,

like those benchMarc movies or theatrical

256

experiences that you can call back on

and go, okay, that was Mount Rushmore

257

of movies that I just loved as a kid.

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Stuart Zicherman: Well, I mean, you

know, there were a few, I mean, there

259

was, you know, um, I love the princess

bride, you know, but I really loved,

260

like, this is obscure and weird.

261

There was a movie, uh, the eighties

called the killing fields that, um,

262

I remember seeing, it's like, it's

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Marc Preston: about Cambodia or Vietnam.

264

I think, um,

265

Stuart Zicherman: and, um, remember

like, It just was so transported to this

266

other world, this whole story I didn't

know anything about, you know, and, and

267

the sort of growing up a Jewish kid on

Long Island, like, you know, about the

268

Holocaust, but you didn't know there was

like a massacre of millions of civilians,

269

like movies, this could take you to these

other places and these other stories.

270

And, and I remember, um, You know,

after, um, seeing that movie, like

271

I started a food drive at school

for like Cambodian refugees,

272

cause I was so taken by the movie.

273

I just remember, yeah,

I saw it multiple times.

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I just like, you know, there were

movies like that, that just really, um.

275

Captivated me that the

drama of the storytelling,

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Marc Preston: but that's really, I guess

what kind of boils down to is, is the

277

storytelling when you realize it's not

just, uh, you know, you were a certain

278

age where everybody's watching the action

movies, you know, the diehard or whatever,

279

nothing against that great Christmas

movie, but you know, when that was going

280

on, Then you look at the more serious, for

lack of a better way of putting it, there

281

are certain movies that kind of grab you.

282

I remember when I was a kid, I think

the movie, the right stuff just kind

283

of captivated me for some reason,

just a different tonality feeling.

284

It was like, wait a minute, this was,

and I loved space stuff, you know?

285

So now, you know, we were talking

to like the diversity of the things

286

that you've definitely contributed to

different types of, you know, Stuff,

287

but is there anything you'd like, you

know, we're moving in the documentary

288

direction to where you're like, okay,

ultimately documentaries, that's the

289

thing for me, that kind of storytelling

or was it like dramas or was there

290

anything we were like, that's my jam.

291

Stuart Zicherman: You

know, um, it's funny.

292

So I started out writing these

action movies and, and, um, there

293

was a certain type of action movie

that I loved from movies growing up.

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Like I loved.

295

You know, the seventies, uh, thrillers

like marathon man and parallax view.

296

And if I could write like action movies

set in that, you know, in that tone, I

297

was, I was game to do that, but it's,

you know, it just wasn't like that.

298

And every action movie I worked on,

um, it, it felt like it was being built

299

by blocks, you know, um, and it just

didn't feel that creative and in between

300

the paid jobs I had on, on action

movies, I would try to write romantic

301

comedies, or I would try to write.

302

little obscure movies that would be

sort of, you know, maybe a way for me

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to break out and do something different.

304

But I remember, um, I did rewrites on

rush hour two, uh, the second of the rush

305

hour movies, and, um, they were shooting

in Las Vegas and I remember It was really

306

like the first time I worked on a big

set with big stars and, and I remember

307

being on set in, in Las Vegas and, and,

um, just being in the middle of it, like,

308

and, and Jackie Chan and Chris Tucker and

were so funny in person, like, and they

309

were so, uh, and the improv and the, um,

and the way that they could just take

310

like a couple of words that we wrote

and turn it into something different.

311

Like I was like, I just

wanted to find my way.

312

And it felt so human.

313

I just wanted to find my way into

things that felt human, you know?

314

And, um, and TV really gave me that

opportunity because, you know, um, in

315

movies, things just didn't get made.

316

And when I got the TV, I actually got

the TV initially through JJ Abrams.

317

He produced my first pilot and, um,

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Marc Preston: Oh, which

one, which one was that?

319

It was

320

Stuart Zicherman: a pilot

called pros and cons.

321

It didn't get picked up for series.

322

Marc Preston: Oh, okay.

323

Stuart Zicherman: Um, but it was

like a con man kind of thing.

324

And I remember like Being on

set, you know, when you're the

325

writer of a TV show, they, they

give you the keys to the kingdom.

326

Like you're on set.

327

You're, you're the one making

everything, you know, kind of happen.

328

You have that

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Marc Preston: thing about TV

that's different than movies.

330

Movies are director's medium,

but it seems like, uh, TV is more

331

of a writer's medium, you know?

332

Stuart Zicherman: Oh, it's totally.

333

Yeah.

334

No, it's, I mean, you're, the

writer is the showrunner and the

335

showrunner is the boss, you know?

336

And, um, I couldn't believe it.

337

You know, I couldn't believe that you're

involved in casting and you're involved

338

in, in, you're staying there on set.

339

They say cut and the actors look to the

monitors and the director turns around

340

and looks at you and like, are we good?

341

And you're like, we're good.

342

You know?

343

And like, I, I just, it was so, and so

to me, I, um, I did, I never wanted to

344

be like, I was sort of pigeonholed and

stuck in that, in that action movie

345

thing at the beginning of my career.

346

I really, once I got into TV and was

able to sort of write about people.

347

and write about, you know, human stories.

348

I just, whatever I did, I wanted to be

writing about that, you know, and it

349

didn't matter if it was like an hour

long, you know, um, intense drama, like

350

the Americans or, or Lights Out or,

or things like that, or like slightly

351

more like, you know, lighter fare.

352

Like this first show I did, uh, for

JJ was a show called Six Degrees.

353

Um, it was on ABC.

354

Um, You know, that had a big concept.

355

It was about these people.

356

And, and, um, and it didn't matter

like anywhere in my career, I went,

357

like, there are things I'm just

interested in writing about, you know,

358

Marc Preston: JJ Abrams is kind

of like big guns, I mean, a lost

359

guy, it's kind of an example.

360

It's about real human experiences

kind of shot through the lens of this.

361

Kind of sci fi vibe, you know,

362

Stuart Zicherman: he's the king of it.

363

I mean, he's incredible at it.

364

I mean, he really, you know, he, um,

really inspired me to like, you can, you

365

can pitch and sell and write big ideas

that, but approach them character first.

366

And he was able to do that, you know,

alias and lost and all those shows

367

were just, you know, Um, Felicity, like

they were just all, his early TV shows

368

were all like character for shows.

369

And, um, so I've been really lucky in my

career, I mean, by not sort of sticking to

370

one genre, I get invited to do different

things, you know, and, and I've been

371

lucky enough to work on, you know, um, you

know, um, Half hours and comedies and, uh,

372

things that have a lot more humor to them.

373

And then really, really dark

dramas and, and spy thrillers.

374

And I, I've just been able to sort of

move between all these different worlds,

375

but with the sort of commonality of

like, at their core, they're, they're,

376

they're about something very human.

377

Marc Preston: Coming up with a story all

on your own, or do you like the challenge?

378

Like when there is a existing story,

existing script, and they talk about

379

their script doctors, you know, for

whatever reason, it's just not jelling.

380

Do you like to kind of come in

there and kind of solve the puzzle?

381

And do you prefer that, or do you prefer

coming up with something organically from

382

scratch, or is there even a preference?

383

Stuart Zicherman: Um, it's

not only a preference.

384

There are two totally different things.

385

You know, when you come into something

that already exists, it's like, it's easy

386

to see it from the 10, 000 foot view.

387

You know, you can see where the

problems are and, and, um, it

388

doesn't feel like yours, you know?

389

Um, so, I mean, I do

always like coming up with.

390

Um, you know, my own stuff or stuff

that's inspired by something or, or

391

inspired by a piece of history or

book or article or, um, a podcast,

392

you know, um, cause then you can

make those things your own, you know,

393

Marc Preston: I play around with

screenwriting just for, to me, it's

394

kind of a cathartic, it's kind of fun.

395

It's just to just fart around, open up

the software and, you know, fart around

396

is a professional term by the way.

397

I don't know if you'll agree with that.

398

What is your favorite

book on screenwriting?

399

I think I've read the ones

with the save the cat.

400

I think I've, I've read a couple,

you know, but what is yours?

401

Do you think that you mostly ascribe to is

like, okay, that's kind of the process I'm

402

using for the most part, or is there one?

403

Stuart Zicherman: Well,

there isn't really one.

404

I mean, um, you know, the Sid

Field book was sort of the one

405

that everyone learned on, right?

406

Like with the three act

structure and all that.

407

Um, I always really loved reading

anything by William Goldman.

408

Um, you know, and, and because he

sort of espoused this thing that I've

409

come to learn over the years, which

is like, The three act structure is

410

innate in any good story, you know,

if you, you know, I always say like,

411

you can sit at a dinner table, right?

412

And watch someone tell a really

interesting story who's not a good

413

storyteller and be very bored by it.

414

Or you can watch someone who's a great

storyteller tell a not great story.

415

Um, and just be completely enraptured

by it because some people just have

416

an understanding of like structure.

417

They know how to hit the beats and they

know how to, you know, when to move on

418

and when to move on to the next thing

and not to get stuck in something.

419

And that's always like William

Goldman just had an uncanny ability.

420

To do that,

421

Marc Preston: when you're putting

something together, when you're writing

422

a screenplay, do you see in your

mind's eye, are you seeing it play out?

423

Do you see, in other words, uh, like

even, even the physicality of the, of

424

the actors or the, the, the, the, the

seat, the set, like, uh, like whenever

425

I write something, I always seem

to be a little heavy on explaining.

426

This is what it's looking like.

427

This is going to be

aesthetic of it, if you will.

428

Or do you, do you just focus just on

the words and the thought, you know,

429

just, I know it's a very general

question, but I was just kind of

430

Stuart Zicherman: curious.

431

It's a good question.

432

It's actually, um, I'll

answer that in two parts.

433

One is the early part of my career.

434

Um, I did kind of what you, what you're

talking about is I would overwrite things

435

that I over describe things, right?

436

I wanted the reader to really understand.

437

What I was talking about, right?

438

But as I've moved on my career,

you start making shows more.

439

You start writing them to make them right.

440

You start writing them thinking

you're going to make them.

441

So it's like, it's about giving

the essence of something.

442

You know, you're going to

end up finding location.

443

You're going to end up looking.

444

For locations, you know, you're

going to end up finding actors.

445

So what I try to do now more is give

the essence of what I'm trying to say

446

versus be super specific about it.

447

Um, cause that essence, you know, it's,

it's important is eventually going

448

to be a director and there's going to

be a location managers reading this.

449

for locations.

450

And there's going to be a, you

know, production designers reading

451

it to try to figure out like what

the sets are going to look like.

452

And like, even if it's super

specific, in my words, they're

453

going to make it their own anyway.

454

Marc Preston: A lot of chefs end up ending

up in the kitchen when a movie gets made.

455

Yeah.

456

Or a TV show.

457

Yeah.

458

And there was something I read once

to never cast it as you're writing it.

459

To me, it's like, that

almost happens organically.

460

Do you try to like, When you're

writing, do you have an actor in mind

461

just as sort of a placeholder, for

lack of a better way of putting it?

462

Does that make sense?

463

Stuart Zicherman: Yeah, yeah.

464

I always end up with like, sometimes

I'm writing for a specific actor, so

465

that's different, but when I'm not

writing for a specific actor, I get like

466

an image of the character in my head.

467

It may not be like an actual person,

but it's sort of like, I just, it's

468

this thing that I imagined in my head

and that's the character, that's their

469

voice and they're kind of like their

shadow, you know, um, what's funny is

470

that every single time, you know, I'm

done with something and it's going to

471

go into production and we go to casting.

472

Like the first week of casting is

always just so painful because you have

473

all these actors reading the words on

tape or in front of you and casting.

474

And you're like, it just doesn't

sound anything like you imagined.

475

Marc Preston: Yeah.

476

Stuart Zicherman: Um,

and then you see wild

477

Marc Preston: interpretations of it going

a different lot of different directions.

478

Yeah.

479

Stuart Zicherman: Then after about a

week you start seeing it in the way that

480

they're doing it, not in the way that

you remember doing it in your head for so

481

Marc Preston: long.

482

Stuart Zicherman: So.

483

Yeah, it's a process.

484

Marc Preston: Yeah, I remember

I was auditioning once.

485

There was a callback I was with.

486

It was for the TV show.

487

Um, oh shit, I forgot.

488

Um, it was, they shot it in New Orleans.

489

Oh gosh, it was, uh, um,

the guy that did The Wire.

490

They did the show based in New Orleans.

491

Oh yeah.

492

Tremé.

493

Tremé, Tremé, why can't,

uh, Couldn't remember that.

494

I lived down there for a long time.

495

I was auditioning for, uh, Tim

Robbins was directing that episode

496

and they had somebody from HBO

and they had the writer there.

497

I was more nervous.

498

The fact that writer is sitting up there.

499

Cause those are his words.

500

He wrote, they're looking at me.

501

I'm like, I'm more concerned about

the expressions on the writer's face.

502

I'm delivering the lines, you know,

cause this came from, that came from him.

503

You know,

504

Stuart Zicherman: I always say like,

what's amazing about the process, right.

505

Of, of writing shows or movies.

506

It's like, we.

507

Writers, we start with

a blank screen, right?

508

It's just, it's just us.

509

It's our, it's just me in it, right?

510

And for the whole time I'm writing

it, it's just the two of us.

511

But what happens is like, the second

that you take it off your computer and

512

start, like, you give it to a director,

then it becomes, the director is also,

513

the director is going home at night and

And telling their husband or wife, right.

514

Um, my, my new show is this right.

515

And then you start making it.

516

Now there's a whole crew and that

crew has given up, you know, 18

517

hours a day to work on the set.

518

And they're going home and say, my

new show is, you know, So by the

519

time like you're done, the actors

and the crew and everybody, there's

520

300 people who feel like it's their

show, no longer just your show.

521

And I love that.

522

Like, I love that.

523

Marc Preston: I was about to say,

there's got to be such a source of pride

524

that, you know, you created literally

something out of nothing, you know,

525

and now, now there's budgets behind it.

526

Now there are people putting food

on their table with is, it's one

527

of those things I think writers.

528

Uh, you know, when you start looking

at the order of the credits, me doing

529

narration a lot and whenever I see

that the narrator on a documentary

530

or a TV show comes as one of the last

credits, I'm like, that should be

531

the first, you know, 'cause that's

who you're with the whole time.

532

To me, I think the writer really,

it is their, it's their baby

533

and everybody came after that.

534

But that's just kind of my interpretation

of No, I think it's, you know,

535

kinda like what you're saying.

536

Stuart Zicherman: I think it's true.

537

And, and it is.

538

It is your baby.

539

But it becomes a lot of

other people's babies.

540

And then eventually, which is always

the hardest part is, you know, you give

541

it out to the world and then it becomes

the world's show, you know, or movie.

542

And, and so it's, it, in

reality, it's just, It just

543

isn't yours anymore, you know?

544

It was, yeah.

545

Marc Preston: I just think it's so funny

that, you know, you look at a, a, a film,

546

uh, and a lot of times you, you, you just,

now, if you're in the, in, in the industry

547

and you're like, you probably know who

the writer is, you know, but usually it's

548

the director or the big stars in it, and

the writer doesn't always get referenced.

549

And I'm like, wait a minute, this

thing didn't exist without them.

550

You know, that's, that's, you

know, they're kinda the quiet

551

heroes, you know, of the Hollywood.

552

If you look at your projects you've

done, is there anything you've done

553

in particular that was close to you

or close to a personal experience?

554

Uh, cause you mentioned you were, your

parents are divorced, but I thought the

555

movie adult child of divorce was such a

fun kind of concept, but not just that.

556

I just kind of saw that and I was

like, well, I was wondering, is there

557

anything that really kind of took a

big chunk of your own personal life?

558

And you put that into the script.

559

Was there anything you've

ever done like that?

560

Yeah.

561

Stuart Zicherman: Well, I mean,

obviously that, that movie ACOD was,

562

um, It was about my parents divorce.

563

I wanted to make something, um,

that was funny about divorce.

564

You know, I'd grown up on all these very,

very serious divorce movies and obviously

565

divorce is a very serious subject.

566

Marc Preston: Yeah.

567

Like Kramer versus Kramer.

568

When I was a kid, I was like,

wow, this is heavy, man.

569

Stuart Zicherman: Yeah.

570

They tried to like make, make some light

out of it and War of the Roses and,

571

um, you know, but there'd never really

been like a divorce comedy per se.

572

And I, my parents got divorced when I

was a kid and I thought it was You know,

573

it was sad and hard, but there were also

like moments of like insanity and levity.

574

And, um, and so I just, yeah, I, I

wanted to write something that, um, my

575

parents had, you know, there was a funny

situation in my parents divorce that I

576

thought could make for a good comedy.

577

So yeah, I mean, um, that was, that

was a very personal story, poured

578

a lot of my own life into that.

579

Marc Preston: Was your dad,

uh, was it Richard Jenkins?

580

Okay.

581

Was it, was it, was the casting

at all anywhere close to, uh,

582

uh, to your, to your real folks?

583

Stuart Zicherman: No, you know,

at a certain point you don't

584

want to offend your parents, so

you don't want to get too close.

585

Um, but you know, it also was a case

of, um, again, like these things

586

always, it's funny, I find even in

the most personal things I've worked

587

on, the Things I care about the most.

588

Um, they feel closest to home.

589

Like they take on a life

of their own, you know?

590

Yeah, no, Richard Jenkins and my

dad have very little in common.

591

Um, but Richard Jenkins

is a funny son of a gun,

592

Marc Preston: you know?

593

He's done so many wonderful things,

but when he played, uh, uh, something

594

about Mary, he was a therapist.

595

It was just so subtle and it wasn't

even a big part of the movie,

596

but it was just like, Just so

random, uh, but anyway, I'm sorry.

597

So I kind of miss those kind of

comedies, but in talking about things

598

that are close or personal and then

things that are scripted and things

599

that come from somewhere internal.

600

And here you are stepping into something

with, uh, American sports story.

601

That's nothing that you created.

602

That's real life.

603

I mean, what, what was that turn?

604

That had been kind of itching at you.

605

You're like, I want to do

something with this story.

606

Stuart Zicherman: Well, you know,

I think the last bunch of years,

607

I mean, everything I've worked

on last bunch of years has been

608

based on some underlying material.

609

I did sweet bitter, which

was based on a book.

610

Um, you know, uh, the street next

door, which was based on a podcast.

611

Um, you know, and then along came, you

know, uh, the Aaron Hernandez story.

612

Which was based on the, the, the

spotlight team at the Boston Globe

613

at these, this series of articles

about, um, the Hernandez story, which

614

Marc Preston: as a sports fan,

I thought I really knew when

615

they're a movie called spotlight.

616

So is that the same edit,

uh, uh, investigative team?

617

Oh, okay.

618

Stuart Zicherman: So they did,

they did the priest, uh, the priest

619

story that movie was made out of.

620

Um, and the spotlight team is this

constantly sort of like revolving group

621

of reporters at the globe that does

like deep dives into different stories.

622

And they did this deep dive

into the Hernandez story, which.

623

I think a lot of people, including

me, thought that they knew, right?

624

Like I followed that

story when it happened.

625

I'm a big sports fan.

626

I thought I knew the story.

627

It turned out, you know, the spotlight

team, you know, wrote about a lot of

628

elements, the story that really changed

the narrative for me and, um, you know,

629

When you ask about making it personal,

I think like you have to find a way

630

as a writer, you have to find a way.

631

into anything that you write,

any true story or anything that's

632

based on someone else's story.

633

You've got to find a way to

personally find your, you know, this

634

was a funny one for me, a really

challenging one, you know, because,

635

you know, it's about a murderer,

but also like a world class athlete.

636

with a drug addiction, um, you know,

who, you know, is, is half Puerto

637

Rican, half Italian, incredible

athlete, um, exploring a sexuality.

638

I, you know, and none of those things,

um, including an athlete, but I, I

639

did see in the story in, in, in, you

know, when I, when I, when I did, when

640

I did my deep dive into the material,

I saw that there was like a really

641

intense story about authenticity.

642

About a person trying to find

Their authenticity and like

643

figure out who they are and who

they're going to be in the world.

644

And, and that was something

I, I could relate to.

645

I thought other people could relate to.

646

And that was my approach

to the, to the material.

647

Marc Preston: Wasn't there a talk with

him that there was, uh, that he may

648

have also had a CTE or brain injury that

may have been, or am I imagining that?

649

I'm trying to remember.

650

Stuart Zicherman: That's

a big part of the show.

651

He, um, he died.

652

He had the largest, um, Um, he

had the worst case of CTE, um,

653

ever diagnosed in someone his age.

654

Um, they can only

diagnose CTE after death.

655

Um, and, um, unfortunately after he

committed suicide, you know, they

656

did a, um, an autopsy of his brain

and they, they discovered that he

657

had very, very severe, uh, CTE.

658

Marc Preston: The, that Will Smith movie

he did, uh, which it's, it seems like

659

there's still a discussion about it.

660

In fact, my speaking with my son about a

few months ago and we're talking about,

661

uh, that there is talk about, you know,

years down the road, will they be playing

662

football the same way they are now?

663

You look at some of these athletes

and you look at the way they're

664

impaired later on, but you look

at this guy who's really young.

665

Okay.

666

They, then they're saying, okay, this

actually starts in high school or even

667

before that, you know, it's not just

being hit, but they're playing football.

668

Quick stops, you know, and, and factoring

all that in, you know, did you feel

669

like extra responsibility because of,

uh, uh, you know, this, there, there

670

are people still alive, there's family,

there's people out there in here.

671

You are telling a story.

672

Was it kind of, did you feel extra

pressure to kind of get this for

673

lack of better way of putting it?

674

There's no right or wrong, but you

know, to get it right, you know?

675

Yeah,

676

Stuart Zicherman: no, I, I felt

a ton of responsibility, you

677

know, um, and the biggest thing,

most important thing to me was.

678

To never forgive

Hernandez for what he did.

679

You know, we're making a show

where we have to make this

680

character likeable, um, relatable.

681

We have to sort of like explain kind

of why we think he got to where,

682

you know, and did what he did.

683

But, um, I thought it was absolutely

paramount that we never forgive him.

684

We never let the audience forget that he

ended people's lives, and ruined families.

685

And, um, you know, we, You

know, my only thing was, is

686

like, he wasn't born that way.

687

He wasn't born a murderer.

688

He became a murderer.

689

And, um, so I felt incumbent upon us

to show this journey and show, you

690

know, cause I think that we sometimes

live in, in a, in a world where now,

691

where we get a little one note about

things, you know, he's, he's a monster.

692

Well, yeah, but he wasn't born a monster.

693

He became a monster.

694

And so like, let's look at why and how.

695

And, um, yeah.

696

you know, and by the same token,

you don't want to blame, you

697

know, all of it on any one thing.

698

You know, you don't want to say that,

um, he did it because of the CTE,

699

because there are people who had CTE

and did not commit murder, you know?

700

Yeah.

701

Marc Preston: Right.

702

Right.

703

Stuart Zicherman: Um, so, you know, I

think we just wanted to introduce all

704

these elements, you know, the, the drug

use, the sexuality, the violence, um,

705

you know, the, the, the brain injury

stuff and, um, and leave it to the

706

audience to sort of like, You know,

put it all together to understand

707

that he lived a very complicated life.

708

But again, never forgive

him for what he did.

709

Marc Preston: Being

the showrunner as well.

710

I mean, this, you really kind of taking

on the, not just writing it, but you're

711

also making, you know, big decisions,

you know, was the casting, you know,

712

something that would cause, you know,

considering you're, you're doing a biopic

713

basically, and, and, and was the casting.

714

Hard at all.

715

Or what did it, did you like when you,

when you kind of landed on, you know, the

716

character's like, okay, that's the one,

that's the one, but just what's, what

717

was the casting process like for this?

718

Stuart Zicherman: No, the casting is

really hard for something like this.

719

You know, I remember writing the

pilot and thinking like, Oh man,

720

it's never going to get made.

721

I'm never going to find a guy to

play her in her dad does, you know?

722

Uh, but we did, we found this

incredible, You know, guy who, who

723

really, you know, you know, when you

say we're making a biopic, we're, we're

724

making, we're interpreting the story.

725

So we're not looking necessarily

for somebody who looks exactly like

726

him or looking for somebody who can

sort of like, you know, inhabit the

727

character and, and bring to life

all the things in the scripts that

728

were, you know, that we're writing.

729

So.

730

Um, but it's a challenging, it's a

challenging world and challenging

731

show because, you know, you need a

guy who, um, you know, for Aaron in

732

particular, you need a guy who is

big and strong and tough and mean and

733

scary, but also like this particular

character was goofy and funny and silly.

734

And um, you know, you're, you're looking

for somebody that can, can take all that

735

on, you know, but the same token, you're

also casting a lot of well known people.

736

So it was tricky with Belichick.

737

Urban Meyer, you know, Rob Gronkowski,

like all these people that we

738

all know really, really well as

sports fans, um, you know, you,

739

you don't want to do caricatures.

740

That's my thing.

741

It's like, again, we're trying to sort

of like tell the story, but you don't

742

want, I would tell the actors too.

743

You don't want the actors to, I was like,

don't, you know, tell our Belichick actor,

744

don't sit and watch hours and hours of

Belichick and trying to imitate him.

745

Like, make him your own.

746

It was hard, but it was a hard challenge.

747

It was really fun.

748

Marc Preston: I spoke with James Comey,

you know, FBI director, and then Jeff

749

Daniels, who's a phenomenal actor.

750

And, you know, And we were speaking

and he and Jeff Daniels did

751

not have really been dialogue.

752

I mean, Jeff kind of came out of, he kind

of created on his own interpretation.

753

And I think that that's,

it's two routes you could go.

754

I mean, one could almost come off as a

caricature, you know, and James Comey is

755

like the six foot six ridiculous tall guy.

756

And here's Jeff Daniels, you know,

this physically, they're not going to

757

be the same, but it's, it's, it's the

interpretation that makes it interesting.

758

I think, you know, the, the, the, Nobody

wants an imitation, you know, but in

759

doing this, did you have all the source

material there, you know, from the

760

Boston Globe or what, or, or did you go

out and do some interviews and sit down

761

with different, uh, different people

who were component parts of the story?

762

Stuart Zicherman: We didn't talk to

anybody that was actually in the story.

763

Um, you know, we, um, we did

have, we did have all the Boston

764

Globe stuff, the spotlight team.

765

Um, particularly the reporters who

had reported on the story were so

766

giving with their time and their,

and their information, and they

767

would come into the writer's room and

they would answer questions for us.

768

And that was great.

769

And then at the same time, you know,

there were, there were some things

770

that we needed to learn more about.

771

Um, and we wanted to do it

without necessarily reaching out

772

to the real people in the story.

773

So, you know, like for example,

I really wanted to portray.

774

what it would be like, you know,

the sort of like toxicity of a male,

775

like of a locker room at the time.

776

The University of Florida locker

room was known to be like, you know,

777

toxic, homophobic, um, place, you

know, with a bunch of characters.

778

And I'd never been in a, in a,

You know, in a college football

779

locker room or pro locker room.

780

So we ended up bringing on a writer

on the show who's a professional

781

football player and aspiring writer.

782

And he's been in locker rooms.

783

So it's like, you know,

it's that kind of thing.

784

Like you just trying to gain

experience of the, of this world.

785

Marc Preston: It seems like a very pivotal

piece of the story, you know, you have one

786

guy who's living his own truth internally,

externally, whatever, and you know,

787

where that may not play very well in the

machismo of the, uh, of the locker room.

788

Yeah.

789

Once this was released, did you get any

feedback from anybody who was a part of

790

the story who, you know, they're like,

yeah, this, this, this was on point.

791

Have you spoken with anybody

who was a part of the story

792

as subsequent to the release?

793

Stuart Zicherman: No, I mean, you

know, it's, it's again, like, um,

794

you're not going to get like, you

know, Tom Brady commenting on, uh, you

795

know, um, I did have a cool moment.

796

Uh, we were shooting some of the football

down in Florida and, um, Uh, there was

797

a guy who played, um, who played, we had

all these former football players and,

798

you know, that were pretending to be

our football players and, and there was

799

a, uh, a guy, uh, who had played on the

University of Florida team with Hernandez.

800

Chris Rainey, he came over and introduced

himself and told me about like what it was

801

like to be in the locker room with him.

802

And that was really cool.

803

Um, you know, just getting to talk to, I

talked to a few reporters, um, who were in

804

the locker room with the Patriots and at

that time, um, guys who covered Hernandez.

805

Um, and yeah, it's been nice to hear,

like, you know, um, you know, if

806

you watch the series one to 10, um,

you know, I think people are seeing,

807

uh, the complexity and, and, and.

808

Um, from the few people that,

um, again, most of all it's,

809

it's the Boston Globe reporters.

810

I, they're the ones I

really wanted to make proud.

811

They feel like we've done a really

good job at sort of like, you know,

812

portraying the complexity that was

Hernandez's life in a way that,

813

that may have been really real.

814

You know, you don't know when

you go into a story like this,

815

like sadly Hernandez is, is gone.

816

Um, we can't reach out to him, you know,

and so much of everything that's ever

817

been told about his story is speculative.

818

You know, no one really knows.

819

It's been good feedback for us to hear

back, like from people who are around him

820

and that world and know the story that,

um, our show feels like it's in the zone.

821

Marc Preston: No pun intended.

822

Of course.

823

Yes.

824

No, uh, the, so has this whetted

your appetite at all for doing any

825

other kind of projects like this?

826

Yeah.

827

Taking not just athletes, but.

828

Any other historical stories, figures,

things like that, and turn those into,

829

uh, be it a television or film project,

or is this kind of like, okay, this

830

is your foray into doing this done?

831

Stuart Zicherman: No, no.

832

I've always been really

interested in true stories.

833

Um, and I've always been interested

in sort of like even historical fear.

834

I mean, um, I made a

pilot about 10 years ago.

835

That's still one of my favorite

things I ever worked on.

836

Um, it didn't get picked up

the series, but I made a pilot.

837

about Casanova, the real Casanova.

838

Um, you know, I've done this incredibly

bizarre and interesting part of his life

839

that I didn't know about the people that

know about and wrote a show about that.

840

You know, um, I recently worked

on a project, um, about Um, a

841

referee, like, you know, they got

caught up in a gambling scandal.

842

I, I, you know, I worked on the shrink

next door, which was a true story.

843

They're challenging, but I do enjoy

bringing true stories to life.

844

Marc Preston: Kind of next on your,

I don't see next on your agenda,

845

but what things are you kind of,

uh, cooking up in the kitchen right

846

now that you feel like, you know,

the next, the next thing for you?

847

Stuart Zicherman: Um, I am

working on, I just wrote a legal

848

show, my first ever legal show.

849

I've never done that before.

850

So I'm excited about that.

851

Now I'm working on a really cool

show based on a book, um, that a

852

journalist wrote, um, called spooked.

853

Which is set in the world of private

espionage, the corporate espionage.

854

Marc Preston: Um, well,

that's interesting.

855

Yeah.

856

Especially like the tech world

that like, because you got to

857

know a lot of that's going on.

858

Yeah,

859

Stuart Zicherman: no, I

mean, and it's interesting.

860

The book is kind of like set in

861

It's funny.

862

You brought up James Comey.

863

Like, uh, he's, he's in that story, you

know, um, just all this sort of like.

864

Private spies that were being hired to

dig up and disseminate information around

865

the 2016 election kind of started a new

era of, of, um, spying where anyone, you

866

know, you have to be a spy to go into it.

867

You know, you could be a

868

Marc Preston: former

869

Stuart Zicherman: journalist

or a former anything.

870

Um, and it's kind of the wild west

now where, you know, in a world

871

where information is power, you know,

disseminating information, um, is

872

never, you know, and, and creating the

narrative has never been more important.

873

Um, so yeah, I'm doing a show, um,

actually with my old, uh, Uh, well

874

pal Matthew Reese from the Americans,

um, that's set in that world.

875

Marc Preston: You know, that's

one show that is on my list.

876

I call it my list.

877

The things that with a plethora of

great stuff out there, uh, I still

878

haven't had a chance to watch a

lot of stuff, but the Americans is

879

on the list, uh, without a doubt.

880

Oh, absolutely.

881

I haven't watched game of thrones.

882

I still, there's things I'd want

to watch, but there's so, you know,

883

plus I will say I have a three.

884

Well, there are two of them are

teenagers and we're got 20, One 20

885

and almost 19 year old, our TV diet

was based upon things like, uh, we

886

power watch during COVID lost things

that my kids were really into.

887

And it's kind of my time.

888

Now my kids are out there in college.

889

Now it's my time to catch up

on things like the Americans.

890

And, uh, but what are you watching?

891

Right.

892

And what, what are the, what are, who

are the writers and what are the projects

893

right now that, that grab your attention?

894

Who are you enjoying watching right now?

895

Stuart Zicherman: Um, I'm enjoying,

um, I'm really enjoying this flavor.

896

I'm enjoying, like everybody else,

I'm enjoying Nobody Wants This.

897

You know, I think it's, it's

great that the romantic comedy

898

genre is coming back to TV.

899

I'm also enjoying, I have a 12

year old son and I'm in the process

900

of showing him all the movies.

901

That I loved throughout my life,

you know, so I'm, I'm having the

902

best time showing him this weekend.

903

We watched stand by me.

904

Marc Preston: Yeah.

905

I said something the other day.

906

It's like, uh, one of my kids

is off the cuff to sit out.

907

Captain.

908

My captain is like, Holy shit.

909

They still haven't seen dead poet society.

910

Got it.

911

I mean, that's just like, you

have to, you know, school ties.

912

That's another one is, you know, as a

Jewish kid, you know, that was such a,

913

It kind of goes back to that, that thing

when you were talking about what, what

914

college, what you thought college would

be, or like the private school, you

915

know, these, you know, there, there's

a library out there and I'm, my, my

916

kids are down for checking stuff out.

917

Stuart Zicherman: After you, um, you

know, after having spent the last 25

918

years writing movies and shows and to go

back and watch the things that inspired

919

you, but you didn't know anything about

business, like watching stand by me.

920

I mean, it's a, Well, I mean as a writer

I can literally sit and watch it and

921

say there's a flawless script It is a

perfect movie and like it gets to the

922

end and I just in tears my eyes Like I

couldn't believe I looked over at my son.

923

He was like, yeah, that's good.

924

I'm like, no, dude, that's great

925

Marc Preston: And Reiner his ability

to direct, you know to put that

926

together with you think of all the

genres that he's played Played with,

927

you know, like romantic comedy.

928

We'll tell you before we get going,

I always kind of throw something out.

929

I call my seven questions.

930

It's a little extra fun

on the back end of a chat.

931

A Jewish kid.

932

I got to ask this question.

933

Uh, what is your favorite comfort food?

934

Stuart Zicherman: Favorite comfort food?

935

Um, it's not that unique.

936

I love French fries.

937

I will eat any kind of French fry.

938

I love French fries, especially

like diner French fries.

939

I think the really thick.

940

Marc Preston: Yeah, yeah,

941

Stuart Zicherman: yeah.

942

Potato cut French fries.

943

That's like, that's overdoing it.

944

But like the thick, like New York

diner, Greek diner French fries.

945

I've convinced myself that, um,

since potatoes are kind of vegetables

946

that it's kind of, it, it can't

be that unhealthy French fries.

947

Marc Preston: You and I

went to the same school.

948

Yeah.

949

Okay.

950

They were, they were

going to sound like that.

951

I like that thought, but your second

person had mentioned French fries.

952

Just, uh, I can't remember

who it was said it before.

953

I'm like, you know, when they're

good, but when they're bad, when

954

they're not good French fries,

it's a whole different thing.

955

It's like this floppy.

956

Yeah.

957

Yeah.

958

Um, next question.

959

If you're going to sit down, three

people, uh, talk story for a few hours,

960

uh, living or not, who would you like

to sit down with three people to, to

961

have some coffee and just talk with?

962

Stuart Zicherman: Oh, man.

963

Man, that's a great one.

964

Um, uh, William Goldman for sure.

965

I, I, I am a gigantic William Goldman fan.

966

Um, um, I would love to sit down like,

like with one of the great Beatnik, um,

967

musicians, you know, like I, I'd love

to say Bob Dylan, but I think he would

968

be kind of obscure and weird to talk to.

969

So I'm going to say like, Someone like

Phil Oakes, um, or someone, um, or

970

even like a Harry cheap, like someone's

like a great musical storyteller.

971

Um, I love, I love music and I love the

way that stories are told through music.

972

Yeah.

973

And whoever kind of wrote the Bible,

I've been, I've been going to Torah

974

study recently, you'll appreciate this

and just, you know, the rabbi continues

975

to like, sort of like really, really,

um, Hit hard, uh, the narrative of

976

the Bible and how it, like who it

was written by when it was written.

977

And I'm always like,

it's just a great story.

978

A lot of crazy

979

Marc Preston: storytelling in the Bible.

980

To be able to get in discussions with

people about their interpretation,

981

why, why they think it was, you know,

you know, they kind of break it down

982

almost not as much of as a theological,

but more of a historical text.

983

What did it say to the people of the time?

984

You know, that, that does

seem really intriguing to me.

985

Stuart Zicherman: I would just

love to know, like whoever wrote

986

the Bible, did they know that this

many people were going Watch it.

987

Marc Preston: This many

stories and interpretations

988

and, you know, and holidays.

989

Yeah.

990

Um, now if we're going to go back

when you were a kid, uh, you know,

991

watching movies, TV, who was your

first celebrity crush as a kid?

992

Stuart Zicherman: I mean, celebrity crush.

993

Well, I mean, I loved all the

Charlie's angels, all three of them.

994

And I love them for different reasons.

995

Um, but I'd have to say, Um,

Julie from the love boat was

996

like my, she was my crush.

997

She was so helpful.

998

She always made people's problems go away.

999

Marc Preston: Zipping around, but

with a little clipboard, you know,

00:48:22,985 --> 00:48:23,785

she always had something going.

00:48:23,835 --> 00:48:24,055

Yeah.

00:48:24,155 --> 00:48:24,304

Just

00:48:24,304 --> 00:48:25,514

Stuart Zicherman: always make

people's problems go away.

00:48:25,514 --> 00:48:30,165

She never like complained and, and,

um, she always like, you know, kind of

00:48:30,185 --> 00:48:31,855

stupid men running around, around her.

00:48:31,855 --> 00:48:32,225

And she just.

00:48:32,830 --> 00:48:37,070

It seemed to be in charge and, um,

she's so pretty and it's like Julie.

00:48:37,130 --> 00:48:37,480

Yeah.

00:48:37,730 --> 00:48:38,140

Marc Preston: Very good.

00:48:38,190 --> 00:48:39,040

I'm I'm there with you.

00:48:39,130 --> 00:48:40,080

We talked about music.

00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:43,230

Let's say going to be living on an exotic

Island, somewhere you really want to be.

00:48:43,230 --> 00:48:45,419

It's going to be a nice resort,

but no streaming, no internet.

00:48:45,419 --> 00:48:49,270

So if you want to listen to some music,

you're going to be there for a full year.

00:48:49,339 --> 00:48:53,120

You need to bring a DVD for

a movie and a CD, an album.

00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:56,950

It can be a box set even, but that's

all you have to listen to and watch.

00:48:56,980 --> 00:49:00,340

What would that DVD and what would that

CD be for that full year on that Island?

00:49:00,615 --> 00:49:02,235

Stuart Zicherman: Well, I was

thinking about this recently because

00:49:02,235 --> 00:49:10,035

I rewatched, um, uh, that two part

Scorsese documentary about Bob Dylan,

00:49:10,544 --> 00:49:14,874

um, that had the two parts that were

like, you know, Dylan pre electric and

00:49:14,874 --> 00:49:21,405

then Dylan post electric and, um, and,

and, um, I love it about the history of

00:49:21,615 --> 00:49:25,335

folk music and then, um, sort of like

the way he hooked up with the band.

00:49:25,785 --> 00:49:30,065

Um, and then have the band, the

tour of Europe and, and, you know,

00:49:30,575 --> 00:49:32,205

all the relationships in the movie.

00:49:32,205 --> 00:49:37,935

And, and, um, it's a great movie,

like a great dramatic thrust and

00:49:37,935 --> 00:49:39,745

also just the most incredible music.

00:49:40,384 --> 00:49:41,265

So that was a great one.

00:49:41,265 --> 00:49:44,945

I think it's called don't look back,

but that was, that's a great one.

00:49:45,215 --> 00:49:46,485

I'm still really like lately.

00:49:46,485 --> 00:49:50,080

Like Really falling back in love

with, um, Pink Floyd albums.

00:49:50,590 --> 00:49:56,619

Um, because they are just so

rich and, um, I can listen to

00:49:56,620 --> 00:50:00,029

them over and over and constantly

finding different things in them

00:50:00,689 --> 00:50:03,700

Marc Preston: and get a good box set

of them, uh, Pink Floyd and bring that

00:50:03,700 --> 00:50:07,720

with you now, last couple of questions

here, if you were to say from the time

00:50:07,720 --> 00:50:10,490

you get up in the morning till the

time you go to bed, the component parts

00:50:10,500 --> 00:50:14,350

of a perfect day for you, what would

those component parts of perfect day

00:50:14,350 --> 00:50:17,880

be to say this day was perfect for me.

00:50:18,860 --> 00:50:19,250

Stuart Zicherman: Oh man.

00:50:19,250 --> 00:50:22,370

Well, it would start with like

my kids, you know, being really

00:50:22,370 --> 00:50:23,360

nice to me in the morning.

00:50:24,950 --> 00:50:28,340

. Um, uh, it would start

with some kind of exercise.

00:50:28,580 --> 00:50:32,420

Um, I'd like to do a little bit

of writing, but not that much.

00:50:32,570 --> 00:50:36,460

Uh, 'cause you know, two or three hours

is usually my sweet spot and I'd like

00:50:36,460 --> 00:50:37,660

to spend the rest of the day fishing.

00:50:37,660 --> 00:50:38,890

I really like fishing.

00:50:38,985 --> 00:50:39,405

Really?

00:50:39,515 --> 00:50:39,805

Okay.

00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:41,500

? Yeah.

00:50:41,835 --> 00:50:47,685

Um, I like fly fishing and I, uh,

like being on a river or, uh, piece

00:50:47,685 --> 00:50:52,095

of water, uh, with my fly rod,

maybe in a kayak and, uh, yeah.

00:50:52,255 --> 00:50:52,855

Marc Preston: Very cool.

00:50:52,865 --> 00:50:53,465

Very cool.

00:50:54,085 --> 00:50:57,585

Now, if somebody said, listen, you

can't do this for a living, this is

00:50:57,585 --> 00:50:59,945

not something that's going to be able

to put a roof over your head anymore.

00:50:59,965 --> 00:51:01,865

What would then be your next choice?

00:51:01,885 --> 00:51:03,475

What would you be doing besides this?

00:51:03,755 --> 00:51:08,495

Stuart Zicherman: Um, I would love to

have studied or be studying anthropology.

00:51:09,090 --> 00:51:12,660

Uh, be teaching anthropology or, or being

out in the world, doing whatever, like

00:51:12,660 --> 00:51:14,180

someone who is an anthropologist does.

00:51:14,190 --> 00:51:16,300

Although I rarely see them

do anything but teach.

00:51:16,630 --> 00:51:21,360

Um, but like, I just love, I love travel

and I love people and the study of people.

00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:26,359

And, um, uh, so I would like to, I

would love to be an anthropologist.

00:51:27,195 --> 00:51:30,625

Marc Preston: Yeah, to me, uh, like

Anthony Bourdain was sort of a quasi

00:51:30,855 --> 00:51:34,075

anthropology, you know, be able to

travel and eat that, that to me would

00:51:34,145 --> 00:51:36,384

be like, why does this culture do this?

00:51:36,384 --> 00:51:38,555

This completely submit to

whatever culture you're in.

00:51:38,735 --> 00:51:39,374

That would be right.

00:51:39,575 --> 00:51:41,935

Stuart Zicherman: But I really

like, I really like I'm the opposite

00:51:41,935 --> 00:51:45,395

of like whatever colonialist

was like, I love going places.

00:51:45,685 --> 00:51:48,435

And like sinking into the

culture and whatever they do.

00:51:49,055 --> 00:51:51,435

Um, and just pretending I'm not me.

00:51:51,505 --> 00:51:53,945

Um, yeah, I would love that.

00:51:54,605 --> 00:51:55,035

Marc Preston: Very cool.

00:51:55,045 --> 00:51:57,735

Well, the last question I got for

you, let's say you got that DeLorean.

00:51:57,745 --> 00:51:59,924

You can travel back to

when you were 16 years old.

00:51:59,924 --> 00:52:02,624

You got a piece of advice

to make in that moment.

00:52:02,624 --> 00:52:06,445

You're in, make that moment a little

bit better, easier, whatever, or maybe

00:52:06,445 --> 00:52:07,665

put you on a little bit different path.

00:52:07,685 --> 00:52:10,175

What would that advice

to 16 year old you be?

00:52:10,905 --> 00:52:13,315

Stuart Zicherman: Oh man, just be patient.

00:52:13,565 --> 00:52:18,175

You know, like, I mean, so much like

growing up and being hungry for things

00:52:18,175 --> 00:52:23,235

and wanting to, you know, like I wanted

to travel and meet people and learn

00:52:23,235 --> 00:52:27,595

things and go places and be a Hollywood

writer and I wanted to do so many

00:52:27,615 --> 00:52:33,670

things and you, and, um, slowing down

to like, you know, Because once you

00:52:33,790 --> 00:52:37,240

start to like do those things right,

you can't go back to not having them.

00:52:37,570 --> 00:52:38,110

And it's like, yeah.

00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:40,840

Marc Preston: You know, just the, well,

isn't that part of our Jewish DNA where

00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:42,850

you kind of fuss over like, I wanna

make sure I'm doing the right thing.

00:52:42,850 --> 00:52:42,851

Yeah.

00:52:42,856 --> 00:52:43,480

Am I doing the thing?

00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:44,560

Am I doing, you know, it's

00:52:44,765 --> 00:52:47,020

Stuart Zicherman: no, that's exact

that, that's a better way to put it.

00:52:47,020 --> 00:52:48,280

It's like there is no right thing.

00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:51,100

Like you're gonna, yeah,

you're gonna go the wrong way.

00:52:51,370 --> 00:52:52,360

You're gonna make mistakes.

00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:54,430

You're gonna like, it's

all part of the journey.

00:52:54,790 --> 00:53:00,090

Yeah, I just, I, but I think that is just

such an intrinsic part of youth, you know?

00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:01,990

Marc Preston: Yeah, if you're not,

if you're afraid of messing up,

00:53:01,990 --> 00:53:02,820

you're not playing the game right.

00:53:03,140 --> 00:53:05,339

You know, I think you gotta, you

gotta make mistakes, fall on your

00:53:05,339 --> 00:53:06,840

face, learn some things, you know?

00:53:06,910 --> 00:53:09,829

Well, my friend, I, I really enjoyed the,

the, the opportunity to sit down with you.

00:53:09,829 --> 00:53:10,479

It's such a pleasure.

00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:11,860

I appreciate you sharing

your time with me.

00:53:11,860 --> 00:53:15,619

You're obviously a busy, busy guy and,

uh, hopefully, uh, we'll have a chance

00:53:15,619 --> 00:53:16,689

to catch up down the line, my friend.

00:53:16,950 --> 00:53:18,260

Stuart Zicherman: I really

appreciate you having me.

00:53:18,260 --> 00:53:18,820

I really do.

00:53:20,785 --> 00:53:23,045

Marc Preston: All right, there

you go, Stuart Zicherman.

00:53:23,395 --> 00:53:28,325

A talented guy making all kinds

of TV, film, just a cool creative.

00:53:28,605 --> 00:53:31,474

It's kind of cool to sit down and

talk to the folks who are behind

00:53:31,474 --> 00:53:33,545

the camera on the creative side.

00:53:33,735 --> 00:53:36,784

Now, I'm going to go and jump on

out of here because as I take a

00:53:36,784 --> 00:53:41,075

peek behind me, I'm seeing Ranger,

our golden retriever puppy.

00:53:41,075 --> 00:53:45,000

I say puppy, he's like, He's like, Eight

months old now, uh, somebody's mowing the

00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:48,850

yard outside and he is deeply intrigued

and wants to go out and see what's up.

00:53:48,850 --> 00:53:51,680

So I'm going to take him out,

but, uh, before I get going, I

00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:56,439

want to remind you, please go to

story and craft pod slash rate.

00:53:56,459 --> 00:53:58,600

Once again, story and craft pod.

00:53:59,180 --> 00:54:02,750

com slash rate, uh, give you

an opportunity to drop a little

00:54:02,750 --> 00:54:04,270

review, if you will, of the show.

00:54:04,450 --> 00:54:08,030

I greatly appreciate those

drop some stars as well.

00:54:08,060 --> 00:54:09,490

I mean stars are great.

00:54:09,530 --> 00:54:13,540

I mean, it's kind of it's kind of

podcaster fuel You know, it's a way

00:54:13,540 --> 00:54:17,120

to kind of throw a little bit of love

our way Also, make sure to follow the

00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:20,789

show, uh, you get notified every time

there's a new episode if you follow So

00:54:20,789 --> 00:54:24,159

please do if you would uh now i'm gonna

go jump on out of here as I mentioned

00:54:24,170 --> 00:54:26,930

because the pooch Well, it's patrol time.

00:54:27,020 --> 00:54:30,810

We got to get on out I'm going to be back

soon with another episode, so I'm going

00:54:30,810 --> 00:54:34,820

to talk to you then, and I want to thank

you again for making what I got going

00:54:34,820 --> 00:54:36,840

on part of whatever you've got going on.

00:54:37,050 --> 00:54:41,560

So enjoy the rest of your day, or

evening, or whatever you have going on.

00:54:41,729 --> 00:54:44,550

I'll catch you next time,

right here on Story Craft.

00:54:44,550 --> 00:54:47,160

Announcer: That's it for

this episode of Story Craft.

00:54:47,390 --> 00:54:51,770

Join Marc next week for more

conversation, right here on Story Craft.

00:54:52,220 --> 00:54:56,090

Story Craft is a presentation of

Marc Preston Productions, LLC.

00:54:57,075 --> 00:54:59,425

Executive producer is Marc Preston.

00:54:59,805 --> 00:55:02,235

Associate producer is Zachary Holden.

00:55:02,595 --> 00:55:05,904

Please rate and review Story

Craft on Apple Podcasts.

00:55:06,175 --> 00:55:10,614

Don't forget to subscribe to the

show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

00:55:10,615 --> 00:55:12,045

or your favorite podcast app.

00:55:12,305 --> 00:55:15,234

You can subscribe to show

updates and stay in the know.

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Just head to storyandcraftpod.

00:55:17,705 --> 00:55:19,515

com and sign up for the newsletter.

00:55:20,095 --> 00:55:20,835

I'm Emma Dylan.

00:55:21,545 --> 00:55:22,205

See you next time.

00:55:22,375 --> 00:55:24,785

And remember, keep telling your story.

00:55:25,510 --> 00:55:26,450

You