Stuart Zicherman:
00:00:00
Watching Stand By Me, I mean, it is a perfect movie.
2
:
00:00:03
And like, it gets to the end
and I just, in tears in my eyes,
3
:
00:00:06
like, I couldn't believe it.
4
:
00:00:07
I looked over at my son, he
was like, yeah, that's good.
5
:
00:00:09
I'm like, no, dude, that was great.
6
:
00:00:12
You know?
7
:
00:00:14
Announcer: Welcome to Story Craft.
8
:
00:00:16
Now, here's your host, Marc Preston.
9
:
00:00:18
Marc Preston: All right, here we
go, another episode of Story Craft.
10
:
00:00:22
Welcome.
11
:
00:00:23
How are you?
12
:
00:00:23
I'm Marc Preston.
13
:
00:00:25
If this is your very first stop by
the show, I want to welcome you.
14
:
00:00:28
Thank you very much for
just checking it out.
15
:
00:00:31
Today, sitting down with Stuart Zicherman.
16
:
00:00:33
Now, Stuart's an executive producer.
17
:
00:00:35
He is a showrunner, writer, director.
18
:
00:00:38
He's done a lot of work.
19
:
00:00:39
Projects over the years, you
may know of like Electra also
20
:
00:00:43
did some writing on the show.
21
:
00:00:44
The shrink next door with
Paul Rudd and Will Ferrell.
22
:
00:00:48
He also did the Americans
on the FX network.
23
:
00:00:50
The new project he's got out is
called American Sports Story about
24
:
00:00:55
the football player Aaron Hernandez.
25
:
00:00:57
It is currently on Hulu.
26
:
00:01:00
Very talented guy when it comes
to just the Sheer breadth of work.
27
:
00:01:03
He's done.
28
:
00:01:04
Uh, like I said, he's producing, writing,
directing, very talented for sure.
29
:
00:01:09
Now, if you would do me a favor, I
always ask this humble, this humble
30
:
00:01:13
request is to pop on over to story
and craft pod forward slash rate.
31
:
00:01:20
Do we say forward slash or just slash?
32
:
00:01:23
Let me just do slash.
33
:
00:01:24
Let's see how that sounds.
34
:
00:01:25
Storyandcraftpod.
35
:
00:01:27
com slash rate.
36
:
00:01:29
Okay.
37
:
00:01:29
That feels good.
38
:
00:01:30
We'll, we'll do that.
39
:
00:01:31
What you do there is just kind of
hop on over to your favorite podcast
40
:
00:01:35
app and rate the episode, rate
the show, uh, followed the show.
41
:
00:01:38
If you would, that way you get notified
every time we have a new episode and
42
:
00:01:42
also leave a review, if you would drop a
little note, if you enjoyed the episode.
43
:
00:01:46
Just pop a note in there.
44
:
00:01:47
It says, Hey, cool stuff, little
emoji or whatever you want to
45
:
00:01:51
do, whatever feels right for you.
46
:
00:01:52
It's a little bit of love.
47
:
00:01:53
I appreciate and gives a folks an
opportunity to discover story and craft.
48
:
00:01:59
Also, the website, as I
mentioned, story and craft.
49
:
00:02:02
Pod that's where you can find out
everything about the show who's been on
50
:
00:02:06
past guests, of course Past episodes and
uh, you can also send me a note You can
51
:
00:02:12
drop me a line if you would like leave a
voicemail you can do that also and just
52
:
00:02:17
You know, it's a way for us to connect.
53
:
00:02:19
All right, uh, let's go
and jump right into it.
54
:
00:02:21
Today is Stuart Zicherman day
right here on Story and Craft.
55
:
00:02:28
Where are you joining me from today?
56
:
00:02:29
Stuart Zicherman: Uh, I'm in New York.
57
:
00:02:30
I'm in Rye, New York.
58
:
00:02:31
Marc Preston: Rye, New York.
59
:
00:02:32
Where is that?
60
:
00:02:33
It's just outside the city.
61
:
00:02:34
I, uh, Jewish kid from Dallas and We
had a couple of good delis there, uh,
62
:
00:02:39
but now I'm living on an island in South
Texas and, uh, not a deli for, uh, I
63
:
00:02:44
don't, I think I'd have to drive to
Austin to find a decent deli, you know?
64
:
00:02:47
So it's kind of a, my heart breaks
a little bit, so I'm very envious
65
:
00:02:50
that you got easy access to
Katz's and all that kind of jazz.
66
:
00:02:53
So, um, I'm glad we had
a chance to connect.
67
:
00:02:56
I was taking a look and just kind of
cursory, you know, preparing, noticed,
68
:
00:03:00
uh, the diversity of stuff you've done
is, there doesn't seem to be a kind of a
69
:
00:03:05
common thread between the type of genre.
70
:
00:03:07
So you're not really kind of locked
into doing documentary or whatever.
71
:
00:03:11
Action type stuff.
72
:
00:03:12
So what was like kind of
the beginning for you?
73
:
00:03:15
Were you originally a writer or were
you originally a screenplay writer?
74
:
00:03:18
And what was kind of the Genesis, uh, to
kind of gotcha where you are right now?
75
:
00:03:22
Stuart Zicherman: Well, yeah, I
mean, um, I've always wanted to
76
:
00:03:24
be a writer, you know, at the
beginning of your career, you're just
77
:
00:03:27
trying to find a way in, you know?
78
:
00:03:29
Um, and I, you know,
I was, uh, it's funny.
79
:
00:03:34
I was, I got into film school at USC grad
school and, um, you know, I You know,
80
:
00:03:38
it started to sort of get some writing
under my belt, you know, for school.
81
:
00:03:41
But, um, uh, but when I graduated from
film school, I, I had no money and
82
:
00:03:49
I, I really needed to figure out a
way to go, you know, make some money.
83
:
00:03:52
So I, I got a job as a PA
on a movie in New York.
84
:
00:03:56
Um, uh, I said originally I actually got
a job cause I knew how to work a video
85
:
00:04:02
camera to work the video camera for the
casting department, but it was this big,
86
:
00:04:06
big casting director named John Lyons.
87
:
00:04:08
who um, had done a bunch
of the cone brother movies.
88
:
00:04:11
And I was just so excited to be in
any room getting paid to do anything.
89
:
00:04:15
You know, he was casting a new movie
called city hall and it was, uh, Al
90
:
00:04:19
Pacino, John Cusack, Bridget Fonda
movie directed by Harold Becker.
91
:
00:04:24
And so I'm in these casting sessions and,
and Harold Becker is like sitting there,
92
:
00:04:29
you know, he's, he's just sitting there.
93
:
00:04:30
When the casting was over, he's
like, you seem like a smart guy.
94
:
00:04:33
You know, you should, uh, you should
be my assistant for the movie.
95
:
00:04:36
So I ended up being his
assistant on this gigantic, like.
96
:
00:04:40
You know, a hundred day
movie shoot in New York.
97
:
00:04:43
And, um, the best part of being,
you know, being on a film set like
98
:
00:04:48
that is all the people you meet.
99
:
00:04:50
Um, you know, I didn't even know what all
people did in all the departments, you
100
:
00:04:53
know, and you just, you just get to know
people and it turned out that, um, you
101
:
00:04:57
know, on the set of this movie over, over
months and months, I got to know this guy.
102
:
00:05:01
He was one of the, one of the
ADs and he had written a movie.
103
:
00:05:04
And he's like, Oh, you
went to film school.
104
:
00:05:06
Would you read my movie?
105
:
00:05:08
And I was like, sure.
106
:
00:05:09
And it was an action movie, you know, and
I was like, I gave him the disclaimer.
107
:
00:05:13
I'm, I went to film school.
108
:
00:05:15
I'm not looking to write.
109
:
00:05:17
You know, actually, but I'll give
you notes, you know, um, I was
110
:
00:05:20
so arrogant, you know, and I,
um, anyway, so I read his script.
111
:
00:05:25
He'd written it with this other guy.
112
:
00:05:26
You got
113
:
00:05:26
Marc Preston: that arrogance of
only a freshly minted, uh, film
114
:
00:05:29
school student can have, yeah,
115
:
00:05:31
Stuart Zicherman: like bonehead, you know?
116
:
00:05:32
And, um, but it turned out I gave
these guys notes and they really
117
:
00:05:36
liked my notes and they said,
would you want to rewrite it?
118
:
00:05:39
You know, uh, with us and if we
sell it and I'm like, yeah, sure.
119
:
00:05:42
You know, we'll, we'll sell it, you
know, and it all seems so ridiculous.
120
:
00:05:46
Um, but I did, I would, I would
PA for like 15 hours a day.
121
:
00:05:50
And then at night I kind of rewrote
their movies, uh, their movie.
122
:
00:05:54
It turned out that one of those
guys knew a guy who worked in
123
:
00:05:56
the, at William Morris and they
sold the movie to Warner brothers.
124
:
00:06:00
And so I went from being a PA
one day to being a, you know,
125
:
00:06:05
and it was an action movie.
126
:
00:06:06
And so like, and that was,
that was the movie that.
127
:
00:06:08
you know, I made my first Marc on.
128
:
00:06:11
And so like, from that day forward, I.
129
:
00:06:13
It was an action movie writer, you
know, without really, it was my way
130
:
00:06:17
in and, um, that movie never got made,
but from it, I got an agent and started
131
:
00:06:24
writing, you know, you're writing that in
132
:
00:06:25
Marc Preston: and of itself.
133
:
00:06:26
It was its own lesson.
134
:
00:06:27
It always blows my mind whenever I'm
speaking with folks and I take a look
135
:
00:06:30
sometimes at their, you know, a quick
glance at their IMDb is how many seemingly
136
:
00:06:34
really cool projects just were either
made and just never got released.
137
:
00:06:38
Story, you know, how.
138
:
00:06:39
There's some stumble in the process.
139
:
00:06:41
Yeah.
140
:
00:06:41
Stuart Zicherman: Yeah.
141
:
00:06:42
No, I mean, I worked on action movies for
the next 10 years, you know, um, and I
142
:
00:06:47
think two of them got made and one of them
I got credit on and, but it's, it was,
143
:
00:06:50
at the time it was a very funny thing.
144
:
00:06:52
It's probably still this way, but, um,
you know, it's a, the action movie world
145
:
00:06:58
was like, you, you, you pitch an idea,
you know, and, and you write a movie
146
:
00:07:02
and then you get rewritten and maybe you
get brought back or you get hired on a
147
:
00:07:06
different movie to rewrite, you know.
148
:
00:07:08
I worked on a small piece of Rush Hour 2.
149
:
00:07:11
You know, I worked on, like, I worked
on all these different things, but
150
:
00:07:15
it was a cool experience and, um, and
you really, over time, start to figure
151
:
00:07:19
out what you really want to write.
152
:
00:07:20
Marc Preston: When you, uh, you decided
to go off to film school, what was the
153
:
00:07:23
original plan where you're like, okay, I'm
going to be, uh, I'm going to be a writer,
154
:
00:07:26
director, I'm going to be a producer.
155
:
00:07:28
Executive producer.
156
:
00:07:28
What was there originally
a plan as a freshman?
157
:
00:07:31
What your game plan was?
158
:
00:07:32
Stuart Zicherman: Yeah.
159
:
00:07:33
I mean, I, I got into college.
160
:
00:07:34
I was a classics major.
161
:
00:07:35
I was an English major and I, um, I
loved drama and I loved, um, stories.
162
:
00:07:42
And, and so when I applied to
film school, my hope was just to
163
:
00:07:45
sort of learn something about it.
164
:
00:07:46
I didn't come from a family
or a world where anybody had
165
:
00:07:50
any connections to that world.
166
:
00:07:51
I just loved.
167
:
00:07:53
I love movies and TV, you know, and
I, I, um, so my hope was just, yeah,
168
:
00:07:59
I want to be a writer director, but
what was great about, you know, the
169
:
00:08:01
graduate program at USC is they, they
teach you everything, you know, you
170
:
00:08:05
learn about sound, you learn about
cinematography, you learn about all the
171
:
00:08:08
different elements of, you know, sound.
172
:
00:08:13
And, um, you know, it was,
it was just for somebody who
173
:
00:08:16
didn't know anything about it.
174
:
00:08:18
Um, it was just a great
learning experience.
175
:
00:08:21
Marc Preston: Well, you mentioned,
uh, you were, you know, nobody
176
:
00:08:23
in your family was doing this.
177
:
00:08:24
What, what were your folks up to?
178
:
00:08:25
What was their, uh,
what was their vocation?
179
:
00:08:27
I'm assuming, by the way, you, you,
uh, did you grow up in New York or
180
:
00:08:29
is that where you're originally from?
181
:
00:08:32
Stuart Zicherman: Yeah.
182
:
00:08:32
And, um, Yeah, my mom was a teacher on
Long Island, um, a grade school teacher.
183
:
00:08:38
And my dad worked, uh, as a stockbroker
and, and, um, you know, to their
184
:
00:08:43
credit, they were always like, well,
you know, you know, it's a business
185
:
00:08:47
where one in a million make it.
186
:
00:08:48
And they were up to their credit.
187
:
00:08:49
They were always like, Somebody's
got to be the one, you know,
188
:
00:08:53
so I always believed like
189
:
00:08:54
Marc Preston: that.
190
:
00:08:54
That's, that's a rarity, you know,
usually a parent, there's always that
191
:
00:08:58
inclination to like, you don't want them
to hurt themselves or go down a path.
192
:
00:09:01
That's going to be negative.
193
:
00:09:02
You know, somebody has got to
do that was my mentality when I
194
:
00:09:05
got into doing stuff like this.
195
:
00:09:06
It's like, well, somebody has
got to do it, you know, so no
196
:
00:09:08
inclination to, uh, go into, uh,
uh, stock brokerage, uh, brokerage.
197
:
00:09:14
I can, I talk for a living.
198
:
00:09:15
I know it's hard to believe there
was no inclination to do that at all.
199
:
00:09:17
Stuart Zicherman: No, um, I'm not.
200
:
00:09:19
No finance was not my, uh, my jam.
201
:
00:09:22
It's funny, you know, for years,
like, you know, like you were
202
:
00:09:24
saying before, you know, especially
in the movie business, you write
203
:
00:09:27
movies and things don't get made.
204
:
00:09:28
So for years I was working, writing
movies, making a living, you know,
205
:
00:09:33
and, you know, I don't think my dad,
you know, my dad worked in finance.
206
:
00:09:36
He understood like, yeah, Paychecks,
you know, like, um, like I couldn't ever
207
:
00:09:42
show anybody, nothing ever got made.
208
:
00:09:44
So like, they were like,
what are you really doing?
209
:
00:09:46
You know,
210
:
00:09:47
Marc Preston: But you can say, you
know, stockbroker, you're, you can say
211
:
00:09:49
your job's very speculative as well.
212
:
00:09:51
You know, when you think about it.
213
:
00:09:52
Stuart Zicherman: Yeah, it is.
214
:
00:09:54
Marc Preston: So when you're growing
up though, uh, of course you want to go
215
:
00:09:57
and you said you love movies and were
you like just movies in general or did
216
:
00:10:00
you really like going to the theater?
217
:
00:10:01
Was the actual theatrical experience, was
that like a big thing for you or you just
218
:
00:10:04
didn't care if you know, TV, theater?
219
:
00:10:07
Stuart Zicherman: I loved,
I loved going to the movies.
220
:
00:10:09
I mean, I loved it, loved it.
221
:
00:10:10
You know, my parents were divorced and
like, you know, and I just, I felt like
222
:
00:10:15
everything I learned about, there's a
sounds cliche, but everything I learned
223
:
00:10:19
about the world was, you know, movies.
224
:
00:10:21
I mean, I remember going
like with the colleges that.
225
:
00:10:24
I thought that colleges were like where
everything looked like in Dead Poets
226
:
00:10:27
Society, you know, um, even though that
was not even a college, it was a prep
227
:
00:10:32
school, but, um, you know, um, so yeah,
I mean, I, I love going to the theater.
228
:
00:10:39
I love the movie experience.
229
:
00:10:41
I remember, you know, there's a lot of
movies you can, you can say to me, you
230
:
00:10:45
know, like, oh, uh, Empire Strikes Back
or Princess Bride, or, you know, uh, and
231
:
00:10:50
I can tell you, uh, The theater I was
at, you know, I remember the experience.
232
:
00:10:54
Marc Preston: The movies kind of
became a timeline for you, like a
233
:
00:10:57
little notches along the timeline
where you can say, well, no, this
234
:
00:10:59
movie came out at, you know, a grade
you're in, what you were doing.
235
:
00:11:02
Stuart Zicherman: Yeah.
236
:
00:11:02
And it was such an event thing in your
life, you know, it was like, um, you
237
:
00:11:06
knew when he was coming out more all
day weekend or summer, you know, it was,
238
:
00:11:09
it was such a big part of our, because
obviously we didn't have, You know,
239
:
00:11:14
we didn't have it in our homes yet.
240
:
00:11:16
Yeah.
241
:
00:11:16
I loved it.
242
:
00:11:17
I loved it.
243
:
00:11:18
I, uh,
244
:
00:11:18
Marc Preston: did you have any brothers
or sisters that, uh, were you an only kid?
245
:
00:11:21
Stuart Zicherman: I had a sister,
um, and I have a sister and, um,
246
:
00:11:26
yeah, she wasn't, they didn't do it.
247
:
00:11:27
It was mainly like a thing I do with
my friends and, you know, I loved it.
248
:
00:11:31
I loved storytelling and I loved reading
and I loved, um, just loved storytelling.
249
:
00:11:36
And it
250
:
00:11:36
Marc Preston: was funny that what you
mentioned about Dead Poets Society,
251
:
00:11:38
cause I thought, oh, that was cool.
252
:
00:11:40
Small, uh, you know, uh,
college in Northeast.
253
:
00:11:43
And then I got a little older.
254
:
00:11:44
It's like, well, Van Wilder, that seems
like kind of a fun college experience
255
:
00:11:47
also, you know, you know, what were the,
like those benchMarc movies or theatrical
256
:
00:11:52
experiences that you can call back on
and go, okay, that was Mount Rushmore
257
:
00:11:56
of movies that I just loved as a kid.
258
:
00:11:58
Stuart Zicherman: Well, I mean, you
know, there were a few, I mean, there
259
:
00:12:00
was, you know, um, I love the princess
bride, you know, but I really loved,
260
:
00:12:06
like, this is obscure and weird.
261
:
00:12:08
There was a movie, uh, the eighties
called the killing fields that, um,
262
:
00:12:12
I remember seeing, it's like, it's
263
:
00:12:13
Marc Preston: about Cambodia or Vietnam.
264
:
00:12:15
I think, um,
265
:
00:12:16
Stuart Zicherman: and, um, remember
like, It just was so transported to this
266
:
00:12:22
other world, this whole story I didn't
know anything about, you know, and, and
267
:
00:12:26
the sort of growing up a Jewish kid on
Long Island, like, you know, about the
268
:
00:12:29
Holocaust, but you didn't know there was
like a massacre of millions of civilians,
269
:
00:12:34
like movies, this could take you to these
other places and these other stories.
270
:
00:12:37
And, and I remember, um, You know,
after, um, seeing that movie, like
271
:
00:12:42
I started a food drive at school
for like Cambodian refugees,
272
:
00:12:48
cause I was so taken by the movie.
273
:
00:12:50
I just remember, yeah,
I saw it multiple times.
274
:
00:12:54
I just like, you know, there were
movies like that, that just really, um.
275
:
00:12:58
Captivated me that the
drama of the storytelling,
276
:
00:13:01
Marc Preston: but that's really, I guess
what kind of boils down to is, is the
277
:
00:13:03
storytelling when you realize it's not
just, uh, you know, you were a certain
278
:
00:13:07
age where everybody's watching the action
movies, you know, the diehard or whatever,
279
:
00:13:11
nothing against that great Christmas
movie, but you know, when that was going
280
:
00:13:14
on, Then you look at the more serious, for
lack of a better way of putting it, there
281
:
00:13:18
are certain movies that kind of grab you.
282
:
00:13:19
I remember when I was a kid, I think
the movie, the right stuff just kind
283
:
00:13:22
of captivated me for some reason,
just a different tonality feeling.
284
:
00:13:26
It was like, wait a minute, this was,
and I loved space stuff, you know?
285
:
00:13:29
So now, you know, we were talking
to like the diversity of the things
286
:
00:13:33
that you've definitely contributed to
different types of, you know, Stuff,
287
:
00:13:36
but is there anything you'd like, you
know, we're moving in the documentary
288
:
00:13:40
direction to where you're like, okay,
ultimately documentaries, that's the
289
:
00:13:43
thing for me, that kind of storytelling
or was it like dramas or was there
290
:
00:13:46
anything we were like, that's my jam.
291
:
00:13:48
Stuart Zicherman: You
know, um, it's funny.
292
:
00:13:50
So I started out writing these
action movies and, and, um, there
293
:
00:13:53
was a certain type of action movie
that I loved from movies growing up.
294
:
00:13:57
Like I loved.
295
:
00:13:58
You know, the seventies, uh, thrillers
like marathon man and parallax view.
296
:
00:14:02
And if I could write like action movies
set in that, you know, in that tone, I
297
:
00:14:07
was, I was game to do that, but it's,
you know, it just wasn't like that.
298
:
00:14:11
And every action movie I worked on,
um, it, it felt like it was being built
299
:
00:14:17
by blocks, you know, um, and it just
didn't feel that creative and in between
300
:
00:14:23
the paid jobs I had on, on action
movies, I would try to write romantic
301
:
00:14:27
comedies, or I would try to write.
302
:
00:14:28
little obscure movies that would be
sort of, you know, maybe a way for me
303
:
00:14:32
to break out and do something different.
304
:
00:14:34
But I remember, um, I did rewrites on
rush hour two, uh, the second of the rush
305
:
00:14:41
hour movies, and, um, they were shooting
in Las Vegas and I remember It was really
306
:
00:14:45
like the first time I worked on a big
set with big stars and, and I remember
307
:
00:14:50
being on set in, in Las Vegas and, and,
um, just being in the middle of it, like,
308
:
00:14:55
and, and Jackie Chan and Chris Tucker and
were so funny in person, like, and they
309
:
00:15:03
were so, uh, and the improv and the, um,
and the way that they could just take
310
:
00:15:08
like a couple of words that we wrote
and turn it into something different.
311
:
00:15:11
Like I was like, I just
wanted to find my way.
312
:
00:15:14
And it felt so human.
313
:
00:15:15
I just wanted to find my way into
things that felt human, you know?
314
:
00:15:19
And, um, and TV really gave me that
opportunity because, you know, um, in
315
:
00:15:24
movies, things just didn't get made.
316
:
00:15:26
And when I got the TV, I actually got
the TV initially through JJ Abrams.
317
:
00:15:30
He produced my first pilot and, um,
318
:
00:15:33
Marc Preston: Oh, which
one, which one was that?
319
:
00:15:34
It was
320
:
00:15:34
Stuart Zicherman: a pilot
called pros and cons.
321
:
00:15:36
It didn't get picked up for series.
322
:
00:15:37
Marc Preston: Oh, okay.
323
:
00:15:38
Stuart Zicherman: Um, but it was
like a con man kind of thing.
324
:
00:15:41
And I remember like Being on
set, you know, when you're the
325
:
00:15:43
writer of a TV show, they, they
give you the keys to the kingdom.
326
:
00:15:46
Like you're on set.
327
:
00:15:47
You're, you're the one making
everything, you know, kind of happen.
328
:
00:15:49
You have that
329
:
00:15:50
Marc Preston: thing about TV
that's different than movies.
330
:
00:15:51
Movies are director's medium,
but it seems like, uh, TV is more
331
:
00:15:54
of a writer's medium, you know?
332
:
00:15:56
Stuart Zicherman: Oh, it's totally.
333
:
00:15:57
Yeah.
334
:
00:15:58
No, it's, I mean, you're, the
writer is the showrunner and the
335
:
00:15:59
showrunner is the boss, you know?
336
:
00:16:02
And, um, I couldn't believe it.
337
:
00:16:04
You know, I couldn't believe that you're
involved in casting and you're involved
338
:
00:16:06
in, in, you're staying there on set.
339
:
00:16:09
They say cut and the actors look to the
monitors and the director turns around
340
:
00:16:16
and looks at you and like, are we good?
341
:
00:16:18
And you're like, we're good.
342
:
00:16:19
You know?
343
:
00:16:19
And like, I, I just, it was so, and so
to me, I, um, I did, I never wanted to
344
:
00:16:25
be like, I was sort of pigeonholed and
stuck in that, in that action movie
345
:
00:16:28
thing at the beginning of my career.
346
:
00:16:30
I really, once I got into TV and was
able to sort of write about people.
347
:
00:16:34
and write about, you know, human stories.
348
:
00:16:36
I just, whatever I did, I wanted to be
writing about that, you know, and it
349
:
00:16:40
didn't matter if it was like an hour
long, you know, um, intense drama, like
350
:
00:16:46
the Americans or, or Lights Out or,
or things like that, or like slightly
351
:
00:16:51
more like, you know, lighter fare.
352
:
00:16:53
Like this first show I did, uh, for
JJ was a show called Six Degrees.
353
:
00:16:58
Um, it was on ABC.
354
:
00:16:59
Um, You know, that had a big concept.
355
:
00:17:02
It was about these people.
356
:
00:17:03
And, and, um, and it didn't matter
like anywhere in my career, I went,
357
:
00:17:07
like, there are things I'm just
interested in writing about, you know,
358
:
00:17:10
Marc Preston: JJ Abrams is kind
of like big guns, I mean, a lost
359
:
00:17:13
guy, it's kind of an example.
360
:
00:17:14
It's about real human experiences
kind of shot through the lens of this.
361
:
00:17:18
Kind of sci fi vibe, you know,
362
:
00:17:21
Stuart Zicherman: he's the king of it.
363
:
00:17:22
I mean, he's incredible at it.
364
:
00:17:23
I mean, he really, you know, he, um,
really inspired me to like, you can, you
365
:
00:17:28
can pitch and sell and write big ideas
that, but approach them character first.
366
:
00:17:33
And he was able to do that, you know,
alias and lost and all those shows
367
:
00:17:37
were just, you know, Um, Felicity, like
they were just all, his early TV shows
368
:
00:17:41
were all like character for shows.
369
:
00:17:43
And, um, so I've been really lucky in my
career, I mean, by not sort of sticking to
370
:
00:17:48
one genre, I get invited to do different
things, you know, and, and I've been
371
:
00:17:54
lucky enough to work on, you know, um, you
know, um, Half hours and comedies and, uh,
372
:
00:18:01
things that have a lot more humor to them.
373
:
00:18:03
And then really, really dark
dramas and, and spy thrillers.
374
:
00:18:07
And I, I've just been able to sort of
move between all these different worlds,
375
:
00:18:11
but with the sort of commonality of
like, at their core, they're, they're,
376
:
00:18:14
they're about something very human.
377
:
00:18:16
Marc Preston: Coming up with a story all
on your own, or do you like the challenge?
378
:
00:18:21
Like when there is a existing story,
existing script, and they talk about
379
:
00:18:24
their script doctors, you know, for
whatever reason, it's just not jelling.
380
:
00:18:28
Do you like to kind of come in
there and kind of solve the puzzle?
381
:
00:18:30
And do you prefer that, or do you prefer
coming up with something organically from
382
:
00:18:34
scratch, or is there even a preference?
383
:
00:18:37
Stuart Zicherman: Um, it's
not only a preference.
384
:
00:18:38
There are two totally different things.
385
:
00:18:40
You know, when you come into something
that already exists, it's like, it's easy
386
:
00:18:42
to see it from the 10, 000 foot view.
387
:
00:18:45
You know, you can see where the
problems are and, and, um, it
388
:
00:18:49
doesn't feel like yours, you know?
389
:
00:18:52
Um, so, I mean, I do
always like coming up with.
390
:
00:18:55
Um, you know, my own stuff or stuff
that's inspired by something or, or
391
:
00:18:59
inspired by a piece of history or
book or article or, um, a podcast,
392
:
00:19:05
you know, um, cause then you can
make those things your own, you know,
393
:
00:19:09
Marc Preston: I play around with
screenwriting just for, to me, it's
394
:
00:19:11
kind of a cathartic, it's kind of fun.
395
:
00:19:13
It's just to just fart around, open up
the software and, you know, fart around
396
:
00:19:17
is a professional term by the way.
397
:
00:19:18
I don't know if you'll agree with that.
398
:
00:19:20
What is your favorite
book on screenwriting?
399
:
00:19:22
I think I've read the ones
with the save the cat.
400
:
00:19:24
I think I've, I've read a couple,
you know, but what is yours?
401
:
00:19:27
Do you think that you mostly ascribe to is
like, okay, that's kind of the process I'm
402
:
00:19:32
using for the most part, or is there one?
403
:
00:19:34
Stuart Zicherman: Well,
there isn't really one.
404
:
00:19:35
I mean, um, you know, the Sid
Field book was sort of the one
405
:
00:19:38
that everyone learned on, right?
406
:
00:19:40
Like with the three act
structure and all that.
407
:
00:19:42
Um, I always really loved reading
anything by William Goldman.
408
:
00:19:46
Um, you know, and, and because he
sort of espoused this thing that I've
409
:
00:19:50
come to learn over the years, which
is like, The three act structure is
410
:
00:19:55
innate in any good story, you know,
if you, you know, I always say like,
411
:
00:20:01
you can sit at a dinner table, right?
412
:
00:20:03
And watch someone tell a really
interesting story who's not a good
413
:
00:20:08
storyteller and be very bored by it.
414
:
00:20:10
Or you can watch someone who's a great
storyteller tell a not great story.
415
:
00:20:14
Um, and just be completely enraptured
by it because some people just have
416
:
00:20:18
an understanding of like structure.
417
:
00:20:22
They know how to hit the beats and they
know how to, you know, when to move on
418
:
00:20:25
and when to move on to the next thing
and not to get stuck in something.
419
:
00:20:27
And that's always like William
Goldman just had an uncanny ability.
420
:
00:20:32
To do that,
421
:
00:20:33
Marc Preston: when you're putting
something together, when you're writing
422
:
00:20:35
a screenplay, do you see in your
mind's eye, are you seeing it play out?
423
:
00:20:39
Do you see, in other words, uh, like
even, even the physicality of the, of
424
:
00:20:43
the actors or the, the, the, the, the
seat, the set, like, uh, like whenever
425
:
00:20:47
I write something, I always seem
to be a little heavy on explaining.
426
:
00:20:49
This is what it's looking like.
427
:
00:20:51
This is going to be
aesthetic of it, if you will.
428
:
00:20:53
Or do you, do you just focus just on
the words and the thought, you know,
429
:
00:20:57
just, I know it's a very general
question, but I was just kind of
430
:
00:20:59
Stuart Zicherman: curious.
431
:
00:20:59
It's a good question.
432
:
00:21:00
It's actually, um, I'll
answer that in two parts.
433
:
00:21:03
One is the early part of my career.
434
:
00:21:06
Um, I did kind of what you, what you're
talking about is I would overwrite things
435
:
00:21:11
that I over describe things, right?
436
:
00:21:13
I wanted the reader to really understand.
437
:
00:21:16
What I was talking about, right?
438
:
00:21:19
But as I've moved on my career,
you start making shows more.
439
:
00:21:22
You start writing them to make them right.
440
:
00:21:24
You start writing them thinking
you're going to make them.
441
:
00:21:26
So it's like, it's about giving
the essence of something.
442
:
00:21:28
You know, you're going to
end up finding location.
443
:
00:21:31
You're going to end up looking.
444
:
00:21:32
For locations, you know, you're
going to end up finding actors.
445
:
00:21:35
So what I try to do now more is give
the essence of what I'm trying to say
446
:
00:21:40
versus be super specific about it.
447
:
00:21:42
Um, cause that essence, you know, it's,
it's important is eventually going
448
:
00:21:47
to be a director and there's going to
be a location managers reading this.
449
:
00:21:50
for locations.
450
:
00:21:51
And there's going to be a, you
know, production designers reading
451
:
00:21:54
it to try to figure out like what
the sets are going to look like.
452
:
00:21:57
And like, even if it's super
specific, in my words, they're
453
:
00:22:00
going to make it their own anyway.
454
:
00:22:02
Marc Preston: A lot of chefs end up ending
up in the kitchen when a movie gets made.
455
:
00:22:04
Yeah.
456
:
00:22:04
Or a TV show.
457
:
00:22:05
Yeah.
458
:
00:22:05
And there was something I read once
to never cast it as you're writing it.
459
:
00:22:09
To me, it's like, that
almost happens organically.
460
:
00:22:11
Do you try to like, When you're
writing, do you have an actor in mind
461
:
00:22:15
just as sort of a placeholder, for
lack of a better way of putting it?
462
:
00:22:18
Does that make sense?
463
:
00:22:19
Stuart Zicherman: Yeah, yeah.
464
:
00:22:20
I always end up with like, sometimes
I'm writing for a specific actor, so
465
:
00:22:25
that's different, but when I'm not
writing for a specific actor, I get like
466
:
00:22:29
an image of the character in my head.
467
:
00:22:32
It may not be like an actual person,
but it's sort of like, I just, it's
468
:
00:22:36
this thing that I imagined in my head
and that's the character, that's their
469
:
00:22:40
voice and they're kind of like their
shadow, you know, um, what's funny is
470
:
00:22:45
that every single time, you know, I'm
done with something and it's going to
471
:
00:22:49
go into production and we go to casting.
472
:
00:22:53
Like the first week of casting is
always just so painful because you have
473
:
00:22:57
all these actors reading the words on
tape or in front of you and casting.
474
:
00:23:01
And you're like, it just doesn't
sound anything like you imagined.
475
:
00:23:06
Marc Preston: Yeah.
476
:
00:23:06
Stuart Zicherman: Um,
and then you see wild
477
:
00:23:08
Marc Preston: interpretations of it going
a different lot of different directions.
478
:
00:23:10
Yeah.
479
:
00:23:11
Stuart Zicherman: Then after about a
week you start seeing it in the way that
480
:
00:23:15
they're doing it, not in the way that
you remember doing it in your head for so
481
:
00:23:18
Marc Preston: long.
482
:
00:23:19
Stuart Zicherman: So.
483
:
00:23:20
Yeah, it's a process.
484
:
00:23:21
Marc Preston: Yeah, I remember
I was auditioning once.
485
:
00:23:22
There was a callback I was with.
486
:
00:23:24
It was for the TV show.
487
:
00:23:25
Um, oh shit, I forgot.
488
:
00:23:27
Um, it was, they shot it in New Orleans.
489
:
00:23:29
Oh gosh, it was, uh, um,
the guy that did The Wire.
490
:
00:23:33
They did the show based in New Orleans.
491
:
00:23:34
Oh yeah.
492
:
00:23:35
Tremé.
493
:
00:23:35
Tremé, Tremé, why can't,
uh, Couldn't remember that.
494
:
00:23:38
I lived down there for a long time.
495
:
00:23:39
I was auditioning for, uh, Tim
Robbins was directing that episode
496
:
00:23:43
and they had somebody from HBO
and they had the writer there.
497
:
00:23:45
I was more nervous.
498
:
00:23:46
The fact that writer is sitting up there.
499
:
00:23:48
Cause those are his words.
500
:
00:23:49
He wrote, they're looking at me.
501
:
00:23:50
I'm like, I'm more concerned about
the expressions on the writer's face.
502
:
00:23:54
I'm delivering the lines, you know,
cause this came from, that came from him.
503
:
00:23:58
You know,
504
:
00:23:59
Stuart Zicherman: I always say like,
what's amazing about the process, right.
505
:
00:24:02
Of, of writing shows or movies.
506
:
00:24:05
It's like, we.
507
:
00:24:06
Writers, we start with
a blank screen, right?
508
:
00:24:09
It's just, it's just us.
509
:
00:24:10
It's our, it's just me in it, right?
510
:
00:24:13
And for the whole time I'm writing
it, it's just the two of us.
511
:
00:24:15
But what happens is like, the second
that you take it off your computer and
512
:
00:24:19
start, like, you give it to a director,
then it becomes, the director is also,
513
:
00:24:23
the director is going home at night and
And telling their husband or wife, right.
514
:
00:24:26
Um, my, my new show is this right.
515
:
00:24:30
And then you start making it.
516
:
00:24:31
Now there's a whole crew and that
crew has given up, you know, 18
517
:
00:24:35
hours a day to work on the set.
518
:
00:24:37
And they're going home and say, my
new show is, you know, So by the
519
:
00:24:40
time like you're done, the actors
and the crew and everybody, there's
520
:
00:24:43
300 people who feel like it's their
show, no longer just your show.
521
:
00:24:47
And I love that.
522
:
00:24:49
Like, I love that.
523
:
00:24:50
Marc Preston: I was about to say,
there's got to be such a source of pride
524
:
00:24:52
that, you know, you created literally
something out of nothing, you know,
525
:
00:24:56
and now, now there's budgets behind it.
526
:
00:24:57
Now there are people putting food
on their table with is, it's one
527
:
00:25:00
of those things I think writers.
528
:
00:25:02
Uh, you know, when you start looking
at the order of the credits, me doing
529
:
00:25:05
narration a lot and whenever I see
that the narrator on a documentary
530
:
00:25:09
or a TV show comes as one of the last
credits, I'm like, that should be
531
:
00:25:13
the first, you know, 'cause that's
who you're with the whole time.
532
:
00:25:15
To me, I think the writer really,
it is their, it's their baby
533
:
00:25:19
and everybody came after that.
534
:
00:25:20
But that's just kind of my interpretation
of No, I think it's, you know,
535
:
00:25:23
kinda like what you're saying.
536
:
00:25:23
Stuart Zicherman: I think it's true.
537
:
00:25:24
And, and it is.
538
:
00:25:25
It is your baby.
539
:
00:25:26
But it becomes a lot of
other people's babies.
540
:
00:25:30
And then eventually, which is always
the hardest part is, you know, you give
541
:
00:25:34
it out to the world and then it becomes
the world's show, you know, or movie.
542
:
00:25:39
And, and so it's, it, in
reality, it's just, It just
543
:
00:25:43
isn't yours anymore, you know?
544
:
00:25:44
It was, yeah.
545
:
00:25:45
Marc Preston: I just think it's so funny
that, you know, you look at a, a, a film,
546
:
00:25:48
uh, and a lot of times you, you, you just,
now, if you're in the, in, in the industry
547
:
00:25:51
and you're like, you probably know who
the writer is, you know, but usually it's
548
:
00:25:54
the director or the big stars in it, and
the writer doesn't always get referenced.
549
:
00:25:59
And I'm like, wait a minute, this
thing didn't exist without them.
550
:
00:26:01
You know, that's, that's, you
know, they're kinda the quiet
551
:
00:26:04
heroes, you know, of the Hollywood.
552
:
00:26:11
If you look at your projects you've
done, is there anything you've done
553
:
00:26:15
in particular that was close to you
or close to a personal experience?
554
:
00:26:19
Uh, cause you mentioned you were, your
parents are divorced, but I thought the
555
:
00:26:22
movie adult child of divorce was such a
fun kind of concept, but not just that.
556
:
00:26:27
I just kind of saw that and I was
like, well, I was wondering, is there
557
:
00:26:29
anything that really kind of took a
big chunk of your own personal life?
558
:
00:26:33
And you put that into the script.
559
:
00:26:34
Was there anything you've
ever done like that?
560
:
00:26:35
Yeah.
561
:
00:26:36
Stuart Zicherman: Well, I mean,
obviously that, that movie ACOD was,
562
:
00:26:39
um, It was about my parents divorce.
563
:
00:26:41
I wanted to make something, um,
that was funny about divorce.
564
:
00:26:45
You know, I'd grown up on all these very,
very serious divorce movies and obviously
565
:
00:26:50
divorce is a very serious subject.
566
:
00:26:51
Marc Preston: Yeah.
567
:
00:26:52
Like Kramer versus Kramer.
568
:
00:26:53
When I was a kid, I was like,
wow, this is heavy, man.
569
:
00:26:55
Stuart Zicherman: Yeah.
570
:
00:26:55
They tried to like make, make some light
out of it and War of the Roses and,
571
:
00:27:00
um, you know, but there'd never really
been like a divorce comedy per se.
572
:
00:27:04
And I, my parents got divorced when I
was a kid and I thought it was You know,
573
:
00:27:08
it was sad and hard, but there were also
like moments of like insanity and levity.
574
:
00:27:14
And, um, and so I just, yeah, I, I
wanted to write something that, um, my
575
:
00:27:19
parents had, you know, there was a funny
situation in my parents divorce that I
576
:
00:27:25
thought could make for a good comedy.
577
:
00:27:27
So yeah, I mean, um, that was, that
was a very personal story, poured
578
:
00:27:32
a lot of my own life into that.
579
:
00:27:35
Marc Preston: Was your dad,
uh, was it Richard Jenkins?
580
:
00:27:37
Okay.
581
:
00:27:37
Was it, was it, was the casting
at all anywhere close to, uh,
582
:
00:27:42
uh, to your, to your real folks?
583
:
00:27:43
Stuart Zicherman: No, you know,
at a certain point you don't
584
:
00:27:45
want to offend your parents, so
you don't want to get too close.
585
:
00:27:47
Um, but you know, it also was a case
of, um, again, like these things
586
:
00:27:53
always, it's funny, I find even in
the most personal things I've worked
587
:
00:27:57
on, the Things I care about the most.
588
:
00:27:59
Um, they feel closest to home.
589
:
00:28:02
Like they take on a life
of their own, you know?
590
:
00:28:04
Yeah, no, Richard Jenkins and my
dad have very little in common.
591
:
00:28:08
Um, but Richard Jenkins
is a funny son of a gun,
592
:
00:28:12
Marc Preston: you know?
593
:
00:28:13
He's done so many wonderful things,
but when he played, uh, uh, something
594
:
00:28:16
about Mary, he was a therapist.
595
:
00:28:19
It was just so subtle and it wasn't
even a big part of the movie,
596
:
00:28:22
but it was just like, Just so
random, uh, but anyway, I'm sorry.
597
:
00:28:25
So I kind of miss those kind of
comedies, but in talking about things
598
:
00:28:28
that are close or personal and then
things that are scripted and things
599
:
00:28:32
that come from somewhere internal.
600
:
00:28:34
And here you are stepping into something
with, uh, American sports story.
601
:
00:28:38
That's nothing that you created.
602
:
00:28:40
That's real life.
603
:
00:28:41
I mean, what, what was that turn?
604
:
00:28:42
That had been kind of itching at you.
605
:
00:28:43
You're like, I want to do
something with this story.
606
:
00:28:46
Stuart Zicherman: Well, you know,
I think the last bunch of years,
607
:
00:28:48
I mean, everything I've worked
on last bunch of years has been
608
:
00:28:51
based on some underlying material.
609
:
00:28:54
I did sweet bitter, which
was based on a book.
610
:
00:28:56
Um, you know, uh, the street next
door, which was based on a podcast.
611
:
00:29:00
Um, you know, and then along came, you
know, uh, the Aaron Hernandez story.
612
:
00:29:06
Which was based on the, the, the
spotlight team at the Boston Globe
613
:
00:29:10
at these, this series of articles
about, um, the Hernandez story, which
614
:
00:29:14
Marc Preston: as a sports fan,
I thought I really knew when
615
:
00:29:17
they're a movie called spotlight.
616
:
00:29:18
So is that the same edit,
uh, uh, investigative team?
617
:
00:29:22
Oh, okay.
618
:
00:29:23
Stuart Zicherman: So they did,
they did the priest, uh, the priest
619
:
00:29:26
story that movie was made out of.
620
:
00:29:28
Um, and the spotlight team is this
constantly sort of like revolving group
621
:
00:29:31
of reporters at the globe that does
like deep dives into different stories.
622
:
00:29:36
And they did this deep dive
into the Hernandez story, which.
623
:
00:29:39
I think a lot of people, including
me, thought that they knew, right?
624
:
00:29:42
Like I followed that
story when it happened.
625
:
00:29:45
I'm a big sports fan.
626
:
00:29:46
I thought I knew the story.
627
:
00:29:47
It turned out, you know, the spotlight
team, you know, wrote about a lot of
628
:
00:29:52
elements, the story that really changed
the narrative for me and, um, you know,
629
:
00:29:59
When you ask about making it personal,
I think like you have to find a way
630
:
00:30:03
as a writer, you have to find a way.
631
:
00:30:05
into anything that you write,
any true story or anything that's
632
:
00:30:09
based on someone else's story.
633
:
00:30:11
You've got to find a way to
personally find your, you know, this
634
:
00:30:14
was a funny one for me, a really
challenging one, you know, because,
635
:
00:30:18
you know, it's about a murderer,
but also like a world class athlete.
636
:
00:30:24
with a drug addiction, um, you know,
who, you know, is, is half Puerto
637
:
00:30:29
Rican, half Italian, incredible
athlete, um, exploring a sexuality.
638
:
00:30:34
I, you know, and none of those things,
um, including an athlete, but I, I
639
:
00:30:41
did see in the story in, in, in, you
know, when I, when I, when I did, when
640
:
00:30:46
I did my deep dive into the material,
I saw that there was like a really
641
:
00:30:51
intense story about authenticity.
642
:
00:30:54
About a person trying to find
Their authenticity and like
643
:
00:30:57
figure out who they are and who
they're going to be in the world.
644
:
00:31:01
And, and that was something
I, I could relate to.
645
:
00:31:03
I thought other people could relate to.
646
:
00:31:04
And that was my approach
to the, to the material.
647
:
00:31:07
Marc Preston: Wasn't there a talk with
him that there was, uh, that he may
648
:
00:31:11
have also had a CTE or brain injury that
may have been, or am I imagining that?
649
:
00:31:16
I'm trying to remember.
650
:
00:31:17
Stuart Zicherman: That's
a big part of the show.
651
:
00:31:18
He, um, he died.
652
:
00:31:20
He had the largest, um, Um, he
had the worst case of CTE, um,
653
:
00:31:26
ever diagnosed in someone his age.
654
:
00:31:29
Um, they can only
diagnose CTE after death.
655
:
00:31:32
Um, and, um, unfortunately after he
committed suicide, you know, they
656
:
00:31:36
did a, um, an autopsy of his brain
and they, they discovered that he
657
:
00:31:39
had very, very severe, uh, CTE.
658
:
00:31:43
Marc Preston: The, that Will Smith movie
he did, uh, which it's, it seems like
659
:
00:31:46
there's still a discussion about it.
660
:
00:31:48
In fact, my speaking with my son about a
few months ago and we're talking about,
661
:
00:31:52
uh, that there is talk about, you know,
years down the road, will they be playing
662
:
00:31:56
football the same way they are now?
663
:
00:31:58
You look at some of these athletes
and you look at the way they're
664
:
00:32:00
impaired later on, but you look
at this guy who's really young.
665
:
00:32:03
Okay.
666
:
00:32:03
They, then they're saying, okay, this
actually starts in high school or even
667
:
00:32:07
before that, you know, it's not just
being hit, but they're playing football.
668
:
00:32:09
Quick stops, you know, and, and factoring
all that in, you know, did you feel
669
:
00:32:13
like extra responsibility because of,
uh, uh, you know, this, there, there
670
:
00:32:18
are people still alive, there's family,
there's people out there in here.
671
:
00:32:20
You are telling a story.
672
:
00:32:21
Was it kind of, did you feel extra
pressure to kind of get this for
673
:
00:32:25
lack of better way of putting it?
674
:
00:32:26
There's no right or wrong, but you
know, to get it right, you know?
675
:
00:32:28
Yeah,
676
:
00:32:29
Stuart Zicherman: no, I, I felt
a ton of responsibility, you
677
:
00:32:31
know, um, and the biggest thing,
most important thing to me was.
678
:
00:32:36
To never forgive
Hernandez for what he did.
679
:
00:32:38
You know, we're making a show
where we have to make this
680
:
00:32:40
character likeable, um, relatable.
681
:
00:32:43
We have to sort of like explain kind
of why we think he got to where,
682
:
00:32:47
you know, and did what he did.
683
:
00:32:48
But, um, I thought it was absolutely
paramount that we never forgive him.
684
:
00:32:53
We never let the audience forget that he
ended people's lives, and ruined families.
685
:
00:32:58
And, um, you know, we, You
know, my only thing was, is
686
:
00:33:02
like, he wasn't born that way.
687
:
00:33:04
He wasn't born a murderer.
688
:
00:33:05
He became a murderer.
689
:
00:33:07
And, um, so I felt incumbent upon us
to show this journey and show, you
690
:
00:33:13
know, cause I think that we sometimes
live in, in a, in a world where now,
691
:
00:33:17
where we get a little one note about
things, you know, he's, he's a monster.
692
:
00:33:21
Well, yeah, but he wasn't born a monster.
693
:
00:33:23
He became a monster.
694
:
00:33:24
And so like, let's look at why and how.
695
:
00:33:27
And, um, yeah.
696
:
00:33:28
you know, and by the same token,
you don't want to blame, you
697
:
00:33:32
know, all of it on any one thing.
698
:
00:33:35
You know, you don't want to say that,
um, he did it because of the CTE,
699
:
00:33:38
because there are people who had CTE
and did not commit murder, you know?
700
:
00:33:42
Yeah.
701
:
00:33:42
Marc Preston: Right.
702
:
00:33:42
Right.
703
:
00:33:43
Stuart Zicherman: Um, so, you know, I
think we just wanted to introduce all
704
:
00:33:45
these elements, you know, the, the drug
use, the sexuality, the violence, um,
705
:
00:33:50
you know, the, the, the brain injury
stuff and, um, and leave it to the
706
:
00:33:54
audience to sort of like, You know,
put it all together to understand
707
:
00:33:58
that he lived a very complicated life.
708
:
00:34:01
But again, never forgive
him for what he did.
709
:
00:34:04
Marc Preston: Being
the showrunner as well.
710
:
00:34:05
I mean, this, you really kind of taking
on the, not just writing it, but you're
711
:
00:34:09
also making, you know, big decisions,
you know, was the casting, you know,
712
:
00:34:13
something that would cause, you know,
considering you're, you're doing a biopic
713
:
00:34:16
basically, and, and, and was the casting.
714
:
00:34:18
Hard at all.
715
:
00:34:19
Or what did it, did you like when you,
when you kind of landed on, you know, the
716
:
00:34:22
character's like, okay, that's the one,
that's the one, but just what's, what
717
:
00:34:25
was the casting process like for this?
718
:
00:34:27
Stuart Zicherman: No, the casting is
really hard for something like this.
719
:
00:34:29
You know, I remember writing the
pilot and thinking like, Oh man,
720
:
00:34:32
it's never going to get made.
721
:
00:34:33
I'm never going to find a guy to
play her in her dad does, you know?
722
:
00:34:37
Uh, but we did, we found this
incredible, You know, guy who, who
723
:
00:34:41
really, you know, you know, when you
say we're making a biopic, we're, we're
724
:
00:34:45
making, we're interpreting the story.
725
:
00:34:47
So we're not looking necessarily
for somebody who looks exactly like
726
:
00:34:50
him or looking for somebody who can
sort of like, you know, inhabit the
727
:
00:34:53
character and, and bring to life
all the things in the scripts that
728
:
00:34:57
were, you know, that we're writing.
729
:
00:34:59
So.
730
:
00:35:00
Um, but it's a challenging, it's a
challenging world and challenging
731
:
00:35:04
show because, you know, you need a
guy who, um, you know, for Aaron in
732
:
00:35:08
particular, you need a guy who is
big and strong and tough and mean and
733
:
00:35:12
scary, but also like this particular
character was goofy and funny and silly.
734
:
00:35:17
And um, you know, you're, you're looking
for somebody that can, can take all that
735
:
00:35:21
on, you know, but the same token, you're
also casting a lot of well known people.
736
:
00:35:25
So it was tricky with Belichick.
737
:
00:35:28
Urban Meyer, you know, Rob Gronkowski,
like all these people that we
738
:
00:35:32
all know really, really well as
sports fans, um, you know, you,
739
:
00:35:36
you don't want to do caricatures.
740
:
00:35:38
That's my thing.
741
:
00:35:39
It's like, again, we're trying to sort
of like tell the story, but you don't
742
:
00:35:42
want, I would tell the actors too.
743
:
00:35:43
You don't want the actors to, I was like,
don't, you know, tell our Belichick actor,
744
:
00:35:48
don't sit and watch hours and hours of
Belichick and trying to imitate him.
745
:
00:35:51
Like, make him your own.
746
:
00:35:53
It was hard, but it was a hard challenge.
747
:
00:35:55
It was really fun.
748
:
00:35:56
Marc Preston: I spoke with James Comey,
you know, FBI director, and then Jeff
749
:
00:36:00
Daniels, who's a phenomenal actor.
750
:
00:36:02
And, you know, And we were speaking
and he and Jeff Daniels did
751
:
00:36:04
not have really been dialogue.
752
:
00:36:06
I mean, Jeff kind of came out of, he kind
of created on his own interpretation.
753
:
00:36:10
And I think that that's,
it's two routes you could go.
754
:
00:36:13
I mean, one could almost come off as a
caricature, you know, and James Comey is
755
:
00:36:17
like the six foot six ridiculous tall guy.
756
:
00:36:20
And here's Jeff Daniels, you know,
this physically, they're not going to
757
:
00:36:23
be the same, but it's, it's, it's the
interpretation that makes it interesting.
758
:
00:36:27
I think, you know, the, the, the, Nobody
wants an imitation, you know, but in
759
:
00:36:31
doing this, did you have all the source
material there, you know, from the
760
:
00:36:34
Boston Globe or what, or, or did you go
out and do some interviews and sit down
761
:
00:36:39
with different, uh, different people
who were component parts of the story?
762
:
00:36:43
Stuart Zicherman: We didn't talk to
anybody that was actually in the story.
763
:
00:36:45
Um, you know, we, um, we did
have, we did have all the Boston
764
:
00:36:50
Globe stuff, the spotlight team.
765
:
00:36:52
Um, particularly the reporters who
had reported on the story were so
766
:
00:36:57
giving with their time and their,
and their information, and they
767
:
00:37:00
would come into the writer's room and
they would answer questions for us.
768
:
00:37:03
And that was great.
769
:
00:37:05
And then at the same time, you know,
there were, there were some things
770
:
00:37:08
that we needed to learn more about.
771
:
00:37:11
Um, and we wanted to do it
without necessarily reaching out
772
:
00:37:15
to the real people in the story.
773
:
00:37:18
So, you know, like for example,
I really wanted to portray.
774
:
00:37:22
what it would be like, you know,
the sort of like toxicity of a male,
775
:
00:37:28
like of a locker room at the time.
776
:
00:37:30
The University of Florida locker
room was known to be like, you know,
777
:
00:37:33
toxic, homophobic, um, place, you
know, with a bunch of characters.
778
:
00:37:39
And I'd never been in a, in a,
You know, in a college football
779
:
00:37:43
locker room or pro locker room.
780
:
00:37:44
So we ended up bringing on a writer
on the show who's a professional
781
:
00:37:47
football player and aspiring writer.
782
:
00:37:50
And he's been in locker rooms.
783
:
00:37:51
So it's like, you know,
it's that kind of thing.
784
:
00:37:53
Like you just trying to gain
experience of the, of this world.
785
:
00:37:58
Marc Preston: It seems like a very pivotal
piece of the story, you know, you have one
786
:
00:38:02
guy who's living his own truth internally,
externally, whatever, and you know,
787
:
00:38:06
where that may not play very well in the
machismo of the, uh, of the locker room.
788
:
00:38:12
Yeah.
789
:
00:38:12
Once this was released, did you get any
feedback from anybody who was a part of
790
:
00:38:16
the story who, you know, they're like,
yeah, this, this, this was on point.
791
:
00:38:20
Have you spoken with anybody
who was a part of the story
792
:
00:38:23
as subsequent to the release?
793
:
00:38:24
Stuart Zicherman: No, I mean, you
know, it's, it's again, like, um,
794
:
00:38:28
you're not going to get like, you
know, Tom Brady commenting on, uh, you
795
:
00:38:32
know, um, I did have a cool moment.
796
:
00:38:35
Uh, we were shooting some of the football
down in Florida and, um, Uh, there was
797
:
00:38:41
a guy who played, um, who played, we had
all these former football players and,
798
:
00:38:46
you know, that were pretending to be
our football players and, and there was
799
:
00:38:49
a, uh, a guy, uh, who had played on the
University of Florida team with Hernandez.
800
:
00:38:56
Chris Rainey, he came over and introduced
himself and told me about like what it was
801
:
00:39:00
like to be in the locker room with him.
802
:
00:39:01
And that was really cool.
803
:
00:39:03
Um, you know, just getting to talk to, I
talked to a few reporters, um, who were in
804
:
00:39:08
the locker room with the Patriots and at
that time, um, guys who covered Hernandez.
805
:
00:39:13
Um, and yeah, it's been nice to hear,
like, you know, um, you know, if
806
:
00:39:18
you watch the series one to 10, um,
you know, I think people are seeing,
807
:
00:39:23
uh, the complexity and, and, and.
808
:
00:39:26
Um, from the few people that,
um, again, most of all it's,
809
:
00:39:30
it's the Boston Globe reporters.
810
:
00:39:32
I, they're the ones I
really wanted to make proud.
811
:
00:39:34
They feel like we've done a really
good job at sort of like, you know,
812
:
00:39:37
portraying the complexity that was
Hernandez's life in a way that,
813
:
00:39:41
that may have been really real.
814
:
00:39:43
You know, you don't know when
you go into a story like this,
815
:
00:39:45
like sadly Hernandez is, is gone.
816
:
00:39:48
Um, we can't reach out to him, you know,
and so much of everything that's ever
817
:
00:39:53
been told about his story is speculative.
818
:
00:39:55
You know, no one really knows.
819
:
00:39:57
It's been good feedback for us to hear
back, like from people who are around him
820
:
00:40:01
and that world and know the story that,
um, our show feels like it's in the zone.
821
:
00:40:08
Marc Preston: No pun intended.
822
:
00:40:09
Of course.
823
:
00:40:09
Yes.
824
:
00:40:09
No, uh, the, so has this whetted
your appetite at all for doing any
825
:
00:40:13
other kind of projects like this?
826
:
00:40:15
Yeah.
827
:
00:40:15
Taking not just athletes, but.
828
:
00:40:18
Any other historical stories, figures,
things like that, and turn those into,
829
:
00:40:23
uh, be it a television or film project,
or is this kind of like, okay, this
830
:
00:40:26
is your foray into doing this done?
831
:
00:40:28
Stuart Zicherman: No, no.
832
:
00:40:29
I've always been really
interested in true stories.
833
:
00:40:31
Um, and I've always been interested
in sort of like even historical fear.
834
:
00:40:34
I mean, um, I made a
pilot about 10 years ago.
835
:
00:40:38
That's still one of my favorite
things I ever worked on.
836
:
00:40:41
Um, it didn't get picked up
the series, but I made a pilot.
837
:
00:40:44
about Casanova, the real Casanova.
838
:
00:40:47
Um, you know, I've done this incredibly
bizarre and interesting part of his life
839
:
00:40:51
that I didn't know about the people that
know about and wrote a show about that.
840
:
00:40:55
You know, um, I recently worked
on a project, um, about Um, a
841
:
00:41:01
referee, like, you know, they got
caught up in a gambling scandal.
842
:
00:41:05
I, I, you know, I worked on the shrink
next door, which was a true story.
843
:
00:41:09
They're challenging, but I do enjoy
bringing true stories to life.
844
:
00:41:13
Marc Preston: Kind of next on your,
I don't see next on your agenda,
845
:
00:41:16
but what things are you kind of,
uh, cooking up in the kitchen right
846
:
00:41:19
now that you feel like, you know,
the next, the next thing for you?
847
:
00:41:22
Stuart Zicherman: Um, I am
working on, I just wrote a legal
848
:
00:41:24
show, my first ever legal show.
849
:
00:41:26
I've never done that before.
850
:
00:41:29
So I'm excited about that.
851
:
00:41:31
Now I'm working on a really cool
show based on a book, um, that a
852
:
00:41:36
journalist wrote, um, called spooked.
853
:
00:41:39
Which is set in the world of private
espionage, the corporate espionage.
854
:
00:41:44
Marc Preston: Um, well,
that's interesting.
855
:
00:41:46
Yeah.
856
:
00:41:46
Especially like the tech world
that like, because you got to
857
:
00:41:50
know a lot of that's going on.
858
:
00:41:51
Yeah,
859
:
00:41:51
Stuart Zicherman: no, I
mean, and it's interesting.
860
:
00:41:52
The book is kind of like set in
and around the:
2016
861
:
00:41:57
It's funny.
862
:
00:41:57
You brought up James Comey.
863
:
00:41:58
Like, uh, he's, he's in that story, you
know, um, just all this sort of like.
864
:
00:42:04
Private spies that were being hired to
dig up and disseminate information around
865
:
00:42:09
the 2016 election kind of started a new
era of, of, um, spying where anyone, you
866
:
00:42:17
know, you have to be a spy to go into it.
867
:
00:42:19
You know, you could be a
868
:
00:42:20
Marc Preston: former
869
:
00:42:21
Stuart Zicherman: journalist
or a former anything.
870
:
00:42:22
Um, and it's kind of the wild west
now where, you know, in a world
871
:
00:42:26
where information is power, you know,
disseminating information, um, is
872
:
00:42:32
never, you know, and, and creating the
narrative has never been more important.
873
:
00:42:36
Um, so yeah, I'm doing a show, um,
actually with my old, uh, Uh, well
874
:
00:42:41
pal Matthew Reese from the Americans,
um, that's set in that world.
875
:
00:42:46
Marc Preston: You know, that's
one show that is on my list.
876
:
00:42:48
I call it my list.
877
:
00:42:49
The things that with a plethora of
great stuff out there, uh, I still
878
:
00:42:53
haven't had a chance to watch a
lot of stuff, but the Americans is
879
:
00:42:56
on the list, uh, without a doubt.
880
:
00:42:58
Oh, absolutely.
881
:
00:42:59
I haven't watched game of thrones.
882
:
00:43:01
I still, there's things I'd want
to watch, but there's so, you know,
883
:
00:43:03
plus I will say I have a three.
884
:
00:43:06
Well, there are two of them are
teenagers and we're got 20, One 20
885
:
00:43:09
and almost 19 year old, our TV diet
was based upon things like, uh, we
886
:
00:43:13
power watch during COVID lost things
that my kids were really into.
887
:
00:43:17
And it's kind of my time.
888
:
00:43:19
Now my kids are out there in college.
889
:
00:43:21
Now it's my time to catch up
on things like the Americans.
890
:
00:43:23
And, uh, but what are you watching?
891
:
00:43:25
Right.
892
:
00:43:25
And what, what are the, what are, who
are the writers and what are the projects
893
:
00:43:27
right now that, that grab your attention?
894
:
00:43:29
Who are you enjoying watching right now?
895
:
00:43:31
Stuart Zicherman: Um, I'm enjoying,
um, I'm really enjoying this flavor.
896
:
00:43:36
I'm enjoying, like everybody else,
I'm enjoying Nobody Wants This.
897
:
00:43:39
You know, I think it's, it's
great that the romantic comedy
898
:
00:43:41
genre is coming back to TV.
899
:
00:43:43
I'm also enjoying, I have a 12
year old son and I'm in the process
900
:
00:43:47
of showing him all the movies.
901
:
00:43:49
That I loved throughout my life,
you know, so I'm, I'm having the
902
:
00:43:53
best time showing him this weekend.
903
:
00:43:55
We watched stand by me.
904
:
00:43:57
Marc Preston: Yeah.
905
:
00:43:57
I said something the other day.
906
:
00:43:58
It's like, uh, one of my kids
is off the cuff to sit out.
907
:
00:44:00
Captain.
908
:
00:44:01
My captain is like, Holy shit.
909
:
00:44:03
They still haven't seen dead poet society.
910
:
00:44:05
Got it.
911
:
00:44:05
I mean, that's just like, you
have to, you know, school ties.
912
:
00:44:08
That's another one is, you know, as a
Jewish kid, you know, that was such a,
913
:
00:44:11
It kind of goes back to that, that thing
when you were talking about what, what
914
:
00:44:15
college, what you thought college would
be, or like the private school, you
915
:
00:44:18
know, these, you know, there, there's
a library out there and I'm, my, my
916
:
00:44:22
kids are down for checking stuff out.
917
:
00:44:24
Stuart Zicherman: After you, um, you
know, after having spent the last 25
918
:
00:44:27
years writing movies and shows and to go
back and watch the things that inspired
919
:
00:44:32
you, but you didn't know anything about
business, like watching stand by me.
920
:
00:44:35
I mean, it's a, Well, I mean as a writer
I can literally sit and watch it and
921
:
00:44:39
say there's a flawless script It is a
perfect movie and like it gets to the
922
:
00:44:45
end and I just in tears my eyes Like I
couldn't believe I looked over at my son.
923
:
00:44:49
He was like, yeah, that's good.
924
:
00:44:50
I'm like, no, dude, that's great
925
:
00:44:55
Marc Preston: And Reiner his ability
to direct, you know to put that
926
:
00:44:58
together with you think of all the
genres that he's played Played with,
927
:
00:45:01
you know, like romantic comedy.
928
:
00:45:09
We'll tell you before we get going,
I always kind of throw something out.
929
:
00:45:12
I call my seven questions.
930
:
00:45:13
It's a little extra fun
on the back end of a chat.
931
:
00:45:16
A Jewish kid.
932
:
00:45:17
I got to ask this question.
933
:
00:45:18
Uh, what is your favorite comfort food?
934
:
00:45:21
Stuart Zicherman: Favorite comfort food?
935
:
00:45:22
Um, it's not that unique.
936
:
00:45:27
I love French fries.
937
:
00:45:28
I will eat any kind of French fry.
938
:
00:45:30
I love French fries, especially
like diner French fries.
939
:
00:45:32
I think the really thick.
940
:
00:45:34
Marc Preston: Yeah, yeah,
941
:
00:45:35
Stuart Zicherman: yeah.
942
:
00:45:40
Potato cut French fries.
943
:
00:45:41
That's like, that's overdoing it.
944
:
00:45:43
But like the thick, like New York
diner, Greek diner French fries.
945
:
00:45:48
I've convinced myself that, um,
since potatoes are kind of vegetables
946
:
00:45:52
that it's kind of, it, it can't
be that unhealthy French fries.
947
:
00:45:55
Marc Preston: You and I
went to the same school.
948
:
00:45:57
Yeah.
949
:
00:45:57
Okay.
950
:
00:45:57
They were, they were
going to sound like that.
951
:
00:45:59
I like that thought, but your second
person had mentioned French fries.
952
:
00:46:01
Just, uh, I can't remember
who it was said it before.
953
:
00:46:04
I'm like, you know, when they're
good, but when they're bad, when
954
:
00:46:06
they're not good French fries,
it's a whole different thing.
955
:
00:46:09
It's like this floppy.
956
:
00:46:10
Yeah.
957
:
00:46:10
Yeah.
958
:
00:46:11
Um, next question.
959
:
00:46:12
If you're going to sit down, three
people, uh, talk story for a few hours,
960
:
00:46:16
uh, living or not, who would you like
to sit down with three people to, to
961
:
00:46:20
have some coffee and just talk with?
962
:
00:46:22
Stuart Zicherman: Oh, man.
963
:
00:46:23
Man, that's a great one.
964
:
00:46:25
Um, uh, William Goldman for sure.
965
:
00:46:29
I, I, I am a gigantic William Goldman fan.
966
:
00:46:32
Um, um, I would love to sit down like,
like with one of the great Beatnik, um,
967
:
00:46:39
musicians, you know, like I, I'd love
to say Bob Dylan, but I think he would
968
:
00:46:43
be kind of obscure and weird to talk to.
969
:
00:46:46
So I'm going to say like, Someone like
Phil Oakes, um, or someone, um, or
970
:
00:46:51
even like a Harry cheap, like someone's
like a great musical storyteller.
971
:
00:46:56
Um, I love, I love music and I love the
way that stories are told through music.
972
:
00:47:01
Yeah.
973
:
00:47:01
And whoever kind of wrote the Bible,
I've been, I've been going to Torah
974
:
00:47:06
study recently, you'll appreciate this
and just, you know, the rabbi continues
975
:
00:47:11
to like, sort of like really, really,
um, Hit hard, uh, the narrative of
976
:
00:47:16
the Bible and how it, like who it
was written by when it was written.
977
:
00:47:20
And I'm always like,
it's just a great story.
978
:
00:47:23
A lot of crazy
979
:
00:47:24
Marc Preston: storytelling in the Bible.
980
:
00:47:26
To be able to get in discussions with
people about their interpretation,
981
:
00:47:29
why, why they think it was, you know,
you know, they kind of break it down
982
:
00:47:33
almost not as much of as a theological,
but more of a historical text.
983
:
00:47:36
What did it say to the people of the time?
984
:
00:47:38
You know, that, that does
seem really intriguing to me.
985
:
00:47:41
Stuart Zicherman: I would just
love to know, like whoever wrote
986
:
00:47:42
the Bible, did they know that this
many people were going Watch it.
987
:
00:47:48
Marc Preston: This many
stories and interpretations
988
:
00:47:50
and, you know, and holidays.
989
:
00:47:52
Yeah.
990
:
00:47:52
Um, now if we're going to go back
when you were a kid, uh, you know,
991
:
00:47:56
watching movies, TV, who was your
first celebrity crush as a kid?
992
:
00:48:01
Stuart Zicherman: I mean, celebrity crush.
993
:
00:48:03
Well, I mean, I loved all the
Charlie's angels, all three of them.
994
:
00:48:06
And I love them for different reasons.
995
:
00:48:08
Um, but I'd have to say, Um,
Julie from the love boat was
996
:
00:48:14
like my, she was my crush.
997
:
00:48:17
She was so helpful.
998
:
00:48:18
She always made people's problems go away.
999
:
00:48:20
Marc Preston: Zipping around, but
with a little clipboard, you know,
:
1000
00:48:22,985 --> 00:48:23,785
she always had something going.
:
1001
00:48:23,835 --> 00:48:24,055
Yeah.
:
1002
00:48:24,155 --> 00:48:24,304
Just
:
1003
00:48:24,304 --> 00:48:25,514
Stuart Zicherman: always make
people's problems go away.
:
1004
00:48:25,514 --> 00:48:30,165
She never like complained and, and,
um, she always like, you know, kind of
:
1005
00:48:30,185 --> 00:48:31,855
stupid men running around, around her.
:
1006
00:48:31,855 --> 00:48:32,225
And she just.
:
1007
00:48:32,830 --> 00:48:37,070
It seemed to be in charge and, um,
she's so pretty and it's like Julie.
:
1008
00:48:37,130 --> 00:48:37,480
Yeah.
:
1009
00:48:37,730 --> 00:48:38,140
Marc Preston: Very good.
:
1010
00:48:38,190 --> 00:48:39,040
I'm I'm there with you.
:
1011
00:48:39,130 --> 00:48:40,080
We talked about music.
:
1012
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:43,230
Let's say going to be living on an exotic
Island, somewhere you really want to be.
:
1013
00:48:43,230 --> 00:48:45,419
It's going to be a nice resort,
but no streaming, no internet.
:
1014
00:48:45,419 --> 00:48:49,270
So if you want to listen to some music,
you're going to be there for a full year.
:
1015
00:48:49,339 --> 00:48:53,120
You need to bring a DVD for
a movie and a CD, an album.
:
1016
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:56,950
It can be a box set even, but that's
all you have to listen to and watch.
:
1017
00:48:56,980 --> 00:49:00,340
What would that DVD and what would that
CD be for that full year on that Island?
:
1018
00:49:00,615 --> 00:49:02,235
Stuart Zicherman: Well, I was
thinking about this recently because
:
1019
00:49:02,235 --> 00:49:10,035
I rewatched, um, uh, that two part
Scorsese documentary about Bob Dylan,
:
1020
00:49:10,544 --> 00:49:14,874
um, that had the two parts that were
like, you know, Dylan pre electric and
:
1021
00:49:14,874 --> 00:49:21,405
then Dylan post electric and, um, and,
and, um, I love it about the history of
:
1022
00:49:21,615 --> 00:49:25,335
folk music and then, um, sort of like
the way he hooked up with the band.
:
1023
00:49:25,785 --> 00:49:30,065
Um, and then have the band, the
tour of Europe and, and, you know,
:
1024
00:49:30,575 --> 00:49:32,205
all the relationships in the movie.
:
1025
00:49:32,205 --> 00:49:37,935
And, and, um, it's a great movie,
like a great dramatic thrust and
:
1026
00:49:37,935 --> 00:49:39,745
also just the most incredible music.
:
1027
00:49:40,384 --> 00:49:41,265
So that was a great one.
:
1028
00:49:41,265 --> 00:49:44,945
I think it's called don't look back,
but that was, that's a great one.
:
1029
00:49:45,215 --> 00:49:46,485
I'm still really like lately.
:
1030
00:49:46,485 --> 00:49:50,080
Like Really falling back in love
with, um, Pink Floyd albums.
:
1031
00:49:50,590 --> 00:49:56,619
Um, because they are just so
rich and, um, I can listen to
:
1032
00:49:56,620 --> 00:50:00,029
them over and over and constantly
finding different things in them
:
1033
00:50:00,689 --> 00:50:03,700
Marc Preston: and get a good box set
of them, uh, Pink Floyd and bring that
:
1034
00:50:03,700 --> 00:50:07,720
with you now, last couple of questions
here, if you were to say from the time
:
1035
00:50:07,720 --> 00:50:10,490
you get up in the morning till the
time you go to bed, the component parts
:
1036
00:50:10,500 --> 00:50:14,350
of a perfect day for you, what would
those component parts of perfect day
:
1037
00:50:14,350 --> 00:50:17,880
be to say this day was perfect for me.
:
1038
00:50:18,860 --> 00:50:19,250
Stuart Zicherman: Oh man.
:
1039
00:50:19,250 --> 00:50:22,370
Well, it would start with like
my kids, you know, being really
:
1040
00:50:22,370 --> 00:50:23,360
nice to me in the morning.
:
1041
00:50:24,950 --> 00:50:28,340
. Um, uh, it would start
with some kind of exercise.
:
1042
00:50:28,580 --> 00:50:32,420
Um, I'd like to do a little bit
of writing, but not that much.
:
1043
00:50:32,570 --> 00:50:36,460
Uh, 'cause you know, two or three hours
is usually my sweet spot and I'd like
:
1044
00:50:36,460 --> 00:50:37,660
to spend the rest of the day fishing.
:
1045
00:50:37,660 --> 00:50:38,890
I really like fishing.
:
1046
00:50:38,985 --> 00:50:39,405
Really?
:
1047
00:50:39,515 --> 00:50:39,805
Okay.
:
1048
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:41,500
? Yeah.
:
1049
00:50:41,835 --> 00:50:47,685
Um, I like fly fishing and I, uh,
like being on a river or, uh, piece
:
1050
00:50:47,685 --> 00:50:52,095
of water, uh, with my fly rod,
maybe in a kayak and, uh, yeah.
:
1051
00:50:52,255 --> 00:50:52,855
Marc Preston: Very cool.
:
1052
00:50:52,865 --> 00:50:53,465
Very cool.
:
1053
00:50:54,085 --> 00:50:57,585
Now, if somebody said, listen, you
can't do this for a living, this is
:
1054
00:50:57,585 --> 00:50:59,945
not something that's going to be able
to put a roof over your head anymore.
:
1055
00:50:59,965 --> 00:51:01,865
What would then be your next choice?
:
1056
00:51:01,885 --> 00:51:03,475
What would you be doing besides this?
:
1057
00:51:03,755 --> 00:51:08,495
Stuart Zicherman: Um, I would love to
have studied or be studying anthropology.
:
1058
00:51:09,090 --> 00:51:12,660
Uh, be teaching anthropology or, or being
out in the world, doing whatever, like
:
1059
00:51:12,660 --> 00:51:14,180
someone who is an anthropologist does.
:
1060
00:51:14,190 --> 00:51:16,300
Although I rarely see them
do anything but teach.
:
1061
00:51:16,630 --> 00:51:21,360
Um, but like, I just love, I love travel
and I love people and the study of people.
:
1062
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:26,359
And, um, uh, so I would like to, I
would love to be an anthropologist.
:
1063
00:51:27,195 --> 00:51:30,625
Marc Preston: Yeah, to me, uh, like
Anthony Bourdain was sort of a quasi
:
1064
00:51:30,855 --> 00:51:34,075
anthropology, you know, be able to
travel and eat that, that to me would
:
1065
00:51:34,145 --> 00:51:36,384
be like, why does this culture do this?
:
1066
00:51:36,384 --> 00:51:38,555
This completely submit to
whatever culture you're in.
:
1067
00:51:38,735 --> 00:51:39,374
That would be right.
:
1068
00:51:39,575 --> 00:51:41,935
Stuart Zicherman: But I really
like, I really like I'm the opposite
:
1069
00:51:41,935 --> 00:51:45,395
of like whatever colonialist
was like, I love going places.
:
1070
00:51:45,685 --> 00:51:48,435
And like sinking into the
culture and whatever they do.
:
1071
00:51:49,055 --> 00:51:51,435
Um, and just pretending I'm not me.
:
1072
00:51:51,505 --> 00:51:53,945
Um, yeah, I would love that.
:
1073
00:51:54,605 --> 00:51:55,035
Marc Preston: Very cool.
:
1074
00:51:55,045 --> 00:51:57,735
Well, the last question I got for
you, let's say you got that DeLorean.
:
1075
00:51:57,745 --> 00:51:59,924
You can travel back to
when you were 16 years old.
:
1076
00:51:59,924 --> 00:52:02,624
You got a piece of advice
to make in that moment.
:
1077
00:52:02,624 --> 00:52:06,445
You're in, make that moment a little
bit better, easier, whatever, or maybe
:
1078
00:52:06,445 --> 00:52:07,665
put you on a little bit different path.
:
1079
00:52:07,685 --> 00:52:10,175
What would that advice
to 16 year old you be?
:
1080
00:52:10,905 --> 00:52:13,315
Stuart Zicherman: Oh man, just be patient.
:
1081
00:52:13,565 --> 00:52:18,175
You know, like, I mean, so much like
growing up and being hungry for things
:
1082
00:52:18,175 --> 00:52:23,235
and wanting to, you know, like I wanted
to travel and meet people and learn
:
1083
00:52:23,235 --> 00:52:27,595
things and go places and be a Hollywood
writer and I wanted to do so many
:
1084
00:52:27,615 --> 00:52:33,670
things and you, and, um, slowing down
to like, you know, Because once you
:
1085
00:52:33,790 --> 00:52:37,240
start to like do those things right,
you can't go back to not having them.
:
1086
00:52:37,570 --> 00:52:38,110
And it's like, yeah.
:
1087
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:40,840
Marc Preston: You know, just the, well,
isn't that part of our Jewish DNA where
:
1088
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:42,850
you kind of fuss over like, I wanna
make sure I'm doing the right thing.
:
1089
00:52:42,850 --> 00:52:42,851
Yeah.
:
1090
00:52:42,856 --> 00:52:43,480
Am I doing the thing?
:
1091
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:44,560
Am I doing, you know, it's
:
1092
00:52:44,765 --> 00:52:47,020
Stuart Zicherman: no, that's exact
that, that's a better way to put it.
:
1093
00:52:47,020 --> 00:52:48,280
It's like there is no right thing.
:
1094
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:51,100
Like you're gonna, yeah,
you're gonna go the wrong way.
:
1095
00:52:51,370 --> 00:52:52,360
You're gonna make mistakes.
:
1096
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:54,430
You're gonna like, it's
all part of the journey.
:
1097
00:52:54,790 --> 00:53:00,090
Yeah, I just, I, but I think that is just
such an intrinsic part of youth, you know?
:
1098
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:01,990
Marc Preston: Yeah, if you're not,
if you're afraid of messing up,
:
1099
00:53:01,990 --> 00:53:02,820
you're not playing the game right.
:
1100
00:53:03,140 --> 00:53:05,339
You know, I think you gotta, you
gotta make mistakes, fall on your
:
1101
00:53:05,339 --> 00:53:06,840
face, learn some things, you know?
:
1102
00:53:06,910 --> 00:53:09,829
Well, my friend, I, I really enjoyed the,
the, the opportunity to sit down with you.
:
1103
00:53:09,829 --> 00:53:10,479
It's such a pleasure.
:
1104
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:11,860
I appreciate you sharing
your time with me.
:
1105
00:53:11,860 --> 00:53:15,619
You're obviously a busy, busy guy and,
uh, hopefully, uh, we'll have a chance
:
1106
00:53:15,619 --> 00:53:16,689
to catch up down the line, my friend.
:
1107
00:53:16,950 --> 00:53:18,260
Stuart Zicherman: I really
appreciate you having me.
:
1108
00:53:18,260 --> 00:53:18,820
I really do.
:
1109
00:53:20,785 --> 00:53:23,045
Marc Preston: All right, there
you go, Stuart Zicherman.
:
1110
00:53:23,395 --> 00:53:28,325
A talented guy making all kinds
of TV, film, just a cool creative.
:
1111
00:53:28,605 --> 00:53:31,474
It's kind of cool to sit down and
talk to the folks who are behind
:
1112
00:53:31,474 --> 00:53:33,545
the camera on the creative side.
:
1113
00:53:33,735 --> 00:53:36,784
Now, I'm going to go and jump on
out of here because as I take a
:
1114
00:53:36,784 --> 00:53:41,075
peek behind me, I'm seeing Ranger,
our golden retriever puppy.
:
1115
00:53:41,075 --> 00:53:45,000
I say puppy, he's like, He's like, Eight
months old now, uh, somebody's mowing the
:
1116
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:48,850
yard outside and he is deeply intrigued
and wants to go out and see what's up.
:
1117
00:53:48,850 --> 00:53:51,680
So I'm going to take him out,
but, uh, before I get going, I
:
1118
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:56,439
want to remind you, please go to
story and craft pod slash rate.
:
1119
00:53:56,459 --> 00:53:58,600
Once again, story and craft pod.
:
1120
00:53:59,180 --> 00:54:02,750
com slash rate, uh, give you
an opportunity to drop a little
:
1121
00:54:02,750 --> 00:54:04,270
review, if you will, of the show.
:
1122
00:54:04,450 --> 00:54:08,030
I greatly appreciate those
drop some stars as well.
:
1123
00:54:08,060 --> 00:54:09,490
I mean stars are great.
:
1124
00:54:09,530 --> 00:54:13,540
I mean, it's kind of it's kind of
podcaster fuel You know, it's a way
:
1125
00:54:13,540 --> 00:54:17,120
to kind of throw a little bit of love
our way Also, make sure to follow the
:
1126
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:20,789
show, uh, you get notified every time
there's a new episode if you follow So
:
1127
00:54:20,789 --> 00:54:24,159
please do if you would uh now i'm gonna
go jump on out of here as I mentioned
:
1128
00:54:24,170 --> 00:54:26,930
because the pooch Well, it's patrol time.
:
1129
00:54:27,020 --> 00:54:30,810
We got to get on out I'm going to be back
soon with another episode, so I'm going
:
1130
00:54:30,810 --> 00:54:34,820
to talk to you then, and I want to thank
you again for making what I got going
:
1131
00:54:34,820 --> 00:54:36,840
on part of whatever you've got going on.
:
1132
00:54:37,050 --> 00:54:41,560
So enjoy the rest of your day, or
evening, or whatever you have going on.
:
1133
00:54:41,729 --> 00:54:44,550
I'll catch you next time,
right here on Story Craft.
:
1134
00:54:44,550 --> 00:54:47,160
Announcer: That's it for
this episode of Story Craft.
:
1135
00:54:47,390 --> 00:54:51,770
Join Marc next week for more
conversation, right here on Story Craft.
:
1136
00:54:52,220 --> 00:54:56,090
Story Craft is a presentation of
Marc Preston Productions, LLC.
:
1137
00:54:57,075 --> 00:54:59,425
Executive producer is Marc Preston.
:
1138
00:54:59,805 --> 00:55:02,235
Associate producer is Zachary Holden.
:
1139
00:55:02,595 --> 00:55:05,904
Please rate and review Story
Craft on Apple Podcasts.
:
1140
00:55:06,175 --> 00:55:10,614
Don't forget to subscribe to the
show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
:
1141
00:55:10,615 --> 00:55:12,045
or your favorite podcast app.
:
1142
00:55:12,305 --> 00:55:15,234
You can subscribe to show
updates and stay in the know.
:
1143
00:55:15,394 --> 00:55:17,655
Just head to storyandcraftpod.
:
1144
00:55:17,705 --> 00:55:19,515
com and sign up for the newsletter.
:
1145
00:55:20,095 --> 00:55:20,835
I'm Emma Dylan.
:
1146
00:55:21,545 --> 00:55:22,205
See you next time.
:
1147
00:55:22,375 --> 00:55:24,785
And remember, keep telling your story.
:
1148
00:55:25,510 --> 00:55:26,450
You