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FE6.8 - For Peat's Sake
Episode 816th December 2025 • Future Ecologies • Future Ecologies
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Bogs are our absolute favourite places to be. They’re not only tremendously important ecosystems, rich in exquisite biodiversity and massive stores of carbon, they’re also uniquely beautiful. These serene, colourful spaces jumble land and water into something at once both alien and familiar.

In this episode, we explore the wonders and the mysteries of peatlands, through the story of one very special (and threatened) bog just outside of the city of Vancouver. We meet the scientists who fought for its protection, and some of the folks who are studying it and working on restoring it to this day.

Plus, we answer a tricky question: should we still be extracting peat to help grow plants?

— — —

Visit futureecologies.net/listen/fe-6-8-for-peats-sake for photos from some of our boggy adventures, full credits, citations, and a transcript of this episode

🪼💖 This episode is sponsored by our amazing community of supporting listeners. If you appreciate it, you can become one yourself! Get the scoop at futureecologies.net/support

Transcripts

Introduction Voiceover:

You are listening to Season Six of

Introduction Voiceover:

Future Ecologies.

Mendel Skulski:

Test, test one, two, Bumblebee, tuna, rabble,

Mendel Skulski:

rabble, rhubarb, rhubarb, good to see ya. Okay, hi everybody! I

Mendel Skulski:

am Mendel.

Adam Huggins:

and I'm Adam

Mendel Skulski:

and today we're joined in the studio by... a red

Mendel Skulski:

legged frog!

Mendel Skulski:

...potentially more than one red legged frog.

Adam Huggins:

a chorus of randy red legged frogs, recorded with

Adam Huggins:

a hydrophone during their breeding season in February — in

Adam Huggins:

a half frozen wetland that I helped to restore a couple of

Adam Huggins:

years back.

Mendel Skulski:

Recorded with a hydrophone, because this species

Mendel Skulski:

only vocalizes underwater.

Adam Huggins:

Yeah, otherwise, they are pretty darn quiet.

Mendel Skulski:

They're adorable!

Adam Huggins:

And they make this sound all night long, like up to

Adam Huggins:

14 hours, pretty chatty for a creature few people ever get to

Adam Huggins:

hear

Mendel Skulski:

Yeah, for reasons, not just that so few of

Mendel Skulski:

us are underwater in February, but because the red legged frog

Mendel Skulski:

has been in steep decline for many years, due largely to the

Mendel Skulski:

loss of wetlands throughout their range.

Adam Huggins:

Which is one of the reasons why Mendel, you and

Adam Huggins:

I share a hobby in addition to making this show.

Mendel Skulski:

Yeah.

Adam Huggins:

Which is that we both work to restore wetlands.

Mendel Skulski:

Well, that's charitable. You work to restore

Mendel Skulski:

wetlands. I dabble in restoring wetland. That is, one little

Mendel Skulski:

urban wetland in my neighborhood in Vancouver.

Adam Huggins:

Yeah, it's a cute wetland, though.

Mendel Skulski:

I love it.

Adam Huggins:

And to do that, we have both had the opportunity to

Adam Huggins:

work with the same remarkable woman.

Robin Annschild:

What are we going to talk about?

Adam Huggins:

Well, the very first thing to do is to

Adam Huggins:

introduce yourself. Who are you?

Robin Annschild:

My name is Robin Ann's child, and I design

Robin Annschild:

and build wetland and stream restoration projects.

Mendel Skulski:

On any given day, you're likely to encounter

Mendel Skulski:

Robin up to her ankles in mud, sporting a hardhat and a

Mendel Skulski:

high-viz vest, orchestrating the actions of up to a half dozen

Mendel Skulski:

heavy machine operators — all working together to answer one

Mendel Skulski:

important question.

Robin Annschild:

what is it that we need to do in that watershed

Robin Annschild:

to restore a healthy relationship between the soil

Robin Annschild:

and the water?

Adam Huggins:

And the reason that this question is so

Adam Huggins:

important is that we humans, of the colonial variety, have

Adam Huggins:

seriously disrupted that relationship basically

Adam Huggins:

everywhere that we have settled. Across North America, over 50%

Adam Huggins:

of all wetlands have been lost since the 1700s and that loss

Adam Huggins:

has actually accelerated in recent years, despite no net

Adam Huggins:

loss policies and mitigation efforts. It's even worse in some

Adam Huggins:

areas, like where I'm from, in California, where over 90% of

Adam Huggins:

wetlands have been lost. In British Columbia, that number is

Adam Huggins:

closer to 70%

Mendel Skulski:

And when you say lost, you mean...

Adam Huggins:

Drained and converted for other uses.

Robin Annschild:

We have significant cultural amnesia

Robin Annschild:

about how we've changed these landscapes where we live. In

Robin Annschild:

Europe, where certainly my ancestors came from, there had

Robin Annschild:

already been centuries, if not millennia, of a really

Robin Annschild:

systematic and highly sophisticated wetland drainage.

Mendel Skulski:

Because wetland is usually flat, flat land is

Mendel Skulski:

good for building things.

Adam Huggins:

Wetland is also rich. Rich land is good for

Adam Huggins:

harvesting timber and growing crops

Mendel Skulski:

Industrializing societies all over the world

Mendel Skulski:

tend to take places that are wet, woody, rich and wild, and

Mendel Skulski:

reduce them to a blank slate for all kinds of development.

Robin Annschild:

Creating those uniform conditions across

Robin Annschild:

floodplains is kind of the bread and butter of our way of living

Robin Annschild:

on the landscape, simplifying streams so that instead of being

Robin Annschild:

broad and flat and flooding the floodplain, perhaps on an annual

Robin Annschild:

basis, they are now in deep ditches that flow down a

Robin Annschild:

straight line, you know, on the edge of the field. It never

Robin Annschild:

occurred to me that the very ditches that I played in as a

Robin Annschild:

child, I thought that those ditches had streams in them,

Robin Annschild:

really, they were ditches draining wetlands, and that

Robin Annschild:

water that I played in in those ditches was water being drained

Robin Annschild:

out of wetlands.

Adam Huggins:

I also have fond memories of playing in ditches

Adam Huggins:

as a kid on ag land that had once been in the flood plain of

Adam Huggins:

the San Joaquin River. The landscape changes that Robin is

Adam Huggins:

describing are ubiquitous.

Robin Annschild:

Everything that we have done when logging, road,

Robin Annschild:

building, mining, converting wetlands and floodplains to

Robin Annschild:

agriculture, has been about hastening the passage of the

Robin Annschild:

water through the watershed. And now what we're looking at is,

Robin Annschild:

well, now wait a minute, what if we wanted to invite that water

Robin Annschild:

to take a more leisurely path?

Mendel Skulski:

Many of our ancestors were trying to get the

Mendel Skulski:

water off the land as fast as possible, and now here we are

Mendel Skulski:

thinking the exact opposite. How do we keep the water on the land

Mendel Skulski:

for as long as possible?

Robin Annschild:

Wetlands, by their very nature, are dynamic

Robin Annschild:

ecosystems. One of the things that I find so exciting about

Robin Annschild:

wetland and stream restoration is that through a single action,

Robin Annschild:

we're achieving multiple benefits.

Mendel Skulski:

Like making habitat for endangered frogs,

Adam Huggins:

as discussed, and also to recharge aquifers

Adam Huggins:

sequester carbon, create fire breaks and mitigate the

Adam Huggins:

destructive power of floods.

Robin Annschild:

Wetlands absorb water. Imagine if you're running

Robin Annschild:

a bath, and you pull the plug. And of course, you know it takes

Robin Annschild:

whatever time it takes for the bath to drain, but it drains

Robin Annschild:

pretty quickly. Now, if you were to fill your bathtub with

Robin Annschild:

towels, put the plug in, fill it up, then remove the plug, it's

Robin Annschild:

going to take a lot longer for that bathtub to drain. So when

Robin Annschild:

you have a high rainfall event, instead of all that rain hitting

Robin Annschild:

the soil, the ground, the surfaces of your watershed and

Robin Annschild:

running out quite quickly, the wetland is like that towel in

Robin Annschild:

your bathtub that's absorbing all that water and it's

Robin Annschild:

releasing it more slowly. The cheapest way to prevent flooding

Robin Annschild:

is one to protect the wetlands that exist in your watershed,

Robin Annschild:

and two, to restore drained wetlands in the watershed. So if

Robin Annschild:

anything, we need more wetlands. We need more capacity to absorb

Robin Annschild:

and regulate flow of water and clean surface water and inject

Robin Annschild:

water into the ground.

Adam Huggins:

At this point, for me, this is gospel, but once

Adam Huggins:

Robin and the big yellow machines finish building the

Adam Huggins:

wetlands and they leave for greener pastures, then I'm left

Adam Huggins:

with the daunting task of getting native plants

Adam Huggins:

established again on these highly disturbed sites.

Adam Huggins:

Thankfully, my organization grows the plants that we need to

Adam Huggins:

do this, but there's been this thing nagging at me. In order to

Adam Huggins:

grow those plants as part of the soil mix, we typically use a

Adam Huggins:

product that most folks are probably familiar with. It's

Adam Huggins:

called peat.

Mendel Skulski:

You know, peat. Fluffy, porous, great for

Mendel Skulski:

growing blueberries, tasty in scotch, and famously, comes from

Mendel Skulski:

bogs,

Adam Huggins:

Bogs, which are, as a matter of fact, wetlands.

Mendel Skulski:

Is that a bit circular? That's a bit circular.

Adam Huggins:

It's not ideal. And so my colleagues and I have

Adam Huggins:

been asking ourselves this pesky question — whould we really

Adam Huggins:

still be using peat to grow our plants for restoration wetland

Adam Huggins:

restoration?

Mendel Skulski:

Seems like a simple question. How hard could

Mendel Skulski:

it be to answer?

Adam Huggins:

How hard indeed, well, on today's episode, For

Adam Huggins:

Peat's Sake, we tell the story of peatlands in North America

Adam Huggins:

through one remarkable wetland and attempt to answer a

Adam Huggins:

seemingly simple question. But you know what happens to simple

Adam Huggins:

questions around here, right?

Richard Hebda:

This sounds like it would be just an interesting

Richard Hebda:

sort of ecological exercise, right? But it became a very,

Richard Hebda:

very big political issue.

Mendel Skulski:

Come on in, the water's fine

Introduction Voiceover:

Broadcasting from the unceded, shared and

Introduction Voiceover:

asserted territories of the Musqueam, Squamish, and

Introduction Voiceover:

Tsleil-Waututh, this is Future Ecologies – exploring the shape

Introduction Voiceover:

of our world through ecology, design, and sound.

Adam Huggins:

To get to know peat, you have to get to know

Adam Huggins:

bogs. And so we're going to get all up in the business of the

Adam Huggins:

most charismatic bog that I know. If you were to visit

Adam Huggins:

Vancouver, nestled between the snow capped mountains of the

Adam Huggins:

coast ranges and the Salish Sea. First, you should say hi to

Adam Huggins:

Mendel.

Mendel Skulski:

I live here!

Adam Huggins:

And then you should head south across the

Adam Huggins:

north and south arms of the Fraser River through the suburb

Adam Huggins:

of Richmond, and you will see heavy industry highways,

Adam Huggins:

subdivisions, farmland, until you hit the largest undeveloped

Adam Huggins:

urban land mass in North America.

Mendel Skulski:

And you're thinking undeveloped... urban...

Mendel Skulski:

land mass, what does that mean?

Adam Huggins:

It's a good question. It basically means, I

Adam Huggins:

think, that it's a massive wild land in a major urban center,

Adam Huggins:

but that it's not a park. There is no public access here.

Mendel Skulski:

This undeveloped urban land mass is actually an

Mendel Skulski:

enormous, raised bog.

Adam Huggins:

A big, beautiful bog by the name of Burns. Burns

Adam Huggins:

Bog. And since it's nearly impossible to access for most

Adam Huggins:

people living here, Burns Bog is actually kind of a big black

Adam Huggins:

box. A big black box that every so often bursts into flames.

Adam Huggins:

News Announcer 1: Fire crews launched a rapid attack from the

Adam Huggins:

air and ground today in the hopes of knocking down a fast

Adam Huggins:

growing brush fire that sparked in Burns Bog along a stretch of

Adam Huggins:

Highway 17 in Delta.

Adam Huggins:

News Announcer 2: With an ecological treasure at risk,

Adam Huggins:

fire crews in Delta, BC, threw everything they had today at the

Adam Huggins:

flames in Burns Bog

Adam Huggins:

News Announcer 3: but it is a difficult fire to fight, and

Adam Huggins:

officials say that it could continue to burn for days.

Adam Huggins:

Man on the Street: Remember the big fire they had in 2005 in the

Adam Huggins:

bog, just hope it doesn't get as big.

Adam Huggins:

So what's going on here? Well, we've got our bog,

Adam Huggins:

and now what we need is our bog whisperer.

Mendel Skulski:

Sometimes with some stories, we have no idea

Mendel Skulski:

who to talk to first. But for this one, all roads lead back to

Mendel Skulski:

one man.

Richard Hebda:

My name is Richard Hebda, and I am the

Richard Hebda:

curator emeritus at the Royal British Columbia Museum and an

Richard Hebda:

adjunct faculty at the University of Victoria,

Richard Hebda:

historically, in the biology department the School of Earth

Richard Hebda:

and Ocean Sciences and School of Environmental Studies. With

Richard Hebda:

respect to Burns Bog, I was the government scientific expert on

Richard Hebda:

the ecosystem review for Burns Bog, 25 years ago.

Adam Huggins:

And I will say, just from my experience, it's

Adam Huggins:

hard to throw a rock around here without hitting one of your

Adam Huggins:

students or one of the students of one of your students.

Richard Hebda:

We hope people don't throw rocks at them,

Richard Hebda:

unless it's because they're doing very good things and that

Richard Hebda:

people are scurrilous rogues.

Mendel Skulski:

Don't throw rocks at Richard's students,

Mendel Skulski:

Adam.

Adam Huggins:

I would never! But long before, Richard had an

Adam Huggins:

impressive retinue of students, je was just a graduate student

Adam Huggins:

himself looking for a project.

Richard Hebda:

I had a background in Earth history and

Richard Hebda:

in botany. So when I came here, my supervisor of the day, Dr

Richard Hebda:

Glenn Rouse said, you know, there's this bog out there in

Richard Hebda:

the Fraser lowland. We don't know very much about it.

Adam Huggins:

And when a young scientist learns that we don't

Adam Huggins:

know much about a thing, it becomes almost irresistible.

Richard Hebda:

This was a particularly interesting,

Richard Hebda:

different sort of creature, as it turns out, because Burns Bog

Richard Hebda:

is a raised bog, and essentially raised bogs make their own

Richard Hebda:

environment and essentially create circumstances by which

Richard Hebda:

plants that are critical in peat accumulation can thrive and

Richard Hebda:

continue. So the whole idea was, well, when and where did it come

Richard Hebda:

from? How did it arise and sort of, how does it work?

Mendel Skulski:

These were the questions Richard said about

Mendel Skulski:

answering in his PhD.

Richard Hebda:

How did it get here? It's kind of simple in one

Richard Hebda:

way, the Fraser River brings in mud, and it filled in the

Richard Hebda:

shallow waters, and in doing so, those lands emerge, like the

Richard Hebda:

back of a whale out of the water, and in the process, as

Richard Hebda:

they emerge slowly, first being intertidal, seawater influence,

Richard Hebda:

freshwater influence. They go through a process of succession

Richard Hebda:

of change from lower intertidal plant communities through middle

Richard Hebda:

to upper intertidal freshwater marshes, as you see in the

Richard Hebda:

Fraser today, and then the organic matter accumulated as

Richard Hebda:

peat.

Mendel Skulski:

Peat, which is plants, all sorts of plants in a

Mendel Skulski:

state of arrested decomposition, because the wet conditions of

Mendel Skulski:

this bog in progress don't allow dead plants to fully break down

Mendel Skulski:

into soil.

Adam Huggins:

Which changes the surface chemistry, and that in

Adam Huggins:

turn, changes the plant communities that can grow there.

Adam Huggins:

First herbaceous plants and then later woody plants.

Richard Hebda:

So willows, red osier dogwoods, Pacific

Richard Hebda:

crabapple. And then those plant communities accumulate more

Richard Hebda:

peat, but now it's woody, and woody peat is much more acidic.

Adam Huggins:

And as things become increasingly acidic, the

Adam Huggins:

plant community changes again. With Labrador tea, bog

Adam Huggins:

cranberry, bog rosemary, cloudberry, and the star of the

Adam Huggins:

show — a whole retinue of colorful sphagnum mosses.

Mendel Skulski:

Ta da! That's the birth of a bog.

Richard Hebda:

And once the sphagnum mosses begin to

Richard Hebda:

establish, they have all sorts of amazing tricks of organic

Richard Hebda:

matter chemistry, of water regulation, of being able to

Richard Hebda:

grow in situations where there's very low nutrients because the

Richard Hebda:

peat's accumulating above the water table. And then they

Richard Hebda:

essentially convert this wetland into their own home, in which

Richard Hebda:

peat mosses thrive and dominate. And once you get into that, they

Richard Hebda:

just keep adding more peat and more peat, as their bodies don't

Richard Hebda:

break down, but as they die and only partially decompose and

Richard Hebda:

more sphagnum mosses grow.

Adam Huggins:

And over the course of about 4000 years,

Adam Huggins:

those remarkable non vascular plants, the sphagnum peat

Adam Huggins:

mosses, have essentially constructed a dome out of their

Adam Huggins:

own dead bodies, with a shallow living fringe on the surface.

Mendel Skulski:

And because it's higher in the middle than at the

Mendel Skulski:

edges, like a dome, it becomes... get ready for this,

Mendel Skulski:

ombrotrophic.

Adam Huggins:

Ombrotrophic.

Richard Hebda:

Ombrotrophic basically means rain fed. The

Richard Hebda:

nutrients that enter the bog that support the growth of all

Richard Hebda:

the plants and all the decomposers, and then all the

Richard Hebda:

animals that depend on them come from the sky, and that's because

Richard Hebda:

the bog itself is actually above the water table, so no water

Richard Hebda:

flows into it, because it's higher than everything else, and

Richard Hebda:

it drains radially outward from the center of the bog or —

Richard Hebda:

sometimes they have ridges outward — from the ridges to the

Richard Hebda:

margin. So the only source of water and the only source of

Richard Hebda:

nutrients is rainwater.

Adam Huggins:

But that's okay, because the sphagnum peat likes

Adam Huggins:

low nutrient conditions. And the other plants that grow there,

Adam Huggins:

they have unique adaptations to live in this environment. For

Adam Huggins:

example, they learn to hunt insects.

Richard Hebda:

Carnivorous plants are just amazing, because

Richard Hebda:

they're essentially an inside out stomach, they have the

Richard Hebda:

digestive juices on the outside, in the case of Sundews, on these

Richard Hebda:

little glands with little glistening drops of fluid on the

Richard Hebda:

ends of the glands, and those are your digestive juices. So

Richard Hebda:

imagine the stomach is outside dissolves insects that fall on

Richard Hebda:

it.

Mendel Skulski:

I love Sundews. What the hell... pitcher plants!

Adam Huggins:

I know we could have made the entire episode

Adam Huggins:

about them, but we're not going to do that.

Richard Hebda:

So that's how these plants get their nitrogen

Richard Hebda:

and the other nutrients that they need, because they don't

Richard Hebda:

get them out of the ground very much, because there aren't very

Richard Hebda:

much in an ombrotrophic bog.

Adam Huggins:

And these unusual plants support an abundance of

Adam Huggins:

wildlife.

Richard Hebda:

In my days, you know, almost 50 years ago, there

Richard Hebda:

were bears and deer and all kinds of other wildlife, much of

Richard Hebda:

which is no longer there —

Richard Hebda:

to see a Sandhill Crane just, you know, 15 feet away from you

Richard Hebda:

in a ditch, just all of a sudden erupt. A bunch of them erupt! —

Richard Hebda:

Like, oh my god, there's a black bear sitting in there, you know,

Richard Hebda:

10 feet away from eating berries. It doesn't even know

Richard Hebda:

I'm there —

Richard Hebda:

Then you see these majestic cranes, taking off as they do —

Richard Hebda:

because you don't make any noise when you walk on sphagnum. It's

Richard Hebda:

cushioned.

Richard Hebda:

It's being like, returned to the bosom of the bog. You are part

Richard Hebda:

of it, encased in part in it, cushioned by it, and you

Richard Hebda:

appreciate it in a way that's just exceptional. Because you

Richard Hebda:

hear the insects. You smell the smell of the bark, Labrador tea.

Richard Hebda:

You hear the birds like the Sandhill cranes, or the

Richard Hebda:

bumblebees flying around pollinating the cranberry

Richard Hebda:

flowers, these gorgeous, little pinkish cranberry flowers. You

Richard Hebda:

feel it, you smell it, you hear it, it's all there, and you feel

Richard Hebda:

as if you're part of it.

Mendel Skulski:

These are all reasons why, for Richard, bogs

Mendel Skulski:

are more than just ecosystems.

Richard Hebda:

The biosphere converts part of the Earth into

Richard Hebda:

essentially a superorganism. As we in our own bodies have

Richard Hebda:

systems that work together and feed each other and support each

Richard Hebda:

other, this macro organism, raised bog does exactly that

Richard Hebda:

same thing, the multitude of species and multitude of

Richard Hebda:

processes on a huge landscape, that's why I like bogs.

Mendel Skulski:

And Burns Bog is just one very southerly

Mendel Skulski:

representative of the bogosphere, if you will, a

Mendel Skulski:

patchwork that blankets the northern parts of the entire

Mendel Skulski:

world.

Adam Huggins:

Burns Bog is also representative of many bogs for

Adam Huggins:

another reason entirely. It has a long and complicated history

Adam Huggins:

of people trying to drain, farm, and fill it, because when

Adam Huggins:

European settlers arrived, they simply weren't content to let

Adam Huggins:

sleeping bogs lie.

Richard Hebda:

Settler history goes back to basically people

Richard Hebda:

trying to farm the land. They dug these ditches going into the

Richard Hebda:

bog, and they were visible when I was there, or that were

Richard Hebda:

invisible sometimes and you would just fall up to your waist

Richard Hebda:

in peat and water

Adam Huggins:

Kilometers and kilometers of ditches, just like

Adam Huggins:

those that we discussed with Robin earlier. Speaking of

Adam Huggins:

which, Mendel, you want to know how you can get a bog named

Adam Huggins:

after you?

Mendel Skulski:

Ooh, how?

Adam Huggins:

Try, mostly unsuccessfully, to get rid of

Adam Huggins:

it. Burns Bog is named after one Dominic Burns, a rancher who did

Adam Huggins:

his damnedest to drain it.

Richard Hebda:

And that sort of went on for a while, until the

Richard Hebda:

Second World War.

Mendel Skulski:

The Second World War, of course, interrupted all

Mendel Skulski:

sorts of settler agricultural activity and also created whole

Mendel Skulski:

new economies, including the use of peat moss for military first

Mendel Skulski:

aid.

Adam Huggins:

Antiseptic and absorbent.

Richard Hebda:

There was quite a bit of extraction at that time

Richard Hebda:

for basically military purposes, but eventually that became

Richard Hebda:

converted to the extraction of peat moss for horticultural

Richard Hebda:

purposes. And when that came around, then there was this huge

Richard Hebda:

extraction of peat from the middle of the bog. It's organic

Richard Hebda:

material. The peat, predominantly sphagnum peat, was

Richard Hebda:

removed so the heart of the bog was taken out. But like my bald

Richard Hebda:

head, there was active living peat communities all around the

Richard Hebda:

edges, and they essentially sustained the bog, even though

Richard Hebda:

the middle had been taken out, and maintained the water

Richard Hebda:

chemistry in the middle, so that the sphagnum mosses came back,

Richard Hebda:

essentially in a giant pool, or a giant reticulate network with

Richard Hebda:

ridges of peat that remained in open pools.

Mendel Skulski:

So I guess you can actually teach an old bog

Mendel Skulski:

new tricks.

Adam Huggins:

Yes. But meanwhile, more mischief was

Richard Hebda:

At the same time as the inside of the bog was

Richard Hebda:

afoot.

Richard Hebda:

being exploited, dug out, people were nibbling on the edges,

Richard Hebda:

converting — conversion irreversible.

Mendel Skulski:

All around the bog, chunks of the edges were

Mendel Skulski:

being developed.

Adam Huggins:

There was the railroad construction, and then

Adam Huggins:

the road road construction,

Richard Hebda:

A highway went through it, the one that the

Richard Hebda:

Alex Fraser Bridge, which, my opinion, never should have been

Richard Hebda:

allowed to be built the way it was, and the environmental

Richard Hebda:

assessment for it was utterly inadequate.

Mendel Skulski:

And then there are the cranberry farms.

Richard Hebda:

Some of it was converted to cranberry fields

Richard Hebda:

because cranberry fields have turned out to be very lucrative.

Adam Huggins:

and we'd be remiss not to mention the gigantic

Adam Huggins:

landfill for the City of Vancouver.

Richard Hebda:

One of my study sites is now under the dump.

Mendel Skulski:

Meanwhile, peat extraction technology was

Mendel Skulski:

advancing.

Richard Hebda:

Later on, when they got very sophisticated,

Richard Hebda:

they would just cut the trees off, and scrape it off and then

Richard Hebda:

suck the peat through giant vacuum cleaners.

Adam Huggins:

Incidentally, cranberries are also harvested

Adam Huggins:

by giant vacuum tubes. I have seen it myself.

Richard Hebda:

More sucking. There's a lot of sucking

Richard Hebda:

involved,

Adam Huggins:

And all of this draining and scraping and

Adam Huggins:

dumping and sucking kept eating away at the edges of the bog,

Adam Huggins:

but no one seemed to put it much of a fuss. Parts of it would

Adam Huggins:

periodically burst into flames. But like so what?

Richard Hebda:

It's just a bog. Who cares? Bog, three letter

Richard Hebda:

word for bad things. Because, of course, everybody thinks they're

Richard Hebda:

horrible places. They don't value them and they don't even

Richard Hebda:

understand them. They just throw more garbage on top of them.

Adam Huggins:

And some major industrial development proposals

Adam Huggins:

were floated for the bog.

Richard Hebda:

At that time, which was, I think, in the mid

Richard Hebda:

80s. The idea was they would dig the bog out and fill it with

Richard Hebda:

sand from dredging of the Fraser River, and then build a huge

Richard Hebda:

megaport.

Adam Huggins:

That didn't pan out. And so then a 2500 acre

Adam Huggins:

industrial development was proposed, and then a horse

Adam Huggins:

racing track, and then the Pacific National Exhibition, an

Adam Huggins:

amusement park, basically.

Mendel Skulski:

But by the 90s, some folks were beginning to

Mendel Skulski:

recognize the value of the bog and just how threatened the

Mendel Skulski:

remainder was.

Richard Hebda:

There was a very strong community group with very

Richard Hebda:

skilled and capable people and knowledge who could make the

Richard Hebda:

case that this place shouldn't be filled and turned and burned

Richard Hebda:

and whatever else.

Adam Huggins:

Finally, following years of public pressure and

Adam Huggins:

failed development proposals, the province of BC agreed to

Adam Huggins:

undertake an ecosystem review of Burns Bog, and they asked

Adam Huggins:

Richard to lead it, which initially he was hesitant to do.

Richard Hebda:

But the bog had spoken to me a long time before,

Richard Hebda:

and I thought, okay, well, I owe it to this, these creatures,

Richard Hebda:

this amazing place, which gave me my future, which gave me my

Richard Hebda:

job, and has sustained me, has supported my curiosity. I am at

Richard Hebda:

one with the bog, and therefore, if I am at one with the bog,

Richard Hebda:

then I must be the bog. That's the way I looked at it. So I

Richard Hebda:

said, I'll do it.

Mendel Skulski:

And to make a long story short, he and a

Mendel Skulski:

handful of other scientists did it! In just eight months.

Richard Hebda:

You know, I pulled it off. I did it exactly

Richard Hebda:

as it should be done in open public forum, with the

Richard Hebda:

scientists reporting — people like Ian McTaggart Cowan, who

Richard Hebda:

was just unbelievably powerful when he came. Now, Ian McTaggart

Richard Hebda:

was the zoologist of British Columbia, a tall man with a

Richard Hebda:

powerful voice, and he just said that red mouse — the red back

Richard Hebda:

vole — that red mouse, the last time it was seen in British

Richard Hebda:

Columbia was in the UBC endowment lands. And I and my

Richard Hebda:

wife saw it in the late 1940s.

Adam Huggins:

When the report was finally published, the

Adam Huggins:

conclusion was stunning. It stated that the vast majority of

Adam Huggins:

the remaining bog area, over 2000 hectares, would be required

Adam Huggins:

to preserve its viability and sustain its processes. And when

Adam Huggins:

it came down to it, Richard was called upon once again, this

Adam Huggins:

time by the lawyers, to actually delineate the area that would

Adam Huggins:

ultimately be protected, which was a real crisis for him as a

Adam Huggins:

scientist.

Richard Hebda:

At that point, I truly understood that you cannot

Richard Hebda:

be an objective, dispassionate scientist. You cannot be one.

Richard Hebda:

Just as we face the future of climate change, we have to make

Richard Hebda:

the choices and the decisions and not leave for the government

Richard Hebda:

to make or for an industry to make. We have to work to make

Richard Hebda:

the best decisions that are possible, and so I did it. So I

Richard Hebda:

drew the lines.

Mendel Skulski:

And from those lines would eventually emerge

Mendel Skulski:

the Burns Bog Ecological Conservancy Area, managed by

Mendel Skulski:

Metro Vancouver and the City of Delta to maintain it in

Mendel Skulski:

perturity. The bog had been drained and sucked, battered and

Mendel Skulski:

bruised, but now it had a fighting chance at life.

Richard Hebda:

You know, why would you fill it and kill it?

Richard Hebda:

Why would you not think of it as one of the most biologically

Richard Hebda:

spiritual creations on the Planet Earth.

Adam Huggins:

The fate of one of the most biologically spiritual

Adam Huggins:

creations on Planet Earth, and I promise eventually an answer to

Adam Huggins:

our question about peat. That's after the break. Now, if you

Adam Huggins:

excuse me, I have to go see a man about a bog.

Mendel Skulski:

Hey, if you're enjoying the show, check out

Mendel Skulski:

futureecologies.net/support — thanks!

Adam Huggins:

Driving down this old gravel road. On my left,

Adam Huggins:

Burns Bog. On the right, cranberry farm, actively

Adam Huggins:

harvesting... group of men out in waders, water up to their

Adam Huggins:

waists, with a giant vacuum hose sucking the cranberries that are

Adam Huggins:

floating off of the water surface and into a giant bin.

Adam Huggins:

Wild. And another gate. I think this is the third gate. Gates

Adam Huggins:

everywhere.

Mendel Skulski:

Wait, I didn't get to go along for this ride. I

Mendel Skulski:

feel so left out. I thought you said members of the public

Mendel Skulski:

couldn't actually get in to Burns Bog.

Adam Huggins:

I mean, they generally can't, except for a

Adam Huggins:

tiny piece called The Delta Nature Reserve, which is nice to

Adam Huggins:

visit if you can. But I am no ordinary member of the general

Adam Huggins:

public, Mendel. I have special clearance — from a friend who

Adam Huggins:

got me inside.

Adam Huggins:

I don't think I have ever eaten a fresh cranberry right off a

Adam Huggins:

bush.

Drew Elves:

Not a cultivar.

Adam Huggins:

This is native?

Drew Elves:

Yeah.

Adam Huggins:

that is delicious

Drew Elves:

Tart though, huh?

Adam Huggins:

Oh, but I love things that are sour. Oh my god.

Drew Elves:

That's good.

Adam Huggins:

I love sour things.

Mendel Skulski:

Ah, yes. You were there to see your good

Mendel Skulski:

friend... the cranberry.

Adam Huggins:

Of course, and my colleague, Drew Elves.

Drew Elves:

I teach at University of Victoria in the

Drew Elves:

Restoration of Natural Systems program and in the School of

Drew Elves:

Environmental Studies. I am ecohydrologist by training, a

Drew Elves:

peatland ecohydrologist with a focus on sphagnum mosses.

Adam Huggins:

So I'm standing out there in the bog with Drew,

Adam Huggins:

bobbing up and down on this thick mat of peat in the sun.

Mendel Skulski:

No, I'm not jealous. Thanks for asking.

Adam Huggins:

And we're looking at this wild variety of colors

Adam Huggins:

all around us.

Drew Elves:

Like, we're looking at this field right now, and

Drew Elves:

there's a cornucopia of color, right? There are so many greens,

Drew Elves:

so many reds, so many buffs.

Adam Huggins:

And these colors we're seeing, they tend to

Adam Huggins:

correspond to different species of sphagnum moss.

Drew Elves:

There are 12 documented species

Adam Huggins:

Growing in slightly different parts of the

Adam Huggins:

mossy landscape, the hummocks and the hollows.

Drew Elves:

The ones that make the hummocks, they are slow

Drew Elves:

growing and they're recalcitrant, meaning they don't

Drew Elves:

readily decompose. These recalcitrant hummock species are

Drew Elves:

really resilient. They can take up water and stay moist much

Drew Elves:

further into the drought period than hollow forming species. The

Drew Elves:

Hollow forming species, though, they'll grow really fast, but

Drew Elves:

then they don't have the specific phenolics, meaning they

Drew Elves:

don't have those chemicals that impede breaking down. They're

Drew Elves:

not robust in that way. They decay.

Mendel Skulski:

Tag yourself. I'm the not-so-resilient fast

Mendel Skulski:

grower.

Adam Huggins:

I'm recalcitrant, slow and stubborn all the way.

Drew Elves:

So it's two very different traits. One's a hare,

Drew Elves:

one's a tortoise. The hare are the hollow growing species.

Drew Elves:

They'll grow really fast during a time when moisture conditions

Drew Elves:

are right and temperature conditions are right, and

Drew Elves:

they'll grow really quickly. So because of that, they are

Drew Elves:

lateral growers. Whereas these hummocks, they slowly build up.

Drew Elves:

They have this like apical bud, meaning a topmost layer where

Drew Elves:

they keep growing from. And so they just keep growing higher

Drew Elves:

and higher.

Adam Huggins:

So it's a beautiful, diverse bog scene.

Adam Huggins:

But at the same time, this is a part of the bog that was

Adam Huggins:

harvested and prepared to be a cranberry farm before it was

Adam Huggins:

abandoned. It's still recovering from that disturbance.

Drew Elves:

The hydrology has been brought back to within

Drew Elves:

historical bounds, and that means that peat forming

Drew Elves:

processes have been reinitiated

Adam Huggins:

and Drew is there studying that recovery.

Mendel Skulski:

How is he doing that?

Adam Huggins:

With light and a very, very nice camera pointed

Adam Huggins:

directly at the ground.

Drew Elves:

We can take the properties of light. The sun

Drew Elves:

comes in, and it encodes a lot of information, especially for

Drew Elves:

plants and photosynthetic organisms, right? What they use,

Drew Elves:

what they take. Meaning, what part of the sun's light that

Drew Elves:

they use at different times of year, and then what they reflect

Drew Elves:

back can tell us a lot about what's happening underneath.

Adam Huggins:

And just as a very basic example, when sphagnum

Adam Huggins:

moss gets dry, it tends to turn white, and that increases the

Adam Huggins:

albedo of the bog, helping reflect sunlight and cool things

Adam Huggins:

down a bit. That's something that we can see with just our

Adam Huggins:

eyeballs, but Drew is looking at what we can learn with better

Adam Huggins:

equipment than what nature gave any of us.

Drew Elves:

The affordances we have in terms of our vision,

Drew Elves:

they're not entirely objective, right? I often tell students,

Drew Elves:

you know, remember that dress?

Adam Huggins:

You know the dress, right Mendel?

Mendel Skulski:

Ah the dress, of course I do. It's obviously

Mendel Skulski:

black and blue.

Adam Huggins:

Oh no, it's clearly white and gold.

Adam Huggins:

What color was the dress?

Drew Elves:

I don't answer that question, because I think as a

Drew Elves:

lot of people who have a significant other, it may be led

Drew Elves:

to a bit of acrimony, and so I'm not going to say what color the

Drew Elves:

dress was.

Adam Huggins:

So instead of relying on his merely human

Adam Huggins:

vision, Drew is using the NDVI.

Mendel Skulski:

The what?

Drew Elves:

The Normalized Difference Vegetation Index. So

Drew Elves:

that's where it goes from being the dress and being subjective,

Drew Elves:

to being something that's standardized and reproducible

Drew Elves:

and decipherable.

Adam Huggins:

And I brought us here just to say that this is a

Adam Huggins:

lot of what goes on in the black box of Burns Bog. It's basic

Adam Huggins:

science — developing techniques to better understand all bogs,

Adam Huggins:

by studying the recovery of this bog.

Mendel Skulski:

That's so cool. And you know, how are things

Mendel Skulski:

going?

Adam Huggins:

Well, we did mention that the bog

Adam Huggins:

occasionally erupts into flames, right?

Mendel Skulski:

We did.

Adam Huggins:

And that's because those kilometers and kilometers

Adam Huggins:

of ditches and roads crisscrossing the bog, many of

Adam Huggins:

them are still actively draining it, drying it out. And a big

Adam Huggins:

pile of dead dry peat is a magnet for wildfire. This is the

Adam Huggins:

primary reason why the public isn't allowed in the bog.

Mendel Skulski:

Sure that makes sense.

Adam Huggins:

But in addition to researchers, there are also

Adam Huggins:

folks in here looking after the bog, and so I caught up with a

Adam Huggins:

couple of them on a group field trip on a freezing cold, rainy

Adam Huggins:

day. You're actually going to hear the raindrops hitting the

Adam Huggins:

microphone, and I just want you to know that every single one of

Adam Huggins:

them felt like frostbite on my hand.

Mendel Skulski:

Thank you for your service.

Adam Huggins:

It is also on the flight path of the Vancouver

Adam Huggins:

International Airport, and so there was so much plane noise.

Markus Merkens:

I'm Markus Merkens. I'm a Regional Parks

Markus Merkens:

Biologist, and I've been working in the bog for the past 15 and a

Markus Merkens:

half years, trying to take care of the bog the best I can. I'm

Markus Merkens:

gonna pass over to Sarah here.

Sarah Howie:

Sarah Howie, Climate Action and Environment

Sarah Howie:

Manager with the City of Delta. I've been working in the bog

Sarah Howie:

since the year 2000, and Markus and I co-manage the bog.

Adam Huggins:

And without much further ado, they ushered us

Adam Huggins:

into the bog.

Sarah Howie:

If you see what looks like a mud puddle, don't

Sarah Howie:

step there, because it's basically a sinkhole and you

Sarah Howie:

will fall in. That would be a fun experience for you, but we'd

Sarah Howie:

rather you not have to deal with that, so you can just step on

Sarah Howie:

the vegetation instead. It'll keep you afloat.

Markus Merkens:

Bogs are incredibly complex ecosystems,

Markus Merkens:

and to quote a professor of mine at UBC, bog ecology isn't rocket

Markus Merkens:

science, it's way more complicated than that.

Adam Huggins:

Markus told us that the peat in Burns Bog is

Adam Huggins:

five to eight meters thick, and to demonstrate, he pulled out a

Adam Huggins:

Russian peat auger.

Markus Merkens:

So I've just taken a core sample of the bog.

Markus Merkens:

This peat is about a meter and a half below ground. This was

Markus Merkens:

sequestered at a time when the Vikings were exploring the

Markus Merkens:

eastern coast of North America. That's how long ago this was

Markus Merkens:

laid down.

Markus Merkens:

Bog tour participant: Welcome back to the sunlight.

Adam Huggins:

So Mendel, as you know, normally, bogs are too wet

Adam Huggins:

for anything but a few stunted trees to grow. But where we were

Adam Huggins:

walking, there were hundreds of dead burnt out tree trunks, and

Adam Huggins:

beneath them, thousands of stout little pine saplings.

Markus Merkens:

If you look around us, you can see these

Markus Merkens:

burnt out trees. These are the trees that release the cones and

Markus Merkens:

seeds post fire. And if you look behind me, you can see the

Markus Merkens:

lodgepole pine stand very dense. If you have six trees in a

Markus Merkens:

square meter or square yard, you have 60,000 stems per hectare.

Markus Merkens:

So that's, that's a huge number of trees.

Mendel Skulski:

Oh, my God. What is it with us and this season

Mendel Skulski:

and cataloging the density of stands of trees?

Adam Huggins:

I have no idea. Honestly, it is a through line.

Adam Huggins:

There were a lot of pines there.

Mendel Skulski:

Yeah, what's up with that?

Adam Huggins:

Well, when you start draining a bog, you make

Adam Huggins:

it a lot easier for trees to grow, because it was the water

Adam Huggins:

level that was keeping them out. And when trees start growing,

Adam Huggins:

they start transpiring water. Lots and lots of that water.

Markus Merkens:

Trees are hydrological pumps. Pine is a

Markus Merkens:

weaker pump than other species, but in the aggregate, 60,000

Markus Merkens:

stems per hectare push a lot of water out of the bog.

Adam Huggins:

They suck water out of the ground.

Mendel Skulski:

More sucking

Adam Huggins:

And then things get even drier still, and then

Adam Huggins:

they catch fire and burn. And then the seed cones open, and

Adam Huggins:

1000s more trees start to grow, and the vicious cycle continues.

Mendel Skulski:

So what are they doing about it?

Markus Merkens:

We physically remove by hand trees, now over a

Markus Merkens:

19 hectare, or almost 50 acre section of the burn that

Markus Merkens:

happened, which was 37 hectares within the conservancy area. So

Markus Merkens:

very labor intensive.

Adam Huggins:

They rip up and pile the trees. I pulled a few

Adam Huggins:

myself just to be helpful. You know?

Adam Huggins:

Oh, that is delicious.

Mendel Skulski:

...Are you eating cranberries again?

Adam Huggins:

Possibly, but more to the point, the trees are only

Adam Huggins:

one part of the problem. Those old settler drainage ditches are

Adam Huggins:

still doing their thing.

Mendel Skulski:

Ouch.

Adam Huggins:

And as the bog is drying out, especially at the

Adam Huggins:

edges, the peat is subsiding away as it's being oxidized,

Adam Huggins:

with all of that carbon going back up into the atmosphere.

Mendel Skulski:

Whoa. It's kind of like the bog is still

Mendel Skulski:

burning, only on a slower time scale.

Adam Huggins:

Yeah, you could definitely look at it that way.

Adam Huggins:

And this edge of the bog, also known as the lagg, is where

Adam Huggins:

organic peat meets the surrounding mineral soils. As

Adam Huggins:

Richard told me, it's really important.

Richard Hebda:

You can't have a bog without a lagg. Essentially,

Richard Hebda:

the lagg is kind of like that transitional skin on your body.

Richard Hebda:

If you don't have that, if you just cut into the tissue and

Richard Hebda:

expose the raw flesh, you die, you scar right. The more cuts,

Richard Hebda:

the more it's bleeding, the less chance it has to survive. And so

Richard Hebda:

we need to stop the loss of water, in this case, the life

Richard Hebda:

blood of the bog.

Adam Huggins:

Fortunately, Sarah Howie is an expert on laggs and

Adam Huggins:

how to revive them.

Sarah Howie:

So Markus has been talking about his big tree

Sarah Howie:

seedling removal project. My project that I've been working

Sarah Howie:

on for 20 years is restoring the water table in the bog. So

Sarah Howie:

there's about 100 kilometers of drainage ditches that were put

Sarah Howie:

into the bog during the peat harvesting days. So we're trying

Sarah Howie:

to reverse that and stop those ditches from draining. So we've

Sarah Howie:

got these dams, about 479 dams, and almost all of them were

Sarah Howie:

built by hand, by people carrying materials and shovels

Sarah Howie:

into the bog, digging borrow pits of peat, filling the dams

Sarah Howie:

with peat, and actually using Coroplast boards like these

Sarah Howie:

ones, recycled election signs.

Mendel Skulski:

Election signs?

Adam Huggins:

Yes, even bog restoration is political,

Adam Huggins:

Mendel.

Unknown:

After we would have a local election, they were really

Unknown:

just going to dispose of them anyway, and so, yeah, they're

Unknown:

buried. They're basically like sheet piling, and we use them to

Unknown:

block the flow of water in the ditches and then cover it with

Unknown:

peat so that the plastic is not exposed. It's buried basically

Unknown:

forever in the peat.

Adam Huggins:

Sarah says this works so well because the signs

Adam Huggins:

are really light and pretty tough, you can carry them into

Adam Huggins:

the bog on your back and create permanent ditch blocks.

Sarah Howie:

And because we have to, you know, walk for

Sarah Howie:

kilometers sometimes to get to the places where we're working,

Sarah Howie:

that's the best material. And we actually ran this by our

Sarah Howie:

scientific advisory panel before deciding to put this plastic in

Sarah Howie:

the bog and and they said, because it's going to be buried

Sarah Howie:

essentially forever in the bog, it's inert. It's not

Sarah Howie:

contributing chemicals or nutrients. I mean, I don't love

Sarah Howie:

the idea of putting plastic out there, but it's buried, and it's

Sarah Howie:

not damaging the bog in any way.

Mendel Skulski:

I guess sometimes practicality comes

Mendel Skulski:

before romance. Are they also using, like, big heavy machinery

Mendel Skulski:

excavators, like Robin?

Adam Huggins:

At times, yeah.

Sarah Howie:

It's actually the same excavator operator that was

Sarah Howie:

working for the peat harvesting folks, and now he's helping us

Sarah Howie:

with restoration.

Adam Huggins:

Sarah told me that they've basically blocked off

Adam Huggins:

most of the ditches in the center of the bog, and so she's

Adam Huggins:

turned her attention to the lagg.

Sarah Howie:

The next goal is to restore the edge, and that's

Sarah Howie:

probably going to take me to the end of my career.

Adam Huggins:

But that's all right, because, as Richard told

Adam Huggins:

us, they have a 100 year restoration plan in place for

Adam Huggins:

the bog, and we're just a quarter of the way into it.

Richard Hebda:

I think that in the 25 years that we've been

Richard Hebda:

doing this work and gathering more knowledge, it's as well and

Richard Hebda:

better than I had hoped for.

Adam Huggins:

You can see that, especially in the middle of the

Adam Huggins:

bog.

Sarah Howie:

The water levels are generally where they're

Sarah Howie:

supposed to be, within about half a meter of the surface,

Adam Huggins:

But we are not out of the woods yet, not by a long

Adam Huggins:

shot.

Sarah Howie:

The other issue that we're dealing with is

Sarah Howie:

climate change. So we've re-wetted the bog, we've raised

Sarah Howie:

the water table, and now we're getting drier summers, and so

Sarah Howie:

it's much hotter, and the water table is dropping.

Adam Huggins:

And so Sarah will continue blocking ditches, and

Adam Huggins:

Markus will keep removing trees, and Drew and other researchers

Adam Huggins:

will continue to study the system, and hopefully, in the

Adam Huggins:

meantime, the bog doesn't go up in smoke.

Mendel Skulski:

So it's great to hear that some level of recovery

Mendel Skulski:

is possible, right? At least on a 100 year time scale. But it's

Mendel Skulski:

clear that harvesting the peat from this bog, along with other

Mendel Skulski:

disturbances, has had a pretty profoundly negative impact.

Adam Huggins:

Which brings us back to the question that we

Adam Huggins:

started with. Can we justify harvesting peat from bogs so

Adam Huggins:

that we can use it to grow plants, say, native plants for

Adam Huggins:

restoration?

Mendel Skulski:

To answer that question, we needed to talk to

Mendel Skulski:

one more person.

Line Rochefort:

My name is Line Rochefort, Professor in

Line Rochefort:

Restoration Ecology, holding a chair in Ecosystem Restoration,

Line Rochefort:

and also I'm the North American national expert at the RAMSAR

Line Rochefort:

Convention.

Mendel Skulski:

Line is widely recognized as Canada's leading

Mendel Skulski:

expert on peatland restoration

Line Rochefort:

Canada, in terms of managing, caring for

Line Rochefort:

peatlands has a world responsibility, because we have

Line Rochefort:

a lot of carbon stock in our peatland, 34% of all the

Line Rochefort:

peatlands in the world are in Canada.

Mendel Skulski:

followed by 33% in Russia. So between our two

Mendel Skulski:

circumboreal nations, there are two thirds of the world's

Mendel Skulski:

peatland, which is a lot of carbon. Now Lynn is quick to

Mendel Skulski:

point out that peatland destruction is a serious issue

Mendel Skulski:

at a global and a regional level, especially in the more

Mendel Skulski:

developed parts of southern Canada.

Adam Huggins:

Like the Fraser Valley, where Burns Bog is

Adam Huggins:

located.

Mendel Skulski:

But overall, she says of Canada's total 128

Mendel Skulski:

million hectares of peatland, only a tiny fraction have been

Mendel Skulski:

directly impacted, estimated at less than 2%

Adam Huggins:

These and the numbers that follow are from the

Adam Huggins:

2022 UN Global Peatlands Assessment, by the way.

Line Rochefort:

So in Canada, if we go by order of impacts

Line Rochefort:

through time, we have drained for agriculture, 1.3 million

Line Rochefort:

hectares of peatland.

Adam Huggins:

About and after agriculture, the next biggest

Adam Huggins:

impact to Canadian peatlands is actually the fossil fuel

Adam Huggins:

industry.

Line Rochefort:

Second in line is the oil and gas and we don't

Line Rochefort:

have national statistics about all our impacts, but we do know

Line Rochefort:

that it's about 400,000 hectare. So, it's an order of magnitude

Line Rochefort:

less than what happened with agriculture.

Mendel Skulski:

And after fossil energy, next comes hydro

Mendel Skulski:

electricity.

Line Rochefort:

Hydro dams. So a lot of flooding in peatland rich

Line Rochefort:

area, be it in Quebec, Newfoundland, Manitoba,

Mendel Skulski:

And then it's good old fashioned drainage.

Line Rochefort:

Some drainage for forestry, for urban

Line Rochefort:

expansion, road development.

Adam Huggins:

And finally, we have the subject of our inquiry,

Adam Huggins:

peat extraction for peat extraction's sake.

Line Rochefort:

One of the least is using it for peat. Since

Line Rochefort:

1931, about 38,000 hectare.

Adam Huggins:

In other words, the area of peatland that has

Adam Huggins:

been impacted by harvesting for horticultural uses is absolutely

Adam Huggins:

dwarfed by the area impacted by agriculture, oil and gas and

Adam Huggins:

other forms of development, all of which has only impacted a

Adam Huggins:

small portion of the bogs in Canada. But even so, when you go

Adam Huggins:

to the store and buy a bag of peat, chances are good that it's

Adam Huggins:

coming from right here in Canada.

Line Rochefort:

Canada is one of the biggest peat producer in the

Line Rochefort:

world. The use of peat in Canada is really in horticulture. 85%

Line Rochefort:

is sold in the United States. It's for the professional grower

Line Rochefort:

in greenhouses, cucumber, green pepper, tomatoes and the

Line Rochefort:

mushroom industry.

Adam Huggins:

So for Canada, peat is largely an export

Adam Huggins:

industry. Historically, some of that peat was harvested from

Adam Huggins:

bogs in Western Canada, like Burns Bog, especially after the

Adam Huggins:

Second World War. But for the most part today, that peat is

Adam Huggins:

coming from the vast boreal peatlands of central and eastern

Adam Huggins:

Canada. And before we continue, it's important to mention that

Adam Huggins:

much of Line's research has been funded and undertaken in

Adam Huggins:

partnership with the horticultural peat industry —

Adam Huggins:

something that she is proud of.

Line Rochefort:

What I would say is that it's an industry that

Line Rochefort:

really care about managing the resource, because it's really

Line Rochefort:

their living and usually they are family based, type of

Line Rochefort:

companies also the been investing since the end of the

Line Rochefort:

80s to develop peatland restoration measure or to manage

Line Rochefort:

better. I have always been a big believer that it's good that

Line Rochefort:

more biologists, environmentalists and on that

Line Rochefort:

should work with industry to find solutions.

Mendel Skulski:

So Line is sympathetic to her industry

Mendel Skulski:

partners. And to be fair, they've come a long way

Mendel Skulski:

together.

Line Rochefort:

Before I started, nobody knew how to

Line Rochefort:

manipulate masses on a large scale with machines without

Line Rochefort:

killing everything.

Adam Huggins:

To address this, Line and her colleagues in the

Adam Huggins:

Peatland Ecology Research Group eventually developed what has

Adam Huggins:

become known internationally as the Moss Layer Transfer

Adam Huggins:

Technique. To make a long story short.

Line Rochefort:

Uh... it's very technical, but in peatlands, we

Line Rochefort:

have two hydrological layer one is called the acrotelm, the

Line Rochefort:

other one the catatelm.

Adam Huggins:

The catatelm is the thick mass of dead peat

Adam Huggins:

that's typically below the water table and storing most of the

Adam Huggins:

carbon.

Mendel Skulski:

And the acrotelm is the thinner layer composed

Mendel Skulski:

largely of living peat on the surface, kind of like your skin.

Mendel Skulski:

No wait, kind of the opposite of your skin. Kind of like a tree.

Mendel Skulski:

Wait, no, kind of the opposite of a tree. It's pretty

Mendel Skulski:

different.

Adam Huggins:

Yeah. So it's the first 10 or so centimeters of

Adam Huggins:

the acrotelm

Line Rochefort:

Where there's all the propagules — spores,

Line Rochefort:

seeds.

Adam Huggins:

Everything you need to catalyze the recovery of

Adam Huggins:

a bog that's been harvested.

Line Rochefort:

Once you have a peatland that's been drained for

Line Rochefort:

maybe 20 years, we need, usually to reprofile to a fresh peat,

Line Rochefort:

because we really need to have a good contact by capillary rise

Line Rochefort:

of the water.

Adam Huggins:

And so the top 10 centimeters of acrotelm is

Adam Huggins:

collected from a donor site, usually the next site to be

Adam Huggins:

harvested, and then is spread on top of the restoration site.

Line Rochefort:

So once we spread all our material, then we

Line Rochefort:

need to protect it with a straw mulch. Usually that we use, it's

Line Rochefort:

to create a microclimate, because the mosses have no

Line Rochefort:

roots.

Mendel Skulski:

And in addition to straw mulch, they add

Mendel Skulski:

phosphorus.

Line Rochefort:

Because phosphorus is good. It's not

Line Rochefort:

necessarily there to help the sphagnum, but it's another moss

Line Rochefort:

that we need a nursing plan. We call it polytrichum.

Adam Huggins:

Go into any bog, and amidst all that fluffy

Adam Huggins:

sphagnum, you're likely to see other mosses, including the

Adam Huggins:

pointier polytrichum, looking like a miniature palm tree. Or

Adam Huggins:

as Line calls them, little aloes.

Line Rochefort:

Or pineapple, because they have all these

Line Rochefort:

spikes along the edge.

Adam Huggins:

I found this aspect particularly fascinating.

Adam Huggins:

Line and her colleagues have discovered that a little bit of

Adam Huggins:

phosphorus really helps polytrichum to establish in the

Adam Huggins:

transplanted sphagnum. And this polytrichum is much taller than

Adam Huggins:

the sphagnum

Line Rochefort:

So that's why, if you get this polytrichum,

Line Rochefort:

nice carpet to establish, then it binds the peat and also

Line Rochefort:

creates a nice microclimate.

Adam Huggins:

And that miniature forest of polytrichum protects

Adam Huggins:

the sphagnum moss from destruction through frost

Adam Huggins:

heaving, which otherwise can be really damaging in northern

Adam Huggins:

climates.

Line Rochefort:

The sphagnum survive there, like, you know,

Line Rochefort:

in the shadow, but they take over because they are a

Line Rochefort:

co-engineer type of organism.

Mendel Skulski:

That's so cool.

Adam Huggins:

Yep. And then the last step, you re-wet the bog.

Line Rochefort:

You have to re wet. You have to block the

Line Rochefort:

ditches.

Mendel Skulski:

And that's about it. Presto. There's a functional

Mendel Skulski:

bog, once again.

Line Rochefort:

Yes, we do get the bog at the end of it, we

Line Rochefort:

have a rate of 75% success.

Adam Huggins:

Based on Line's monitoring work. It takes about

Adam Huggins:

nine to 12 years for the bog to once again become a carbon sink,

Adam Huggins:

and about 20 years to fully offset the carbon cost of the

Adam Huggins:

restoration.

Line Rochefort:

The biodiversity in terms of vascular plants, we

Line Rochefort:

know that after five years, we're getting 82% back. What

Line Rochefort:

does not come back easily is like orchids, but you know, they

Line Rochefort:

have a complicated reproductive cycle.

Mendel Skulski:

So it's pretty good, but not perfect.

Adam Huggins:

Restoration just never is. But as far as Line is

Adam Huggins:

concerned,

Line Rochefort:

in Canada, sphagnum-dominated peatland

Line Rochefort:

restoration is close to a solved problem.

Adam Huggins:

She's now turned her attention to the restoration

Adam Huggins:

of fens, which are a different kind of peatland, and to

Adam Huggins:

mitigating the impacts of wildfire on peatlands, which is

Adam Huggins:

an emerging and very pressing issue.

Mendel Skulski:

Yes, so to return to our question, what

Mendel Skulski:

does Line think about using peat for restoration and for

Mendel Skulski:

horticulture?

Line Rochefort:

Well, I see peat. It's a bit hard to replace

Line Rochefort:

for now, I think we should not stop ourselves from finding

Line Rochefort:

solution of other growing substrate.

Adam Huggins:

But she argues, all of the alternatives

Adam Huggins:

currently on the market have their own issues. Wood chips,

Adam Huggins:

for example, are not a great replacement.

Line Rochefort:

Productivity when you're using just wood

Line Rochefort:

chips goes down quickly, when you don't have at least mix with

Line Rochefort:

some sphagnum.

Mendel Skulski:

and rock wool, also used in home insulation,

Mendel Skulski:

takes a lot of energy to produce and isn't biodegradable.

Line Rochefort:

Piles of things that goes in the dump, do not decompose.

Adam Huggins:

Coconut coir, while it is a byproduct of palm

Adam Huggins:

plantations in India and Sri Lanka, has serious labor land

Adam Huggins:

use, water use and transportation issues to consider.

Line Rochefort:

Coconut fiber, it is a good growing substrate,

Line Rochefort:

but it's it's ecological footprint. You really have to

Line Rochefort:

look at your whole life cycle analysis,

Mendel Skulski:

Plus something we weren't even thinking about,

Mendel Skulski:

perlite, which is often used in soil mixes, is a mineral which

Mendel Skulski:

itself is extracted and processed in a very energy

Mendel Skulski:

intensive way.

Line Rochefort:

Make sure you don't do mixes with perlite,

Line Rochefort:

because the perlite, if ever it goes in the environment, it

Line Rochefort:

floats and then amphibian can choke on that.

Adam Huggins:

Line pointed us to the only peer-reviewed study

Adam Huggins:

that we could find specifically on our question, which performed

Adam Huggins:

a life cycle analysis of the environmental impacts of peat

Adam Huggins:

extracted in Latvia compared to imported rock wool and coconut

Adam Huggins:

coir. Latvia, incidentally, also exports about 85% of its peat,

Adam Huggins:

just like Canada. The researchers found that the full

Adam Huggins:

life cycle impact of coconut coir was seven times higher than

Adam Huggins:

that of peat. Rockwool, significantly better than coir,

Adam Huggins:

but still higher impact than peat.

Mendel Skulski:

To our knowledge, there is yet to be a

Mendel Skulski:

similar study on Canadian peat, but it's likely that the results

Mendel Skulski:

would be pretty similar. So it would appear that all of the

Mendel Skulski:

commercial alternatives to peat for horticultural use are at

Mendel Skulski:

best, flawed and at worst, worse.

Adam Huggins:

Still, does that mean that we should be using it?

Adam Huggins:

We asked some of the other folks that we spoke to. This is Drew again.

Drew Elves:

I bought peat for the first time in my life this

Drew Elves:

past spring, and it was because we were planting bog Labrador

Drew Elves:

Tea in this small pocket bog, this engineered bog in a Place

Drew Elves:

of Medicine at UVic. How did it feel? Really complicated.

Mendel Skulski:

And Richard is an interesting case, because in

Mendel Skulski:

addition to being a bog restorationist, he's also a

Mendel Skulski:

serious horticulturalist. Besides Burns Bog, his other big

Mendel Skulski:

project is studying the productivity of potatoes under

Mendel Skulski:

climate change. And he strikes a cautious note on the subject of peat.

Richard Hebda:

I think for certain kinds of horticultural

Richard Hebda:

uses, sphagnum peat is the best choice, and that would be things

Richard Hebda:

like rhododendrons, things that require acidic environments.

Adam Huggins:

As for the alternatives, he acknowledged

Adam Huggins:

that there are lifecycle issues, but he turned the question on

Adam Huggins:

its head a bit.

Richard Hebda:

What's renewable on a short time scale? Coconut

Richard Hebda:

husks, not sphagnum moss on peatlands.

Adam Huggins:

And while he recognized the work of Line and

Adam Huggins:

others in this area

Richard Hebda:

Dr Rochefort has shown, yes, you can recover

Richard Hebda:

small scale excavations of peat and bring back peat species, but

Richard Hebda:

you have very strong constraints on what you can do.

Adam Huggins:

He also argues that what is lost is more than

Adam Huggins:

just carbon dioxide.

Richard Hebda:

the consequences on large areas of feed land

Richard Hebda:

being harvested for peat takes away millennia of organic matter

Richard Hebda:

accumulation and disturbs that PEAT ecosystem. And on the basis

Richard Hebda:

of what we need to use peat as just as an organic matter in

Richard Hebda:

soil, I think it's not appropriate, not for large

Richard Hebda:

scale. This is where we need to be growing all kinds of organic

Richard Hebda:

matter and returning it to the ground and into our ecosystems

Adam Huggins:

Like compost, he says. Lots of compost. It's not

Adam Huggins:

a perfect peat substitute for some uses, but for others, it

Adam Huggins:

definitely gets the job done.

Mendel Skulski:

Yeah, I think we can all get behind that. So to

Mendel Skulski:

finally summarize the answer to our question, synthesized from

Mendel Skulski:

all of these conversations, in the style of Michael Pollan, use

Mendel Skulski:

peat, not too much, and whenever possible, use compost instead.

Adam Huggins:

And if you do use some peat, always keep in mind

Adam Huggins:

that what you're using is part of a super organism.

Richard Hebda:

The bog is a quintessential embodiment and

Richard Hebda:

example of what goes on all over the natural ecosystems of our

Richard Hebda:

Earth. So the hydrosphere, the water table, the atmosphere, the

Richard Hebda:

source of the rain and the oxygen that they need, the

Richard Hebda:

carbon dioxide that they need, the Geosphere, the physical

Richard Hebda:

substrate upon which the conditions are such that the

Richard Hebda:

sediments, the peat, can accumulate to support all the

Richard Hebda:

living creatures, the living creatures of the raised bog,

Richard Hebda:

which you can draw a circle around. It's a porous boundary,

Richard Hebda:

but there is a boundary, and you can see it and understand it as

Richard Hebda:

a physical structure living in equilibrium, a dynamic

Richard Hebda:

equilibrium, that it's shaping for itself with the hydrosphere,

Richard Hebda:

the atmosphere and the Geosphere. And now we face the

Richard Hebda:

greatest challenge of all — where the social sphere is now

Richard Hebda:

of a scale equal to the other four spheres in terms of shaping

Richard Hebda:

the land, but not in equilibrium. And what's the

Richard Hebda:

fundamental lesson from those other four spheres? They will

Richard Hebda:

bring us back into equilibrium. And we all have to take

Richard Hebda:

responsibility to speak for them. To listen to them and

Richard Hebda:

speak for them.

Mendel Skulski:

In this episode, you heard the voices of Robin

Mendel Skulski:

Annschild, Richard Hebda, Drew Elves, Markus Merkens, Sarah

Mendel Skulski:

Howie, and Line Rochefort. Music by yours truly, Thumbug, and

Mendel Skulski:

Sunfish Moon Light.

Mendel Skulski:

Special thanks to the Wetland Project, Brady Marks and Mark

Mendel Skulski:

Timmings for letting us use a clip from their incredible 24

Mendel Skulski:

hour recording of a marsh on ṮEḴTEḴSEN Saturna island, on

Mendel Skulski:

unceded W̱SÁNEĆ territory. And to the organizers of the 2024

Mendel Skulski:

SER North American Conference, Tony Ballard specifically, thanks.

Mendel Skulski:

If you like what we do here, you can help us do more. Check out

Mendel Skulski:

futureecologies.net/support to find out how. Thanks to all of

Mendel Skulski:

our patrons who keep us independent and ad free, we just

Mendel Skulski:

could not do it without you. This episode was produced by

Mendel Skulski:

Adam Huggins, and me, Mendel Skulski, with help from Eden

Mendel Skulski:

Zinchik. And as always, you can find a transcript and citations

Mendel Skulski:

on our website, futureecologies.net. That's it

Mendel Skulski:

for this one. We'll see you soon.

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